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Nancy Grace
Source Says Doc Gave Jackson Deadly Diprivan
Aired July 27, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news. The investigation into the sudden death of music icon Michael Jackson is intensifying. As we await the coroner`s autopsy, expected to be released at any moment, a major development tonight. Sources are confirming Jackson`s private doctor, with the music superstar the day he collapses, administered the powerful drug authorities believe killed Jackson. Detectives are sifting through scores of documents and other evidence seized in two raids connected to Jackson`s private doctor.
And also tonight, have there been multiple breaches within the coroner`s office? First we learn of a security breach over Jackson`s death certificate. Now comes word investigators are looking into leaks regarding Jackson`s autopsy. This as the battle heats up over Jackson`s half-a- billion-dollar empire and custody of his three children. The Jackson family attorney confirms bio mom Debbie Rowe and grandmother Katherine are working behind closed doors to come to an agreement over Jackson`s three children, their final fate still unknown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a personal doctor here with him, sir.
911 OPERATOR: Oh, you have a doctor there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A source close to the Michael Jackson family and with knowledge of the investigation confirms to CNN that Jackson`s personal doctor, Dr. Conrad Murray, administered the powerful drug that authorities believe killed him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most important piece of evidence will be cause of death. The nature of this drug, as I understand it, is that it is far from an ordinary drug given to people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. Breaking news in the sudden death of music icon Michael Jackson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Did anybody witness what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, just the doctor, sir. The doctor`s been the only one here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A source close to the Jackson family says Jackson`s personal doctor administered a powerful drug that authorities believe killed him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the first time -- and this is through a source that`s close to the family, with knowledge of the investigation -- that Dr. Conrad Murray, Michael Jackson`s personal physician, the doctor that was with Jackson at the time of his death, has been connected to the drug propofol or Diprivan, which is an anesthetic that`s normally used in a hospital or a clinic scenario. The allegation here is, according to the source, that Murray administered this to Michael Jackson in his home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Before we take you to the breaking news in the Michael Jackson case, we do want to clarify something from our coverage on Friday night. During a discussion on the latest developments in the case, Tom O`Neil of "In Touch Weekly" said a woman by the name of Stacie Howe was the office manager for Dr. Arnold Klein, Jackson`s long-time dermatologist. In addition, he suggested this meant there was a connection between Dr. Klein and Dr. Conrad Murray. Now, that`s the private physician allegedly with Jackson when the music star collapsed.
To be clear, Stacie Howe has never worked for Dr. Klein, and there is no link between Dr. Klein and Dr. Murray. Murray`s office was recently searched as part of the investigation.
And now straight out to Ted Rowlands, CNN correspondent. Ted, you are breaking this news for the networks CNN and HLN. What are you able to confirm tonight?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, basically, Jean, we`re talking about the first connection between Dr. Conrad Murray and this powerful anesthetic, Diprivan, or propofol, it`s also called. Basically, this is a drug that`s used in clinics across the country and in hospitals to put patients down for usually minor surgical procedures. It`s actually a very common drug, but it`s not common outside of a hospital setting.
And what we`re reporting is that a source with knowledge of the investigation -- this is someone close to the family -- says that Dr. Conrad Murray did, indeed, administer this drug to Michael Jackson within 24 hours of his death. That`s what we`re reporting tonight.
CASAREZ: All right, Ted, is your source defining for you the word "administered"? Because I think that`s a very important word here.
ROWLANDS: No. And it is very important. And other things that will be very important -- moving on here -- is, will this, indeed, be the cause of Michael Jackson`s death in the eyes of the coroner? There`s still a long way to go before you would even get to that point.
But the significance here is that this is something that -- and you`ve heard many people chime in on this over the past few weeks -- that would never really have any use outside of that setting. If it was used in any way and it did, if it did, contribute to Jackson`s death, then there could be some potential legal issues for Dr. Murray in that it may have, in the prosecutor`s mind, not been properly used in its manner and there could be some -- potentially, potentially -- charges down the line. But clearly, we`re a long way away from that. But we have now done is connected Murray with this drug.
CASAREZ: And that is the first time, I believe, through your sources, that we have connected Dr. Murray and Michael Jackson with, allegedly, that powerful drug. Ted, do your sources say that we can expect any more searches executed with Dr. Murray`s storage units or office facilities?
