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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Michael Jackson Death Probe Expanding; Drew Peterson Asks for Change of Venue; Cindy Anthony Questioned; Killed for Unborn Baby?; Missing 8- year-old Boy
Aired July 29, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, seismic developments in the Michael Jackson manslaughter probe. Dr. Conrad Murray, the primary target for now, but TMZ reports authorities are homing in on a web of at least 12 other doctors who may have helped the King of Pop use some two dozen aliases to score drugs.
Meantime, are the executors of Jackson`s will keeping Michael`s mom in the dark? They reportedly claim her lawyers want to rewrite the will. So who will come out on top in this showdown that could be worth hundreds of millions of dollars?
And breaking updates in the Casey Anthony case. Mom, Cindy, grilled by state prosecutors for the second straight day. What are they trying to get out of her, with dad, George, and brother, Lee, set to be questioned, will their depositions contain the characteristic Anthony antics?
Then the furious search rages on for adorable 8-year-old Robert Manwill.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is Robert`s bear that has always been close to his heart, and our family would love to reunite them.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops chase dozens of leads, but are left with no breakthroughs. Who took this cute little boy?
Plus, new drama in the case against Drew Peterson, charged with killing his third wife and suspected in the disappearance of wife No. 4. His lawyers want a venue change, claiming media bias. Are we to blame? We`ll debate it.
ISSUES starts now!
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, massive developments in the Michael Jackson death probe as a troubling picture emerges of the investigation`s reported primary target, Dr. Conrad Murray. Critical to the manslaughter probe, the events that went down in the hours, minutes, and even seconds before Michael Jackson was pronounced dead on June 25.
CNN correspondent Randi Kaye has stunning revelations about the frantic attempt to revive Michael Jackson. A Los Angeles Fire Department captain says Michael was not briefing and had no pulse when paramedics arrived.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Captain Ruda (ph) with the fire department told me that Mr. Jackson got what he called the hallelujah package. That means he really got the works in this case. And at the house, Anderson, paramedics worked on Michael Jackson for 42 minutes.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Never heard that term, the hallelujah package.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Forty-two minutes? Why did they work on Michael Jackson for so long? Is it possible that, given he had no pulse and wasn`t breathing, he was already dead? And why didn`t they take him to the hospital right away?
And this bombshell from the Associated Press. Michael Jackson`s personal chef makes a startling claim that Dr. Murray yelled, "Go get Prince," just minutes before 911 was called. Was this so Michael`s 12- year-old son would be a witness to Dr. Murray`s efforts to save his dad?
Also tonight, TMZ citing law enforcement sources reports the death probe goes much deeper than just Dr. Murray. We will find out who else is in the crosshairs of the cops and why.
This as questions about the practices of Dr. Murray`s Houston clinic are being raised. CBS News spoke to one physician who explained why she says she declined a job offer there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. CHERYL BRYANT BRUCE, ELITE PERSONAL PHYSICIAN: Many of the patients were coming in, requesting inappropriate medications, narcotic medications for inappropriate indications.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Meantime, new reports that Dr. Murray was being crushed by a mountain of money problems when he went to work as Jackson`s personal physician. Court documents show $435,000 in judgments and liens against him over the past two years. Is that why he took the Jackson job at $150,000 a month?
All this plus, is Katherine Jackson making a play for control over her son`s estate, which could be worth with more than $500 million?
So much to get to. Plus, your calls. Give me a holler. Straight out to my outstanding panel: Jim Moret, attorney and chief correspondent for "Inside Edition"; Dr. Cathleen London, board-certified family practice physician; Steve Kardian, former criminal investigator and director of Defend University; Lisa Bloom, CNN legal analyst; and Darren Kavinoky, criminal defense attorney.
But first, joining us for the very latest is Harvey Levin, executive producer of TMZ.
Harvey, thanks again for joining us tonight. Tell us about your reports that the Jackson death probe has expanded to as many as a dozen doctors?
HARVEY LEVIN, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, TMZ: Yes, Jane, it`s actually been expanding. This -- it`s not new that it`s expanded; it just keeps going.
We have known for weeks now that the coroner and the LAPD, they`ve been talking with various doctors, who have been involved in Michael Jackson`s prescription practices, especially doctors where aliases are involved. They have turned up a bunch of stuff.
But even today, the coroner went to the offices of the Beverly Hills doctor who uses a nurse anesthetist, who -- that office was used by Dr. Arnold Klein, we`re told, where the doctor came over with Michael Jackson. The nurse anesthetist actually administered anesthesia during the procedures that Dr. Klein performed there.
