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American Morning
Obama Takes His Health Care Reform Case on the Road; Health Care Town Hall Meetings Turn Into Shouting Matches; Eunice Kennedy Shriver Dead at 88; Passengers Stuck on Tarmac; Redefining Success in Afghanistan; Michael Jackson Investigation; Cartels Now Involved in Human Smuggling; Swine Flu Guinea Pigs
Aired August 11, 2009 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to AMERICAN MORNING. It's Tuesday, it's August 11. Glad you're with us. I'm Kiran Chetry.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you. I'm John Roberts. There's a lot going on this morning and here are the top stories that we'll be breaking down for you here in the next 15 minutes on the Most News in the Morning.
President Obama preparing to take his plan for health care reform directly to the people today. Elaine Quijano is live at the White House where the president's health care message may be changing in the face of mounting criticism.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton losing her diplomatic cool on her trip to Africa. She thought she was being asked for her husband's opinion. Something ended up getting lost in translation. We'll show you how it all went down during a town hall with students in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
ROBERTS: And an in-flight nightmare. Dozens of passengers stuck on the tarmac all night long. The airline refusing to let them off the plane.
Oh, my goodness, how'd you like to be trapped there? We'll tell you what happened and why it has sparked new calls for a passenger's bill of rights.
CHETRY: We begin though with the White House that's preparing for a fight this morning. President Obama ready to hit the road in a few hours to sell his plan for health care reform. He'll be canvassing the country over the next five days holding three town hall meetings, including one this afternoon in New Hampshire. And they're calculated to ease the fears of millions of Americans who don't want the government messing with their health care. One woman packed a town hall meeting last night at the senior center in North Arlington, New Jersey. Here's what her concern was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My opinion that we have the best health care in the world. People from Canada and Europe (INAUDIBLE). Where are we going to go? If this health care gets passed (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: In just a moment, Brianna Keilar is going to be joining us live from Missouri where tempers flare in another health care town hall meeting.
First, though, we start with Elaine Quijano with the White House. And so, we're talking again about the president tweaking his message today as he heads to New Hampshire. Is that a sign that this administration is concerned about the ratcheting up of this debate that's been going on around the country?
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, obviously, they're trying to tackle some of these criticisms head on. You're right. The White House is now trying to aim its message, Kiran, more directly at people who already have health insurance. We've heard White House officials, in fact, refer to this now not as health care reform but health insurance reform.
So in New Hampshire, today, you can expect President Obama to hit on some familiar themes, things like making sure that insurance companies can't deny someone coverage because of pre-existing condition. Things like putting a cap on out of pocket expenses.
Now at the same time the administration is concerned about these critics. And so it's launched on its Web site a thing called a reality check. And this is really obviously a sign that the White House is concerned. Some of these arguments might be getting traction. So this is just the latest tool, the so-called reality check that the White House is using to try to counter some of the criticisms out there -- Kiran.
CHETRY: And we heard the president address it in his weekly radio address where he said, you know, don't listen to some of the misinformation out there. But other than that, we haven't really had that much of a reaction from some of the fireworks at these town hall meetings. Are we getting any insight into what the president thinks about them?
QUIJANO: Yes. You know, the president briefly talked about this yesterday in Mexico. And he said, look, I think it's a healthy thing to have a vigorous debate that it's necessary right now because he believes health care reform cannot wait. But aides are also saying that the president thinks it's just not constructive, it's not productive when you have people essentially outshouting or trying to outshout other people at town hall meetings on health care. They say, look, in the long run that just doesn't do anything to help anyone and certainly doesn't further the debate -- Kiran.
CHETRY: Elaine Quijano for us this morning. Thanks so much.
ROBERTS: Democratic lawmakers have been hitting a wall of opposition trying to pitch the president's health care plan. Town hall meetings all across the country turning into shouting matches. People say they're afraid of losing what they have now and what might happen if the government steps in. Last night in rural Missouri, it was more of the same. Let's go to Brianna Keilar now. She is live in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, where Democrats are finding the health care reform is a tough sell in the Show-Me state.
Hey, Brianna.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, John. Senator Claire McCaskill was supposed to have two town hall events today. But the one this morning was cancelled. The high school where it was supposed to be held, officials there citing security concerns and going ahead and cancelling it. Now neither of her events yesterday got out of hand but certainly one got pretty close.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KEILAR: Poplar Bluff in southeastern Missouri -- it's rural communities like this one where Democrats are trying to win the health care debate and as Senator Claire McCaskill is well aware, it's a tough crowd.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is more about taking power and control than it is about health care because health care -- it's only socialism.
KEILAR: While McCaskill's town hall meeting in Poplar Bluff threatened to boil over at times...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why...