ROWLANDS: Yes. In fact, that is something that you should expect in the coming days, most likely as a part of this investigation. And you have to step back, as well, here, that you`re talking about not only local police here but also the Drug Enforcement Agency, the DEA. And they are going through and meticulously, like we saw in the Anna Nicole Smith case, going back and looking at not only Dr. Murray but all of the other doctors and drugs that Jackson encountered in the months, weeks, days, leading up to his death.
And when you`re talking about Murray, they`re going in with these search warrants, looking for very specific things, specific records. And you look at the Houston search warrant which was served. They took out just a finite amount of documentation and a hard drive, and that was it. So because of confidentiality issues, these are very meticulous searches. Most likely, you`ll see more of them, according to our sources.
CASAREZ: Do we know where Dr. Murray is right now?
ROWLANDS: We don`t. And his lawyer, through their representative, is not saying where he is, and they are not commenting, either, on this specific report today. What they are saying is they`re not going to comment at all on rumor, innuendo or sourced reporting, saying they`re going to wait until this coroner report comes out. We expect that possibly by the end of this week or in the weeks to come.
They may also be taking their time. We have -- initially, we had indications that the report was coming out this week. However, we haven`t had a lot of stability in terms of that reporting. In fact, now we`re hearing it may be delayed a bit.
CASAREZ: All right. Take us back to the very beginning, that 911 call. We can confirm Dr. Conrad Murray was in the home that day, correct?
ROWLANDS: Absolutely. And you can hear his voice in the background. At one point, when the caller is talking to the dispatcher and the dispatcher says, Well, come on, man, I`m going to help you give CPR, basically, and the caller says, Oh, we have a doctor here, a personal physician. And then you can hear Murray in the background responding to a question through the dispatcher.
And it`s at that point, too, we also learn that Murray is giving CPR on the bed, rather than on the floor, which would be the normal procedure because of the hard surface. Now, Murray, through his lawyer, said that they did that using a hand underneath and that he was -- he`s a licensed doctor, he knew what he was doing, and he was conducting the CPR in a proper manner.
CASAREZ: And he is a cardiologist, not an anesthesiologist, yes?
ROWLANDS: That is correct. Yes.
CASAREZ: All right. Well, we will be right back with more on this, more on the Michael Jackson case, the investigation. Breaking news tonight that Dr. Conrad Murray, CNN sources -- Ted Rowlands has confirmed that Dr. Murray administered the powerful drug that authorities believed at this point may have caused (SIC) Michael Jackson.
Let us go out to a caller. Karen in Maryland. Good evening, Karen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you?
CASAREZ: I`m fine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you very much for taking my call. My question is, if he`s a cardiologist and he administered Diprivan, which is supposedly only administered by anesthesiologists, wouldn`t that be more than manslaughter charges, you know, rather than -- shouldn`t it be murder in the second degree?
Not only that, but by his own admission, he said when he found Michael Jackson the day of his death, he said he was still warm and he still had a pulse, and yet he performed CPR immediately on him. And from everything I know about CPR and have learned about CPR, the last thing you do is give chest compressions to someone who has a pulse because that could actually stop the person`s heart from beating.
CASAREZ: All right. A lot of questions. Let`s go out to the lawyers. From Atlanta, Holly Hughes, former prosecutor with us tonight, Randy Kessler, defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, and Doug Burns, defense attorney out of New York.
Holly Hughes, first of all, having a cardiologist allegedly administer a powerful drug such as Diprivan, rather than an anesthesiologist -- does that, to you as a prosecutor, raise red flags?
HOLLY HUGHES, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Absolutely. What you`re talking about here is a possible murder 2 charge because you`re talking about depraved indifference to human life. You knowingly did something that caused a greater risk of harm to your patient. So I absolutely would look into that. That gives me great concern and great pause. I think you can up the charges here, Jean.
CASAREZ: To Doug Burns, defense attorney out of New York. When we hear the word "administer"...
DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
CASAREZ: ... that the doctor administered a powerful drug, what does that, as a buzzword, "administer," say to you?