But all of this is rolled into one much bigger investigation over how is it that Michael Jackson got so many drugs, using different names. And I`m -- based on what I`m hearing, I would not be surprised if soon we`re talking about several dozen doctors.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Several dozen doctors. That`s the standing. Of course, the focus has been on Michael Jackson`s personal doctor, Conrad Murray. His Las Vegas home raided just yesterday. TMZ says this video shows Dr. Murray walking back into his home after DEA agents descended upon it.
Harvey, his face is shrouded by a cap. He`s not facing the camera. How can you be so sure that that is Dr. Conrad Murray?
LEVIN: Well, we actually -- we showed it to a neighbor, but also, we showed it to someone who worked with him at the Staples Center during the various rehearsals. Dr. Murray was actually there.
And I have to say, one of the things that I had been told for several weeks now is that he made his presence known at the Staples Center and was quite proud of the fact that he was working directly with Michael Jackson, which didn`t sit well with some of the people there, and they found him overbearing. But he was around and there were people who saw him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Harvey, quickly, what about this power grab that delayed a simultaneous raid? They raided the Houston office last week, but they had to wait six days to raid the Las Vegas home of Dr. Murray. No surprise, then?
LEVIN: Well, no surprise at all, Jane. We have sources who have told us they wanted to do a simultaneous raid, but the Las Vegas D.A. held it up. There were some issues, we`re told, where they felt that maybe there was a probable cause issue. The DEA and the LAPD say that`s baloney. There was more than enough probable cause, that this was a power grab, they feel, the DEA, as well, a power grab by the D.A. and the local police. They deny that.
But just one other quick thing, Jane. You had said at the beginning of the show about Michael Jackson when paramedics arrived. It`s worse than what you said. He had no electrical activity going on in his heart.
And just so you know, I mean, there are paramedics -- and we`ve been reporting this now for a while -- but there are paramedics who said, he was dead when they got there, and they were prepared to declare him dead. It was Dr. Murray who wanted to take him to the hospital. And he had the superior medical training, so he could trump them. But they said there was absolutely no sign of life when they got there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Harvey Levin, it`s always great to talk to you. And I know you`ve been on top of this story from the start, breaking story after story. So hopefully, we`ll see you again real soon.
LEVIN: OK, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thanks, Harvey.
Dr. Cathleen London, you just heard that extraordinary statement, and I want to put it, really, into context for one second. CNN correspondent Randi Kaye told Anderson Cooper about the final moments on Michael Jackson`s life. Let`s listen to this.
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KAYE: And I spoke with Captain Steve Ruda from the L.A. Fire Department, and he told me that Jackson was not breathing and had no pulse when paramedics arrived at the scene of his rented mansion. I`m told that Dr. Conrad Murray, Michael Jackson`s personal physician, we just heard a little bit more about from Ted there, in Vegas, he took...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We lost that, but let me break down the whole timetable of that day. Dr. Murray waited 30 minutes before calling 911. The 911 call lasted two minutes. It took paramedics three minutes to arrive. They worked on Michael for 42 minutes, all without a pulse or breathing, all under Dr. Murray`s authority as the doctor on the scene.
Dr. London, when and who decides somebody is dead?
DR. CATHLEEN LONDON, PRIVATE PRACTICE PHYSICIAN: All right. Well, there isn`t a strict guideline, because there are some relative terms. You know, if someone`s been submerged under water and they`re cold, you know, we have to say they`re not dead until they`re warm and dead.
There can be other reasons that -- if there`s other medications on board and other things that you may keep going to try to revive someone. But that`s an awfully long time to have neither electrical activity, no pulse, no breathing. That`s a little long.
But, yes, an M.D. does declare someone dead. And that is up to them, the senior person.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jim Moret, this is all significant, because time of death is so crucial to determine what exactly went on. Was this an accident or what? And you know, you have this report that three hours before 911 was called, two women go to Dr. Conrad Murray`s storage facility in Houston and pick up these files. So it could be coincidence, but we know authorities are investigating that to see if perhaps he died even before then.
JIM MORET, "INSIDE EDITION": Right. And that`s what makes this more murky. You really look at the time line, not to when 911 was called or the 30 minutes before, but what happened those three hours before.
The Associated Press talked to the chef at Michael Jackson`s house the day of Michael Jackson`s death, and she raises even more questions about when the doctor came down frantically, screaming downstairs for Michael Jackson`s son. That was at least 12 minutes before 911 was called. What happened the minutes before that? Was Michael Jackson, in fact, dead before that?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and it`s so fascinating, because this chef, Lisa Bloom, says that Dr. Murray had this pattern of arriving at about 9:30 at night.
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And then reemerging in the morning carrying two oxygen tanks, and that morning he did not reemerge until later.
