Return to Transcripts main page

Nancy Grace

Mother Drags Child Through Store on Leash; Police Say Missing Idaho Boy`s Death Not An Accident; Still No Charges in Michael Jackson Death

Aired August 05, 2009 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Busy downtown shoppers stopped in their tracks when a young mom is spotted dragging -- repeat, dragging -- her little boy -- him no more than three feet tall -- by the neck on a leash across the floor. Look at this! The boy being dragged like a dog, the child down on the floor in a prone position. It is disgusting!

And here`s what`s even worse. Nobody stopped her. She dragged him the length of the store and then some. Well, if she does this in a Verizon store in front of stunned shoppers, what will she do at home behind closed doors, which, PS, is exactly where she is tonight, back in the home with the child. At home? Hey, police, have you ever heard the theory of lock the door and throw away the key? Mommy needs to go to the big house, the big dollhouse.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shocking video out of Georgia shows a mother dragging her child by a leash through a store, and she claims he liked it. The disturbing video was discovered after investigators arrested the mother, charging her with first degree cruelty to a child, punishable by up to 20 years behind bars. Thirty-seven-year-old mom Melissa Means told cops she suffers from lupus and pneumonia and couldn`t pick up her son, who was refusing to walk. That`s when she proceeded to drag the young boy across the floor. Department of family and children`s services was notified. The boy was later released to his grandmother.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And breaking news tonight, Idaho. The desperate search for a little 8-year-old boy ends tonight. As we go to air, it is confirmed the body of a little boy discovered floating in a local canal is that of 8- year-old Robert Manwill, the little boy reported missing from his mother`s apartment complex, seemingly vanishing into thin air.

And in another major break, new information from a 7-year-old little girl is set to blow this case wide open, the investigation shifting gears as new details emerge tonight. And where -- where`s the Mommy and the live-in when the little boy goes missing?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... the last hours of little Robert Manwill`s life, the little 8-year-old found dead in a little irrigation canal. A little girl just 7 years old says she was playing outside with little Robert Manwill the night he disappeared, July 24. She was on a green swing. He was on a red one. How do we get to that to finding one of these little kids dead?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tentative identification has been made of the body found in the New York Canal as that of 8-year-old Robert Manwill.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The coroner still trying to determine the cause of death. Again, he vanished on the 24th of July under what police call suspicious circumstances.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators from the Boise Police Department, with the assistance of the FBI, have located evidence that may -- may -- bring us closer to finding out what happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The evidence we`ve uncovered shows that there are suspicious circumstances regarding Robert`s disappearance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives say finding the body is the beginning of a brand-new investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our system of justice demands that we focus on evidence. Our investigative experience tells us that we cannot jump to conclusions. The police investigation into Robert`s disappearance continues and is very active. Our priority remains finding answers for Robert`s family and this community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Also, the mystery surrounding the sudden death of music icon Michael Jackson intensifies. Questions still mount as to his sudden death and half-a-billion-dollar empire. After murder charges leveled in the death of (ph), Jackson`s family publicly claiming he was murdered, multiple search warrants in Vegas and Houston, police seizing cell phone and computer hard drive images, vials of drugs, FedEx receipts, e-mails, a Rolodex, scores of documents all from Jackson`s private live-in doctor.

