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American Morning
Terror Suspect's Wife Counters Government's Accusations; Obama Will Discuss Health Care with Supermarket Employees; Sen. Wyden Doesn't Support Public Option
Aired July 29, 2009 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. It is Wednesday. We've just about hit the top of the hour, it's July 29th. I'm Carol Costello, in for Kiran this morning.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good to see you this morning, Carol. I'm John Roberts. And here's what's on this morning's agenda. The stories that will be breaking down for you in the next 15 minutes.
A shock out of North Carolina. A group of Americans is accused of plotting a violent jihad overseas. Seven suspects are now in custody. The FBI hunting for yet another. The group's alleged ring leader looks like a regular Joe. His wife is talking exclusively with CNN. We'll take you live to Raleigh, North Carolina this morning.
COSTELLO: Grocery shoppers in Bristol, Virginia are going to get a lot more than bread and milk today. They'll get the president, too. He is hitting the road, taking his healthcare debate to a supermarket there. We're also answering your questions about the president's plan and breaking down the politics on Capitol Hill.
ROBERTS: And federal agents raided the Las Vegas home and medical clinic of Michael Jackson's personal physician. Dr. Conrad Murray allegedly gave him the drug Propofol before Jackson died. This morning, we are getting an up close look at the powerful anesthetic at work in a hospital setting.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA (on camera): OK. So the Propofol -
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're going to get a little sleepy. Take in some good, deep breaths.
GUPTA: So watch this go and take a look at his eyes - how quickly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deep breaths. Doing great. May feel a little burning. OK?
GUPTA: Ten, nine, eight --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Nighty night, Benson. Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes us up close and inside his O.R.. You've got to see this one. The Obama administration is talking about a new strategy for preventing terrorist attacks. This morning, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano will unveil the president's plan in a speech in New York City. It includes: more training for police to report suspicious behavior, working more closely with other countries, and sharing airline passenger information and intelligence about potential plots.
The Obama battle plan is, in large part, refining and expanding initiatives that were launched by the Bush administration. All of this as the FBI hunts for an eighth suspect in an alleged homegrown terror plot for a violent jihad overseas.
Seven men in the Raleigh, North Carolina area are in custody right now. Investigators say the group's ring leader, Daniel Boyd, led a double life. He hung drywall for a living by day, and at the same time, was recruiting others willing to die as martyrs.
But his wife, who spoke exclusively to CNN, is telling a far different story.
Our homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve is on the story. She's in Raleigh, North Carolina, live for us this morning.
Hi, Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Hi, John.
Now, Daniel Boyd was a U.S. citizen. He's a son of a U.S. marine. But prosecutors allege he was at the center of this conspiracy to wage jihad overseas and they say two of the young men in the Raleigh area he recruited were his own sons.
Now the mother of those boys, the wife of Daniel Boyd -- her name is Sabrina Boyd -- is now offering explanations to counter the accusations being made by the government.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice-over): Daniel Boyd fought in Afghanistan in the early 1990s, but had settled in bucolic Willow Spring, North Carolina. He and his two sons were among seven people arrested Monday on terrorism charges. His wife, Sabrina tells CNN they are innocent.
SABRINA BOYD, WIFE OF DANIEL BOYD: I know that my husband and my sons are free of guilt and I'm hopeful that the truth will come to light.
MESERVE: In court documents, the government says the group stockpiled a cache of high-powered weapons. Boyd's wife says they were only responding to news reports that guns and ammunition were becoming scarce.
BOYD: We'll say that we do have -- we do own guns in our homes as our constitutional right allows us. And I don't think there's a crime in that. MESERVE: The government says the group trained for jihad in rural North Carolina. But Sabrina Boyd says her husband was just helping his Boy Scout sons with marksmanship.
BOYD: It's one of the merit badges they use, you know, to become an Eagle Scout. And -- so, it wouldn't be beyond the pale for him to take him out and do target practice. It's not unusual.
MESERVE: The government alleges Boyd and one of his sons travel to Israel to wage holy war. But Boyd's wife says they just wanted to pray in Jerusalem for another son who had died in a car crash. Since their arrest, she has not been able to talk to her husband or older son and the strain is showing.
BOYD: And I just want to say that I'm very proud to be Muslim and I'm very proud to be married to Daniel Boyd and I'm very proud of my children.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: Now, Sabrina Boyd alleges that on Monday, an acquaintance of the family showed up on her doorstep in a bloody shirt with a state policeman. They told her there had been another bad car crash, this one involving her husband and son. She says that she, her daughter and daughter-in-law all went to the hospital where she says she was handcuffed and interrogated, treated rudely.
She calls this a dirty trick. She says it was all part of a ruse to make it easier for law enforcement to search their house. We contacted the FBI about this. They said they cannot comment on anything pertaining to this investigation.
John, back to you.
ROBERTS: When are the court appearances scheduled for, Jeanne?
MESERVE: They are scheduled for tomorrow. And it is possible that we'll learn more about this conspiracy tomorrow. It depends probably on whether the judge asks for more evidence to support what we expect to be a request from the government that these individuals be held without bond.