BURNS: No, I heard you flag that earlier, Jean, and you`re right. I mean, I`m not sure what it means. And I`m not so sure why this report is being so extensively discussed when we don`t have the final chemical or toxicological reports back yet. I mean, what`s everybody going to say if comes back that he didn`t die from that drug? So I really think that you just have to keep your counsel and wait it out.
CASAREZ: That`s right. And to Randy Kessler, defense attorney out of Atlanta. Just because this drug was administered, we don`t have proof of cause of death, and isn`t that needed for criminal charges?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Sure. You have to prove that`s why he died. You also need to know what the doctor`s intent -- intent, mens rea. You know, what did the doctor intend to do? But certainly, he may have died of something else. And until we know that, we shouldn`t jump to conclusions.
CASAREZ: All right. But it is confirmed tonight, it is breaking news, CNN`s Ted Rowlands has confirmed that Dr. Conrad Murray administered the powerful drug that authorities believe killed Michael Jackson. What that does do is it links a doctor that is a suspect in this case -- he is a person of interest, search warrants have been executed at his home and office -- along with the powerful drug and Michael Jackson.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know that Michael`s been doing drugs intravenously for what, more than a decade.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... claims from some of Michael Jackson`s former employees about his alleged drug use.
NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": Jackson reportedly ingesting up to 10,000 pills in just six months, including a reported 40 Xanax a night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard about Demerol. I heard about all the drugs being bandied about now. So none of this is new and none of this is surprising.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A source involved in the investigation said the singer`s arms were riddled with marks and veins in both arms had collapsed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a real tip-off when somebody is using the veins in their neck because those are some of the last resort veins that addicts shoot up in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson did struggle with sleep. He told everyone. I mean, the nurse who talked to him four days -- Cherilyn Lee, a nurse spoke to him four days before he died, and he was begging her to supply him with propofol or Diprivan.
CHERILYN LEE, JACKSON`S FORMER NURSE: He wanted this Diprivan. He was emphatic about wanting to have it. He always wanted to have a large quantity, and he wanted a large quantity at his house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Debbie.
DEBBIE ROWE, MICHAEL JACKSON`S EX-WIFE: Hi. How are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m fine. How are you?
ROWE: Good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want to know what you think of Dr. Klein being under investigation for his prescription practices.
ROWE: That`s up to Dr. Klein and the government, I guess.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you think of him use a gynecologist`s office to preform a minor...
ROWE: I don`t know (INAUDIBLE) anything about it. I really don`t. I haven`t worked for Dr. Klein for 12 years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know what propofol is?
ROWE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is it?
ROWE: It`s a medication that`s used in anesthesia.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you inject Michael with? What did you inject Michael with?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ll be back in just a few minutes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Now, that was video from TMZ of Debbie Rowe arriving at the office of her former boss, Dr. Arnold Klein. And CNN is confirming tonight that a source close to the Michael Jackson family and with knowledge of the investigation is saying that Dr. Conrad Murray did, in fact, administer the powerful drug that authorities believe killed Michael Jackson.
Now, Dr. Conrad Murray has not been labeled a suspect, even a person of interest, but he has been at the center of two search warrants executed last week into an investigation into the crime of manslaughter, as it says on the search warrants.
Out to Cherilyn Lee, a very special guest joining us tonight, the former nurse to Michael Jackson. First of all, Ms. Lee, thank you so much for joining us. What is your reaction to the news tonight?.
LEE: Well, it`s very shocking. And I`m still very torn about hearing what`s happening, even at this point in time.
CASAREZ: I`m sure, because you, in a sense, have been close to it. You knew Michael Jackson. Has law enforcement contacted you at all since you voluntarily handed over reports from your office?
LEE: Yes.
CASAREZ: And when was...
LEE: Oh, since I volunteered to hand over reports, no, I haven`t spoken to law enforcement. Just one time.
CASAREZ: All right. Talk to us about how Michael Jackson begged to you for this powerful drug of Diprivan.
LEE: It was April of 2009 that he asked me for the drug or the medication. And he said, I need to have this medication because it will help me sleep. He went in detail to say, Once one drop hits my vein with the IV, he said, I go to sleep right away. I`m knocked out and I`m asleep.
