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American Morning
Two Firefighters Killed in the Line of Duty Battling Wildfires in California; A Look at Jaycee Dugard's Life in Captivity; What Would Life After Captivity Be for Jaycee Dugard; Mortgage Plan Not Living Up to Its Promise
Aired August 31, 2009 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. Thanks very much for being with us on the Most News in the Morning. Monday, the 31st of August. Another month gone by and where did those things all go?
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: That's right.
ROBERTS: Good morning. I'm John Roberts.
CHETRY: I'm Kiran Chetry. And we're following developing news this morning. We're going to be breaking down several stories for you in the next 15 minutes.
We're covering breaking news right now. These wildfires, raging and growing in all directions just outside of Los Angeles. Here are some pictures this morning.
Two firefighters were killed in the line of duty. More than 100,000 homes are threatened and it's a serious situation. We're live on the fire lines with the latest.
ROBERTS: In northern California, we're getting our first look at the backyard prison where Jaycee Dugard was forced to live for 18 years plus the first ever picture of her daughters. Meantime, authorities are digging for more clues on their investigation of Dugard's alleged kidnappers, clues that could link Phillip Garrido and his wife to several unsolved murders.
CHETRY: Former Vice President Dick Cheney on the attack. We're going to hear what he had to say about the Justice Department's decision to investigate after a newly released report said the CIA used not just waterboarding but a handgun and an electric drill to threaten terror suspects.
ROBERTS: But we begin this morning with breaking news and a critical situation unfolding right now in the mountains above Los Angeles. Firefighters are racing to contain a wildfire that has now claimed two of their own. Late last night, officials confirmed two firefighters died when their truck rolled off a road. The two men were among 2,800 firefighters battling the flames that have already torn across thousands of acres and are now dropping ash on cars as far away as downtown Los Angeles. And this morning, thousands of people have been told to get out. Our Rob Marciano is live in La Canada Flintridge this morning with the very latest.
Good morning, Rob.
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, John. The smoke- filled skies yesterday certainly billowing up from this part of northeast Los Angeles. And this fire continues to grow rapidly, really exploding over the weekend for the most part.
And as of last check, over 45,000 acres burned and they are far from getting a handle on this thing. Five percent containment and the incident commander here who's in charge of trying to battle this fire saying it is a perfect storm of fuel, weather and a long-term drought which is not going to end any time soon. As you mentioned, this particular fire threatening structures but over the weekend their worse fears realized as it became deadly.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARCIANO (voice-over): The grim news came late last night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please, prayers for that family of our two brothers that we lost.
MARTIN: Two firefighters killed when their vehicle rolled down a mountainside, part of a treacherous battlefield in these hills north of L.A. where the easiest approach is often from the sky. Helicopters and planes attacking what seems to be an endless wall of fire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm afraid.
MARCIANO: On the ground, more than 10,000 homes sitting in the fire's path.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, all we can do is hope for the best.
MARCIANO: Police blocking off neighborhoods and ordering thousands of people to evacuate, a warning the governor urged them to take seriously.
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA: This is a huge and is a very dangerous fire.
MARCIANO: Not everyone listened. Some like this man stayed behind armed only with a garden hose.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm trying my best.
MARCIANO: But most grabbed what they could and left the fire fighting to the professionals.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Left them the shovels and our hoses.
MARCIANO: But nearly 3,000 firefighters in the fight taking mostly defensive positions digging in and letting the fire come to them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The weather, the fuels and the topography are dictating our firefighting actions. MARCIANO: Their biggest problem this time not wind, but unrelenting heat and too much fuel. The are hasn't seen a major fire in 60 years and is loaded with dense brush. Up north, wind becoming a very serious threat. Eerie pictures from the town of Auburn near Sacramento, where a number of homes and buildings burned to the ground.
That fast-moving fire eating up 500 acres in just a few hours. And back near L.A., neighbors can only gather on corners and wait hoping to avoid the same fate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are still fires here. And like I said, we've got a fire coming down the canyon behind us here, too. So we're pretty much surrounded.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARCIANO: The fire lines stretching from east to west, a full 19 miles. Mostly burning in the Angeles national forest but now getting closer to a more populated areas, and as you mentioned, thousands, tens of thousands of homes are threatened. Also threatened up on Mount Wilson, this is a critical communications point for the Southern California area, over 20 television and radio communication towers on top of some government agency communication starts (ph).
As of last night, the fire commanders said, hey, you know, this thing is going to burn. It's just a matter of time. We have not gotten word that that has happened now. Hopefully, we'll have better news when the sun comes up today.
Let's talk weather. It has been hot. It has been dry, and the fuel here is just tremendous. What they have not seen are the Santa Ana winds. So we we're (INAUDIBLE) for low levels of humidity and extreme heat but not big winds. That's the good news there. As a matter of fact, the fire commander said I've never seen a fire grow this rapidly without the Santa Ana winds to give you an idea of just how ignitable this area is.