ROBERTS: Jeanne Meserve on the story for us this morning in Raleigh -- Jeanne, thanks so much.
Tomorrow on AMERICAN MORNING: Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano joins us -- that will be in our 8:00 hour -- to talk about the administration's new strategy for fighting terrorism.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Attention shoppers -- today's special? A health care discussion with the president of the United States. President Obama's back on the road today pushing health care reform at a town hall in Raleigh, North Carolina, then, at a meeting with supermarket employees at a Kroger in Bristol, Virginia.
Senior White House correspondent Ed Henry is live in Bristol from the produce section.
And, Ed, what kind of welcome can the president expect at this Kroger?
ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, few people probably know I started -- my first job was in a grocery store. So, this is a homecoming for me.
And what the president is going to find -- a pretty warm welcome from employees here. They've been working all night to get this place ready. And what's significant is these Kroger employees have health insurance. And the president has been trying to tailor his sales pitch to people who have insurance.
And the assumption back in Washington among the president's critics has been people with insurance don't want to pay higher taxes to cover the uninsured. We found that assumption may just be not true.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (voice-over): They're rolling out the red carpet in rural Virginia. But the president could get a chilly reception in the frozen food aisle, where we found clerk, Phil Younce, a McCain voter who fears health reform is being rushed just like the stimulus.
PHIL YOUNCE, FROZEN FOOD CLERK, KROGER SUPERMARKET: Like the last package that he pushed through, I think it was too hurried, and a lot of mistakes, a lot of things that shouldn't be.
HENRY: But Cathy Montgomery, assistant produce manager voted for the president, and is pumped out he's getting tough with Congress.
CATHY MONTGOMERY, ASST. PRODUCE MANAGER, KROGER SUPERMARKET: I like the fact he's stepped up and he's being aggressive. I really do. I mean, I'm just -- I'm all for that.
HENRY: Thousands in this region showed up at a health expo offering free medical care this past weekend, exposing a problem all too familiar to doctors here.
DR. BENNETT COWAN, JR., HOSPICE MEDICAL DIRECTOR: Clearly, we all recognize, any physician in the hospital would recognize that it's a system in crisis.
HENRY: But like most employees back at the Kroger Supermarket, produce manager Steve Shipplett gets generous health benefits. Despite being an Obama voter, he's nervous those benefits might be taxed to cover the uninsured and is demanding more specifics from the president.
STEVE SHIPPLETT, PRODUCE MANAGER, KROGER SUPERMARKET: He's going to have to spit out some numbers and let the public know exactly what it's going to cost them and what they're going to have to give up.
HENRY: Shipplett says, if the president steps out and sells it, then he's willing to step up himself.
SHIPPLETT: You got to do something and if it means me paying those taxes to get this reform through, then I begrudgingly do it, yes.
HENRY: And back in the frozen food aisle, this Republican is ready to do his share, too.
YOUNCE: No matter what kind of plan you're going to come up with, somebody has to pay for it. So, eventually, it comes down to us, the people that's working and paying taxes. We're going to have to pay for it one way or the other. I just hope we can come up with a plan that's worth paying for.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Now, it's important not, these employees told me they make less than $250,000 a year, the president has repeated his campaign promise, he's not going to raise taxes on people in that category . And there is one Senate plan right now kicking around an idea that would actually tax the insurance companies, not an individual beneficiary. Nevertheless, critics say look, the insurance companies will pass that on to the beneficiaries, they're going to pay higher premiums.
But these employees would tell me, look, we'll pay higher taxes, higher premiums, as long as the president spells it all out and as long as the rich pay their fair share, Carol.
COSTELLO: You know, it seems to me the people he's really got to convince are people who make above $250,000 a year. Would it be much more interesting if he held a town hall with them?
HENRY: It would be interesting. I think maybe he's starting maybe from the middle-class up in trying to tell people, look, if some of these folks who are making under $250,000 a year are willing to step up, maybe the rich have to do it as well. That obviously may be part of the message we'll hear from the White House.
Also, the president today, we're told by White House officials, will really stress what's in it for people who do have insurance right now. He's going to talk about how if they've got a preexisting condition insurance companies will no longer be able to deny it, show those kinds of tangible benefits that people who have insurance will get if there is reform, Carol.
COSTELLO: It should be interesting. And, you know, as we mentioned, the health care debate is dividing Democrats on Capitol Hill.
Coming up: We're talking to one who's really getting flack from the left -- Oregon Democrat Senator Ron Wyden joins us in about 10 minutes to tell us why he doesn't think the president's plan should include a public option.
ROBERTS: Other stories new this morning, just announced, Microsoft and Yahoo are teaming up to take on Google. This partnership gives Microsoft access to the Internet's second-largest search engine audience. Yahoo, meantime, hopes to recover some of the money that was squandered last year when it turned down a chance to sell the entire company to Microsoft for $47 billion.
COSTELLO: Wow!
Tanning beds just as deadly as arsenic and mustard gas -- a new study says ultraviolet radiation and sun lamps have been elevated to the highest cancer risk category. Researchers say people who start using tanning beds before the age of 30 increase their risk of cancer by 75 percent.
