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Campbell Brown
Racial Identity in America; Audiotapes Shed New Light on Stranded Airline Passengers
Aired August 21, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hey there, everybody.
A lot of ground to cover tonight, but we are going to start as we always do with the "Mash-Up." It is, of course, our look at the stories making an impact right now, the moments you may have missed today. We're watching it all, so you don't have to.
Some new information and just-released audio recordings give a new window into just how boneheaded some decisions by some airport workers in Rochester, Minnesota, were earlier this month.
You remember this story, an ExpressJet flight diverted because of bad weather, 47 passengers locked on the plane for hours. Well, today, federal officials cleared the plane's crew. The captain tried to get those passengers off.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CAPTAIN: They're getting really upset. I need to tell them something. I just can't sit here any longer.
And there's no food, and they're just getting really unhappy. And the problem, too, is that the terminal is closed here. And they won't let them get off because the terminal is closed.
We're stuck here with no lavs, no nothing, no food.
Well, then what can I tell these people? That they're just stuck here for the rest of the night? There have been lawsuits about this kind of stuff.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BROWN: Blame, we are learning, goes to a regional airline representative who would not let the passengers and crew into the terminal. We're going to have a whole lot more on this story coming up shortly.
Hurricane Bill could still mess up some weekend plans. Right now, it's a Category 2 hurricane, sliding up the Atlantic coast between Bermuda and the United States, but the storm could get stronger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It may turn back into a 3 because of that warmer water, but it is still not going to hit the U.S. East Coast. And now the Hurricane Center is saying that there may not even be tropical storm-force winds on the Cape Cod area.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The tide is becoming really, really rough because of Hurricane Bill. It is supposed to be approaching Saturday morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please, this is not a weekend to be out at the beaches.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Check out this bird's-eye view of Hurricane Bill given to us by NASA. You can see just how massive this storm really is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Now, the White House keeping a close eye on Hurricane Bill. The president is headed to Martha's Vineyard, off the Massachusetts coast Sunday. His vacation has started.
But his problems, oh, they are not going anywhere.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: The president of the United States there wrapping up some last-minute business before going on vacation with his wife and kids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was talking about U.S. troops. There are some 60,000 U.S. troops now on the ground in Afghanistan.
ANDREA MITCHELL, NBC NEWS: Critics are slamming the president for leaving town right in the middle of a heated health care fight.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A group opposed to the presidents's health care reform plans tells CNN they're spending $150,000 airing an ad on local TV stations that makes reference to the fact that the president is vacationing. The question is, should this president get a break or should he forgo this year's vacation to focus on health care?
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, HOST, "THIS WEEK WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS": They're going to take a break to give the White House and the president a chance to recharge and to let this whole debate cool down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The smile on his face to me was the most convincing gesture I have seen him make all week. He was thrilled to finally be out of here and anxious to get away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Anxious, I'm sure, and who wouldn't be smiling? The president and his family are staying at a private oceanside estate that rents for $35,000 a week.
Cash for clunkers ends on Monday, but most dealers say the rebate program is already over for them. Nearly 500,000 people traded their old gas guzzler in for a new car. So, success or disaster, the program? Well, that depends on who you ask.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This has been a very successful program.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's been a bureaucratic nightmare from the beginning.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It has been successful beyond anybody's imagination.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have not been paid on a single claim.
GIBBS: The program has been enormously successful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As of right now, we have not been funded yet on one deal.
RAY LAHOOD, U.S. SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION: They're going to get their money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Well, get ready for the next rebate program, cash for your old kitchen appliance. That starts late this fall, seriously.
The search is still on for the reality TV contestant wanted for his ex-wife's murder. Her body was found in a suitcase in a dumpster. Today, we learned new details about how she died.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: International manhunt under way this morning for the man charged with killing model Jasmine Fiore, authorities looking for Fiore's ex-husband a reality TV star named Ryan Jenkins. They think he may be hiding in Canada.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There will be no stone unturned, and we will look under every rock for him. He needs to understand that he's now officially wanted.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jasmine Fiore's teeth and fingers had been removed, presumably to make it more difficult for police to identify her body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jenkins already has a criminal conviction for domestic abuse in Canada and was arrested this year in Las Vegas, where he's accused of punching his now-dead wife.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We also just spoke to the Buena Park Police Department a few minutes ago, and they tell us they are working in conjunction with the U.S. Marshals office, Canadian authorities and Washington State authorities to try to find him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: We also learned today how investigators I.D.ed Fiore's body. They tracked the serial number on her breast implants.
