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American Morning

Investigations Into the Cause of Michael Jackson's Death Continue; Michael Vick is Reinstated into the NFL; Obama Administration meets with Chinese Delegates to Discuss Economic Matters; New Questions Arise Regarding Gates Arrest

Aired July 28, 2009 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: That brings us now to the top of the hour. Thanks for joining us on the Most News in the Morning, on this Tuesday.

I'm John Roberts.

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kiran Chetry. Glad you're with us. We have a lot going on this morning. The stories we're breaking down for you in the next 15 minutes.

There are some new developments this morning in the Michael Jackson case, all coming from a source close to the investigation that tells CNN the doctor who was with Jackson the day he died gave him that powerful drug Propofol. Our Ted Rowlands has the latest on the upcoming coroner's report.

ROBERTS: The 911 caller that phoned Cambridge police never mention two black men when describing a possible break in at the home of Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. New questions surrounding the controversy this morning, plus you'll hear the tapes for yourself just ahead.

CHETRY: And behind closed doors, there's some tough talk at the White House, the Obama administration hosting officials from China, mostly speaking about the economy. Our Christine Romans on America's soaring deficit, our addiction to things made in China, and how it could affect your bottom line.

ROBERTS: And explosive new development this morning in the Michael Jackson death investigation, and it could mean trouble for the doctor who was with Jackson when he took his last breath.

According to a source close to the investigation, Dr. Conrad Murray put Jackson to sleep with the powerful anesthetic Propofol that experts say should never be used in someone's home. Our Ted Rowlands joins us now with the very latest.

ROWLANDS: John, Kiran, this is significant, because for the first time this connects Dr. Conrad Murray, Jackson's personal physician, with this drug, which never would be used typically outside of a hospital or a clinical setting.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A source with knowledge of the investigation into Michael Jackson's death tells CNN that Dr. Conrad Murray gave Jackson the powerful drug Propofol within 24 hours of his death. Propofol, also known as Diprivan, is normally only used in a hospital setting for sedating surgical patients.

DR. DREW PINSKY, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: For a patient to be administered Diprivan in their home or in the outside world to me is outrageous, particularly a patient who may have had, as we all believe, an opiate addiction. That is out of the question.

ROWLANDS: Investigators, including agents with the DEA, served a search warrant at Dr. Murray's Houston clinic last week. The warrant read that investigators were seeking evidence of possible, quote, "manslaughter."

Murray is not a suspect in the case, but legal experts say they may change if Propofol is found in Jackson's system.

MARK GERAGOS, DEFENSE LAWYER: Having Propofol in the system or Diprivan, as it's called, in the system, depending on what the levels are, is a -- is not a positive indicator for any doctor that's affiliated with it.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALSYT: Propofol, however, is not an illegal drug. It's not a controlled substance, so the fact that he was giving it to him might not have been medically indicated, but there's nothing, per se, wrong with it.

ROWLANDS: Murray's lawyer released a statement in response to our report, saying in part, "Everyone needs to take a break and wait for these long delayed toxicology results. I have no doubt they want to make a case. For goodness sakes, it's Michael Jackson."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROWLANDS: And that coroner's reports still isn't complete. We are expecting to be made public as early as the end of this week -- John, Kiran?

CHETRY: Ted Rowlands for us. Thank you.

Also, for more details now on the powerful drug that investigators believe may have killed Michael Jackson, a doctor's perspective, we bring in our own Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN's chief medical correspondent. He joins us from Atlanta now. Thanks so much.

You told us a little bit about this drug before, that they call it "milk of amnesia," that it's used oftentimes for procedures in operating rooms. How can this drug kill you?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's called milk of amnesia because it has that sort of milky, white substance, and it causes memory loss in the short term. It's not a sleeping medication, and that's something that people have asked about, talked about quite a bit. It's an anesthetic, a very powerful sedative, and it is used in operating rooms.

As Drew Pinsky just mentioned, I have never heard about it being used outside of the hospital settings either.

It shuts down really the whole brain and puts you into a sort of medically induced coma that has an effect on the brain that has effect on the heart and lungs too, possibly causing either the heart unable to regulate itself or causing an arrest of the heart, which is something that we heard a lot about in the beginning of this, Kiran. You remember this idea of cardiac arrest and what caused it.

But, again, this is a medication given by IV. It is not a pill. And because it's given by IV, it has to be given continuously. You can't just give one shot and then have it really much of an effect. You have to give it continually in the way we're hearing about, Kiran.

CHETRY: And so that's what we were talking about today in the newsroom, as well. So if you have to give it continuously, that would mean that there would be a doctor, right, or a person doing it.? Is there any other way that it would be administered where the person wasn't actively there monitoring it?