ROBERTS: Blue food dye, the kind they use in M&M's and Gatorade could one day help people recover from spinal cord injuries. In a study when rats got a dose of the dye, they were able to walk again, albeit with a limp. Right now, researchers are trying to get the FDA to allow crinkle trials on humans.
You know, the one problem with this is obviously your rat nose turns blue and so do your little fingers. But, you know, so many things are successful in rats that just cannot be duplicated in humans. I remember, I went to Mass General Hospital, Doctor Charles McKinney (ph) was doing experimentation growing cells and implanting them in rats. And he was pretty good at curing a rat that had a section in the spinal column taken out, but when it comes to humans, it's a whole different ball game.
COSTELLO: It's hard to do testing on humans to see if it really works, too. I mean, that's difficult.
ROBERTS: Yes. But I'll tell you, you know, if it did heal spinal cord injuries, I'd deal with the blue nose, no problem.
COSTELLO: Yes, absolutely.
You know, we've been talking a lot about Colin Powell. He was on "LARRY KING LIVE" and he gave a fascinating interview. He talked about Professor Gates and how Professor Gates could have been more patient in his altercation with the police officer in Cambridge. You'll hear Mr. Powell talk about his own experience racism in just a couple of minutes.
Eleven minutes past the hour now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the "Most News in the Morning."
President Obama is hitting the road again today with his push for health care reform. But on Capitol Hill, the plans are hitting several road blocks. Democrats are divided over rising costs and how to pay the bill. One Senate Democrat from Oregon, Ron Wyden, is really catching heat from his own party because he wants to scrap the idea of a government-backed public option. Why?
Senator Wyden joins me now live from Washington to answer that question.
Senator, we're talking off-cam (ph). You are taking a lot of heat from the left-wing of the party from this idea that your plan which you crafted of Senator Bennett, the Republican side, from Utah, doesn't have a public option in it. Why do you not think it's necessary to have a public option?
SEN. RON WYDEN (D), OREGON: John, I'm certainly willing to look at a public option. In fact, I'm willing to look at anything that controls costs. Now, we have 15 sponsors of our bill, nine of them are Democrats.
It is the first legislation that the budget office says actually doesn't add to the deficit. And the reason it doesn't is because we're promoting free choice. We give everybody a chance -- just like members of Congress do -- to go to one of these farmer's markets -- they call it an exchange -- get access to a big group where they have bargaining power so they can hold their costs down.
ROBERTS: But many people will say, you know, without a public option, how do you insure the uninsured? And there are about 47 million of those people in the country right now.
WYDEN: You've got to make some tough choices. And when you're for reform, everybody takes you on. What we do in our legislation, though, is we strangle administrative costs.
For example, small businesses -- and that's where most of the uninsured are -- they're having a lot of difficulty getting insurance coverage because their administrative costs can be 30 percent. So, we end that. We outlaw insurance company cherry-picking. All those workers at small businesses go in to big groups, they have a lot more bargaining power, they sign up once, their coverage is portable.
That's how you hold down costs without requiring new taxes to pay for the uninsured.
ROBERTS: So, Senator, if this is such a good idea, why is the "gang of six" in the finance committee not discussing your idea, they've got their own plan that they're pushing?
WYDEN: First of all, they are looking at a proposal. We call it free choice, which is at the heart of our legislation. And you can even do it without changing the tax laws. In effect, what we say is, let's give more options to both employers and employees. Let's give them free choice.
For example, right now a lot of workers and a lot of employers aren't even going to be able to go to these farmer's markets, these exchanges. They set up fire walls. They're going to restrict people's choices.
We say that if an employer wants to take all of their workers to an exchange, and that's employer-sponsored insurance, the employer could get a discount. That's playing hardball with the insurance companies.
ROBERTS: So, your plan right now would call for a tax on employer-based health care benefits. And this is something that the White House has said that it doesn't really think is a great idea. But as you pointed out, the Congressional Budget Office says that yours is revenue-neutral, doesn't add to the deficit.
How do you convince the president that it is a good idea to tax employer-based health care?
WYDEN: Our free choice proposal that I just described has been scored by an independent authority as saving $360 billion for the health care system over the next 10 years. If you do want to look at changing the health care tax rules -- and I do -- go with the proposal that gives working class people a tax cut.
For example, the president's going to be at that supermarket today. Under our proposal, most of those workers are going to get a tax cut. What we do is we provide an above-the-line tax credit or deduction. Say, you make it $18,000; those workers are spending $13,000, $14,000 on their health care. When they shop, they're actually going to get a tax cut. They're going to get money in their pocket.
ROBERTS: As you said, you've got a bipartisan group of sponsors behind your bill. You also -- you co-authored it with Senator Bennett from Utah, Republican from Utah. We've got the finance committee with a bipartisan group that's trying to hammer out a Senate bill. But over in the House, it's the Democrats against the Republicans.
Do you believe that you can get health care without bipartisan support or do you need to have the support of Republicans for a plan?
