Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Kidnapped Girl Returns Home 18 Years Later; Dangerous Political Environment in America?

Aired August 28, 2009 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: I'm going to be telling you about a story that we just learned about. This is amazing, this e-mail I received moments ago. It is an e-mail that came from a pastor who recently in a sermon said that he wants Sasha and Malia to be fatherless and that he wants Michelle Obama to be a widow.

That's just the beginning of what you are about to hear. I will take you through it. But first, here is what else we are going to have.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not going to move, and you are not going to arrest me!

SANCHEZ: This man chooses to protest a Tea Party protest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will not join people who don't care about people. I wouldn't join anybody who cares about themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: He speaks out, fails to obey an order, and is arrested. What do you say?

This registered sex offender charged with making this little girl his sex slave for 18 years, and all the while, people thought it was this man who took her, her stepfather.

CARL PROBYN, STEPFATHER OF JAYCEE LEE DUGARD: They found Jaycee. And she's alive. So, we both cried for about 10 minutes.

SANCHEZ: I am drilling down on Jaycee Lee Dugard. How is she recovering, how could this sex fiend have gotten away with it?

And one doctor is murdered in church. Now another doctor who performs late-term abortions is targeted. He joins me by phone from inside his clinic, while protesters scream at him from outside.

Drama unfolds on this national conversation for Friday, August 28, 2009.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: All right. Hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez with the next generation of news. This is a conversation. It is not a speech. And it is your turn to get involved.

It is my duty as a journalist to make you aware of a deeply disturbing trend taking that is taking place in our country and how it ironically folds into yet another story that I shared with you just last week.

A CNN source with very close to the U.S. Secret Service confirmed to me today that threats on the life of the president of the United States have now risen by as much as 400 percent since his inauguration, 400 percent death threats against Barack Obama -- quote -- "in this environment" go far beyond anything the Secret Service has seen with any other president.

Now, I need to have you keep in mind today as we add details to this story of what we're going to share with you here. I want to take you back 11 days ago, when Mr. Obama visited Phoenix, Arizona. Do you remember this man? He's one of a dozen or so people who carried guns to that presidential event that we have been checking on.

You may remember that we heard him say on camera that he is prepared to resort to forceful resistance against the Obama administration. Now, today, I want to tell you about the church that that man attends. And, in particular, I am going to play for you parts of the sermon that were delivered from the pulpit on the very day before the president arrived in Phoenix, Arizona.

This is important. This, my friends, I believe you will agree, is chilling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PASTOR STEVEN ANDERSON, FAITHFUL WORD BAPTIST CHURCH: Tonight, I want to preach this sermon. And you have probably never heard a sermon like this before. Actually, you probably have if you have been coming to church here for a while. But you know what? Here is my sermon, why I hate Barack Obama. That's my sermon tonight, because Barack Obama is coming to town tomorrow morning.

Barack Obama is coming to town. And he is going to be here tomorrow morning. Who knew that he was coming to town? I didn't know. I just found out recently with his health care and everything like this.

And I'm going to tell you something. I hate Barack Obama. You say, well, you just mean you don't like what he stands for. No, I hate the person. Oh, you mean you just don't like his policies. No, I hate him.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: There is more and it is much worse. First, I want you to know the voice you heard there was that of Pastor Steven Anderson of the Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe, Arizona. On the day before the president's visit, Mr. Anderson told his parishioners that he hates Barack Obama and wants him dead. This was Anderson from the pulpit saying the president deserves to die for supporting abortion rights. That is what he means when he uses the word violence. All right. Here is some more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: What goes around comes around. You love violence. You hate that which is right. You love to harm others. You love to hurt or kill the unborn or the innocent or the righteous. He is saying, God is going to bring that upon your own head, because whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Now, turn back to Psalm 58 and let me ask you this question. Why should Barack Obama melt like a snail? Why should Barack Obama die like the untimely birth of a woman? Why should his children be fatherless and his wife a widow, as we read in this passage?

Well, I will tell you why. Because, since Barack Obama thinks it is OK to use a salty solution, right, to abort the unborn, because that's how abortions are done, my friend, using salt -- and I would like to see Barack Obama melt like a snail tonight.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Joining me from New York, a man who used to work for the U.S. Secret Service. He is Scott Alswang. He personally guarded Presidents Ronald Reagan and George Herbert Walker Bush.

Thank you, sir, for being with us.

SCOTT ALSWANG, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Thank you, Rick.

SANCHEZ: We are also going to be joined by Mike Brooks, who is standing right here next to me who has been digging down on this story.

