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Nancy Grace
Attorney Says Tooth Remedy Caused High Alcohol in Wrong-Way Mom; Attorney Blames Tooth Meds for Mother`s Drunkenness; Developments in the Michael Jackson`s Death Case; Disabled Boy Vanishes
Aired August 13, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. A young mother with five little children in a minivan barreled down the wrong way on a packed interstate, slamming into another vehicle. Tally, eight dead, one child clinging onto life. Tragedy, yes. Accident, no! Toxicology reports Mommy high on booze and pot.
Bombshell tonight. First, Daddy claims drunk Mommy had a stroke, an abscessed tooth, pregnancy-related diabetes -- P.S., she`s not pregnant -- and finally, a mystery and lump in her leg moving toward her brain. Why -- why don`t they just stop?
Tonight, Daddy says it wasn`t the liquor in her stomach, it was the Anbesol on her tooth. Yes, the new defense to possible criminal and civil charges, Mommy used Anbesol. That`s right, the over-the-counter toothache gel. They say that made her plow into another car, killing eight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news in the case of the tragedy on the Taconic. "The New York Post" reports the attorney representing the family of Diane Schuler says Schuler was taking the drug Anbesol for a toothache and that`s what caused her blood alcohol level to be more than twice the legal limit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An autopsy was performed on the body of Diane Schuler, the operator of the 2003 Ford van who was responsible for this crash. The toxicology from that autopsy shows that Diane Schuler had a blood alcohol content of. 19 percent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I go to bed every night knowing. My heart is clear. She did not drink. She is not an alcoholic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In addition, the autopsy revealed that Diane Schuler had approximately six grams of alcohol in her stomach, alcohol that had yet to be metabolized.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not saying that test is wrong here, but something had to happen. This is not a woman who would jeopardize five children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Toxicology also reveals that Diane Schuler had a high level of THC, tetrahydrocannibinol, in her blood. THC is the active ingredient contained in marijuana.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something happened to her brain. That doesn`t give me an answer, does not give me an answer for the alcohol in her stomach or the marijuana allegedly there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In conjunction with the collision reconstruction unit`s detailed examination of the Schulers` van, investigators recovered a broken 1.75 liter bottle of vodka.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is not an alcoholic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you believe the circumstances the way they are now described, you have to believe that a woman with five children in the car is smoking pot and drinking out of a bottle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And breaking news as the mystery surrounding the sudden death of music icon Michael Jackson intensifies. It is confirmed Jackson`s live- in doctor shoots Jackson up with propofol and then heads into another room to make private cell calls, Jackson left to die, according to sources.
And LAPD tonight stops the release of Jackson`s final autopsy report, as feds and Vegas police raid a Vegas pharmacy where Jackson`s private doctor obtained the powerful intravenous drug, police executing at least five search warrants on Jackson`s sleep-over doctor, Vegas and Houston.
Tonight, after 49 days and nights, Jackson`s body still kept on ice, no burial in sight. Why? And why have there been no charges lodged against these well-heeled doctors, pharmacies, suppliers, and the entourage that doped up a dope addict until he died in front of his own children. With blood allegedly on their hands, where -- where is Lady Justice?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Doctor Murray comes down the stairs in the stairwell that leads into the kitchen, and he`s screaming, Hurry, go get Prince, call security, get Prince. (INAUDIBLE) seem like he was in a panic state. Paris, she starts screaming, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More than a dozen cops, including federal drug agents, executed a search warrant this morning at a pharmacy in Las Vegas. It`s part of the follow-up to searches of the home and clinic of Dr. Conrad Murray.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... two served in Houston at the clinic and a storage shed, two in Las Vegas prior to this, and now this, the fifth, at a pharmacy not far from the clinic where Dr. Conrad Murray practiced in Las Vegas. This comes on the heels of the conclusion of the coroner`s report in L.A. here. They finished their report into the death investigation, but they have held it because LAPD has asked them to. The reason, they say the investigation continues.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... Captain Steve Ruda (ph) from the L.A. Fire Department, and he told me that Jackson was not breathing and had no pulse when paramedics arrived at the scene of his rented mansion. He said he was in, quote, "dire need of help."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s pumping. He`s pumping the chest, but he`s not responding to anything, sir. Please!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m told that Dr. Conrad Murray took responsibility at the scene. This fire captain told me he was in charge. He was calling the shots.