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Nancy Grace
Rowe and Katherine Jackson Find Custody Agreement for Michael`s Children
Aired July 30, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight in the sudden death of music superstar Michael Jackson. As we go to air, we learn exactly what police seized in the Vegas raids connected to Jackson`s private doctor. Tonight, the search warrants have been revealed. The documents suggest investigators believe Michael Jackson was an addict. And it`s confirmed DEA, LAPD and Vegas cops on the hunt for evidence connected to the powerful anesthetic propofol.
And in another major development tonight, both sides finally hammer out a custody agreement over Michael Jackson`s children. In the last hours, grandmother Katherine Jackson and bio mom Debbie Rowe announce a custody deal. But it`s not over yet. The fate of Jackson`s children finally resolved, but the legal battle rages on over Jackson`s empire. Now estimated at $2 billion -- with a B.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s very simple when it comes to the children. The will it is -- it`s a will from my brother because that`s the way he would have done it and that`s the way he did it. My mother gets full custody of the children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news, first of all, in the legal battle over Michael Jackson`s kids. A tentative agreement has been struck between Jackson`s ex-wife, Debbie Rowe, and his mother, Katherine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rowe waived her parental rights in 2001, telling a Los Angeles court, quote, "They are his children," all part of an $8.5 million settlement in which the pop star got full custody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you ready to fight for your children? Are you ready to fight for your children?
DEBBIE ROWE, MICHAEL JACKSON`S EX-WIFE: Do not touch me!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Apparently, through this agreement, I`m told, she will have visitation rights, but she will not have custody of these children. There will be no money involved for Debbie Rowe in this custody agreement.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you ready to fight for your children?
ROWE: Are you ready to get your butt kicked? Don`t (DELETED) touch me!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And tonight, we go live to Boise, Idaho, as the desperate search goes on for little 8-year-old boy. Where, oh, where is Robert Manwill?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Still no sign of Robert anywhere. People are still looking, not giving up hope.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a single focus and that`s to find Robert.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to police, the family last saw the 8- year-old around 9:30 PM Friday night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are concerned whenever you have somebody that is that young and vulnerable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody must believe that the child is still in the Boise area because on Friday, they`re asking 1,000 volunteers to come out to this location to search for this young 8-year-old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Robert`s family tells us that like any other 8- year-old boy, he`s inquisitive and he likes to explore and sometimes he likes to check out hiding places. So please, check the areas around your houses. Check your garages and your sheds, your van and cars, any place that a little boy may go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If somebody`s seen him, you know, please, please call the police. You know, all`s we want is our little boy back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All we want to do is bring Robert home. So please, if you know anything, if you`ve seen anything, contact the police department and help us find Robert.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Breaking news in the sudden death of music superstar Michael Jackson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A source with knowledge of the agreement tells me that Katherine Jackson will have custody of Michael Jackson`s three children. This is how Michael Jackson apparently wanted it to go. This is what he said in his will. He wanted his mother to serve as the guardian of these children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The children will be fine. They`re with my mother right now and my kids. And anybody that tries to contest this will on any level, whether with the executors or whether it`s with anything, they`re not living out Michael`s wishes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to look at what`s in their best interest. They obviously have a relationship with Katherine. They have cousins. They have aunts. They have uncles. All that will be taken into consideration, as will, most likely, listening to the kids themselves, what do they want.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When she and Michael Jackson divorced back in the `90s, she had a divorce settlement with him. It had been agreed that she would receive $8.5 million, and that is the money she is still receiving from the estate to this day. So I`m told there will not be extra money going to Debbie Rowe.
JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FATHER: We`re going to take care of them and give them the education they`re supposed to have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So many developments tonight in the Michael Jackson case. I am holding in my hand, hot off the presses, the search warrant for the raid on Dr. Conrad Murray`s home and office in Las Vegas.
For the latest details on what is contained in this search warrant, let`s go straight out to Ellie Jostad, Nancy Grace producer, who has been poring through this.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey.
JOSTAD: We find out that what they are looking for is evidence of the charges of manslaughter, excessive prescribing, and prescribing to an addict. The other interesting thing, they`re looking for anything related to the treatment, patient records, prescriptions for Michael Jackson, or 19 aliases they believe Jackson may have used. Those aliases include his son`s name, Prince Jackson, Frank Tyson, who`s a former personal assistant, Kai Chase, who is his personal chef. Also the name Omar Arnold, which we`ve heard was an alias Michael Jackson used often in relation to his health care.