WYDEN: If you want to make health reform stick, if you want enduring change that the country rallies to, you ought to make it bipartisan. It is going to bring the country together. The fact is on health reform, both sides have some valid points.
My party is absolutely right, you cannot fix this system unless everybody has good quality, affordable care. Otherwise, you just have the uninsured shifting their bills to the insured.
The Republicans have some valid points about making sure that there are choices, that you don't freeze innovation. That's why we have 15 sponsors in the United States Senate, nine of them Democrats, for a proposal that the budget office says will make sure that everybody in this country has quality, affordable choices, like members of Congress, without adding to the deficit.
ROBERTS: Quick question if I could, Senator. Harry Reid says that he's going to get some sort of agreement by the recess next Friday. Do you agree with that?
WYDEN: That's my first choice. People are putting in killer hours, sometimes I think they're being fed intravenously, some of my colleagues. But what I'll tell you, the test is not just getting a deal. The test is making sure the deal is real reform, the elements that I've outlined here on the show, particularly promoting free choice, more options for both employers and employees, is what is really going to make health care affordable.
ROBERTS: So, again, one-word answer -- deal by next Friday? Yes or no?
WYDEN: Absolutely. We're going to stay -- we're going to stay on it. And as far as I'm concerned, we ought to cancel the August recess to get it.
ROBERTS: OK. Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon, it's good to talk to you. Thanks so much.
WYDEN: Thank you, John.
ROBERTS: Carol?
COSTELLO: Oh, he was positive!
You know, there's been a lot of allegations coming out that Michael Jackson died from a dose of Propofol, a very powerful drug that knocks you out before surgery. Well, Dr. Sanjay Gupta will take us into his operating room to show you how a doctor in surgery uses that drug to put a patient under for surgery. Fascinating stuff.
It's 19 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC)
ROBERTS: (INAUDIBLE) 22 minutes after the hour.
We've been talking a lot in the last few days about the drug Propofol or Diprivan, as it's known, that Michael Jackson's doctor allegedly gave him before he died.
COSTELLO: And you've heard it a lot. Doctors say it's dangerous to use outside of a hospital setting.
Well, our Dr. Sanjay Gupta is taking us inside his O.R. for a close look at someone actually going under with that powerful anesthetic.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John and Carol.
A lot of discussion regarding Propofol. What exactly is it? What does it do to the body? And could it ever be considered safe outside a hospital?
I'm going to take you inside my operating room to give you an idea of what really happens. Take a look.
So we are here inside the operating room with Dr. Gershon. He's the chief of anesthesiology here. Propofol is a medication he uses all the time.
Is this it right over here?
DR. RAPHAEL GERSHON, CHIEF OF ANESTHESIOLOGY, GRADY MEMORIAL HOSPITAL: Yes.
GUPTA: It looks like milk of amnesia, they call it.
GERSHON: Milk of Amnesia. Benson, you OK?
We have to monitor his EKG. We have to monitor his end-tidal CO2. We have to make sure that he's breathing. We got to see his saturation. We have to make sure he's ventilating.
GUPTA: So these are all -- that's all typical stuff.
GERSHON: Standard of care. Yes.
GUPTA: OK. So the Propofol...
GERSHON: We're going to start infusing this.
You're going to get a little sleepy, Benson. OK? Give me some good, deep breaths.
GUPTA: We just go and take a look at his eyes, how quickly he's...
GERSHON: Deep breaths, Benson. Doing great. May feel a little burning, OK?
GUPTA: Ten, nine...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Deep breath.
GUPTA: ... eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one.
GERSHON: There's a reason for his heart rate increasing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE).
GUPTA: So, what's...
GERSHON: As you see, his eyes just closed.
GUPTA: His eyes closed. And what else are you going to perform?
GERSHON: He stopped breathing. So, this is watching his end- tidal CO2. And he's not breathing anymore. And my wonderful (INAUDIBLE) is going to help him breathe.
GUPTA: We'll take a look over here. All the breathing right now is taking place with this bag and this mask. For that medication, he wouldn't be able to breathe on his own without those things.
And there you can see part of the problem. Just with that much Propofol there, he stopped breathing and he's going to need a breathing tube.
GERSHON: Easy?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Easy?
GUPTA: What's so attractive about this medication?
GERSHON: Well, (INAUDIBLE) has really been in the advent in the last 10 years or so, even more, 15 years. And it's just basically a quick-on, quick-off. That may answer why people may think that this is something they could do at home, because if it gets out of hand, it goes away quickly. The problem is it gets out of hand and there's nobody there to resuscitate you, then nobody can bring you back.
GUPTA: That was -- that was pretty quick. You just made some of the medication, you're going to...
(CROSSTALK)
GERSHON: Five, 10 minutes.
GUPTA: Five, 10 minutes, he's gone from being completely awake to completely asleep.
GERSHON: He's not breathing. I'm breathing for him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA: You know, it's interesting. Obviously, Propofol is a medication use thousands of times in operating rooms, but not just operating rooms, also in medical outpatient settings. We've talked to doctors, like Dr. Gershon there, they say they had not heard of it ever being used in the home.
