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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Husband of Fatal Drunk Driver in Denial; Parody Videos Latest Crazy on YouTube; Killer`s Search for Love?;
Aired August 07, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight tragic denial in the death of a New York soccer mom who killed seven people and herself in a drunk-driving accident, including three children. Cops say the woman was extremely drunk and high on marijuana when she drove the wrong way on a highway for almost two miles. Her husband now vehemently denying the allegations she was an alcoholic, saying, "I never saw her drunk since the day I met her."
Meanwhile, he`s come up with what some say are bizarre excuses for her behavior, including diabetes, an abscessed tooth and a moving lump on her leg. So how does he explain the big bottle of vodka that was found in her minivan?
Also inside the mind of a deranged killer. Disturbing new details about the woman-hating gunman who killed three women inside a fitness center. Now we`re finding out this monster recently attended dating seminars on how to meet women. Did he justify this massacre because he just couldn`t get a girlfriend?
And Jon Gosselin fights back. "In Touch Weekly" reports the dad from "Jon & Kate Plus Eight" says he`s tired of being blamed for the couple`s divorce. He`s denying being a womanizer. He professes love for a new girlfriend and rips into Kate, claiming she`s exploiting the kids to get more time on TV. What?
Plus cue the hip-hop music and dance your way down the wedding aisle. The latest YouTube sensation was quickly followed by the hilarious divorce dance. Why are these imitation viral videos quickly morphing into the latest culture craze? It`s a story you`ll only find on ISSUES.
ISSUES starts now.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight jaw-dropping claims and beyond bizarre behavior in the wake of highway carnage. The coroner is standing by the initial autopsy of Diane Schuler. She is the 36-year-old soccer man and cable-company executive at the center of a deadly storm.
Schuler was driving her minivan, carrying her own two kids and three nieces home from a camping trip when she collided head on with an SUV and killed three people in that car. She had been driving down the highway the wrong way for almost two miles. Total dead: eight.
The toxicology report says she had a blood alcohol content level of .19. That is equivalent to 10 drinks. There were also six grahams of undigested booze in her belly. And there was toxicology evidence of pot.
But it seems none of this scientific proof was enough to convince her grief-stricken husband.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIEL SCHULER: I go to bed every night knowing my heart is clear. She did not drink. She`s not an alcoholic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you trying to say that you do not believe the toxicology report, that she was not drunk?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It cannot be true.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re saying there`s no way she could be drunk?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No way.
SCHULER: No way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bottle of vodka that they found?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it can`t be true.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don`t -- we don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: "The New York Post" reporting that Daniel refused to attend a meeting with New York state investigators. He also dismissed the report in that very same paper that an alleged bar buddy of his wife said Diane, quote, "liked her vodka."
Yesterday`s news conference held by Daniel Schuler and his high- profile attorney, Dominic Barbara, was raucous and often confrontational; some would even say strange.
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DOMINIC BARBARA, ATTORNEY FOR DANIEL SCHULER: I`m going to wait until you get done. OK? When you`re done I`ll talk. I don`t have enough pressure today. If you want a question, you raise your hand. If not, I`ll never point to you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it possible she was an alcoholic and you didn`t know about it?
SCHULER: No.
BARBARA: Your question please?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was the key question: was Diane Schuler a closet drinker? While her husband sticks to his denial of any such thing, law enforcement is sticking to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAJOR WILLIAM T. CAREY, NEW YORK STATE POLICE: Diane Schuler had a blood alcohol content of 0.19 percent. Diane Schuler had approximately six grams of alcohol in her stomach. Diane Schuler had a high level of THC, tetra hydro -- tetra hydro cannabinol, in her blood. THC is the active ingredient contained in marijuana.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, will Diane Schuler`s husband exhume her body and conduct a second private autopsy, in the hopes of getting different results? Apparently, they haven`t decided yet.
So much to talk about. Straight out to my outstanding expert panel: Michael Cardoza, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor; Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, professor at New England School of Law, and author of "And Justice for Some"; and Darren Kavinoky, criminal defense attorney, a.k.a. the Voice of Reason; Gail Saltz, clinical psychiatrist; and Vinny Parco, private investigator.
But first, Konstanty Siemaszko, reporter with "The New York Daily News."
Konstanty, what a horror story. What is the very latest?
KONSTANTY SIEMASZKO, REPORTER, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": The very latest is that the family of the three men that were killed in the SUV that Schuler`s van collided with, basically came out and told us today that they don`t buy Daniel Schuler`s tale that his wife wasn`t an alcoholic or a pot smoker. They just don`t buy it, and they`re saying shame on the family if they did -- if they knew, and shame on the family if they ignored what clearly she had a problem with.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And they`re apparently suing? Somebody involved in that...