They were specifically looking for any information, distribution lists, prescriptions, delivery, storage of that drug, propofol, which authorities tell us they believe may have killed Michael Jackson.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did they find propofol?
JOSTAD: that is not listed on the return here, Jane. We`ve got computer evidence. We`ve got cell phone evidence. We`ve got paperwork. But I don`t see propofol listed here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, Vince Velazquez, you`re the homicide detective. They go in there, their priority number one is finding the propofol. That is at the center of this investigation. It`s not listed. A lot of other good stuff but no propofol. Is that, in essence, a defeat? And does it have anything to do with the fact that maybe we knew for six days that this raid was going to happen because it was six days earlier that they had raided his Houston office?
VINCE VELAZQUEZ, HOMICIDE DETECTIVE, ATLANTA METRO AREA: Right. Doesn`t take a rocket scientist to figure that out. But the fact that it`s not on the return, it wasn`t there. Doesn`t mean that they`re not proceeding with their investigation. There`s still other evidence, I`m sure.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m not suggesting they`re not proceeding. I`m saying what is the significance of the fact that they get there and they don`t find the smoking gun that they`re looking for? They find all these aliases, Gloria Allred, but they don`t find this smoking gun of propofol. Your analysis?
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Yes. Well, first of all, we don`t yet have the toxicology report, so we don`t yet know exactly what killed Michael Jackson. But nonetheless, they may have discovered the propofol elsewhere, or maybe they just don`t think it`s in that location. It`s a shame that it took so long to have the search warrant actually executed at this particular location.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Phone lines lighting up. Brenda, West Virginia, your question or thought, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What I wanted to know is, I wonder why Michael didn`t try to have his own natural child. Possibly maybe he might have been already on drugs and it was in his system, since she wanted to give him his children so bad?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s an excellent question. And who better than Bethany Marshal, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers," to answer it. First of all, that dovetails with another big story, the reports out of some quarters that Michael Jackson might have had a love child, Omer Bhatti, a 25-year-old aspiring rapper from Norway, who says, No, I was just a friend of his, but Joe Jackson is apparently saying, Well, you know, he has the same Jackson dance and the same Jackson walk as the rest of the Jacksons. What do you make of all of that, Bethany?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, I`m very suspicious when Joe Jackson starts talking about somebody`s walk and talk. I feel like he`s promoting a new album and a new artist. So I`m suspicious of what he has to say.
In terms of Brenda`s question, it could be that Michael Jackson -- you know, we found out in the trial it could be that he`s not sexually attracted to age mate, so he -- maybe he didn`t want to procreate with another woman. Maybe he wanted sole control over the children. He did not want to share parenting with another parent. Maybe he was a divisive sort of character, so the idea of sharing parenting, making joint decisions, having a loving relationship with someone of the opposite sex who was an age mate, did not fit into his orientation and lifestyle, and that`s why he had the children on his own.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to get back to the search warrant that we just obtained and the focus on Dr. Conrad Murray, the physician who was with Michael Jackson when he was found, basically, without a pulse and not breathing.
Let`s bring in the attorneys. Doctor -- Rich, you`re not a doctor! You`re Richard Herman, defense attorney. And Bradford Cohen, defense attorney. Analyze the fact that they go first to the Houston office, and then six days later -- and according to some reports, it was because they were having a little power struggle between the various law enforcement, between L.A. and Las Vegas. Six days later, they raid the Las Vegas home of Dr. Conrad Murray. They find a lot of stuff, but they don`t find the smoking gun of propofol, Richard.
BRADFORD COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I was just telling you, it`s a huge mistake on their part. No matter what happened in terms of a power struggle or anything like that, when you serve a search warrant on one area and then you wait six days and serve a search warrant on another area of the same individual, it doesn`t take a genius to get rid of whatever evidence there possibly could be. Not saying he did, but it`s definitely there that he could have. He had six days to get rid of it.
So it was a huge mistake on their part. I don`t know how it went down in terms of a power struggle, but it`s just a huge error. And that`s why whenever they do raids, they always coordinate, where, boom, boom, they hit them at the same time, so this person can`t call that person, say, Get rid of the evidence.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, yes. I mean, and Richard Herman, it`s the element of surprise that a raid brings with it. If it doesn`t have the element of surprise, does it really accomplish anything?
COHEN: It doesn`t, Jane. You can call me Doctor, if you like. No problem.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Doctor! Dr. Richard, go ahead!
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s consistent with the fact that they never secured the crime scene in a timely matter. And there were stories of moving trucks coming and taking things out of the house after he died there. I mean, it was -- it`s ridiculous!