GUPTA: Any other way would be unsafe and unregulated. One thing about Propofol which is sort of interesting, and I have learned a lot about this over the last few weeks, is that it's not a controlled substance, and there's no specific rules on where it can be administered.

But the rules are it has to be administered by someone who is trained to do it, who can give the medication and monitor oxygenation, monitor heart rate and those sorts of things.

So it would be very hard for someone to hook up an IV to themselves, start the drip, and then go to sleep. That would be an extremely unsafe way to do it.

CHETRY: But could a doctor hook up an IV to the person and then not monitor them continuously?

GUPTA: Yes. That certainly could happen. And you have people who are, even within hospitals, who may not be as diligent about monitoring those things as other doctors.

But the reality is, in most settings, doctors go through separate training even to administer this particular drug, learning how to monitor those things continuously.

One think let me just say about this week in the toxicology is that, you know, I said this since the beginning, we may not have an exact discrete relationship between high levels of Propofol -- we didn't know it was Propofol at that time, but high levels of medication, and death, because Propofol disappears from the bloodstream very quickly.

My guess is, Kiran, is that they're looking for a lot of physical evidence to sort of support that. So if you see Propofol in the room, you see an IV, you have some Propofol in the line, you say this is likely what caused it. But to have the exact high levels of Propofol and cause of death, we may not see that stuff.

CHETRY: Wow. So you're saying that even after the much-awaited toxicology reports come out, we may not know for sure what led to Michael Jackson's death?

GUPTA: That's right. That's a very unusual substance. They're not used to testing for it. Sometimes they find the breakdown products of the Propofol as opposed to the Propofol itself.

So it will be interesting to see. And my guess is when they're trying to look for all this other evidence, they're basically trying to find out exactly what happened and build a particular case.

CHETRY: All right. And perhaps the person who knows best is the people, including this doctor, who were with Michael right before he died.

All right, Sanjay Gupta for us this morning, thanks.

GUPTA: Thanks, Kiran.

ROBERTS: The feds have charged seven men in North Carolina with supporting terrorism and conspiracy to commit murder overseas. The Justice Department says one of the men, an American citizen named Daniel Patrick Boyd, travelled to Pakistan and Afghanistan to train for violent jihad. Two of Boyd's sons also among those charged.

CHETRY: $1 billion federal dollars handed out this morning to help American cities and states hire nearly 4,000 new police officers and also to keep 900 more on the beat. Vice President Joe Biden will announce the federal grant in Philadelphia today.

The aid is just a fraction of what was requested. For every dollar given, another $7 in requests had to be rejected. According to the A.P., New York, Pittsburgh, Seattle, and Houston got nothing because the Department of Justice decided the need was greater elsewhere.

ROBERTS: Plus, we have the 911 tapes that brought the Cambridge police to the doorstep of Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. and the tape of Sergeant Crowley's communication with fellow officers. What does it mean for the case and the controversy? Insights from a 30-year police veteran coming up next.

It's eight minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: On Thursday, the president will meet at the White House with Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. and the Cambridge police officer who arrested him, Sergeant James Crowley.

But the newly released 911 tapes and recordings of Crowley's communication with his fellow officers are raising some new questions this morning.

For more on all of that, I'm joined by police detective Lieutenant Steven Rogers, a 30-year veteran of the Nutley, New Jersey Police Department.

He's also the author of "Proven Strategies for Effective Community Oriented Policing," this hot little book that I have in my hands right now. There you go, and you can take a picture of it.

Steve, thanks very much for being with us. Let's Listen, first of all, to a little bit of the 911 call. This is Lucille Whalen, who is the woman who called in after talking with a neighbor who says that she saw a couple of people allegedly trying to break in to the home of Henry Louis Gates Jr. Let's listen.

ROGERS: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are they still in the house?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are still in the house, I believe yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are they white, black, or Hispanic?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, there were two larger men. One looked kind of Hispanic, but I'm not really sure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: So the official police report said the 911 call had described two African-Americans who were trying to break into a house. Whalen's attorney disputed that whole notion, saying that she never said that two black men were trying to break into the house and the 911 tape would seem to back her up on that.

So a couple of questions arise out of this. What would lead, a, to that discrepancy? And, b, based on that 911 call, what would Sergeant Crowley have expected he was coming upon when he went to Henry Gates Jr.'s house?

DET. LT. STEVEN ROGERS, FORMER MEMBER, FBI JOINT TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Obviously there is a discrepancy, and that's something that the police department is going to have to work through.

However, I'm troubled, John, over the fact this has become a discussion about racial profiling. That was never the case. These police officers responded to a scene that was burglarized once before, and they never brought up race.