Mike, thank you for being here.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Sure.

SANCHEZ: This looks serious. This almost looks like this is coming to the point where we are even beyond maybe where this nation was on November 22 of 1963, when JFK was assassinated, when there was also an environment of hate in this country. When you hear that, what are your thoughts?

ALSWANG: Well, I'm confident that my former organization, the Secret Service, is doing everything they can to keep the president and his family safe. There are a lot of people that like attention in these cases.

SANCHEZ: What about this case? Do you know if the Secret Service has knocked on this pastor's door? Should they be knocking on this pastor's door?

ALSWANG: I am confident that they have already knocked on his door, that through counterpart means in local and state and federal authorities, that this has come to be explained to. And for the media to bring it out, I definitely think that it has come to their attention.

SANCHEZ: Mike, were you going to add something to that?

BROOKS: No, no, I have been talking to some folks. And he has been interviewed by the U.S. Secret Service.

But, boy, he walks the fine line. And, Scott, you will agree with me. I was with the Metropolitan Police who worked on the presidential and vice presidential details when I was there for 26 years. And I can tell you, we used to run into people like this all the time, who knew how to walk that fine line without making a direct threat. And that's what he did...

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Well, hold on a minute. Here is Statute 18, U.S. Code, Section 871. We looked it up today, about threatening the president of the United States.

It is against the law to do so, as I'm sure you both know and I am just recently becoming expert on.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Let me read you the quote: "Whoever knowingly and willfully threatening to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon the president of the United States." That's the way we were able to decipher those words.

It sounds like both of you are saying that this man directly is not doing that. Is that right, Mr. Alswang?

ALSWANG: He is walking a fine line. The problem I have with it is that he seems to be inciting his congregation to go and act in a direction toward the president. And that, at least on a local level, would seem to me to be an inciting charge. And if someone in that congregation had mental disabilities or were prone toward violence or had a direction of interest toward the president or his family, there could be grave consequences.

SANCHEZ: Well, that's interesting. Let me show the viewers something.

Do we have that shot of Chris? Chris is the guy, Chris Broughton. It's taken us a long time to dig down and find out who this guy is. Chris Broughton is that gentleman who had an AR-14, right, Mike?

BROOKS: AR-15 type weapon.

SANCHEZ: AR-15, sorry. There he is right there.

He is outside where the president was speaking. We have found out that Chris was actually in attendance when that sermon was given on the eve of the president's arrival. Now, let's listen to just a little bit more of that sermon, as we consider that chilling thought.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

ANDERSON: You are going to tell me that I'm supposed to pray for the socialist devil, murderer, infanticide who wants to see young children and he wants to see babies killed through abortion and partial-birth (INAUDIBLE) everything? You are going to tell me I am supposed to pray for God to give him a good lunch tomorrow while he's in Phoenix, Arizona?

No. I am not going to pray for his good. I am going to pray that he dies and goes to hell.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: And, by the way, I should add once again that I have reached out to the pastor today. He has agreed that he will join us, he will talk to me on this show, most likely over either the weekend or Monday, was not able to do so today, because we want to reach out to him.

It's interesting as you listen to the last words there. Let me read those back to you. "I am going to pray for his good" -- "I'm not going to pray for his good. I am going to pray that he dies and goes to hell."

Again, most of us law-abiding Americans listen to those words and we start to get worried for our president, whether he is a Democrat or a Republican or what he is.

What is Secret Service's responsibility with people like this? And what are your concerns?

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

C. PROBYN: Nine-one-one?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is 911.

C. PROBYN: On Pineyard Boulevard. My daughter was just kidnapped top of the hill with a gray Ford, a man or woman in the car.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Again, we are going to be joined in just a little bit by that Secret Service agent we were talking to. And also Mike Brooks is going to have more with us on that. But that's another story that we are going to be bringing down on -- bringing you the very latest on.

What's actually going on with that little girl in California? Many didn't believe that her father, her stepfather, when he said that she had been abducted. That girl is now back, her story as well. Stay with us. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: All right, as we go on the story about the threats to the president, there is another story that many Americans are following on this day.

This is a -- Mike, this is a tough story. This is a tough story even to tell. I have a daughter. And I love my daughter very much. She is my only girl, aside from my three boys. And she is obviously very special to me, just as your daughter, I'm sure, is very special to you.