But look, Jane, they found canisters of oxygen littered throughout his room, all over the house. The room was like a hospital setting. They found IV bags with material in those bags, and that`s what they`re going to point to. They`re going to say that Conrad Murray injected him with that flow and that caused his breathing to stop, caused the cardiac arrest, and it was gross negligence of him to do that. And there`s the manslaughter charge.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Firpo Carr, you`re the former Jackson family spokesperson and a family friend. When you read this list of aliases, it would be funny except it`s tragic. I mean, you have aliases like Josephine Baker. You have aliases like Jack London, the author of "Call of the Wild." I mean, what is going on here? You knew Jackson. Is this some kind of inside joke?
FIRPO CARR, JACKSON FAMILY FRIEND (via telephone): Well, Michael Jackson was always a joker. That`s for sure. And he was also creative, as we can see here. I would say that he was a troubled soul at certain points in his life and that when he came across certain things that would tell the world that, Hey, listen, I`m not as perfect as I`d like to be, then he became very creative, as I mentioned.
But let`s keep this one thing in mind. Michael Jackson has done so much so good to the world that it would lead one to believe -- or one would have to think that, Hey, listen, this guy, still the good outweighs the bad, and that`s what we should concentrate on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, I`m sure lots of people believe that. And I loved his music.
Tonight, are you Nancy Grace`s number one fan? Plead your case and send us your extraordinary story. Prove to us you are Nancy Grace`s biggest fan. We are looking for submissions that stand out. If we choose your submission and read it on the show, you will win an autographed copy of Nancy`s new book, "The 11th Victim," and have a chance to meet Nancy in New York City on the set. And I can tell you, that is a lot of fun. Go to CNN.com/nancygrace.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael Jackson`s personal physician may not be a suspect right now, but he`s certainly being treated like one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dr. Conrad Murray had his Las Vegas home searched yesterday, along with his office.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We can confirm to you the DEA, Los Angeles Police Department, Las Vegas Metro police all there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So after allegations Dr. Conrad Murray gave Jackson the drug that killed him, what are the feds looking for?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are there lot numbers? Are there purchase orders? Did he have any correspondence with Michael Jackson? What phone calls did he make the morning of Michael Jackson`s death?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What they want to do is they want to get personal computers and they want to get laptops. They want to find things like e- mail files. They want to find things like financial records, wire transfers, everything that could show business being conducted between two people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think they`re looking at the records to see if anything was phonied up, you know, phony names, et cetera. You know, but it`s a long ways, a light year between being a bad doctor, being an abusive doctor, and someone who is a murderer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And according to Murray`s lawyers -- again, it`s the same basic statement -- they say they`re completely cooperating with everything. In fact, they say today they cooperated at the house, where Murray was helping them find items that they were searching for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Hot off the presses, this is the search warrant for the raid on Dr. Conrad Murray`s Las Vegas home and office and the return, which is basically a list of what they took. And it`s fascinating.
We`ll go to Melanie Bromley, West Coast bureau chief of "US Weekly," for reaction to this. They found -- well, they took image of hard drive, image of hard drive, image of hard drive, image of slave hard drive, hard drive from PC, phone message book, CD with the name Omar Arnold on it -- that was one of Michael Jackson`s favorite aliases. They took an iPhone. They took green binders. They took miscellaneous paperwork.
What are they -- how are they trying to connect the dots here back to the situation at that rented mansion where Michael Jackson was found without a pulse and not breathing?
MELANIE BROMLEY, "US WEEKLY": Well, basically, they`re trying to collect as much evidence as they can until that toxicology report comes out so that they`ve got everything in place, depending, so they can make a decision at that time as far as what they`re going to do. They`re looking to see if he has -- you know, what exactly what Michael was taking and what this doctor`s role in Michael Jackson`s death was. And so that`s why they`re trying to gather as much evidence as they possibly can.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Natasha, Delaware. Your question or thought, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jane. I`m a big fan. I`ve been watching this since is all started. And I remember in the very beginning, they said that Dr. Murray was not licensed to write prescriptions in the state of California. Now, if that were true, would he not have been already charged with that?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Gloria Allred, they are trying to get their case together. We hear that the autopsy results keep getting delayed. First they said it was last week, then it`s this week, now it`s next week. We don`t know when it`s going to happen. They are obviously trying to fashion their case so that when they do release this autopsy result, I would think, whatever else they`re going to do in terms of law enforcement legally, they`re ready to do it. Wouldn`t that be correct?