And I tried to tell him -- after I found out what it was, I tried to explain to him -- even I went to a second level of going to my office, picking up the Physician Desk Reference and going in detail, telling him about this medication and it was something he was not to use at home. And I read over a lot of the symptoms and said, Michael, I`m very concerned about you taking this. And not just concerned, I read off a multitude of symptoms, and the one being death.
And you know, I don`t even know why I even came out and said that because I said, Michael, you`re so concerned and wanting to go to sleep, and I understand that, and -- but the problem is, is waking up from this the next day. And I just had great concerns and I explained it to him. But he tried to reassure me, to let me know that he had -- you know, basically, had had it before, and he had an experience where he was monitored. He said, I`m going to be fine. He could see I was really upset about this, but he was trying to reassure me that, I will be fine because I`m going to be monitored.
CASAREZ: To Doug Burns, defense attorney. What role does it play that Michael Jackson asked for this, begged for this, wanted this, said, I`m going to be fine? Does it play a role at all?
BURNS: Well, yes, that`s the key formulation, Jean. In other words, option A is that Michael Jackson, utilizing -- and this is sort of hypothetical, but probably true to the case -- utilizing many, many different runners, many pharmacy, many enablers, many suppliers, simply running amok, and one individual doctor couldn`t know that.
Option B is that this particular physician participated to an extent way outside the normal course of medical practice and should be held responsible. Now, the truth, of course, is between A and B, and that`s why it`s a complicated case.
CASAREZ: That`s right. Dr. Bill Holubek, medical toxicologist, emergency medicine physician, when it is being confirmed by CNN that, allegedly, the doctor administered a powerful drug, how do you define administering a powerful drug such as Diprivan?
DR. BILL HOLUBEK, MEDICAL TOXICOLOGIST, EMERGENCY MEDICINE: Well, I think they`re going to have to define it themselves. I mean, I don`t know what to make of this Diprivan. It`s not used for sleep. People use this and their sedated -- they`re under general anesthesia. So I -- I`m very confused. I don`t know -- you can`t administer it to yourself. Someone has to give it to you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE: And I said, Michael, if you take that medicine, you might not wake up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not investigating the doctors, we`re investigating Mr. Michael Jackson`s death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve got doctors who allegedly overprescribed or abused or used aliases. That`s really what they`re looking at here. The LAPD police chief said that they are looking for the coroner`s report to corroborate the cause of death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a death investigation. Until they can establish perhaps motive and intent, it`s not going to be a homicide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sooner or later, we will find out -- and I think it`s going to be sooner more than later -- exactly what happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace tonight. This morning, the attorney for Katherine Jackson, Londell McMillan, appeared on NBC`s "Today" show with Matt Lauer. He spoke. He said some very interesting things. Let`s listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LONDELL MCMILLAN, ATTORNEY FOR KATHERINE JACKSON: She wasn`t just some passive, loving mom. She was someone that was regularly in touch with Michael. Michael trusted her dearly. She was supportive. And she was the trustee. So we believe that she is the most trusted person in the entire world, notwithstanding what happened in 2002, and she`s the most fit from a legal standpoint to serve as a guardian of the estate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: And that was Katherine Jackson`s lawyer on NBC`s "Today" show.
Let`s go out to Jen Heger, legal editor of Radaronline.com. Jen, a lot to ask you, but the will, Michael Jackson`s will, delineated who he wanted as the co-executors of his estate. It was not Katherine Jackson. What are your thoughts on this?
JEN HEGER, RADARONLINE.COM: Exactly. His will specifically stated that he wanted John Branca and John McClain, two trusted, long-time business advisers and friends of over 30 years, to be the executors of the estate. Radaronline.com reported this afternoon that Mr. Branca and Mr. McClain had been -- sources tell me that they`ve been in talks with the other side to give allowances to the family. And they said, What -- how much money do you guys want? How much money does Katherine Jackson need for the children? And they were given a number, and it was mutually agreed upon.
Furthermore, there has been absolutely no evidence brought forward by Mr. McMillan or anyone on Katherine Jackson`s front that he was involved with any of his business affairs.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Agents from the DEA executing a search warrant at Dr. Conrad Murray`s Houston clinic. Then, Murray`s lawyers released a bombshell. A statement confirming that a potential case of manslaughter is being built against the doctor who was with Michael Jackson when he died.
