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Obama on the Offensive; Real Americans Sound Off in the Street; Swastika Painted at Georgia Congressman's Office; U.S. Soldier Accused of Killing for Mexican Drug Cartel; Americans Detained by Iranian Authorities for Illegally Crossing Border; Health Care Town Hall Meetings Continue
Aired August 12, 2009 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: We begin the hour with President Obama on the offensive, trying to calm fears and to clear up misconceptions when it comes to health care reform. The president holding a town hall meeting yesterday in New Hampshire. The crowd there civil but not in Missouri or Pennsylvania where the town hall meetings turned chaotic. Security officers actually were forced to remove audience members when things threatened to get out of control.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (D), PENNSYLAVANIA: You want to be lead out of here, you're welcome to go. Now, wait a minute. Now, wait a minute. Now wait a minute. Now wait a minute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One day, God's going to stand before you and he's going to judge you and the rest of your damn cronies up on the Hill.
SPECTER: OK. OK. We just had a -- we just had a demonstration of democracy, OK?
SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL (D), MISSOURI: I don't understand this rudeness. What is this? I don't get it. I honestly don't get it. Do you all think that you're persuading people when you shout out like that?
You don't trust me?
(INAUDIBLE)
MCCASKILL: OK. You know, I don't know what else I can do. I don't know what else I can do. If you -- if you want me to go home...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, in New Hampshire, the audience was polite while the president made his pitch but not necessarily sold.
Our Jim Acosta is live in Portsmouth, New Hampshire this morning.
And as we've talked about this make-or-break month on this August recess for health care reform -- and it's clear the president does have an uphill battle, but that crowd certainly keeping things much more civil than we've seen in some of the other town halls.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That is definitely the case, Kiran. And that might have something to do with when you're under the watchful eye of the Secret Service going into a town hall meeting and have to ask for tickets in advance, that might keep things under control a little bit more versus some of these congressional town halls where just about anybody can walk in off the street, two different ways of setting up these town halls.
But this is becoming crystal clear as to why Democrats wanted to get health care reform done before the August recess. The longer this debate goes on, the harder the sell becomes. And even president is being forced to confront some of the more outrageous claims coming from reform opponents.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA (voice-over): The debate over health care reform has come to this. A little girl holding a sign that says, "Obama lies, grandma dies."
(on camera): What does that mean?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What that means is with new health care, they won't be taking care of the elderly and older people probably as well as they do now with private insurance.
(CROWD CHANTING)
ACOSTA (voice-over): It's a reference to the false claim made by some reform opponents that Democratic health care plans would create a bureaucratic death panel to decide end-of-life issues for the elderly and disabled. The president confronted the rumor.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The rumor that's been circulating a lot lately is this idea that somehow the House of representatives voted for death panels that will basically pull the plug on grandma because we've decided that we don't -- it's too expensive to let her live anymore. I am not in favor of that.
ACOSTA: As the president tried to turn down the heat inside the town hall...
OBAMA: Let's disagree over things that are real, not these wild misrepresentations that bear no resemblance to anything that's actually been proposed.
(CROWD CHANTING)
ACOSTA: ... tempers flared outside the event.
Police kept supporters and opponents of reform on opposite sides of the street.
MICHAEL REIDY, MASSACHUSETTS UNION MEMBER: We want to make sure the right wing doesn't distort the truth and that everybody's well aware of everything that's going on in this bill.
JOEY DAUBEN, LOCAL BUSINESS OWNER: If this government health care program goes through, then my small business will suffer even more.
ACOSTA: One protestor actually brought his handgun to the event. Because he had a permit for the gun, police allowed him to stay.
(on camera): Are you going to keep that holstered when the president comes by?
WILLIAM KOSTRIC, PROTESTER: Of course.
(LAUGHTER)
KOSTRIC: I like my life.
ACOSTA (voice-over): With these August town halls turning into summer carnivals for Democrats, the question for the White House is whether these events are changing any minds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good afternoon, Mr. President.
ACOSTA: William Anderson asked the president whether the reform plans would set limits on more expensive prescription drugs. He wasn't convinced.
WILLIAM ANDERSON, TOWN HALL AUDIENCE MEMBER: Saying one is one thing, and doing the right thing is something else.
ACOSTA (on camera): And the president has not sold you yet?
ANDERSON: Not yet, no.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: The president will take two more swings at a town hall meeting later this week with events scheduled in Montana and Colorado -- and just like New Hampshire, those were presidential battlegrounds during the election last fall. Now, they are on the front lines of the great health care debate of 2009.