ALLRED: Perfect analysis, Jane, as usual. I would totally agree that even if they felt that they had some evidence sufficient to charge him with at this time, or sufficient to charge someone else with, that they would wait until they had all the evidence and all the charges that they are going to make and make them all at one time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Peter Bowes, you`re the BBC correspondent. What`s fascinating about this search warrant, it was signed on the 24th. It was not executed until four days later, on the 28th. There have been published reports from TMZ, that CNN cannot independently confirm, that there was a turf war going on between the LAPD and Las Vegas Police Department, and essentially, it was sort of that jockeying for who`s in charge, and that was partially the reason for this delay. What do you know?
PETER BOWES, BBC: Well, you know, when you get multiple organizations involved in an investigation like this -- and this wouldn`t be the first example -- there are often conflict of interest in terms of who is leading the investigation, who is taking the key role. And that may or may well not be a factor here. I don`t know.
What I do know is that I spend a lot of time trying to distinguish between fact and fiction and speculation in this case. And at least this search warrant gives us a few facts and a few significant phrases, like they were looking for evidence that -- finding drugs that have been used or given to an addict, that phrase "an addict" used in relation to Michael Jackson. We heard last week when we heard about the search warrant the word "manslaughter" used. We`re piecing together this jigsaw very slowly.
But I think, clearly, like has already been said, we need to wait for the results of the toxicology tests. We don`t know when they will be. I spoke to the coroner`s office the other day. They said, Yes, it probably will be next week, but they really can`t say. They just said, We`ll give you hours notice, whenever that happens to be.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE JACKSON: He was the biggest superstar in the world and they`re just now recognizing it now. I recognized it from -- matter of fact, I developed Michael into what he is. And not only just Michael, the whole family, Janet and all the rest of them. And so I hope that people will understand some of the problems. They were saying I was too rough with the family. Everybody spanks. I never beat Michael in my life. I did spank the family once in a while. Katherine spanked them more than I did, but they blame it all on me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s nice, Joe. Blame it on Katherine. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Mayor developments in the Michael Jackson case tonight, an 11th hour custody deal in anticipation of the big custody/estate hearing coming up on Monday.
Melanie Bromley, "US Weekly," what do you know about this custody deal just reached between Debbie Rowe and Katherine Jackson?
BROMLEY: Well, Katherine has custody now. They`ve been discussing this for weeks. She`s got it. Debbie will be allowed visitation, but there will be a child psychologist which will help the kids and Debbie be able to integrate together properly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bethany Marshall, this psychologist that`s going to be chosen by Katherine and Debbie Rowe is going to determine how, when, where the appropriateness of the visitation of Debbie Rowe, who, according to reports, the kids don`t know that Debbie Rowe -- the two oldest kids don`t know Debbie Rowe is their mom.
MARSHALL: It`s amazing. This psychologist has her hands full. I`m going to tell you that right now!
(LAUGHTER)
MARSHALL: I mean, what I would start with, if I was treating this family, is what have the children been told about Debbie Rowe? Did Michael Jackson engage in parental alienation syndrome, where he said bad things about her or he said, You don`t have a mom, or, Your mom abandoned her (SIC)? What does the situation mean?
Can Debbie Rowe communicate with Mrs. Jackson? I would get them to talk to each other and find out where the communication breakdowns are. I would help them make an agreement. Can they keep the children`s schedule, structure, attachment, favorite activities and toys consistent from household to household? And most importantly, what do the children want? Where are their primary attachments? And keeping that as intact as possible.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Gloria Allred, you`re the victims` rights and child advocate. There was a lot of emphasis saying this was not a money deal, even though she gets a continuation of spousal support. What do you make of it?
ALLRED: Well, yes, Debbie Rowe gets spousal support. But also, Katherine Jackson, of course, is going to get a family allowance to support the children. I think it would have been inappropriate for Debbie Rowe to receive any additional funds. I`m glad that this is the result and I hope that it will be in the best interests of the children.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: We are here inside the operating room with Dr. Gershon. He`s the chief of anesthesiologist here. Propofol is a medication he uses all the time.
DR. RAPHAEL GERSHON, CHIEF OF ANESTHESIOLOGY, GRADY MEMORIAL HOSPITAL: We have to monitor his EKG. We have to monitor his end-tidal CO2. We have to make sure that he`s breathing. We have to see a saturation. We have to make sure he`s ventilated.
GUPTA: So these are all -- that`s all typical stuff every time you use.
GERSHON: Standard of care, yes.
GUPTA: OK, so the propofol.