I say this because I could never begin to imagine how horrible it would be to have to make a phone call like this man once had to make. We have got that phone call now. This is a 911 tape. Let's listen to it together. It is 18 years ago.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

C. PROBYN: Nine-one-one?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is 911.

C. PROBYN: On Pineyard Boulevard. My daughter was just kidnapped top of the hill with a gray Ford, a man or woman in the car.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: My daughter Just kidnapped on the top of the -- he watched it happen.

Now, what would I do if somebody did that to my girl or your daughter or, I mean, what somebody did to that little girl in the story that I'm about to tell you about? I don't know, but it is all I can think about after watching that. It's all many Americans can think about after following this story.

Here is the story. Essentially, it is an 11-year-old girl. She is snatched, as you just heard her stepdad describe, right off the street, stolen away in a speeding car as her stepfather tries in vain to catch up on a bicycle and then frantically dials that 911 call.

Now, fast-forward 18 years to now. The girl is now a woman. She is found alive. And that is good. What she went through during those 18 years, though, it's not so good. In fact, it's a nightmare.

We are going to continue to drill down on this story. Let's start with this.

This is a story that was prepared for us by Randi Kaye.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): June 1991, she was grabbed as she walked to her bus stop in South Lake Tahoe, California. Her stepfather, on the driveway, saw his little girl, blonde, blue- eyed, all dressed in pink disappear into a strange car.

(on camera): What do you remember about the day that Jaycee disappeared?

CARL PROBYN, STEPFATHER OF JAYCEE LEE DUGARD: The minute I saw that door fly open, I was trying to jump on my mountain bike and trying to get to her. My neighbor was out front watering. So, I told her, call 911. They had a two-minute head start.

KAYE (voice-over): Those two minutes turned into nearly two decades. There were searches, missing flyers, and reward money. Nothing brought Jaycee back, not even her mother's plea.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, 1991)

TERRY PROBYN, MOTHER OF JAYCEE DUGARD: Jaycee, if you hear mommy, I love you, and I want you to come home tonight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Jaycee finally did come home -- yesterday, when she suddenly walked into a police station outside San Francisco with her alleged kidnappers and told officers who she was.

C. PROBYN: My wildest dreams after 18 years. I mean, this is like a -- the total package, like winning the lotto.

KAYE: Early this morning, Jaycee's stepfather got the call he's been waiting for from Jaycee's mom. They are now separated.

C. PROBYN: She goes, "Are you sitting down?"

And I said, "Yeah."

And she goes: "They found Jaycee." And she paused for a few seconds. She goes, "She's alive."

So, we both cried for about 10 minutes, before we could talk.

KAYE: Jaycee's accused kidnappers, Phillip and Nancy Garrido, are in custody, charges expected tomorrow.

(on camera): Here's how it all unfolded. On Tuesday, a security guard at the U.C. Berkeley campus noticed Mr. Garrido handing out flyers with two young children. A background showed he was a convicted sex offender on parole. When questioned by his parole officer yesterday with his wife, the two children and a woman he called Alyssa at his side, it turned out Alyssa was Jaycee Dugard.

Authorities say he admitted kidnapping her all those years ago and fathering two children with her.

(voice-over): Even though parole officers had visited Garrido's house over the years, nobody ever spotted Jaycee Dugard. Why not?

FRED KOLLAR, EL DORADO COUNTY, CALIFORNIA, UNDERSHERIFF: There was a secondary backyard that is screened from view from literally all around, only accessed through a very small, narrow tarp. Her and the two children were living in a series of sheds. There was one shed entirely sound-proofed, could only be opened from the outside.

KAYE: Phillip Garrido served time for kidnapping and rape in Nevada. Out on parole, he wears a GPS tracking device. The children he fathered now with their father, Jaycee. Eleven and 15 years old, police say they have never been to school or to the doctor. Still, they and their mom are free.

C. PROBYN: I'm just so happy. I haven't gone there.

KAYE (on camera): Where is this emotion coming from?

C. PROBYN: Ah, it's years locked up. I'm an old Vietnam vet that is shell-shocked. I mean, how much nerves do I have, that I would have to go through this?

KAYE (voice-over): Tears of joy, after so many years of sadness.

Randi Kaye, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: You know, there's three big players in this story, this Garrido character who I -- God forgive me for saying this -- but I want to strangle the guy.

BROOKS: Even his father is now saying the guy is basically out of his mind. It's just -- this is an unbelievable story.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: And then there is the stepdad. And when you think about the stepdad, for 18 years, people have been whispering everywhere he went that he is the guy who abducted and made his own stepdaughter disappear.