We don't expect to see an improvement in the weather today. We don't expect to see an improvement in the weather tomorrow. Maybe more of a bit of a cooling sea breeze on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday but until then, John, weather is not necessarily going to cooperate.
You would think the winds would be a saving grace but in some cases, John, it doesn't blow that smoke around out of the way so you have a visibility issue because there aren't winds. So the winds -- lack of winds help the firefighters but it also hurts them at least when they're trying to battle this thing from the air and they're coming at it certainly from all angles today -- John.
ROBERTS: And the big air quality problems, too, Rob, with that smoke just kind of sinking down in the Los Angeles basin. Rob, thanks so much. Great report. We'll check back with you in just a little while. CHETRY: And another big story that we're following this morning. Authorities are expanding their investigation of Philip Garrido. He's the man accused of kidnapping Jaycee Dugard and holding her hostage for 18 years. Police using cadaver dogs spent much of the day Sunday searching Garrido's home and the property next door. They're looking for clues that could link him to other crimes including numerous unsolved murders in the area.
Meantime, we're also learning more about life -- what it was like for Jaycee Dugard in captivity. Eighteen of her 29 years were apparently spent living in squalor behind Garrido's home in Antioch, California. That's where Ed Lavandera is live for us this morning.
And, Ed, you're getting just a bigger picture of what life was like not only for her but her two daughters that were born while she was in captivity.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's been kind of an amazing thing to unravel here as we learned that Jaycee Dugard has spent the weekend reuniting with family members. Her location is still a tightly kept secret but we understand we're told by relatives that she has been with those family members surrounded also by law enforcement and psychologists. And we're also told that one of the first things she said to her mother after seeing her was, "Mommy, I have babies."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Jaycee Dugard appeared to have settled into an unimaginable routine during her 19 years of captivity. Behind the scene, she lived in this messy backyard prison but to the outside world, she was the creative force behind Philip Garrido's printing business designing business cards for clients all over the town of Antioch. Deepal Karunaratne describes her as intelligent with an attention to detail.
DEEPAL KARUNARATNE, GARRIDO BUSINESS ASSOCIATE: She was always having a very pretty smile on the face. She comes and talking to me and always smiling. And she's a very pretty girl. Very pretty young lady.
LAVANDERA: Even Dugard's daughters appeared to live a normal life. These are pictures of the young girls obtained by CNN. The 11- year-old went by the name of Angel. The 15-year-old, Starlet. We've blurred their faces to protect their privacy.
The pictures were taken two weeks ago at a birthday party for Sheyvonne Molino's daughter. Molino says Garrido called Jaycee and the daughters "my girls" and often brought them to Molino's wreck yard delivering bottles of water on hot days.
CHEYVONNE MOLINO, GARRIDO'S BUSINESS ASSOCIATE: They made it seem like these little girls were like living like wolves or jungle kids in the backyard, you know, dungeon. Perhaps that is it but they didn't give me the visual to me. They were polite. They were well- mannered. LAVANDERA: Molino says Angel and Starlet were huge fans of Hannah Montana. She says Jaycee dreamed of becoming a model, always clean and well dressed. No hint of the tragic reality.
Investigators have expanded the crime scene at Phillip Garrido's home. They brought cadaver dogs to search the property next door. Authorities are looking into whether Garrido could be connected to a string of murders in the 1990s.
JIMMY LEE, SPOKESMAN, CONTRA COSTA SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: What we also know is that Phillip Garrido had access to that property. He used that property and it looks like he lived on that property in a shed.
LAVANDERA: As we've scoured Garrido's hometown looking for clues, we found this in a hardware store. The name Phil G. on a donation card. On August 17th, this receipt shows Garrido bought a pressure switch and then left a $2 donation to the Children's Miracle Network.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA: And, Kiran, what is amazing as we talked to people throughout the weekend here is just how openly Garrido seemed to live, especially with his two daughters. We've heard countless stories of him being seen around town with his two daughters in tow -- Kiran.
CHETRY: So basically hiding in plain view. So, you know, just to refresh our viewers one more time on how were they ultimately found out? How did police ultimately realize that she was there?
LAVANDERA: Well, this started to unravel last week as after Garrido had showed up at the University of California Berkeley campus trying to put on an event there. He had talked to a couple of officers to organize this event on campus. Those officers thought the whole situation with the two daughters and him were suspicious.
They did a background check. Of course, his background as a sex offender emerged. He was called into his parole officers' office a short time later and he showed up with his wife, Jaycee Dugard and the two children and after that, it was all over.
CHETRY: Ed Lavandera for us this morning, thank you. And in just a few minutes coming up, we're going to be talking with clinical psychologist Jeff Gardere about how Jaycee and her children adjust to life after being released from this captivity and how difficult that is going to be as they reconnect with their family.