GERSHON: We`re going to start infusing this. You`re going to get a little sleepy, Vincent. Now take in some good deep breaths.
VINCENT, PATIENT: Five, four, three, two, one.
GUPTA: His eyes closed and what else are you looking for?
GERSHON: He stopped breathing. But this is -- watching his end-tidal CO2. And he`s not breathing anymore. And my wonderful method is going to help him breathe.
GUPTA: Well, there you can see part of the problem. Just with that much propofol there, he stopped breathing and he`s going to need a breathing tube.
If you take a look over here, all of the breathing right now is taking place with this bag and this mask.
GERSHON: It`s just basically a quick on, quick off. And that may answer why people may think that this is something they could do at home because if it gets out of hand, it goes away quickly.
The problem is, if it gets out of hand and somebody tried to resuscitate you, and nobody could bring you back.
GUPTA: One thing that`s worth pointing out is that this is a hospital that uses this medication thousands and thousands of times a year. But they do use this medication in non-hospital settings like outpatient clinics. The doctors here will tell you they`ve never heard of it being used in a home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace. Hot off the presses. We are going through it as we speak. Just got it. These search warrant in return for the raid on the Las Vegas home and office of Dr. Conrad Murray. That, of course, the doctor who was with Michael Jackson the day he died.
I know Ellie Jostad, NANCY GRACE producer has been thumbing through this at rapid speed. What else have you got for us, Ellie?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Right. Well, we learned that not only were the DEA, the LAPD and Las Vegas Police there looking for anything regarding Michael Jackson`s treatment, they were also looking for correspondence with other doctors. And they list six of them here.
Dr. Klein, who we`ve heard about before, Michael Jackson`s personal dermatologist. I assume the same Dr. Klein. Dr. Metger (ph), Dr. Adams (ph), Dr. Mark Tadrisi (ph), or David Plavit (ph), Dr. Randy Rosen.
Also, any correspondence with AEG. That`s the group that was promoting Michael Jackson`s concerts in London. Or also the nurse practitioner, Cherilyn Lee. She`s the woman claims Michael Jackson was begging her for the drug propofol.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, let me just clarify, Ellie. You`re saying that they were looking for any correspondence related to those people or did they find correspondence related to those people?
JOSTAD: They were looking for it. It`s not clear if they found it. But they were looking for any correspondence with either Michael Jackson or any of those aliases as well as these doctors that I just mentioned.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of course, the timeline on the day Michael Jackson died extremely crucial.
Let`s listen to the personal chef who was there that day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAI CHASE, MICHAEL JACKSON`S PERSONAL CHEF: Around 12:00, 12:10, Dr. Murray comes running down the stairs and into the kitchen stairwell -- into the kitchen. He comes into the kitchen screaming, "Hurry, go get Prince, go get security." Dr. Murray is screaming, "Something may be wrong with your dad."
We`re all panicking and wondering what`s going on, you know? Paris is screaming and crying, "Daddy, daddy, daddy." I`m driving in my car. (INAUDIBLE) Mr. Jackson pronounced dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Keri Peterson, internal medicine, Lenox Hill, Hospital. Thank you for patience. You`ve been listening to all this. The big question, of course, why didn`t -- when the paramedics arrived, they immediately take Michael Jackson into an ambulance and do all their work on him on the way to the hospital?
Dr. Conrad Murray was the doctor in charge so he had the authority. He said to them, stay there for 42 minutes to work on Michael Jackson without a pulse, without breathing, in the home.
What do you make of that decision?
DR. KERI PETERSON, M.D., INTERNAL MEDICINE, LENOX HILL HOSPITAL: Well, what I would gather, when it comes to resuscitation, time is of the essence. You don`t have seconds to spare when someone is not breathing. So presumably, Dr. Murray was in a panic at that moment because he had attempted resuscitative efforts unsuccessfully, and he was probably not thinking very rationally at that time.
When the EMS arrived they would administer CPR immediately right there in the bed and would transport him as they were doing the CPR along the way. So I imagine that their emotions were just running very high but that the EMS was very well-qualified to do what they`re trained to do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Dr. Peterson, you`re thinking like a doctor.
Vince Velasquez, think like a homicide detective since that`s what you are. In terms of the timeline, and remember, he hasn`t been charged with anything. He`s cooperating, he says, with authorities. We`re not trying to say anything about him.
But the timeline is a big question mark. The chef said normally he would come down the stairs with two oxygen tanks at around 10:00 every morning. The morning Michael Jackson died he did not come down the stairs until a little bit after noon. He didn`t call 911 until 12:22.