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You cannot step out of a room giving a patient Diprivan. The patient will stop breathing and the patient will be dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live to Oakland and the search for a missing 5-year-old afflicted with cerebral palsy. The boy vanishes from the back seat of a car just outside a shoe store at a busy suburban shopping center. How could he just disappear and nobody sees a thing? Exclusive. As we go to air, we confirm the last person to see little Hassani before he disappears takes a polygraph. His foster dad with us live. Homicide investigators join K-9 tracker dogs, rescue teams and police, spreading out grid-style across the city of Oakland. Where is 5-year-old Hassani?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) responsible for this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After Lewis Ross (ph) parked behind the shoe store in Rockridge, he says he told 5-year-old Hassani Campbell to wait at the back door while he walked around to the front to tell Hassani`s aunt to unlock the door. Within a few minutes, the aunt, Jennifer Campbell, says she opened the door, but Hassani was gone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I thought maybe he was hiding behind something, or maybe he was choking, or maybe it was something -- or maybe he wandered around the front (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police searched for six hours, but they say there were no witnesses who could place Hassani behind the store other than Ross.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The spotlight is still on us. We have not spoken to the media up until this point not because we were shying or we`re in hiding. We were with police and FBI, giving them all the information. First day alone, we were with police for 17 hours straight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our worst fear is he`s gone somewhere and he`s lost, he`s frightened, he`s hurt himself. We want to try to find him before anything like that happens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for with being us. Everyone, very quickly, thank you for all of your calls, e-mail support for my first novel, a murder mystery thriller, "Eleventh Victim." It`s in the book stores. Part of my proceeds go to Wesley Glen Ministries, a charity that provides a loving home to the mentally handicapped.
And also, thank you to everybody to came out last night to help celebrate the release. A special thank you to my number one fans, my mother and father, my husband, David, my brother Mac (ph), sister-in-law Jan (ph), friends, guests of the show, our network presidents, Jim Walton (ph) and Ken Jouts (ph), my EP, Dean Sacoli (ph), and the whole staff.
And last night, a very special group of people came to the aid of my father immediately following the book party. Thank you to the NYFD, first responders, paramedics, security and the wonderful staff at the New York Cornell Medical Center. I`m grateful to report he is well and with us tonight. And breaking news: God does answer prayers. Thank you, friends. And to everyone, I hope you like the book.
And now, a young mother, five little children in a minivan, barrels down the wrong way on a packed interstate, slamming into another vehicle, eight dead, one child left hanging onto life. Tragedy, yes. Accident, no. Toxicology reports Mommy high on booze and pot. And tonight, another stunning twist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "The New York Post" reports the attorney representing the family of accused DUI mom Diane Schuler says Diane Schuler was taking Anbesol for a toothache and that`s what caused her blood alcohol level to be .19, over twice the legal limit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prior to getting into that car, she had numerous medical conditions. Problem (ph). One of them was an abscess which was almost two months old, which she would not go to the dentist for, no matter how much he begged her. She had diabetes of various levels. She also had a lump on her leg, and the lump on the leg, we`re not sure what it was, but it was moving. Did she have a stroke and then have alcohol?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Autopsy from the medical examiner was very specific. It looked for stroke, heart attack and dissecting aneurysm, and it was negative on all those counts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The attorney for the Schuler family told me that they are looking into TIA as a possible explanation. TIA is like a stroke in that it is an interruption of blood flow into the brain, but it does not cause permanent damage. It only lasts a few minutes. It can last at the most up to an hour. But it doesn`t leave any permanent damage, and therefore, it doesn`t show up in an autopsy. It also does not explain why there would be all kinds of alcohol and drugs in her blood, either.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m certainly not a doctor, but I don`t think that ethanol, alcohol, shows up in a TIA. You know, this problem is just a great example of women driving drunk and how increasing that is and driving with their kids in their car, like Diane Schuler did. It`s a form of child abuse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Sophia Hall, reporter with WCBS Newsradio 880. Sophia, thank you for being with us. Sophia, I`ve got it all -- Anbesol, over the counter -- you know, if this could make you have 10 shots` worth of vodka in your stomach, there`d be a lot of drunk babies in town, OK, because when the twins have teething problems, things like this or Orajel -- it`s a very common pain reliever, over the counter.