ROBERTS: We're nine and a half minutes after the hour now. And also new this morning, former Vice President Dick Cheney striking back at President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder for deciding to review detainee interrogation practices by the CIA. In an interview on "FOX News Sunday," Cheney called the move partisan, politicized and dangerous. He also insisted the enhanced interrogations paid off saving thousands of American lives. CHETRY: President Obama gearing up for a final push on health care reform after a week-long vacation on Martha's Vineyard. The first family returned to Washington last night. Congress returns from its summer recess next week. That's September 8th.
ROBERTS: And a New Jersey community sending a strong message to Libyan leader Muammar Gadhafi: You are not welcome here. Hundreds of people, including Governor Jon Corzine, turned out for a rally Sunday in Englewood. Residents were outraged when they learned that Gadhafi planned to stay at an Englewood estate during his U.S. visit next month to address the United Nation's general assembly. But officials now say that he is going to stay in New York instead. Thirty-eight people from New Jersey died in the Pan Am 103 bombing over Lockerbie, Scotland.
CHETRY: Well, it's going to be a long road to readjustment for Jaycee Dugard, her two children and her family who for years thought that she was missing or perhaps dead. How all of this is going to take place, we're going to be speaking with clinical psychologist, Jeff Gardere, after the break.
It's 11 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. It's 13 minutes past the hour now.
A tearful reunion after 18 years in captivity. Jaycee Dugard's first emotional words to her mother, "Mommy, I have babies." Jaycee back home with her real family but it's a tough road ahead right now adjusting to life after spending 18 years with the couple that allegedly kidnapped her when she was 11.
Jeff Gardere, a clinical psychologist, he joins us now to talk more. Thanks so much for being with us this morning.
JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: My pleasure. Good morning.
CHETRY: It's a difficult story. It's a disturbing story actually to talk about.
GARDERE: Horrible story, yes.
CHETRY: And there seems to be just so many elements but let's start with basically how it is that she readjust. We heard right now that she's with psychiatrists with her family.
GARDERE: Yes.
CHETRY: Her mother actually needed her own sister to come there for support.
GARDERE: Her stepsister, yes.
CHETRY: Right. And then authorities at the same time because they have to see whether or not, you know, she's OK to be the mother of these two kids. How does all of this start to take place, this reintegration?
GARDERE: Well, a lot of it happens simultaneously. We do know that she did see her mother. There was this reunification, and that's the best thing. But at the same time, we have to have a debriefing.
The law enforcement needs to know what happened in this particular case so they can have the proper charges and so on. And, of course, Garrido has been charged but they want to get as much information as possible.
The key here, though, Kiran, is you can't push her too quickly. We learned that with Elizabeth Smart, that if you try to rush them into giving information that it may be deleterious to their mental health.
CHETRY: Do they actually, I mean, still some sort of allegiance? I mean, in this case, even though we all think we can't believe this is what she went through and how did she stay or were there opportunities where maybe she could have left? We don't know any of this yet.
GARDERE: Yes.
CHETRY: But does she feel perhaps some allegiance to the man and his wife?
GARDERE: Absolutely. And we've seen this in other cases. Again with Elizabeth Smart, we saw that. With Fritzl's (ph) daughter, Josef (ph) Fritzl's daughter, Elisabeth (ph), we saw that too.
CHETRY: Right.
GARDERE: There are the divided loyalties. Look, the bottom line here is this young girl was taken. She was taken when she was 11 years old. A critical point of her maturation, subjected to rape, torture, brainwashing, delivered two children. But at times she was shown acts of kindness, of course, for Garrido's own purposes but a victim who was mentally unstable...
CHETRY: Right.
GARDERE: ... who's been brainwashed, sees this as for her own mental health to benefit her. It's a misinterpretation.
CHETRY: Right.
GARDERE: But those acts of kindness that she misinterprets helps her to bond with this captor but it's all a defense mechanism. It's what keeps her alive. She'll do whatever it takes in order to stay alive. This person has the power of life and death over her.
CHETRY: So does Jaycee Dugard then, I mean, have you seen cases where somebody that's gone through something comparable, can they live normally? Can they learn to trust and love again? GARDERE: It's a very long road ahead for them. They learn to function properly. They learn to have a productive life. They learn to grow from this horrific experience but what we consider normal will never happen for Jaycee Dugard and for her two daughters who have been described as being somewhat robotic in their actions.
I'm afraid that they perhaps have been brainwashed, also. I think it's quite obvious, actually. And I'm also concerned that maybe with even the 15-year-old daughter whether there were any kinds of sexual relationships with Garrido.
CHETRY: And that she was molested (ph) as well.
GARDERE: Yes.
CHETRY: What happens with this guy? I mean, a lot of outrage stems from the fact that he was already charged, right?
GARDERE: Yes.
CHETRY: He was supposed to serve 50 years for prior situation, right?
GARDERE: Right, exactly.
CHETRY: Sexual predator.
GARDERE: And he only served -- right. And he only served ten years.
CHETRY: Ten years.
GARDERE: That's right. And he was out.
CHETRY: And then also, what about how much -- I mean, does sex offenders ever get reformed? There are some who argue -- Polly Klaas's father, Marc, says it's impossible.