KEILAR: Fifty miles southeast in Kennett, another smaller meeting was downright civil. One audience member, a critic of Democrats' health care reform efforts asked McCaskill what she makes of the recent rowdiness at health care events. She was empathetic.
SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL (D), MISSOURI: I think it was a huge mistake for anyone to suggest that anybody who's opposed to the health care plan is manufactured. It's not manufactured. Now, I think both sides are organizing but that's what we do in a democracy.
KEILAR: As McCaskill tried to disarm critics of the Democrats' proposal for a government-run insurance plan that she supports, she was also quick to rebuff conservative claims that it would limit care for seniors and fund abortions.
MCCASKILL: There is nothing in the bill that mandates any kind of abortion coverage. That's just simply not true.
KEILAR: Or that it's a government takeover of health care.
MCCASKILL: I can tell you Congress is not going to pass a single payer plan.
KEILAR: And McCaskill pointed a finger at insurance companies.
MCCASKILL: In 2007, they made $12.9 billion in profits. So we've got to do something about health insurance reform. If you get really sick and lose your job, they have the right to say we're not going to give you insurance.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KEILAR: That is a key talking point for Democrats, painting these insurance companies as the bad guys here. Democratic leaders in the House and the Senate really pushed congressional Democrats as they left for Washington during this critical month for health care to hit hard on that very point, John.
ROBERTS: Brianna Keilar live for us this morning. Brianna, thanks so much.
The battle over health care reform also lighting up our amFIX hotline. Calls have been pouring in from both sides of the debate. Here's some of what you're all saying.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CALLER: I think these town hall meetings were a necessary part of our democracy.
CALLER: It's absolutely ridiculous that this bill is even on the table. Let's help those people who don't have health care. Let's come up with a program to help them.
CALLER: I support the health care bill. We do need change. And, you know, I can't afford to pay my insurance anymore and that's my problem.
CALLER: I'm a Democrat and I am opposed to the health care plan. Nobody's paid me to call you. And I am not a part of no large group except I'm 52 years old and having problems with Medicare already.
CALLER: If the American people will just sit back and take care of themselves, health care would be the least of their problems.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ROBERTS: And we want to hear from more of you. Call our show hotline at 877-MY-AMFIX or drop us a note on our Web site at CNN.com/amFIX.
CHETRY: Other stories new this morning. The family of critically-ill Eunice Kennedy Shriver is at her bedside in a Cape Cod hospital after she apparently took a turn for the worse. The 88-year- old sister of President John F. Kennedy was hospitalized last week. California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger left the state to be with his mother-in-law, and a Vatican official says the pope is praying for her.
ROBERTS: Divers will be back in the Hudson River this morning after locating the wreckage of a small plane and the body of another victim inside. Nine people died when the plane collided with a sight- seeing helicopter over the Hudson on Saturday. Now we're hearing the first 911 calls from witnesses just moments after impact.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 DISPATCH: 911 operator 132, what is your emergency?
911 CALLER: I just saw an airplane hit a helicopter in the Hudson River here. The location is River Road and 4th, approximately.
911 DISPATCH: River Road and 4th Street?
911 CALLER: Yes.
911 DISPATCH: And you said...
911 CALLER: An airplane just hit a helicopter. The helicopter went down into the water. The plane, I'm not sure what happened, where it is. I can't see it from my window.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Recovery crews will now begin the process of lifting the aircraft remains to the surface.
CHETRY: Well, two dozen people trapped on a roller coaster in an amusement park in Santa Clara, California. They were stranded for hours in 90-degree heat, some of them stuck as high as 90 feet in the air. It took firefighters nearly six hours to get everybody off. The crews say the Invertigo ride suddenly stopped because of mechanical failure. Some scary moments but in the end everyone was OK.
And a rather undiplomatic moment for Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in the middle of her marathon tour of Africa. She flashed some anger in response to a student's question in Congo. He wanted to know President Obama's opinion on an international trade deal involving China, but the translator misspoke, instead asking her what President Clinton thought. Here's what followed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Wait, you want me to tell you what my husband thinks? My husband is not the secretary of state, I am? So you ask my opinion, I will tell you my opinion. I'm not going to be channeling my husband.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: It all ended well, though. There were handshakes, afterward, and apparently no hard feelings.
CHETRY: Yes. Then as it turns out, it was the -- lost in translation.
ROBERTS: It was a lost in translation moment, yes.
CHETRY: The student was actually asking what President Obama thought and it was translated as Mr. Clinton. And, so really I guess they were asking what the president thinks.
ROBERTS: Just a little sensitive there. Looks like it.
CHETRY: There you go. Probably, you know, she was fielding a lot of questions about what her husband was doing when it came to helping free Euna Lee and Lisa Ling. So...
ROBERTS: It's been a long trip.