There are new developments in the Michael Jackson story, a new date for his burial and a new search for evidence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's a search under way at Mickey Fine Pharmacy in Beverly Hills. Jackson had used the pharmacy for years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This pharmacy is located directly below the offices of Dr. Arnold Klein, the close friend and dermatologist of Michael Jackson. This is also a building where Michael Jackson frequently visited, as recently as three days before his June 25 death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson is not going to be laid to rest after all on what would have been his 51st birthday on August the 29th.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A private funeral and burial for the superstar singer will take place on September 3. No reason was given for the date change.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: We also heard from the godfather of Michael Jackson's kids today. He could also be their real father. At least he thinks he could. Former child star Mark Lester talked to Matt Lauer on "The Today Show." Headline here? Uncomfortable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK LESTER, FORMER CHILD STAR: Michael was very shy when it came to women, and he confided to me that he had found it very difficult to actually do the sexual act. So, I just jokingly said, well, look, Michael, if you don't want to do it, money I will do it for you.
MATT LAUER, CO-HOST, "THE TODAY SHOW": If he's uncomfortable with the act of having sex with a woman, he could still use his own sperm...
LESTER: Exactly.
LAUER: ... to become the biological father of a child. Why did he need your sperm?
LESTER: Exactly. That I don't know.
LAUER: You have said that you would be willing to take a paternity test; is that true?
LESTER: Yes, if it was necessary. I loved those kids. I'm the godfather to those kids. I just really -- all I want to do is to remain in contact, my family and Michael's children's.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Now, the Jackson family attorney told "The Today Show" that Lester's claims -- quote -- "do not serve the best interests of the children."
It will be weeks before we know the final results of Afghanistan's presidential election, current President Karzai and the other leading candidate both claiming victory right now.
And that brings us to tonight's "Punchline." This is courtesy of Jon Stewart, who we have learned can always find humor, even in a war zone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART": Turnout in Afghanistan, incredibly low. That's a real kick in the teeth. We bring them democracy on a silver platter and they don't even show up to vote. Oh, let me guess. It's raining. Oh, the traffic on the Khyber Pass was too heavy.
(LAUGHTER)
STEWART: Oh, my opium fields are burning.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Taliban vowed to hunt down those who voted. "If we find anyone with ink on their fingers, we will cut it off," said this Taliban commander.
(LAUGHTER)
STEWART: You know who I feel bad for right now? Some guy in Afghanistan at work whose pen exploded. No. No, you don't understand. I -- all I did was put it in my pocket. It was -- oh, I'm not even following the election.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Jon Stewart, everybody, maybe a little dark for a Friday night. Anyway, that is the "Mash-Up."
Coming up next, audiotapes you have got to hear to believe. This is a pilot begging an airline to get the passengers off a plane where they were stranded for nine hours, gets no help at all. Tonight, we get to the bottom of who is really to blame here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAPTAIN: They are getting really up set, you know, with the plane. So, we just need to work out some way to get them off. We can't keep them here any longer. They don't understand, because the terminal isn't open. But I need to tell them something. I mean, I just can't sit here any longer.
DISPATCHER: It's not a good situation.
CAPTAIN: And there's no food or anything. And there's no food, and they're just getting really unhappy. There have been lawsuits about this kind of stuff.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight, new developments and new recordings released in the case of those passengers left stranded on a plane for nine hours. We now know the captain was desperately trying to get her passengers off that plane and into the terminal. But she was refused by another airline, the only one that had a ground crew on duty that time of night. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CAPTAIN: We can't keep them here any longer. They don't understand, because the terminal isn't open. But I need to tell them something. I mean, I just can't sit here any longer.
DISPATCHER: You're not doing too good tonight, huh?
CAPTAIN: No, no. We have...
(CROSSTALK)
DISPATCHER: It's not a good situation.
CAPTAIN: No. And there's no food, and they're just getting really unhappy. And the problem, too, is that the terminal is closed here.
DISPATCHER: Yes.
CAPTAIN: So, we can't even get to the terminal. The people -- if they get off into the terminal and just mill around, but they -- they can't.
DISPATCHER: The only solution I can even think of is to wait for Northwest to show up, their ops to show up, which probably shouldn't be too long, so we can get the people off.
CAPTAIN: Well, they're here, but they can't let them off.
DISPATCHER: They won't let them off into the terminal?
CAPTAIN: No, because the terminal is closed. They won't let them off.
We're stuck here with no lavs, no nothing, no food.
DISPATCHER: Yes.
CAPTAIN: And they won't let them get off because the terminal is closed.
(CROSSTALK)
DISPATCHER: Well, if the terminal -- if it's a secured area, it doesn't matter if it's closed or not. They can -- they should be able to let the people off. If they stay in a sterile, then they should be fine.
CAPTAIN: That's what I thought, but they're saying they can't let them off.
There have been lawsuits about this kind of stuff.
DISPATCHER: Yes.
DISPATCHER: Nobody is willing to do anything, so he's trying to pull some strings if he can. So, all we are going to have to do now is wait and see what he comes up with.
(CROSSTALK)
CAPTAIN: OK. We have to do something.
DISPATCHER: So, those passengers will have to come off that airplane. OK, you have not let these passengers off because TSA is not in the terminal?
