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Bill Clinton in North Korea to Free American Journalists; Obama Meets with Democratic Senators; Baltimore Couple Accused of Making Child Porn; Michigan Prison Possible Site for Terror Detainees?; Young Teen Boys Brainwashed and Trained to Kill in Pakistan; One Oregon Couple Wants to Waste Not, Want Not Over the Next Year

Aired August 4, 2009 - 13:00   ET


T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: That's it for me for now, T.J. Holmes sitting in today for Tony Harris. Now time to hand it off to that lady, Kyra Phillips, in the CNN NEWSROOM. All yours, Kyra.


We're pushing forward in Pyongyang. North Korea opens its doors to Bill Clinton, private citizen, on a private mission to free two Americans. Incredible pictures from a secretive state.

General Motors did it. Chrysler did it. Now Detroit public schools may go where no school system has gone before: bankruptcy. We'll do the math.

And we'll talk trash with a couple who's sworn off garbage for a year. Reduce, reuse, recycle, and compost, compost, compost.

Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips, live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Well, the world is buzzing about Bill Clinton's surprise trip to North Korea, but now the whole world is asking will he get -- what will he get, and what did he come for?

The forty-second president is trying to win the freedom of two American journalists who were captured in March and sentenced to years of hard labor. The White House insists that it's a solely private mission and denies Clinton carries any message from President Obama.

CNN's Jill Dougherty watching all this from the State Department -- Jill.

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, the focus of president -- former president, Bill Clinton, has is definitely very simple. Complex, but simple, which is to free those journalists. He is not there to do any negotiating on any other subjects.

And already he seems to be making some progress. At least we've seen these dramatic pictures of former President Clinton meeting with the Dear Leader, as he's called, of North Korea, Kim Jong-Il. These are photographs that are really quite rare. After all, sometimes analysts pore over photographs like this, trying to figure out the physical condition of the Dear Leader, who has been sick, did have a stroke last year. And now they're meeting face to face.

The focus, as I said, is to free those journalists. And we are told by a source who is very close to the efforts to free those journalists that this actually began quite a while ago, when there were essentially four candidates for going to North Korea. One would be Bill Richardson, the governor. Another John Kerry, the senator. Of course, Al Gore, who is the head of that company, the media company that these women work for, and finally Bill Clinton.

The White House determined that Bill Clinton would be the best person, because he is an individual person now, not a member of the government. But as I said, Kyra, his job is very specific, nothing else but to try to get those women back.

PHILLIPS: All right. Jill Dougherty, I know you're following that for us.

And we just want to give you a quick look at how we even got here now. Laura Ling and Euna Lee were arrested March 17 after allegedly crossing into North Korea from China. They were working on a story on human trafficking for Al Gore's startup media venture, Current TV.

Then in June the pair was convicted of illegal entry and so- called hostile acts. In a closed trial, they were sentenced to 12 years of hard labor.

Now, let's go ahead and chart the Clinton connection. You've got Ling and Lee, and they work for Current TV, which is owned, of course, by Al Gore. And then Al Gore was Clinton's VP, the former president, married to secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, now in Africa. No role, by the way, in Bill's private mention. So, you can see the connection to all the players going on right now in this.

So, is this just one big photo-op or a turning point in one of the world's more dangerous disputes? Let's go ahead and ask Joe Cirincione, international security analyst, nuclear weapons expert also, and president of Plowshares Fund. He joins me live from Washington.

You know, Joe, let's just lay it out here. I mean, Bill Clinton usually when he sets his sight on something means he's already got something in the works. So, are we going to see him coming back to the U.S. with these two journalists?

JOE CIRINCIONE, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I would say it would be a failure if he did not arrive back in the United States either with the two journalists or with an ironclad commitment for their release in the next few days.

Bill Clinton has been at dozens of summits as president and hundreds of meetings since then. He is not one to undertake this trip without the deal already negotiated, an understanding already arrived at.

And let me add another person to your circle of connections there. You may have noticed in those pictures with president Clinton is John Podesta, Bill Clinton's former chief of staff, and the man who oversaw the Obama presidential transition team. So, close connections to Clinton and to President Obama.

PHILLIPS: So, you know, in -- we really haven't seen a president manage good relations with North Korea, to say the least, with Kim Jong-Il. What is it about Bill Clinton? Give us a little bit of the path to the present, and what is it about him? What did he do? How did he form this relationship? And why is he the one that, more than likely, is going to come back with these two young journalists?

