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Campbell Brown
Town Hall Shouting Matches; Health Care Fact Check: What You Need to Know; What do the Critics Want on Health Care?; Secretary of State Hillary Clinton Reacts to a Question Lost in Translation; Reality TV in Afghanistan
Aired August 11, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, here are the questions we want answered.
Are we getting anywhere with the health care debate?
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Where we do disagree, let's disagree over things that are real, not these wild misrepresentations that bear no resemblance to anything that's actually been proposed.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BROWN: Civil for the president, but out of control at other town halls.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Wait a minute. You want to leave? Leave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am going to speak my mind before I leave, because your people told me I could. I called your office and I was told I could have the mike to speak. And then I was lied to.
SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL (D), MISSOURI: Do you want to be fair to your fellow patriots that are here today and give them an opportunity? That would be terrific.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BROWN: With all the shouting, important questions are going unanswered. Tonight, once again, we are separating fact from fiction.
Plus, why are we harping on Hillary Clinton? The secretary of state is in Africa on an important diplomatic mission, so why is this all anybody's talking about?
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Wait, you want me to tell you what my husband thinks? My husband is not the secretary of state. I am.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is your only source for news. CNN prime time begins now. Here's Campbell Brown.
BROWN: Hi, everybody. Those are big questions tonight, but we're going to start as we always do with the "Mash-Up." It is our look at all the stories making an impact right now, the moments you may have missed today. We're watching it all so you don't have to.
And we begin with President Obama on offense today. He's pushing back at critics of his health care reform plan, holding his own town hall- style meeting in New Hampshire. But unlike some of the other town halls we have seen, the president got off easy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: He didn't back down and it didn't turn ugly. He forcefully defended his ideas, thumbing his nose at critics and pushing back at what he called rumors.
OBAMA: For all of the scare tactics out there, what is truly scary, what is truly risky is if we do nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The audience responded warmly to his new strategy of vilifying insurance companies and focusing on ways that people who already have insurance will benefit.
OBAMA: I don't think government bureaucrats should be meddling, but I also don't think insurance company bureaucrats should be meddling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Outside, the crowds were raucous, some angry. Inside, the crowd was friendly with chants of yes, we can.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He used humor to push back on some of the wilder accusations.
OBAMA: the rumor that's been circulating a lot lately is this idea that somehow the House of Representatives voted for death panels that will basically pull the plug on grandma. I am not in favor of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, some civil give and take there in New Hampshire, but a rough ride elsewhere for Senators Claire McCaskill and Arlen Specter. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCASKILL: I don't understand this rudeness. What is this? I don't get it. I honestly don't get it. Do you all think that you're persuading people when you shout out like that?
SPECTER: You want to be let out of here? You're welcome to go.
Now, wait a minute. Now, wait a minute. Now, wait a minute.
MCCASKILL: Beg your pardon?
You don't trust me? OK. You know, I don't know what else I can do. I don't know what else I can do. If you want me to go home...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One day, God is going to stand before you, and he is going to judge you and the rest of your damn cronies up on the Hill.
SPECTER: OK. We have just had we have just had a demonstration of democracy. OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So that's what it was, a little civics 101 there in Pennsylvania. A lot of lawmakers saying that they are trying to educate their constituents, given all the misinformation out there. Maybe they should try an old favorite.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): I'm just a bill. Yes, I'm only a bill. And I'm sitting here on Capitol Hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And there really is no finished bill at this point?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the gentlemen there asked me, how are you going to vote on the bill? I said, there isn't a bill yet.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There are versions of bill. There's are more final and less final and different stations, but there is no final health care bill completed yet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): Well, now I'm stuck in committee and I will sit here and wait while a few key congressmen discuss and debate.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Three House committees have passed separate versions of the legislation. Now they have to be merged into one bill the full House can vote on. If bills pass the House and Senate, negotiators iron out differences. Then both houses vote again. Now, if the final bill passes, it goes to President Obama.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not easy to a law, is it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
(singing): But how I hope and pray I will, but today I am still just a bill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Doesn't that bring back memories? More from the town halls, including a fact check, coming up.
Now, while the focus here at home has been on health care, overseas in Iraq today, some of the worst violence in months. Today, several more bombings in Baghdad. Yesterday, blasts around the country killed more than 50 people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today a Shiite neighborhood in Baghdad was hit with three separate bombings, killing at least three people. The tightened security follows several attacks over the past four days that have killed more than 100 people. It has been the deadliest period since American troops withdrew from major cities to their bases in the outlying areas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And it has been just over a month since those troops pulled back from many of the Iraqi cities.