SOPHIA HALL, WCBS NEWSRADIO: It is over the counter. And like you said, a lot of people, toothache, put a couple drops on it, go about their day. However, the -- Diane Schuler`s family attorney, her husband`s family attorney -- he`s saying that`s exactly why she had a .19 blood alcohol level. That`s what the autopsy showed. However, the medical examiner says there`s a little bit of difference here. Anbesol has something called benzyl alcohol, and vodka has something called ethyl alcohol, two different things. The ethyl alcohol was in Diane Schuler`s system.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A rather bizarre and well-known incident on the Taconic Parkway which killed eight people, four of them children, was unique not by its uniqueness but how much it mirrors what`s going on in other lower-profile accidents that happen every day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... had a cup of coffee in the morning. We packed the cars up, like we always do, and we headed out. It was just like every other weekend or every weekend we go up there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The husband, Nancy, is in denial, and it`s understandable. (INAUDIBLE) if there was a condition of alcoholism, it`s something he just didn`t know about.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This isn`t denial, it`s repression. He`s actually acted as though he knows nothing about his wife. Were they living in separate homes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s hard to imagine that he would let his own children in that car if she`s impaired behind the wheel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Daniel Schuler`s presidents conference last week saying there wasn`t alcohol or marijuana, that it was Diane Schuler`s alleged medical conditions that caused this accident.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said a number of things through his attorney, as well, that maybe she had some stroke-like condition that didn`t show up in the initial autopsy, or he also suggested that perhaps she had a tooth abscess.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The autopsy from the medical examiner was very specific. It looked for stroke, heart attack and dissecting aneurysm, and it was negative on al those counts. And the only thing that would have put her out would have been a stroke. Didn`t happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight back to Sophia Hall, WCBS Newsradio reporter -- Newsradio 880. Sophia, right now, we know that the police are meeting with prosecutors. That doesn`t look good. The only person for them to be looking at logically is the husband. He was not in the car. So I`m assuming that their theory -- the theory they`re examining for possible criminal charges -- is that he knew she was drunk or high when he sent those kids off in the car.
HALL: And that`s exactly right. And not only are authorities, the police department, looking at that, but also CPS, Child Protective Services, because there is the miracle of this crash, the lone survivor, Brian Schuler, the 5-year-old son of both Diane and Daniel. And right now, it looks like he`s recovering and he possibly and most likely will go home and live with the father.
GRACE: Now to Aman Ali with "The Journal News." He went to the scene the day of the crash, just moments after it happened. Welcome, Aman. Thank you for being with us. Aman, why don`t they just shhh? Why do they keep talking? It seems to get worse and worse.
AMAN ALI, "THE JOURNAL NEWS": That`s true, Nancy. Irving Anolik -- he`s the attorney for the Bastardi family -- he said -- I talked to him earlier today and he said he`s taking anything that Dominic Barbara, the attorney for the Schuler family -- he`s taking anything that he says with a grain of salt. And he`s saying more and more -- these explanations are becoming more and more incredulous (SIC).
GRACE: It`s getting worse! Normally, the lawyer tells the client to clam up, but it seems to me that maybe the client needs to tell the lawyer to shut his piehole.
All right, let`s take a look at some of this lawyer`s other high- profile cases. There is, of course, Michael Lohan he represented when Lohan sued ex-wife for a stake in daughter Lindsay`s earnings. His client wanted his daughter`s money. Then he represented Joey Buttafuoco. Remember him? Let`s see a shot of Buttafuoco, Rosie. You remember the Long Island Lolita. Buttafuoco was her love object. Jessica Hahn -- everyone remembers Jessica Hahn. She was the televangelist`s secretary turned "Playboy" Playmate. Represented her in a rape case against Jim Bakker.
Then there was the kidney doctor. That was Richard Batista. The lawyer represented Batista suing his wife for $1.5 million or the kidney he gave her before their divorce.
Now, unleash the lawyers. Veteran defense attorney Renee Rockwell out of the Atlanta jurisdiction joining us in our Manhattan studios and John Burris, renowned defense attorney out of the San Francisco jurisdiction.
Burris, come on. Please. Help me out here. Why doesn`t he just zip it? Normally, it`s the lawyer telling the client to be quiet.
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think he`s trying to put forth a program to suggest that...