CIRINCIONE: Well, first, Bill Clinton is a power player. Of all the people you mentioned, Bill Clinton is by far the most prestigious political figure that you could choose to send to North Korea.

No. 2, he had a successful relationship with North Korea as president. Almost went to war over their nuclear program, but then in 1994, negotiated a deal that froze their plutonium production. North Korea did not produce plutonium, did not produce bombs during the rest of the Clinton administration. Under the President Bush administration, that deal fell apart. And North Korea tested nuclear weapons, tested long-range missiles. Now has, we believe, about 10 -- 6 to 10 nuclear weapons.

So, President Clinton is the last president to successfully contain the North Korean nuclear program.

And, finally, of course, it's not lost on anybody that his wife is secretary of state and that officials who used to work for him in the defense department are now working as assistant secretary of state, Kurt Campbell, as the point person for North Korea within the State Department. So, the connections and the history all point to Bill Clinton being the right man at the right moment.

PHILLIPS: Final thought: is this a bit awkward, you know, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, this is sort of her area. This is supposed to be what she's supposed to be doing, right? But then there's this kind of fine line between the Obama administration not wanting to negotiate with people like Kim Jong-Il and then, you know, her husband that may actually broker this deal.

CIRINCIONE: Well, yes, we've had this envoy system develop in the Obama administration, and it's proving to be quite successful, where people like Richard Holbrooke on Afghanistan and Pakistan and George Mitchell on Israel. And this kind of thing has been used by presidents repeatedly in the past.

Whether by design or by accident, the Obama administration seems to have played North Korea just about right: largely ignoring them for the first eight months, not rewarding their bad behavior, not reacting to their provocative statements or actions. And now after about two months of relatively quiet, moderate North Korean behavior and the involvement of China -- you heard the secretary of state praise China just a couple of weeks ago -- you now send in a real power player to hopefully negotiate the release of the journalists who never should have been arrested in the first -- the first place and help reset U.S./North Korean relations, refreezing that nuclear program. And if things work out, we could see the beginning, again, of the dismantlement of that nuclear program.

PHILLIPS: Well, stand by for breaking news. We'd like to see that in addition to this power player bring home two journalists.

Joe Cirincione, always good to talk to you. Thanks, Joe.

CIRINCIONE: My pleasure, Kyra. Thanks for having me.

PHILLIPS: You bet.

President Obama is spending part of his 48th birthday with a few of his favorite senators; actually, most of his favorite senators. The Senate Democratic Caucus is having lunch at the White House to look back on the past six months and plan the next. CNN's Elaine Quijano is there.

And, Elaine, I expect health care to be on the table in addition to maybe a little backtalk about what's happening in North Korea?

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Perhaps the economy, health care, perhaps a little of North Korea. But also we're told by White House press secretary Robert Gibbs, Kyra, that the cash for clunkers program is going to be high on the president's list of agenda items.

Why? Well, President Obama is going to reiterate, we're told, his support for this program and the fact that he wants to see the Senate go ahead and extend it.

Now, how does the president support doing that? Well, by taking already-approved funds from the Department of Energy and energy- efficient programs.

The bottom line here is that the Obama administration really believes that this cash for clunkers program has been a success, both on the economic front, and it's a success, they believe, on the environmental front. They say consumers are saving money with this program. It's accomplishing the mission of taking some of these older, polluting vehicles off the streets. So, they have definitely want to see it continue.

And, of course, this is all happening against the backdrop of the Senate getting ready to head out of town for the August recess at the end of the week. So, we're told cash for clunkers, Kyra, going to be at the top of the agenda -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, all kinds of interesting topics for all 60 senators, you're saying?

QUIJANO: Yes, you know, not all 60 senators. We're told they three senators, senators Byrd, Kennedy and Mikulski, won't be attending; health issues. Senator Mikulski actually broke her ankle, we are told by Robert Gibbs, so she won't be there. But definitely a full house: 57 of the 60 Democratic senators in the Senate expected to be on hand here today, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Elaine Quijano, thanks. We want to know what you think about the second 100 days of the Obama administration. Cast your vote now at And get the results from CNN's "National Report Card." That's Thursday night, 8 Eastern, only on CNN.