An extraordinary woman, Eunice Kennedy Shriver, died today. She was a Kennedy, yes, sister to the president and senators. But she will be remembered for her own contribution as the founder of the Special Olympics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EUNICE KENNEDY SHRIVER, SPECIAL OLYMPICS FOUNDER: In ancient Rome, the gladiators went into the arena with these words on their lips. Let me win, but if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt.
BLITZER: She founded the Special Olympics in 1968. Exuberant, restless, deeply religious, Eunice Shriver changed the way the world views the developmentally disabled.
As "U.S. News & World Report" said of her -- quote -- "When the full judgment of the Kennedy legacy is made, the changes wrought by Eunice Kennedy Shriver may well be seen as the most consequential."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Today more than three million people participate in Special Olympics programs. Eunice Kennedy Shriver was 88 years old.
On a much lighter note tonight, the headache that is Levi Johnston. Remember him, Sarah Palin's almost son-in-law? He's now out cracking jokes about his almost mother-in-law. Levi and Kathy Griffin together on "LARRY KING LIVE" last night. It was a train wreck.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHY GRIFFIN, COMEDIAN: Levi, let's just kiss and tell, shall we?
I woke up this morning in your arms spooning and just so confused about love -- what love is. And I realized I found it in your chocolate beautiful eyes.
How are you ever going to get over me, Levi?
LEVI JOHNSTON, EX-FIANCE OF BRISTOL PALIN: I don't know. It's going to be tough.
GRIFFIN: My plan is that Sarah could make all the trouble go away if she moves you into the big house, everybody gets along, and then you actually get to help raise the kid. Why is that a problem?
JOHNSTON: I don't know. She screwed all that up. I'm not really looking forward to being around that family anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Johnston was Kathy Griffin's date to the Teen Choice Awards this week.
Now, as hard as we have tried to, we can no longer ignore what's happening among some of our cable news colleagues. In case you have not heard, they are at war.
Big swinging anchor number one thinks that big swinging anchor number two is the worst person in the world. Big swinging anchor number two is so full of disdain of big swinging anchor number one, he won't even say his name, so he just goes after his boss, the CEO of General Electric.
This war has become so brutal and so ugly that plummeting stock prices and widespread company layoffs be damned. The CEOs of GE and of News Corp., the men who rule both the big swinging anchors, actually had a summit to attempt to negotiate a truce. They failed.
So, now the big swinging anchors are at war once again. Don't laugh,, people. This is a very important story. "The New York Times" has been covering it breathlessly and those big swinging anchors have ratings a lot bigger than mine.
So, out of respect for the big swinging anchors at the competition, we're going to wish them all the best, with all our hope for a peaceful resolution and an end to the suffering it has caused for those poor CEOs at News Corp. and GE.
And that brings us to tonight's punchline.
Sure, it's no beach read, but maybe too much is being made of the health care proposal's physical bulk. And as for those so-called death panels, well, check out this from "The Colbert Report."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE COLBERT REPORT": Now, death panels, the phrase, does not appear in the health care bill. They're cleverly referred to as communal standards, which also doesn't appear anywhere in the health care bill. The Democrats are that sneaky -- Jim.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, HOST, "THIS WEEK WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS": The only thing in the bill is that it would allow Medicare to pay for what they say is voluntary counseling on end of life issues.
NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Communal standards historically is a very dangerous concept.
STEPHANOPOULOS: It's not in the bill.
GINGRICH: But the bill's 1,000 pages.
COLBERT: A thousand pages, that's almost as long as a "Harry Potter" novel.
(LAUGHTER)
COLBERT: No one can read that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Stephen Colbert, everybody. And that is the "Mash-Up."
The raucous debate over health care got taken down a notch today when President Obama took the stage. Is he calming the crowds or is he getting a free pass?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCASKILL: You don't trust me?
AUDIENCE: No!
(SHOUTING)
MCCASKILL: You know, I don't know what else I can do. I don't know what else I can do. If you want me to go home -- OK, let me -- I -- I...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: During this make or break month on health care reform, the traveling circus, otherwise known as congressional town halls, provoked eruptions of shouting and heckling again today, as you just saw, except in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, actually, where the president was. It wasn't a member of Congress, you see. It was the president selling this reform himself. So, take a look at sort of the kinder, I think, gentler gathering that we saw.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I take a lot of medications. I need a lot -- I have had a lot of procedures. And how will Medicare under the new proposal help people who are going to need things like this?
OBAMA: Well, first of all, another myth that we've been hearing about is this notion that somehow we're going to be cutting your Medicare benefits. We are not. The AARP would not be endorsing a bill if it was undermining Medicare. OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I'm a Republican. I don't know what I'm doing here, but I'm here.
(LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: We're -- we're happy to have you. We're happy to have you.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, you've been quoted over the years when you were a senator, and perhaps even before then, that you were essentially a supporter of a universal plan.
I'm beginning to see that you're changing that. Do you honestly believe that? Because that is my concern.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As I was walking in, I saw a lot of signs outside saying mean thing about reforming health care. How do kids know what is true and why do people want a new system that can help more of us?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: All right, well, a much friendlier tone as you saw there than some of what we saw Senators Claire McCaskill and Arlen Specter facing a little bit earlier. We are going to talk to our political panel about that now.
We want to welcome CNN political contributor and Republican Mary Matalin. She's in Washington tonight. And with here in New York, Steve Kornacki, who is columnist for "The New York Observer," and our senior political analyst Jeffrey Toobin with me as well.
Let me ask you first, Steve. The White House says they didn't vet any of these people, it was open, a free-for-all. But it was a lot different than some of what members of Congress have been having to go through.
STEVE KORNACKI, COLUMNIST, "THE NEW YORK OBSERVER": Well, sure.
And I would be a little suspicious with the little girl and saying, why do all these people hate you?
BROWN: Why is everybody so mean to you?
KORNACKI: That was a little too much for me. I will admit that.
But I would also say that there's a big difference between what we saw at the Obama one in terms of the turnout, the number of people who came. That's to be expected. It's a president. In terms of the tone, and just in terms of the -- I think, the intellectual nature of the questions that were asked.
The gentleman you showed, the Republican, he eventually got around to asking a question about the public option. It's so important to Obama and to the Democrats -- and basically saying, listen, if you have the government running an insurance option, how can private insurance really be expected to compete with that? A very fair, a very valid question. He asked it respectfully. It's an honest concern, and Obama addressed it I think intelligently.
You can make your decision who is right and who is wrong on that. I contrast that man with the people we're seeing showing up -- for instance, Arlen Specter had an event today in Pennsylvania. And these people are just -- at these events, these congressional events are just chanting like, you know, objectionists and -- and -- and mantras about socialized medicine and about death panels and all these things. There's no rational thought behind what they're saying.
So, I think what we saw today is there's a difference. There's a hardened fringe that shows up at congressional town hall meetings that's not representative of a broader population. They're going to oppose this no matter what, no matter how long this goes on for.
But I think what we saw from the fellow at the Obama event is what's more representative of the people who say they're against this right now. They have conflicting feelings about it.
BROWN: Right.
Mary, is that what's happening? There are legitimate concerns. Are they not being addressed given the show that's unfolding at these events?
MARY MATALIN, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: No, the reason this show is unveiling the way it is, is because heretofore and still throughout all these town halls, they're not answering what is really driving this anger and this frustration, which has been from the outset, what does it cost? How is it not going to raise the costs? How is it going to maintain quality and choice? And, furthermore, how are we going to pay for this?
The House scored their -- the CBO scored the House bill at $1.6 trillion, which caused the Senate not to score and to say it was impossible to score theirs. And people, they want to know, on top of the stimulus and on top of all of these bailouts and this unprecedented redistribution of wealth.
So, it's a mounting. It's based on two things, frustration at not being able to get the specific answers on health care that assure them that their own health care is going to maintain the quality that they have enjoyed, because 85 percent of them are happy with it, and, then, on top of everything else, which they don't think they have voted for, this unprecedented reordering of governance. That's what you're seeing.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Mary's right. There's been misinformation on both sides, but her points about cost and about the CBO numbers are accurate.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: Those are very legitimate. I think there's a false premise about all the excitement at these congressional town meetings.
Just because there's a lot of noise doesn't mean a lot of people are upset. I don't know about you. When I covered last year's campaign, the most enthusiastic, noisy supporters were of Ron Paul. You would think Ron Paul would be the nominee, but you know what? He just had noisy supporters.
I think the people who are screaming at these town meetings don't represent a lot of people. The questions that Mary are raising, cost, coverage, very legitimate questions, I thought Obama did a good job answering them. But that's the tone of a debate we should have, not, you know, people screaming...
KORNACKI: Can I say...
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Yes, quickly.
KORNACKI: There was a telling moment at the Arlen Specter town hall today when a guy got into his rant against it, and Specter stopped him and said, OK, you still say you support some concept of health care reform. What would you like to see us do?
The man thought about it for a minute and he said, tort reform, round up the illegal immigrants, and impose term limits on Congress. None of that's going to do anything to address health care.
BROWN: Mary, though, let me ask you, is this about more than health care? There is a legitimate debate to be had about health care, but is a lot of -- has suddenly the American public got interested in the nuances of health care reform? Or is this as much of a referendum on Obama himself?