Now if nothing was wrong, if nothing was untoward that morning, why wouldn`t he have come down the stairs at 10:00? And if he was upstairs and something was wrong, why didn`t he call 911 at 10:00 instead of at 12:22?
VINCE VELAZQUEZ, HOMICIDE DETECTIVE, ATLANTA METRO AREA, HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: Absolutely. I mean this timeline is crucial and the fact that this chef made has the statement is going to be crucial. All those people in the house, security, are going to add to this fact that this doctor really was in a panic. He did not do what he was supposed to do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, is it a panic or could investigators be looking at the possibility, Richard Herman, Bradford Cohen -- let`s start with Richard -- that there was something untoward going on? You know how they say the cover-up is always worse than the crime. I`m speaking hypothetically, of course.
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. Well, what`s he to gain out of this? I don`t think so, Jane. I think, like everyone is saying, he went to a panic. He tried to resuscitate him. He didn`t have the drug there, Narco, which he should have had to be able to give him and reverse the Diprivan.
He was all alone. I don`t know what his experience has been with Diprivan. I don`t know how many people he`s given it to, how he`s administered it. But obviously the doctor went to a panic.
But we don`t know at what point in time Michael Jackson stopped breathing. So it could have been closer to 12:00 when he stopped breathing. We just don`t know. So much speculation, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Bradford Cohen, time of death in the autopsy report, then, is going to be crucial.
BRADFORD COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s going to be difficult in terms of deciding between 30 minutes and 40 minutes. I mean, you`re talking a difference of an hour and a half, maybe an hour.
In terms of time of death, that is going to be difficult to place in regards to that. I mean, you`re going to have experts on either side. An d this is so far down the road if he even gets charged with it. But if he does get charged with it, you have experts on either side saying that time of death was this time, the time of death was that time.
An hour is a very difficult thing to put a time of death in regards to because of the way the body decomposes and the way the body reacts.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, it`s going to be interesting to see what the is the smoking gun because reports are Diprivan was found there. But how are they going to connect that, necessarily, the illegality on his part? Yes, we know it`s unethical, perhaps, to administer this powerful surgical knockout drug in the home.
But is it illegal, Gloria Allred?
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ATTORNEY, CHILD ADVOCATE: Well, it may very well be. If, in fact, it was administered and the administration of it was reckless, not with due care, it may be.
What`s also going to be interesting, Jane, is the fact he apparently has provided statements to the police and it may be that his very own statements are going to be statements that later on he wished he had never provided.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Melanie, Ohio, your question or thought, briefly.
MELANIE, CALLER FROM OHIO: My prayers go out to the children. And my question being, is there so much talk of intervention from the Jackson family about Michael? What about the intervention for the children? What about the children?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Great question. Bethany Marshall, 10 seconds.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": These children, I mean, they are just suffering so much. The best form of intervention is to give them a normal continuity of their lifestyle, to let them spend time with their relatives. To not intrude upon them questions of what has happened and wait for them to ask the question themselves.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are you Nancy Grace`s number one fan? Send us an e- mail or iReport with your extraordinary story and prove to us that you are Nancy Grace`s biggest fan. We`re looking for submissions that stand.
If you we choose your submission and read it on our show, you will win an autographed copy of Nancy`s new book, "The Eleventh Victim," and a chance to meet Nancy in New York City on the set. That`s a whole lot of fun. Get your video cameras and e-mails ready and go to CNN.com/Nancygrace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: I want to thank you so much for all of your calls and your e-mails about my book, "Eleventh Victim." It comes out on August 11. You were the very first to see it right now. Of course after Lucy, pictured here, who grabbed it first.
It`s about a prosecutor who tries her best to give up criminal law and start a new life. But when her friends are murdered, one by one, the NYPD hones in on her.
It took me years to write this book. I started when I first left felony prosecution. And I missed it so much. Since then I wrote another book and published it. Launched this show with my producer, Dean. Got married. Got pregnant. Gave birth. Nearly died. Didn`t. And finished the book.
I hope you like it. Part of my proceeds go to a charity, Wesley Glenn, who takes care of the mentally handicapped that need a loving home. You can find this book on our Web site.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You had some concerns about the physicians and the people who were around him during the last moments of his life?
JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FATHER: Yes, I am. I have a lot of concerns.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What are your concerns about?
JACKSON: I can`t get into that. But I don`t like what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The picture coming into focus of a multi-doctor, multi-state, multifaceted human conveyor belt used to provide Michael Jackson exactly what he wanted. And apparently, what he wanted in great quantities. Powerful prescription drugs.
