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Nancy Grace
Report Jacksons to Sue Doctor for Wrongful Death
Aired July 23, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. The mystery surrounding the sudden death of music icon Michael Jackson intensifies, questions mounting as to his sudden death, his half-a-billion-dollar empire, and more important, custody of the star`s three little children.
After murder charges leveled in the death of Jackson, his family publicly claiming he was murdered, bombshell tonight. Just hours after the DEA, LAPD and Houston police join together in a surprise raid on Jackson`s live-in doctor on homicide, we learn Jackson`s family set to crack this investigation wide open by filing a wrongful death claim. But who -- who - - is the target? Who do they say murdered Michael Jackson?
We now know exactly what police seized in the raid, in addition to computer hard drive images, scores of documents, charges aimed at Jackson`s live-in doctor, the family pointing the finger at the private doc as cops zero in on the doctor`s FedEx account. Right, his FedEx account. Was he FedExing the deadly drugs to Michael Jackson?
This after it`s revealed police seized evidence from Jackson`s own bedroom to make a case of homicide, a bedside oxygen tank, a bag of liquid from an IV pole, multiple tanks of oxygen from the bedroom and garage. And an in a stunning twist tonight, a security breach within the coroner`s office regarding Jackson`s death certificate. Has any other breach taken place regarding Jackson`s actual body?
And is grandmother Katherine Jackson being manipulated into having her own son, superstar Michael Jackson, declared incompetent at the time he wrote the will? Is she being played like a fiddle by father Joe Jackson? Two autopsies reveal fresh needle marks and a deadly drug, propofol, in Jackson`s system. All this as we uncover the secret location of his body, hidden miles away, protected by guards to stop would-be body snatchers.
A high-tech security system monitoring the home with a secret video of Jackson`s final moments gone, also a bag of drugs and IV poles, syringes, IV bags gone. Reports he wanted to be put under with an IV drip for days on end, lying there like a living corpse. And in direct contradiction to his last wishes, will his three children be handed over to someone else to raise?
As vultures circle his dead body including, corporate giant AEG trying to sell video of his last rehearsal for $50 million, the fate of his three children unknown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Did anybody witness what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it was just the doctor, sir. The doctor`s been the only one here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New twists in the Michael Jackson investigation. Police execute a surprise raid on the Houston clinic that was run by the doctor, Conrad Murray, who was with Jackson when he died.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His attorney says Los Angeles police and DEA agents copied files from a computer hard drive for forensic analysis. They also seized 21 documents during the raid of his Houston clinic.
JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FATHER: You don`t pick a doctor and stick him in the room there, and the doctor gives him something to make him rest and then he don`t wake up no more? Something is wrong there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Murray`s attorney says the search warrant seeking evidence of manslaughter came as a big surprise.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here we have Conrad Murray`s attorney admitting that there`s an ongoing manslaughter investigation. And we know that a Los Angeles judge has issued a search warrant. Now, judges can only issue a search warrant where there`s probable cause to believe a crime has been committed, in this case manslaughter, and there`s probable cause to believe that evidence of that crime is at Dr. Conrad Murray`s office.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is now clear there is a very real possibility that Michael Jackson`s death could be ruled a homicide. And the doctor with him when he died seems to be front and center in this ongoing investigation.
JOE JACKSON: There were just so many drugs. There`s just something else behind all of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, breaking news in the case of a beautiful young mom and her two sons found dead in their white-finished two-story home, strangled each in their own bedroom, manner of death ligature strangulation. A glove discarded along I-55 minutes from the home, allegedly spattered with red spray paint, a possible link to a chilling message scrawled across the walls of the murder scene. Mother of two Sheri Coleman found left naked, face down in her own bed. Husband/daddy former Marine and preacher`s son worked for worldwide televangelist Joyce Meyer Ministries, keeps a secret PO box unknown to wife and family.