BLOOM: Jane, you put your finger right on a very important issue. And that is that three-hour time lag between 9 a.m. and noon. Now, did Dr. Murray oversleep? Because we know that Michael Jackson was using Propofol as an alarm clock. The doctor came in the morning, unhooked him. That`s when he woke up. That`s when he usually had his granola, according to the chef.
I mean, is it possible that something as simple as the doctor oversleeping could explain Michael Jackson`s death? That`s what I`m trying to think of when I put together all of these new facts.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Everybody, stay right there. More on this new unfolding Jackson drama. And I want to take your calls on these developments: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-596-7297. Sound off.
Also, Cindy Anthony grilled by prosecutors about her daughter`s murder rap. Did the lawyers get what they wanted out of her? What did they want out of her anyway?
But first, the Michael Jackson death probe focusing in on Jackson`s personal doctor, Conrad Murray. Here`s Dr. Murray`s lawyer one month ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED CHERNOFF, LAWYER FOR CONRAD MURRAY: It`s still a mystery how he died to Dr. Murray. It was Dr. Murray appearing, as you know, that requested that the family ask for an autopsy, because he needed to know, as well as his physician, what caused Michael Jackson to stop breathing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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DICK GREGORY, FRIEND OF MICHAEL JACKSON: We go back to Neverland, and he asked me to come upstairs. And he grabbed me and started crying, says, "Please don`t leave me. They`re trying to kill me."
And I said, "When`s the last time you ate?"
He said, "No, they`re poisoning me."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: At issue, Michael Jackson`s alleged use of the heavy- duty anesthetic, Propofol. Now, this is fascinating. Dr. Sanjay Gupta demonstrated how it works on CNN`s "AMERICAN MORNING." Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, that guy was out like a light. It is hard to believe that a doctor would be able to do that all by himself, safely in somebody`s home.
Take a look, Dr. London, at the number of people in that surgical room at that time. And yet we are hearing that Dr. Conrad Murray, according to the personal chef who was there, would come down every morning with two oxygen tanks and didn`t come that morning, the morning of Michael Jackson`s death, holding one oxygen tank in each hand.
LONDON: But not just...
STEVE KARDIAN, FORMER CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Hey, Jane, could I -- could I address something?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
KARDIAN: Real quick, I -- several years ago, I was present when my son went under anesthesiology with -- with Propofol, and it was -- I`ve been in law enforcement for 30 years. I`ve been in hospitals many times, and it was frightening, what I saw, how powerful that drug is.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is the thing that doesn`t add up, Darren Kavinoky. OK, according to the personal chef, she was used to the doctor arriving about 9:30 at night, go upstairs to Jackson`s room, and then she would not see him again before she left, sometime late in the evening.
In the morning, when she arrived for work, this woman said she would see the doctor coming down, carrying oxygen tanks. Murray didn`t come downstairs the morning of June 25. Quote, "I thought maybe Mr. Jackson is sleeping late," end quote.
Now, he calls 911, or somebody does in that home, while he`s doing CPR at 12:22. Why didn`t he come downstairs the way he always does, in the morning? And why did he wait until 12:22? In other words, if everything was normal that morning, he would have, normally, come down with the oxygen tanks.
LONDON: Normal`s a relative term.
DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: If everything was normal in the circus that is Michael Jackson`s life, and you know, breakfast of granola with a side of Diprivan here, you know if you`re...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Who`s laughing?
KAVINOKY: If you`re a doctor...
LONDON: I am, Jane, because you used the word "normal."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. All right.
KAVINOKY: Hang on one second here. If you`re Dr. Murray, you want this fight to be about what`s a reasonable medical procedure, what are reasonable medical actions to take. Because if you think about it, one of the great challenges for the prosecution in this case, assuming that he is charged with manslaughter, and come on, who are we fooling here, he`s going to be indicted or arrested too...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s not be. Let`s put away our crystal balls.
LONDON: He has reasonable -- excuse me! He has reasonable -- giving Propofol in that room, you know. He knew enough to give oxygen, but why were there no monitors? Why didn`t he have an assistant?
KAVINOKY: But this is going to be a subject of some considerable debate. And of course, one of the challenges is that the jurors, the people that would ultimately be deciding, are used to taking orders from doctors. They`re not used to second-guessing doctors. So that`s a real practical problem.
But the real question, and the thing that makes the time line issue that you raised so compelling, is if, in fact, the evidence was taken out of the storage locker at the direction of Dr. Murray, the entire game changes. Then it`s about Dr. Murray`s consciousness of guilt, in seeking to destroy what might be inculpatory evidence. And that shifts everything away from reasonable medical decisions to the kind of behavior that you`d expect a criminal to make in covering their tracks.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s go to the phone lines quickly. Anita in Missouri, your question or thought?