SIEMASZKO: Yes, they are talking about suing. If they can`t -- is they can`t get any criminal -- because Schuler`s is dead, there`s nobody to charge with a crime. So they are talking about suing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now Wendy Murphy, as I look at this, the thing that occurs to me is how is it possible for them to say that it`s just wrong? They haven`t done a second autopsy. It would require some kind of massive conspiracy on the part of the coroner and the cops to concoct a toxicology result of this magnitude that is simply not true or they would have to have gotten the wrong body and done an autopsy on the wrong body.
WENDY MURPHY, AUTHOR, "AND JUSTICE FOR SOME": Jane, it is absolutely a comedy to watch people say, "I know there`s booze all over the place and in her stomach and in her blood and in the car. But that`s not the explanation. It`s" -- what did they say, you know, her tooth ache, her diabetes she had during some pregnancy. Are you kidding me? The absurdity is ridiculous.
Here`s where I would -- here`s where I`m going to toss them a little bone. You can understand the husband saying, "I don`t want to believe it. I can`t believe it. I`ll never believe it." An awful lot of people say that when they hear a horrible thing about somebody they love. They`ll never believe it no matter what. You can put the, you know, videotape in front of their face. They`ll never believe it, because it comes from a deep sense of love and a desire to believe only good things.
But the lawyer? I know Dominic. But I almost fell off my chair laughing, watching his explanations.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But it`s sad. It`s very sad.
DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hang on Jane, when we`re talking about toxicology reports, there is an aspect of human error. And I have seen cases, my office has handled cases where we`ve dealt with blood samples, for example, that come back with a certain alcohol level or certain drugs. And then when we have that sample split and retested, it comes back as a different blood type.
We`ve even had DNA testing done, and it`s come back as different DNA. So there is an element of human error that can happen here, and you`ve got to keep an open mind to that, too.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: On this level -- OK, Michael Cardoza.
KAVINOKY: People can strew up.
MICHAEL CARDOZA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`ve got to tell you, I don`t often agree with Wendy. But in this case, I absolutely do. You`ve got to be kidding me. They`ve got marijuana in her system. They`ve got a 0.19 alcohol level. You don`t get to that alcohol level unless you`re a drinker.
The truth in this case will come out from the investigators talking to her friends. If there are people that she drank with in bars, and can testify, she used to come down to the neighborhood bar quite often, and sit there and drink with us. Therein is the truth. I agree with Wendy...
KAVINOKY: No. Wait a second. No, no, no.
CARDOZA: Oh please.
KAVINOKY: If people -- if people testify that she would come down and drink at the bar, that doesn`t necessarily have anything to do with it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Let me bring in Gail Saltz, because I think we need a psychiatrist on this one. There`s two factors here that we haven`t talked about. Denial, OK, which is very powerful, and also the possibility, and I say this as a recovering alcoholic myself, that she was such a closet drinker that she hid it even from her own husband who worked the night shift, and that does happen all the time.
GAIL SALTZ, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: Jane, actually, it`s such an important point, because women particularly tend to drink alone. And they tend to hide it from others, and they tend to get help much later in the process, often when something tragic has already happened. This made it that they had to get help.
So it absolutely could be that she hid it, that she drank during the day, that maybe the kids saw it and didn`t understand, but the husband might not have known. And when you are awash in grief, when you have lost your wife and your child, that is going to be the last time that your brain will allow you to process that you might not have known that your wife, in fact, had a major addition. That, you know, you might need to be in denial to not feel like, frankly, throwing yourself off a bridge.
CARDOZA: Right. How much guilt must he be feeling about this? I assume that`s what you`re talking about. They`re right under his nose. She`s smoking dope.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right.
CARDOZA: And she`s drinking. That`s got to bring a lot of grief on him.
(CROSSTALK)
SALTZ: Not only that -- not only that, but to be so angry at yourself that it might have been their fault that you lost your child and other people died. Would make you feel so guilty and material.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There`s another angle here. According to one published report, the quote unquote, alleged bar buddy said that she was unhappy in her marriage.
SALTZ: Well, you know, sometimes women drink that are unhappy, but they might not have, unfortunately, told their spouse how unhappy they were. Or they might have, and their spouse might not have processed that.
Or he lost the fact that this was the last time -- last moment that he`s going to be able to say to the public, or wants to say to the public, "Yes, there was a problem in my marriage."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Vinny Parco, getting back to the original point, how could this be that wrong? You know, maybe you could say, oh, a contact high with the marijuana. She drove past or walked past people smoking pot, and it went into her system. But you can`t drink that much without knowing that you`re drinking.
VINNY PARCO, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: When I was a medical investigator for the state of New York, I worked with the Westchester County medical examiner in many cases. And they had a history of having very competent people there.