As far as that patient Benson today, he did just fine from that operation. And he woke up very quickly after the Propofol was stopped. That's one of the attractive things. People go to sleep quickly and they wake up quickly.
ROBERTS: And you can see, Sanjay, because he stopped breathing after that initial injection, that, you know, the safety window is very narrow with a drug like that. It's not a controlled substance, like other sedatives and many pain medications. Does that open the door for abuse?
GUPTA: Well, it is interesting. I'll tell you, John, I've learned a lot about this medication over the past several weeks. It is not a controlled substance. It was just sitting out there in the operating room. It wasn't behind a glass-locked door or anything like many other medications are. So, you can just grab it and walk out with it.
As far as abuse goes, it's been a hot topic of discussion among the medical community. We haven't heard about it being abused by patients as much, but it has been abused by medical professionals. In fact, a study came out that said one in five academic training programs reported at least one case of a doctor having abuse of this particular medication and possibly sometimes leading to some sort of disciplinary action.
So, it has been happening out there. We talked to Dr. Gershon specifically about this and I said, "Why abuse this drug? It is not necessarily a sleep medication. It's sort of more of a hypnotic." And he just didn't know why someone would abuse this, what they get out of that.
ROBERTS: Yes, you know, I've done a lot of reading on it in the last couple of days, too. And I've found several cases, Sanjay, where people who -p these were doctors who were abusing this drug. They give themselves the initial shot, they give themselves a little bit too much, they stop breathing and they die.
GUPTA: It has happened and, you know, if you're in a hospital setting where you have monitors and stuff like that, you can possibly be resuscitated. But you're absolutely right, if it's un-witnessed, no one is around, it can be a real problem.
ROBERTS: Wow. Got to be careful with that.
Sanjay Gupta, fascinating look. Thanks for joining us this morning, Doc. Really appreciate it.
GUPTA: Thanks, John. Thank you.
COSTELLO: Really interesting.
Coming up in a few minutes at 8:30 Eastern, we'll talk about developments in the Michael Jackson investigation with "Inside Edition" correspondent Jim Moret. And we'll ask him what kind of equipment was in Michael Jackson's bedroom. You know, because this doctor allegedly gave him Propofol.
ROBERTS: Then, you know, in the operating room, you've got an EKG, heart monitor, a brain scan on the guy and they were following the respiration. So, obviously, you need to monitor this very, very, very closely.
COSTELLO: Yes. We'll explore all of that.
It's 26 minutes past the hour.
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: Just about 30 minutes past the hour.
Checking our top stories now.
Iran's state news agency says about 20 antigovernment protestors will be put on trial Sunday. And those who ordered the post-election unrest will be put on trial later. The government released 140 people yesterday.
ROBERTS: New York City is buying expensive airline tickets to places like Paris and Johannesburg, South Africa for hundreds of homeless families. They are one-way tickets out. So far, 550 homeless families have agreed to leave New York permanently. All they needed to get a free airline ticket was a relative who agreed to take them in. It costs $36,000 a year to shelter a homeless family. So, the program is actually saving the city a substantial amount of money.
COSTELLO: Wow. And charges this morning that a little boy was at the controls of a New York City subway train. Reports say a rider claims he saw the operator watching and telling the child how to drive the train. New York City transit officials confirm an operator and a conductor have been suspended without pay -- and, yes, they are investigating claims that an unauthorized person was allowed to operate the train.
Authorities now stepping up their investigation of Michael Jackson's live-in doctor, Conrad Murray, who was with Jackson when he died. Police in the DEA searched Murray's Las Vegas home and medical office Tuesday, confiscating papers, computer hard drives and cell phones, and they say they were looking for medical records, quote, "relating to Michael Jackson and all of his reported aliases."
"Inside Edition" chief correspondent Jim Moret is following the case closely. He joins us live now from Los Angeles. Good morning, Jim.
JIM MORET, INSIDE EDITION CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
COSTELLO: So -- I named some of the things that police were looking for. What other things -- and actually, what did they find? Let's start there.
MORET: Well, they left with manila envelopes, they left with a cell phone, they left with computer hard drives.
And you're right, they're looking for basically a paper trail. They're looking for something to establish a chain of events that leads up to Michael Jackson's death.
We believe that Propofol was one of the drugs that was in Michael Jackson's system when he died. The autopsy report hasn't come out yet, so we can't be definitive on that. But the doctor did reportedly tell police that he administered this drug to Jackson the morning before he died.
So they want to see if there are any records of how this doctor came in possession of it, are there lot numbers, are there purchase orders, did he have any correspondence with Michael Jackson, what phone calls did he make the morning of Michael Jackson's death -- all of these things, so they can piece together a timeline of what happened and when.
But the investigation really goes beyond that. This is the second search in just a week of Dr. Murray. There was a search in Texas last week. This was of his home and Las Vegas office. Last week it was his medical office in Texas. And it's really, frankly, expanding to other doctors as well.
COSTELLO: Let's talk about the Propofol in Michael Jackson's system, because just a couple of minutes ago, Dr. Sanjay Gupta showed us how Propofol is usually administered in a hospital with monitors all around. I mean, it is a very complicated procedure.