MATALIN: It's not just on Obama. It's on Obamanomics, whatever you want to call it. It's the total package of Obama. And, as I say again, they don't discuss it in Edmund Burke type linguistics or John Locke, but it is an unprecedented reordering of the way in which we have been governed since our founding. So, they're not going to talk about it like that.
I would not so readily dismiss -- if it's not anger, there certainly is a mounting concern -- this is from the polls -- this is not a partisan tripe here -- mounting concern about not just health care, but all of this unprecedented expansion of governments -- of the government.
And there is a decreasing support specifically in every single poll across the board for this kind of health care. I will say again, there's somewhere between 15 percent and the 20 percent of the people who aren't covered, and about half of those could be covered under some current system. They choose not to be. They don't want to pay for it. They're young people or they're eligible, but they're not signed up, or they're illegal immigrants or something like that.
So, people just don't want to reorder a system with which they're largely happy because of the uninsured. That's what it is. And I would not dismiss this as a bunch of cranks showing up at town hall meetings.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: I don't think that the opposition to this is largely cranks. There are very serious people who are opposed to it.
But there are 50 million people in this country who don't have health insurance. There are health care costs that are increasing way ahead of inflation, and that's a problem. And the question is, do you want to just leave the system the way it is? Or is Obama's suggestion, which is not even a fully formed suggestion yet, is that the way to go? Those are hard -- that's a hard question.
MATALIN: That is a false premise, if I might, Jeffrey, because you're doing the same thing Obama does, which is you're creating a false narrative, that the opposition to Obama's plan is the status quo.
That's what he says. That's not true. There's all kinds of Republican/conservative/libertarian options, which include pooling of health care, which include -- the Senate option is co-ops. There's lots of -- there are lots of options that aren't the status quo, that aren't Obama's. Let's not set up a false narrative.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Guys, we have to end it there. Thank you for having a civil dialogue here.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: Can we scream a little? Can we scream a little?
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Do you need to unleash?
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: No.
As always, Mary Matalin, Jeff Toobin, and Jeff Kornacki, thank you so much. Or Steve Kornacki.
I'm sorry, Steve.
Thank you so much, guys.
We're going to go in this next segment beyond the noise a little bit, this crucial month, and we're going to fact check some of the rumors, some of the statements you have been hearing for weeks now and take a look at the reality, as close as we can get to it, of what health care reform really means.
Plus, someone tried to attack the Mona Lisa, seriously. We're going to tell you how one of the world's most famous paintings was saved when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Let's check on some of the other must-see stories of the day.
Mike Galanos from HLN's "Prime News" is at the CNN Center with tonight's "Download" for us -- Mike.
MIKE GALANOS, HEADLINE NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Campbell.
We're just getting some breaking news in, quite a twist on the swine flu. Costa Rica's president, Oscar Arias, has the swine flu. That was announced at a press conference today. So, we're waiting to see what takes place, if an interim replacement is needed. And you have got to wonder this as well. Americans headed to Costa Rica for vacation, they have got to be concerned. So, I know we're going to continue to follow that. Again, Costa Rica's president, Oscar Arias, has the swine flu, so some breaking news we're getting in.
Now some other stories -- a U.S. Army soldier's been arrested and accused of being a paid hit man for a Mexican drug cartel. Police in El Paso, Texas, say 18-year-old Private 1st Class Michael Apodaca shot and killed a mid-level cartel member who also happened to be a DEA informant. Now, the cartel allegedly ordered the hit on their own man when they suspected he was leaking info to the feds.
Divers recovered the last of the victims of Saturday's collision between a small plane and a tour helicopter near New York City. The final two bodies were inside the wreckage of the plane that was pulled from the Hudson River today. The helicopter was pulled out on Sunday. All nine people aboard both aircraft were killed.
Well, the families of three American hikers held in Iran for nearly two weeks say they entered the country by mistake. A State Department spokesman today said that the U.S. has received official confirmation that the three have been detained. Now in a statement the families say the trio accidentally strayed across the Iranian border while backpacking and they hope the misunderstanding will be resolved quickly.
Well, President Obama, the Dalai Lama and the U.N. secretary-general are among those condemning today's sentencings -- sentencing, that is -- of Aung San Suu Kyi to 18 more months of house arrest. Myanmar's opposition leader was on trial for letting an American inside her lakeside home after he swam there uninvited. The 64-year-old Nobel Peace Prize laureate has spent 14 of the last 20 years in confinement.
Well, General Motors says its Chevrolet Volt electric car will -- get this -- 230 miles per gallon. You heard me right, 230. Now, GM says the Volt will get you Boston to New York on just one gallon of gas. It goes on sale late next year.