What's troubling about this is that the president of the United States made this into an issue of stereotyping the color blue. And this is a problem police officers have nationally.

We can't look at every police officer as being prejudice and profiling as a result of responding to any crime scene that involves a person of color.

So what I'm saying is that these officers acted properly. They did what they had to do according to law. And unfortunately, race has come into this picture.

ROBERTS: So do you think that the president overstepped when he responded to Lynn Sweet from the "Chicago Sun-Times" question about this case?

ROGERS: Yes, John. On fact, the president did what people across the country do when it comes to police actions like this, he stereotyped. He should not have done that. He should have gotten the facts.

Nowhere was race ever a part of this picture. Those officers responded to a scene of a crime. They didn't profile, they didn't pick out a white man, black man, a Hispanic man. When they got there, they had a situation they had to deal with and they dealt with it very professionally.

ROBERTS: Do we know that race never became an issue here, because Professor Gates insists that he believes he was being racially profiled in his own home? And we have some radio transcriptions of the communications between Sergeant Crowley and his dispatcher. Let's listen to some of those and discern what we can take away from that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gentleman says he presides here. He's uncooperative, but keep the cars coming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: He says, a, the gentleman says he resides here. He's being uncooperative. Keep the cars coming.

So he's got a case where he -- maybe his reason to believe that Gates actually lives there. But he continues to call for backup and he says that he's being uncooperative.

ROGERS: The key is uncooperative. I've responded to many scenes where people are in their own home. I don't know that they live there. They had not yet shown me identification. So I would say would you please step outside, just like these officers did.

You don't know if that person actually lives there. They may have weapons in the house, there may be someone else in the house.

ROBERTS: OK, so why do you ask the person to step outside, because supporters of Dr. Gates say he asked him to step outside so that he could arrest him because he couldn't arrest him in his own home.

ROGERS: No, I don't think that's true. I think the police officers asked him to step outside because they did not know that he actually was the person who lived there. I don't believe that -- ROBERTS: He showed him identification.

ROGERS: Well, I don't believe he did that before they asked him to step outside. If you look at the whole transcript, the professor was rather combative in the beginning. He said, don't you know who I am? The officers didn't know who he was.

So you step outside because there could be someone else in that house. You want to control the situation.

I don't believe the police asked him to step outside to arrest him. I just think they wanted to make sure they were safe, and they tried to contain the situation, but Professor Gates inflamed the situation.

ROBERTS: So all of them are getting together for a beer at the White House on Thursday. President Obama says he hopes he can use this as a teaching moment. If this is to be a teaching moment, what's the take-away message?

ROGERS: The teaching moment is to the president of the United States, don't stereotype police officers. That's the teaching moment. I believe --

ROBERTS: You think that's the only teachable moment here?

ROGERS: Well, no. I think that's a very primary teaching moment. In other words, something we should take away from this. There is --

ROGERS: Nothing about how the interaction between the -- between the police officer and the -- and Dr. Gates could have been --

ROBERTS: No, I believe --

ROGERS: -- could have defused a tense situation?

ROGERS: John, the police didn't cause this situation. They did their job according to the standard operating procedures of that police department and police agencies across the country.

Sure, we need to lower the rhetoric -- we need to lower the rhetoric, but with the truth. The truth of the matter is the police did their job. The professor was offended that they didn't know him. And we have the president of the United States injecting himself in a local issue that would have never got this far if he didn't involve himself.

ROBERTS: I think there are probably people in this country who may argue with that position.

ROGERS: Sure they will.

ROBERTS: Steve, it's good to talk to you this morning. Thanks for coming in.

ROGERS: Thank you very much.

ROBERTS: We really appreciate it.

Now that you've heard the 911 tapes, we want to know what you think about the controversy surrounding the Gates case. You can leave a comment on our show blog at CNN.com/amfix, or call our show hotline at 1-877-my-amfix.

It is not 16 minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: You know what today's song selection reminds me of -- someone's IPod went wacky on shuffle. We have hip-hop. Nice mix.

Christine Romans minding your business. Hey, good morning.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN HOST, CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. I'm following talks in China -- talks in Washington today with a huge delegation from China, 150 top Chinese leaders in Washington with what the administration is saying is the first strategic economic dialogue.

It's not the first. It actually started under Treasury Secretary Paulson a couple of years ago, but it is the continuation and the broadening out, the White House is saying, of this conversation.

Let's listen to what the president had to say about the relationship between China and the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The relationship between the United States and China will shape the 21st century, which makes it as important as any bilateral relationship in the world. That really must underpin our partnership. That is the responsibility that together we bear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Now, the China watchers are saying you have to have a long, long, long time horizon when we're talking about progress in this economic relationship.