Shocking details emerge. Not only were the home`s walls spray painted with ominous messages, little Gavin`s bed spray painted with profanity with the 9-year-old lying there in the bed, tonight we learn as his wife and children are laid to rest, as they are being lowered into the ground, husband/daddy Chris Coleman busily texting his girlfriend, his mistress. And tonight, the timeline revealed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement released more documents in the case against alleged triple murderer Chris Coleman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris, did you kill your wife?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris, did you do this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The same day he attended his wife, Sheri, and sons Garret and Gavin`s wake, police say Chris Coleman was text messaging his girlfriend that he loved her and missed her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris Coleman had an affair with a woman who went to high school with Sheri and was Sheri`s friend, and that he carried on that affair through the time up to the murders.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But the alleged text messaging didn`t stop there. The very next day, at his family`s funeral, Coleman allegedly texting his girlfriend he misses her and loved her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This affair had been going back to November `08, that he told her he would be divorced by June 14th of this year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Search warrant also revealing Coleman called his wife to check on her just one minute after a surveillance camera catches him leaving the house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had to make it brutal. (INAUDIBLE) like someone who didn`t love them did it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The alleged e-mail threat against Coleman also released, a threat police say ties Chris Coleman`s own computer and wireless card, reading in part, "Tell Joyce Meyer to stop preaching the expletive. If I know Joyce`s schedule, so then I know Chris`s schedule. They will die."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Also, the search for a little Washington Girl Scout who vanishes into thin air. Tonight, where is 11-year-old Lindsey Baum?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 10-year-old girl vanishes just blocks from her home. Now her mom says someone kidnapped her. Where is Lindsey Baum?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did she just vanish without a trace?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just know that she was coming back from her friend`s house and did not come home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every passing hour, new worries that the friendly girl who would talk with anybody is in serious trouble.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a relentless search to find her, a special plane equipped with heat-sensing cameras scouring the woods, divers searching under water, sniffer dogs covering the ground.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve activated a lot of search and rescue resources. We have between 50 and 60 searchers from counties throughout western Washington.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police haven`t found any evidence to explain her disappearance, and her dad is getting desperate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Baum`s in the National Guard. He`s with a unit in Tennessee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please bring my daughter home. I`m fixing to deploy to Iraq. I would love nothing more than to see my daughter before I have to go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. The mystery surrounding the sudden death of music superstar Michael Jackson intensifies.
But first, I want to thank you so much for all of your calls and your e-mails about my book, "11th Victim." It comes out on August 11. You are the very first to see it right now -- of course, after Lucy, pictured here, who grabbed it first. Let`s see that shot of Lucy, Liz. Yes. It`s about a prosecutor who tries her best to give up criminal law and start a new life, but when her friends are murdered one by one, the NYPD hones in on her.
It took me years to write this book. I started when I first left felony prosecution and I missed it so much. Since then, I wrote another book and published it, launched this show with my producer, Dane (ph), got married, got pregnant, gave birth, nearly died, didn`t, and finished the book. I hope you like it. I hope you like it. Part of my proceeds go to a charity, Wesley Glenn (ph), who takes care of the mentally handicapped that need a loving home. You can find this book on our Web site. I really hope you like it. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... in the investigation into Michael Jackson`s death...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s pumping. He`s pumping the chest, but he`s not responding to anything. So please...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Without warning, robbery homicide detectives from Los Angeles, Houston police and federal drug agents raided the office of Dr. Conrad Murray.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s video of the raid as it unfolded. They were armed with a search warrant. The question is, What were they looking for? What did they take?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: During their two-and-a-half-hour search, his lawyer says, investigators seized a forensic image of a computer hard drive and 21 documents.
JOE JACKSON: If a doctor`s there that couldn`t bring you back -- this doctor, he ran away. What do you think (INAUDIBLE) To me, that`s foul play.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His lawyer said investigators were authorized to, quote, "search for and seize items," including documents they believed constituted evidence of the offense of manslaughter. That`s the first time the word manslaughter has been used by anyone closely connected to the case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s looking more and more likely that criminal charges could be next.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re looking at this as a manslaughter. So we would have to assume that if a doctor, and in this case, if it were Conrad Murray, prescribed the drug, he prescribed it in a reckless or grossly reckless manner, knowing that it might cause the death of the patient.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meanwhile, the coroner paid a visit to Los Angeles nutritionist Cherilyn Lee, who says Jackson asked her for the powerful drug Diprivan.