Numerous prescription drugs seized from Jackson`s home, and records from multiple doctors connected to the superstar now under subpoena. But after 41 days -- 41 days and nights -- Jackson`s body still on ice, no burial in sight. Why? And why -- why -- have there been no charges logged against those well-heeled doctors, the pharmacies, suppliers, and the entourage that doped up an addict until he died front of his own children. With blood allegedly on their hands, where is Lady Justice?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news out of Los Angeles (INAUDIBLE) court a judge has granted Michael Jackson`s mother, Katherine, custody of his three children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was another hearing, sort of a status hearing, that`s set for October. But at this moment, she`s going to have permanent custody.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was the singer`s wish that Michael, Jr., Paris and Blanket live with his mother. But what about Debbie Rowe?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Debbie Rowe will get visitation as recommended by a psychologist. There will be no financial payments made to Rowe, except for the continuation of spousal support payments.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But before all that was made official, major drama in the courtroom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dr. Arnold Klein`s lawyer stepped up at the very beginning of the hearing and said that Dr. Klein wanted to have a role in the children`s lives. And the judge said, On what basis? They went to a sidebar, explained themselves and went back, and the judge said no.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This came out of nowhere and was all so bizarre because of all the talk out there that Dr. Klein may actually be the biological father of these kids.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s still a lot of animosity there, and we probably haven`t heard the last of that dispute.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to think you for being with us. Busy downtown shoppers stopped in their tracks when a young mother spotted dragging -- repeat, dragging -- her little boy -- he`s no bigger than three feet tall -- by his neck on a leash across the floor. Now, if she`ll do this in a Verizon store in front of stunned shoppers, what do you think she does at home behind closed doors?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Georgia mother faces up to 20 years in jail after disturbing video captures her dragging her young son across a store by a leash. The mother, 37-year-old Melissa Means, is charged with first degree cruelty to children. Video captures the boy being pulled against his will across the floor of the store, while mom claims her son actually liked being pulled by the leash. Mom also cites multiple illnesses, including lupus and pneumonia, saying she couldn`t physically pick up the boy if she wanted to. Police say the child had a bruise on the left side of his neck from the leash. He was later released to his grandmother.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Eric Jens with WRGA Newsradio. Eric, this is highly disturbing. It`s my understanding that when someone finally called police, after all the people in the store just watched her drag the kid around on the floor -- nobody stopped her -- insane -- when police finally got there, she tried to say she had pneumonia and lupus?

ERIC JENS, WRGA NEWSRADIO: Yes. Thank you, Nancy. You have to wonder if, from the public standpoint, there wasn`t some level of shock going on, the reason that people didn`t call police any sooner. Obviously, it`s not acceptable to be dragging a child through a public store like that unchecked, not really even turning around...

GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wa-wa stop!

JENS: Go ahead.

GRACE: Put Jens up! It`s not unacceptable. Many people in the crime and justice community, Mr. Jens, will call this a felony. But please, go ahead.

JENS: It is, in fact, a charge of first degree child cruelty, which is, as you said, a felony. However, that`s mostly due to the fact that it was an intentional act and that there was some physical damage to the child, although it was not the kind of injury that required any kind of treatment or hospitalization, and from witnesses, since the act there appeared to be no long-term damage to the child.

GRACE: Really? No long-term damage to the child being dragged through a store by a leash around the neck on the floor as he lies supine, prone, in a lying position, clutching at his neck.

We are taking your calls live. Out to Rachel in Illinois. Hi, Rachel.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. We love you. Thank you for taking our call.

GRACE: Thank you for calling in, dear. What`s your question? Do you see this video?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I have a comment and a couple quick questions. My comment is, if she has pneumonia and lupus, she would not have the strength to drag the child through the Verizon store. Secondly, there`s some conflict in her story. She couldn`t pick him up to carry him, or he liked to be dragged. I`m kind of confused. Also, is she a single parent, and is there more than any -- is he the only child or are there more children in the house? And has there any abuse been named before, or is this the only time that we know of?

GRACE: All good questions, Rachel. My immediate question was, if she`s so sick, how does she drag him around the store that way? And you know, I`ve had Lucy and John David both when they don`t want to be picked up, they kind of go limp and they`ll sit down. They don`t care if they`re in the middle of a store, if they`re at a Burger King, if they`re out in a parking lot. They don`t care. Dragging them by the neck on a leash has never really been an a option.

I want to go out to Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner, forensic pathologist joining us out of Madison Heights, Michigan. Dr. Morrone, it`s great to see you again.

Good to see you again.

GRACE: Doctor, what can you tell me -- if this woman could drag her child by the neck on a leash like a dog -- how -- I mean, how does she not have the energy to pick him up? And how would lupus affect this?

DR. WILLIAM R. MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Your caller makes a really good point. An acute exacerbation of lupus and an acute exacerbation of pneumonia, she would be laying down at home in bed. It takes a lot of strength to drag somebody. Now, in a lupus flair, somebody will have muscle aches and they`ll have weakness, but she`s tooling (ph). She`s really hauling.

GRACE: I know. Look at this. Look, the child`s just lying there, and he`s getting dragged by his neck. Matt Zarrell, what can you tell me? Are there other children? And have there been any DFACS, department of child and family services, reports before?