BROOKS: Yes.

SANCHEZ: The guy is perfectly innocent.

And then you have this little girl who has been -- let's show them what we are talking about. Do we have the -- let's show the map of the house and where she has been living or hidden for the past 18 years. Let's see if we have got that. Google Earth doesn't do us any good. But I think we're going to able to get that now. OK. There is the Garrido residence, right?

BROOKS: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Now, let's see if we can do a little turn. And then you will be able to see what we're talking -- all right, that's the area right there. You see that area right there. All right, there is the home, right? I'm going to circle the home. Now, behind the home, nobody could see this, but there was enough stuff, including shrubs, to hide what was going on back here.

(CROSSTALK)

BROOKS: There was another fence there, Rick.

SANCHEZ: There's another fence right here?

(CROSSTALK)

BROOKS: Yes. Yes. There was another fence right at the entrance going back into the backyard. And the sheriff said apparently there was just a tarp with just a slit in it, so with the trees overgrown around it, so you really couldn't see into the back of there.

SANCHEZ: And can you imagine? She is only an 11-year-old little girl.

BROOKS: And apparently, they brought -- after he snatched her near Lake Tahoe, brought her back to here, and have been living here 18 years, put her in a soundproof shed with a lock on the outside.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: And got her pregnant twice.

BROOKS: Right.

SANCHEZ: Here is my question.

(CROSSTALK)

BROOKS: Fourteen years old, Rick.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: But here's my question to you. This guy had done this before. He has got a record. He was on probation. There is every reason to believe that the people who do these kind of things can't be cured. Is there a lesson being sent here?

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: It just bothers me that he was allowed to do this for 18 years to this little girl.

BROOKS: Right.

He did his time in Leavenworth prison. He was originally sentenced to 50 years. So, he got out in the '80s, did some time. And what has he been doing? Are there any other victims? That's what law enforcement is looking into now, Rick.

And the other thing, he fathered two children with this girl, 11 and 15. So, she was 14 years old.

SANCHEZ: Well, police admitted now that they made a mistake. In fact, let's listen to this sound. We got this in just a little while ago while you and I were starting our conversation. Let's go ahead and play that, guys.

(CROSSTALK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN E. RUPF, CONTRA COSTA COUNTY, CALIFORNIA, SHERIFF: We made contact with Mr. Garrido in the front yard of his home. The responding deputy determined that there was not any criminal misbehavior, warned Mr. Garrido that there were code restrictions with regards to living outside in a residential neighborhood. He did not enter, nor request to enter the backyard.

This is not an acceptable outcome. Organizationally, we should have been more inquisitive, more curious, and turned over a rock or two.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: A rock or two? So, a citizen went to the police and said, there is something strange going on in that man's backyard. There's children back there. The police knock on the door. The guy gives him a cockamamie response and they walk away. And now the police are saying, we screwed up.

BROOKS: Yes. And I have to agree with the sheriff. They should have a done a little bit more. If a complainant calls up and says, Rick, that there are children living in the backyard, and I'm an investigating officer who comes there first and I ask the guy, hey, you mind if I take a look in the backyard? And if says no and doesn't give me consent, OK, well, what are you hiding?

Fine. Go back. Get in touch with your detectives. Interview the people again, exactly what they saw, who they saw, how many kids did they see and go back and get a warrant or have the detectives come out. But apparently, this was, what, I think two years ago, Rick?

SANCHEZ: Oh.

BROOKS: So, you know, again, it is easy to place blame.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Yes, ifs and buts. If frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their butts on the ground every time they jumped, too.

(CROSSTALK)

BROOKS: Ain't that the truth?

SANCHEZ: But I'm serious. This is the kind of thing that we all can learn from and maybe something will come out of it. I just hope she -- I'm glad she is alive.

(CROSSTALK)

BROOKS: No. And the parole officer, how many times had he been out there, registered sex offender. Hey, mind if I take a look around?

And I guarantee you now any time you get somebody who is on parole, and you are dealing with a registered sex offender, I guarantee you that that parole officer will go, hey, do you mind if I take a look around?

SANCHEZ: Yes. I wish they had taken a look around.

BROOKS: Everybody does, Rick.

SANCHEZ: You are going to join us again...

BROOKS: Yes. I will be back.

SANCHEZ: ... and drill down on this thing with the death threats against the president.

BROOKS: Right.

SANCHEZ: We are going to get more information out of the -- on that pastor.