AGENT: TSA is now in the terminal.
DISPATCHER: Try are now in the terminal.
(CROSSTALK)
AGENT: Our terminal is now open.
DISPATCHER: It is open. These passengers can come off this aircraft?
OK, they have been on this airplane for over four hours.
AGENT: Here, I'm going to have you talk to my manager.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BROWN: Whoa, a lot of passing the buck going on right there.
Today, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said a preliminary investigation shows the other airline, Mesaba, which -- or Mesaba, which is owned by Delta, was at fault for not helping. Their employee wrongly thought the passengers couldn't be allowed in because of -- security screeners had gone home for the night.
So, with me now to hash this out in St. Paul, Minnesota, Link Christin, who was one of those stranded passengers who was on that flight, and in San Francisco, Kate Hanni, head of the group FlyersRights.org, joining me.
Link, listening to those recordings there, clearly, your pilot was pleading with people in that airport to try to get you guys off the plane. Does it make you, I guess, feel better or worse?
LINK CHRISTIN, PASSENGER: Well, it makes me feel better that at least she and the dispatcher were acknowledging among themselves how serious this situation was.
On the other hand, I wonder how in the world a regional carrier could be permitted to be making a decision whether or not we can stay on that airplane.
BROWN: You know, Kate, over the course of this ordeal, there were some 30 phone calls -- you just heard a very short snippet of them -- that were made to try to get these people off the plane. But you think that the pilot still didn't do enough. Why?
HANNI: Well, it's my understanding that the pilot in theory has control of the aircraft, and that's what the pilots say, is that, we have the ultimate control of the aircraft and are committed to our passengers' health and safety, and that they can make a decision to pull into a gate regardless a station manager or a ramp teller operator for another airline telling them that they can't.
That's what happened on my flight. Our pilot said, I may suffer the risk of being fired here, but I'm pulling the plane in, because it's unsafe to hold the passengers any longer.
BROWN: All right. As we heard and played for you a moment ago, the pilot was pleading with the Mesaba Airlines rep to let the passengers into the airport. We, of course, invited Mesaba Airlines, which is owned by Delta, on the show. We invited Delta on the show as well. Both declined.
Let me, though, read this brief statement from Mesaba.
It says: "Mesaba respectfully disagrees with the Department of Transportation's preliminary findings, because Continental Express Flight 2816 diverted to an airport where they have no ground handling service. Mesaba offered assistance as a courtesy and looks forward to the final report."
Delta says they're apologetic, but they're working to conduct an internal investigation into what happened, checking it out a little bit further. What do you think, Kate?
HANNI: Well, you know, I'm confused, because that Northwest plane that diverted the same time this flight did, did go to a gate and did get its passengers off and did get them on a bus to the Twin Cities. So, who was telling that plane yes or no to go to a gate? Clearly, Mesaba favored that Northwest flight in allowing them to come to a gate and take their passengers off. And they're related.
BROWN: Right.
HANNI: So, it really feels like -- you know, the airline industry is complicated, but taking care of the passengers is simple.
BROWN: Link, are you...
HANNI: And that's why I...
BROWN: No, go ahead.
HANNI: Sorry.
BROWN: Finish your point, Kate.
HANNI: Well, I'm flying to Martha's Vineyard on Sunday. I just heard on your show talking about, does the president deserve a break? And I'm flying from San Francisco to Martha's Vineyard to do a press conference to ask him to please hear our cry and pass the airline passenger bill of rights in Congress. Sign it into law.
Let's get this done, so airline passengers don't have to worry any longer about whether or not they will be able to get off a plane.
BROWN: Link, are you or are any of the other passengers that you know of, are you considering legal action here?
CHRISTIN: Well, we have started to talk among ourselves, and I think that is an option.
But I think what you have talked about tonight is just the beginning of the facts of what really happened here. And I feel like we would want all those facts to come out before we would make any kind of decision like that.
BROWN: All right.
Link Christin joining us tonight, and Kate Hanni, appreciate it, as always, guys. Thank you.
HANNI: Thank you, Campbell.
CHRISTIN: Thank you.
BROWN: Tonight's breakout, biracial, not black, in the age of Obama -- the heated debate happening over race identity in politics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to be who I am. And my biggest beef is, yes, I'm a sister, but I'm also a white girl. So, I'm a half a both. I'm a half a white girl and I'm a half a sister.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight's newsmakers: three missing American hikers kidnapped in Iran. Hear from their families for the first time about their fight to get them free.
And tonight's breakout, biracial, not black -- the controversial debate over what really defines race.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're not just black or you're not just white. We somehow need to be acknowledged more, instead of just saying somebody's black.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight's breakout, a new documentary that's igniting a lot of controversy, online and in movie theaters tonight. It's called "I'm Biracial, Not Black Damn It!"