GRACE: I`m sorry. He`s trying to put forth what?
BURRIS: He`s trying to put forth a defense because he`s trying to keep...
GRACE: Oh!
BURRIS: ... his wife -- the husband from being prosecuted.
GRACE: OK...
BURRIS: And he`s trying to show that the husband did not have any knowledge about her having this alcohol problem. So therefore, he wants to suggest that the alcohol issues she had were not necessarily alcohol. He`s trying to demonstrate that there`s another reasonable explanation. It`s a tough...
GRACE: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
BURRIS: It`s a tough argument that he has to make.
GRACE: Renee, wouldn`t it be wise to save those explanations for trial instead of blowing them all out of the water by blurting them out to the press? Come on, a moving growth up your leg toward your brain? Anbesol over the counter? That made her have 10 shots worth of vodka in her tummy and evidence of pot?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, it`s hard to imagine how something you put on your tooth would just somehow get into your stomach.
GRACE: I mean, can this come into trial, all these zany theories the lawyer`s coming up with?
ROCKWELL: No, it`s not coming into trial. But I think what he most needs to be concerned with is a civil case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When they interviewed Daniel Schuler about his wife`s medical conditions, they also asked him, Did she do drugs recreationally? Did she drink at all? And what he told them (INAUDIBLE) she was a social drinker and she occasionally smoked pot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At the time of the crash, she had a blood alcohol of .19 and she also had six grams of undigested alcohol in her stomach.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s 1.5 ounces in a shot. There`s no doubt this woman was drinking from, you know, the minute she got in that car from McDonald`s until she crashed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The evidence clearly shows that she was highly intoxicated. Not only that, she was driving the wrong way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to the lines. Lori in Alabama. Hi, Lori.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just wanted to know -- they said that she was camping. Was the mother of the nieces with them while they were camping?
GRACE: Good question. Out to Rupa Mikkilineni, our producer on story. What about it, Rupa?
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right. The family was camping 90 miles north of where the crash site happened. And they were together, but it was just Daniel Schuler, Diane Schuler, her -- their two children and the three nieces. So in other words, the uncle and aunt were not there.
GRACE: Got it. Let`s go to Brad Lamm, board-registered interventionist at Bradlamm.com. All of these excuses amounts to either a concerted effort to avoid cops looking at him or more denial. That`s why people don`t have interventions, they`re in denial. They don`t want to admit there`s a problem. Now this problem has cost eight lives.
BRAD LAMM, INTERVENTIONIST: If I was the family right now, I would look at trying to -- not just for right now, when the boy -- the surviving child gets out of the hospital, but really talk about who`s going to take best care of that child. When you have both parents that are in denial, I find that it`s best to help get the kids out of the situation so that we can really address the issues going on there, Nancy.
GRACE: What about it, Dr. Bethany?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, not only is this denial, this is pathological denial. And what is he covering up? Did she have a history of drinking? Did she have an untreated bipolar illness, which causes binge drinking? Had they had a fight right before she got in the car, she was disregulated (ph)? Did they have domestic disputes where she made threats against the children?
And do you know what else, Nancy? Never once does he take all this air time to memorialize those beautiful children, the life of the 2-year- old and his nieces. That`s the tragedy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At the time of the crash, toxicology has said she had a blood alcohol of .19, and she also had six grams of undigested alcohol in her stomach, as well as marijuana.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The nightmare began when 36-year-old Diane Schuler with five kids in her minivan mistakenly turned on to the Taconic Parkway`s exit ramp.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Schuler was apparently disoriented when she drove on to the Taconic Parkway. She had called her brother saying she didn`t feel right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The minivan reportedly continued in the wrong direction on the parkway for 1.7 miles before it hit this SUV carrying three men who were killed on impact. The minivan with the kids then careened into a third car, rolled down this embankment and burst into flames.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Toxicology reports found Schuler was twice over the legal alcohol limit and showed evidence of marijuana use.
MARSHAL NEMARK, BASTARDI FAMILY`S ATTORNEY: It`s difficult for me to believe that nobody knew the propensity of this woman to drink and have drugs. I think it`s extremely unusual, extremely suspicious.
I think that the family should have been immediately notified the state police to stop that vehicle. They knew the license plate, and not let her proceed. Yet they let her proceed.