CHETRY: They are. All right. Jim Acosta for us this morning -- thanks.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Here's a whole new take on the town hall. The CNN Express hit the road to see how real Americans feel about the health care debate. But so many people wanted their voices heard that our Ali Velshi stopped the bus and let it happen, and our own impromptu town hall sprung up right there in the street.
Look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: We're in Paducah, Kentucky. We are hearing different things from people wherever we're going. But I haven't found too many people around here who are opposed to reforming health care.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm for the idea but I don't thing that Congress and the president has done a good job of disseminating information. I'm just sharing a lot (INAUDIBLE).
VELSHI: What about you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think, right now, we have a lack of choice. I mean, health care is expensive. I mean, the average cost of the coverage I found more often than not are more expensive than the actual care. I would think any choice -- any viable choice would be better than what we've got now.
VELSHI: What do you think?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My understanding, there is about 48 million people that's not covered. Those people need to be covered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, my husband and I are two of the 47 million-plus that don't have health care. And I'm not talking insurance. Of course, we don't have insurance, but I want health care. My husband has diabetes and he just had a bout with cancer.
What insurance company's going to cover us? There aren't any. If I get sick today, where do you think I'm going? I'm going to the emergency room. Who's that costing? That's costing us, the taxpayers. So, if it's going to cost my bottom line, if they have to tax me more in order to get health care -- tax me. Tax me, tax me, tax me, I am willing to pay.
VELSHI: Let's talk about the 46 million, 47 million, 50 million -- whatever million you want to use -- number of people who are not insured in this country. What's your thought on that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would really love to drive a Hummer. They're cool cars. I can't afford one. So, I don't drive one. I drive what I can afford.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God. I can't believe you're saying that people don't deserve health care if they can't afford it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where did I say that, Heather?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's what I hear you say.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then you're not listening, Heather. I say...
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: You did say that you'd like to buy a Hummer and you can't buy a Hummer because you can't afford it. So, you're saying, if you can't afford the health -- you can't afford the Hummer, you don't drive it, if you can't afford the health care, you shouldn't get it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No -- no, no, no. I'm saying, you have the basic stuff. You get a catastrophic illness. You're in a car crash, an accident, something like that happens -- of course, you get coverage for that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: John and Kiran, we're on Broadway and Main Street in Paducah, Kentucky, just across the Ohio River from Illinois. We pulled the bus up and this conversation started within minutes of us getting here. There is a little gazebo next to us. The restaurant across the road agreed to bring us some chairs. We sat down and we just had this conversation.
You can see a lot more of it on CNNMoney.com. It was a very enlightened discussion. And as you've been covering, it's a lot more civil than a lot of the discussion that's been going on in the town halls.
This is the sort of feedback we're getting from people. They want more information, they want more civil debate. They're concerned about the quality of their health care, the cost of it and whether or not options will be taken away from them.
That's the theme that we've got going. It is day three now of this trip. We're heading out of Kentucky, into southern Illinois, and probably, into Missouri by the end of the day -- John?
ROBERTS: I've always said, any time Ali Velshi shows up, it just sparks a conversation. What's the next stop there for the CNN Express?
VELSHI: We'll hit a few places before we get to St. Louis. We'll get to St. Louis probably about midday. And then we'll cross over into Missouri. We'll get to east St. Louis and we'll cross over into Missouri, and head further west into Missouri.
ROBERTS: OK. Then you're ending all of this, what, in Iowa on the weekend?
VELSHI: That's right. By Friday night, we'll get to Des Moines. We'll be at the Iowa state fair all day on Saturday.
ROBERTS: All right.
VELSHI: We'll be eating well.
ROBERTS: Yes. But don't eat any of those funnel cakes because they aren't the healthiest of things. And we know you got good health care, Ali, but we want you to stay healthy. All right.
VELSHI: There you go.
ROBERTS: Ali Velshi on the road in Paducah, Kentucky, this morning.
What do you think of the health care reform debate? Let us know. Leave a comment on our show blog at CNN.com/amFIX or call the show hotline at 1-877-MY-AMFIX.
CHETRY: All right. Still ahead, we're going to be speaking with Congressman David Scott. He's a Democrat out of Georgia. Someone spray-painted a swastika on the sign outside of his office. There's a look at it right now. Police are investigating. It all happened after another contentious debate about health care.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the ""Most News in the Morning"."
You saw it here on AMERICAN MORNING, a Georgia congressman in a heated back-and-forth over health care reform, then he finds a swastika painted on the sign outside his office in Atlanta. Congressman David Scott says he believes it happened because of the health care debate. He joins us live from Atlanta this morning to talk more about this.
Thanks for being with us, Congressman. First of all...
REP. DAVID SCOTT (D), GEORGIA: Thank you for having me.