And here's CNN's Ted Rowlands in Los Angeles with a preview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, this documentary is called Biracial, Not Black Damn It!" And, as the title suggests, it is about people what were born to both a black and a white parent who say that choosing one over the other is no longer acceptable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to be who I am. And my biggest beef is, yes, I'm a sister, but I'm also a white girl. So, I'm a half a both. I'm a half a white girl and half a sister.
ROWLANDS: Filmmaker Carolyn Battle-Cochrane and others in her documentary, "Biracial, Not Black Damn It!", have this in common with President Barack Obama. They have a black parent and a white parent.
But that's where the similarity stops. Unlike Mr. Barack Obama, who is considered to be the first black president, they're outspoken in their refusal to embrace one race or the other. They want to be called what they are, biracial.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It doesn't matter how a biracial child happens to look. If it looks more black or more white or doesn't look it has any black in them, we're still our own race, and we don't belong to one or the other.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're not just black or you're not just white. We somehow need to be acknowledged more, instead of just saying somebody's just black. I mean, look at me. I don't look like I'm black. ROWLANDS: Cochrane says she made the documentary after struggling with her racial identity for years. Her father was black and her mother is white. She says the documentary became an outlet for her to vent and take a stand about something that has affected her all her life.
CAROLYN BATTLE-COCHRANE, DIRECTOR: I was told as a child by my father I was black. My mom said, hey, I had something to do with this. But, for survival purposes, I lived my life as a black woman. And, internally, I never felt right. As I got older, I felt like it was almost a form of self-hatred, because I was ashamed of who I was.
ROWLANDS: Curtis Haines, and Revonda Bowen, both biracial, share her sentiments.
CURTIS HAINES, BIRACIAL: This country says you are one or the other. Identify yourself properly as one or the other.
REVONDA BOWEN, BIRACIAL: I have been called a zebra. I have been called a swirl. I have been called an Oreo. I have been called mixed. I have been called all these things. Society puts people in boxes. I choose not to be in those boxes.
ROWLANDS: Identifying yourself as black when you have one parent who clearly isn't can perhaps be traced back to the American South and slavery in the 19th century, use of the so-called one-drop rule that essentially said if you were born with one drop of black blood or looked black on the outside, you were deemed as such.
Cochrane believes that has changed a bit in our country, but she would like to see more done.
BATTLE-COCHRANE: But the truth of the matter is, is that the biracial community, multiracial as well, I mean, it's it's just growing. There's no label for people. It's not what are you. It's, like, who are you? That's really the end objective.
ROWLANDS (on camera): The documentary is part of a four-part series. Other installments will take a look at people who have black and Asian parents and white and Asian parents -- Campbell.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: All right, Ted Rowlands joining us from Los Angeles.
With us now from Charlotte, North Carolina, is the filmmaker, Carolyn Battle-Cochrane, who made that documentary, as we said. Also, Kristal Brent Zook, an associate professor of journalism at Hofstra University. She's also the author of "Black Women's Lives: Stories of Power and Pain." And we also have "Esquire" magazine contributor John Ridley, who discusses minority issues on his Web site, thatminoritything.com.
Carolyn, let me start with you here.
Your document, it has gotten a lot of attention and, frankly, a lot of negative, strong negative reaction from some black audiences. Tell us what you have been hearing from people.
BATTLE-COCHRANE: Well, they say that I have internalized racism and that I don't love the black side of myself, which is ridiculous. Clearly, I love all of me. And that's the message.
It's not about loving any part of yourself. It's about loving all of yourself and being whole.
BROWN: Have these, you know, screenings and stuff that you have been doing, have they started a dialogue at all?
BATTLE-COCHRANE: Absolutely. Absolutely.
I mean, it's -- a lot of people do get it. People that think and use their mind, they get it. People that are sort of stuck in time and think things should stay the way they are, they don't get it. But they have got to understand that nothing stays the same. You know, the world is evolving and people have to change the way they think.
It's a grow -- it's the fastest-growing population in this country. You can't hold us down. We have rights. We have the right to self-identify. And we're not going to accept anything short of that.
BROWN: Kristal, I wonder. President Obama, who is biracial, identifies himself, though, as black. Do you think that he would have been embraced the same way had he identified himself as biracial?
KRISTAL BRENT ZOOK, "ESSENCE": Yes, I think that that's -- it's such a complicated issue.
I think the first thing you have to really look at is how someone's raised. That's so important, because you have kids who are raised by one parent, a white parent or a black parent or both parents. And it's almost impossible to know how they see themselves on the inside, based on what they look like on the outside.
You know, for example, I was raised by an African-American mother and grandmother, and with no white parent in the household. So, that shapes your sense of self much more than who you think you see on the outside.
So, I understand that, you know, everyone has to be free to -- free to be you and me, free to define ourselves how we want.
(CROSSTALK)
ZOOK: But I also think that it's naive to think that -- you know, I wish people could see me on the inside, how I raised and how I see myself, but they don't. They're going to see what they see.