CHERILYN LEE, JACKSON`S FORMER NURSE: I had a call last week, We have to issue you a subpoena. I said, I know. They really just wanted a hard copy of what I had already stated.
JOE JACKSON: I`m thinking that it`s foul play. Yes, that`s what I`m thinking.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Tom O`Neil, senior editor, "In Touch Weekly." We are taking your calls live. The Jacksons set to crack the case wide open by filing their own wrongful death claim. Who do they say murdered Michael Jackson?
TOM O`NEIL, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Well, Nancy, take one guess. It was the person that "The L.A. Times" said today they have plenty of powerful evidence administered this propofol to Michael, which is, of course, Dr. Conrad Murray. Now, what is significant about the family`s discussion now is that they plan to do this even if there are no criminal charges brought, they say, even if -- so in other words, we could end up with a situation a lot like the O.J. or the Robert Blake case, where there`s not criminal justice, the victims` families pursue civil justice.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Sheila, Ohio. Hi, Sheila.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, my question is, are we going to have a great, big courtroom battle here over this body and where to bury it or what? What`s going on?
GRACE: Oh, there will be a battle. Already, the neighbors are mounting a huge battle to stop Michael Jackson from being buried there at Neverland. Out to Natisha Lance. What`s the status?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, the status, Nancy, is still Michael Jackson has not been buried yet. The family is still in...
GRACE: What is it now, 26 or 27 days since he`s been dead?
LANCE: That`s right. The family is still feuding over this. Some want him at Neverland, other family members want him to be buried at Forest Lawn.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Agents from the DEA executing a search warrant at Dr. Conrad Murray`s Houston clinic. Then Murray`s lawyers released a bombshell, a statement confirming that a potential case of manslaughter is being built against the doctor, who was with Michael Jackson when he died. The statement reads, in part, "The search warrant authorized law enforcement to search for and seize items, including documents, they believed constituted evidence of the offense of manslaughter."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The LAPD told us today that despite this raid, this is still a death investigation and not a criminal investigation. Also, we checked with the DA`s office and were told the case has still not been submitted to them to consider charges.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to Murray`s lawyer, agents took a forensic image of a business computer hard drive and 21 documents during the search. Murray, who was being paid $150,000 a month to care for Jackson, has been at the center of what until now has been simply characterized as a death investigation. Murray`s lawyers say they were surprised by the search, but they say they`ve provided everything detectives have asked for.
In another statement released this week, Murray`s lawyers said, quote, "Based on Dr. Murray`s minute-by-minute and item-by-item description of Michael Jackson`s last days, he should not be a target of criminal charges. Dr. Murray was the last doctor standing when Michael Jackson died, and it seems all the fury is directed towards him."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The Jackson family set to crack the investigation wide open by filing their own wrongful death case. And we also learned that the focus of the surprise raid on the private doctor to Michael Jackson`s office was the search for propofol, AKA Diprivan, found only behind lock and key in operating rooms.
Out to Mary Margaret, senior news editor, Radaronline. What can you tell me about them focusing on his FedEx records?
MARY MARGARET, RADARONLINE.COM: Well, one of the issues with Michael Jackson is exactly how did he get these drugs. And what we do know is a lot of the drugs that he received were under aliases. And even though Dr. Murray was at his side pretty much around the clock, we do know that he did travel to his different practices from Las Vegas to Houston, and we think that one of the ways he received these drugs was to get them from outside sources, possibly even outside the country, some sources have told us, and have them FedExed to Michael or to himself.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. We are taking your calls live. Joining me from Seattle, high-profile lawyer Anne Bremner. Also with me, defense attorney and author of "Death`s Witness" out of New York, Paul Batista. Well, of course, if he had propofol -- Diprivan -- he wouldn`t be stashing it in his Houston office, Anne Bremner.