GARDERE: Yes. It is very, very difficult especially for those criminals who have been sex offenders almost all of their lives. What we're finding is that recidivism rates are extremely high. Some people say, well, castrate them. Well, that doesn't do anything but make them much angrier.
So we don't know what's going to happen. I think this will change parole laws, probation laws and so on. But I think at the end of the day, this family must have therapy on a daily basis.
CHETRY: Yes.
GARDERE: Be reintegrated but most importantly, we need to be there for them as a support. Most importantly their family needs to be there as a support and we can't push them into wellness. It will take time. It will take a very long time.
CHETRY: Right. It is a long road ahead, for sure. Jeff Gardere, always great to take your take.
GARDERE: My pleasure, Kiran. Thank you.
CHETRY: John.
ROBERTS: So a lot has been said about health care in the past couple of weeks. Some of it true, some of it not true. We're going to run some of the more interesting statements through the truth-o- meter when Bill Adair joins us coming up in just a couple of minutes here in the Most News in the Morning.
It's now 18 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Twenty-one minutes after the hour. Christine Romans here "Minding Your Business" this Monday morning and all kinds of people saying all kinds of things about all kinds of issues, business, health care wise.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Let's talk about the National Association of Business Economics. This is what the president of that organization said following a survey they took of big business -- not CEOs but economists. This is almost certainly one of the fastest-moving and most controversial economic policy environments we have experienced in a generation. Don't we all feel that way? The most complicated and important period.
This is what they found, these business economists. Support for the fed and its actions but they're divided on what the fed should do next and how it should reverse all of this emergency stimulus into the economy and unease in general about government spending. So this is what they said.
Essentially, too much fiscal stimulus, 35 percent say there's just too much government spending. Do they expect even more stimulus? About 42 percent see even more government spending ahead. But 76 percent of them say we don't need it. We don't need.
CHETRY: Almost consensus on that part at least.
ROMANS: Yes, exactly. Now on health care reform, they were asked about health care reform. No consensus there, and frankly, no consensus on how best to fix health care. And when listed, all of the major proposals, the answer called other was the top choice of these economists and, frankly, little optimism that they're going to be able to control costs and improve access.
Will it expand access? All of these proposals on the table, 49 percent said yes. Will it decrease quality and increase cost? Forty- seven percent said yes.
So you can see that the top minds who study economics as it applies to business are concerned about the spending part of the equation here. Overall, they like what the fed has done but now we're all looking forward to how the fed is going to rein it back in and that's something that everybody has been talking about.
CHETRY: All right. So, by the way, does their opinion matter? I mean, are they watching it at the White House and the administration with all these economists there?
ROMANS: Does their opinion matter? Yes. I mean, it's a well- respected group, yes. And these are people who are, you know, who are basically saying what the people who create jobs are business, well, used to be. Actually now government is creating jobs but in a healthy economy business creates the jobs. So these are what the economists who are advising business are saying. So, yes, it does matter.
CHETRY: All right. Our "Romans' Numeral" this hour, what is the number?
ROMANS: It is 8,170,000. And I'm not going to reveal to you the answer right now. I'm going to reveal to you the answer in 15 minutes or so when I do a story about recession gardening, the real green shoots in the economy that some happen to be recession gardening. And the number is 8,170,000. If you like to, you know, take a little guess, you can do it at CNN.com/amFIX.
ROBERTS: All right.
ROMANS: Or on Twitter at Christine Romans.
ROBERTS: Looking forward to that.
ROMANS: All right.
ROBERTS: Christine Romans "Minding Your Business" this morning. Christine, thanks.
CHETRY: All right. Well, we're going to be talking more about a CNN exclusive that's coming up. It's a mortgage situation not living up to its promise.
Forty-two minutes after the hour. I'm sorry. Twenty-two minutes past.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. It's 26 minutes after the hour.
Making your home more affordable, that was the idea behind President Obama's plan to help people struggling with mortgage payments that in some cases eat up more than half of their monthly income. But in an exclusive report, CNN's Jessica Yellin found this program isn't always helping folks get out of their mortgage mess.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: John, Kiran, the program is called "Making Home Affordable" and President Obama unveiled it as a lifeline to homeowners drowning in mortgage debt. But we met with one Arizona couple who feels like they've been thrown overboard and a CNN investigation reveals they're not the only one.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YELLIN (voice-over): Mark and Angela Kollar think they still have one shot left at holding on to their home.
MARK KOLLAR, HOMEOWNER: You and I will be discussing Making Home Affordable plan?
YELLIN: The president unveiled the Making Home Affordable program in March to rescue four million Americans drowning in mortgage debt. A CNN investigation found the program is not always living up to its promise.
ANGELA BACCA-KOLLAR, HOMEOWNER: I don't wish this on anybody and I know we're not the only ones.
YELLIN: Here is how it's supposed to work. In return for taking all those bailout billions, the banks agreed to give a little back. Qualifying homeowners would see their mortgages slashed to 31 percent of their monthly income. But that's not what the bank offered the Kollars.