BROWN: John, what do you think? Why do people have such a hard time with this issue?
RIDLEY: I think it goes back to the whole idea of interracial relationships. Historically, people looked at it as a rejection. You're rejecting your race. If you are going outside of the race, this is a bad thing. And people looked at the children as being a consummation of this rejection.
It's not about rejecting your own race. It's about accepting someone else who they are -- for who they are. And that's the larger picture. I think, as was mentioned, as Carolyn mentioned, as Kristal mentioned, it's such a complex issue.
We can barely get past black and white, let alone biracial, multiethnic. You know, my family is multiethnic. People aren't quite ready for that. We should be. But it's about doubting (ph) getting passed a lot of the past so we can move towards the present and the future.
BROWN: And, Carolyn, in a way we have no choice, because in the coming decades in the not-so-distance future, I think we have different numbers on when that's going to occur, according to the census. But minorities in this country will outnumber whites. I mean, how will that affect I guess how we talk about race?
BATTLE-COCHRANE: Well, actually right now in this moment, the fastest growing new population in this country is of mixed children of all races under 18. So it's not a question of when, it's just happening in the moment.
And something that was just said about how you grow up. I've interviewed hundreds of people at this point, and I have a girl that's in the second series, second part of the series. She was adopted by two black parents. Was told she was black until she was 18 years old -- Marcia.
And she said she always felt different. She never felt like everybody else. So internally, regardless if you know you're biracial, there's some innate thing about as a human being that, you know, just because you're in an environment doesn't make you a certain type of person. Being just in a black environment I don't believe makes you feel like you've lived the black experience. You know, she was always different. You know, her skin wasn't like everybody else's.
BROWN: Right.
BATTLE-COCHRANE: Her hair texture wasn't like everybody else's.
BROWN: Well, let me ask you to end on a personal note, if you can, Kristal. How do you reconcile that with what you feel on the inside versus how you're living and what your life experience is?
ZOOK: Right. I think also part of the problem, and it's so wonderful that this film has been made, because we have a hard time talking about this within the race. Black people are discriminated against and discriminate against one another all the time based on color. So, it is hurtful and you do feel -- I identify with the part of the clip that says this vulnerability that you feel, even within your own race. How do you reconcile that? I think you really have to -- you have to get to know yourself and just be strong in who you see yourself to be, regardless of how people see you on the outside.
BROWN: All right. We're going to leave it there. Kristal Brent Zook, Carolyn Battle-Cochrane, good luck with the movie. Carolyn, appreciate your time tonight.
BATTLE-COCHRANE: Thank you so much. Thank you, Campbell.
BROWN: And John Ridley who's going to stick around with us for a while.
Tonight's "big question," how much is President Obama willing to sacrifice to pass health care reform? Is he willing to be a one-term president?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I have heard the president say that if making tough decisions in -- in getting important things done that Washington has failed to deal with for decades means that he only lives in this house and makes those decisions for four years, he's quite comfortable with that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: President Obama has just cleared seven months in office. But now as he faces his biggest political battle since taking office, our "big question," is the president really willing to only be a one- termer, if that's what it takes to get health care reform?
Well, listen carefully to the question that was posed to White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs. This was during today's briefing with reporters. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF: The conversation with the Congressman Leonard Boswell a week or so in Iowa. And he said that the president had told him and a group of other lawmakers that he was willing to be a one-term president if it -- if that meant getting health care reform through. Is that a message that you've heard him say, and that he has said to other groups, other lawmakers? And is that his view?
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, I don't know that I've specifically heard it around health care, Jeff, but I have heard him -- I have heard the president say that if making tough decisions in -- in getting important things done that Washington has failed to deal with for decades means that he only lives in this House and makes those decisions for four years, he's quite comfortable with that.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: Let's welcome now former Republican Congresswoman Susan Molinari. She is in Washington for us tonight. "Esquire" magazine contributor John Ridley back with us, and we're joined by Daily Beast contributor John Avlon as well.
John Ridley, let me start with you on this. One-term president, do you honestly -- did you ever think that the beginning of this August, seven months in, we'd be talking about Mr. Popularity as a one-term president?
RIDLEY: I didn't, and honestly, I think that becomes a bit of a political cliche. Does anybody go into a job saying I'd like to be here as short a time as possible, regardless?
Look, I think most politicians would like to think they can make the tough decisions. I think President Obama is willing to make tough decisions, but certainly not on health care. I mean, that is one of the toughest mountains to climb. Everyone has tried to climb it, that, social security. And I think politicians would rather stick around for the long haul than go down over something that is so Byzantine that none of us can figure it out.
BROWN: Susan, President Obama said yesterday that this is about the media looking for a story in the doldrums of August when there's not a whole lot of news and we're creating this. Is that what this is really about?