CALLER: Well, hi, thank you. If Dr. Murray was right by Michael`s side, then who was the person dialing and talking on 911? That person should have a lot of information that was in that room, those breaking hours.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are so right, Anita from Missouri. Lisa Bloom, weigh in here.
BLOOM: That`s a great question. And my question is, why is the first person that Dr. Murray calls out for Michael Jackson`s 12-year-old son, Prince? I mean, are you kidding me? We`ve got a medical emergency. His sole patient has stopped breathing, OK? He`s in cardiac arrest, and we know he`s about to die or already has died. He calls for a 12-year-old? I mean, will somebody explain that one to me?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jim Moret, final thoughts?
KARDIAN: Those that are cynical will say maybe he`s trying to create evidence, but maybe he wants the kid out of the way.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jim Moret, 10 seconds.
MORET: I think that this doctor has growing problems. We now know that the person on 911, the chef, those are two people who could clearly testify about where Dr. Murray was the morning of Michael Jackson`s death.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s all fascinating stuff. Thank you, amazing panel.
And it`s not just Michael Jackson. Millions of people across America are grappling with addiction. In my new book, "I Want," I reveal details of my own personal battle with alcoholism and my path to sobriety. It`s the recovery memoir due out this fall. You can preorder your copyright right now. Click on CNN.com/Jane. Look for the preorder section. When I got sober 14 years ago, I thought all my problems were over. Wrong! There are a slew of other issues with sobriety, and they`re all laid out in my book. I`m sure you`ll relate to some of them.
Now, up next on "issues," Drew Peterson`s lawyers want a change of venue for the suspected killer`s trial, claiming unfair media coverage. What? We will analyze that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In the spotlight tonight, an ISSUES exclusive about accused murderer and ex-cop Drew Peterson. The lawyers for this Illinois man, infamous for his bizarre and wildly inappropriate behavior, are said to ask for his murder trial to be moved to another county.
Drew was charged in the murder of his third wife, Kathleen Savio. He`s still a person of interest in the sudden and mysterious disappearance of wife No. 4, Stacy Peterson.
Drew`s attorney says the media attention is jeopardizing his right to a fair trial, but could Drew himself be the cause of that negative attention? You think? Listen to Drew talk to Matt Lauer on "The Today Show" about his behavior.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DREW PETERSON, ACCUSED OF EX-WIFE`S MURDER: There`s no book written on how I`m supposed to act. You know, I mean, would it be better if I hid my head down and tried to hide my face and haunched over and had tears in my eyes? I mean, no, that`s just not me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but what about him taking to his front yard with a video camera to videotape the media, creating a media circus? Should dodgy Drew get his murder trial moved?
Straight to the CNN legal analyst, bringing up this exclusive tonight, Lisa Bloom.
Lisa, thanks for joining us.
BLOOM: My pleasure.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You have had the exclusive rights to view this motion before it`s been filed. Nobody else has seen it. What can you tell us?
BLOOM: Well, that`s right, Jane. And I have it right here. It`s about to be filed tomorrow. I can tell you, it is detailed; it is thorough; it is voluminous.
I mean, the first thing to draw from all of this is that Drew Peterson`s attorneys are putting up a serious fight for the freedom of their client. They`re leaving no stone unturned. This is the first of a couple of big motions that they`re going to file.
And as you say, they want a change of venue. They want this thing out of Will County. That`s the county in Illinois that includes Chicago, and it includes Bolingbrook, where Drew Peterson lives, as well as Joliet, where he`s currently in jail. It, of course, would have to be somewhere else in Illinois.
And what they say is, look, Drew can`t get a fair trial in Will County. There has been so much media coverage. If you do a Google search, they say, you get almost 3 million hits for Drew Peterson, more, by the way, than you get for Jane Velez-Mitchell. I checked.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Way more, way more. Who wants that kind of notoriety?
BLOOM: Yes. That`s right, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
BLOOM: And on that point, they say that the coverage is overwhelmingly negative: out and out articles calling him a killer, saying that he`s guilty, saying that he`s guilty of homicide, of killing Kathleen Savio, his third wife. And so they say the trial has to be moved to ensure him a fair trial.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, look, Drew Peterson is not shielding himself from media attention. He calls local radio stations from behind bars and makes jokes. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How`s your love life?
PETERSON: My love life? I`ve got a lot of buddies here that are real anxious to, you know, wash my back in the shower, but you know, what`s that all about? You know, hey, I got it. You know, leave me alone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you enjoying the showers?
PETERSON: No, not at all. They`re cold.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How`s your bling? You get to wear bling every once in a while?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no.
PETERSON: I get my bling coming and going out of the courthouse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa, will a judge consider all that?