CHETRY: ... I'm sure it was a very disturbing sight. When did you first see it and when was your reaction?
SCOTT: Well, I saw it when I got to my office, my staff woke me up in the morning and said what was on there and then as soon as I got to the office I saw it, I was just simply appalled. This symbol represents the most heinous period in world history, indicative of man's greatest inhumanity to man, where nearly 6 million Jewish people and others were murdered purposely by Adolf Hitler.
So, when you reach that point to go -- and this is how this individual wanted to express their concern about this health care debate, this is very, very dangerous. And it's part of others, things we receive in the mail, like, for example, this which depicts President Obama as a clown with the swastika on his forehead, death to Marxist, foreign and domestic, meaning some of the concerns of birth (INAUDIBLE), it says "to nigger David Scott, you were, you are and will forever be a nigger. An Ethiopian cannot make himself white."
I mean, this is just outrageous. It has no place in this debate. We need to bring to the American people and explain to them what the public option means without the tension. Because that is the trigger -- that is the mechanism that does the two most essential things we must do, bring down the costs of health care while at the same time expand it so we can provide health care coverage for others.
We need to take time...
CHETRY: Well, Congressman, hold on. You said a lot of things there so I want to get to -- first of all, in your years serving the community, in your years, you know, being in public office, have you ever received anything like that before? Is this a ratcheting up of people's emotions?
SCOTT: It obviously is. And no, I have not. I have excellent, excellent relationships.
I happen to represent the kind of district that is very, very diverse. This happened in Cobb County and Smyrna. I love Smyrna and Cobb County. I've served them well. It doesn't speak for them. And it just speaks to this one individual as this other information does.
But we cannot dismiss this casually. There is bubbling up under this debate, unfortunately, the overtones that this presents of hate, of racism, of all of these things. But we must have to resolve that hate, racism. This swastika cannot be the arbiter of this debate.
CHETRY: You know, it really is mind-boggling. We take a look, you know, the night of President Obama's election. And regardless of where you stood, you know, ideologically speaking, regardless of where you were on the political spectrum, there was a lot of, I think, optimism about where we were heading as a country.
Now, we fast forward, you know, through these 200-plus days. And -- what is it about this health care debate that seems to have brought out the worst in so many people as we're discussing what everybody wants, which is -- which is to figure out solutions to our collective problems?
SCOTT: Well, first of all, I think that -- and this -- my situation in all of this has been a realization that it has become politicized. From the very beginning, when Rush Limbaugh says, "Well, we don't want him to succeed. We don't want President Obama to succeed. I want him to fail."
Well, Obama -- I mean, Rush Limbaugh has an extraordinary audience, and many of them feel very strongly and are influenced by him. They have Senator DeMint saying, "Well, we got his waterloo on this health care, we can kill him and defeat him." Well, there are people out there that want to defeat, don't want to see the president succeed.
We should encourage -- we should be encouraged that here's a president that is willing to tackle the most difficult issue we are facing and we should give him a chance to do that.
But I think the tone has been set there. So, you find people who will come in and hijack these meetings for the purpose of expressing that. That's not everyone.
CHETRY: Speaking of that -- I know -- I know what you're saying. Speaking of that, there was a heated exchange that happened at a meeting that you were speaking at. It wasn't even a meeting on health care. But let's just play a little bit of what went down there.
SCOTT: All right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT: Don't come and take advantage of what these individuals have done! You want a meeting with me on health care? I'll give it to you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: That was after a doctor by the name of Brian Hill asked you a health care-related question.
(CROSSTALK)
SCOTT: I want to ask you this. First of all, the young lady that brought that tape, they weren't even there to cover that WXIA. And since that time, they have recognized that that tape was taken out of context and they did that. I love the people at WXIA, but they weren't there and that tape was done and edited and put up.
What the audience didn't know was, my reference when I said, "But don't come in here and take advantage of what these individuals put together," there's an African-American community in Douglasville basically that has a six-lane road coming through it. They worked six months to put this together, their homes, their businesses, 68 of them were demolished.
The African-American community and Hispanic community were very concerned that they might be disenfranchised so they put this meeting together. It was about that.
They -- the doctors and everybody else bombarded that meeting and wanted to change it to make it what they wanted to be. So, I had had to stand up and defend my constituents in Douglasville that worked to put that meeting together.
CHETRY: So, what happen since then? When you spoke with the doctor -- I mean, did you guys arrange a meeting together? Because you said, if you want to be or you want to have a town hall about health care, we can do that. It's not a good time. So what happen?
SCOTT: We're going to have that. Exactly. We're going to have it this Saturday at Mundy's Mill High School in Clayton County in my district.
CHETRY: Do you think it's going to be civil?