DOMINIC BARBARA, SCHULER FAMILY ATTORNEY: The questions asked, did she have an alcohol problem? Did you know her to go to bars?
DANIEL SCHULER, DIANE SCHULER`S HUSBAND: Absolutely not.
BARBARA: Did you know her to get drunk and act.
SCHULER: I never saw her drunk since the day I met her. Sad. Very sad. Upset. Lost my daughter, I lost my wife. All I have is my son.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are you angry at your wife?
SCHULER: No. I`m not angry at her.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Take us to that morning.
SCHULER: It was normal. She was fine. We had a cup of coffee in the morning, packed the cars up like we always do and headed out. It was just like every other weekend, or every weekend we go up there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: And according to reports, Rupa Mikkilineni, one of the little children, the nieces try -- they knew something was wrong and they tried to call like there`s something is wrong with Aunt Diane. I mean, there they were helpless in that car, knowing that something was horribly wrong. Seeing cars whizzing past.
God only knows what was going on in that car, and I think of the children strapped in. No way out. No way to save their own lives.
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: That`s right, Nancy. And during the time period of that amazing ride, four hours, there were several phone calls made, and one of those phone calls was with one of the children on the phone, indicating fear, and you know, Aunt Diane is disoriented, doesn`t feel well. She didn`t use those words, but something was wrong. The children knew it.
GRACE: To Glynn Birch, former Mad Mothers against Drunk Drivers, and national president who lost his son to a drunk driver. He`s the vice president of Innocorp.
Glynn, thank you for being with us. Weigh in.
GLYNN BIRCH, MADD FMR. NATIONAL PRESIDENT, LOST SON TO DRUNK DRIVER, VP OF INNOCORP: You know, he`s in denial, Nancy. You know, when you lose children and your loved ones in such a horrific crime, you`re in denial. You`re stretched into two different worlds.
First, you have to face the fact that you have lost your loved ones. Secondly, you`re thrust into a criminal justice system, and he`s trying to have a defense for his wife.
But you know, clearly, she doesn`t fit the typical picture we have of your drunk driver. She may be a soccer mom. However, her behavior, she clearly is a typical drunk driver. One who has a high BAC, you know, that`s the fact. And the second fact is, driving the wrong way. And these two factors trump the Anbesol.
So clearly, we have to really take a look at who`s going to be the voice of the victims, those innocent children, who are no longer with us. You know, evidence is going to come out, but one day when it comes to the trial, let`s hope that the evidence speaks loud and clear of what really took place.
GRACE: Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health, Johns Hopkins. Dr. Makary, what do you make of all these shifting, changing claims that they are coming up with to explain what happened?
DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Well, to be honest with you, Nancy, the Anbesol and the transient ischemic attack or TIA arguments are the most common arguments used in DUI and alcohol- related crimes. That`s because they`re hard to trace.
The problem with the Anbesol argument is that it increases your breathalyzer alcohol, but not your blood alcohol. So it may give you a false positive on the breathalyzer test, but this was a blood alcohol test, so that is going to be medically proven wrong, and that`s a fallacy of an argument.
The transient ischemic attack, same thing. They`re hard to trace but it would almost be a case report, a first time in the medical literature, for a 36-year-old to have it.
GRACE: Everyone, we are shifting gears, going live to California. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson`s life at the end was being controlled and manipulated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a personal doctor here with him, sir.
911 OPERATOR: Oh, there`s a doctor there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police have executed a search warrant at a Las Vegas pharmacy in connection with Jackson`s death. More than a dozen law enforcement officers, federal drug agents, all inside the Applied Pharmacy in Las Vegas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This search was specific in that it was a follow-up on information that they were able to get out of Murray`s clinic and home when that search about a week and a half ago in Vegas. They used that information, which now has basically taken them to the pharmacy.
And then you could take from that that they are looking for the origin of specific prescriptions that had to do with this case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We learned the toxicology report is complete, but the cause of death still top-secret.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If there is a single drug in his system, and a single obvious cause of death, maybe the case gets a little easier. But if there are other drugs in his system, if he has a history of use of other drugs, it does seem like a very hard case.
JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FATHER: You don`t seek a doctor, and stick him in the room, and the doctor gives him something to make him rest, and then he don`t wake up no more? Something is wrong there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight we learn of allegations against Michael Jackson`s live-in doctor. Reportedly, he shoots Jackson up with propofol, a highly powerful intravenous drug, and then leaves the room to make private cell calls? Leaving Jackson there alone to die?