M. KOLLAR: You're holding my feet to the -- who is your supervisor there today?
YELLIN: The couple makes $3,000 a month so their new Making Home Affordable loan should be 31 percent of that, about $1,000 a month. The offer they got -- $2,892, about 98 percent of their income.
M. KOLLAR: Now I feel like, you know, we've been -- what's the proper word? Screwed?
YELLIN (on camera): They're not alone. Speaking to housing counselors, consumer advocates and homeowners, we found endless complaints of banks rejecting apparently eligible homeowners or pressuring them into loans they can't afford. But by far, the most common complaint is that lenders keep giving homeowners the run around. Dropping calls, losing paperwork, all while the foreclosure clock keeps ticking.
(voice-over): The mortgage industry's top lobbyist says these are the growing pains of a massive program. Lenders are still hiring staff to handle all the application and he believes most complaints are from people who aren't eligible for the plan. Overall, he says it's a success.
JOHN COURSON, CEO, MORTGAGE BANKERS ASSOCIATION: This is a program where the interest of the homeowner and the interest of the lender are aligned because everybody wants to avoid that foreclosure and keep that loan on the books and the borrower in the home.
YELLIN (on camera): And how well is the program working?
COURSON: The program is working very well. YELLIN (voice-over): But even Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner who oversees the program has demanded lenders do better. The latest numbers, 230,000, fewer than six percent of eligible homeowners have new loans through the program and some banks with the biggest bailouts have the lowest participation rates.
ANGIE MORESCHI, CONSUMERWARNINGNETWORK.COM: It comes down to money and it does not appear to be in the banks' financial interest in the long run to actually do these loan modifications and that's the sad reality that we are dealing with.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YELLIN: But the banks disagree and say they're trying to make the program work. As for the Kollars, Bank of America declined our request for an interview. A spokesman tells us they based their offer to the Kollars on bad information from their housing counselor. And after our inquiry, they have reopened the Kollars' application and temporarily offered them a reduced payment while their case is under review -- John, Kiran.
CHETRY: Great story, Jessica. It just goes to show you how, you know, you think that a program is going to help you out and as that guy said, it's like 98 percent of his monthly income.
ROBERTS: I think it said it all right along the bottom of the screen there.
Thirty minutes after the hour. Checking our top stories now. Right now, a dangerous wildfire racing across the hills above Los Angeles. The inferno is feeding on acre after acre of bone-dry brush. Last night we learned that 2,800 firefighters working hard to bring the flames under control lost two of their own. Officials say they died when their truck rolled off a road.
CHETRY: Colombia's President Alvaro Uribe is now being treated for swine flu. Government health officials say that President Uribe started feeling ill Friday. It's the same day that he attended the South American summit in Argentina. The 57-year-old is not considered a high-risk patient. He's now being treated at the presidential residence in Bogota.
ROBERTS: And a major problem is reportedly facing the U.S. intelligence community. "The Washington Times" reporting there was a lack of translators who specialize in regional Afghan languages critical to fighting terrorism eight years after the September 11th attacks.
The Senate Intelligence Committee found the nation's ability to understand these languages is, quote, "essentially nonexistent." The CIA says it's making progress but more needs to be done.
No matter which side of the fence you sit on about health care reform, one thing that has not changed as we end this make-or-break month, the mistruths that are out there. So this morning, we are putting them to the ultimate test. We are running them through the Truth-O-Meter. Joining me now is Bill Adair. He is the founder and editor of PolitiFact.com.
Bill, good Monday morning to you.
BILL ADAIR, EDITOR, POLITIFACT.COM: Good morning, John.
ROBERTS: So, our first statement comes from Florida Congresswoman Ginny Brown-Waite, who sent out a mailer with bullets points opposing the Democrats' health care reform plans. One of the bullets said -- let's put it up on the screen here, quote, "Any government-run public plan forces more employers to drop employee coverage due to rising costs and pay an additional 8 percent payroll tax for each worker."
You ran this one through the Truth-O-Meter, what did you find out about it and why?
ADAIR: We gave this one a "Barely True" on the Truth-O-Meter and the reason is that it's misleading in a couple of ways. First of all, she characterizes it as the government-run public plan. It's actually the overall plan which is not government-run that relies on employers continuing to provide health insurance coverage as they do now. And the expectation is that because of a mandate, they'll continue to do so.
So it's misleading in that way. It's also misleading in that it says that people would be forced out of the plan. Actually, just the opposite. The 8 percent penalty that she refers to is to force employers to provide the health insurance.
So, she gets a "Barely True" on the Truth-O-Meter.
ROBERTS: All right. The next statement comes from California Senator Barbara Boxer, also talking about health care. Let's listen to what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARBARA BOXER (D), CALIFORNIA: It's costing every American who's insured $1,100 to pick up the cost of uncompensated care that goes on at the emergency room.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: $1,100 to every insured person to pick up the cost of uncompensated care at the emergency room. We do know that the cost of indigent health care, uncompensated health care, at the emergency room is shared among people who are in the insurance pools but is it really $1,100?