ANNE BREMNER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: No. And the thing about it is -- I wonder what the detail-by-detail says about the Diprivan. But the fact is -- I was hoping Susan Moss was on, Nancy, because I had a rhyme for her, which is, The DEA came today, they tried to take my stuff away, they searched and searched and searched again, oh, no, what`s that? It`s Diprivan. But she`s not on, so I`m doing this in honor of her.
GRACE: OK, Anne, thank you for the inappropriate tribute. But can we go back to the tracking of FedExes? Even though they could trace him sending FedExes back and forth to Michael Jackson, how could they prove at trial that vials of Diprivan were in there? And also, it seems as if Jackson was being shot up in the neck, and it would be virtually impossible for him to self-administer in the neck. So how are they going to prove this?
BREMNER: I mean, and the fact of this, is that they`re going to -- they`ve got witnesses there with the oxygen, EKG, everything else in the room, so that`s what they`re going to try and do. But his defense right now is exactly that, Nancy. How do they prove it? And by the way, he was a drug addict.
GRACE: Paul Batista?
PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, they can -- they`re going to have trouble proving the Diprivan connection because...
GRACE: Oh!
BATISTA: ... because -- you know what, Nancy? They`re going to be able to prove this case, in all likelihood, through the lengthy statements that Conrad Murray has already given to the -- to the...
GRACE: Yes, what a blabbermouth!
BATISTA: ... authorities.
GRACE: But wait a minute. You just it`s going to be difficult to prove he was FeExing Diprivan. We are talking about a police raid that went down in the last 24 hours on Jackson`s private doctor, his live-in doctor, essentially, at his Houston office. Now, remember, Jackson dies near Bel-Air.
Paul Batista, if they can find the Diprivan chain, if they can find somebody sending vials of Diprivan, which is used only in operating room settings, to Conrad Murray, we don`t have to know what he had in those FedExes!
BATISTA: Well, that`s right, Nancy. But obviously, the receipts for the FedEx won`t necessarily disclose -- in fact, they won`t disclose what the FedEx packages contained. Someone dealing in the black market...
GRACE: OK...
BATISTA: ... in drugs is not going to identify...
GRACE: So...
BATISTA: ... what`s in the bag.
GRACE: ... Ian Halperin, author of "Unmasked: The Final Years of Michael Jackson," if this theory is correct about Conrad Murray, what do you think he was sending Jackson in all of those FedExes?
IAN HALPERIN, AUTHOR, "UNMASKED" (via telephone): Well, Conrad Murray`s definitely guilty here, in my mind. The police won`t raid his office for anything (ph). My sources say he`s going downtown, Nancy. He`s going to be in striped pajamas. This case is getting distasteful, skanky and actually repelling. We need results soon, but the police, to all their credit, they`re taking their time. They`re making the doctors sweat right now. They`re perspiring, Nancy. There`s about 20 of them out there who are guilty of administering prescription drugs to Michael Jackson in an illegal setting. These drugs...
GRACE: And of course, as of right now, there have been no criminal charges against any of these doctors under probe.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dr. Murray prescribed certain things to Michael Jackson as a doctor. You know, he had medical conditions, medical complaints.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson demanded that doctor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He demanded.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said, Michael, we`re spending too much money. It doesn`t make sense. He says, You don`t understand. My body is the machine that fuels this whole business, OK? I need that kind of attention. And you know what? When Michael Jackson says that to you and there`s this much at stake, you don`t argue.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s nothing in his history, nothing that Dr. Murray knew that would lead him to believe that he would go into sudden cardiac arrest or respiratory failure. It`s still a mystery how he died, to Dr. Murray.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to special guest Cherilyn Lee, the former nurse to Michael Jackson, her office visited by the coroner`s officials yesterday. She willingly handed over her file on Jackson and cooperated fully. Ms. Lee, thank you for being with us. It is discovered -- we are discovering that no propofol was found in the doctor`s Houston office, but are you surprised by that?
CHERILYN LEE, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FORMER NURSE: No, I`m not.