Hoping to hear something, anything about their loved ones. That's the situation right now for the families of three Americans being held in Iran. The three apparently were hiking in a scenic part of northern Iraq when they crossed the unmarked border into Iran and were arrested. Now, that was on Friday.

And an Iranian lawmaker is now quoted as saying that he thinks they came over as spies, but their case is under investigation. Of course, it's not easy getting them out. Swiss diplomats are working that angle, because U.S./Iranian diplomacy still doesn't really exist.

Some would-be terrorists with al Qaeda ties had big plans for Australia, plans that went nowhere and just landed them in jail. Police now say they broke up a plot and arrested four men who planned to attack a military base with automatic weapons, basically, take out as many soldiers as they could, then go out in a blaze of glory.


TONY NEGUS, AUSTRALIAN FEDERAL POLICE: Policemen allege that the men were planning to carry out a suicide terrorist attack on the defense establishment within Australia, involving an armed assault with automatic weapons. Details of the planning indicated the alleged offenders were prepared to inflict a sustained attack on military personnel until they themselves were killed.


PHILLIPS: Agents have been watching these guys for months and made their move early today. They raided nearly 20 places in Melbourne. The four men in custody are all Australian citizens of Lebanese or Somali descent. Several other people are being detained and questioned.

Now, in North Carolina, the alleged Tar Heels terrorists are working their way through the legal system. Remember these guys? Seven men accused of planning to go overseas and kill people in places like Pakistan, Jordan and Israel. They're in federal court today in Raleigh for a detention hearing. An eighth suspect is believed to be in Pakistan.

Back in Washington the Senate is gearing up for a final debate on Judge Sonia Sotomayor, President Obama's pick to replace David Souter on the Supreme Court. Now, you've heard the talking points from the hearings, the committee vote, and countless interviews and talk shows, but the floor debate sets the stage for a make-or-break, up-or-or down vote, probably Thursday. The top Senate Republican set the tone for most of his party.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: Judge Sotomayor is certainly a fine person, with an impressive story and a distinguished background, but a judge must be able to check his or her personal or political agenda at the courtroom door and do justice evenhandedly, as the judicial oath requires. This is the most fundamental test. It's a test that Judge Sotomayor does not pass.


PHILLIPS: The nominee has more than enough votes to be confirmed. And some will come from Republicans, but not many.

Look who's back in the huddle. Not an NFL huddle yet. Small steps first for Michael Vick.


PHILLIPS: So, is this what a house of horrors looks like? Behind closed doors cops say sexual abuse and kiddie porn. They've got the suspects in custody. It's the victims they're still looking for.


PHILLIPS: A Virginia high school football team gets a surprise visitor the first day of practice. Former NFL quarterback Michael Vick talked to the Landstown Eagles for about 15 minutes, then did some passing drills.

Vick just ended a 23-month sentence for dog fighting and hopes to resume his pro career. He once played for the Landstown coach, who said Vick talked to the team about making mistakes and doing right.

This weekend Vick reportedly will attend a Humane Society event in Atlanta.

Atlanta could be a secondary crime scene in a child porn case based in Baltimore. Maryland police arresting a couple who lived together, worked together, and allegedly abused children together.

More now from Joce Sterman of our affiliate, WMAR.


JOCE STERMAN, WMAR REPORTER (voice-over): This scooter, parked in front of this house on Conmar Road in Essex, looks like a sign of children at play, but police say what happened inside this home was far from innocent fun. They say the couple living inside, John Nicklas and Shannon Honea, were sexually abusing kids, taping the acts for use as child porn.

CPL. MIKE HILL, BALTIMORE COUNTY, MARYLAND, POLICE: Anybody in this kind of business, in public service, we see a lot of very sick things, and this was sickening.

STERMAN: Police say the abuse involved kids as young as 2 and as old as 13, with the victims assaulted here in Essex and, potentially, in hotel rooms in Atlanta or elsewhere.

Court documents show the couple have backgrounds as paramedics and that detectives found a vast amount of prescription bottles in the basement bedroom of this home. One victim abused there was reportedly unconscious during the assault.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty much disgusted about it. I can't believe that they did that.

STERMAN: Neighbors say they were astounded by the news, which had cops seizing CDs, DVDs and computer equipment from the house. It's evidence that's led to even more questions.