MATTHEW ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: As far as we know, there have been no previous reports. However, DFCS was notified. The child was put into the custody of the grandmother for now, until the mother was released and later brought back to custody of the mother.

GRACE: But isn`t it true, Matt Zarrell, the mother is back in the home tonight with the little boy?

ZARRELL: Yes. And she says that, I guess bad things happen to good people.

GRACE: Everybody, quickly, are you guilty of being our show`s number one fan? Plead your case. Send us your story as to why that fan is you. We`re looking for stand-out stories, and if your e-mail or iReport makes air, you win an autographed copy of my new book, "The 11th Victim," and a chance to fly to New York and come to the show live right here on the set. Everybody get busy with those videocams and e-mails. Go to CNN.com/nancygrace.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Georgia mother faces up to 20 years in jail after disturbing video captures her dragging her young son across a store by a leash.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The video is all over the Internet. Tens of thousands have seen it already. There`s Mom. The video (INAUDIBLE) lasts about 20 seconds, pulling him throughout the Verizon wireless store. It`s in Rome, Georgia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mother, 37-year-old Melissa Means, was charged with first degree cruelty to children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would think this is a person who has a certain attitude, let`s say, about discipline, which is, you know, not a good one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mom also cites multiple illnesses, including lupus and pneumonia, saying she couldn`t physically picked up the boy if she wanted to. Police say the child had a bruise on the left side of his neck from the leash.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If they`re doing something pretty disgusting in public, then chances are they`re doing at least that, if not more, in private.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mom messed up here, clearly lost it as a parent, not what you want to do. But is it a felony?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... a woman dragging her child through a store in Georgia. There it is. The kid`s flat -- you know, we don`t know a lot of the back story. You figure the kid was having some kind of tantrum. That`s how Mom handled it. End result here, she`s charged with felony child cruelty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: She doesn`t look sick to me! Oh, no. And Mommy`s out at the Verizon wireless store, where stunned shoppers see her dragging her child by the neck on a leash through the store, him lying there in a prone position.

Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, out of New York, Susan Moss, child advocate, Renee Rockwell, defense attorney out of Atlanta, and renowned attorney Alex Sanchez, defense attorney, joining us out of New York. Go ahead, Sue.

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY, CHILD ADVOCATE: She dragged her son by a leash? She should be in jail, capisce? What happens at home? Do they make this kid sleep in a crate? Look, if this wasn`t her son and she dragged some stranger by a neck with a leash, clearly a felony. Just because it`s her son, she should not be treated any differently.

GRACE: Renee Rockwell, earlier, our reporter, Eric Jens with WRGA, mentioned there was no lasting injury, which, of course, is not a requirement for felony child cruelty. I do know the child`s neck was bruised and red from the leash around the neck. Thoughts?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I don`t know that -- after they get down to the bottom of this investigation, I don`t know that it`s going to show that there was anything around the child`s neck. This was one of these little monkey backpacks. And if the truth be known, the child was probably enjoying it. The child`s being dragged.

GRACE: Please put Rockwell`s picture up!

ROCKWELL: You see it right now.

GRACE: Put her picture up!

ROCKWELL: You see it right now. The child is being drug on the carpet not from his neck, but from the backpack, the back of his backpack. And the mother`s objecting to the video being only so long because she says that after he stood up, he was laughing and grabbing her by the legs. He probably thought it was a lot of fun and a joke, Nancy. I don`t see this going down as a felony. Certainly no jail time.

GRACE: What can you tell me, Matt Zarrell, about the child laughing?

ZARRELL: Well, the family is telling us that part of the video we don`t see is that she is -- is that he is happy and laughing with the mother. However, it appears from this video he does not look very happy.

GRACE: Well, why didn`t the mom say that when police first came up to her? Instead, she said, He wouldn`t stand up, he wouldn`t cooperate. I`m having a hard time with him. He`s not doing what I`m telling him to do. That`s why I had to drag him. Plus, I have lupus and pneumonia. I didn`t hear anything about there a being a game that they were playing.

ZARRELL: Well, she threw out a couple different excuses, including the pneumonia, including she couldn`t lift the child up. And then she noted at the end, Oh, yes, my son likes this backpack and likes when I drag him.

GRACE: Let`s go out to Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation -- Marc.