ADAIR: No, it's not. We gave this a "Barely True" on the Truth- O-Meter.
You're right, John. It is shared in the sense that when people get this care that the cost of that is absorbed by some mix of doctors, hospitals and all of us who pay insurance, but Senator Boxer way overstates the number. She said every American pays $1,100.
Actually, the studies that she's quoting show every American pays about $400. And those studies have been questioned about whether they allocate the cost correctly. Some of the -- one study by Kaiser says that the expectation is that doctors and hospitals actually may absorb more than those studies go.
So that one gets a "Barely True" on the Truth-O-Meter.
ROBERTS: Did you find any citations of the $1,100 figure that she talked about?
ADAIR: Yes. And that's -- it is true that Families USA, an advocacy group, has estimated $1,100 per family, but what she said is per person and, of course, there's a big difference there.
ROBERTS: She said it is costing every American who is insured.
OK. The last sound bite comes from Michael Steele, chairman of the Republican National Committee. He's talking about veterans' health care, talking about particularly this idea of end-of-life issues and a pamphlet that the VA put out some 10 years ago. Let's listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL STEELE, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Let's look at the situation with our veterans where you have a manual out there telling our veterans, you know, stuff like are you really a value to your community? You know, encouraging them to commit suicide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Encouraging them to commit suicide.
That might sound a little extreme. You ran it through the Truth- O-Meter. What it did say?
ADAIR: We did. And this one got our lowest rating - "Pants on Fire."
And this is just ridiculously false, what he says here. He's referring to a brochure. It's a 51-page brochure that is supposed to help veterans deal with end of life issues. Now, the use of it has been suspended because of questions about whether the wording in some cases is inappropriate.
But we read the whole brochure and it does not encourage veterans to commit suicide. In fact, it explicitly says that assisted suicide is illegal.
This is part of the Republicans' effort to try to paint the Democrats as being insensitive on end-of-care issues. That may be a legitimate question to debate, but in this case this is just ridiculously false and it gets a "Pants on Fire" on the Truth-O-Meter.
ROBERTS: Bill Adair from PolitiFact.com with his Truth-O-Meter. It's great to see you every Monday morning. We really appreciate it, Bill.
ADAIR: Thanks, John.
ROBERTS: All right. Take care. See you again soon.
CHETRY: Well, here's one hobby that's certainly been growing because of the economic downturn. It's gardening. Making your own vegetables, growing them themselves.
Christine Romans take a look at whether or not it really is economical.
Thirty-six minutes past the hour.
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CHETRY: Thirty-nine minutes past the hour. Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
You know, more Americans these days are finding ways to save money on household expenses and gardening has been a creative way to try to beat the recession.
Christine Romans is looking at why gardening is such a hot hobby right now.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: And it really is. I mean, I was surprised by this.
Earlier in the summer, we ran through numbers to find out what people are buying and one of the things they were buying was seeds, buying seeds in a recession. We kept following up to try to find out did they really follow through and they did. I mean, this summer, burgeoning with new gardens across the country.
And our "Romans' Numeral" -- 8,170,000. This number is -- we have a guess on this one.
CHETRY: Yes, we did. Actually, George Hague wrote in to Twitter and he said $8,170,000 is the number Americans saved -- I mean, the dollar amount Americans save by growing their own fruits and vegetables.
ROMANS: It could be. I bet even more than that. It's actually the number of Americans harvesting food from a garden for the very first time. Think of that -- going for the very first time to garden. That is a very good guess. And you know, Google saw a spike in searches for canning recipes earlier this summer. Here's why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are some nice ones back there. ROMANS (voice over): Here are the real green shoots in the economy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here, Rebecca.
ROMANS: Karen Simonson (ph) and Grisella Feliciano work together in the business office at the Queens Botanical Gardens. Before this spring, there wasn't a green thumb between them.
GRISELLA FELICIANO, GARDENER: Since we didn't know how to do it, we figured that we do it together, it would, you know, save time and just be easier for both of us.
ROMANS: With help from Simonson's daughter, Rebecca, they found abundance in a recession.
REBECCA AGURTO, GARDENER: I planted the tomatoes and the spring beans and the peppers.
ROMANS: Theirs is one of 43 million food gardens this year. The National Gardening Association says 19 percent of the households growing their own fruits, vegetables and herbs are doing it for the very first time.
Vegetable seeds sales are up 30 percent. Ball, the popular maker of canning supplies also saw sales jump 30 percent. And one of the oldest seed catalog companies, a 19th and early 20th century stalwart is finding new and newly frugal 21st century gardeners.
GEORGE BALL, W. ATLEE BURPEE & COMPANY: It's not that a vegetable is going to make you money. It's that you're not going to be spending that money in the produce section or the farmer's market or the supermarket.