SCOTT: I hope it will. I think it will. And my pleasure to -- because, look, I'm in the middle of this. I am very much in the middle of being a part of the glue that brings these divergent changes together. I'm the only member of the Congress that's a member of the blue dog coalition, the Congressional Black Caucus and the New Dems. I cover the water front.
So, I'm in that position and that's what I want to do. I just want to take the time here, if I may, because the health care debate is so important. That we have to take time -- and I want to take time -- to be able to communicate with the American people and put the right story out about this is not a "death panel," this is not a bill that has abortion. The Hyde amendment has outlawed federal funds to be used for that.
The people need to know that. They need to know the public option is there for people who don't have insurance, and to act as a mechanism to offer competition to the other insurance companies and make sure we can bring the prices down. We're not going to be able to do that with them.
So this is a very technical -- this is a technical, it's a complex issue. But there are issues out there that are being blown out of proportion, and so I want to spend my time doing that. We'll do it in the health care and answer all of the questions.
CHETRY: Right. Well, perhaps one of the good things that comes out of all of this is that people are better informed, and hopefully, will be better informed about the process and about what ultimately happened. Meantime, we're sorry about the situation that happened outside your office. And we understand that the FBI is now investigating along with the Smyrna police and the capitol police at the same time about who put that swastika out there.
Congressman David Scott, thanks for joining us this morning.
SCOTT: My pleasure. And thank you very much for having me.
ROBERTS: Three Americans still being detained in Iran after they inadvertently -- according to sources -- crossed over the border from Iraq where they were hiking. How to get them out? Will it be Bill Clinton to the rescue again? Robin Wright, who knows the area quite well, and in fact, actually walked the same territory that those hikers were on, joins us in a few minutes to talk about all of that.
It's 19 1/2 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the ""Most News in the Morning"."
Right now, an American soldier is under arrest, accused of being a contract killer for a Mexican drug cartel.
Eighteen-year-old Army Private Michael Jackson Apodaca one of three men charged with murdering a mid-level cartel member who was also a DEA informant.
CNN's Ed Lavandera is following the story. He is live in Dallas for us.
And this would appear, Ed, on the surface at least, to be an escalation of the drug war because this hit took place in El Paso, on the American side of the border.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Not only that, and when you have a member of, someone on the U.S. side in any kind of uniform, whether it be military or police or a federal agent, that also seems to escalate to seriousness of this as well. And it really highlights a growing concern that the reach and influence of the Mexican drug cartels continues to grow.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Eighteen -year-old Michael Jackson Apodaca still wearing his military uniform in handcuffs and charged with capital murder. El Paso police say Apodaca fired the shot that killed this man three months ago outside his home in an upscale El Paso neighborhood. The shooting victim was a mid-level member of the Juarez drug cartel, but also, an informant for American federal agents.
CHIEF GREGORY ALLEN, EL PASO POLICE: What we do feel is that this was retribution for the fact that the death -- the deceased person had pretty much gotten the person in trouble in Juarez, who was arrested by federal authorities over there. And so, consequentially, this was the retribution for that arrest.
LAVANDERA: According to Court documents, Apodaca was hired to carry out this hit and paid by Ruben Rodriguez Dorado, a member of the Juarez cartel. Court documents say Dorado ordered the murder because the Juarez cartel discovered the victim was talking to American authorities.
ALLEN: And I want to stress that this was a pay-back situation and not something that is an ongoing type of battle like you see in Mexico right now. So, a whole lot different. And even though this can be considered to some degrees spillover, we don't look at it in the same way as it's occurring in Mexico.
LAVANDERA: According to officials at Fort Bliss in El Paso, Michael Apodaca joined the army about a year ago. He worked as a crew member that launches Patriot missiles. But his family says they don't believe the charges against him.
DAVE JACKSON, APODACA'S GRANDFATHER: He was in the top of his class. He talked to all his sergeants. He's a good -- he's a good soldier. Before he went in, he was in with the -- a bad crowd.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA: And, John, you really hear authorities in El Paso stressing that they believe that this is an isolated incident, clearly someone who was targeted for a specific reason and they want people to feel that they're still safe on the El Paso side despite on the other side of the border where it has been so bloody and so deadly for several years now.
ROBERTS: It's got to be troubling for local authorities though, Ed. If the drug cartels could recruit one person from inside the ranks of the U.S. military, have they recruited more?
LAVANDERA: You know, we have seen -- in various parts along the border, I've seen over the last year or so, anecdotally, several cases where you have different levels and different types of authorities, whether it be federal agents or local police officials, where you have seen what seems to be an uptick in the number of cases involving American authorities.