Now, GM's CEO calls it a game-changer, because consumers will now have a third option to hybrids and gas-powered cars. One note to that one, the first 40 miles on a fresh charge all on batteries. That's before the gas even kicks in.
And here's the story you teased, Campbell. French police revealed a bizarre attack on the Mona Lisa. They say a Russian tourist pulled out a teacup, pulled it out of the purse, threw it at the 500-year-old painting last week. Da Vinci's masterpiece not damaged, thankfully. It sits behind bulletproof glass. Now, the woman was taken to a psychiatric ward for an examination, no word on her motive on this one. The quote from authorities, she was not in her senses.
Doing a little research on this, Campbell, the Mona Lisa, there's been a few attacks -- 1956, acid thrown at the Mona Lisa, a rock thrown at the Mona Lisa, and, then, back, 1911, stolen for a couple of years.
BROWN: Cuckoo.
GINGRICH: I know. Yes, back to the teacup, thank goodness for the bulletproof glass there.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: No tea in that teacup, huh?
GALANOS: Yes, thank -- yes, exactly.
BROWN: Mike Galanos for us tonight -- we will see you later, Mike. Thanks.
GALANOS: Thanks, Campbell.
BROWN: You heard all the yelling and screaming over President Obama's health care reform plan. Well, now you're going to hear the truth. We have our fact check on what is going on just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It is make or break month for health care reform, as you may have heard me say a time or two now.
So, right now we're going to fact check some of the startling charges that are out there. You may have seen an e-mail that has made the rounds among millions of people now that claims among other things your health care would be rationed under the president's plan. True or false?
Here to break it all down, Bill Adair, the editor of PolitiFact.com, who joined us last night. We're going to keep going through this bill and work you to death until we get to all this stuff. I should mention PolitiFact is nonpartisan, won a Pulitzer Prize, of course, for the work investigative work, you guys did during the last election.
So, Bill, let's go through some of the stuff. Both the left and the right have not been entirely on the up and up about a lot of this.
Let's start with number one, this charge that the plan will create a health choices commissioner and there's been a lot of confusion over exactly what this person will do. And this chain e-mail I was talking about alleges that the health choices commissioner will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice, none. What does the truth-o-meter say about that? BILL ADAIR, EDITOR, POLITIFACT.COM: Now the truth-o-meter gave that one a "pants on fire," which is what we give to claims that we find are ridiculously false. The truth here is that the health choices commissioner is just that. Somebody who will oversee the choices that people will have in the health care exchange, which is the part of the president's health plan that would provide health insurance plans for small businesses and people who don't have coverage.
So it's just ridiculously false, but this chain e-mail has circulated so widely. I'm glad you asked about it because we've gotten from many, many readers. And I think lots and lots of people have seen this.
BROWN: I know. And another claim made there, we've also heard this one repeatedly at some of these town halls that says all non-U.S. citizens, illegal or not will be provided with free health care services. Any truth to this?
ADAIR: No truth. This one also gets a "pants on fire" on our truth- o-meter on PolitiFact. The reality is there's no such provision in the bill. The chain e-mail claims to take this from the bill but the section that it quotes it's not -- it doesn't say what they claim it says. And indeed the bill actually says that if you're an undocumented alien, you will not be eligible for the credits that would allow you to get coverage under the health care exchange. So, "pants on fire" for that one too.
BROWN: All right. Another item in the chain e-mail, taking aim at the quality of care you would get under the reform plan saying that admission, your health care will be rationed. True or false?
ADAIR: This one gets a false on the truth-o-meter. We looked at the section that it refers to and the paradox is, it doesn't say in this section that health care would be rationed, what it actually sets is the minimum benefits, the things that you would be guaranteed to get under this plan. So, this one gets a false.
BROWN: OK. Let's look at some of the claims coming from the other side from the president, from Democrats, and supporters of the health care proposals on Capitol Hill. Haven't been entirely on the up and up themselves either. Listen to President Obama today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Under the reform we're proposing, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Now, on this one, I know, Bill, the president could take this a level deeper, couldn't he?
ADAIR: He could. He's really glossing over things. We gave him a "half true" on the truth-o-meter for this one. We were specifically looking at his claim that if you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan. And he's glossing over some details here.
One thing is that, of course, as we all know that employers change insurance plans. So it's always possible given that the president's plan relies on your private insurance as sort of the basis. If your employer provides you with insurance now, as long as it's a large employer, that is the basis for the current system. But even in the health care exchange, there could be changes in the marketplace where some companies stop providing coverage or your employer if it's a small business decides not to offer the same coverage. So he's kind of glossing over it. It's not a sure thing you would necessarily get to keep your health care, although that is definitely the goal of the plan.