CHETRY: Yes. Well, you know what? She's human. Those are human moments.
All right. Well, talk about an in-flight nightmare. How about this one? You're stuck on a tarmac for six hours. Not in a comfy, you know, big plane, but a little small regional.
ROBERTS: Bad enough to have to fly on those things let alone sit on for six hours overnight.
CHETRY: And the person we're going to be speaking to coming up at our next hour says it was literally like being in a sardine can. And wait until you find out what the airline claims is the reason why they wouldn't let these passengers including some seven screaming babies off of the plane the entire night.
Ten minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. Just days after calling the president's health care plan "downright evil," former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin now says we need civil discourse on health care reform. In her latest on-line posting, Palin says people must stick to discussing the issues and not get sidetracked by tactics that can be accused of leading to intimidation or harassment.
CHETRY: Then she raised a lot of eyebrows with her Facebook entry about "death panels" -- Obama's death panels.
All right. We're back now from that it seems.
Bad loans are still a big threat to America's banks. A congressional panel overseeing the $700 billion bailout says that even though the nation's financial system has stabilized, the banks are still holding billions of dollars in bad loans and many of those banks could fail if unemployment goes higher or if the commercial real estate market collapses.
ROBERTS: And the streak is over. After 20 straight days of raising gas prices, the cost of a gallon of unleaded regular actually went down overnight by two-tenths of a penny. According to AAA, the national average is now $2.64.
I've noticed a correlation here. Gas prices go up until we discover it and then we say something about it and then they go back down again. CHETRY: Wow, that's powerful.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Maybe we should just talk about it all the time.
ROBERTS: While they're not watching.
ELAM: Exactly.
ROBERTS: Stephanie Elam here this morning for Christine Romans "Minding Your Business." Good morning to you.
ELAM: Good morning. So we're talking about gas going up. How about overdraft fees going up too? That's when you go to the bank. You know what those are, right?
CHETRY: Yes, finding ways to make money, you know, in these tough times and they're hiking the fees on people.
ELAM: Right. And these have been around.
ROBERTS: I saw this one bank where you actually had to put a quarter in the door to get it open. No, I'm kidding.
ELAM: You're making that one up. I have seen some interesting stuff at ATMs like Warrens in California and the IOUs coming up on ATMs. But this a little bit of a different thing.
This is talking about you go to the bank. Let's say you take your ATM card and you pull out some money or you pay for something at the grocery store and you're $20 over the limit. Well, the bank says, oh, don't worry, we'll pay that for you. But then we're going to put on this $30 fee because you went over your limit. That's what we're talking about when we say overdraft fees.
Well, it turns out that this is a nice big cash cow for banks. They are looking to make $35.5 billion this year off of these fees. We're talking about just these fees alone related to overdrafts. That's a record number. And it's almost double the $19.9 billion that we saw in 2000 from these years -- in that year.
Now take a look at the fees overall. And this year, we can say that the fees have actually gone up. They're saying that the national median overdraft fee rose to $26 from $25 in 2008. And really what we're saying here is that per overdraft, if you do this a lot, you're paying $26 for each time you do that.
Now some of the larger banks, the median there is $35. This is coming from Meds Services (ph), which has been tracking this data and trying to figure out how this really affects people. And here's the thing -- overdraft revenue is really making more money for the banks than their net income.
So this is a huge number. They're not going to get rid of it because it works for them. But at the same time, a lot of people saying consumers need to know how this is affecting them, how much they're paying and when this happens because nearly 90 percent of the overdraft fees that are paid are coming from just 10 percent of banking customers. So these are the same 10 percent that are going back over and over again enjoying them. And at the end of the year they tally that's how much they're spending, it probably really hurt. Probably a mortgage payment in there.
CHETRY: Oh, yes. And there's also a lot of other changes they're tacking on the annual fees that used to be free and various other things. I mean, they're trying to find ways to make money in these times as well but...
ROBERTS: Who got tagged with a $450 overdraft charge? Someone who works here was telling us just the other day.
ELAM: They said it on the air.
ROBERTS: Yes.
ELAM: Wow.
ROBERTS: Yes.
ELAM: That's painful.
ROBERTS: It wasn't Christine, I don't think. It was somebody else. But they actually -- they did something and they thought that they had more money than they did. $450 later they're like -- whoa.
ELAM: And then these fees all add up and they get people. And they're saying a lot of people who are doing it their credit scores are below 590, around that (INAUDIBLE) below.
ROBERTS: Oh, it was Gerri. It was Gerri.
CHETRY: Gerri is always the one telling you to watch out.
ROBERTS: Exactly. Gerri is telling you how to watch your money, so you can't watch your own.
ELAM: That just goes to show you how easy it is to get people. Even people who are used to looking at their money and knowing all those information can still get by this.