BLOOM: Yes. And by the way, that`s not mentioned in this motion. I`m sure in the prosecution`s response, that`s going to be brought up. But here`s what the defense would have to say about that. Drew Peterson has been the victim of such overwhelming negative media coverage that he`s trying to balance the scales by doing his own media appearances. He`s got a sense of humor. That shouldn`t be held against him.
Bottom line, I think his attorneys have clamped down on that kind of an interview, because they know in their heart of hearts, that is not helping Drew.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but you know what? All those shenanigans are keeping the case in the media, and that could be good for the attorneys. Hmm. Do the math. Follow the dots.
Lisa, thank you so much for that fantastic exclusive. Please come back to me with more of them.
Casey Anthony`s parents are back in the spotlight. Prosecutors grilling them today about their daughter`s murder charge. Are the Anthonys putting up a fight? We`ll tell you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Breaking updates in the Casey Anthony case: mom Cindy, grilled by state prosecutors for the second straight day. What are they trying to get out of her?
Then the furious search rages on for adorable 8-year-old Robert Manwill. Cops chase dozens of leads, but are left with no breakthroughs. Who took this cute little boy?
But first, the latest breaking developments in the Michael Jackson manslaughter probe; a slew of details coming to light about Dr. Conrad Murray and the frantic attempts, supposedly, to revive Michael Jackson. Jackson reportedly had no pulse and was not breathing when paramedics arrived at his home.
Captain Steve Ruda of the L.A. Fire Department shed some light on Dr. Murray`s actions to CNN`s Randi Kaye.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He took responsibility at the scene, this fire captain told me. He was in charge, he was calling the shots. He decided and determined that it was best to work on him there for those 42 minutes and try and get him breathing at the scene.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, more questions about the timing of the 911 call the paramedics responded to. It was placed at 12:22 p.m. L.A. time.
According to witnesses, three hours earlier, two women visited a Houston, Texas, storage unit that Dr. Murray had rented out. I spoke to TMZ`s Harvey Levin about this last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARVEY LEVIN, TMZ: They showed up at 9:22 Los Angeles time. It was 11:22 Houston time, the day Michael Jackson died, picked up four or five boxes and left. Now, it could be a remarkable coincidence, but, you know, one of the things we know police are looking at is, who told them to pick this stuff up?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And why? Straight out to my outstanding expert panel: Darren Kavinoky, criminal defense attorney; Dr. Cathleen London, board- certified family practice physician; and Jim Moret, attorney and chief correspondent for "Inside Edition."
We are trying, Jim, to take all these various strings and story lines and weave them into a coherent story and something`s not adding up, particularly when you add the chef (ph) thing.
Every morning, Dr. Murray would come downstairs carrying two oxygen tanks, but that morning he did not come down. And yet paramedics are only called at 12:22 p.m. L.A. time.
JIM MORET, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": Well, the troubling thing is that that last point is not inconsistent with what Harvey Levin said. What police are looking for and what they took yesterday at Dr. Murray`s home, they took a cell phone, took hard drives. They`re clearly looking for documentation. They`re going to be looking at phone records.
They`re going to find out if in fact Dr. Murray made a call to the two individuals who may have visited that storage facility. Because if he did, the implication is, he directed them to remove something, presumably regarding Michael Jackson. That would be a significant break and a significant problem for this doctor.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Dr. Cathleen London, I thought it was fascinating that paramedics had to sort of listen to Dr. Murray when they arrived, because he`s the doctor. And it`s kind of like the army, I guess, the higher the rank, the more authority you have.
DR. CATHLEEN LONDON, BOARD-CERTIFIED FAMILY PRACTICE PHYSICIAN: Yes. Even if, you know, EMTs are the ones that are in the field, you still have to go with the higher medical authority, in terms of if you`re at a code, meaning somebody stopped breathing or their heart stopped.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, you`re a doctor, would you have said work on him for 42 minutes with no pulse there, or would you have said, "Let`s go to the hospital right away?"
LONDON: I would have been working on him in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. That`s just the best way -- you have everything you need there. It doesn`t make sense. It makes no sense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So what are your thoughts about the fact that he insisted that they stay at the home, working on him for 42 minutes there with no pulse and no breathing, instead of doing that, going to the hospital?
LONDON: Desperation. He is a cardiologist, he was, I`m sure running the code, administering medications to try to get that heart to restart and using electricity, doing all those things.
You know, and you keep going that maybe this time is going to do it. There`s an order to how we run a code, and I can only think that he was just desperately trying to make this work.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, you`re thinking like a doctor and not necessarily like a detective.
And of course, we have to say, he`s not a suspect, he hasn`t been charged with anything. We invite him on to tell his side of the story. There may be a very innocent explanation for all of this. We haven`t heard what his side of the story is yet, entirely.