The statement reads, in part, "The search warrant authorized law enforcement to search for and seize items, including documents, they believed constituted evidence of the offense of manslaughter."
According to Murray`s lawyer, agents took a forensic image of a business computer hard drive and 21 documents during the search.
Murray, who is being paid $150,000 a month to care for Jackson, has been at the center of what, until now, has been simply characterized as a death investigation. Murray`s lawyers say they were surprised by the search. But, they say they`ve provided everything detectives have asked for.
Murray`s lawyer said, quote, "Based on Dr. Murray`s minute by minute and item by item description of Michael Jackson`s last days, he should not be a target of criminal charges." Dr. Murray was the last doctor standing when Michael Jackson died. And it seems all the fury is directed towards him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network "In Session" in for Nancy Grace tonight. Let`s go straight out to Ted Rowlands live in Los Angeles.
Ted, you are breaking this news for the CNN network and HLN. For the first time, Dr. Conrad Murray is being linked to Michael Jackson and to the death of Michael Jackson. Explain.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, not necessarily the death of Michael Jackson, Jean. That will have to come out after the coroner comes out with the final cause of death. But what we`re saying is that according to a source close to the family with knowledge of the investigation, that Dr. Conrad Murray administered this Diprivan or propofol to Jackson.
This is a drug that is normally only used in a hospital or clinical setting. He, apparently, according to this source, administered it to Michael Jackson within 24 hours of Jackson`s death.
At the very least, it raises some serious eyebrows, especially in the medical community where doctors have said there will be no feasible reason why you would administer this drug. It is completely safe, this drug, in a hospital setting. But according to physicians, this is something where you need completely with oxygen on hand and somebody on had administering, checking vitals at all times.
It`s just not.
(AUDIO CORRUPTED)
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They`re a family and they`re a unit, and that`s what they need to be.
CASAREZ: All right. Randy Kessler, out of Atlanta. Thank you.
To tonight`s safety tip. With millions of students set to return to college campuses this fall, here are tips to protect yourself.
When leaving your dorm or apartment, make sure your doors and windows are locked. Travel with another person, especially after dark, and walk in well-lit areas. Carry pepper spray or personal alarm on your key chain. Check under and around your car before getting inside.
Be aware of your surroundings and anything that appears suspicion. Now if in danger, get to the nearest building or residence and yell for help.
For more information. Go to collegesafe.com.
ANNOUNCER: "Nancy Safety Tips" brought to you by.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s not breathing, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK, and he`s not conscious either?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, he`s not conscious, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
JERMAINE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S BROTHER: Leave him alone. Stop the crazy names that they call him because what more do you have to do to make people realize he`s a human being?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Did anybody witness what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, just the doctor, sir. The doctor`s been the only one here.
JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FATHER: I have a lot of concern.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What are your concerns about?
JOE JACKSON: I can`t get into that. But I don`t like what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s nothing in his history, nothing that Dr. Murray knew that would lead him to believe that he would go into sudden cardiac arrest or a respiratory failure.
JERMAINE JACKSON: His daughter said it all. My daddy. He was a human being. He was a person. He was a father. He was an uncle. He was a brother. He was a son. And they need to leave him alone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network "In Session" in for Nancy Grace tonight.
This is very big news coming out of California tonight in regard to the death of Michael Jackson.
Let`s go straight out to Ted Rowlands, CNN correspondent.
Ted, for people just joining us, tell us what you have confirmed.
ROWLANDS: Well, Jean, what we were reporting is that according to a source close to the Jackson family, with knowledge of the ongoing investigation into Michael Jackson`s death, Dr. Conrad Murray administered propofol or Diprivan to Jackson within 24 hours of his death.
And that is the drug that is normally used only in a hospital or a clinical setting. This source says that authorities believe that Jackson`s doctors, Dr. Murray, administered this drug to Jackson in Jackson`s home prior to his death.
CASAREZ: All right.
ROWLANDS: Now Dr. Murray, through his lawyers, he is there. Not commenting specifically about this. But they have said in the past and they referred to it again today, anything that Murray prescribed or administered should not have killed Michael Jackson, is what their stance is.
And they say they are still completely complying with all of the demands of authorities in terms of any documentation or interviews. They have another one apparently still planned. A third interview with PD detectives here in L.A. planned.