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, Nancy, I kind of agree a little bit with Renee, surprisingly enough. I think 16 seconds worth of videotape is not enough to condemn a woman to 20 years in prison for. This could very well be certainly a bad judgment, but a woman and her son young having a terribly bad day.

GRACE: A bad day. OK. Marc Klaas, from you, I have to say I`m surprised. Alex Sanchez, there`s not going to be a 20-year jail sentence. That`s not going to happen. Twenty-year-to-life jail sentences on child cruelty or aggravated child cruelty is the result of severe beatings, cigarette burnings, sodomy or rape of a child. She is not going to get 20 years behind bars for this. But in my mind, it does rise to a crime.

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I disagree with you. I don`t think it does rise to a crime. And I think if you look at that videotape, I think we need to clarify very clearly this was not a leash around the neck that you might find on a dog. And if you`re pulling somebody with a leash like that, you may seriously hurt them. This was a different type of leash entirely.

This child was not being hurt. It turns out the kid did not suffer any type of serious injury. So where`s the crime? She`s never been in trouble before.

GRACE: You know, Alex, when children...

SANCHEZ: Why don`t we give her the benefit of the doubt?

GRACE: That`s for a jury to do. Say when a child is locked in a steaming hot minivan and left out in a parking lot for a couple hours, the child doesn`t die. It doesn`t have heat stroke. It lives. So does that lessen what the parents did to the child? Does it mean it didn`t happen?

SANCHEZ: There was no intention here. The child was not hurt. And as Marc said, this was an isolated incident.

GRACE: You don`t know that.

SANCHEZ: The video shows 16 seconds. Listen, this kid is -- I`m sure the department of child welfare...

GRACE: OK. Hold on.

SANCHEZ: ... is investigating...

GRACE: Dr. Saunders...

SANCHEZ: ... whether or not this child...

GRACE: Patricia Saunders, weigh in.

PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: This is a critical failure in a parent`s judgment. Whether the child enjoyed it or not is irrelevant. He is at risk. Somebody could have stepped on his head. He could have swung into a corner and fractured his skull. It`s dangerous.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... surveillance video of a mom dragging her child across the floor at a cell phone store. Number one, are you going to do that at a cell phone store? Someone`s flipping on the cell phone video, and that`s what`s happening here -- dragging around her son like a dog on a leash. Police locked her up. She`s facing a felony.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shocking video out of Georgia shows a mother dragging her child by a leash through a store, and she claims he liked it. The disturbing video was discovered after investigators arrested the mother, charging her with first degree cruelty to a child, punishable by up to 20 years behind bars. Thirty-seven-year-old mom Melissa Means told cops she suffers from lupus and pneumonia and couldn`t pick up her son, who was refusing to walk. That`s when she proceeded to drag the young boy across the floor. Department of family and children`s services were notified. The boy was later released to his grandmother.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to the lines. Beverly in New York. Hi, Beverly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Welcome back.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a comment and a question.

GRACE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to know why our society has become so insensitive to this dysfunctional behavior. And my question is, why is he reunited with his mom now?

GRACE: That`s my big question tonight, Beverly in New York. I want to go to Eric Jens, veteran reporter joining us from WRGA Newsradio. Eric, I understand this is one of those backpack leashes that he had -- that he was wearing. I`ve seen a lot of them. My question is, why is the child back in the home with the mother tonight? And are they being supervised?

JENS: To my knowledge, there is no intense or certainly very minimal supervision involved in this case at this point. As you mentioned, DFACS was notified. They looked at the situation. They looked at her prior record, of which there is none, and they determined that it was a safe environment for the child to return to.

GRACE: Here are photos of various monkey harnesses from Amazon.com.

To Laura in New York. Hi, Laura. Oh, in North Carolina. Hi, dear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call.

GRACE: Yes, ma`am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am concerned about the child welfare. This is ridiculous. And it`s not only there in Georgia, it`s all over the country. Look at the children that are dead because mothers were allowed to drag or beat, and society does nothing and the officials do nothing.

GRACE: You know, to Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist. It`s my observation from trying so many cases, being in the courthouse, you know, for over a decade, that crimes on children are treated less seriously. There are lighter sentences. Murder cases are dropped down to voluntary manslaughters. I don`t understand that. Why the attitude?