HILL: The unfortunate thing that we know is that we know that we have three very young victims, and we don't know who they are.

STERMAN: That's why Baltimore County police are asking parents to take a good look at John Nicklas and Shannon Honea. If there's a chance your kids or someone you know have spent time with them, they want you to call.

HILL: What's paramount to the Baltimore County Police Department is first to identify these victims and then to make sure that justice is served with these people.


PHILLIPS: Well, the officer that was in that piece actually joined our T.J. Holmes for a live update. Here's what he told us.


HOLMES: Is there any reason to think, I mean, did they do something in their careers or anything else that would just constantly put them in contact with children?

HILL: Well, that's something that our detectives are certainly looking into, and that's what we really need the public's help, neighbors, friends, family to contact us.

Now, we are conducting a lot of interviews to try to put that together. But unfortunately, you know, knowing that there's a lot of children in that neighborhood, knowing that they have been through several states, leads us to a lot of concern. We have partnered up with the Federal Bureau of Investigation assisting us in this, because we do believe we do have victims in other states.


PHILLIPS: Well, if you have any information on those two suspects or think that they've had contact with your child, you're asked to contact the Baltimore County P.D.'s crimes against children unit. That phone number is 410-853-3650. Once again, 410-853-3650.

Raging wildfires force thousands of people to flee their homes across the border into Canada. Where the flames are burning, and what fire crews hope to do next to try and save a threatened town.


PHILLIPS: Well, the next 32 hours could make all the difference in the fight to save one Canadian town from a raging wildfire. Flames have charred more than 20 square miles on the edge of the town of Lillooet, just northeast of Vancouver. Some 2,300 people have fled their homes.

Crews are trying a back-burn maneuver now , burning off trees between the town and the edge of the fire. More than 30 wildfires are burning in that province. Some firefighters from Australia are coming in now to help fight that fire.

Hot, dry weather in one part of the nation. A line of storms dumping rain elsewhere. Chad Myers tracking it all. Chad?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: And we focused a lot, Kyra, on Portland and Seattle and all of those U.S. towns that had all that heat last week and the week before. Well, you have to realize that all that heat went all the way up into British Columbia, as well. They were suffering with the same type of 90, 100-degree heat, drying out those woods, drying out all, making everything so tinder dry up there, and any spark causing those fires.

Those fires have been going for a while. But they didn't get any better when the temperature was 100 degrees. That's for sure.

We have showers and thunderstorms zooming in through Indianapolis. I'm going to zoom in to Indianapolis and kind of give you an idea. That just this line -- it's called a bow. This bow right through here just slammed through Indianapolis in the past half hour.

Now what does that mean? That means that on the leading edge of this bow, that's where the winds are the strongest. And that bow was right through Indianapolis on the north and south side of town. We know there has been some damage, although probably not as much as could have happened with another ten miles per hour. Because the damage goes up exponentially when you go from 55 to 65 to 70 miles per hour. Most of the wind gusts somewhere between 55 and 68.

Louisville, you've had quite a bit of damage today from flooding, not from wind. Just an awful lot of rain has come down in your town today.

Talk about a couple more things I want to get to: Enrique and Felicia. Here's the west coast of the U.S. Two tropical storms. And that one right there, that one's up to 70 miles per hour right now. Enrique, just the one off to the east, it's 60 miles per hour. And then Felicia, which is the strongest storm, just went up in the past half hour or so. Felicia all the way up to 70 miles per hour with wind gusts all the way to 85.

And one more thing. I know you think there's not going to be a hurricane season in the Atlantic, but, trust me, there will be. One area of interest way out here. Here's South America. There's the U.S. There's Africa. Right there, No. 1, that No. 1 says, an area of showers and thunderstorms several hundred miles from the Cape Verde islands. Any significant development of the storm is expected to be slow, but it looks pretty good right now. We'll keep watching it. It's a long way from the U.S. or from the Caribbean, but, you know, this is where they start.


MYERS: So, we'll keep watching.

PHILLIPS: You never know sometimes where they're going to go.

MYERS: You bet.

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Chad.

MYERS: if you want to go to this Web site.

PHILLIPS: OK,, got it. If not watching you.

MYERS: That's right.

MILLER: Thanks, Chad.

MYERS: Sure.