If you spend, say, $100 on vegetable seeds, you're going to save $2,500 on average in savings at the supermarket. That's money that you can spend on your child's college fund or, you know, buy something or get the house down payment further advanced.
ROMANS: Saving money, taking control, getting back to basics and bringing green to your greens.
DAVID ELLIS, AMERICAN HORTICULTURAL SOCIETY: You're controlling how you're growing it. And often home grown produce which you can pluck right off the vine is, you know, really much tastier than the vegetables that have been harvested a couple of weeks ahead in the supermarket.
ROMANS: New gardener Simonson says fresh and pesticide-free produce is what got her gardening in the first place.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Having my daughter, I've become a little bit more conscious about, you know, what she eats. And being that, she's 8 years old right now, I thought it was a good activity for us to do together.
ROMANS: And recession or no, next year they'll do it again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Now doing it together, that was another thing we heard again and again when we talk to people. It was doing something together because maybe you're not going to be taking the trip this summer. You're not going to be doing something that costs a lot of money. So you're trying to stay home, you're trying to use what you've got and the investment not necessarily just in the money, but also in the experience. It's one of those things you see in recessions. People kind of take a little closer look closer to home, and that's what we were seeing here.
CHETRY: Pretty neat.
ROMANS: That's another family. Actually, they tilled up the whole backyard, the entire backyard. A woman came -- she came home from work and said, oh my God, does my husband hired somebody to come and till the whole thing up? And they've got, you know, an acre of produce and now they're swimming in it.
CHETRY: That's why they need the canning recipe, right?
ROMANS: Exactly. Exactly.
CHETRY: You've got a whole (INAUDIBLE). What will you do?
ROMANS: Exactly. I know.
ROBERTS: That's a neat story. Christine, thanks so much.
ROMANS: All right.
ROBERTS: So you want to get in to a good college? What do you need?
You need good grades, need good score on the S.A.T. or the A.C.T., but there's something else that a lot of colleges are going to require for admission this year. We'll tell you what that is.
Looking specifically at the University of Maryland, but it's a trend that's increasing across the country.
Forty-three minutes now after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
A live look at Washington, D.C. right now, where it's 65 degrees. You can tell summer is coming to an end. Going up to 75 degrees today. It's going to be mostly sunny there, though. So it will be a nice day.
Actually, Washington is much better when it's in the 70s rather than the low 90s, right? And Washington is where we start this morning as we fast forward through the stories that will be making news later on today.
This morning at 8:00 Eastern, Senator Ted Kennedy's grave site will again be open for public viewing at the Arlington National Cemetery. The site features a two-and-a-half-foot cross and a marble marker.
In this final make-or-break week for health care reform, there are a number of town halls taking place across the country today, including Philadelphia and Olympia, Washington.
We, of course, will be watching them all, and we'll let you know if they get heated or if they stay nice and calm. Rational discussion.
And it's another story that we're going to be watching all day today -- Hurricane Jimena. It's now a dangerous category IV storm churning just off of Mexico's Pacific Coast. A hurricane watch in effect for the southern portion of the Baja, California, peninsula.
So it looks like it could make a direct hit there, and then there's something else brewing out there in the Atlantic Ocean that bears watching the hurricane center says high potential of becoming some sort of tropical storm.
CHETRY: All right. Well, we'll have to check that out.
Meanwhile, Rob is over on the fire lines. They could use some of that rain out there, for sure.
Well, how about this one. It was a big come back. It looked like it was over for these little kids from Chula Vista, California. They ended rallying from a 3-0 deficit to beat Chinese Taipei. This was the Little League World Series. The final 6-3. It is the fifth straight year that a U.S. team has won the Little League championship, but hasn't happened since the 1960s that it was the fifth straight year.
OK, California now has sixth Little League World Series title, and that's more by the way than any other U.S. state. So congratulations.
ROBERTS: There's a new wrinkle being thrown in the debate over health care reform, and the uninsured, and who needs to have insurance. Well, there's a new requirement at some colleges across the country.
We'll tell you about that coming right up.
Forty-eight minutes after the hour.
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CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
It's 50 minutes past the hour right now.
And if you have a son or daughter leaving the nest, heading to college, you know, there's a lot to think about during back to school time. But besides the required readings, the papers, a lot of freshmen are also required to have health insurance.
CNN's Brianna Keilar is live in Atlanta.
And you found one school, actually, my alma matter, offering up fairly affordable coverage for the kids.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, like many other colleges, Kiran, the University of Maryland was able to negotiate a pretty inexpensive plan with a private insurer because college-age students are typically a healthy bunch. But let's face it, on top of tuition and housing, additional expenses can be tough for some parents and students to shoulder.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KEILAR (voice over): Freshmen move-in day at the University of Maryland. Thousands of students jamming into teeny tiny dorm rooms.
This scene repeats itself every August here but something is different this year. Like a growing number of colleges, UNV is requiring students to have health insurance starting with this freshman class.
Do you think there's a lot of germs?