BROWN: Right.
ADAIR: So he gets the half true for that one.
BROWN: But if -- if reform takes place, there's going to be a lot of pressure on small businesses, especially, but even big corporations to try to compete with that plan, essentially, right?
ADAIR: Exactly. And you're referring there to the public option, which would be the government-run plan that Obama sees as providing the incentive to other plans to be more efficient. And that's seen as a very positive thing, but the impact of that might be that there are changes in the marketplace. And if you're getting one particular -- if you're getting your coverage from one particular company, it may decide well, we don't want to offer that same plan next year. So, you know, half true.
BROWN: OK. Bill Adair with us tonight. And Bill will be back with a lot of the other claims we've been hearing joining us over the next few weeks or few months or however long this takes, Bill. Appreciate it. Thanks so much.
ADAIR: Thanks, Campbell.
BROWN: With all the shouting at town halls it's not always clear exactly what the critics want. So we'll talk to critics of the president's plan and someone else on the other side of the issue when we come back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Who has card number one?
If you want to stay in the hall, if you want to stay in the hall, we're not going to tolerate any demonstrations or any booing. So it's up to you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Critics of President Obama's health care reforms are making themselves heard loud and clear. Loud for sure, it's certainly not always entirely clear, though, what they are so angry about.
So as part of CNN's coverage of this make or break month for health care, I'm joined now by Corey Lewandowski, who is state director of the New Hampshire chapter of Americans for Prosperity. He organized a protest outside the president's town hall today. Also, Henrie Treadwell, director of the community voices program at the Morehouse School of Medicine in Atlanta joining us, as well. She's in favor of reform.
Welcome to both of you. Corey, let me start with you on this. You organized, as we said, this group of protesters outside of the president's town hall meeting today, but I kind of want to get beyond that if we can and focus a little more on the issues and get at the heart of what exactly you're protesting, what your primary concern is.
COREY LEWANDOWSKI, AMERICANS FOR PROSPERITY: Sure. The biggest concern in the whole health care debate right now is the lack of input from both sides, particularly as the president goes out and pushes this public option, which is really based on the Massachusetts health care system which they're currently using down there. And the problem with that is that the average individual in Massachusetts is waiting 100 days to see their primary care physician and we believe that that is just too long.
BROWN: Dr. Treadwell, you know, not everyone agrees that this needs to be done right away. Cost is certainly another question that gets raised a lot. Why do you believe it's so urgent? Give us your take.
HENRIE TREADWELL, MOREHOUSE SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: It's urgent because our safety net systems are crumbling under the debt of caring for people without insurance who are uninsured or underinsured and the working poor simply have no options for health care. And it's time that they have an opportunity to get health care just as people with insurance cards do.
Most of the people at the debates are not from the communities of the poor, or communities of color. Their voices are being drowned out. Their cases have not been presented. They too are America.
BROWN: Corey, there isn't a bill yet. The plan that will be voted on is just really in the formative stages now. Do you have any concern about the information that's floating around out there?
We just did this fact check. There's so much that's wrong about what's being charged. And it is unfairness coming from both sides, but you have to admit, at least, that critics have been overboard in terms of some of the claims they've made, right?
LEWANDOWSKI: I agree. There's a lot of hyperbole on both sides of this. However, in debates like we had today here in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, the president limited the access to getting into his town hall, so we couldn't have those discussions. Anybody who wanted access needs to submit their name and phone number in writing to the White House. And it was then vetted by the White House to determine who would be allowed into that town hall. How is that an open and honest debate? BROWN: Well, they did have Republicans there at the meeting. I mean, I saw people --
LEWANDOWSKI: There were very few Republicans I can assure you.
BROWN: Did you send your information to the White House?
LEWANDOWSKI: We absolutely did and we had 1,000 people outside the White House -- outside the high school today who wanted to see the president. As you know, he didn't come and visit the protesters, didn't drive by, came in the back door, didn't see the signs. All we're asking for is open and honest debate here.
BROWN: But you don't -- I mean, I'm just looking at some of these pictures and you saw what happened with Claire McCaskill and with Arlen Specter today. I mean, at some of these meetings, you see people burning their congressmen in effigy. I mean, isn't that sort of -- I mean getting you off message if you really do want to make changes to the plans that are on the table?
LEWANDOWSKI: Well, look, the fact remains the Democrats control both Houses of Congress and the administration. They don't need bipartisan support to do this.
They've been trying to push this bill through Congress as quickly as possible. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office has said this bill is going to cost $1.6 trillion as currently written and I think the Democrats and the majority in Congress is afraid to pass that legislation with those massive numbers involved after the administration has already piped in $3 trillion since they've been in office.