SAUNDERS: The only thing I can think of, Nancy, is that people have some mythology that children get over things and they`re not as vulnerable as they, in fact, are.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a person who has a certain attitude, let`s say, about discipline, which is, you know, not a good one. It doesn`t teach your child anything. It humiliates your child. It harms your child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The body of the boy found in the New York Canal on Monday has been positively identified this afternoon as that of 8-year-old Robert Manwill. Preliminary results from the autopsy give us reason to believe that 8-year-old Robert Manwill`s death was not an accident.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The timeline of the night Robert Manwill vanished has been murky but now has the investigation been blown wide open?

And "Idaho Statesman" report claims a 7-year-old girl who lives in the neighborhood saw Robert the night he disappeared. The little girl certain she saw Robert on the complex swing set, even seeing him jump off to play on the toy motorcycle.

The girl`s parents think she came home around 7:30, about the same time the girl claims Robert left for his mother`s apartment. Report say the girl and her family, questioned multiple times by the FBI, has authorities out in full force trying to determine who might be responsible for Robert`s death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The case is now being investigated by the Boise Police Department as a homicide. There remains no evidence that Robert was abducted by a stranger. We believe we will determine how and when Robert died and who is responsible, and we will hold those responsible for Robert`s death accountable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: It is very clear from the words of the police, you`re hearing a press release that is just happening as we go to air tonight, that someone intentionally killed an 8-year-old little boy, an 8-year-old little boy.

What is that? Second grade? A second grader? His body has been found in a nearby body of water. Who killed this child? And disposed of his body in this waterway?

And another thing, out to you, Clark Goldband, our producer on the story. This is what I don`t understand. I`m not getting a clear picture of what mommy and her live-in have to say about the timeline.

Didn`t we get the stories from somewhere that they thought the little boy, an 8-year-old, had gone to a party at 7:30 at night? I don`t get it. My twins are in their pajamas at home at 7:30 at night.

CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Yes, Nancy. There are conflicting stories on what happened. We had heard two versions of events. The first version being that Robert had asked his mom and her boyfriend that he wanted to go to a party and may have left anyway.

The other version that we`re also hearing is now that Robert was at a playground around 7:30 at night. Went back to his apartment and that advances the timeline there.

Now there is breaking news at a press conference that just concluded moments ago. Law enforcement has positively identified Robert Manwill. Repeat, we can confirm that this is Robert Manwill`s body. Law enforcement also saying they have reason to believe that this was not an accident but it may be a murder.

GRACE: Not an accident. Out to Greg Hahn, the editor of "Idaho Statesman." Greg, thank you for being with us. What can you tell me about a new witness that is emerging, a 7-year-old little girl?

GREG HAHN, EDITOR, IDAHO STATESMAN; COVERING STORY (via phone): Well, we first -- we started hearing about her a couple of days ago. Well, we finally talked to her yesterday. And, in fact, the little girl had a very clear memory. She told her parents as soon as they heard that night that Robert was missing. She remembered what color swing she was on, what color swing he was on.

And like he just said, she got off, he played on the motorcycle a little bit and then went home. It`s really the closest we`ve been able to get to talk to somebody who actually saw him that day.

GRACE: So she said, Greg Hahn, and Greg joining us from the "Idaho Statesman," that they were on a swing. One was on a red swing. One was on a green swing. He got off to go play on a motorcycle? What motorcycle? Why was he on a motorcycle?

HAHN: I think it`s just a toy there in the playground.

GRACE: Oh I see.

HAHN: You know like one of those.

GRACE: I get it.

HAHN: Little rocking.

GRACE: Yes. You get on and then you rock back and forth. I got it. OK, Greg, next question. The child is -- because that was scary to me that some unknown person may have park add motorcycle there.

HAHN: I know, you know.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: OK. So next thing, he went home from playing on the playground. The child knows that. Could she see his apartment from the playground? Was it, for instance, a horseshoe-shaped apartment complex? Was the playground in the middle?

HAHN: It is -- not all the apartments can be seen from the playground and I`m not 100 percent sure. I`m not sure where they all line up, but I think she said he was going home and she said she was going home and it was about 7:30.

GRACE: 7:30 p.m. And Greg Hahn, was this a week night or a weekend night?