MELISSA EPSTEIN, STUDENT: Absolutely. I brought a big container of hand sanitizer and I thought I'm using it.
KEILAR: Dr. Gail Lee, the clinical director of the school's health center, says without coverage students can suffer academically.
DR. GAIL LEE, CLINICAL DIRECTOR, UNIV. OF MARYLAND HEALTH CR: It can affect their ability to stay in school. It can affect the fact that they might have to go to work to pay off their medical bills.
KEILAR: Historically, Lee says, 1 in 15 UNV students have been uninsured. But now if freshmen don't prove they have health insurance, the university automatically puts them on its student plan.
LEE: It covers a lot of the things that we think are important for students. For example, it covers immunizations. It would cover them if they are a study abroad student.
KEILAR: For previously uninsured students, it's an added cost of about $100 per month, increasing in-state tuition and fees by 8 percent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move-in day.
KEILAR: But for some families like the Epsteins, it's a bargain alternative to keeping their freshman daughter, Melissa, on the family's out of state insurance.
(on camera): Why the student plan for Melissa?
HOWIE EPSTEIN, MELISSA'S FATHER: We were able to save probably about $400 a month by putting her on a separate plan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KEILAR: A really good deal for the Epsteins.
But what about those poor students for whom tuition is already a struggle to pay?
Well, the university says it is looking into ways to subsidize insurance for those students, but for now they have to cover the costs with loans if they can't afford to pay out of pocket - Kiran.
CHETRY: Wow. That's interesting.
By the way, Maryland hasn't changed a bit. The dorm rooms look exactly the same.
KEILAR: Tiny. Teeny tiny.
CHETRY: I know. But if you -- so in those situations where you're saying that, you know, the health care is too expensive and they're struggling just to pay their tuition, are they allowed to just use the health clinic and pay as they go or they can't do that anymore?
KEILAR: Well, they can use the health center there but that's really for primary care. You know, if you were to have a cold or something that wasn't that big of a deal, you can go to the health center.
The issue here and why the university really wants students to have this health insurance is when they need to see a specialist for things like hypertension or maybe even some eye injuries.
That's what one of the things Dr. Lee said students had faced before. They need to be able to see a specialist and sometimes those services -- they just don't have the resources for them at the health center.
CHETRY: Got you. All right. Great job.
Brianna Keilar, great to see you this morning. Thanks so much.
KEILAR: Go turtle.
CHETRY: Exactly.
Fifty-three minutes after the hour.
ROBERTS: So, the former vice president now criticizing the current president again. We'll tell you what Dick Cheney had to say this time and why he is so incensed.
Stay with us.
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ROBERTS: Fifty-six minutes after the hour.
Just can't help yourself when that song plays.
Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
Former Vice President Dick Cheney lashing out again at President Obama, this time for investigation of interrogation tactics used by the CIA during the Bush administration.
Here's part of what Cheney had to say on "Fox News Sunday."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's an outrageous political act that will do great damage long term to our capacity to be able to have people take on difficult jobs, make difficult decisions without having to worry about what the next administration is going to say.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Our Elaine Quijano is gauging reaction from the administration this morning. She's at the White House for us today.
Good morning, Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, John.
What we are still waiting to hear back from senior officials for their reaction to the former vice president's remarks. But, certainly, his comments are raising continued questions about the use of so-called enhanced interrogation techniques.
Now, the former vice president's remarks come just days after that 2004 CIA inspector generals report was released. That report among other things laid out how CIA interrogators went beyond the rules that were in place, rules on controversial techniques like waterboarding.
In that interview yesterday, Cheney called those techniques good policy. He said he was comfortable in cases where interrogators went beyond the authorized rules. And he said with the attorney general now pointing a prosecutor to review some cases, President Obama is going back on his word to look forward and not backwards.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHENEY: But my concern is that the damage that will be done by the president of the United States going back on his word, his promised about investigations of CIA personnel have carried out those policies is seriously going to undermine the moral, if you will, of our folks out at the agency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: Now, the president himself and senior officials have in recent days and weeks insisted that the attorney general operates independently of the White House. Again, we are still waiting word for some reaction. Obviously, this is going to be a hot topic today here at the White House - John.
ROBERTS: So, you say, Elaine, we are awaiting word on some reaction. Do we expect that the White House will have an official statement on this, or will they just kind of let it slide?
QUIJANO: Well, it's interesting. That's a good question. On the one hand, they may not want to fan the flames, if you will. And engage in some kind of back and forth with the former vice president. At the same time, there are still continued questions that some are asking and saying are quite legitimate such as, why now? Why five years later after career prosecutors with no political access to grind the Justice Department if they've already gone through the evidence made their decision, why now does the administration feel it's necessary to review those cases?
So there's still a lot of lingering questions. We'll wait and see whether or not the administration feels compelled to respond to the former vice president's remarks - John.
ROBERTS: I know you keep watching that for us. Elaine Quijano at the White House this morning.
Elaine, thanks so much.