BROWN: Dr. Treadwell, let me let you respond.
TREADWELL: Well, I think that we do not have enough coverage for people in this nation who need it. And we are on a roller coaster that's going to crash. We're crashing into debt now. It's going to get worse.
And so when we think about what it will cost us to have a plan, we need to think about the cost of inaction. The costs are coming anyway. Tax dollars are being spent anyway, but not efficiently. So we need a system and a system that I hope will include a public option.
BROWN: All right. Let me say give my thanks to you both. Henrie Treadwell and Corey Lewandowski, thanks for joining us. Appreciate your time tonight.
TREADWELL: Thank you.
LEWANDOWSKI: Thank you.
BROWN: The secretary of state on a major 11-day trip to Africa. All anybody can talk about is a moment critics are calling a meltdown. You'll see it next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It's the new video providing fresh meat for those in the business of trying to analyze, scrutinize and sometimes criticize the Clintons. And now you may have seen some portions of the sound bite from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton reacting very strongly to a question while talking with students in the Congo.
We want to make this clear. The question was incorrectly translated making it sound like the person who was asking how her husband, former President Bill Clinton, felt about a deal between the Congo and china. But in fact, the student wasn't asking about Clinton, he was asking about President Obama and what he thought.
We want you to hear the entire exchange unfiltered. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mrs. Clinton, we've all heard about the Chinese contracts in this country. Their interference from the World Bank against this contract. What does Mr. Clinton think through the mouth of Mrs. Clinton and what does Mr. Mutombo think on this situation? Thank you very much.
HILLARY CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: Wait, you want me to tell you what my husband thinks? My husband is not the secretary of state, I am. So you asked my opinion, I will tell you my opinion. I'm not going to be channeling my husband.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So did Secretary Clinton snap there as some have suggested? Or are some just looking to take a cheap shot after she was given the wrong question?
With us in Washington, CNN contributor and Democratic strategist James Carville. You love this one. And here in New York, "Daily Beast" contributor John Avlon.
John, I'm going to start with you. I mean, this is like a war (INAUDIBLE) test, this tape. Everybody has had a different reaction to it. What was your take?
JOHN AVLON, CONTRIBUTOR, "THE DAILY BEAST": Sure. Well, I think it's such a reveal. I mean, I think really you have a highly scripted political pro and a very unscripted emotional moment. And that's where I think made it news.
Plus in the wake of the whole North Korea questions, a lot of beltway gossip about Bill Clinton being the envoy for a successful mission. I think that ended up stirring the pot for a lot of people.
BROWN: But I've got to tell you, I saw that as her making a statement about women. I did, and women's rights. I saw her in an African country in the Congo where women are treated poorly and her saying I don't -- this isn't about my husband, this is about me and that's how it should be in your country.
I mean, Hillary Clinton to me, and James, I think she's too smart to snap as some people suggested she did. I don't care how much jet lag she had. What do you think? Was it a good moment for her?
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, you know, I don't think it was necessarily a bad moment. You've got to remember too in the Congo has one of the worst records in the country of mutilating women. And I think that, you know, the combination of that and jet lag and actually when you listen to the question that she thought she was getting to be fair the student that asked it wasn't the question he did, but anybody spending time in foreign country deals with interpreters. I know this happens.
I almost see where she would come out. And it's kind of odd because women have reacted to this I think somewhat differently than men. But I can see where she sort of took offense to that.
You know, she's been a United States senator for eight years, been secretary of state, you know, becoming very close to being the party's nominee for president of the United States. I can see why something like this would happen. And I think that she probably was pretty stressed and she, you know, cares very much as anybody would. But she, in particular, about the way these women are mutilated in some of these places. So the combination of things have probably led to that. I don't think that she snapped -- she did appear to be a might peeved to me.
BROWN: Well, I know, but I was going to ask you that because you know her. I mean, does this woman ever lose her cool, though? She seems so thoughtful, so precise...
CARVILLE: Right.
BROWN: ... hard for me to imagine her actually losing her temper.
CARVILLE: Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say she lost her cool. I think she had an understandable reaction to what she thought was a question after, you know, on something that she cares especially about. But she's like the rest of us. She's a human being, and you know so often we say, well, gee, look at them, they're always scripted and, you know, she had one tear of. I don't know what it was a misty eye in New Hampshire which was, you know, voluminous commentary on that.
And I think you got to understand that something like this happens. She is secretary of state. I actually -- you know, my wife kind of defended her passionately about this. And, again, I think that the reaction of women have been a little bit different than men.
I was kind of proud of her.
BROWN: Yes.