CHETRY: Oh, yes.
ELAM: So, it's a big revenue maker but at the same time it's one of those things that you really have to track otherwise it will eat away at your income.
ROBERTS: And how far are we, though -- you know, I was kidding about putting a quarter in the door. But you know, after hours when you go to an ATM, you got to put your card in the slot to open the door.
CHETRY: Right.
ELAM: Wasn't happening.
CHETRY: You may have just given them an idea, John, great.
ELAM: Thanks.
CHETRY: Stephanie, we'll check in with you later.
ROBERTS: "Minding Your Business" this morning, thanks, Steph.
ELAM: Sure.
CHETRY: And also ahead, we're going to be talking about this in- flight nightmare. Passengers ended up stuck on the tarmac. They got rerouted because of bad weather, got stuck on the tarmac overnight in one of the small regional planes. It was a Continental Airlines flight.
We have a person who lived through the nightmare. He's going to be joining us to talk more about what happened.
It's 17 1/2 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
ROBERTS: Twenty minutes after the hour on the Most News in the Morning. And some sad news to report to you today. Eunice Kennedy Shriver, the sister of President John Kennedy, one of nine Kennedy children has died today. She was 88 years old. She had been sick and debilitated after a series of small strokes. She was at Cape Cod hospital in Barnstable, Massachusetts.
The family had been summoned to her bedside over the last few days. They knew that the end was near. And this morning, we get the news that Eunice Kennedy Shriver, again, the sister of President John Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, the wife of Sargent Shriver, has died this morning at the age of 88.
CHETRY: Yes. She was Marie Shriver's mother and the mother-in- law of Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, who actually abruptly left the conference he was taking part in to be there with the family. She's somebody who started the Special Olympics, and she's a very beloved figure in the Kennedy clan. Wolf Blitzer right now takes a look back at her life.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): The fifth child of Josephine Rose Kennedy, Eunice Kennedy Shriver was a tireless crusader for the developmentally disabled. In 1962 when her older brother, John, was president, Shriver wrote an article on "The Saturday Evening Post" revealing that one of the Kennedy siblings, Rosemary, was retarded. She called for a national campaign to bring people like her sister into the mainstream of American life. After the assassinations of her brothers, John and Bobby, Eunice Shriver's crusade continued. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EUNICE KENNEDY SHRIVER, JOHN F. KENNEDY'S SISTER: In ancient Rome, the gladiators went into the arena with these words on their lips -- let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: She founded the Special Olympics in 1968. The fist games held in Chicago lasted two days, attracting 1,000 athletes from 26 states and Canada.
Operating with what some have called a high-octane fervor, Shriver helped develop the Special Olympics into a year-round global enterprise in which more than one million athletes participate. In 1984, President Ronald Reagan presented her with the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the nation's highest civilian award.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RONALD REAGAN, 40TH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For decency and goodness that touched the lives of many, and Eunice Kennedy Shriver deserves America's praise, gratitude and love.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: In 1998, another president and first lady paid tribute to Shriver on the 30th anniversary of the founding of the Special Olympics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, THEN-FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: Anyone just steps back for a minute and watches Eunice in action, it's exhausting. A lifetime of dedication to public service, she's been a personal inspiration to me and to so many others.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Shriver was married since 1953 to Sargent Shriver, the first director of the Peace Corp, and a Democratic nominee for vice president in 1972. They have five children, including the first lady of California and broadcast journalist, Maria Shriver Schwarzenegger.
Exuberant, restless, deeply religious, Eunice Shriver changed the way the world views the developmentally disabled. As "U.S. News and World Report" said of her, "When the full judgment of the Kennedy legacy is made, the changes wrought by Eunice Kennedy Shriver may well be seen as the most consequential."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: And Eunice Kennedy Shriver dead this morning at the age of 88.
CHETRY: She'll be missed. And as you saw, the contributions that she's made to this country are many.
It's 24 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Well, if it hasn't happened to you, chances are you know someone who has an airplane horror story to tell. Well, 47 passengers who flew Continental Express from Houston to Minneapolis certainly have a horror story to share with you today.
CHETRY: It's a flight that's supposed to take about three hours. It lasted nearly 12 and most of that time, the passengers were trapped in a stuffy plane on the runway overnight with little or no food and water and the stench of the overflowing restroom. And what may be even more infuriating is that some airport officials say it didn't have to happen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHETRY (voice-over): Rochester International Airport was supposed to be a pit stop for passengers onboard one flight. But they ended up spending the entire night, stuck inside a small commuter plane on the tarmac. It was after midnight. Babies, several of them, were screaming. And if that wasn't enough to keep you awake, the stench coming from the restroom was. It was a trip Link Christin will not soon forget.