So, clearly, we know that there are a great deal of people who are concerned by this and they're involved in all sorts of different things. And it's not just carrying out the deadly cartel hit like this particular case was. But there's a lot of people, or growing number of people perhaps it's concerned (ph), involved in turning a blind eye when drugs are moved across the border or helping others, you know, some of these smuggling -- human smuggling operations.
ROBERTS: Yes.
LAVANDERA: So, this is a vast criminal enterprise involved in very many different things.
ROBERTS: And definitely, some troubling new developments.
Ed Lavandera for us this morning in Dallas -- Ed, thanks so much for that.
LAVANDERA: You got it.
CHETRY: All right. When we talked about some of the town hall meetings and how some of them have sort of degenerated into shouting matches. And, in fact, people had to be removed by security in some of these.
Well, at Arlen Specter's town hall that he held in Lebanon, Pennsylvania, there was a stay-at-home mom said she's never involved in politics before but she had a burning question to ask him -- why? We're going to hear what she asked. And she also will join us to talk a little bit more about why she felt so strongly about this health care debate.
ROBERTS: We're also going to check in with a Middle East expert Robin Wright about the fate of those American hikers being detained in Iran. What will it take to free them? We'll find out.
Twenty-six and a half minutes now after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Twenty-eight minutes past the hour right now.
We'll check our top stories.
Early this morning, marines launched a helicopter assault on the Taliban before dawn, trying to take back a key area in southern Afghanistan before next week's presidential vote there. A reporter embedded with the first wave says that they were met with mortar rounds as well as rocket-propelled grenades. The marines say they've captured several suspects and have found more than 60 pounds of opium.
ROBERTS: Costa Rica's president says he is sick with swine flu. Sixty-nine-year-old Oscar Arias is under quarantine at home with a fever and a sore throat. The H1N1 virus is still a problem in the Costa Rican capital of San Jose. The Costa Rican leader also says he suffers from asthma and therefore, the virus could pose a high risk for him.
CHETRY: Aspirin may be a wonder drug for people who have been diagnosed with colon cancer. A new study finding patients who took aspirin regularly reduced their risk of death from colon cancer by as much as 30 percent. Researchers say aspirin blocks production of a certain enzyme preventing the cancer from spreading. Aspirin is already recommended for helping to prevent heart attacks and strokes.
ROBERTS: It's been nearly two weeks since three young Americans were hiking in Iraq and ended up crossing the border into Iran. After a quick phone call to a friend saying they were surrounded by Iranian troops, little was heard about them until Sunday. That's when the United States received official word that they are being detained in Iran. So, it's got a lot of people asking the question: Will Bill Clinton be coming to the rescue again?
Joining me now in Washington is Robin Wright. She is the author of "Dreams and Shadows." And she's former diplomatic correspondent for "The Washington Post."
Robin, you're very familiar with the territory those hikers went missing in. In fact, you hiked an old smugglers' route between Iran and the town of Sulaymaniya up there in Kurdistan. Describe for us what the area is like and what about the border? Is it easy to tell where you are? Is it well-marked or are there no markings?
ROBIN WRIGHT, AUTHOR, "DREAMS AND SHADOWS": There's very little markings. I actually flew to Kermanshah in Iran, took a taxi across the border -- to the border. And I -- there was a little shed. And I signed a ledger saying that I was leaving Iran, going into Iraq, then I walked across just some open territory.
It could have been a park. It could have been any place. There were no markings, nothing on the other side.
I think it could be very difficult to tell some of the border markings, and as a result, these kids got caught.
ROBERTS: Just for folks at home, we're showing a map there where There will Silimani (ph) was, and the Ahmed Awah, which is the area where these three people were hiking in, inadvertently crossed the border, were surrounded by Iranian troops and then were detained.
Do you think, Robin, that the Iranians are looking at last week's situation with Laura Ling and Euna Lee and Bill Clinton coming to take them away and saying, what can we do to get some of that?
WRIGHT: Oh, absolutely. I suspect they were monitoring everything that happened because the cases are almost identical, journalists or young people crossing the border and getting caught by security forces.
The very fact that all it took was the girls relaying the message that the North Korean government was prepared to release them if Bill Clinton came to Pyongyang will be heard loud and clear in Tehran.
And this comes at a very interesting juncture politically for Iran. It's looking for international acceptance for its leadership after a disputed election that's not recognized by millions of its own people.
And the idea that Bill Clinton after 30 years of tensions with the United States might go to Tehran and on behalf of these yuck people would certainly be appealing.
I think, though, for the moment the United States is looking primarily and trying to reach out through other channels to see if there is -- it's possible to use pressure on Tehran to get these people out.