CARVILLE: I mean, like, hey, excuse me, but I am -- I'm the person, I'm the secretary of state of the United States. BROWN: Hold on, James hit on something. When you talked about her, you know, when she had that moment where she teared up in New Hampshire and we covered it for weeks, that's it.
AVLON: Right.
BROWN: That people have this endless fascination with Hillary Clinton and anything -- you know, her reaction to anything and everything.
AVLON: Right. And that's because we've lived the drama of the Clintons' lives for better and for worse for the better part of 20 years. We are invested in it.
But on the point about there's this geopolitical spin about she was standing up for women's rights and there may have been an element to that. But I think the strongest message America can send against sexism or the gender part side that does exist around the world is through the power of our example. That's the message that three out of the last four secretaries of states have been women. That's a lot more eloquent a message than just, you know, teeing off at a college student.
BROWN: I thought she was pretty good. All right. We'll agree to disagree. John Avlon, James Carville, as always, thanks, guys. Appreciate it.
CARVILLE: You bet. Thanks
AVLON: Thank you.
BROWN: In tonight's breakout, an American idol-style competition where the contestants are actually risking their lives. You're going to want to see this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Here in the U.S., reality TV is a guilty pleasure. Now, though, through the global reach of CNN, you're about to see it in a whole new light. It is tonight's "Breakout" story. Chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour shows us reality TV in Afghanistan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Eight years ago, when the Taliban ruled Afghanistan, what this young woman is doing might have cost her her life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Singing)
AMANPOUR: But now, she's one of the top contenders on the country's most popular TV show.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Singing)
AMANPOUR (on camera): Are you surprised that you can actually sing? You're a woman and you can sing pop rock here in Afghanistan?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I'm happy things have changed for the better and that a woman like me can finally perform.
AMANPOUR (voice-over): "Afghan Star" is this country's version of "American Idol." It's a mad fusion of traditional Afghan culture and western-style pop.
Backstage, I watched the procession of talents, drummers, dancers, acrobats, child jugglers. The audience and the country loved it.
The show's producers say 80 percent of TV viewers tuned in and cast their votes by mobile phone. This isn't "American Idol" it's "Afghan Star." Nonetheless, it's very similar to a lot of western reality programs.
(on camera): What do you think this means for Afghanistan in the big picture?
SAAD MOHSENI (ph), PRODUCER OF "AFGHAN STAR": Well, I think it shows that in four years you can do a lot.
AMANPOUR (voice-over): Saad Mohseni (ph), an Afghan who grew up in Australia created "Afghan Star."
MOHSENI (ph): What gives me hope is if you look at our staff, they've never run production, they've never done lighting. And within this very short space of time, they've all been able to pick that up.
We have a population that's 60 percent under 21. They can do things. They have a future. We just need to give them the opportunity.
AMANPOUR: An opportunity that fundamentalists like this young Taliban fighter, Mullah Abdullah (ph) disapprove of.
MULLAH ABDULLAH (ph), TALIBAN FIGHTER (through translator): Calling themselves stars is a title they've invented for themselves. That's how they turn something that is sinful into something they think is good.
AMANPOUR: For the "Afghan Star" finals, police were out in force, along with Kabul's trendiest crowd. Their fashion sense may seem locked in a time warp, but they don't sound any different from young people anywhere.
(on camera): Is it important to Afghan young people to be cool?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sure.
AMANPOUR: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With a cool mind, we are trying to be like America.
AMANPOUR: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Step by step, it will be.
AMANPOUR (voice-over): And as with "American Idol," there was the inevitable upset. In one of the final rounds, Elaha (ph) was favored to win against this 19-year-old man Mehran Gulzar (ph). In a dramatic ending, Mehran (ph) got more votes. Elaha (ph) was devastated and her emotions were captured for all to see.
And while this young woman might not have won in the end, her success and the show's popularity is a crucial step for the next generation of Muslims.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: CNN investigates this generation of Muslims at a cross roads, "Generation Islam." It's reported by Christiane, Christiana Amanpour, a two-hour special event Thursday, 9:00 p.m. Eastern only on CNN.
That's it for us tonight. Keep it here for "LARRY KING LIVE." We'll see you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, the frightening in your face battle over health care reform.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't want this country turning into Russia, turning into a socialized country.
BLITZER: Fierce and fired up, crowds are held back to keep them from coming to blows. Is this a life and death struggle for the old, the sick, and the poor? Or a political controversy that's too hot for the president to handle?
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You will not be waiting in any lines. This is not about putting the government in charge of your health insurance.
BLITZER: Will health care reform make or break Barack Obama?
Then, as Senator Ted Kennedy fights for his life, his sister, Eunice Kennedy Shriver, passes away. America's most famous family mourns once more.
Next on LARRY KING LIVE.