Darren Kavinoky, what about the idea that he had a lot of debt? We saw his Las Vegas mansion, very fancy place. It could be facing foreclosure. He is reportedly more than $100,000 behind on the mortgage. He had nearly $435,000 in judgments and liens against him in the last two years.
DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. And I`m going to try to stay away from my crystal ball in making predictions about whether or not Dr. Murray is going to be charged with manslaughter, although if he`s not at this point, the outcry may be deafening. But assuming that he is, it`s so funny, because when I have clients in my office, in my practice, sometimes I`m listening to them tell the story and I can hear my closing argument in my head.
And in this case, I`m hearing the prosecution`s opening statement right now. His financial problems caused him to get stars in his eyes and his medical judgment went out the window.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a fascinating story. A team of Hollywood script writers couldn`t come up with something half this fascinating.
Thank you, fantastic panel, for your insight. Come back soon.
Brand new developments tonight in the murder of 2-year-old Caylee Anthony allegedly killed by her own mother, Casey: today, for the second day in a row, Casey`s mom, Cindy, grilled for hours by prosecutors. The big question -- was Cindy, the temperamental deposition diva, that`s what we`ve been calling her, the deposition diva that she has been in the past. Her lawyer admits all this has been a real struggle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are your clients doing?
BRAD CONWAY, ANTHONY FAMILY ATTORNEY: They`re doing as well as can be expected; still struggling through it and they will for a long, long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey`s parents, George and Cindy, have been in the spotlight ever since precious Caylee went missing more than a year ago. Their emotional distress has been caught plenty of times on camera. They`ve been seen arguing with local protesters on their lawn, raising their voices at attorneys.
This sort of stress they say caused them both to contemplate killing themselves. How will these parents of the accused murderer fair during the upcoming murder trial? Will they help or hurt their daughter`s case?
Straight to Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor; plus, Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney; and by phone, Rozzie Franco, a reporter with WFLA 540 AM in Orlando Florida.
Rozzie, what have you learned about why authorities prosecuting Casey Anthony feel the need to grill her mom?
All right. Well, I can tell you that what I have learned is that they didn`t want to talk to her.
Stacey Honowitz, about the investigators who are associated with them and the fact that they, those investigators, were actually at the location where little Caylee`s body was ultimately found, significantly before the body was found, and they want to find out how it was that these investigators on the videotape that you`re looking at right now, were led to that very location.
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, of course they`re interested in that, that`s pertinent -- very, very important information as to whether or not they knew that the body was there. And where did they get that information from?
And I don`t even think, Jane, that that`s what they were just centering on. This mother is a crucial witness in the case. In the very beginning, when this case came out, people wanted to know if the mother would be called as a witness.
I can tell you that the prosecutors are extremely interested in her testimony, considering she`s the one that reported the child missing. So the investigator aspect of it, while very important, because they want to know what information she had, but leading up to it, why did she call the police, how long was the baby missing. What about that smell?
You remember that very, very pertinent interview she gave, when the cameras were in her face, and she said, oh, my God, it smells like a dead body. So all of these things are very important for the prosecutors to investigate and that`s why they wanted to grill her, and that`s why it`s taking so long.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve seen Cindy lose her cool in the past when she was questioned in the Zanny the Nanny civil suit against her daughter back in May. She exploded when asked why she did not search for her missing granddaughter, Caylee. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Casey came home, that she changed the version of events that you understood about Sawgrass apartments...
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: I`m done. I`ve already answered the question. She`s not the one. I`m done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me just say this for the record.
ANTHONY: I don`t need to mike anything. I never agreed to have a mike on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. Ma`am.
ANTHONY: I`m not miking up. Someone touches me, I`m going to file harassment charges, if someone`s touching me. I`m not miking up. I`ll talk loud enough that you can [bleep] hear me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that`s why she earned the nickname, deposition diva.
Jayne Weintraub, in all seriousness, if you sass a private attorney, that`s one thing, but if you do that to a state prosecutor, it can come back to haunt you, can it not?
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Not really. This is a contentious case, and we`ve all tried -- Stacey and I have both been involved in these kinds of cases.
And sadly, don`t forget, this is the woman who`s being deposed, it`s her daughter that`s on trial now for murder. And that civil lawsuit, that guy was way out of line in my opinion.
And if I were the lawyer representing Mrs. Anthony during that, I would have probably stopped it, certified the question, asked to get the judge on the phone and said, listen, "my client has said she`s not referencing nor is she talking about your client. This is a defamation suit. You`re trying to get ammunition to selling a book about the murder trial and put my daughter in an electric chair and you civil lawyers are trying to make money and I`m not going to let that happen."