GRACE: Why?
LEE: Well, because when I was with Michael from January to April, he wanted this Diprivan. He was emphatic about wanting to have it. And noticing his behavior, even -- behavior, even when it came to simple things, even nutritional supplements, he always wanted to have a large quantity and he wanted a large quantity at his house. He said, You know, the way the economy is going and things are happening, I want to make sure that I have everything at my disposal. So I`m not surprised they didn`t find it.
GRACE: According to sources, Jackson`s plastic surgeon said he received propofol every night through an IV drip and called it his "milk." Does that shock you in any way, Ms. Lee?
LEE: Yes, it does. Yes, it does.
GRACE: Very disturbing. Bethany Marshall, weigh in.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, I think a good question would be, what was causing all that excessive wakefulness? It was probably all the benzodiazepine abuse. That`s Klonopin, Xanax, Attivan. Those kinds of drugs, when they leave your system, they cause excessive wakefulness. And when you`re taking 30 pills a night, which according to some reports he was, that type of withdrawal can be deadly. So you don`t just cover it up with Diprivan. You treat it appropriately. The underlying medical condition was never addressed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIO GAP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: . the place of divorce. Don`t have to prove motive as a prosecutor, but, boy, does it help when you can explain to a jury from a common-sense perspective why the defendant committed this crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent with "In Session." Please tell me I`m wrong. Did he actually text-messaged his mistress, the one who worked at the strip bar as a hostess?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": That`s exactly what legal documents are saying now.
GRACE: While.
CASAREZ: Yes.
GRACE: While his wife and two little boys, ages 9 and 11, were being lowered into the ground?
CASAREZ: You know we`ve watched the video, Nancy, for a long time now. The video that is at the scene. It`s at the memorial, the cemetery. It`s where the defendant in this case, Chris Coleman, is with his parents. Legal documents are now saying that there was (sic) text messages on those days and also the day of the wake. That would be May 7th and 8th, text messages to his girlfriend, Tara Lintz, saying I miss you, I love you. That`s what cell phone records are showing.
GRACE: And explain to me how they were traced. Where was he at this time?
CASAREZ: Well, he was close -- he was in Illinois. He was close to where the murders happened. He was at home that morning. Obviously, he was at the cemetery. She was in Florida and it was traced because Ronald Coleman, Chris Coleman`s father, happened to tell authorities shortly after the murders, you know, Sheri Coleman had a very close friend. She lived in Florida. Her name is Tara Lintz.
GRACE: But didn`t they use an air card to trace his text messages?
CASAREZ: They used the air card an d they used the air card also, Nancy, to trace a very threatening letter. Remember early on we heard that Chris Coleman had gotten a very threatening letter in November of 2008 and we didn`t know what the threatening letter said.
Well, we now not only know what the threatening letter said, but authorities are saying it came to Chris Coleman from Chris Coleman`s computer through his card, which allows a wireless transmission.
GRACE: Bethany Marshall, Dr. Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers," we do know what the e-mail said. And as Jean Casarez is reporting, it came from his laptop. He might as well have taken out an ad on a billboard on 3rd Avenue and said, "I did it." Because the text of that message says -- it`s an e-mail to himself. "Tell your boss, Joyce Myers, to stop preaching the BS."
This is about Christ`s gospel or Chris` family will die. If I can`t get Joyce, I`ll get someone close to her. If I can`t get him, I will kill his wife and kids. I know their schedule. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Expletive, expletive. I will kill them in their sleep.
He even writes the modus operandi, Bethany.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Yes. Well, he`s trying to stage it as if some sicko broke into the house. But, obviously he was planning this for a long, long time.
Remember, socialopathy is a disorder of attachment, meaning they don`t attach to anyone around them. That`s why he can send the text messages while the funeral is going on.
GRACE: With me, special guest, Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. Weigh in, Marc.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, you know, there`s very little difference between Coleman and Scott Peterson, Michael Peterson, Mark Hacking, Michael Capuno out in Connecticut.