LINK CHRISTIN, PASSENGER (via telephone): Everybody in the plane was kind of moving trying to find positions to sleep in. There wasn't any room. The plane was getting warmer.
CHETRY: For six long hours, Christin and 46 others sat trapped and helpless. And through the window they could see the terminal just 50 yards away.
CHRISTIN: The smells are getting worse. The bathroom was getting worse. The babies had obviously started going to the bathroom.
CHETRY: Their flight, Continental Express 2816, was headed from Houston to Minneapolis when it hit thunderstorms. It circled for a while then had to land in Rochester, Minnesota. From there, it just kept getting worse. ExpressJet which operated the flight decided to wait for the weather to improve.
CHRISTIN: We were going to wait until the storms got better. So we waited like good passengers for a couple of hours.
CHETRY: At 2:00 a.m., the flight was cleared for takeoff but more storms moved in. Passengers sat waiting, and waiting with no food and no water.
CHRISTIN: Nobody said anything about what was going on.
CHETRY: At 5:00 a.m., cleared again, but then the crew had worked past the legal time limit and couldn't fly. It wasn't until an hour later, six hours since they landed, that the passengers were let into the terminal. ExpressJet says they had to wait until security screeners were on duty.
CHRISTIN: I think there were a variety of options they could have utilized, not the least of which is to call the manager of the airport.
CHETRY: The airport manager says he never got that call and told a local newspaper that a Delta flight deplaned at 3:30 a.m., and that he would have happily let the Continental passengers in. But ultimately that decision is up to the airline.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHETRY: It makes your skin crawl, doesn't it? To hear that. Well, the plane got a new crew and eventually they did take off but with the same busted toilet on that plane. The Continental crew has called the situation -- or Continental Airlines has called the situation completely unacceptable. Also, it went on to say it's working with ExpressJet to resolve the issue. They say the passengers will be getting a full refund for that flight and also a voucher good for future travel.
ROBERTS: And the passenger that you just heard from, by the way, Link Christin, is going to be here live in just about an hour or two, recap the nightmare on the ground on that Continental ExpressJet for us in person.
The story left us wondering where the airline passenger bill of rights stands on Capitol Hill. Here's more for you on an "AM Extra."
It turns out that the Senate Commerce Committee passed legislation in June that would force airlines to let people off a plane after they have been stuck on the tarmac for three hours. It would also require the airlines to provide adequate food, water and bathrooms and establish a hotline for people to file formal complaints. The full Senate is expected to take up the legislation in September.
Now to our top stories this morning. President Obama is hitting the road today to sell his health care plan. He's in New Hampshire this afternoon for a town hall meeting. The White House tried to counter growing criticism and calm fears about health care reform. More health care town halls are planned for later on this week.
CHETRY: House Democrats backing down from a deal that would have forced the Pentagon to buy four new passenger jets typically used for travel by senior government officials and members of Congress. Democrats were criticized for adding $330 million to the Air Force's 2010 budget to buy the jets even though the Pentagon did not request that money.
ROBERTS: Two powerful earthquakes in Asia. In Japan, one person killed and dozens more injured when a magnitude 6.5 quake hit Tokyo. A second earthquake measuring 7.6 hit in the Indian Ocean near India's Endeman (ph) Islands triggering a tsunami watch. The two quakes hit about 10 minutes apart.
Right now, the White House is working on a list of about 50 new guidelines to measure just how successful the war is going in Afghanistan. Our top military official there, General Stanley McChrystal, says the Taliban is gaining momentum and we should prepare to lose more of our troops in the coming months.
Our next guest, Andrew Exum, is a fellow with the Center for New American Security. He recently returned from Afghanistan, where he served on General McChrystal's strategy review team. He joins us this morning from Washington.
Andrew, it's good to see you. Thanks for being with us.
ANDREW EXUM, FELLOW, CENTER FOR A NEW AMERICAN SECURITY: Sure thing.
ROBERTS: The Senate Foreign Relations Committee has got a report coming out this week in which it talks about Afghanistan, the situation there and some possible solutions. It says, quote -- according to the "New York Times" at least, "The deterioration of the security situation in Afghanistan is conspicuous."
General McChrystal told "The Wall Street Journal" in an interview not too long ago that the Taliban is gaining the upper hand. You just recently returned from there, as we said, what did you find the situation on the ground?
EXUM: Well, I think that the situation is deteriorating in one sense. In another sense, the American people should understand that it's not like the Taliban or the Haqqani network or any of these insurgent groups in Afghanistan are going to be able to take over the government any time soon. We're not at that phase.
But what we are worried about is we're not so much worried about these attacks against the U.S. and coalition troops, but we're worried about a campaign of fear and intimidation that we believe is taking place in key population centers in Afghanistan, specifically Kandahar in the south and the Kalispell (ph) in the east.