She was perfectly within her right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey Honowitz, this is what I don`t understand, Stacey. What I don`t understand is that they`re the prosecution. And the parents are on the side of their daughter, obviously, clearly, by their own admission, they`re on her side. So if the prosecution calls Cindy to the stand, she automatically becomes a hostile witness, right?
HONOWITZ: Yes, absolutely. (INAUDIBLE) And the bottom line is, the prosecutors will use every statement she ever made prior to the statement in court against her.
So while she is the mother of the defendant in this case. Her testimony is hostile, allowing the prosecutors -- allowing the prosecutors to impeach her with everything she said before. And then a jury will get a sense of why she`s changing her story.
And her demeanor on the stand, you know, can go both ways too. A prosecutor will probably welcome this type of behavior, because it turns a jury off. But a jury could also say, listen, like Jayne said, she`s the mother of the defendant and we can see why she`d be acting that way.
WEINTRAUB: But Stacey you`re right also.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s it. We`re out of time. Come back. We`re going to obviously debate that story again.
Now to a very gruesome story: a pregnant woman brutally murdered -- it`s hard to say this -- the fetus cut...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: An adorable 8-year-old boy, missing since Friday -- I will have an update on the frantic search for him.
But first, "Top of the Block" tonight: an utterly horrific case. This one is truly sick and totally demented. A pregnant woman was found dead in her Massachusetts apartment, the fetus cut from her womb. Cops are now racing to find the missing baby which may still be alive.
The victim, 23-year-old Darlene Hayes, a mother of three, she was eight months pregnant when her mutilated body was found dead. Cops have questioned the alleged father of the unborn child.
Back in June, he allegedly pushed Haynes into a glass table, grabbed her by the throat and slapped her. No surprise, Haynes got a restraining order against him. The landlord said that man, Roberto Rodriguez, moved out of Haynes apartment last month. Again, he`s not a suspect. Cops have not made any arrests.
We`re going to stay on top of that story. That is tonight`s "Top of the Block."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And tonight, a heart-stopping twist in the frantic search for an adorable Idaho-boy, missing since Friday. The stunning new information involves 8-year-old Robert Manwill`s mom and his infant half- brother. It turns out the infant was removed from the mother`s custody by the state. More on that in just a moment.
Little Robert, meanwhile, was last seen leaving his mom`s Boise, Idaho apartment complex at about 9:30 Friday night. He lives with his dad. Mom has visitation rights. As cops continue to comb the community for clues, the little boy`s aunt pleads for his safe return.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRISH BURRILL, MISSING BOY`S AUNT: This is Robert`s bear, that has always been close to his heart. And our family would love to reunite them together. Please do what you can to help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why is the aunt talking? Where is the missing boy`s mom?
The "Idaho Statesman" newspaper says the mom is on probation for fracturing the skull of the missing boy`s infant half-brother. The paper says mom, Melissa Scott Jenkins, pleaded guilty in March to a misdemeanor charge of injury to a child after that incident, the skull fracture last October.
Also, the mom`s boyfriend has been convicted of battery and the missing child`s dad has already lost a 4-year-old son, stabbed to death in 1993 by his first wife. The paper says the family won`t comment.
Police say there`s no evidence of foul play in little Robert`s disappearance and the family is cooperating fully.
What do you think? Give me a shout out. Look at that beautiful young boy.
Straight out to my amazing expert panel: back with us, Steve Kardian, a former criminal investigator and director of Defend University; and joining us again, Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor; and we also have Kirsten Tronston (ph), a reporter for KBCI in Boise.
Kirsten, what is the very latest?
KIRSTEN TRONSTON, REPORTER, KBCI BOISE: Tonight, the search is wrapping up here with still no sign of the missing Robert Manwill. Earlier today at a press conference held by police, they put out the call again. They`re looking for up to 1,000 volunteers to come here on Friday and canvass this area for any sign of Robert.
Right now they`ve been sort of searching a one and a half mile radius around Robert`s mom`s apartment. That is where he was last seen on Friday. But -- or excuse me, on Monday, but on Friday, they plan to expand that search to make it even larger, and hit up areas that haven`t been searched yet in this case.
Now, police continue to say right now there`s no suspects, there`s no persons of interest and there`s no evidence of foul play. But Robert is considered an endangered missing child. Police say that`s because of his age and the length of time, five days now, that he has been missing.
Now, we also asked police, you know, could he have gone somewhere else. And police says evidence indicates they believe that Robert is still in this area. You might want to know, ok so what is that evidence? Well, we tried to ask police, they`re being very tight-lipped about that, but they say that`s why they`re continuing just to focus on the search right in this Boise area and around his mom`s apartment complex.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well Steve -- thank you so much, excellent update. Steve Kardian, how would authorities know that -- to believe that this young boy is still in the area? I mean, that`s to me, very perplexing that they could reach that conclusion?