So, Dr. Murray allegedly administered this dose of Propofol in Michael Jackson's bedroom. What was in there? I know there are some reports there were oxygen tanks in the bedroom, but what else was in Michael Jackson's bedroom to make it possible for this doctor to allegedly inject Michael Jackson with this drug?
MORET: Well, you're hitting on something that's very important. It's possible to inject him with the drug. The question is, did they have what was necessary to inject him safely?
And the only thing reported so far in the bedroom are oxygen tanks and the I.V. What's missing in these descriptions are the various items that doctors would need to monitor oxygen, blood flow, respiration. And without those things, you could argue that you could not safely monitor anyone, let alone Michael Jackson.
This drug is very unusual in the sense that, while it's a legal drug, it is not legal to use outside of a hospital setting, because you can't get a prescription for it. That's the problem. And there's a very good reason for that. You need to carefully monitor the patient.
COSTELLO: Exactly. But let me ask you this, too. I want to get into this, too, because we on "American Morning" interviewed Dr. Murray's attorneys, and they were very specific about the doctor not injecting Demerol and OxyContin. They specifically mentioned those two drugs. They did not mention Propofol.
What does that say to you about what kind of defense they might be preparing for Dr. Murray?
MORET: What it says is that the first drugs that investigators were looking for is Demerol and OxyContin because it's believed that Michael Jackson was using a combination of drugs. Propofol hadn't even come to the forefront yet.
Dr. Murray himself reportedly told investigators he gave this drug, and we know that Cherilyn Lee, the nutritionist who worked with Michael Jackson, received a phone call from him four days before he died begging for this substance. That redirected the focus on Diprivan, on Propofol. The doctor was, as you say, through his lawyer, very specific about what he didn't give him, and he also said that he didn't give him anything that should have caused death.
In a perfect setting, that's probably true. But the wild cards here are what exactly did the doctor do? Did he monitor Michael Jackson throughout the night? Did he fall asleep? Did he leave the room? Did he, in fact, give him too much? These are all questions that really investigators have to take their time in getting to the answer.
And the only person who can really answer most of those questions is Dr. Murray himself.
COSTELLO: I was wondering just if Dr. Murray says that he didn't know that Michael Jackson had these other drugs in his system, and he allegedly like administered this Propofol, which would kind of say to the doctor, well, if I had known Michael Jackson had these drugs in his system, I would have never done that.
MORET: You know, the doctor himself, through his attorney, said, why are you picking on this doctor? He was simply the last doctor standing when Michael Jackson died -- the implication being there are all these other doctors involved.
You know what? That doesn't get you off the hook in a legal setting. And this doctor can still be held liable and responsible criminally if in fact charges are filed for Michael Jackson's death, even if other doctors were involved in giving him other medications.
COSTELLO: Jim Moret, thanks so much for enlightening us this morning. We appreciate it.
ROBERTS: So we all know that the problem with obesity in this country, and then of course there are the attendant health care costs to take care of people who suffer obesity-related diseases.
Well, how to pay for all of that? Well, they're going to the tax well again. And wait until you hear what they want to tax.
It's 36 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Christine Romans is "Minding your Business" this morning.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I'm looking at some of the provisions and proposals that are in the committees about health care reform, and some of them have to do with taxing soda pop, for example, taxing those sorts of things three cents each.
There is an Urban Institute report that came out yesterday that says that taxing fattening foods could be a way to raise money for health care reform, could be a way to actually deter and dis- incentivize people from eating bad things for you. So listen, before I get all this e-mail about how I'm not being nice to people who are overweight, I want to be very clear, this is not going after people who are overweight. This is obesity. We're talking about obesity, which is a medical condition which can lead to diabetes, heart disease, it costs a lot for society, and it is not good for you.
It is just not a situation that you want to see as an epidemic in this country. And when you look at some of the statistics, including the National Center for Health Statistics, in 1960, 13.4 percent of American adults age 20 to 74 were obese. By 2015 that's targeted to be 40 percent.
Two-thirds of the American population is overweight. Overweight is one thing. Obesity is something that can lead to very serious health risks.
Now, here is the fat-food tax proposal. The Urban Institute says that they think that a 10 percent tax on food that is fattening and really just not good for you would come up with that much money, $530 billion over ten years. That would help pay for health care reform.
It would raise revenue, but it would also be -- think of it a lot like the tobacco taxes, right? It raised money, and also it pushed down rates of smoking, and that's the goal here.
And 24 percent of kids right now are obese. That's dangerous.
COSTELLO: The problem with that is the tax is going to affect mostly lower income families.
ROMANS: That's right.
COSTELLO: Because they are the ones -- they only have access to stores that sell these items.
ROMANS: That's right. And the CDC in its obesity conference this week said something very similar. So we have to figure out how to make sure that there are supermarkets and good foods in all neighborhoods.
There are absolute food deserts in some parts of the country where you can only get convenience food, you can't get anything fresh. And so that's something that has to be changed. And I don't know if taxing is how you to do.