And there`s no reason for the medical examiner to make this sort of error unless they did an autopsy on the wrong body.
Also, you know, I do a lot of marital cases. Sometimes the wife will tell her buddy the truth when they`ve been drinking, and tell them, you know, "I`m not happy with my husband." And the husband doesn`t know about it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right. OK, more on this stunning twist in this horrific case in moments.
Then eerie new video shows the Pittsburgh gym shooter in a dating class. We`ll analyze what it says about his obsession with women.
But first, Diane Schuler died in a crash which killed seven others, but her husband is taking on cop`s claims that she was high and drunk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULER: I go to bed every night knowing my heart is clear. She did not drink. She is not an alcoholic. Listen to all of that. She is not an alcoholic, and my heart is resting every night when I go to bed. Something medically had to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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BARBARA: I think she had a stroke or something. And I think that from the stroke came all the other issues of what happened.
This man -- I`m just asking that when you speak -- I`m going to wait until you get done. OK? When you`re done I`ll talk. I don`t have enough pressure today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh boy, the attorney for Diane Schuler`s husband clearly on the defensive, hoping to convince the media and the public that a medical condition explained her deadly behavior.
This is what the toxicologist said about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETSY SPRATT, CHIEF TOXICOLOGIST, WESTCHESTER, NEW YORK: She would have had difficulty with perception, with her judgment, with her memory. Around that level of alcohol, you also start to get what`s called tunnel vision, where your perception is changed so you can`t see peripherally all the time, depending on her tolerance that she has to alcohol.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This case making headlines in New York City day after day. Here`s the "Daily News": "He Won`t Believe It," referring to the husband.
Konstanty, you`re the "Daily News" reporter. What do we know, if anything, about his woman`s alleged medical conditions? Did she have any?
SIEMASZKO: Well, from what we`ve been told by the -- by the medical examiner, there was no underlying medical conditions of any kind. I mean, she was as healthy as a horse.
And I have to tell you, a woman that can drink ten drinks and still drive, I mean, it`s a wonder she could stand, let alone drive.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re right. Gail Saltz, people are wondering if this is true, which the coroner says it`s true. She had the equivalent of at least 10 drinks in her system plus pot. How is it possible for a mother to get into a vehicle with all these kids?
Well, that`s what alcoholism is. And I`m not saying for sure she`s an alcoholic, but alcoholism causes incomprehensible behavior.
SALTZ: Jane, unfortunately, the fact is that the number of women being arrested for DUI`s and the number of women getting in the car drunk with their children is on the rise and has been on the rise.
You know, it impairs your judgment. You think, "I`m OK. I can do this." You think, "I can`t let anyone know I have this problem." You`re in denial about the problem yourself. "I have to hide it. I put the kids in the car and I got to go."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And also, Wendy Murphy, if she was a closet drinker, and the reports were that the people who said good-bye to her at the campground said she was totally sober, where would she secretly be able to drink, if not somewhere along that highway?
MURPHY: Well, because they only drove, what, 90 miles, and it was a three-, four-hour gap, it`s very likely they did stop. And I`m sure cops are investigating that. Plus, the bottle was in her car. Remember the broken bottle, very big bottle, I might add, of vodka.
You know, the fact that she`s not the type, I keep hearing that. She`s not the type; she`s not the type. I live in a community with types just like that. And believe me, they might look real good at the PTA meeting, but they`re sucking it down at night. And they`re also doing it very secretly.
I just want to say this. On behalf of the toxicology argument the defense has been suggesting, there actually is research -- and I don`t think it`s going to explain everything away -- but there is research that after a body is incinerated to some extent, when it`s heated to a high degree, which come on, there was burning at the scene...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
MURPHY: ... you can get an extremely high artificial reading of blood alcohol. I`m not -- I`m not tossing that out there frivolously.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow.
MURPHY: I`m just saying, I`ve been involved in these sorts of cases, handles this kinds of issues before.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Major jump there.
MURPHY: That it could be very high artificially. I don`t think it means she wasn`t drinking; after all, it was in her belly, too. Yes, but there could be some artificiality to that number.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
SIEMASZKO: Allow me to stand in defense of the Westchester County officials on this one. Because let me tell you, their tests compensate for that. They test for that. And if that body was being fried in that van, they test for that.
CARDOZA: Jane?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, go ahead Michael.
CARDOZA: Could this have been -- has anybody explored whether this was suicide by car? Whether this woman was so depressed because of the alcohol and because of the marijuana that she may have done this on purpose, just started drinking down that road, looking for somebody to hit?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Interesting theory or question. Let me bring in this factor. A broken vodka bottle, as Wendy Murphy, was found at the horrific scene. Here`s Tom Ruskin, who`s a friend of this show, ISSUES, as well as a private investigator working for Diane`s husband right now. He wan on "Good Morning America," explaining their version of why that vodka bottle was there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The big question here is the vodka bottle.