These are individuals who have no conscience, they`re very self- centered. They`ve got no criminal history and for some inexplicable reason, divorce is not an option for them. They feel that the best way for them to get on with their lives is to totally erase their family.
It`s a very disturbing trend in America these days.
GRACE: With me now, the attorney who filed a wrongful death suit on behalf of Sheri`s family, her first cousin and lawyer held in high esteem there in the Chicago area, Enrico Mirabelli.
Enrico, thank you for being with us. What is the family`s response as they now learn police have traced text messages to his Florida mistress, a.k.a., his wife`s high school friend, long-time friend, while they were being buried?
ENRICO MIRABELLI, COUSIN OF SHERI COLEMAN; ATTY. WHO FLED WRONGFUL DEATH LAWSUIT AGAINST ALLEGED KILLER: We think it says a lot about who Chris Coleman is. At this point, every revelation just -- it doesn`t shock us anymore. We`ve been stunned since the day we heard about the murders. And Chris being arrested did not come as a surprise to our family members.
GRACE: With me from Baltimore, Dr. Leigh Vinocur, emergency room physician from University of Maryland School of Medicine.
Doctor, thank you for being with us.
DR. LEIGH VINOCUR, M.D., EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN; UNIV. OF MARYLAND SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: My pleasure.
GRACE: Doctor, what would the wife and the little boys, ages 9 and 11, have suffered by death of ligature strangulation there in their own beds?
VINOCUR: Yes. Well, meaning that he used some sort of cord or rope or tie to put around their neck. Usually people become unconscious within 15 to 20 seconds because it occludes the blood supply going to the brain. But if you pull it tight enough, you can actually cut through some of the skin or collapse the trachea and the hyoid bone.
You can tell people struggle and it`s not comfortable because sometimes you can see scratch marks on their neck from their own hand trying to get out of it. Usually it is a struggle. But within 20 seconds, they`re usually unconscious and then, you know, no blood supply to the brain for a minute or two minutes. That`s probably it.
GRACE: So in 20 seconds you`re unconscious. I thought it took a couple of minutes.
VINOCUR: Usually. Well, it depends on the strength of the person. For a small child, it could be that quickly. I mean, it`s usually you see people strangling women and children because you need a big disparity between the two people. You don`t usually see men strangling each other except in the spy movies.
So one person usually has to be stronger for manual or ligature because you have to be able to hold it tight. But if you cut off the blood supply that`s completely going to the brain, people sort of faint. There can be a reflex where the heart rate slows down enough so.
GRACE: To Nicole Partin, joining us, investigative reporter on the story, I understand we`ve got more light shed on the timeline. Was he actually calling to do a security check on his wife and family just one minute after he leaves the home? That`s the story to police?
NICOLE PARTIN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER (via phone): Yes. Good evening, Nancy. Neighborhood surveillance actually are showing us him leaving his home at 5:43 in the morning and then calling inside the home at 5:44, 6:34, 6:42 and again at 6:53.
Now, we`ve got to remember he told authorities that he was calling to make sure his family was awake. But he`s doing this one minute after he leaves the home.
GRACE: To Tom Shamshak, former police chief, now private investigator, instructor at B.U.
Tom, thank you for being with us. We see him being traced on his air card, sending these e-mails to himself. Is there really any way, Tom, to beat electronic transmissions? How can you send them and it not be traced?
TOM SHAMSHAK, FMR. POLICE CHIEF, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, INSTRUCTOR AT BOSTON UNIV.: That`s where he made a mistake, a serious mistake. You cannot erase and interfere with these electronic footprints. And I`m surprised that somebody of his background -- he`s in security -- that he didn`t think about this.
But, again, maybe Dr. Bethany Marshall could talk about that kind of pathology with this individual. But, no, he cannot evade the footprint. It is there and it`s solid evidence.
GRACE: But how can it be beat by going to one of these Internet cafes or something?
SHAMSHAK: No, because they`re going to go back to the Internet provider. They`re going to go back to the address and it`s easily tracked right back.