BROOKS: All right, buddy.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

PHILLIP GARRIDO, DEFENDANT: You're going to find the most powerful story coming from the witness, from the victim. You wait. If you -- if you just -- if you take this a step at a time, you are going to fall over backwards. And, in the end you are going to find the most powerful, heartwarming story.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: All right, that is the man who is now admitting to taking that little girl when she was just 11 years old. Hard not to call him a monster, isn't it? All right, alleged monster. You will hear what else he says. We now have an interview with him from prison.

Stay right there. I am going to play that for you when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: You can almost tell by my hair today it's been raining all day in Atlanta, but we are still getting lots of reactions from you and talking to you throughout the day. Didn't miss out on that.

Let's go to the Twitter board if we can. We got a note from Ryan and one from Roxanne.

"Any person who can commit such an evil crime is simply satanic. This woman and the children she bore will suffer forever."

And then Roxanne says, "That poor kidnapped girl is going to be damaged for life."

Everyone seems to be sending us comments like that. It's pretty much unanimous.

All right, I want you now to check out the very last entry of Phillip Garrido's blog. It's from two weeks ago, August 14. It's titled, "Something new has taken place."

He claims that his creator has given him the ability to speak in the tongue of angels, so that he can provide a wakeup call to save the world.

Right.

In another post, he claims to controls sound with his mind.

And now this. Here is where you get to hear this man for yourself. Remember, as you listen to him, that this guy, this animal, is a registered sex offender who was on parole, who met his wife in prison in Leavenworth while serving time for the kidnap and the rape of a woman in 1971. Even his brother calls him a fruitcake, did.

All right, here is what he says from jail.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

GARRIDO: Wait until you read that document. I -- my life has been straightened out. Wait until you hear the story of what took place at this -- at this house.

And you're going to be absolutely impressed. It's a disgusting thing that took place with me in the beginning. But I turned my life completely around. And to -- to be able to understand it, you have to start there.

You're going to find the most powerful story coming from the witness, from the victim. You wait. If you -- if you just -- if you take this a step at a time, you are going to fall over backwards. And, in the end you are going to find the most powerful, heartwarming story.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Again, he is scheduled to be arraigned this hour, maybe by 4:00.

Police open fire on South African soldiers protesting against low wages. We will have the latest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: Welcome back.

When police officers start shooting at soldiers -- police officers shooting at soldiers? You're almost guaranteed that those soldiers will eventually shoot back. That's a story that is coming out of South Africa today, when soldiers protested without a permit about their pay, and police were told to go after them.

Here it is.

(VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: There is a man inside that car you are looking at right there. It's amazing. We have been watching this throughout the day. The police were shooting rubber bullets and tear gas. They say, despite what we see in those pictures that only a handful were injured. South Africa's defense minister is calling the protest unacceptable. The government threatens to fire more than 1,000 soldiers. We do expect to get more on this, by the way.

Some want to put Doctor Leroy Carhart out of business. Who is Doctor Leroy Carhart? He is one of the few remaining doctors in this country who performs abortions, including, in some cases, some late- term abortions. We're going to talk to him exclusively. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Here's another story people all over the country have been following. Police were ready, the clinic and the doctor were on alert, but this abortion protest that some feared might turn into a clash, has apparently fizzled.

Let me tell you what's going on. About 50 people have been turning up outside the Bellevue, Nebraska clinic operated by Doctor Leroy Carhart, most of them carrying signs in support of the doctor. So, where is the other side? Where are those who are going to be protesting there against him, who have said some horrible, threatening things about this doctor?

Well, they decided they are going to show up tomorrow because they didn't want to be there today to face off against the other protestors. Doctor Carhart is on the phone with us now. We were able too reach him.

Doctor, are you there?

DR. LEROY CARHART: I am, Mr. Sanchez. How are you?

SANCHEZ: Good, thanks so much for joining us, sir. Were you worried for yourself today given the fact that one of your colleagues was recently shot and killed in church?

CARHART: Actually, Doctor Tiller was, as I said, other than my wife, my best friend. That was a horrific loss. You know, we, including Doctor Tiller and I, talked many times about this possibility. We tried to prepare for it and do all we can, but any given time, anybody is willing, we think anybody can be a target. You have to just be prepared. We know there is a price for this mission that we need to complete.

SANCHEZ: But there are people out there who would want to know why you perform late-term abortions. I'm specifically using that term. Define it for us first, as you would.

CARHART: OK.

SANCHEZ: And then also please tell us why you think it is legitimate to perform them in some cases?