TOM RUSKIN, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Let`s assume it was in the car. They were known to transport -- she was such a person who didn`t drink, they would bring the bottle back and forth in case the husband wanted to have a drink at home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Darren Kavinoky?
KAVINOKY: Well, it`s not illegal for people over the age of 21 to have a bottle of vodka. And if you`re transporting it in the car, there`s nothing wrong with that. I`m just a little flabbergasted, and I`m marking this date on my calendar, as the day that Wendy makes an argument that`s helpful to the defense. I love that.
MURPHY: Don`t get used to it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael Cardoza, we only have a couple of second. Why did they hold this news conference? To me, it seems like a bad idea.
CARDOZA: I`ve got to tell you, No. 1, Mr. Barbara, who I`ve never met, must be an outstanding attorney. To get in front of people and to put out what he`s putting out takes great acting ability.
If I were defending in this case, I would pull the family back. I would try to get the spotlight off us, and that would be the end of it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, fantastic panel for your feisty debate and fabulous insights.
People across America are grappling with alcoholism and addiction, and I`m one of them. In my new book, "I Want", I reveal details of my own personal battle with alcoholism and how I finally got sober more than 14 years ago. It`s a recovery memoir due out this fall.
You can preorder your copy right now. Click on CNN.com/Jane and look for the preorder section. This book is about how my entire life changed after I got sober. My relationships, new addictions that popped up with things like sugar. I`m going to tell you all about it. And there`s quite a few shockers in there, as well.
This book could help you with your issues or if you are dealing with someone who is suffering from alcoholism or drug addiction.
Imitation viral videos are all the rage right now. First we had the wedding dance followed by the divorce dance. These parody videos are popping up everywhere. Why are they so popular?
And then Jon Gosselin fires back, blaming Kate for the divorce. We`ll tell you about that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In the "Spotlight" tonight, something fun, the latest YouTube culture craze: viral videos that morph into hilarious parodies, which are then parodied. On and on it goes.
The latest example, the Minnesota couple`s wedding video. You know this one. Kevin Hines and Jill Petersen danced down the aisle. It is a pop culture history.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: In less than a month, the dance had more than 17 million views on YouTube, prompting a parody divorce court dance by Indigo Productions.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: That video had more than one million views. So is YouTube imitation the newest form of flattery? Here to talk about it, Ant, pop culture expert and comedian, regularly featured on "The Tonight Show".
Ant, why are these kooky videos spawning so many parodies? This is the latest pop culture craze.
ANT, COMEDIAN: Well, I got to say, I mean, first of all, jumping on the band wagon is a good -- if the video had 17 million hits and you can release a parody and get some of those eyeballs, why not do it, right?
But 17 million of that video I know for a fact are men e-mailing all their friends, going, "Why couldn`t my wedding have been that fun?"
And you should have seen the release of their video for the announcement of their first child. YouTube wouldn`t take that one.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I can imagine. I love this guy. He`s one of my favorites. One of the first viral videos was the infamous "Star Wars" kid. Remember that?
ANT: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It spawned dozens of spoofs. The most popular got more than seven million hits. Watch.
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(SOUNDS OF LASER GUNFIRE)
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: And who could forget Chris Crocker telling everybody, "Leave Britney alone," spawning Seth Green`s hilarious takedown on E!`s "The Soup."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CROCKER, BRITNEY SPEARS FAN: Leave her alone. You`re lucky she even performed for you bastards. Leave Britney alone.
SETH GREEN, ACTOR: Leave Chris Cocker alone. Leave him alone. He is jut a human.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANT: I love it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I could watch it all day and night. Ant, let me ask you. You`re a comedian. Who are you parodying these days?
ANT: You know Jane, when we come back, "Kate and Bill plus Eight." Is it hate or is it fate? Let`s debate with my fabulous panel, coming up? And I`ve got a book. I`m going to sell you a book, sell you a book.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think you should have a book. I have a feeling you were parodying me.
ANT: I have a feeling.
Jane at Halloween you`re going to see 35 Jane Velez-Mitchells just out in Greenwich Village. I`m sure of it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I just want to be able to do a cartwheel like one of these guys. I mean, this video makes me want to dance. Every time I see it, I just want to get up and hit the dance floor. I mean, this has got to be one of the best wedding parties ever. Can you imagine the hangovers?
ANT: It makes you feel so good. It makes you want to run out and get married. And it makes you now want to start to be creative with your own wedding, which is another reason why I think it`s become so popular. And the planning that went into that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want weddings all over America to be even stranger than this one.
Ant, thank you.
ANT: Jane Velez-Mitchell, marry me!