HAHN: This is Friday night. Friday night.

GRACE: So.

HAHN: And here again -- and I should point out. It does stay light pretty late in Boise in the summertime.

GRACE: Yes. Yes.

HAHN: You know? Well after 9:00.

GRACE: Until 9:00. OK. We are taking your calls live. Out to Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. Why did mommy quit coming to the press conferences, Marc Klaas?

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I don`t know why mommy kept coming to the press conferences but I do know that 7:30 p.m. starts to establish a timeline that maybe is a little bit believable. For the first time in this case and it`s been problematic all the way through because we`ve never really known when the little boy was last seen, who he was last seen with, or where he was.

So at least now law enforcement is starting to hone in on something like this. Now I know when law enforcement confirmed to her that it was probably her son that was in the canal that she was escorted away from the police department, that she was crying and that she was being supported by a couple of people and that the family then asked for their privacy.

And that, quite frankly, is very consistent with the very same experience we had when we were informed that Polly was -- Polly had been found.

GRACE: I understand. And that makes perfect sense to me. Marc Klaas who`s joining us from San Francisco, the president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation.

We are taking your calls. Out to Tracey in North Carolina, hi, Tracey.

TRACEY, CALLER FROM NORTH CAROLINA: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call.

GRACE: Thank you for calling in, dear. What`s your question?

TRACEY: I love you. I just can`t understand why that mother would have custody of that little boy after she`s already had a child, which I understand, is a head injury? And why in God`s name would somebody give her a child and she`s already abused one assumptionly. And I just can`t understand it. It breaks my heart.

GRACE: Out to Clark Goldband, our producer on the story. Joining us out of New York.

Clark, explain to me what happened to the other child.

GOLDBAND: OK, Nancy, just one clarification there for the caller. She didn`t have custody of the child. The child had visitation rights. We`re not clear how often he saw her. But what happened was.

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, wait. What child? Who is she? Please, use personal pronouns, Clark.

GOLDBAND: Robert Manwill was visiting his mom who is -- mom`s name is Melissa Scott Jenkins. She had -- she didn`t have custody. Had visitation rights. I`m sorry about that, Nancy. I stand corrected.

GRACE: So she didn`t even have custody. Why didn`t she have custody? Because of what happened with the first child?

GOLDBAND: No, it`s a younger child. She pled guilty in March to a misdemeanor of injury to a child. Court records show us that she apparently fractured that child`s skull by striking him against a hard surface.

GRACE: Repeat.

GOLDBAND: She pled guilty to misdemeanor charge of injury to a child. She apparently, from court records, struck the child`s head on a hard surface and caused contusion injury.

GRACE: And what was her sentence in that case, Clark Goldband?

GOLDBAND: Well, she was sentenced to 29 days work release and paid a fine of $75.50.

GRACE: No parenting classes? No jail time? Nothing? And then she`s got unsupervised visitation with this child?

GOLDBAND: That`s our understanding.

GRACE: OK. Let`s go to the lawyers, Susan Moss, Renee Rockwell, Alex Sanchez.

What about it, Sue Moss?

SUSAN MOSS, CHILD ADVOCATE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: And then add to the picture that the first story that was reported in the press was that she said that this 8-year-old went -- wanted to go to a party at 9:30.

Now an 8-year-old has to be pretty hardy to go to a 9:30 party. It`s absolutely ridiculous. So the timeline may not have been released because it was so absolutely fabricated and ridiculous that it wouldn`t have done any good to help solve this case.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live on this case. What happened to this 8-year-old little boy? As we go to air, a police presser stating his death is not an accident. Why did this 8-year-old little boy die? Who is responsible for killing this child and discarding his body in a local waterway?

We are taking your calls. We want justice. For Robert Manwill.

Very quickly to tonight`s safety tips on preventing fires. Please, be aware of potential hazards in your home. Lots of home fires are caused by electrical devices installed improperly. Check those appliances, cords, outlet.

Cooking, also the leading cause of house fires. Don`t leave your food unsupervised on the stove or in the oven. Turn the pot handles in so they won`t be accidentally knocked over. And keep those fire extinguishers handy.

Don`t smoke in bed. Put out cigarettes before you throw them in the trash. Never let children play with matches or lighters. Make sure smoke alarms are working. And change the batteries every year.