And this is actually a relationship that began, you know, eight administrations ago. What you're seeing here a montage of all of the different people who have had strategic and economic dialogue with the Chinese.

The United States usually has a long, long list of things it wants fixed. It wants its currency not to be pegged in a way that it is which favors their manufacturers. It wants human rights to be addressed. It wants labor and environmental standards to be addressed.

All of those things take a back seat now, because the United States is in a position where it has to defend what it's doing in the -- in the economy, all of the money that we're borrowing. It has to defend what we're doing for the Chinese because the Chinese own $801.5 billion of American Treasury bonds.

So the Chinese are our bankers. So we know that behind closed doors at these meetings, the Chinese have been asking pretty pointed questions, what are you doing to get your fiscal house in order so you don't hurt the investment, you don't hurt the value of the dollar, you don't spark inflation.

These are the things the Chinese are asking. So a lot of the China watchers, including the people supportive of American manufacturing, say some of the things they're really been pushing for to help American manufacturing and American workers really take a back seat because the American delegation has to defending what it's doing right now.

ROBERTS: Have you got a Romans numeral for us this morning? We should preface this by saying the Romans numeral is a number that Christine gives us every day. It's driving the story about your money. Today's number is --

ROMANS: This is a year. It's 1985.

ROBERTS: That's the last time I didn't have credit card debt.

ROMANS: Really, John, we have to work with that.

Speaking of credit card debt, it actually has to go with that -- 1985 -- this is the last time, 1985 is the last time the U.S. government had issued so much debt. This week, the U.S. government is issuing a ton of debt, some $200 billion of debt.

We are borrowing money for all of the stimulus, for all of the fiscal rescue, for everything that we've been doing. We're borrowing all of this money. We have to issue bonds, a huge amount of bonds going out this week, the most since 1985.

CHETRY: And that's why we need China.

ROMANS: That's why we need China. At the same time they're worried about everything that we're doing because they're worried that we're going to hurt their investment down the road.

So it's pretty crazy -- pretty crazy territory we're in right now for how much money we're borrowing and spending. I mean, that's a technical term, "crazy territory." But we're really borrowing a lot of money right now.

CHETRY: All right, and we're betting that it's all going to turn around.

ROMANS: We are borrowing the money to try to fix our problems so that we can grow and prosper again.

CHETRY: Christine, thank you so much.

Meanwhile, it's 23 minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: Welcome back to the most news in the morning.

From prison to the playing field, NFL quarterback Michael Vick has been reinstated with the NFL. There are conditions, and after nearly two years behind bars for running a dog fighting ring, some are also asking are there teams that are going to take him.

ROBERTS: Yes. It does mean, though, if there is a team out there, that the former Atlanta Falcon quarterback could be playing football this fall.

Carol Costello has been gauging reaction to the NFL's decision. So what's the buzz this morning?

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It seems like lots of people are talking about it. You know teams will pick him up. Let's say it's mid season, the team's losing.

ROBERTS: Pick him up as a --

COSTELLO: Everybody says Oakland is going to take him.

But people are buzzing about it this morning. We asked our viewers about whether Michael Vick should be reinstated, and a good number said he did his time and he did deserve another shot.

Well, apparently, the NFL has agreed. The commissioner said if a team picks him up, he can participate in practices. He'll be able to play in his club's two preseason games providing a club picks him up.

And it is possible that he can play in the regular season games by week six. In other words, he'll be suspended for five games and he'll get to play in game six. Listen to what the commissioner said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROGER GOODELL, NFL COMMISSIONER: One of the most important things that we talked about is that nobody gets through life alone, that you always have to have a mentor, you have to have someone who will give you guidance, support at critical moments.

Michael needs that right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: And he's going to get that from former Indianapolis Colts coach Tony Dungy. Dungy will be Vick's mentor. And there will also be other professionals around Michael Vick helping him out psychologically.

His probation officer will also report back to the NFL with progress reports. And essentially what this means is one tiny little slipup by Michael Vick and he's out of there again. COSTELLO: OK, so what about PETA, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals? They promised or vowed to protest unless Michael Vick got a brain scan proving that he was fully sorry. I don't know how a brain scan would prove that.

ROMANS: Well, there's no evidence that a brain scan could really prove that. And he didn't get a brain scan, but he certainly did see psychologists.

So that said, PETA is still going to protest at game for whatever team picks him up.

but the Humane Society is a whole different story. The Humane Society has talked to Michael Vick in prison. He will work with the Humane Society, traveling around the country teaching young kids not to get involved in dog fighting. He'll probably make some public service announcements that will appear on television.

And if he does all that, maybe, maybe the public will kind of --

CHETRY: I don't know why you have to be taught that it's not good to soak dogs in water and electrocute them and kill them. I mean, like, most people would know that.