SUSAN MOLINARI (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: No, I think what it is about is -- first of all, members went home to have these listening sessions and these town hall meetings and they had an impact and a reaction that they weren't prepared for. So, you know what, that is news. A president who, as you said, had this incredible approval rating, you know, seven months ago and are seeing his approval ratings dropping based on his position on these issues. Well, that is a story.
When we pick up the newspapers today and see the leader, Steny Hoyer, saying something totally different than what the speaker said yesterday with regard to a public option, whether it had to be in the bill or not be in the bill, well, in Washington, D.C., and I think throughout this country, that is a story. You know, if there's a lot of unanswered questions here, and in August, it's time to talk about it.
BROWN: And it is affecting his poll numbers. It's not just the people's opinions on his health care plans or his message, but it's on his personal approval rating as well, John.
JOHN AVLON, CONTRIBUTOR, "THE DAILY BEAST": That's right. And look at the independent voters, right? The largest and fastest- growing segment of the electorate. They hold the balance of power. At the beginning of the summer over 60 percent approval for President Obama. Now in some polls it's down to 37.5. That is a significant erosion. It's about health care. It's about the perceptions that this process has been hijacked by the base and he's governing more liberally than he campaigned. That is a real problem. That is not an August thing that's going to go away. That's saying it needs to be dealt with. And the best way to be a two-term president is to be the leader of all the people. Not getting dragged or guilt-tripped into playing to the base.
BROWN: You know, a lot of the criticism has been the approach that this White House has taken and they were very clear at the beginning saying we want to do the opposite in terms of how we approach this, of what the Clinton White House did.
AVLON: Yes.
BROWN: And let's hand it off to Congress. Was that in retrospect now a mistake? There's a lot of navel gazing right now.
AVLON: I think they may have overlearned that lesson by overdelegating because they haven't been able to control the message or control the package. The key thing now, what we saw this week, the liberals are kicking back, saying there has to be a public option. This is the line in the sand. But it's up to the president to depolarize this debate by putting forward a bipartisan bill and showing the kind of leadership he campaigned on. That's the real challenge.
BROWN: Is this all going to be moot come September? I mean, are we sort of calling this game over a little too soon?
RIDLEY: In terms of the whole presidential picture.
BROWN: Yes, yes.
RIDLEY: It's not going to be moot until the jobs return. That's the big thing.
And to John's point, there are two things the president did. One, he was very specific about job creation. That's not there. So it looks like that didn't happen even though that's a lagging indicator. Wasn't specific enough and I agree 100 percent about what the health care bill is going to look like.
So people whether they like it or not can look at it and go, this is what I'm talking about, not some nebulous public, private, single payer. We don't know what the bill is. Congress doesn't know. The Senate doesn't know.
BROWN: Quickly, Susan, do you think that some form of health care is going to get passed here?
MOLINARI: I think it can get -- what we have are people like Senator Grassley and Senator Baucus talking about, you know, splitting the bill and taking those issues upon which Republicans, Democrats agree on. That is the move that I think the president feels he's going to feel he needs to make when he comes back in September because quite frankly, Campbell, the problem is not with Republicans right now.
BROWN: Right.
MOLINARI: The problem is between Democrats. They have to iron out how far they're going to go, and that is drawing a very conservative bill right now in order to get something passed. And he has staked his presidency, at least in the first seven months, on this issue.
BROWN: All right.
MOLINARI: He needs to pass something.
BROWN: Susan Molinari for us tonight, John Ridley and John Avlon as well. Thanks.
Three weeks ago today, three American hikers seized by authorities in Iran. How did they end up crossing the border? Tonight their families are with us talking about their struggle to bring them home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every situation is unique. Every country is unique. And we don't know how this is going to be resolved, but we'll take any help -- any help we can get.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight's "Newsmakers," the families of three American hikers arrested in Iran. It has been three weeks now without a word from their loved ones.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shane Bauer, Sarah Shourd and Joshua Fattal, all held in Iran since hiking in this tourist area, near the Iran/Iraq border on July 31st. Backpacking in the Kurdistan region of Iraq.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a hike through the mountains to the waterfall that landed the three Americans in Iranian custody, accused of not heeding warnings from border guards, even possibly spying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Diplomatic efforts have been fruitless.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Switzerland has not been granted consular access to the three American hikers. Iran has also not provided information about their location.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The lack of progress prompted this recent travel warning from Hillary Clinton.
HILLARY CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: Go hiking, have a great time, you know, do journalism, but stay away from those borders. Do not put yourself in these positions where you can end up in prison in a country like Iran or North Korea.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And here with me right now are Alex Fattal, who is the brother of Josh Fattal, Shane Bauer's sister, Shannon Bauer, and Sarah Shourd's brother, Chris Rapp, all joining me now.
Thank you, guys. Appreciate you being here.
Shannon, let me start with you. I know all of you hadn't had any contact with your siblings, obviously, but are you able to get information at all about their whereabouts, about what's going on in Iran? Just give us the latest in terms of what you know.