MILLER: President Obama has vowed to close the prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. But what about the detainees? CNN's Jeanne Meserve says one possibility is to house them and try them under one roof.


JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The possibility that Guantanamo detainees might be headed for the military prison at Ft. Leavenworth has Kansas officials in an uproar.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Transferring terror suspects here places a bull's-eye on this community.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a bad idea on an artificial, hurry-up timeline.

MESERVE: Administration officials say Ft. Leavenworth and the maximum security prison in Standish, Michigan, are being considered as possible multi-purpose destinations for detainees that could contain courtrooms for both federal criminal trials and military commissions, and house, in one place, detainees, now being sorted into three groups. Those being held for trial, those being indefinitely detained, and those cleared for release but without a country to take them.

In Standish, Michigan, where the unemployment rate stands at 24 percent, the maximum security prison is slated for closure. Some local officials support using it as a detainee facility to preserve jobs. But Michigan congressman Pete Hoekstra disagrees, saying "turning Michigan into a terrorist penal colony" is not the way to improve the economic situation.

For now, the White House is dodging the argument.

ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, I don't know to the degree to which they've gotten into specifics sighting, and certainly no final decisions of any sort have been made.

MESERVE (on camera): Housing and trying most of the detainees at one location could reduce costs and avoid the risk of moving suspects for trial.

On the other hand, moving prosecutors and judges and forming a jury pool could be a challenge. But probably nowhere near the challenge of overcoming local opposition.

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.


PHILLIPS: So, you call this a recess? House Speaker Nancy Pelosi campaigns for health care, far outside the Beltway.


PHILLIPS: Well, the speaker of the House is about to speak out on health care reform, but not in D.C. Nancy Pelosi is home in San Francisco at the start of a month-long recession that may feel more like a sales trip. She and many of her colleagues are making their cases for and against the Democratic reform plans and getting earfuls from the public.

Here's where things stand right now. Reform bills made it through three House committees before the August break. But the full House has yet to vote on any of them.

Then in the Senate the so-called Gang of Six from the finance committee is still trying to hammer out a bipartisan bill but has given up the goal of finishing by the end of this week. Now, the sticking points in both houses come down to costs/employer mandates and a so-called public option patterned on Medicare.

Well, if you want your brain to work well when you're older, keep an eye on your cholesterol now. New research shows that having high or moderate levels of your cholesterol in your 40's can raise your risk of developing dementia as you age. A new study found that people with cholesterol levels of 240 or higher increase their risk of getting the incurable brain disorder by 66 percent. Those whose cholesterol levels were between 200 or 239 increased their risk by 52 percent.

Well, they say that blondes have more fun, but redheads apparently have more pain. A new study shows that carrot tops are more difficult to numb for dental work and often require more anesthesia. Redheads have a mutation of the gene that produces them melanin which give them fair skin, freckles and ginger-colored hair. Blondes and brunettes don't have the mutation. Researchers believe that there is a link between the mutated gene and pain sensitivity. And by the way, the sensitivity warning only applies if you're a natural redhead.

Well, deciphering health care reform. Why can't Uncle Sam just come up with a sensible pricing plan for services? That's what one viewer wants to know. Our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is answering your questions in today's "Insider."


AMY KORST: Hi, my name is Cindy, and I'm calling from Covington, Georgia.

Dr. Gupta, my question is, why doesn't the government make mandatory prices for the doctors and their services? That's the problem, they all charge outrageous prices and vary from place to place. Will that change in a new plan?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, first of all, Cindy, you're absolutely right. You do you have these widely varied prices across the country.

For example, you might pay $6,000 for an operation in one state and $17,000 for that same operation in a different state. So, there really is no set pricing. Even when it comes to Medicare, for example.

What we're hearing are some specifics. For example, there would be caps on out-of-pocket expenses, deductibles, co-pays, things like that. And they want to reduce those prices overall. There would also be complete coverage when it come to preventive care. So, things like screenings and things that keep people healthy in the first place.

But, again, to your point out of all the committees and proposed bills, we're not hearing anything about set pricing across the board. That's something that they're just not talking about.

Now, having said that, when we talk about this idea of a public option being available, a government-run option available for people who cannot afford health care right now, in some ways that does have an influence overall on prices. If the public option is setting certain prices, that's going to have an influence on private insurers as well.