STEVE KARDIAN, DIRECTOR, DEFEND UNIVERSITY: I don`t know how they`ve reached that conclusion, Jane, but they`re doing a good job. Authorities, they have the National Guard involved, you have the FBI; they`re doing spot checks. They have a special crew that`s going to go into the rough terrain.
But there`s three things that concern me here. Number one, we`re beyond that critical 72-hour period in which the boy has gone missing. And number two, he`s vanished out of thin air. And number three, the criminal history and backgrounds of the people that he was staying with.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes and let`s go into that a little bit more and get Stacey Honowitz`s the Florida prosecutors reaction to this.
Robert Manwill has been missing as we`ve saying since Friday night. As the clock ticks on, the aunt has been the public face of this family. Listen to her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURRILL: I just want to again say that we are a united family. We appreciate the press keeping our privacy.
Come and help us with the volunteer efforts. We appreciate everyone in the community and thank you -- thank you so much for all of your support.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, the "Idaho Statesman" reporting that Robert`s family is a tale of abuse tragedy.
As we said, Robert`s mom on probation for fracturing the skull of Robert`s infant half brother. Mom`s boyfriend convicted of battery, possession of drug paraphernalia and is court-ordered not to be alone with Robert`s half sister.
Stacey Honowitz, this is very disturbing stuff. As a prosecutor what would be going through your mind in terms of this investigation?
HONOWITZ: You`re right Jane, it is extremely disturbing. Unfortunately, we see so much of this -- we don`t hear a lot about it on the news, but I see so much of it where I practice.
And the bottom line is, what the investigators have to do what`s crucial in this case, is to investigate the background of everybody that`s been involved, especially in this case where you have so much criminal history.
You have a mother who is on probation and we don`t know who she hangs out with. We have -- a father who`s not allowed, whose wife stabbed the younger brother.
(CROSS TALK) VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, hey hang on there Stacey. We`re going to be right back with more on this harrowing gut-wrenching case in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURRILL: We just want to say that all we want to do is bring Robert home. So please, if you know anything or if you`ve seen anything contact the police department and help us find Robert.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The family of an adorable 8-year-old Idaho boy missing since Friday pleads for his safe return -- our hearts go out to them.
Let`s hope something that something we say here today will trigger something and will help solve this case. That`s our prayer, certainly.
Phone lines lighting up.
Toula in Michigan, your thought or question ma`am?
TOULA, MICHIGAN (via telephone): I represent a large following who loves you, Jane. We love you, we never miss your show. We`re animal lovers...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, thank you.
TOULA: ...thank you. Gob bless you for being on this show.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
TOULA: Anyway we want to tell you we`ve never miss you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok, but...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I believe the mother is guilty because she`s already punished her other child and only got a misdemeanor. It should have been a felony I think. So...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, well, ma`am, thank you for your all comments, but we have to be very, very careful here Stacey, in saying she is not a suspect. The family is cooperating. And we`d love to hear from her if she would like come on and talk about her son.
We can never jump to conclusions, Stacey. The first rule of journalism and I would think detective work, is never assume.
HONOWITZ: Oh absolutely, but I think what your caller -- you`re viewers -- all they hear is that the child came from a history of violence in the house. And so naturally, I think the inclination is for somebody to say well, maybe it`s the mother because -- maybe the mother was involved in something before. But you`re right, we absolutely cannot jump.
But I`ll tell you one thing, those investigators are looking at that case very carefully. And they are investigating the criminal history of the mother, the mother`s friends, the boyfriend, the father, anybody who`s involved with that child that has got a criminal history. They are looking at very carefully, but we don`t know how much involvement the mother`s had.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now Steve Kardian, what do authorities do in a situation like this? Do they ask for a polygraph of the family members?
KARDIAN: Yes Jane, it`s only reasonable that they`re going to -- going to look very closely at the people that were very close to him because we know from studies that have been done that less than one half of one percent are the atypical stranger abduction and at the rest of the time, it`s someone very close to the child.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey Honowitz, what about the fact that cops have interviewed more than 100 registered sex offenders living within two miles of the home. I`m so astounded that there`s a 100 registered sex offenders within two miles of anybody`s home.
HONOWITZ: I`ll tell you something very interesting, what a lot of people don`t know is most counties, most cities have registration requirements. They have zoning requirements and so consequently, a lot of sex offenders migrate to one area because that`s the only area where they are allowed to stay.
So that`s what happens and that`s the first place to go. Go interview those guys.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, fabulous panel. Thanks for explaining that, Stacey.
You`re watching ISSUES on HLN.
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