SHANNON BAUER, SISTER OF HIKER HELD IN IRAN: The latest that we know is that basically that they're being detained in Iran. There's no consular access. That's actually the next thing that we would love to hear.
BROWN: That somebody has had a chance to see them or talk to them.
BAUER: Exactly, yes.
BROWN: And so far, nothing.
BAUER: Nothing.
CHRIS RAPP, BROTHER OF HIKER HELD IN IRAN: No. We're 21 days into it now, with no contact at all.
BROWN: And, Alex, you know a little bit more about where they were going, what they were doing. Explain to people. Because a lot of people watching here, they are hiking on the border of Iraq/Iran, are they out of their minds? But it's not exactly like that. Explain it.
ALEX FATTAL, BROTHER OF HIKER HELD IN IRAN: Yes. I mean, I think it's understandable that people might have that reaction, because we are so accustomed to associating Iraq with the kind of bloodshed that's going on that we see on the television. But this part of the country, Kurdistan, has been an extremely safe part of the country, and extremely beautiful part of the country. And all three of them, you know, Josh, Sarah, Shane, they've really share a love for the outdoors.
BROWN: But even, let me ask all of you this -- I mean, still, it is the border of Iran and Iraq. Isn't it sort of inherently dangerous? Did you worry about them going there?
RAPP: Well, you know, you might think that we would, but we really didn't. And mostly because all three of them were seasoned travelers. And they were in constant communication with us, and they'd been traveling all over the Middle East. And actually when they entered into Iraq, they got SIM cards for their cell phones, so they can communicate with each other. So, they were sort of meticulous in doing this and really concerned about safety. So --
FATTAL: And while it is on the Iraq/Iran border, they were there to be in Iraqi Kurdistan. They had absolutely no intention of going to Iran. Not in the slightest, you know. All of our families received e-mails, have spoken with them, within a week of their travels. If they had even the slightest inclination or inkling that they might be going to Iran, one of us would know about it.
BROWN: And, Shannon, your brother, Shane, was actually able to call a friend from his cell phone as they were being taken into custody. What did he say was happening?
BAUER: From what we know, basically, he was just saying that he was being taken, and to call the embassy to get more information. And I think that, again, shows how -- how responsible they are in being prepared, and like they were saying, we talked to them. I talked to Shane Thursday, the day before it happened. He e-mailed me. And talked about it.
RAPP: We're still happy they have the cell phone on they'd be gone and we'd have no idea.
BROWN: No idea.
RAPP: OK. So, you know, at least they -- they had that. So, that was --
BROWN: And were able to flag people.
RAPP: Otherwise -- otherwise, they'd be gone and we wouldn't know.
BROWN: I don't have to tell you, Chris and Shannon, that there are reports from Iran that they are being investigated for spying. You can say confidently with 100 percent assuredness that there is no way that your siblings were doing anything like that. They weren't on a secret mission from the CIA?
RAPP: No.
BAUER: No.
BROWN: You would know that.
BAUER: Yes.
RAPP: Yes. I know I would. My sister teaches English. Before they moved to Damascus a year ago, she was teaching English as a second language in Oakland, California. And she's never been involved with anything like that. So, you know, for her it was a vacation.
FATTAL: I think for all of us, it's somewhat laughable, even the insinuation. I mean, it's just totally absurd.
BROWN: Alex, you know, we recently saw this situation, a similar situation resolved, when former President Clinton went to North Korea and was able to get the two young women there, the journalists released. Are you -- first of all, I know that the Ling sisters actually reached out to you guys. Give us a sense for what they had to say, what they were able to share with you.
FATTAL: I've had some short conversations with the Ling sisters and other people who've been detained in Iran, Roxanne Saberi, and other people who've been in detention, and that's been really, really heartening for us, because --
BROWN: Probably comforting in some way.
FATTAL: It's comforting because ultimately they were released and we're --
BROWN: Yes.
FATTAL: We're extremely confident that it's -- Josh, Sarah and Shane are going to be released. And we just hope that it's soon. You know, not having heard from them for -- for over three weeks is just really tough. But, you know, what brings us through it is the sense that we know who they are. We know they're wonderful people, and we know they're coming home.
BROWN: Well, Chris, Alex and Shannon, I can't even imagine how difficult this is, and what you guys and your families are going through right now. Wish you the best of luck. Thank you so much for being with us.
And if you would like to help the families, we have set up a Web site. It's called freethehikers.org. It's definitely worth checking out.
And when we come back, Hollywood's newest worry. Big-name stars making box office clunkers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK, "INGLORIUS BASTARDS")
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRAD PITT: We're going to be dropped into France dressed as civilians. Once we're in enemy territory, as a bushwhacking guerrilla army, we're going to be doing one thing and one thing only, killing Nazis.
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BROWN: Brad Pitt's "Inglorious Bastards" opens this weekend. Will he be able to turn around Hollywood's dissipating -- excuse me, disappointing trend with top star blockbusters?