A couple of specifics about that public option. They say that no payment rates lower than Medicare, as it is right now. And no payment rates higher than all the average rate of the plans in this exchange. This is public/private exchange where people can go sort of buy health care, either the public plans or the private insurance plans.

So, I think the best way of characterizing this is that while there is no set price, there may be an influence overall on prices. Now, keep in mind a couple of things. None everyone's going to qualify for the public option. Your overall amount of income that you spend on health care insurance has to be above a certain percentage -- above 11 percent or 12 percent. So, if you're making $100,000 a year, for example, if you're not paying $11,000 or $12,000 a year towards health care insurance, you're probably not going to qualify for the public option. So, it's not going to be for everyone.

There have been some criticisms overall for the plan. People say, the critics say, look, if you have the public option on the table, it's going to be able to unfairly compete with private insurance companies and eventually start to crowd out private insurance companies.

Now, supporters say, look, there's no other way to achieve one of the goals people have been talking about for so long, which is to increase access to coverage. Now, the supporters say you simply can't do that without a public option. Well, it's the beginning of August right now. I'm telling you all these things with full knowledge that within a few weeks -- a month or so -- this is all likely to change again.

But that's a look, Cindy, at how things stand now.

Back to you again.


PHILLIPS: Well, teenage boys taken out on of their hopes and trained for terror. You're going to hear their stories only on CNN.


PHILLIPS: All right. Let's talk bankruptcy. You've of heard of Chapter 7 and Chapter 11, right? But have you ever heard of Chapter 9? It's rare, and it's kind of scary and might be the only way out for Detroit schools. Has it really come to this? We're pushing that forward next hour.

Boys as young as 13, brainwashed and trained to kill. Pakistan says it's rescued about a dozen of them from the Taliban.

But as CNN's Stan Grant reports from Mingora, Pakistan, these boys are anything but free.


STAN GRANT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Look into the eyes of these boys. Pakistan's military says these are the lost souls of the Taliban's terror.

The boys told me they were stolen from their families, abused, beaten and brainwashed by the Taliban.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The first day they beat us. Then they made us exercise. They made us run and told us, you will wage jihad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They told us that the army is against the Koran, it is against Islam. They said, wage jihad against them.

GRANT: The Pakistan military gave CNN limited access to these boys. The army says they rescued them during heavy fighting with the Taliban in Pakistan's Swat Valley.

Their faces are covered. Their identities protected, because of the possibility of retribution. The youngest is only 13. We can't independently verify their stories, but doctors say they have no doubt about their trauma.

The boys themselves each told me how they were kidnapped by the Taliban.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I was coming from the shop to my house. I had some stuff with me. They said, put your stuff in the car. They said, should we drop you in the village or in the square? When we reached the village, I said, I want to get off here, but they blindfolded me and put a hand on my mouth.

GRANT: Other boys say they were snatched working in the fields. In militant camps they say they were being trained to be suicide bombers, to do the Taliban's killing.

(on camera): Would you kill for God?

(voice-over): Yes, he says.

(on camera): In the right circumstances or the wrong circumstances, would they kill?

AMY KORST: (INAUDIBLE). They wouldn't even feel it.

GRANT: They'd kill and they wouldn't feel it?

AMY KORST: They probably wouldn't have an empathetic response to what has happened.

GRANT (voice-over): These boys have been so badly damaged by this experience, psychiatrists say it's difficult to know exactly how they are feeling. The doctors say some are psychotic, some psychopathic and some pose a very real risk.

AMY KORST: In a statement from the army was that if he had a suicide jacket then he would have committed suicide and he if had a (INAUDIBLE), he would have fired.

GRANT: Dr. Fariha Peracha tells army chiefs they are just the tip of the iceberg. After talking to the boys, she believe there are possibly hundreds of others just like them.

(on camera): Are the boys brainwashed?

DR. FARIHA PERACHA, PSYCHIATRIST: Yes, of course. They're brainwashed against you and me.

GRANT (voice-mail): The army hopes the boys will one day be able to be rehabilitated and returned to their families. But the doctor says they should be under close valence at least for the next decade.

PERACHA: These children, except for two, don't certainly give me any indication that they are rehabilitated. So, if they're going to gauge their future on the perspective of today or where they are, that future doesn't look very rosy, does it.