Numerous reports, in fact, of propofol at his home. And his sister LaToya even said she saw an IV stand in his bedroom. Propofol, we know, is delivered through an IV drip. This all really put investigators on alert because the drug is only supposed to be used in a hospital setting, as you know.
It`s a very powerful sedative used during surgeries. But Jackson apparently liked it so if this drug was inside Jackson`s home and if Dr. Conrad Murray provided it this could mean big trouble.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace. We have just obtained the search warrant and return for the raid on Dr. Conrad Murray`s Las Vegas home and office.
And at the very same time, we`re learning more disturbing details about Dr. Conrad Murray`s past.
Let`s go straight out to Peter Bowes, BBC correspondent. And of course, Peter, you and I covered the Michael Jackson criminal trial in Santa Maria together. We spent a lot of days out there hanging out at the courthouse.
What can you tell us about Dr. Conrad Murray`s problems?
PETER BOWES, CORRESPONDENT, BBC: Well, according to court documents he does have financial problems. There are judgments against him to the tune of $435,000. He is in danger, again, according to documents that have been published of, perhaps, losing his home to foreclosure.
And we know that he was earning a significant amount of money from Michael Jackson. There`s been some debate as to whether he was actually paid over the last couple of months of Michael Jackson`s life.
So here is a man that seems to have had some financial issue. Whether at the end of the day these financial issues, Jane, have anything to do with the real issue at the heart of the matter, how Michael Jackson died, and whether anyone is criminally liable for that, I don`t know. It may be a completely separate issue.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s bring in the attorneys. Richard Herman and Bradford Cohen.
Richard, will this be a factor in this case against him that he`s facing foreclosure? Even though he owes a $1.65 million home? And that he`s had these liens and he`s had judgments against him and he had a bankruptcy in `92? Or is that just water under the bridge and irrelevant?
HERMAN: Jane, as a lawyer, you know that`s going to be irrelevant.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m not a lawyer.
HERMAN: They`re not going to let that in. It`s going to muddy the waters. We have to go to the facts here. What happened in that mansion? What happened that day? What did this doctor do? Did he prescribe medications? What`s the issue with Diprivan? Was Diprivan provided by this doctor in a lethal dose? That`s the issue.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now.
COHEN: I don`t know about that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.
COHEN: I don`t completely agree with him. It`s not completely irrelevant if they can link it to the motive. And the motive is this. If you`re a state attorney, you can sit there and say to yourself, and give it to the jury, and say listen, this doctor was blinded by the light. He needed the money.
He was enamored by the stars and he gave him whatever he wanted and that included this illegal Diprivan or propofol, however you want to say it. And that is what we`re looking at. So I don`t think it`s completely irrelevant. I think they could link it to the case with a smart state attorney.
And that would be -- I think would be completely legal to do it. I don`t think that they could throw is out there and say that it`s irrelevant.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Gloria Allred, I have no independent confirmation of this. But there are published reports that in `94 Mr. Murray was arrested on domestic violence charges after an incident with his then girlfriend. He was acquitted, however.
So is that totally irrelevant? Is that something we should chuck that and say he`s acquitted? So what?
ALLRED: Yes. I don`t think that it`s frankly relevant to this particular investigation. But I think it`s interesting. I mean, we`re talking about the court of public opinion. And in the court of public opinion, everything about Dr. Murray is interesting.
And also, by the way, not only did he administer propofol, but how did he administer it if he did administer it? Did he stay in the room with the oxygen? Did he leave? Did he fall asleep? What, exactly, happened in that room? And those are the questions that we`re going to need to be answered.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, thank you. Fantastic panel.
We`re going to switch now. Switching gears to a really heart- wrenching story about a missing 8-year-old boy. He`s been missing six days now in a case out of Boise, Idaho. Listen.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you`ve seen him, call the police and help us to bring him home.
NATALIE HURST, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE KBCI: He was last wearing a faded blue t-shirt and just like a typical 8-year-old he was wearing a Spider-man design, blue jeans and dark tennis shoes.
Still no sign. He`s been missing since Friday. Wandered off around 10:00, 11:00 p.m. is the official word from Boise Police. Hasn`t been seen since then.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Robert is still missing but we remain hopeful for Robert`s safe return. The family members behind me are cooperating full with investigators as we continue to pour over the leads and put together a timeline for young Robert.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Boise Police say they are following more than 100 leads in this case. And there is no evidence to indicate Robert has left the area. At least his family continuing to reach out to this community.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is Robert`s bear that has always been close to his heart. And our family would love to reunite them together. Please do what you can to help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, that teddy bear breaks my heart. The desperate search goes on for this 8-year-old Idaho boy who vanished without a trace.