To our chief editorial producer, Ellie Jostad. What about it, Ellie, what do we know?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, the "Los Angeles Times" is reporting from three different sources that cardiologist Doctor Murray claims that he spoke to investigators. He told them that he had been regularly administering propofol, that powerful anesthetic, to Jackson to help him sleep.
Now that night in question, Jackson was under the influence of propofol. This doctor reportedly told investigators in an interview that because there had never been problems in the past, he felt he could leave the room and make several phone calls.
When he returned, Jackson was not breathing. Now we spoke to the spokesperson for the doctor, they wouldn`t -- or the doctor`s attorney, rather. They wouldn`t confirm all of the articles, details, but they would confirm the comments that the attorney made.
He said he was not going to dispute what these investigators said. But he says they are not telling the whole story.
GRACE: But that doesn`t jive, Allen Duke, entertainment editor with the CNN Wire, with the earlier story that Jackson fell dramatically. Fell down, cardiac arrest, in front of his son, Prince, Michael Jackson. And the boy thought that his dad was kidding. That doesn`t jive. Those two stories don`t match.
ALLEN DUKE, ENTERTAINMENT EDITOR, CNN WIRE: No, I guess they wouldn`t. But what we`re hearing today from -- about the phone calls, we`re hearing from his attorney, the spokesman for Dr. Murray`s attorney, acknowledging that he made some phone calls to family and relatives before finding Jackson in distress in a bedroom. But we`re not hearing that part of the story from, of course, the lawyer.
GRACE: Ellie Jostad, the two versions of what happened don`t match.
JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. Well, the version where the children saw Michael Jackson collapse comes from a "New York Post" story originally, I believe, with Stacey Brown, the Jackson biographer.
Other reports have said that rather Dr. Murray found Jackson in a bedroom, he started calling for other people in the house. He said, get Prince, but it`s not clear that Jackson actually fell down in the presence of the children.
GRACE: To Dr. Marty Makary, again, joining us from Johns Hopkins. Dr. Makary, propofol, how it works to make you sleep, don`t you shoot it up intravenously, and you have to lay there with the needle in your arm the whole time you`re asleep? I mean when you take it out, you wake up.
MAKARY: That`s exactly right. The second you stop giving it is the second you wake up. And it`s basically you only use for general anesthesia. I can understand how he may have gotten comfortable and left the room, but when you get a dose that`s a little bit higher than the effective dose, it`s very easy to stop breathing.
GRACE: Everybody, we`re taking your calls live. Breaking news in the Michael Jackson investigation.
The verdict is in. Tonight`s winner of our show`s number one fan contest is Lagrange, North Carolina friend, Gwendolyn Wall. She came close to leaving studies at Kaplan University after becoming extremely ill. But she says our show inspired her to keep working.
And now she is only a few months away from graduating with a degree in paralegal science. She is not only one of our new fans, but she dedicates her life to supporting our troops. Her favorite job, taking care of husband Chuck and 14-year-old daughter Shelby.
Congratulations, Gwendolyn, you get that signed copy of the new thriller, out in bookstores now, "Eleventh Victim." Thank you, friend.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHERILYN LEE, MICHAEL JACKSON`S ALLEGED FMR. NURSE, SAYS HE PLEADED FOR DANGEROUS DRUG: He really wanted to get a good night`s sleep. And that he had gone through everything in the past. Really didn`t help him to sleep. And he wanted a -- the Diprivan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Search warrants seem to imply investigators think Michael Jackson was an addict.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The warrant state is looking for evidence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And exactly where, Dr. Bethany Marshall, author of "Deal Breakers," does the private live-in doctor, stripper girlfriend fit into that scenario?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, Apparently, Dr. Murray had an ex-stripper girlfriend with whom he had a love child, and he stashed her in an apartment near king of pop`s home. According to one report, he gave this woman a $3500 check the night after their first encounter. Is this the kind of grandiosity that could have led him.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, wait, hold up, Bethany.
MARSHALL: Yes.
GRACE: Their first encounter. You mean their first trick?