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Disturbing new details. A very serious crime. Coming up we`ve got to switch gears. We`ll tell you about it in a second.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Inside the mind of a deranged killer: disturbing new details about the woman-hating gunman who killed three women inside a fitness center. Now we`re finding out this monster had recently attended dating seminars on how to meet women.
Plus Jon Gosselin fights back: "In Touch Weekly" reports the dad from "Jon & Kate plus 8" says he is tired of being blamed for the couple`s divorce. He`s denying being a womanizer. He professed his love for a new girlfriend and ripped into Kate claiming she is exploiting the kids to get more time on TV.
Breaking developments tonight in the Pittsburgh gym massacre and new revelations that the 48-year-old man who shot up the aerobics class before turning the gun on himself was so fixated on getting a woman, he even attended dating seminars.
Believe it or not, this -- what you are about to see is video of crazed killer, George Sodini, in the white shirt at a dating seminar more than a year before he massacred women in an aerobics class Killing three and injuring nine.
One woman who helped in the seminar described Sodini as very studious, a quiet man who took a lot of notes. At a dating seminar? She added that Sodini never seemed to loosen up and was still nervous around women even by the end of the seminar.
Sodini also posted videos of himself apparently as a homework assignment of some sort. Listen to this.
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GEORGE SODINI, PITTSBURG SHOOTER: It is easy for me to hide from my emotions for one more day. Take a long drive in the car, listen to some music, day dream or just do some mundane task around the house that really doesn`t need to be done that is not too important.
And there you go, one more day and one more day turns into one more year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s all especially creepy in light of his horrific murder spree months later.
Sodini`s obsession with women seemed to dominate his life. He even wrote about women in a note left in the duffel bag he stuffed with guns and took to the gym.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUPT. CHARLES MOFFATT, ALLEGHENY COUNTY POLICE: He basically says that -- he complains about he has never spent a week end with a girl. He`s never vacationed with a girl, he never lived with women, he`s maybe had sex a few times in his life and he goes on like this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why so much hate toward women? Did he justify killing the opposite sex simply because he couldn`t get a girlfriend?
Plus a stunning twist that could leave you speechless: it turns house Sodini used the same Internet gun store as the Virginia Tech shooter who killed 32 people.
A lot to get to tonight. Straight out to my amazing, expert panel: Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor and author of "And Justice for Some;" Darren Kavinoky, criminal defense attorney; Brenda Wade, clinical psychologist; and Pat Brown criminal profiler and CEO of Pat Brown Criminal Profiling Agency.
Brenda Wade, you are the psychologist, got to start with you on this one. More and more video of this sicko is popping up. We see him now at a dating seminar. The woman who worked with him said he was incapable of improving his social behavior and his interaction.
Is that an indication of mental illness?
BRENDA WADE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. This is a guy who clearly, clearly had profound issues. And there`s one line in that video, Jane that tells the whole story, when he said "One more day to hide from my emotions. We go from one more day," he says, " one more year".
There`s the profound sense of hopelessness, helplessness. This man was isolated and any time you find isolation like that you find depression.
But he`s not just depressed. He is also I would say, very schizoid, a man who was thinking in a way that was absolutely...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What is schizoid?
WADE: Schizoid means his reality is not our reality. He`s standing over here on planet Mars and we`re on Earth. It`s a very split reality
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But you know what? That`s so weird -- Pat Brown, you`re the criminal profiler that when he is speaking on YouTube, what scared me is that he wasn`t scary. In other words I look at him and say, well he could just be somebody talking about his day at the office or vacation. He doesn`t seem threatening to me and that scares me.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, that is because when we meet him, we`re not going to notice right off that something is wrong with this guy.
Let me talk about this other reality. He is in touch with reality but it is his own reality. This is what happens, when psychopaths are growing up, they don`t have any empathy for other people. So they don`t care what they really think; a psychopath only cares about what he thinks.
So he cannot put himself in the other person`s shoes or see themselves the way the other person sees them. They develop very inappropriate behavior because they really quite frankly don`t care what other people think of them. They just want to use those other people.
They get angry when they don`t respond right because they can`t use them, but they really don`t care that, "Oh my gosh I`m upsetting that person or making them feel bad." They don`t care about the other people.
WADE: I agree with what Pat is saying. But there`s one more piece here that I want to add. Pat, I agree with everything you`re saying. The other piece though is that this guy developed a fixation with women and he projected rage on to women because he couldn`t get close to women which eventually led to the killing.
BROWN: No, all the serial killers in the world and mass murderers all seem to say exact the same thing. They can`t actually relate to anybody but they like to put all the rage on to women because they don`t understand why can`t women who should be somebody I can crush under my feet, who should have all come running to me because I`m so gorgeous.
They get mad at them but it really hasn`t anything to do with that. They are really angry at women; they`re angry at everybody. That is their target.