CASAREZ: All right. To the Dr. Bill Holubek, medical toxicologist. If Michael Jackson ingested this powerful drug 24 hours before he died, would it show up in a toxicology report?
DR. BILL HOLUBEK, M.D., MEDICAL TOXICOLOGIST, EMERGENCY MEDICINE PHYSICIAN: Yes, I mean, that`s a good question. I mean, Diprivan or propofol, when you give it intravenously, it starts acting within seconds. And it only lasts minutes. So when this drug -- if it was given to him within 24 hours, if it`s given in one injection, it -- it started to work in a couple of seconds. And in a couple of minutes, it`s gone and he should be awake.
The only time that you really are in danger, obviously, is if you stop breathing, or if you`re on a continuous drip. You know, you don`t have to be an anesthesiologist to use this. I know, you know, as long as you have training in conscious or moderate sedation, you can use this, but as was stated before, you have to be monitored.
You have to be -- oxygen has to be ready. You have to be prepared for this person to stop breathing.
CASAREZ: All right. To Lynn out in Michigan. Hi, Lynn, thanks for waiting.
LYNN, CALLER FROM MICHIGAN: Oh, that`s OK. Thank you for taking my call.
First, I would like to applaud Miss Lee for having the inner strength to refuse Michael these medications. And, second, I was wondering whether the passport from the so-called doctors/drug dealers/enablers have been confiscated?
Because right now it seems they do not know where Dr. Murray is or they`re not saying. And I`m wondering whether, you know, a flight risk?
CASAREZ: Well, first of all, Dr. Murray has not been charged. He`s not even been labeled a suspect so he is free to go anywhere he wants to go, and that including is where a passport will take him.
To Cherilyn Lee, though. Some very kind words just said to you. How difficult was it for you to deny Michael Jackson Diprivan?
CHERILYN LEE, FMR. NURSE TO MICHAEL JACKSON, SAYS HE PLEADED FOR DANGEROUS DRUG: It was very easy to deny because I know it was something that was life threatening and should not been given at home.
CASAREZ: Sure.
LEE: So it was very easy to deny him not having this.
CASAREZ: Was it something that stayed on your mind afterwards? You just couldn`t forget it? Because an unusual request.
LEE: An unusual request. But I thought that since I went to great length to show him in the PDR what would be the consequence if he were to have this at home and not in a hospital setting, I really thought that he would not have done this.
CASAREZ: All right. To.
LEE: Or someone else would not have said "I will do this" for him.
CASAREZ: Right. Sure. To Mark Hillman, clinical psychotherapist, author "My Therapist is Making Me Nuts." What is the mind-set of someone that is begging for, asking, anyone they can find for this powerful drug?
MARK HILLMAN, CLINICAL PSYCHOTHERAPIST, AUTHOR OF "MY THERAPIST IS MAKING ME NUTS": Well, you said it, the beginning of the show that he was taking 40 Xanax a night. So clearly to me, that would indicate someone who`s addicted to pain killers.
There are three quick points I`d like to make, Jean. One, hope that children are getting some sort of grief counseling. Two, Michael made a very rational statement in terms of assigning two people outside the family. As we all know, family and money is like oil and water.
And until such time, as Dan Burns said earlier in the show, that we have the facts of the toxicology reports, we need to be very careful that we don`t emotionally convict Dr. Murray of any wrongdoing.
Also, the issue with the other docs is what happened to the Hippocratic Oath that says, "Do no harm" when he`s coming under aliases and getting bucketfuls of drugs?
CASAREZ: Firpo Carr, Jackson family friend. Your thoughts on all of this tonight?
FIRPO CARR, JACKSON FAMILY FRIEND, FORMER JACKSON FAMILY SPOKESPERSON: Well, first of all, I would like to ask Cherilyn Lee, Miss Lee, a question, and that is, if she`s a nutritionist, why in the world would Michael Jackson call her to administer Diprivan?
CASAREZ: Cherilyn Lee?
CARR: Also -- also, well, let me ask another question, too. Another thing. Michael Jackson -- she said Michael Jackson begged her. Michael Jackson didn`t beg anyone for anything. And I find that very difficult to believe. So I`d love to hear her answers to those questions first. I have a couple of more.