A-list stars Julia Roberts, Tom Hanks, Will Ferrell, Denzel Washington, they used to pack theaters. This year their movies fizzled. So our "big question" tonight, why are A-list stars burning out?
Joining us, Sharon Waxman, editor-in-chief of TheWrap.com. And once again, John Ridley, who also happens to be a screenwriter, a man of many talents, back with us as well.
Sharon, let me start with you. You look at the list of the big movies this summer, "Transformers, "Revenge of the Fallen, an animated film, "Harry Potter" none of these with a big star in it -- none of the top five. What's going on?
SHARON WAXMAN, THEWRAP.COM: Well, what's going on is that there's a big adjustment happening in Hollywood. And this has been going on for some time in the sense the studios have noticed that they don't want to be paying those big star salaries anymore and what they've realized is they don't really have to.
Now what's going on this summer is I think it's more the themes of the movies rather than the stars that are driving people to the box office. What people want to do is they want to go in bad economic times, it's pretty clear they want to go in a theater and laugh and they want to go in a theater and they want to escape.
So movies like "The Hangover" which, it maybe not one of the top five, but it's definitely one of the top movies of the summer and it's probably the most profitable movie of the summer.
BROWN: Without a major star in it.
WAXMAN: There's no star.
BROWN: Yes.
WAXMAN: Without a single star. I mean, there's people in that movie I've never heard of. I saw a great movie that's doing really well at the box office. "District Nine." No stars in it at all.
So, we're really moving into a different era, when we used to be relying on stars to drive the box office. Now "A," Hollywood doesn't want to pay those salaries anymore and they're not. And, "B," audiences are showing that they'll show up in big numbers for movies that have, given the kind of experience, they want not just to connect with their favorite stars.
BROWN: And, John, I mean, you talk about the salary, or the paychecks that Sharon referenced, Denzel Washington, $20 million a movie. Julia Roberts, $20 million. Will Ferrell, $10 million. Are those days over of those kind of paychecks? And what does it mean...
RIDLEY: Yes.
BROWN: ... for -- I mean, is it a great opportunity for up-and- coming young actors, up-and-coming screenwriters and producers and directors?
RIDLEY: It's a great opportunity. But first of all, just the tip of the iceberg with the salary itself, the $20 million. Also, you get into profit participation which most of the studios don't report. Disney is one of the only one that does, about $600 million in fees to stars just from the film. So, the idea of for studios when so much of the economics of Hollywood is changing right now, to be able to say we're not paying $20 million upfront, we're not paying dollar one profit participation were going, as Sharon says, to people you've never heard of before, but it's this crazy idea. You're drunk overnight in Vegas. It's aliens in a district somewhere in South Africa, if you can get people to go based on the idea and not pay the money upfront, why would you not do that?
BROWN: So who are the new stars? The screenwriters? I guess the people are coming up with the ideas?
RIDLEY: You know what? The new stars they tend to (INAUDIBLE). They're definitely not screenwriters. But it is about the idea. It's about the creativity. And it's about --
BROWN: Poor, John.
RIDLEY: I know, I'm out here all my life trying to become somebody. But it is -- it's more the idea of the star. Is it the idea?
And, by the way, I think the real star, it's going to be probably the 18- to 35-year-old audience that really wants to go out and see, as Sharon says, want to go out, want to laugh, have a good time but also have that disposable income that's going to throw it around. It's about them, it's not about me or Tom Hanks or Denzel.
BROWN: Let me ask you quickly, Sharon, we're almost out of time. But talk to me about the effect of Twitter and Facebook and the rise of this -- in terms of their -- I mean, there are some who have argued that that's taking people away from movies, but, in fact, you say it's actually having a different effect. Explain.
WAXMAN: Yes. In fact, we wrote the very first story about that. I'm glad it's been picked up and it's also been borne out by the summer.
There's something called what we call the Twitter effect at the box office which is that word-of-mouth. We always know that word-of- mouth affects movies rapidly now. Right? People texted.
BROWN: Right.
WAXMAN: They tell their friends really fast. But with Twitter it's really compounded. You can send one text message. It goes out to 10 people or 100 people or 1,000 people. So what happens is that opening weekend at the box office which is so critical, now either the numbers go up faster because word-of-mouth is powered by Twitter or it goes down faster.
BROWN: Right.
WAXMAN: So basically, they let their friends know.
BROWN: Everybody likes to tell that one, you know. Yes. WAXMAN: Yes, that's right. So, the movies really have to be good. They have to deliver because you can't fool audiences for more than Friday night anymore basically.
BROWN: Sharon Waxman, John Ridley. Guys appreciate it. Have a great weekend.
WAXMAN: You, too.
BROWN: And thanks for watching, everybody. You have a fabulous weekend as well.
"LARRY KING LIVE" coming up next. Stick around.