Let`s go straight out to Natalie Hurst, reporter with CNN affiliate KBCI.
Natalie, what is the very latest?
HURST: All right, Jane. Well, here`s the very latest. The situation has changed in a sense of volunteers, citizen volunteers were asked to stay home today. The reason why? Was because the Idaho National Guard volunteers along with Boise Police were out on foot patrolling the area, looking for any clues of little Robert Manwill.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s talk a little bit about what`s going on in this neighborhood.
Greg Hahn, you`re the editor of the "Idaho Statesman." I was shocked to hear that they`ve already talked to 120 sex offenders in a two-mile radius of the boy`s home. What the heck is going on with 120 sex offenders within a two-mile radius of anybody`s home?
GREG HAHN, EDITOR, IDAHO STATESMAN; COVERING STORY (via phone): Well, I don`t now how unusual it really is. I mean that`s a kind of a scary thing. I mean I think it depends on the affordability of the neighborhood. These are often folks, you know, it`s hard to get a job, I`m sure. At that point -- and this immediate neighborhood is lower-income than the rest of the town. There`s more people who rent. There`s a higher percentage of rent.
We pulled up the census from the (INAUDIBLE) almost 10 years ago. There was zero percentage of homes valued at over $200,000 in this immediate area. So it`s not a -- you know, this is a little area and a lot of people living there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Greg, I got to ask you. Give us a little bit of the troubling back story of this family.
HAHN: Yes, you know, we`ve -- the mother has had some trouble. She`s on probation right now. She was -- pleaded guilty to what she said accidentally hitting her infant`s head on a table. The state sort of countered that a little bit. She`s been on probation. And they actually took the baby away.
Her husband has been -- her boyfriend has been in trouble for various things, burglary.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I thought that was a boyfriend.
HAHN: The boyfriend, yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
HAHN: The boyfriend that she lives with. And then the saddest thing of all, on the dad`s side, he lost a son about 10 years ago, 15 years ago. His first wife pleaded guilty to stabbing their 4-year-old in the chest in kind of a fit of passion I guess.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Robert`s dad, Charles Manwill, he says Robert wanted to go to a birthday party but his mom said no and then the boy went missing. Manwill says it`s not like his son to just disappear.
CHARLES MANWILL, FATHER OF MISSING 8-YR-OLD ROBERT MANWILL: If somebody has seen him, you know, please, please call the police. You know all we want is for our little boy back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jane Velez-Mitchell filling in for Nancy Grace. Look at that precious boy. He is missing tonight in Boise, Idaho, and tomorrow they`re going to have a thousand people, they hope, searching for this child. We pray he is found alive.
Vince Velazquez, you`re the homicide detective out of Atlanta. How do they do this with a thousand people? It would seem to me to be quite the - - almost like a circus without having training for these people and to know to what to look for. These are just citizens that are going to show up.
VELAZQUEZ: Well, they`re going to do a great search, Jane. And what they`re going do is have team captains, probably groups of people, and give a specific area. Go out into the woods and to the area closest to the house and expand from the last place he was seen.
So it`s actually not as hard as it may seem. There are people that are going to be trained -- training the volunteers, and just to make sure that you don`t hit these spots more than once. And hopefully find -- find this child OK, hopefully.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Richard Herman, we`ve got 20 seconds. The stats are against finding this child alive. But we can always see the stats undone. Certainly we can find this child alive.
HERMAN: Well, we can and we`ve seen it happen before like with the Smart case. But, you know, as Marc Klaas tells us all of the time, it`s 48 hours, 72 hour, doesn`t look good, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, well, let`s pray.
Tonight let`s also stop to remember Army First Lieutenant Brian Bradshaw, 24 years old, from Steilacoom, Washington. A graduate of Pacific Lutheran University. Remembered for his wonderful sense of humor, his willingness to help others. He loved giving away crayons, books and toys to local kids.
Loved the outdoors, skiing and hiking mountains. He dreamed of being a history teacher and a back-country skiing guide. He leaves behind parents Paul and Mary, both retired form the military, and a brother Robert.
Brian Bradshaw, an American hero.
We want to thank all of our guests for their insight. Thanks to you at home for tracking these important cases with us. We hope to see you tomorrow night. Until then have a terrific and a very safe evening.
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