ROBERTS: John Bolton, the former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations in the Bush administration voiced some concerns about Bill Clinton's trip to Pyongyang, saying this could be a slippery slope, that he becomes the world's firefighter and he runs around to all of these hotspots freeing people.
Do you think there is a danger that that could happen here? Could the Iranian leadership say, yes, we'll give them back, but we do want Bill Clinton to come here?
WRIGHT: Oh, I think it's quite possible.
What's interesting is what's happened over the last few days with the United States turning to the Iraqis, who have a very good relationship with Iran, to try to pressure them to release these people.
And I think that there's probably a lot of secret diplomacy going on, or quiet diplomacy, with a lot of other allies. Turkey, which borders Iran, which is a member of NATO, a close U.S. ally, but has an Islamic party which is in power today. Sweden, Italy, which has strong trade relations. Germany. Some of the Europeans. Japan, which buys a lot of Iranian oil, that there are a lot of other channels that the United States will try first.
I don't expect anything to happen quickly, however.
ROBERTS: I mean the Swedes helped out with the release of Laura Ling and Euna Lee so maybe they are involved here. The Swiss are the official go-betweens, correct, between the United States and Iran?
WRIGHT: Yes.
ROBERTS: Iraqi foreign minister Hoshyer Zebari came out in support of the hikers, saying it is all a mistake. We know that he has very good relations with Iran. Might he somehow get involved in this? Could he alone do this, or do you think it is going to take American involvement?
WRIGHT: I think the Iraqis will try very hard. Zebari is a Kurd, and the Kurds, particularly from that side of Iraq, have very strong relations with the Iranians because of the 12 years they relied on Iran as one of the routes during the period that the Kurds were under sanctions by Saddam Hussein, and Iran was the way out whether it was trade or just for them to travel internationally.
So that's clearly the strongest possibility for the United States.
But there are also other alternatives besides Bill Clinton. We have a lot of well known travelers, whether it is Bill Richardson, the governor of New Mexico, Jesse Jackson. There have been others who have engaged in the past, and that's also a possibility I suspect.
ROBERTS: I was in Baghdad a couple years back interviewing Hoshyer Zebari. And I was waiting for him to come out of a meeting, and he came out with the Iranian ambassador. And the two of them looked like they were getting on quite well. So we'll see if that holds some sway.
Robin Wright, it's always great to talk to you. Thanks for stopping by this morning. We'll keep watching this story.
WRIGHT: Thank you.
CHETRY: She's 35 years old, she's a stay-at-home mom. She says she's never been involved in politics, but something drove her to come out to a town hall meeting in Pennsylvania and to try to make her voice be heard.
We'll hear from Katy Abram coming up. It's 35 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the "Most News in the Morning".
"Minding your Business" now. If you have plastic from Am Ex or Discover in your wallet and you're over your limit, you don't have to worry about a penalty anymore? That's right. Both companies are announcing they'll soon end the charges that for many people have added insult to injury already in the red.
ROBERTS: Are mcmansions going the way of the McRib sandwich? The Census Bureau says the size of newly built homes in the United States fell in 2008 for the first time in 15 years. New homes are now 7 percent smaller. That's the size of an average-sized room.
Experts say new homes are shrinking for a number of reasons -- affordability, energy costs, aging baby boomers who don't need all of that space to ramble around in, and a tight market for big mortgages.
CHETRY: Also, a new study points to the real power of money, Chinese researchers finding that counting money, meaning just handling the bills, made people feel stronger. They say that money can act as a substitute for social acceptance, reducing social discomfort and, by extension, physical discomfort or even pain.
You thought people were crazy when they rolled around in the bed in money.
ROBERTS: There you go.
CHETRY: I guess it helps with the pain.
ROBERTS: It does.
We've been watching these town hall meetings for the last couple of weeks. We've seen fights, arguments, angry protestors holding signs.
But we're trying to cut through the noise and we're trying to bring you the real deal here when it comes to what people's concerns are in terms of health care reform and where this all might be going.
CHETRY: Yes. Are we talking to Carol now?
ROBERTS: No, we're talking to Katy.
CHETRY: All right.
Well, Carol was doing some fact checking for us. But we also had a chance to talk to Katy Abram. She's a 35-year-old stay-at-home mom. She lives outside of Pittsburgh. And she went to the -- she actually lives outside of Philadelphia.
She went to the Arlen Specter town hall meeting. She wanted to make her voice be heard. Let's listen to what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Did you know at the time when you showed up to ask that question that that was going to be the response from people in the crowd?
KATY ABRAM, STAY-AT-HOME MOM: No. I didn't even know that was the question I was going to ask, to be honest with you.