ROBERTS: There are estimates that the Taliban controls about 30 percent to 40 percent of the country now. We're eight years into this. The situation is worse now than at any time since the war in October or in November, December of 2001.
What's going on? What went wrong?
EXUM: Well, I think this is frustrating for the American people, because on the one hand, people kind of lose sight of the fact that Afghanistan has been an economy of force mission for the past five, six years as we've been concentrating on Iraq. But having said that, we're moving into our ninth year of open combat in Afghanistan.
So I can understand the frustration. I think people need to understand, though, that we've never really made Afghanistan the main effort. We've never properly resourced this war and we're paying the consequences right now.
ROBERTS: You know, Anthony Cordesman from the Center for Strategic and International Studies who was also a member of the review group had this assessment. He said, quote, "There's not enough money. There's not enough troops. There's not enough arming of the Afghans. And failure is all too real a possibility."
What needs to be done, Andrew, to turn things around there?
EXUM: Well, I think Tony put his -- put his finger on one thing, and that's more resources and not just more troops on the ground. But even if you put more U.S. or Allied troops on the ground, what we really need to do are build up certain key institutions in the Afghan state so that we can begin to fight this war in a more indirect way, and specifically building up the Afghan national security forces.
We've got big problems in both the Afghan national police as well as the Afghan national army. And we need to invest more in both -- in both organizations.
But not only that, but we need to partner with these organizations so that when we send the Afghan national police out into the field, for example, they're not being predatory towards the Afghan people, which unfortunately is all too often been the case in Afghanistan.
ROBERTS: At the heart of Senate Foreign Relations Committee report is the battle against the drug traffickers in Afghanistan, saying that attacking the opium trade would dry up the source of revenue for the Taliban and therefore weaken them. They're targeting apparently 50 very prominent drug traffickers.
It kind of brings to mind this idea that we've been fighting drug trafficking in the western hemisphere for decades now without making a significant dent in it.
Can we expect that we can, you know, change -- you change the equation, have a different outcome in Afghanistan by going after drug traffickers?
EXUM: Yes. I'm deeply skeptical of any counter-narcotics programs that we run in Afghanistan, expecting it to have an effect on the Taliban.
First off, a lot of the money goes into the hands of local power brokers, not necessarily the Taliban.
Second, I'm not sure that any reduction in narco trafficking, ending that income for the Taliban, is going to have a demonstrable effect on their -- on their capability to conduct the tax inside Afghanistan.
I'm deeply skeptical of counter-narcotics operations. I think we need to privilege our operations towards those which protect the Afghan people from this campaign of fear and intimidation that the Taliban and its allies are waging in east and southern Afghanistan. ROBERTS: And, Andrew, do you think that this thing is truly winnable in Afghanistan? Can the United States get to a point where we can pull out our troops and leave behind a stable enough Afghanistan that eventually the Taliban will not retake control and the whole place won't fall apart again and become a haven for terrorists as it was in the late 1990s?
EXUM: Yes, I think the answer to that question is yes, but. Yes, the situation in Afghanistan -- we can -- we can win the war. We can build up an Afghan state that's going to be capable. It's going to have institutions that are going to be able to defend it from Al Qaeda and its allies, but having said that, we need a lot of help from the Afghan government.
And so one of the things I'm going to be looking at is what the Afghan government does after the elections. What ministers they keep in place. What governors they keep in place. If they put in, you know, cronies or people who -- more warlords into power, we've got a real problem as far as the government's legitimacy. If we're able to keep key ministers in place who can build up these institutions, who can be partners for the United States and our NATO allies, then we may have a better chance for success.
ROBERTS: Very important story. We'll keep watching closely. Andrew Exum, thanks for being with us this morning. Appreciate your time.
EXUM: Sure thing.
ROBERTS: All right. Kiran?
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We've gotten word that the autopsy is complete on Michael Jackson. But that is far from being released as many, many questions still linger in this case. We're going to have more details for you coming up.
It's 36 1/2 minutes past the hour.
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ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
A quick check of what's ahead now in the "AM Rundown."
Extreme weather on the move and a big storm watch in Hawaii, and a tropical depression just formed in the Atlantic Ocean. Jacqui Jeras is tracking Hurricane Felicia in the Pacific. And she'll have some information for us on what's going on in the Atlantic.
The Mexican drug cartels are expanding their criminal enterprise, smuggling not only drugs but now humans. CNN's Michael Ware has got that story for us.
And Americans are rolling up their sleeves as clinical trials for a potential swine flu vaccine get under way. Our senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is following that for us today - Kiran. CHETRY: We have some new developments this morning in the investigation of Michael Jackson's death. The LA County coroner's office now says that it knows what killed Michael Jackson, but is not going public with the information just yet.