MARSHALL: Their first sexual encounter? Their first trick.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: . perfume on a pig, but you know, be my guest. So, Natisha Lance, do cell phone records suggest that he juices Jackson up with an intravenous shot, leaves the room to call the stripper girlfriend?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, we don`t know what those records are going to reveal right now. We don`t even know how long Dr. Murray had left the room for, but what we do know is that when he returned, Michael Jackson was no longer breathing.
GRACE: To Tom Shamshak, former police chief, now instructor at Boston University, private investigator. Tom, where would you go from here?
TOM SHAMSHAK, FMR. POLICE CHIEF, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, INSTRUCTOR AT BOSTON UNIV.: Nancy, good evening. The one investigative tool that I would use would be the time line, and I would make sure that we find out who was in the room with Michael. Make sure that the security, the doctor, the nurse -- get an idea of who was there, and who was supposed to be there.
GRACE: John Burris, what about it?
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s appropriate. I think you`ve got to find out the time line. I mean, the doctor is in a very difficult position, because if he left that room for any period of time, and Michael was unattended, he had some real problems there because...
GRACE: What kind of problems are you talking? Homicide problems? Are you talking about neglect?
BURRIS: Well, yes -- negligence. Criminal negligence type problems.
GRACE: Renee?
BURRIS: Because number one, you`re using the type of wrong drug, and then secondly, you`re negligent taking care of him.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And that`s right, Nancy. And if this criminal negligence rises to the level of just something so reckless and out of control, then he is looking at possibly manslaughter charges.
GRACE: Very quickly, a 5-year-old little boy afflicted with cerebral palsy, braces on his ankles, missing. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities in Oakland, California are searching for clues in the case of missing 5-year-old Hasanni Campbell who is disabled with cerebral palsy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say around 4:00, they received a call for help from the 5-year-old boy`s father. He told officers he drove his son to Shuz of Rockridge where the boy`s mother works so he could leave the child in her care.
Police say the father left the boy in the BMW of the back lot of the store while he walked around to the front to unlock the door. When the father opened the store`s back door, he told police his son was gone.
LOUIS ROSS, HASANNI CAMPBELL, MISSING CHILD`S FOSTER FATHER: I feel responsible for this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Immediately, there was this -- five or six cop cars right after that. It was pretty quick. A number of our regulars ran out to try to see if they could find the little boy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The entire area was shut down by investigators as search dogs combed for clues. Police fearful Hasanni may have been abducted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The very latest in this case, to Henry K. Lee, "San Francisco Chronicle" reporter. What about it?
HENRY K. LEE, REPORTER, SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, it`s been several days since anyone has seen Hasanni. And we do know that the -- his foster father, Louis Ross, has taken a polygraph. Still no signs of the little boy, Nancy, as every hour becomes critical.
GRACE: To Sebastian Kunz, KNEW Radio, I understand that he has agreed to a polygraph?
SEBASTIAN KUNZ, REPORTER, KNEW RADIO, COVERING STORY: That`s correct, Nancy. In fact, that went down yesterday, according to the reports we`re hearing. Now, the foster mother in the case did not want to take a polygraph. She is six months pregnant and was concerned there might have been a health risk involved there. But in fact, the foster father did take a polygraph test yesterday.
GRACE: With me right now, special guest, that foster father to Hasanni, Louis Ross. Mr. Ross, thank you for being with us.
ROSS: You`re welcome.
GRACE: Mr. Ross, I understand that you volunteered to take a polygraph.
ROSS: Yes, I did. We have nothing to hide. And basically, it was just -- this has been a traumatic experience but we understood that the police have a job to do, and that -- part of that job is really on everybody so polygraph was basically a normal process.
GRACE: Mr. Ross, I really admire that. Mr. Ross, explain to me in the moments that we have left, everyone wants to know, you left the boy in the car. But now that I understand what you`re telling us, it`s much more innocent than it sounds.
ROSS: Yes. And that`s part of our frustration. I mean outside of our son being missing, the information that`s being put through the media, the majority of it is incorrect. Let`s begin with where my son was when I left. This is a routine that we have had for the past four to five months, because actually I`m in a class from 6:00 to 9:30 on those nights, and there is a time window where we needed someone to watch the kids.
I would be in class, and Jennifer would be at work. Their aunt. So I would drop the kids off at the store, and they would stay in the back room and play with each other until she got off work, and they would all come home together, and I would see them at 9:30, 10:00 at night when I got home from class.