CARHART: OK. First of all, late-term doesn't have any definition. I prefer to talk about either late second trimester abortions or the early third trimester abortions, which is the ones I think they refer to. Some people feel that even that 14, 12, or 8 weeks are late, you know, too late. You should do it -- everybody has their own ideas.

First of all -- the other message that everyone needs to understand, is that in my lifetime, I have probably done less than 400 of these out of maybe -- well, they are saying 60,000. That may be a vast underestimate of the total number of abortions.

SANCHEZ: I looked it up. And 1 percent or less of all abortions performed in the United States can be considered late-term abortions. A late-term abortion is generally considered something that happens after 24 weeks of pregnancy. What is the reason that you do them?

CARHART: The actual number is that after the 22nd week, 1 percent. After the 24th week, which are 22 menstrual weeks, which is where viability is pretty much agreed to have a possibility, the numbers are like 0.6 percent, after that.

Why I do them or why anybody does them in this part of the country is that that's the gestation that the women find out that there is something wrong with the pregnancy, that it is either not going to be able to go to term, or that it is not going to survive birth? Or that it is --

SANCHEZ: So only because I am running out of time, I'm interrupting you, I really don't wish to. Essentially, what you are saying is because there is a medical reason that either affects the fetus or the mother? Is that what you are saying?

CARHART: Even if it is something that's wrong with the fetus, it is the effect on the mother the reason for termination. Even somebody that has a fetus that's dying that can put them in severe, medical complicated risks. And they don't need to be exposed to those risks.

SANCHEZ: OK. Dr. Leroy Carhart, thank you, sir, for taking time to get on the phone. I know it has been a tough day for you. I understand it might be just as tough tomorrow, because I understand protesters will be out there.

We will be covering both sides of the story. Again, in case you didn't hear us, one side today decided to bow out.

This man, that you are about to see right here, he gets arrested for taking on a Tea Party protest. Was his arrest over what he said, or what he did, or what he failed to do? I'm going to let you hear him out and then watch what happens with the police and the other protesters. Stay right there. This is controversial.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This landfill in Fargo, North Dakota was once a stinky reminder of waste. But city officials recognized a gift in all that garbage.

BRUCE GRUBB, FARGO ENTERPRISE DIRECTOR: We have resources here available to us that formerly weren't being utilized at all. For example, the methane gas was escaping into the atmosphere.

WHITFIELD: Now the methane gas that once raised a stink generates a windfall of cash for the city. More than $1 million of new revenue last year alone from the sale of carbon credit, electricity, and methane gas.

MIKE WILLIAMS, FARGO CITY COMMISSIONER: Our saying is that if you can smell it we can sell it. So that which used to just be right under our nose turned into cash and new energies.

WHITFIELD: Partnership with local industry helped green like this and other renewable energy and conservation initiatives.

JAYSEN SCHOCK, CARGIL FACILITY SUPERINTENDENT: Today the methane is about 30 percent of the fuel needs we need to operate our plant to produce steam.

WHITFIELD: But trash is not the only treasure here in Fargo. Since last fall, the city has generated nearly $400,000 from the sale of waste water to local industry.

Innovations like biodiesel buses and LED traffic lights have residents seeing and saving green.

WILLIAMS: We didn't have to raise the property taxes this last year. It's an example of how taxpayers benefit by conservation efforts and making better use of resources.

Fredricka Whitfield, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: I want to take you now to Brunswick, Georgia. Welcome back everyone. I am Rick Sanchez.

This is Wednesday afternoon. I am taking you back, there are a couple of dozen people that are gathered. They are having a Tea Party protest as is their right as Americans. They are on the side of the road. They are protesting against President Obama's health care plans. They had a permit to protest, by the way.

Here is where this gets interesting. This is where I want Roland Martin standing by. We have Roland Martin back up. We have Roland here. We have Mike Brooks, who is going to be standing by to take us through this as well. I want you guys to watch this with me. I want everyone at home to watch this.

Because this man obviously has something important to say, but then he pushes it and he gets arrested. We are going to talk about that. This man is a minister. His name is Zach Lie (ph). He comes along and he engages the protestors in an argument. He feels they are wrong and that they are excluding Americans like him. That's what he believes. Here is what happens.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not going. If you want to arrest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a city ordinance and you are going to obey it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't care what you have.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands behind your back now. Put your hands behind your back now or I will shoot you with a Taser. Now!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you don't put your hands behind your back now. Put your hands behind your back. Get on the ground and put your hands behind your back, now. Get on the ground. Put your hands behind your back.