CNN's Ted Rowlands is following that for us, along with the new battle lines in the fight over Michael Jackson's estate.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John and Kiran, after more than six weeks of investigating, the LA County coroner released a statement saying that they have finished all of their work, finished the investigation into the death of Michael Jackson. Presumably a cause of death has been determined.
However, they will not be releasing that information to the general public because the LAPD has asked them to keep a hold on that information until the police investigation concludes on the death.
So, while they know what killed Michael Jackson, they know what was in his system, the toxicology is back, the public will not know until the LAPD gives them the go-ahead. They're not sure when that is going to happen. They're saying that basically the hold -- the security hold that's in place will be kept in place indefinitely until the LAPD gives them the OK.
Busy day in court as well on Monday. The attorneys all gathered as they continue to haggle over the Michael Jackson estate. And the judge in the case determined that Jackson children need representation, saying that he couldn't make some of these decisions in terms of some deals that are out there that could bring money into the estate if the children didn't have a voice.
So what he's doing is he's appointing a lawyer for the children. He's delayed a couple of decisions, specifically a decision for some concerts next year in London and a memorabilia tour until someone representing the children's interest can come in to court and basically argue for their side.
The judge did give the go-ahead for Sony Pictures to release a documentary in October using footage from the Jackson rehearsals. That is expected to be finished soon. They paid, said Sony, a minimum of $60 million to get rights to that footage for this documentary - John, Kiran.
CHETRY: Ted Rowlands for us. Thanks so much.
Still ahead, we're going to check in with Michael Ware. He's been looking into the drug trade in Mexico. And now he's talking more about drug cartels that are branching out, smuggling not only drugs but humans as well.
Forty-two minutes past the hour.
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ROBERTS: We're back with the Most News in the Morning. A live look at Atlanta with the sun coming up this morning. It's 75 there right now, going up to a high of 92. And, as can be expected this time of the year, thunderstorms in the forecast again.
It's 45 minutes after the hour. Let's fast forward to stories that will be making news later on today.
The Federal Reserve starts a two-day session this morning. A lot of analysts waiting to hear if we turned the corner on the recession. Most observers expect the Fed to keep key interest rates near zero.
At 8:00 Eastern this morning, GM CEO Fritz Henderson will make an announcement about the company's products. Just yesterday, the automaker revealed plans to begin selling cars on eBay starting in California. The idea? To give customers the option of avoiding showroom sales people.
And at 3:00 Eastern, Bernard Madoff's right hand man during decades of massive fraud on Wall Street is expected to plead guilty to criminal charges. Frank DiPascali agreed to enter the plea in a federal court in Manhattan.
So, would you buy a new car on eBay?
CHETRY: No. Got to get in there and feel it. See what it's like to ride, you know.
ROBERTS: I remember when I was a kid -- now granted, that was a long time ago, just after the extinction of the dinosaurs.
They did have car showroom and it was always kind of like a thing that you would in the fall when you would go around all of the dealerships and see the new cars, you know? We're talking like 1968 model here, but, you know, what the heck, it was a lot of fun.
CHETRY: If you were my parents, you went dealership after dealership and rode car after car after car after car.
ROBERTS: Actually it was more like 1972, and I remember when the Dodge Super B came out. You know, with the big wing on the back. Wow. What a year that was.
CHETRY: You have to show me the pictures.
ROBERTS: And they cleaned up in NASCAR as well.
CHETRY: Memories.
All right. Well, right now, it's 47 minutes after the hour. Rob Marciano is off. Jacqui Jeras in the weather center in Atlanta for us.
What do you think? Would you buy a car on eBay? I know a lot of people do.
JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, I agree with you. You know, you've got to drive it. You've got to drive it. Definitely. (WEATHER REPORT)
ROBERTS: All right. Jacqui Jeras for us this morning. Jacqui, thanks so much. We'll check back with you a little bit later on.
So, drug cartels in Mexico. We know all about the violence, the number of people that are dead. Yesterday, Michael Ware brought us a story about "El Chapo" who is one of the drug kingpins.
Well, this morning, he brings us a different story. Not only are they trafficking in drugs, they're also trafficking in humans. People sold into slavery. Wait until you hear some of the stories that he heard from a group of women who were trafficked by these drug cartels. It's just absolutely stunning. Join Michael coming up in just a couple of minutes.
Forty-eight and a half minutes now after the hour.
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ROBERTS: It's 51 minutes after the hour. We're back with the Most News in the Morning.
Police in Mexico have reportedly broken up a plot to assassinate President Felipe Calderon. "The New York Times" reports five suspects were arrested on Sunday, including a member of the well known drug cartel. These days it seems that Mexico's drug dealers will stop at nothing to protect their interests and make money.