GRANT: But Dr. Fariha does not blame these boys. They are the innocent victims, she says. All they are left with, they told me, are the voices in their heads, voices of the Taliban commanding them to kill.

Stan Grant, CNN, Mingora, Pakistan.


PHILLIPS: An empty trash can for a full year. It's a great goal, but in these days of disposable everything, is it doable? Meet a couple.


PHILLIPS: Well, a lot of days our "What The's" are outrage stories. But this time something pretty outstanding. You probably know the old saying, "Waste not, want not," right? Well, one Oregon couple wants to waste not for a whole year.

More now from Erica Hartquist of our affiliate KGW.


ERICA HARTQUIST, KGW REPORTER (voice-over): You could call the Korsts your average American couple. A couple with an idea.

AMY KORST, GREEN GARBAGE PROJECT: I think it's easier than we thought it would be actually. It really, really is.


HARTQUIST: Try to go trash free for an entire year.

AMY KORST: Our compost is also under the sink. So, all of our food scraps go in here.

HARTQUIST: From a compost pile, an extensive vegetable garden to more than half a dozen different recycling bins.

AMY KORST: We have the normal curbside recycle, anything that we can take out to the curb goes in this bad.

HARTQUIST: After four weeks, so far, so good.

AMY KORST: In four weeks this is the garbage that we have produced for the landfill.

HARTQUIST: The only trash they've produced? Just these small eight items kept in these shoebox. Among them some pet flea medicine, two pieces of tape --

AMY KORST: This is a squeaky toy that got run over by the lawn mower.

HARTQUIST: But the project has not been without a few challenges.

ADAM KORST: You go to a coffee house and get a mocha. Well, before you do that, you need to check and see what kind of plastic cup they use or bring your own cup, or, just make sure that it's recycleable. So it's presented a few issues, but, we've worked through all of them.

HARTQUIST (on camera): The couple says that they are taking baby steps. Obviously they're still using their cars. But they say when they make trips, let's say to Portland, to go to a recycling center it's usually while they're headed to Washington, to visit relatives.

ADAM KORST: Hey, we're on the way, let's drop it off on the way. It's how can we combine things as much as we can?

HARTQUIST (voice-over): They say that anybody can live essentially trash-free. They just need to do the research first.

AMY KORST, GREEN GARBAGE PROJECT: Research what's recyclable in your facility, then go to the grocery store and making sure that you're only buying products that are recyclable.

ADAM KORST: We think we're doing something good and it feels good for us to do it.


PHILLIPS: Yes, but can they do it? If you want to know more about the Green Garbage Project, keep it right here because I'll be talking to Amy Korst next hour about exactly what they're doing and why they're doing it.

Well, we still don't know whether Cash for Clunkers has legs or will sputter to a halt before the end of its second week. But this much is clear -- for the clunkers, this is really the end of the line.

CNN's Jason Carroll has proof and I should warn you, if you love old cars, you may find this report a bit disturbing.


JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, Kyra, one estimate shows some 120,000 cars were traded in under the Cash for Clunkers program. A lot of folks have written in asking if those trade-ins are not supposed to go back on the road, where do they end up going?

Well, Kyra, we finally have an answer for you.

(voice-over): Major automakers reporting a boost in sales, thanks to the government's Cash for Clunkers program. Consumers giving thanks, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, I got $4,500 for this vehicle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dealers -- they're happy for it.

CARROLL: Official numbers not in yet. But already tens of thousands of owners have dumped their old cars for new ones. What happens to the old ones? A fluid put into the engines at the dealership makes them unusable. What's next?

DAN SAVIGNANO, APACHE AUTO WRECKERS: So, this is the first step where they come in over here.

CARROLL: Most end up at salvage yards like this one in Ridgefield Park, New Jersey.

SAVIGNANO: It's definitely helped our business out.

CARROLL: Dan S. took us on a step-by-step process of de-clunking the clunkers. Step one, evaluation.

SAVIGNANO: These cars came in right from a dealership in Teteboro, right there over the bridge.

CARROLL (on camera): So this is an example of what -- of some of the clunkers for cash that you're getting, right, these three?

SAVIGNANO: Yes, yes. So basically on this, normally if it wasn't a clunkers car I could save the doors, probably the air bags, sell them.

CARROLL (voice-over): The government program doesn't allow every car part to be recycled because they don't want certain parts back out on the road.