You will not do this crap out in the middle of the street, not in the city of Brunswick.

You have a right to protest if you have a permit. You don't have one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: All right. That's interesting. Let me bring both of you guys in. There are two parts to this story. There is the man's right to say what he wants to say.

BROOKS: His first amendment.

SANCHEZ: Right. His first amendment rights -pardon me, I just unplugged myself while I was trying to talk to you.

And then the second part is the police's responsibility to keep order. BROOKS: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Now I should tell everybody, including -- Roland, you there?

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

SANCHEZ: I have watched this many times now. As I watched it, I felt this guy had something to say. He was really angry at these people. He felt like these people were being very exclusive of people like him. Some people would say he may be right.

But then, the police come to him and say, sir, you may want to back off. You don't have a permit, you don't have a permit.

At the very end, I hear the police come to him and say to him, can you come over here with us. Please leave the vicinity, here. Because you are starting to get people angry. Come with us. He fails to do so. That's when they arrested him. Do you believe the police acted improperly, Roland?

MARTIN: No. He should have been arrested.

SANCHEZ: He should have been arrested.

MARTIN: Look, you have the freedom of assembly. You have the freedom of speech but you also have laws. If this was a civil rights march, if this was a march being led by this pastor's church, and there were other individuals who choose to get in their face and shout them down, who did not have the proper permit, then I would expect the cops to also arrest them.

Secondly, when the cops also approached him, and he began to take a swing at them, that's when they brought their Tasers up. This minister was in the wrong based upon his actions. He may have a lot to say, but again, there is a proper way for you to say it.

SANCHEZ: What do you do? You are a cop.

BROOKS: Right.

SANCHEZ: That's why we have you here in this conversation with Roland. You have a protest with a bunch of people who believe in A. Somebody comes along and he believes in B. And he enters that protest and starts arguing with them; and saying, you guys are wrong, you shouldn't be doing this, you are hurting America, or whatever. You are a cop. You are called to the situation. Do you let them argue?

BROOKS: What you try to do, Rick, and you having been in D.C. and worked thousands of demonstrations, that's what we did. I was with the special operations division. We worked all the demonstrations in front of the White House on The Mall, you name it, we've done it.

SANCHEZ: What do you do for a living? I work demonstrations.

BROOKS: Exactly. And that's what we did.

What you try to do is, Sir, would you please go the other - Do you have a permit? No. These people do. Would you go to the other side of the street and let him go across the street and say anything he wants.

SANCHEZ: He can yell all he wants.

BROOKS: Yell, all he wants, but as Roland said. When he starts to engage them, and the officers try to get him away from there to calm the -because he was being disorderly. After that, they have asked him to move away. Then, they have put their hands on him. That's when he took a swing. I think the officers.

Let me point something out, too, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Well, but the reason I want -

BROOKS: In Georgia, is one of the highly - one of the best trained police departments in the country. Because you have the federal law enforcement training center there where I used to work when I retired. You have them come over and go through training. And they also role play.

SANCHEZ: I agree with Roland and you. I don't think I the police officers necessarily did anything wrong. It is the kind of situation that you and me, and Roland, will see more of in the coming months given the general environment in the country. It is kind of good to get the ground rules down now.

Roland, we have 10 seconds.

MARTIN: The ground rules always have been there. Again, though, you want people to act in a responsible manner. The minister was not doing so. That's why he was arrested.

SANCHEZ: If you refuse an order from a police official, you should be arrested, even if you are a Harvard professor.

Thanks, Roland.

MARTIN: I don't understand what that has to do with it.

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: But if you want to have that conversation, we can have it. I'll tell you what, if you are standing in my house, get the hell out of my house.

SANCHEZ: Thank you, Roland Martin.

MARTIN: All right?

SANCHEZ: You wouldn't throw me out of your house, would you? Come on.

MARTIN: If Rick brought that up, I'll through him out of the house. Get out the house, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Thanks, Roland. We'll get back to that one as well, as we often do. Remember the "R&R" segment once a week now, Rick and Roland.

All right. If a model poses in the nude at a museum filled with nude art, is her behavior lewd, or is it art? We have the pictures.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: All right. We told you the beginning of the newscast that our top story was this person in California who had taken a little girl 18 years ago, and then kept her as a sex slave. It's almost a tough story just to get out. We have just learned that he has been indicted, that he has been arraigned, I should say, and was arraigned on 28 counts.