GRACE: I want to thank you so much for all of your calls and your e- mails about my book, "Eleventh Victim." It comes out on August 11th. You were the very first to see it right now. Of course, after Lucy pictured here who grabbed it first, let`s see that shot of Lucy, Liz.
Yup. It`s about a prosecutor who tries her best to give up criminal law and start a new life, but when her friends are murdered one by one, the NYPD hones in on her.
It took me years to write this book. I started when I first left felony prosecution and I missed it so much. Since then I wrote another book and published it. Launched this show with my producer Dean. Got married. Got pregnant. Gave birth. Nearly died. Didn`t. And finished the book.
I hope you like it. Part of my proceeds go to a charity, Wesley Glenn, who takes care of the mentally handicapped that need a loving home. You can find this book on our Web site.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Court records show Chris Coleman texted love messages to his mistress during the time you saw him here on FOX 2, standing with his parents over the graves of his wife and kids. Police say Chris Coleman texted on the day of the wake and the day of the funeral, saying, I miss you and I love you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to the lines, Christine in Georgia. Hi, Christine.
CHRISTINE, CALLER FROM GEORGIA: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CHRISTINE: Well, I was wondering when were the -- the children last seen alive and well?
GRACE: Good question. Good question. To Enrico Mirabelli, first cousin of Sheri Coleman and an attorney there in the Chicago area. When were they last seen by someone outside of the family alive?
MIRABELLI: I can`t answer that question. I think it was -- had to be the day or the night before the murders. But I can`t say that specifically. I don`t think anyone knows that right now.
GRACE: OK. To Jean Casarez, what do we know?
CASAREZ: I don`t think anything in a legal document has said that, but when law enforcement arrived around 7:00 that morning and found the bodies, rigor mortis had set in. They were cold, they were hard. Sheri Coleman`s face was even purple. So that shows that they had been dead for a while.
GRACE: To Dr. Vinocur, how long would it take for rigor to set in?
VINOCUR: Well, hours it can take, but then it can also go away. It`s not the best indicator really.
GRACE: Right.
VINOCUR: You have to use a combination of things. Rigor mortis, lividity, like when the blood starts to pool to dependent areas and things like that.
GRACE: Right. The temperature.
VINOCUR: You need a combination.
GRACE: The temperature in the room.
VINOCUR: But usually -- right.
GRACE: The conditions.
VINOCUR: Some people, their jaw can get stiff within like 20 minutes to an hour.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Anne Bremner, high profile lawyer out of Seattle, and Paul Batista out of New York. What is your defense, Anne Bremner, for this guy who is texting his mistress as his wife and children are being buried?
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m hoping to wait for that defense, Nancy. I mean, the more it`s explained, the less any of us can understand it. It`s horrific. But there`s got to be something so wrong with this guy. We`ve got to get an evaluation to see.
Because he set this up in the most stupid way you could think of in terms of describing what would happen by the suspect. And it`s got to be an insanity or mental defense.
GRACE: Paul Batista?
PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "DEATH`S WITNESS": You know, Nancy, he`s insensitive, he`s a difficult guy to deal with. But texting messages, telling somebody else you love them, does not make for a murder conviction. These things are aberrational behaviors, but they`re not indicative of a murder.
GRACE: Right. I want to see you stand up in front of a jury and say that.
BATISTA: I`ll do my best.
GRACE: Bethany Marshall, weigh in.
MARSHALL: Well, he knew right from wrong because he planned this for a long, long time. He`s not mentally ill. He has -- probably has a personality disorder. Sociopathic personalities, they don`t have anxiety about getting into trouble, so they repeat their mistakes and they`re very transparent.
GRACE: Everyone, we are taking your calls live. But very quickly, I want to tell you about a little missing Girl Scout. Can you help us? Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A girl is missing and her father is supposed to head off to Iraq in the coming weeks.