Our Michael Ware reports, they are now branching out, smuggling not just drugs but humans, too.
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MICHAEL WARE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is a tale of kidnap, imprisonment and worse, much worse. It's the story of those who fall prey to Mexico's drug cartels because of their hope to come to America.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (speaking in foreign language): Because they didn't let me free, they raped me.
WARE (voice-over): I cannot tell you her name nor anyone else's in this story. Nor can I show you their faces or tell you where I met them. Because if I did, they say, they would almost certainly be killed.
That's because the violent drug cartels have a new and lucrative business. Think of it as a hostile takeover, the people smuggling business.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We were very scared because these men were very bad. They don't have a soul. They can just kill an immigrant without a thought because to them, we don't count for anything. WARE: This woman fled the poverty of her hometown, the seventh of 12 children. As hundreds do every week in Central America, she headed north for Mexico, bound for the U.S., only to be seized by one of the most brutal cartels in the business, Los Zetas.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We boarded the train, when the train arrived to (INAUDIBLE), many vans drove by with members of Los Zetas. They kidnapped us and took us to a secret location.
WARE: The cartel ransomed them off for whatever they can get, selling them back to families who barely could pay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They control all the routes. They have the infrastructure. They have the money. They have the people. They have the guns. They have everything right now to control everything.
WARE: This man is one of few working with the cartel's victims. He tells us the cartel's new business, human trafficking is flourishing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. This is not only a drugs issue. It's getting money. Where come from, the money, they don't care.
WARE: And some of the money is used for bribery. When the car carrying the young woman in our story arrived at an immigration police checkpoint, she hoped her ordeal with the cartel was over. But she said the immigration officials were in on it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I was telling myself, thank God, something is going to happen the instant an immigration officer approaches. But the kidnapper in the car said he was a member of an organization without name, and made some hand signal, and the immigration officer said, "OK, go through."
WARE: This is another woman who was held by a cartel. Her family was unable to pay a ransom, so for four months she was forced to work, cooking for the other hostages and the cartel kidnappers themselves.
And anything that makes cartels like Los Zetas stronger is a threat to America, particularly when it offers new means of importing more drugs.
RALPH REYES, DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION: The Zetas are a prime example of an organization that has, from a traditional perspective, looked into other areas of making money, specifically with the human smuggling situation. It is a means of introducing drugs into the United States.
WARE: And that means only one thing -- many more horror stories to come.
Michael Ware, CNN, Mexico.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHETRY: Disturbing stuff.
ROBERTS: It really is. It's just -- it's just terrible. As Michael was saying last night on "360," any lucrative business that they think they can get into, and what more and more pressure being put on them by the authorise and the drug smuggling operations, they will turn to other businesses. And they suggested that, you know, while they're engaged in all this criminal activity, they might have been get involved in some legit businesses.
CHETRY: Anything to make money?
ROBERTS: Anything to make money.
CHETRY: Well, still ahead, we're going to be talking about trying to find a vaccine for swine flu. They are possibly starting these clinical trials for a potential swine flu vaccine, but should you get it if it comes out in the fall. Who is most at risk? We're going to be talking with our senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen about that. 55 minutes now after the hour.
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CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
Flu season is fast approaching. And this fall, swine flu is expected to hit especially hard. So would you be the guinea pig for a vaccine? Well, if you said yes, you're not alone. In eight states, people are actually racing to sign up. Our senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen shows us why.
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ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Tyra Smith's boyfriend Chris Louise suggested they be guinea pigs in a swine flu vaccination study, initially she wasn't so crazy about the idea. She doesn't like needles, but she thought she'd help.
TYRA SMITH, TRIAL PARTICIPANT: I think it's good that somebody doing a study that can help people.
COHEN: So now Louise and Smith are among the first Americans to receive vaccinations against the 2009 H1N1 virus. They're part of the study of 2400 people. They'll give blood samples and keep diaries of their symptoms all as part of the effort to get a swine flu vaccine ready for the fall.
DR. KAREN KOTLOFF, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: The purpose of the studies that we're doing is to try to collect information that will help to inform policy makers about the best way to give the pandemic H1N1 flu vaccine. We're looking to see whether we need one or two doses, and what strengths we need it.
COHEN: The studies are being done at eight centers nationwide. For now, only adults are being tested.
DAN MONAKIL, TRIAL PARTICIPANT: I understand the process and it doesn't intimidate me in any way.
COHEN: Pediatric trials are scheduled to begin in a few weeks. Federal health officials are hoping to have a vaccine ready by mid October, but concede it might be later. Once the vaccine does come out, certain groups of people will be first in line to get it.
Pregnant women, anyone between the ages of six months and 24 years old, parents and caretakers of babies under the age of six months, emergency health care workers and 25 to 64 year olds with health problems.
Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