COSTELLO: I'm going to play devil's advocate, because Michael Vick started in dog fighting when he was eight years old. It's a cultural thing.

So he was used to that sort of thing growing up, and that's part of the reason why it's gone blown so much out of control.

But, you know, imagine him playing a game for a team and they play against the Philadelphia Eagles. Imagine --

CHETRY: That's a good team to decide. They would have a field day. I don't even know if you can hear any calls from all of the screaming in the stands.

But that's one of the things that the teams have to consider id they decide whether or not to pick them up, use him as replacement. What's it going to be like for the rest of the team to have to play when you know the opposing fans will have a field day with it.

COSTELLO: Well, like I said, in the end, isn't it all about winning in the NFL? Let's not be like -- I know I'm cynical. If you're --

CHETRY: I know.

COSTELLO: I know, but if you're losing by mid season and you really need a quarterback, maybe you'll take a chance on Michael Vick.

CHETRY: What is Carol going to do if the Lions pick him up? You're going to have a tough time.

COSTELLO: I will. I'll cry. CHETRY: You're going to need a brain scan.

COSTELLO: I'm betting on Mr. Stafford.

CHETRY: Carol Costello for us again this morning. Thanks.

COSTELLO: Sure.

ROBERTS: As always, we want to hear what you think. Go to our blog at CNN.com/amfix and weigh in. Tell us what you think about Michael Vick being reinstated in and this potential cross country tour talking about the evils of dog fighting. Is it better for dogs or is it better for Michael Vick?

CHETRY: In the meantime we check our top stories this morning.

Defense Chief Robert Gates is in Iraq. He made an unannounced visit. He's at a southern command post where U.S. forces mainly serve as advisers to Iraqi troops, and this base is a prototype as the Pentagon's role in Iraq shifts to one of support.

Secretary Gates will also meet with political leaders, including Iraq's Prime Minister Nori al Maliki.

ROBERTS: In just a few hours time the space shuttle Endeavour is scheduled to undock from the International Space Station. That will end the largest meeting ever in space -- 13 astronauts between the crews and the shuttle on the shuttle and the International Space Station.

But the seven astronauts on Endeavour still have a few days in space. They are scheduled to return home on Friday.

CHETRY: Hit hard by the economy, more airlines boosting fares and fees to stay out of the red. Even low-cost carriers like Southwest and Airtran have added up to $10 to $20 on their round trip fares. Delta, American, Continental, all long carriers upping their checked bag fees by another $5.

Well, it's 30 minutes past the hour.

The Senate working toward a bipartisan proposal for health care reform. Democrat leaders in the House are now saying that there will not be a vote, though, on the president's health care reform before they hit their August break.

A group of fiscally conservative Democrats who call themselves the "Blue Dog Coalition" one of the roadblocks in the way. They'll meeting again today to talk about any plan, the president, and the congressional leaders need their support but with cost estimates for the plan hitting a trillion dollars that is going to be a tough sell.

Joining me now from Washington, one of those blue dog democrats, Congressman Jim Cooper.

Thanks for being with us this morning. REP. JIM COOPER, MEMBER BLUE DOG COALITION: Good morning, delighted.

CHETRY: So for people who don't know, you guys are a group of fiscally conservative house democrats, 52 of you known as the blue dog coalition. And right now, you have some concerns about this health care overhaul that's making its way through Congress right now.

What are the key areas that you take issue with?

COOPER: We're one of several democratic groups that's worried about particular parts of the bill. Our primary concern is that the bill is too expensive. We want everybody covered but the president has been very clear. He wants a deficit neutral bill and he wants one that bends the cost curves in the right direction, in other words, it doesn't add to our long-term problems.

We can get a bill like this. We can also get a bipartisan bill. They're working on that in the Senate. But unfortunately, the House has been reluctant to take that approach. The Senate will be the real gap here. They have to get 60 votes to pass anything. And that requires some form of bipartisanship.

CHETRY: Yes. The Congressional Budget Office claiming that the current bill in the house right now will add $239 billion to the deficit, that's one of the major sticking points for you guys.

As you look to possibly figure out ways to, as you put it, bend the cost curve or find ways to making programs like Medicare and Medicaid more affordable and sustainable, what needs to happen in your opinion?

COOPER: Well, we're spending $2.4 trillion on health care in America every year and we're really not getting our money's worth. Because we're not getting the results. People really aren't living longer and healthier like they are in some other countries. So how do you get more value for your money? That means you have to change practice patterns and that's a tough thing to do.

CHETRY: Right.

COOPER: Many doctors are set in their ways. And it's a cultural thing. It's going to take time a lot of time and effort to change.