CHETRY: You talk about this. You said that you're a conservative and a Republican, but you're not somebody who's really ever into politics, the day-to-day politicking out there. What made you change your mind when you told the senator that you've awakened a sleeping giant? How did that happen?
ABRAM: You know, over the past couple months I've seen on the news how they were doing the TARP package and trying to bail out banks and auto companies. And I saw a lot of really reckless things.
And next thing I see is this health care reform that they're bringing through, or the nationalized health care. That really was the nail in the coffin for me, I guess you could say. That woke me up.
CHETRY: And what is your health care situation right now? I mean just to give some perspective. We said that you're a stay-at- home mom. How many kids do you have, are you covered, are they covered?
ABRAM: Yes. My children, I have a seven-year-old daughter named Madelyn -- hi, Maddie -- a little four-year-old named Sam -- hi, Sam -- they'll love that. And we have a health savings account. We're self-employed. And so we pay for our own health care insurance.
We have a high deductible. We pay out towards our insurance every month. And typically every year we are paying for our own health care, doctor's visits and everything ourselves.
CHETRY: Do you think it could be better? You think health care in general in this country could be improved?
ABRAM: Absolutely. I'm not -- I don't know everything about health care. I know that it's not a perfect system.
But I don't necessarily believe that having the government in control of it is the solution. I mean I've never seen them do anything that that's worked, to be honest with you. So the last thing I want them to have control of is my health care.
CHETRY: You said to Arlen Specter as well, "What are you going to do to restore this country back to what our founders created according to the constitution?" What were you trying to get at with him there? What did you mean by that?
ABRAM: What I meant by that is when -- from the little bit that I've read, I'm not -- was never a history major. This is, like I said, new to me.
I've been reading about the founders, I've been reading the constitution. And the founders did not look to the government as being the solution for the problems in this country. It doesn't say in the constitution "Give out free health care to people. Bail out the auto companies. Do all these things."
The people of this country can be self-sufficient and take care of ourselves. I'm just looking for the government to get the heck out of my way.
CHETRY: And were you happy with the response that you got from Arlen Specter?
ABRAM: Um -- you know, honestly, I think the true response will be what happens when this bill is brought over to the Senate. My understanding is it's in Congress right now, and so it hasn't necessarily crossed the line over into the Senate. So the proof is in the pudding. We'll see what he does.
(END VIDEOTAPE) ROBERTS: Obviously there is a lot of passions involved in all of this. Hers was just one case, but there are a lot of other people too who are working with what seems to be misinformation.
There are so many things out there -- Sarah Palin talking about death panels. That's not in the legislation anywhere. There are people who are saying that these will fund abortion. That's not in the legislation either.
So separating fact from fiction, it's pretty hard when it comes to these bills, particularly since everything is so fluid as well. There's nothing, as you were saying earlier, that's cast in stone yet.
CHETRY: Right. There's no actual bill that's going to be voted upon yet.
Carol Costello, though, is going to break down some of the biggest myths that are out there, what's true and what's not when it comes to what they're talking about at all when it comes to health care reform.
It's 44 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Now we're going to check in with Carol.
As the health care debate rages on, literally, we're going to take a closer look at what all the shouting is about.
ROBERTS: Yes. We're trying to filter out all the static for you. Are the angry talking points even true? Well, many of them aren't.
Carol Costello is in Washington this morning. She's tackling the big one, separating fact from fiction. And Carol, when it comes to this issue, that's such an extraordinarily important thing to do.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is. And you hear these rumors, and they're so extreme that they stick in your mind, so it is very hard to like, tell people, no, this isn't true.
The number one thing to keep in mind before we dive into this -- there is no -- repeat -- no health care reform bill ready to be voted on by both House and Senate. A key House committee did pass a bill, that's that 1,000-page bill you hear about but that is not a final bill either. It is likely to change.
That's why lawmakers are holding these town hall meetings that aren't exactly answering questions.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't trust anyone (ph).
COSTELLO: If you are looking for answers about health care reform, good luck.
Politics, misinformation, noise is about all you seem to hear. Time to quiet the noise and bust the myths -- or not.
Let's start with this. Death panels -- true or false? As Sarah Palin put it, seniors and even babies with disabilities "will have to stand in front of Obama's death panel so his bureaucrats can decide whether they are worthy of health care."
BILL ADAIR, POLITIFACT.COM: That one is so wrong it has gotten a pants on fire on our truth-o-meter.
COSTELLO: Phil Adair who runs politifact.com says false. Palin's allegation arose out of an idea to allow for Medicare to pay for counseling for people who want advice about end of life are.
OBAMA: If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.
COSTELLO: True or false? In theory, these things are true. but there are valid concerns.