CASAREZ: Miss Lee, very quickly, your response.
LEE: Yes. My -- I`m also a nurse practitioner and a physician assistant. And also a -- Mr. Jackson felt very comfortable with me. He was begging for -- and I won`t say begging. He wanted sleep. He had insomnia. And he was asking for something to help him to sleep.
CASAREZ: All right. Thank you so much, everyone.
Tonight, we are on the search for Nancy Grace`s number one fan. Please, send us an e-mail or iReport telling us why you search for Nancy`s number one fan.
The best submissions will air on the show and you could win an autographed copy of Nancy`s new novel, "The Eleventh Victim". Plus a chance to win a trip to New York to meet Nancy yourself.
Get your video cameras, your e-mails ready and go to CNN.com/Nancygrace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: I want to thank you for all of your calls and e-mails about my book, "Eleventh Victim." It comes out on August 11. You were the very first to see it right now. Of course after Lucy, pictured here, who grabbed it first.
It`s about a prosecutor who tries her best to give up criminal law and start a new life. But when her friends are murdered, one by one, the NYPD hones in on her.
It took me years to write this book. I started when I first left felony prosecution. And I missed it so much. Since then I wrote another book and published it. Launched this show with my producer, Dean. Got married. Got pregnant. Gave birth. Nearly died. Didn`t. And finished the book.
I hope you like it. Part of my proceeds go to a charity, Wesley Glenn, who takes care of the mentally handicapped that need a love home. You can find this book on our Web site.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CASAREZ: And let`s go straight out to Firpo Carr, Jackson family friend, former family spokesperson. Firpo, I want you to listen to Cherilyn Lee as she explains to us what Michael Jackson originally said to you in regard to the drug he wanted and your reaction.
Cherilyn? Do we have.
LEE: Yes.
CASAREZ: Yes, what did Michael Jackson originally say to you when he approached you on this?
LEE: Well, what he said was, he really wanted to get a good night`s sleep. And that he had gone through everything in the past, really didn`t help him to sleep. And he wanted a -- the Diprivan. He was aware with an IV of Diprivan he would be able to sleep and have a good night`s sleep.
CARR: OK.
CASAREZ: All right. To Firpo Carr?
CARR: Are you an operating room nurse?
LEE: No, I am not.
CARR: OK. How would you know about Diprivan?
LEE: I did not know about Diprivan.
CARR: I see, OK. So you had to research.
LEE: I didn`t know about Diprivan.
CARR: OK. Here`s.
LEE: I had to research it, yes.
CARR: Michael Jackson fired you, did he not, in April?
LEE: No, he did not.
CARR: I see. Have you ever been fired before from the job?
LEE: No, and I also worked for the federal prison.
CASAREZ: All right.
CARR: Is that right? OK.
(CROSSTALK)
CASAREZ: Cherilyn Lee, I think bottom line, Cherilyn Lee, you told him no. You told Mike Jackson no, you would not give him the drug. That I think is the bottom line.
Out to Sheryl McCollum, a crime analyst and director of Cold Case Squad, Pine Lake P.D., what is the investigation doing right now in regards to awful this?
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST, DIR. OF COLD CASE SQUAD AT PINE LAKE P.D.: Jean, it`s expanding. It`s expanding daily. And what the police are going to do is they`re going to look at these drugs. They`re going to look at prescriptions. They`re going to look at aliases. They`re going to look at doctors and they`re going to keep linking this case together until all the pieces, you know, fit.
And they`re going to weigh, obviously, on the results from the coroner`s office and they`re going to see how again, this expands over time. We`re nowhere near done here.
CASAREZ: All right. And tonight, let us stop to remember Army Sergeant Matthew Apuan, 27 years old from Las Cruses, New Mexico. On a second tour in Iraq, he was awarded the Army Commendation Medal. He loved U.S. history, skateboarding, soccer, fine wines, and putting Vietnamese hot sauce on many of his favorite foods.
He dreamed of finishing studies at New Mexico State University for a degree in hotel management. He leaves his parents, Charles and Sandra, sister Amy, and fiancee Nicole.
Matthew Apuan, an American hero.
Thank you to all of our guests and for you at home for being with us. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, everybody.
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