The soda lobby, the American Beverage Institute told me yesterday that, frankly, soda sales are down 9 percent at the same time obesity is rising. So think of that.
ROBERTS: Do you have a "Romans numeral" for us this morning?
ROMANS: I do, and that number is 18, 18 minutes.
ROBERTS: It's about the number of minutes that are left in the program. ROMANS: Maybe. Nom, 18 minutes. That's how long you have to jog to jog off a soda, a can of pop, about 18 minutes of jogging.
ROBERTS: What's the calorie content?
ROMANS: This is 140. We used 150 calories, 163 pounds is the average size for a woman. So that's what we used.
This one is 2.5 servings in here, 240 calories. Some people drink this -- I'm not picking on this brand, by the way. There you go, 240 calories. You got to run off your Sprite.
COSTELLO: You could swim, though. And I only mention swimming because of the next story we have coming after the break. Did you see it?
ROMANS: No.
COSTELLO: The guy who was swimming in competition and his bum came out.
ROBERTS: He had a wardrobe malfunction?
COSTELLO: Jeanne moos did the funniest package on it. She did. It's a funny story. You have to see it. It's 42 minutes past the hour.
ROBERTS: Coming right up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: We are taking a look at New York City this morning, near Central Park. It's 78 degrees and cloudy. And later this afternoon there will be thunderstorms and 82 degrees.
And the weather of course is affecting the airports already. Right now there is a 30-minute airport delay, all the airports in New Jersey, Philadelphia, and Atlanta experiencing similar delays. So call ahead before you head out to the airport this morning.
ROBERTS: Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr., should he have been a little more patient? That opinion from former Secretary of State Colin Powell. He sat down for an exclusive interview last night with CNN's Larry King and he opened up with his own encounters with racial profiling in the wake of professor gates' arrest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: Are you saying Gates was wrong?
COLIN POWELL, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I'm saying that Skip perhaps in this instance might have waited a while, come outside, talked to the officer, and that might have been the end of it. I think he should have reflected on whether or not this was the time to make that big a deal. But he's just home from China, just home from New York. All he wanted to do was get to bed. His door was jammed. And so he was in the mood where he --
KING: What about those who say he brings the whole history into that body of a black movement?
POWELL: That may well be the case. But I still think it might well have been resolved in a different manner if we didn't have this verbal altercation between the two of them.
When you're faced with an officer trying to do his job and get to the bottom of something, this is not the time to get into an argument with them. I was taught that as a child. You don't argue with a police officer.
In fact, in our schools today, in order to make sure that we don't have things escalate out of control and lead to very unfortunate situations, we tell our kids, when you're being asked something by a police officer, being detained by a police officer, cooperate.
If you don't like what happened, or if you think that you have been exposed to something that's racist or prejudicial or something that's wrong, then you make a complaint afterwards and you sue them.
KING: Were you ever racially profiled?
POWELL: Yes, many times.
KING: And didn't you ever bring anger to it?
POWELL: Of course. But anger is best controlled. And sure, I got mad. I got mad when I -- as a national security advisor to the president of the United States, I went down to meet somebody at Reagan National Airport and nobody recognized -- nobody thought I could possibly be the national security advisor to the president.
I was just a black guy at Reagan National Airport. And it was only when I went up to the counter and said "Is my guest here who's waiting for me," did somebody say, "Oh, you're General Powell." It was inconceivable to him that a black guy could be the national security advisor.
KING: How do you deal with things like that?
POWELL: You just suck it up. What are you going to do? It was a teaching point for him. Yes, I'm the national security advisor, I'm black, and watch, I can do the job.
So you have this kind of -- there is no African-American in this country who has not been exposed to this kind of situation. Do you get angry? Yes. Do you manifest that anger? You protest. You try to get things fixed.
But it's kind of better course of action to take it easy and don't let your anger make the current situation worse. (END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Again, beer bonding tomorrow night at the White House. Love to be a fly on the wall for that, wouldn't you?
COSTELLO: Yes, I would, too. It will be an interesting picnic.
(LAUGHTER)
ROBERTS: A lot of health care plans making their way through Congress, some in the House, at least a couple in the Senate. So what do you make of all of these, and what do they mean for you?
Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta coming up. He's going to break it all down and answer your questions about the health care plans. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Welcome back to the most news in the morning.
Now in our in depth look at the health care reform debate. We want to bring in our own Dr. Sanjay Gupta to answer your questions about the plan.
ROBERTS: Doc, good morning to you. Lots of ground to cover with today's question. This is CNN iReporter Jason Rogers from San Antonio. Let's listen to what he asks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JASON ROGERS, CNN IREPORTER: Four years ago my father was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer, and for 18 months we fought that disease with everything that we had, because we felt like every day was precious, and we felt like every day that we kept him alive we were one day closer to a cue for that disease.
I guess my question is, under a public option or government-run health care system, would that type of care be possible? Is that something that ten years from now we're going to have to sacrifice or come up with a tremendous amount of cash to pay for it because it would be rationed into our government-run health care system?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Jason, first thanks for sharing the story. As you know, I'm a neurosurgeon, and there is a lot of progress being made in the world of brain cancer, but sometimes not nearly fast enough.