CHETRY: And Congressman Cooper, it's interesting because the argument for this public option that many of you guys are opposed to is that that's how you bring costs down, by bringing the government into it, by having a government program that can compete with private insurers to bring the costs down.

You don't buy that?

COOPER: Well, personally, I'm open to the public option. The blue dogs as a whole are not. The key is to be on the level playing field and not squelch private sector competition. You know what the overall plan is supposed to look like is the way federal employees have shopped for health care for 30 or 40 years. It works great.

In fact, it's a perk we should share with all the American people. Let everybody shop from that annual menu. And the federal employees have never had a public option. They've never asked for one. So it's possible to do it several different ways. But the key is to make sure that we have vibrant private sector competition.

CHETRY: You were briefed on the meeting as I understand it and it happened last night, late into the night with the chair of your committee, Henry Waxman. AS we understand, he offered to address some of the concerns that the blue dog conservatives.

What would you guys need to see to accept any proposal in the House right now?

COOPER: Well, there are no bright lines right now, Kiran. He took some key areas like Medicaid and affordability off the table entirely. When really the whole key is affordability. That's what the president has stressed. We got to make sure this plan is affordable for every American. And right now it looks like a budget buster according to the Congressional Budget Office. So we need to make sure that we can have a sustainable health care plan here that works for every American.

CHETRY: A couple of op-eds are actually blasting the blue dogs today for opposing the plan. The "Washington Post" says that a government plan would actually help people in your very districts, in rural areas that you guys represent. They say many farmers, many ranchers, many self-employed right now cannot afford private insurance and would benefit from a government program.

Isn't the goal to help out people in your district who may not be able to afford health care currently?

COOPER: Well, absolutely. Whatever works. And I think there are types of a public plan that can work as long as it's on a level playing field. But, remember, the leading public plan in America today, Medicare, a much-beloved program, if you look at the accounting of it, it's on pretty thin ice. It's $34 trillion in the hole. So that's not a program that's really on sound financial footing. We need to make sure that Medicare is stronger and we need to make sure that whatever public option that's involved is on strong financial footing.

CHETRY: So your concern is not necessarily - you're saying separately from what the blue dog coalition is concerned about, which is many of them do not want a public option in general. You're not so concerned about the federal government involvement in insurance, you're saying that the cost has to come down.

That you would support a public option if there was some way that it ended up bringing down costs over the decade for health care?

COOPER: Exactly, Kiran. Months ago, I did a memo outlining 18 possible public options. There are different ways to do this. So many advocates of public option don't really know specifically what they're advocating and so many opponents don't really know what they're opposing. So it's important that we get the definition right.

CHETRY: All right. It sure is. And so as we know right now, likely not happening before the August recess in Congress, but hopefully there will be some sort of bipartisan consensus on some of this. I want to thank you for being with us. Congressman Jim Cooper from Tennessee.

COOPER: My pleasure.

CHETRY: Thanks for joining us this morning.

COOPER: Thank you.

ROBERTS: So we got a couple of great guests coming up that you'll want to know about. First of all, Ambassador Richard Holbrooke, who, of course, is the White House point person on South Asia including Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India is going to join us to talk about a new way forward in Afghanistan.

And then, if you thought gators were tough, wait until you meet Florida's only licensed female alligator trapper. We got all that ahead. It's 36 minutes after the hour.

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ROBERTS: OK. This may not be a problem that all of us have, but it's still a little bit frightening. You go out back of your house on a hot day and there's an uninvited guest in your pool. Stop one of the neighbors, it's an alligator. Who are you going to call?

CHETRY: It's actually for people who live in some parts of Florida, this is a common occurrence, right?

ROBERTS: Absolutely.

CHETRY: Well, you know, they seem to like the chlorine. Who knows? If you call and you live in Florida, you got to call the gator lady. Our John Zarrella, who is our resident alligator analyst, I guess you could say, captures the struggles of the state's only female alligator animal trapper who takes on eight feet of fury for a living.

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JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Once in a while, Julie Harper gets snickers and behind-the-back laughs from, of course, men.

JULIE HARTER, ALLIGATOR TRAPPER: You just take it in stride. And you know, like today, I think I had a few doubting Thomases around here but -

ZARRELLA (on camera): Didn't think you could do it, huh? (voice-over): It's understandable says Harter because she's the only woman contracted with the state of Florida to trap alligators. Yep, Harter catches gators. Her territory, Tampa and surrounding Hillsboro county.

HARTER: Better not have gotten loose. Someone is going in after him. And it isn't me.

ZARRELLA: Late on a Monday afternoon, Harter heads to a back yard pond. Earlier, she had baited a hook for a nuisance gator that had taken a dog.