WENDY MURPHY, AUTHOR, "AND JUSTICE FOR SOME": He did say, in his writings and his journal, he did say girls just don`t like me and I don`t get it. Girls, you got it right.
The thing that bothers me the most about this is the extent to which he`s so clear about his rage toward women. I don`t care where it came from -- I`m not sure that the guy has mental illness -- when you have that much rage towards women and you do this much harm to women on purpose because you hate them, where`s the conversation about this as a hate crime; a civil rights violation. Why are we not talking about this as a targets form of violence?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. This is a hate crime against women. Right on Wendy Murphy.
DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: As the person with the Y chromosome over here, let me just jump in if I may. Wendy, you should care about this guy`s mental illness. In hindsight, yes, he does look especially creepy, but that kind of hopelessness that comes across so clearly in the video. If there were people in this guy`s life that knew about this kind of behavior earlier, this kind of thinking earlier, that`s something that should be dealt with.
MURPHY: Don`t make a case....
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You can`t help anybody like this.
(CROSS TALK)
MURPHY: A lot of people have illness and they don`t hurt others and that is not an excuse.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to get to another angle on this. I really got to move on because this is a shocker.
A new report that the Pittsburgh shooter used the same Wisconsin-based Internet gun store as the Virginia Tech shooter. In April 2007, a student at Virginia Tech killed 32 people before killing himself. He bought a handgun from the online store two months before the massacre.
Another student at Northern Illinois University used the very same Internet store as well. That person killed five people at a college in 2008.
The store`s owner has expressed his condolences and said, "This underscores the need to protect yourself and that you`re the only one responsible for your own protection. The police can`t really you."
But that is not what a parent of a murdered Virginia Tech student said. She is horrified, Wendy Murphy, at how easy it is to get guns online.
MURPHY: Yes. Could I please see one responsible politician stand up and say this is one too many dead people?
BROWN: Hear, hear, Wendy. Good for you.
MURPHY: Let`s do something about how easy it is to get these guns? Where are they? I`m going to vote for that person and so far the silence is deafening.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Darren...
Let me just say this. He has no mental illness. He has no criminal history to our knowledge. So he is entitled -- he was entitled...
KAVINOKY: To get that gun and to extend that argument as well, it is like the owner of the liquor store that sold that bottle of vodka to the mother that allegedly drove drunk and killed all those people.
MURPHY: No, he did have mental illness. We`ve all said he had bad mental illness.
WADE: He`s very ill, yes.
MURPHY: He got guns like this. That is how fast you can get it. We can slow it down a little and do a little check on that. Go on upstairs with some of these people. It wouldn`t kill us...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The point is he had no history of psychiatric treatment, Wendy, and he had no criminal history to our knowledge.
WADE: Just because somebody isn`t treated psychiatrically doesn`t you`re not mentally ill.
(CROSS TALK)
BROWN: You can`t prove that. You can`t walk into a gun store and have the guy behind the counter try to prove you are a psychopath. It`s not going to happen.
The simple fact is, if you have a legal right to have a gun, and you haven`t been in a psychiatric institute, and you haven`t got a felony record you can get a gun.
V-M: But he didn`t walk into a store Pat. This is online some of this stuff.
MURPHY: And can I just say something -- in the local communities, it is usually police chiefs who get to make decisions. They get to use their discretion, their knowledge of the people, their patterns in the past. They get to use their judgment if they think somebody is a whack job and they apply for a permit, they can say no.
So the fact that we have this online snap-your-fingers access to guns while in our smaller communities we are making it actually a meaningful discretionary decision on the part of law enforcement, what is that about?
KAVINOKY: First of all, is whack job a clinical term? I just want to clarify that.
MURPHY: Yes, it is.
KAVINOKY: And I wonder what community you`re living in. Here in Los Angeles, there are gun stores that sell guns and the police chief doesn`t get to screen every applicant.
(CROSS TALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think what we are talking about, Darren, is the fact that there are a lot of problems in this society and one of the commonalities is the Internet; whether it`s abusive prescription drugs -- people getting them over the Internet without seeing a doctor.
And now we have three mass killers going to the same Internet gun store to get some of their weaponry and ammo on the Internet.
It is the wild, wild west.
KAVINOKY: And historically, we have seen this over and over in lots of different areas. The law struggles to play catch-up to advances in society, advances in technology and it`s unfortunate...
WADE: One of the advances that we need that we don`t have is an advance in the area mental health where people who clearly are living outside normal society. Somebody says that person`s in trouble before they take these kinds of actions.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The trouble is this guy held a steady job, a serious job in the finance department of a law firm.
WADE: Doesn`t mean he was not outside.
(CROSS TALK)
BROWN: He`s responsible for himself not the rest of society.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you fabulous guests. We`re going to debate that one again.