SCOTT BAUM, FATHER OF MISSING 11-YR-OLD GIRL, LINDSEY BAUM: I`m Scott Baum. I`m Lindsey`s father. What I`m here today to do is to appeal to everybody out there watching. Please bring my daughter home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here`s what detectives have to work with. 10- year-old Lindsey Baum was last seen walking home from a friend`s house. She was supposed to walk about five blocks to get home. She never made it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So far, detectives haven`t figured it out. The FBI hasn`t figured it out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) this weekend stopping every car. They want anybody who saw maybe something that didn`t even look suspicious to them to contact law enforcement.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Despite a massive search effort in and around McCleary, there`s no sign of the girl anywhere.
MELISSA BAUM, MOTHER OF MISSING GIRL, LINDSEY BAUM: For my daughter, I want her to know that I love her more than anything in the world and that I`m not giving up on her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Following days of searches and interviews, investigators say the few leads they had have mostly dried up. Lindsey`s family is asking and hoping for help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If somebody does have her, I wish they would just drop her off somewhere where she can get to a pay phone and call 911 or call home so that we can come and get her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The family now desperate as the leads are drying up to find this little 11-year-old girl, Lindsey Baum. Her father set to be deployed back to Iraq with his little girl still missing.
Out to our producer on the story, Stacey Newman. Stacey, what is the latest?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, as of this week, Nancy, investigators have been re-canvassing outlying areas of this town, using search dogs, just trying to come up with any leads to find this little 11-year-old girl who simply just vanished into thin air.
GRACE: Take me back, Stacey. In a nutshell, how did she go missing?
NEWMAN: Here`s what happened. Little 11-year-old Lindsey Baum headed to a friend`s home for a usual play date. After a couple of hours there at the friend`s house, the friend`s parents told Lindsey, please return to your house because it was getting dark that night.
Lindsey walked home just a short six blocks. And then out of nowhere, at about 9:15, she simply seemed to just vanish into thin air. For about an hour, Lindsey`s mom, a couple of friends, searched desperately for the little girl. Her cell phone is still at home on the charger. Absolutely no sign of the little girl. Then she was reported missing.
GRACE: Joining me right now, a very special guest, Melissa Baum, Lindsey`s mother.
Miss Baum, thank you for being with us. Could you tell us.
M. BAUM (via phone): Thank you for having me.
GRACE: Yes, ma`am. What is the latest in the search for your little girl?
M. BAUM: Right now, they`re still just following up on tips. They still are getting tips in, from my understanding, and they`re following up. But at this point, there`s -- we don`t know of anything new. Nothing has come up new.
GRACE: Miss Baum, a neighbor saw her on her way home and can verify that she was, in fact, alive at that time on the way home. Do you know this neighbor? Are you sure they saw Lindsey Baum?
M. BAUM: I know of one.
GRACE: Yes.
M. BAUM: And, yes, she -- she`s actually someone I work with, so she does know Lindsey quite well.
GRACE: So about what time.
M. BAUM: And she has given me.
GRACE: . was that, Melissa? What time did the neighbor spot her?
M. BAUM: The neighbor spot her about 9:15.
GRACE: And out to Ian Cope, news director, KXRO. Ian, I was a little surprised just seeing somebody walking around at this young age, 11, but it was still daylight, wasn`t it?
IAN COPE, NEWS DIRECTOR, KXRO, COVERING STORY (via phone): Yes, 9:30 at -- in the evening out here is still daylight in late June and still relatively bright outside at the time she went missing.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, founder of KlaasKids Foundation and a crime victim after the death of his little girl, Polly. Marc, what do you say when police say the leads are drying up?
KLAAS: Well, you know, this is an extremely small community. It`s off the beaten track. I think you go from the point that she was last seen and then you start checking with every neighbor (INAUDIBLE) at that point and the girl`s home.
(VIDEO CORRUPTED)
GRACE: . killed Iraq. On second tour. Loved running, drawing, making people laugh. Studied at the Art Institute of Washington and wanted to be a helicopter medic for state police back home. Favorite secret hero, Superman. Leaves behind parent Lisa and Manuel, Sr., brothers Josh and Jacob.
Manuel Ruiz, American hero.
Thanks to our guest but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern and until then, good night, friend.
END