As normal routine, I would pull into the back park -- there`s a little small parking lot behind the store that accommodates about two to four cars. I would pull into that parking spot, then proceed to basically get out of my side, walk around, open up the door for Hasanni.
And because that was normal routine, Hasanni is not as physically disabled as has been portrayed in the media. Number one, he does not wear silver leg braces that`s been thrown out there in the media, which is kind of disconcerting, because to me, that was a discriminator.
If I`m scanning, looking for a child and you tell me he`s missing and he`s wearing silver leg braces on the outside of his clothes, that`s what I`m looking at. We were extremely frustrated to say that that story got out. And it was.
GRACE: Right. Aren`t they small, white braces on his ankles?
ROSS: Yes. And you.
GRACE: OK.
ROSS: Don`t need to wait for you to see them as if you actually -- he was wearing shorts.
GRACE: OK.
ROSS: And even then you would actually have to look down in his spleen.
GRACE: So you open the door, and you`re in this back parking lot, and then what happened?
ROSS: I opened up his car door. While I open up the door, he`s has already taken off his seatbelt from his car seat.
GRACE: Right.
ROSS: And he`s standing up, waiting to get out. As I walk around to hit the side with his sister, I say Hasanni, go stand by the back door. He`s done this a couple of times before.
I grab his sister, who`s 19 months, and I take her with me.
GRACE: Right.
ROSS: Before leaving the car, I pop the trunk of the car and open the trunk and I shut the door. So at this time, his door is open, and the trunk of my car is open. And then I proceed to the front of the store. At the front of the store, I don`t walk inside. I`m still on the sidewalk. I see their aunt. She knows why I`m there. I tell her, open up the back door.
GRACE: OK.
ROSS: She turns to walk to the back to open up the door. I then circle back, the same way I came, right around the corner, to basically hand over Alia. By the time I got there, Jennifer is already out of the store, walking toward me, asking where is Hasanni, and I say, what do you mean, where is Hasanni, and I look around to the side, and he is no longer there.
GRACE: Everyone, with me right now is Hasanni`s foster father, Louis Ross. He`s been the subject of intense, intense scrutiny being the last one with the little boy. His explanation is perfectly crystal-clear. He is taking your calls.
As we go to break, I want to wish a very happy birthday to a New York friend of the show. A proud mother of three, beautiful Anita Torres. Happy birthday. And thank you to Annette Rosy and Borders Bookstore, Columbus Circle, New York, for hosting a book signing just before we went to air. Thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Back to the father of Hasanni Campbell, a 5-year-old little boy. He is not wearing big, silver leg braces, wearing little plastic, I think, white color braces around his ankles. He simply can`t jump or run. You wouldn`t even notice them unless he had on shorts.
Louis Ross, it sounds like he was only standing there unattended for just a matter of seconds. Maybe less than a minute. Maybe a minute at most.
ROSS: It was about two to five minutes. And this was our -- this was our routine for months.
GRACE: And what flashed through your mind when she said where is Hasanni?
ROSS: Initially, it didn`t hit me. He`s probably standing around there, probably just got -- when Hasanni gets frustrated, he freezes. So I thought he would still be on the side. And we all thought -- even Jennifer thought he was probably just hiding and joking around.
GRACE: How did you come to be his foster father?
ROSS: To make a long story short, his biological parents are not in a position mentally to take care of him. So Jennifer had gotten involved with their lives, and visiting them, and we were approached by social services, would we be willing to take them.
One of the concerns was Hasanni most likely would not be placed, but his sisterly Alia who was the infant, would be the placed so they would be split up. So we basically agreed.
GRACE: So you took them in even while your wife is pregnant, right?
ROSS: She became pregnant after the fact, that`s correct, and we`re engaged.
GRACE: Everyone, won`t you help us? This little boy with cerebral palsy, missing. 510-238-2641.
Let`s stop and remember Marine Lance Corporal Jeremy Lasher, 27, Oneida, New York, on a second tour. Met his baby boy the first time after the first tour. Lost his life 48 hours after last speaking to his wife.
A volunteer firefighter back home with a big heart and smile. Loved landscaping, music, drawing, favorite football team, the New York Giants. Leaves behind parents, Vicki and Gary, brother Ryan, also serving Marines, widow Andrea, baby boy Caiden.
Jeremy Lasher, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp, Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