HARTER: Trapper tires out for the gator.

ZARRELLA: The gator breaks the surface, he's seven, maybe eight foot. With his southern brand of humor, Harter adds -

HARTER: He's a male, uncooperative.

ZARRELLA: Harter started catching gators with her husband back in the mid 1990s. In fact, on their first date, he got a call for a nuisance gator. She went with him. After his death, six years ago, Julie applied for and got his trapping contract.

HARTER: This afternoon when I was baiting this hook, I was like, OK, honey, tell me where to put it, you know, kind of thinking - maybe I should have listened to him a little bit more.

ZARRELLA: By the looks of the trophy catches inside her home, Julie learned just fine. Her biggest one, over 800 pounds.

(on camera): So you had some help.

HARTER: I'm not stupid.

ZARRELLA (voice-over): Not every nuisance gator is a monster. That shadow on the bottom of the pool, yes, gator. The family had just moved here from Boston. The kids spotted it first.

RON SIMMONS: Daddy, there's a gator by the pool. What? I went back - I really didn't expect to see one back there but -

ZARRELLA: For Harter, these are the easy ones, but at just two feet, he would have left a nasty bite with its mouth taped, the kids get a little education from Julie.

HARTER: See, all of these are little bones all over him.

ZARRELLA: The bigger gators Julie catches are processed for meat and hide. The little ones, under four foot, get relocated.

HARTER: See you, baby.

ZARRELLA (on camera): You wouldn't dream of doing anything else?

HARTER: Never. Never. I'm pretty damn good at it. ZARRELLA (voice-over): And she proves it every day. John Zarrella, CNN, Tampa.

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ROBERTS: Good morning, Mr. President. Here's your daily weather forecast. Mostly cloudy and 74 degrees right now. Later on today, isolated thunderstorms. And a high of 91 in the nation's capital.

Well, right there behind the White House, you see part of the National Mall there in front of the Washington Monument. It's known as America's front yard but it's in really bad shape. The Department of the Interior says the National Mall which of course runs between the Capitol Building and the Lincoln Memorial needs a $400 million facelift but it's only getting $55 million in stimulus money.

Brian Todd "Minding your Business" this morning, looking at what some people call a national disgrace.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John, Kiran.

We have a perfect example of what we're talking about here, juxtaposed images that are very contradictory. You got the Washington monument in all of its glory over there. The Jefferson Memorial here. But our photographer Floyd Jarmoth (ph) is going to zoom into that sea wall area right there, right here on the tidal basin.

You see how brown and murkiest that is? That area gets breached at least once a day. You got whole stones falling in to the tidal basin. And as often is the case in this town, it's all a matter of money and influence.

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TODD (voice-over): It's enticingly enough to draw 25 million tourists a year, more than yellow stone, the Grand Canyon, and the Yosemite National Park combined. This is often what they stumble on. The sea wall by the Jefferson Memorial breached every day. It sunk at least six inches in three years. This kind of disrepair is all over the National Mall.

(on camera): It's one of the best known landmarks in Washington, the reflecting pool looks terrific in postcards and in movies. But if you come down here and see it up close, this is what you're treated to. Take a look, goose droppings on this side stone, stretching as far as the eye can see toward the Lincoln Memorial.

The water is polluted with it. This is supposed to be a pool with a filtration system. It's never had one. It's standing water, essentially. It's only cleaned out a couple of times a year. The National Parks Service doesn't have the staff or the resources to come down and clean it up enough. (voice-over): Caroline Cunningham calls the mall a disgrace and it's sometimes a deadly one.

TODD (on camera): This is the capital reflecting pool. What happened with the ducks here last year?

CAROLINE CUNNINGHAM: Last year, 17 ducks died because of avian botulism the water is so foul.

TODD (voice-over): Cunningham is president of the truth for the National Mall, a nonprofit trying to raise private funds to match money from the Congress. That's part of the problem. Cunningham estimated some $400 million needed for the mall's upkeep hasn't been spent. She says some in Congress simply haven't realized the scope of decay at their doorstep.

Steve Ellis from the watchdog group Taxpayer for Common Sense says many lawmakers who control purse strings like Senator Robert Byrd have no problem sending money home for shall we say less trafficked monuments.

STEVE ELLIS, TAXPAYER FOR COMMON SENSE: Including $100,000 for the Mother's Day Shrine which is in a small town in West Virginia.

TODD: Contacted by CNN, a spokesman for Senator Byrd e-mailed us saying that shrine was built in 1873. It's a historic landmark itself, and that the senator responding to his constituents and the need to help restore the structure obtained the money for the repairs.

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TODD: The spokesman also said Senator Byrd would have supported the package of about $200 million for mall repairs that was polled earlier this year because some members of Congress said it was not stimulus worthy.