It`s not that hard. Have a fire escape plan. For more go to the National Prevention Association at N, F as in Frank, P Polly, A Alpha, .org.

ANNOUNCER: "Nancy Safety Tips" brought to you by.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There remains no evidence that Robert was abducted by a stranger. We believe we will determine how and when Robert died and who is responsible. And we will hold those responsible for Robert`s death accountable.

Our focus today remains the same as it was on July 24th on Robert. And to find answers to what happened to cut short the life of this little boy. This is now a criminal investigation. And our justice system demands criminal investigations, no matter how complex, be thorough and methodical.

Please understand we cannot compromise the legal procedures and the integrity of this very important case with a premature release of investigative details.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: To Dr. William Morrone, joining us out of Madison Heights, Michigan. Dr. Morrone, the child`s body has been under water for some time. How can they look at and know this was not an accident. Translation. It was a homicide. If it`s not an accident that only leaves suicide and homicide.

DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: What they`re going to do is look at radiographic x-rays and those x-rays are possibly going to show signs of trauma. They`re going to look for bruises. And all those things are not going to be related to accidents. They`re going to be related to abuse because perpetrators do the same thing. They have the same model over and over.

GRACE: Out to Bill Majeski, special guest joining us, former NYPD detective. He is now president of Majeski Associates. Bill, as always, thank you for being with us.

Bill, what do you make of the 7-year-old little girl that blows open the timeline. This child was not going to any party as we were told before. An 8-year-old out at a party at 7:30 at night. That`s simply BS.

BILL MAJESKI, FMR. NYPD DETECTIVE, MAJESKI ASSOCIATES, INC.: I think she has become an integral part of this investigation. The chief in this press conference spoke volumes saying that there was no evidence linking some kind of an abduction from an outsider or a stranger.

It`s clear to me that they are on to something with their investigative process. They`re probably very close to reaching a conclusion on that process. He`s somewhat apologetic about not giving information to the public, which is the correct thing to do.

GRACE: Yes.

MAJESKI: It`s going to wind up being something that`s very close. The young girl that gave the information, it`s extremely interesting information and important information because it now establishes a new timeline that the police can go forward on. They`re going to go back, re- interview a lot of people, and move forward on this very quickly.

GRACE: Everyone, we are taking your calls live. But very quickly, why no charges? I guess a bunch of well healed medical physicians, pharmacies, and an entourage, they gave dope to a known addict until he died in front of his own children.

Yes. I`m talking about Michael Jackson. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The parties and the California court brought about a result that is selfless and wise. Everyone sought the same objective, doing what was best for the children of Debbie Rowe and Michael Jackson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news out of Los Angeles, a judge has granted Michael Jackson`s mother Katharine custody of his three children. Last week she and Michael`s ex-wife Debbie Rowe came to a custody agreement over the two older kids.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rowe waved her parental rights in 2001 telling a Los Angeles court, quote, "They are his children," all part of an $8.5 million settlement in which the pop star got full custody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The battle over Jackson`s assets, of course, is also center stage as Katherine Jackson seeks to gain some control over his multi-million dollar estate. She and the singer`s children will all get monthly allowances.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s getting 40 percent of the estate and the kids get the other 40 and she`s the guardian so she does have a role and a right to know things. The issue here is really information. Katherine Jackson`s lawyers saying they`re being kept in the dark and there seems to be this veil of suspicion over what is in the estate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mrs. Jackson really wants just a seat at the table. She wants some control and some money.

JERMAINE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S BROTHER: Anybody that tries to contest this will on any level, whether it`s with the executors or with anything, they`re not living out Michael`s wishes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You know what? Forget about the money. Forget about the will. Forget about the fact that Jackson was charged with child molestation because right now we`re looking at a homicide investigation, a potential homicide investigation, and to you, Alan Duke, entertainment editor, CNN Wire, here`s my thinking.

I`ve had to argue to many juries. For instance, when I had a dope murder. A lot of juries are happy a dope dealer is dead. They`re grateful. But that`s not the point. The point is, did a murder take place regardless of who the victim is? Lady Justice is supposed to be blind, remember?

So I guarantee you, if I shot somebody up in the neck with propofol and they died an hour later of a cardiac arrest, I would be under the jail right now.