The issue you raised about rationing of health care really strikes at the heart of all this, because it talks about costs and access. The question is, would we have to ration health care in order to make sure everyone gets health care insurance?
It is a tough question to sort of delve into. But there was a "New York Times" editorial caught a lot of people's attention, it shocked some people, others said it was just the reality of what was necessary.
What Peter Singer, who is a professor of bioethics at Princeton says, the death of a teenager is a greater tragedy than the death of an 85-year-old, and this should be reflected in our priorities.
It gets at this idea that some lives more valuable than others and should we prioritize based on that. It is a really striking and sometimes scary concept.
Jason, we took your particular story directly to the White House to get an idea of how they would respond based on everything that's going on around health care reform.
Here's what they specifically said, "Our heart goes out to Jason and his family. We know that families across America are dealing with issues like this every day."
They go on to say "There are a number of bills making their way through Congress right now. But we do know this, the reform bill that the president signs will not lead to rationing. It will be fully paid for and will bring down costs over the long term."
And Jason, you've heard the president probably say that there will not be any discrimination based on who you are, what age you are, or what sort of preexisting condition you have. But that's sort of what's out there, guys.
ROBERTS: Sanjay, some critics say despite what the president intends to do, that the numbers just don't add up. Republican Senator Jon Kyl from Arizona recently, for example, made the point that you can't add millions of new baby boomers now retiring to the Medicare system and save money without cutting benefits somewhere along the lines.
GUPTA: Yes. And how much is something really going to cost in the long term? These are all projected costs, they are estimated costs.
We've heard a lot about this idea that in the long term, prevention and wellness, if we start to create a healthier population, that's going to cut down on costs.
But, John, to your point, I want to give you a quick point of reference on Medicare, specifically Part A. Back in the mid '60s when it was conceived, they projected costs into the long term. They said it would cost $90 billion by the year 1990. The price tag in 1990 was closer to $67 billion.
So you can get an idea of just far off they were. And that was accounting for inflation and cost of living and that sort of thing, and it was still much, much higher.
So we're really moving with -- dealing with moving targets here more than anything else.
ROBERTS: Now we're talking as much as $1.6 trillion by some estimations, too. So we're way above those costs that were projected before.
Sanjay, thanks very much. Great to see you this morning.
GUPTA: Thanks, guys, you too.
COSTELLO: Coming up next, did you see it, the swimmer who flashed the world? He had this wardrobe malfunction at the world swimming. He was so embarrassed. Jeanne Moos will have more on this story when we come back.
It's 55 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the most news in the morning.
A champion U.S. swimmer suffers world class embarrassment during a race in Rome.
COSTELLO: It was cheeky.
(LAUGHTER)
Jeanne Moos tells us about the split that had nothing to do with his time and everything to do with his behind.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, NATIONAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Remember Janet Jackson's wardrobe malfunction? Consider this. A swimsuit malfunction, bottoms-up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you heard about this?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
MOOS: U.S. Olympic swimmer Ricky Berens bent over and split his skintight swimsuit. But the race must go on, especially at the world championships in Rome.
The U.S. team did qualify for the finals, and on websites across America, Beren's bottom was tops.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's got a nice bum. I'll give him that.
MOOS: Unlike Miss Universe, 2004, at least Berens has the water to partially block the view. Still some websites showed such close- ups they had to be labeled not suitable for work.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel to throw up all my guts.
MOOS: Most women disagreed. God bless America, that's a perfect bottom.
At the Beijing Olympics, Berens won a gold medal in the relay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something I want to do since I was a little kid.
MOOS: But he probably didn't want to do this. We spoke with his 17-year-old brother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My dad said the whole stadium was pointing at him and laughing at him.
MOOS: A couple of weeks ago the exact same brand of swimsuit split on a female Italian swimmer who ended up in tears, disqualified. Note how this blog strategically placed Italy's flag.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It split, but she got disqualified.
MOOS: Who among us hasn't split their pants? It's happened to this woman a few times. But her tattoos helped disguise her nakedness.
And this woman was exposed by a friend joking around.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She took her dog leash and clipped it to my belt loop, and said, ha-ha, you're a dog.
MOOS: Unfortunately she outran the leash.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The pants ripped right down the seam, and I had to run back to her house in my underwear, past her two older brothers and her father.
MOOS: At least Ricky Berens attracted whistles on "Live" with Regis and Kelly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This guy's butt is going to make his fame famous.
MOOS: After Janet Jackson's wardrobe malfunction, someone made cupcakes of her bejeweled bosom. But who needs cupcakes when you have buns?
Jeanne Moss, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(LAUGHTER)
COSTELLO: I don't even want to comment.
ROBERTS: Continue the conversation on today's stories. Go to our blog, CNN.com/am fix. That's going to wrap it up for us.
COSTELLO: And thank goodness for that.
ROBERTS: Thanks so much for joining us.
COSTELLO: Here's "CNN Newsroom" with Heidi Collins.