John and Kiran, back to you.

ROBERTS: And that I'll never figure that out about Washington. We're talking about the stimulus bill. I think at that time it was $200 million for the National Mall reconstruction. It's outrageous. Why would we spend that money? And now people says, why aren't we spending that money. It's outrageous. It's like -

CHETRY: You know what -

ROBERTS: Make yourself crazy here.

CHETRY: It's the same thing. You go over a pothole in your car and you say, ughh, why don't they fix this darn road. Wait a minute, how much money are you spending on road work, this is ridiculous. Just what can you do.

ROBERTS: The inherent incongruity of Washington, which is why we love it so much. 49 minutes now after the hour.

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CHETRY: 51 minutes past the hour. It's hard to fully understand the health care reform battle, a new bill, as we talked about in Congress, 1,000 some pages. It leaves a lot of people wondering what would be covered under any so-called public plan and what would not.

The bottom line for many people is this, will my care be covered? We're "Paging Dr. Gupta" to find out. Our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, answering questions about the plan in plain English. All right. Sanjay, let's get to the first question that we have right now about this plan. This is from Linda in Dallas. Let's listen.

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LINDA: Hello, Dr. Gupta. I'm Linda from Dallas, Texas. My dad had prostate cancer and I suffered complications during pregnancy. Both of us benefited from procedures that technically were not classified as standard of care. Who decides what procedures are standard versus "experimental"? If the House health bill passes, will they only cover the cost of standard procedures?

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DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: All right. Well, Linda, there's a couple of important points there. First of all, the right answer is we don't exactly know what the bill is going to be covering because it hasn't been formalized and there are still some details to work out. And also in that there is a large amount of satisfaction overall with Medicare as a rule.

So when you think about these, think about the things that are going to be covered. There's fewer than 10 percent of people who say that they are unsatisfied with Medicare in terms of what they cover.

But let's take your specific question point by point here if we can. Look at a couple of specific issues when it comes to, for example, Pap smear exams. Medicare on average covers it once every 24 months. There are private insurance companies who is going to be over the map on this. A couple of the big ones that we talked to say they are going to cover it every 12 months. This all changes if there's some sort of abnormality.

But you get an idea there, a little bit of the difference in terms of what is going to be covered specifically. When it comes to things like cholesterol lipid test, something that people think a lot about. Medicare once every five years, private insurance, once every 12 months.

Again, it's going to make a difference in terms of what specifically people - if they have some sort of abnormality. And finally, you know, when you talk about things like colonoscopies, Medicare does not cover virtual colonoscopies whereas private insurance does cover it in many states. The argument there, Linda, is that does it make a difference? Do virtual colonoscopies really seem to help.

So, here's a little bit of where the rubber hits the road in terms of the specifics of this particular bill and how it affects you.

CHETRY: That was interesting, cholesterol testing only once every five years when it's such a big indicator for heart disease and future problems.

GUPTA: That's right. And it raises two questions. One is, you know, again, if there's some sort of abnormality, it'll be covered more often. You know, if your cholesterol is high and you're on medications for example. The second question which is the larger question is, does it make a difference to check it more frequently? And that's really what a lot of this bill is about. What works the best and saves the most money at the same time?

CHETRY: All right. And so also, who gets to decide? This is what people are worried about, as well, what is medically necessary for you to be healthy or for you to get treatment? Who gets to decide what works?

GUPTA: Well, you know, as you might imagine, a lot of this is based on sort of what ends up getting covered by Medicare, and right now you have an independent agency, there's about 17 physicians, health care providers who make that decision.

What we're hearing from President Obama is that there's going to be an independent agency, as well, that's going to be at the executive level. They're going to make recommendations to the president, to Congress on what should be covered and there's a 30-day waiting period to sort of figure out whether they'll be covered or not.

CHETRY: All right. Sanjay for us this morning, trying to clear up some of the questions that people have about this.

Thanks so much.

And by the way, if you want to have a question answered by Sanjay, go ahead and send it to us. Your health reform questions, cnn.com/amfix. You can also send Sanjay a tweet. He's at Sanjay Gupta CNN. And I-report as well, Sanjay simplifying health care reform. He'll be your inside source all week long right here on AMERICAN MORNING.

ROBERTS: Defense Secretary Robert Gates says the United States has a year to turn things around in Afghanistan, not to win, but just to show progress there otherwise the world may wonder why we're still there and what the end game is.

The man charged from the State Department and the administration for helping to turn things diplomatically is Ambassador Richard Holbrooke. He's going to be joining us, coming right up to talk about what the new U.S. plan in Afghanistan should be and whether or not we can achieve success there.

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