It has been more than a month since Michael Jackson`s death; still plenty of rumors circulating about what killed him. Is it finally time to lay his body to rest.
Also Jon Gosselin goes on the attack, telling "In Touch," he is sick of being flamed for the couple`s divorce. Wait until you hear what else he had to say about Kate and his girlfriend.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Since Jon and Kate Gosselin`s on-air split, rumors have been flying from secret romances to new clothing lines. Are they fed up? We`re going to talk about it.
But first, "Top of the Block" tonight: a possible break in the tragic death of a Florida couple known for adopting special-needs children. Authorities say they`ve arrested a man who has a father-son relationship with Leonard Patrick Gonzalez, Sr., one of the seven men charged with killing Byrd and Melanie Billings.
This is a picture of the couple from their funeral program.
Police say Henry "Cab" Tice, a used-car dealer was arrested on suspicion of grand theft. Cops are also investigating a possible link between Tice and the Mexican mafia. Now investigators believe there were two motives in the killing, robbery and a contracted hit.
Did the Mexican mafia kill Billings? Is Tice the link cops are looking to solve this case? Time will tell. But for today Tice is being held on $5,000 bail and has not been charged with murder.
Switching gears now to Michael Jackson: is the "King of Pop" finally being laid to rest? According to the "New York Post" the L.A. County coroner has returned all of Jackson`s remains to his family including his brain which was removed last month after his family surrendered his body for additional testing.
The "Post" also reporting Jackson will be buried in an unmarked grave; the burial is expected to be informal and only one or two Jackson family members will be there as witnesses.
That is tonight`s "Top of the Block."
Turning now to the on screen and off screen drama of "Jon & Kate Plus 8". Jon Gosselin fighting back saying he is tired and I mean tired of being blamed for the couple`s divorce. The embattled reality star`s spilled it all to "In Touch Weekly." Sick of all the rumors he claims quote, "I`m not a womanizer" because he`s in love but with which of the young women he`s been seen on the town with.
Plus, Jon claims Kate wouldn`t work on the marriage because quote, "I think she initiated the split because she wanted a career."
But Jon is not the only one telling all. One of his alleged gal-pals Kate Major spoke to "E! News" about their supposed relationship.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATE MAJOR, FORMER STAR MAGAZINE REPORTER: He expressed to me how difficult it`s been for him with the media constantly surrounding him. And after spending a week with him straight, I pretty much can see how difficult it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They spent a whole week together, but is she the one Jon is in love with? We`ll tell you in just moments. In the meantime, "Jon & Kate plus 8" new season premiers this Monday ratings were low -- they dropped 61 percent -- but tensions were high.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON GOSSELIN, "JON & KATE PLUS 8": Under the counter refrigerator.
KATE GOSSELIN, "JON & KATE PLUS 8": No, Jon, oh, what planet do you live on?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, some things never change.
But as Jon and Kate start to move on and move away from each other, how are the eight kids coping?
Straight out to my expert panel: Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor and author of "And Justice for Some;" Brenda Wade, clinical psychologist; and Kim Serafin, senior editor for "In Touch Weekly."
Kim, you have the big scoop this week tell us what Jon said about this split with Kate?
KIM SERAFIN, SENIOR EDITOR, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Yes, Jon did sit down for an exclusive interview with "In Touch". Where as you pointed out he really wanted to let people know that he is not the one to blame. In fact, he says that it was Kate that came to him in October and that she is the one that gave up on the marriage.
He also wanted to say that actually this has been going on for a long time that their divorce will be finalized by September 30th. So I think what people are seeing now, is we didn`t know what was going on so soon, maybe a lot of people thought the problems started in May.
But he said that he actually moved out in January. It has been going on for a long time and wanted to let people know that he is a good father. He`s with the kids just as much as Kate and that he really loves Hailey. So he really sets the record straight...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hailey Glassman, he`s in love with Hailey Glassman?
SERAFIN: That is what he said. He says that he was not dating Kate Major and that he`s in love with Hailey; they have a great relationship. He talked a lot about the relationship to "In Touch" about how he thinks she is very much like him. She loves sports, she loves snow boarding, he says. They are very kindred spirits. So...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right now, on the premier episode, of "Jon & Kate plus 8" Jon and Kate are separated but they`re still remodeling their kitchen, what`s that about?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. GOSSELIN: It`s kind of strange that we are remodeling our kitchen in the middle of our separation and stuff like that, but, it`s something that we already planned beforehand and the house is the kids`. So it`s really for them too as well.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, Dr. Wade, psychologist -- emphasis on psychologist...
BRENDA WADE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Ok.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is a very different situation and odd one. The eight kids are staying in the house while Jon and Kate live elsewhere and they rotate taking turns staying with the kids. Is that healthy psychologically for them?