ADAIR: Given that this is going to dramatically change the marketplace of health insurance, we don't know if any given health insurance will be offered the same way in a few years.
COSTELLO: Rationing -- true or false?
Arguably, private health insurance plans ration. They decide what is covered and what's not.
Politifact.com says there is nothing in the House bill that specially addresses rationing. But it is logical to assume that someone has to decide what and how much is covered.
ARTHUR LAFFER, CONSERVATIVE ECONOMIST: If you like the post office and the department of motor vehicles and you think they're run well, just wait until you see Medicare, Medicaid, and health care run by the government.
COSTELLO: But government can't run big programs, true or false? Critics have gone as far as drawing up a diagram of how dysfunctional the government health care plan will be, even though no such diagram actually exists.
ADAIR: If the government can run Medicare what's to say it couldn't run this kind of a program?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: It's just something to consider on the subject of abortion. According to politicheck.com, no federal fund, no federal taxpayer money will pay for abortions.
On the subject of how to pay for health care reform, now that is the big unknown. There are real fears increased taxes will spread to the middle class. Will they? The president says no, but there are plenty of others who say he has no choice. And that's pretty much why we're talking about this so heatedly right now, John and Kiran.
ROBERTS: It's interesting to point out, too, Carol, that back during the Bush administration an agency at the Department of Health and Human Services recommended so-called advanced care planning, which is sort of an end of life planning, and nobody was talking about death panels back then.
They didn't recommend that the government pay for that, so that's the difference with the bill. But it just goes to show you that the context that you put this stuff in inflames the passion.
COSTELLO: And by the way, that idea about counseling came from a Republican lawmaker, which is just interesting since conservatives are the ones complaining about this.
I did ask people to look on our blog, CNN.com/amfix. And I provided -- actually, Slate.com had a great list of places you can go to check out information.
And these are a couple of the comments I got from our viewers this morning. This from Bill, he says "Costello's whole segment is what's false. It was obviously another pro-Obama force-the-plan down people's throat."
And Bill, I certainly didn't mean it. I want you to go to other sources to check on information. Go to all the sources that you can, because that's the only way that you'll figure out what's true and what's not true.
And I just want to read this one from George. He said "I do not have health care and I have type 1 diabetes. The cost each month for insulin, testing supplies, exceeds $1,000, including doctor appointments. If it not for a local benefit program I would be bankrupt."
He says we should be talking more to the people that don't have health insurance to see how they feel and think.
ROBERTS: I guess the bottom line here, Carol, is whether you agree with this or not, arm yourself with the facts as opposed to fallacy and fiction, which is what a lot of people have armed themselves with here.
CHETRY: What's happening here also is it's really hard to get the facts, because, as you said before, there is really nothing -- there are some bills out there, there are some versions, but nothing that is absolutely going to be voted on right now.
COSTELLO: And frankly, it's easier to believe things in black and white. It is a lot easier to wade through the gray areas and to try to really understand what's going on out there. You know, you come up with these rumors, and it is easy to go, yes, and it sticks in your mind. And that's what you end up believing.
ROBERTS: Carol Costello for us this morning. Important work you did this morning, Carol. Thanks so much for that.
CHETRY: And we're going to take a quick break. When we come back we'll show you some amazing pictures from the Perseid meteor shower. Rob also join us with more on extreme weather -- lights up the night there, beautiful.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: There you go, pretty shot this morning of the buildings, the trees in Central Park. You can see the ball field, the water. It's 78 degrees. It is going to be mostly cloudy today. There some scattered thunderstorms, only went up to a high of 79. But, hey, it's the middle of August. What do you expect?
(WEATHER BREAK)
CHETRY: I was just going to say we asked people about this Pew Research study about the battle of the bands, the top 20 acts. A lot of people writing in saying Pink Floyd, that that was not good at all. The police was left off the list.
ROB MARCIANO, METEOROLOGIST: A lot were left off. But you can't satisfy everybody.
CHETRY: But there's only 20 slots. Dave Matthews Band, Van Halen, a few others.
ROBERTS: Don't forget, every Friday Rob leaves the office early, hits the road for something new we're calling "Rob's Road Show." Last week he hit up the world's biggest yard sale in Tennessee. This Friday rob is shipping off to Orlando for a massive yo-yo contest? We'll bring it to you live.
If have an idea for Rob's next trip, shoot us an e-mail. If you have some obscure little event in the middle of nowhere, make sure that you give that to us.
Two minutes now to the top of the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Continuing the conversation on today's stories. Go to our blog at CNN.com/amfix.
That's going to do it for us. Thanks so much for joining us.
CHETRY: Hope to see you back here tomorrow.
Meantime, the news continues, "CNN Newsroom" with Heidi Collins.