ALAN DUKE, ENTERTAINMENT EDITOR, CNN WIRE: Well, we can expect that there eventually will be charges. There`s a very vigorous investigation.

GRACE: It`s been 41 days, Alan.

DUKE: Well, and it`s -- there have been searches. We don`t know when there might be charges brought. We do know that almost a week ago the Los Angeles district attorney met with the coroner and the detectives from the Los Angeles Police Department.

At the end of that meeting the coroner emerged or at least a spokesman for the coroner emerged and said they have no idea when they`re going to release the autopsy results. We confirmed again today. It`s not coming this week.

GRACE: OK.

DUKE: We`re not going to hear that this week.

GRACE: Ellie Jostad, autopsy results aside, when they`re going to be released, fine. We knew that they were going to be slow in releasing that and the toxicology reports. What I`m wondering about is, are there going to be charges or -- because these are well healed educated doctors, pharmacy, famous celebrity hangers-on, nobody`s going to do anything.

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, as Alan mentioned, we do know about at least five searches. You`ve got Dr. Conrad Murray`s offices in Houston, his offices in Las Vegas, and way back at the beginning of the investigation, LAPD spokesperson said three different warrants served in Los Angeles.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: I want to thank you so much for all of your calls and your e-mails about my book, "Eleventh Victim." It comes out on August 11. You were the very first to see it right now. Of course after Lucy, pictured here, who grabbed it first.

It`s about a prosecutor who tries her best to give up criminal law and start a new life. But when her friends are murdered, one by one, the NYPD hones in on her.

It took me years to write this book. I started when I first left felony prosecution. And I missed it so much. Since then I wrote another book and published it. Launched this show with my producer, Dean. Got married. Got pregnant. Gave birth. Nearly died. Didn`t. And finished the book.

I hope you like it. Part of my proceeds go to a charity, Wesley Glenn, who takes care of the mentally handicapped that need a loving home. You can find this book on our Web site.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to applaud Debbie Rowe. She`s faced difficulties and pressures none of us know, and today`s agreement shows that she responded with heart, integrity, and selflessness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Kelli Zink, host of CelebTV.com. Kelli, come on. The guy had fresh needle marks in his neck. He didn`t do that himself.

KELLI ZINK, HOST, CELEBTV.COM: Well, we don`t know exactly what happened, Nancy. I mean a source has revealed that Dr. Murray did administer the drug propofol to Michael Jackson but until the toxicology report comes back we can`t name him as the suspect. No matter what -- not matter how many searches, no matter what people are saying or what evidence comes back, we can`t convict this guy unless we know for sure what killed Michael Jackson.

GRACE: Our to the lines, Scarlet in Washington state. Hi, Scarlet.

SCARLET, CALLER FROM WASHINGTON STATE: Hi, Nancy. My question is, as sheltered as these children were, and the fact that they were there at the time of death, why aren`t these children having a psych evaluation?

If this was any other person I believe that CPS would step in and do that to the children. Why isn`t that happening to these children.

GRACE: Dr. Saunders?

PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I think that`s a very good point. It`s a traumatic experience for them. We don`t know what else they witnessed when their father was on drugs.

GRACE: Susan Moss, weigh in.

MOSS: The children represented by counsel when this custody deal was done.

GRACE: Renee?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I just think that we don`t know what`s going on with the children. There`s so many factors going on with the fight, the grandfather potentially coming in and having access to the kids, their grandmother.

GRACE: What about it, Alex?

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And more likely than not these kids probably were evaluated. They`re probably seeing a psychiatrist or a counsel at the present moment to help them adjust to the situation.

GRACE: The only photos we`ve seen are of them around a swimming pool.

Everybody, let`s stop and remember Army Staff Sergeant Eric Caban, 28, Fort Worth, Texas. On second tour, left studies at UFT, Arlington to reenlist. A Green Beret, highly decorated. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, and three Army Achievement Medals.

Remembered as the life of the party. Big heart. Loved sports. Favorite team, Texas Rangers, Dallas Mavericks and New York Giants. Leaves behind parents Iris and Efren. Brothers Edwin and Efren Jr.

Eric Caban, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but our biggest thank you to you for being with me, and thank you to the wonderful family who tucked our cars off this morning so we could make it to the airport and I could come back to work with the twins.

Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.

END