Tell me again, Chris, what the counts are. They're 28 felony counts, and as we get them, we'll take you through them. This announced just moments ago. This just in a little while ago. That's Phillip and Nancy Garrido; 28 felony counts just announced moments ago out in Southern California.

And I don't think there's a person in the United States who thinks that's enough. We'll stay on top of this story for you.

Meanwhile, let me bring you this. Cory Turner is a good guy. He's the kind of guy who mows the lawn of his church, and that's exactly what he was doing when he looked up and saw an Atlanta public school bus with kids screaming on board. And some of the kids were jumping out of the back of the bus. That'll certainly get your attention. And it'll also get you front and center on "Las Fotos Del Dia."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Police say a shirtless man has taken over the bus and now Cory Turner, who's cutting the church lawn, decides to chase it down. The bus thunders down a steep hill and stops. All hell breaks loose.

And that's not all that breaks loose. The suspect, who was already shirtless, is now losing his pants in the struggle. In fact, he loses them, and finally is captured by police in the raw. As for the kids, only two of them were hurt. They just have minor injuries.

If that wasn't bad enough, if Philly woman is already accused of lying about two men allegedly kidnapping her, and her daughter, when she and her child were actually in Disney World. Now the woman's dad embarrasses her even more at her sentencing. He's mad because journalists are trying to cover the story of his daughter, that woman, Bonnie. Imagine that. Here's where he goes after them. He was sentenced to up to two years in prison.

But foto numero uno is this young lady who proudly defends her right to take off her clothes. Police arrested her for posing naked for a photographer at the Metropolitan Museum in New York City. Casey Neil (ph) says the charge against her is ridiculous because the museum is already full of nude art. The only difference is she is alive and, ahem, in the flesh.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Mike Brooks will be here in just a little bit. Get that smile off your face, won't you? We'll talk about serious stuff in a minute.

Two big stories we're following for you. One, 400 percent increase in threats against the president of the United States, so says the Secret Service. Now we have a pastor who is saying that the president's wife and his daughters, that the wife should be left as a widow, and the daughters should lose their father. A pastor?

Mike's talking about that. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez at the world headquarters of CNN. In case you missed the beginning of our newscast today we broke a story about a preacher in Arizona who has said some -- well, something that sounds very threatening about the president of the United States. I want you to listen to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: What goes around comes around. You love violence, you hate that which is right, you love to harm others, you love to hurt or kill the unborn or the innocent or the righteous? God is going to bring that upon your own head, because whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Turn back to Psalm 58 and let me ask you this question -- why should Barack Obama melt like a snail? Why should Barack Obama die like the untimely birth of woman? Why should his children be fatherless and his wife a widow, as we read in this passage? Well, I'll tell you why. Because since Barack Obama thinks it's OK to use a salty solution, right? -to abort the unborn, because that's how abortions are done, my friend. We're using salt. And I'd like to see Barack Obama melt like a snail tonight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: The pastor just e-mailed me before we went on the air today. He told he is not condoning vigilantism. He stated we wrestle not against flesh and blood but, rather, this is a spiritual battle.

We'll have more on this when we come back. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

I want to welcome the Twitter tour coming to CNN headquarters today. There they are, as a matter of fact. Hi, guys. Give us a wave. There they go. Something new we're starting here on Fridays. We're allowing people to come and share a little of their perspective with us here on the set.

Michael Brooks still with us here. Michael, 28 felony counts against this man, down to 30 seconds, but if this guy doesn't spend the rest of his life in prison, there's no such thing as justice.

BROOKS: He'll be going back to Leavenworth for the rest of his life. And I wish they could bury him under Leavenworth. There's just not enough they can do to this guy. After we heard what he said on the radio, today from in prison, just the whole thing --

SANCHEZ: He wants people to know his story.

BROOKS: Oh, everything's going to be wonderful.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

BROOKS: Leavenworth.

SANCHEZ: Stay with me because I want to talk more about this on cnn.com/live. Let's take you now to Washington, D.C., "THE SITUATION ROOM" and my colleague and my friend, Wolf Blitzer.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much.

Happening now, breaking news. Michael Jackson's death is ruled a homicide. The Los Angeles County coroner has just released official findings about the powerful drugs that killed the pop star. Stand by.

Also this hour, the alleged abductors face charges in a bizarre child kidnapping case. We're learning right now more about a woman's 18-year ordeal. Police say she's been living in her captor's back yard.

And mourning for Ted Kennedy's death gives way to a celebration of his life. We're counting down to the music and the memories later tonight.

And we're getting new information about moves to replace him in the United States senate. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.