WADE: There are so many issues with this family. I think for the kids to have a central place to live can actually make things a little bit easier.
But I`m more concerned that Jon is taking pot shots at Kate. We know Kate is taking pot shots at Jon and what that does is it puts the kids in the crossfire.
Now two-thirds fewer divorces happen for people who get premarital counseling. We know people who get counseling when there`s trouble, we have 50 percent fewer divorces. Yet, according to this interview, Kate refused to go to counseling.
Now Jane, I think there is a reason. I think that Jon, like so many men, is suffering from what we call "walk away wife syndrome." She was trying to say she was unhappy; she was giving him every indication. He didn`t pick up on it. She got fed-up and said I`m done. Then he springs into action and it`s too late. She`s already gone.
I think he`s just saying it that he`s....
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Murphy, who`s talking for the kids?
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Who`s what?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Who`s speaking for the kids? Who`s looking out for their interest?
MURPHY: That`s a very good question, because I think if you`re giving me the choice between mom and dad, I`d say neither. They both like to exploit their children. And to blame the media while they`re running to the bank and cashing the check, cry me a river.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh yes.
Stay right there, everyone. We`re going to have more on Jon and Kate dramarama, some new developments we`ll tell you about right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
K. GOSSELIN: That what has transpired has transpired and it is my new attitude that I am going to do things I have never done before. I have to.
I just put a screen in the window for the first time in my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. That was Kate Gosselin talking about life without her soon to be ex-Jon on their show "Jon & Kate plus 8." The premiere episode aired this week but Jon was mostly absent from them and guess what, ratings dropped 61 percent.
That is huge, Kim Serafin. Does this breakup mean basically nobody really wants to watch a bickering couple and with this -- that`s not even really reality because we`re not seeing all the girlfriends?
SERAFIN: Well, actually, the ratings now are back to where they were before kind of all of the drama started. They shot up when everything happened, when they were -- everything was being talked about. Were they splitting, were they not splitting, when they were teasing this big episode where there`s going to be a big announcement.
So that`s when the ratings are really high, when they were kind of fighting. Now, it seems like they`re going to focus on the single parenting, we`re going to see more of just Kate with the kids and then we`ll see Jon with the kids.
Even that little clip that you showed last segment about Kate kind of cutting him down here, "What planet are you on, Jon?" She then after it`s explained to her what these little refrigerators are for? She turns and says, "Oh, ok, I guess you`re not on another planet Jon, I`m sorry."
So maybe people don`t like them being nice to each other is the indication that we`re getting from these ratings, four million compared to the 10 million they were getting after those final episodes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Kate -- let`s bring in Kate Major. She`s the former "Star" magazine reporter who has been seen out on the town with Jon. She spoke to "E! News" this week about their relationship; listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAJOR: Jon and I happened very quickly. I even said to him, I feel like I`ve known you my whole life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the low point?
MAJOR: Having to resign from my job. I just felt it was obviously a conflict of interest, to say the least.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, it sounds like they`re still together, but Jon told "In Touch Weekly" that he loves Hailey Glassman, the 22-year-old daughter of Kate`s -- he`s soon-to-be ex-wife`s plastic surgeon.
He said, quote, "She is beautiful and glowing and I love her to death." So, Brenda Wade, if you take all of that...
WADE: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... and you add to the fact that these kids are stuck in a reality show that`s not reflecting all that reality, are these children just -- happy to be too young to know about all of this or are they -- or are they suffering and confused?
WADE: No, they`re not. They`re not too young to know, Jane. They`re not too young to know, children start absorbing at a very young age. Little children are not miniature adults, they`re like sponges. Their brains can`t filter all this, so they just take it in without understanding.
And Jon and Kate aren`t the only people who need to learn how to stabilize their relationships. Everybody needs that. That`s why I created the love and money summit in Savannah and I am giving one of your viewers a scholarship in your name Jane, so they can go and learn about it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, ok, what are they learning exactly?
WADE: They`re going to learn how to handle love and money, because when these...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`d like to learn -- can I take the seminar?
WADE: Well, you can come, you can definitely come to Savannah.
What I really want is that these kids need a lot of support.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They do.
WADE: ...and these parents need to learn how to show up for them and stop harping at each other. Its makes it worse.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Murphy you have the last 10 seconds.
MURPHY: Well, I`ll tell you, the harping may well jack-up the ratings, because I think we do like seeing people fight with each other. I just want somebody who loves those children and doesn`t care about money to be in that home to mind the parents.
SERAFIN: Great, great remarks.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely well said. We all applaud that one. Thank you, fabulous panel.
Remember, click on CNN.com/Jane preorder your copy of my new book about addiction "I Want."
You`re watching ISSUES.
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