(on camera): What's the next step?

SAVIGNANO: Well, step two, when any car comes into our facility, we put it on this rack over here.

CARROLL (voice-over): Evaluation complete. Step two, draining.

SAVIGNANO: Rear-end fluids, brake fluids, all the fluids are trained here in this area.

CARROLL (on camera): The next step is to recycle the items that are allowed. In this case, the tires, the catalytic convertor, the battery, the condenser and the radiator. These are the only items from these types of cars that the program allows to be recycled. The next step? It's got to be crushed.

(voice-over): Once it resembles a metal pancake, it's done, ready for the final step, shredding.

SAVIGNANO: The little pieces about that big. And then it gets exported to any metal recyclers overseas. CARROLL (on camera): OK, at the end of the day if you had to give your assessment of this program, how it's been working for you so far, what would it be?

SAVIGNANO: Well, it's definitely built our relationships with the dealers out there also. And it also helps us to get you know, every little bit you can out of a car.

CARROLL: Under the program there have been some concerns that some of the trade-ins have been sold through auction and do end up back out in the streets.

Also, some environmentalists questions are just about how fuel efficient some of the new cars being bought are. Not in question at this point, Kyra, the financial success of the program. As you can see there from the story, the salvage yards are making money. The consumers seem to be happy, at least for now -- Kyra.


PHILLIPS: Jason Carroll, thanks so much.

Four decades ago, the killings and message of violence shocked the nation. What Charles Manson's followers are saying now.


PHILLIPS: Well, this coming Sunday marks an infamous anniversary. 40 years ago Charles Manson and his followers began a deranged killing spree hoping to start a race war. Now some of Manson's followers want to end their days free and are begging for parole.

Here our Ted Rowlands.


TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The psychopath who carved a swastika into his forehead is 74 now. Time has changed his face but peer into the eyes. They are as dark and penetrating as they were when the world first met Charles Manson. It has been 40 years since the messianic mad man and his disciples slaughtered seven people.

(on camera): And it began right here Cielo Drive (ph), a quiet, leafy cul-de-sac overlooking Beverly Hills. You see this security gate. Behind it there's a mansion. But In the 1960s, a much smaller house was at this address. It was home to two rising Hollywood stars. Director Roman Polansky (ph) and his wife, actress Sharon Tate.

(voice-over): At 26, Tate was young, beautiful. She was also 8 1/2 months pregnant when the killers arrived on August 9, 1969. On Manson's orders four members of his cult or the "family," as they were called went on a murder spree at the home with knives and fun. Before leaving they left a message on the front door, scrawled in blood, the word pig. The scene was horrific. But there would be more to come. (on camera): The next day Manson himself accompanied the group here to the home of a supermarket executive Leno LiBianca and his wife. Except for this gate and some remodeling the house today looks very much the same as it did when the Manson "family" entered the property and tortured the couple before killing them.

(voice-over): Again, more cryptic words in blood like, "rise" and "helter skelter," a reference to the Beatles song of the same name.

LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think the Manson murderers were the iconic crimes of the 1960s. They incorporated everything from the sexual fascination of Manson with his many women followers, to the Beatles music of the day, the outlandish courtroom circus that the trial became.

ROWLANDS: Manson was a 5'2" (INAUDIBLE) maniac, a man who spent more than half of his life behind bars before moving to California, where he portrayed himself as a hippie and a musician. He tracked the lonely, desperate and troubled, mostly women who traveled with him across the state until they moved into abandoned building on an old movie set outside of Los Angeles.

What was behind the murders?

BLOOM: Manson said he did it to try to start a race war. His theory was that blacks would win in a race war against the whites. They would be unable to govern and then he would emerge and take over.

ROWLANDS: In 1971, Manson and four of his followers were given the death penalty but the sentences were commuted to life when California abolished capitol punishment. Over the years, Manson has turned his parole hearings into a circus filled with wild antics and ramblings. He will likely die in prison, a fate other members of the so-called "family," want to avoid.

Susan Atkins, who has terminal cancer was denied parole last year but is up again next month. Leslie VanHouten is also longing for freedom. This is what she said in 2004.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was raised to be a decent human being. I've turned into a monster and I've spent these years going back to a decent human being. And I just don't know what else to say.

ROWLANDS: Ted Rowlands, CNN, Los Angeles.