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American Morning
Obama May Present Own Health Care Plan; Wildfires Keep Raging in S. California; U.S. Journalists Discuss N. Korea Captivity; Alleged Kidnapper's Wife Charged; Baltimore Charter School Teachers Fighting Pay Raise
Aired September 02, 2009 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: That brings us to the top of the hour. It's Wednesday, it's the 2nd of September. Thanks for joining us on the most news in the morning. I'm John Roberts.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kiran Chetry. Glad you're with us.
And we're following several big stories for you this morning. Here's a look at the breakdown coming up in the next 15 minutes.
As John was mentioning, could President Obama be getting set to ditch the controversial public option part of this health care plan? It was originally billed as a heart of the whole plan. The president reportedly planning a speech to lay out the specifics of any changes, and our Elaine Quijano has details coming up.
ROBERTS: And the California wildfire is now burning dangerously close to Los Angeles. There are new mandatory evacuation orders in effect and new worries about wind making the efforts to fight it even tougher. It's already torched an area the size of Chicago.
Our Rob Marciano is live on the front lines of the fire this morning.
CHETRY: One neighbor calls her the "real monster" in the Jaycee Dugard abduction case. What was the convicted sex offender's wife doing all the years while a child was living in captivity in her backyard? Nancy Garrido's lawyer will be here live to tell her part of the 18-year horror story.
ROBERTS: Plus our special series "Educating America" looks at a fight over money at a charter school that could have a ripple effect across the country. Carol Costello shows you where teachers are being forced to get a raise, but maybe at the cost of the students.
CHETRY: We begin the hour, though, with some new hints coming from the White House this morning that President Obama could ditch the public option.
This was originally billed as the best way to drive down health care costs in the future. The president will meet with Democratic leaders when Congress comes back from recess. That's happening next week. But he is already meeting with his inner circle and perhaps considering a major speech to lay out some specifics of his plan. Our Elaine Quijano has been working her sources at the White House. She joins us live this morning with new details. Hi, Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Kiran. And in fact, just moments ago, White House Senior Adviser David Axelrod did confirm to CNN that President Obama is considering a major speech on health care when he returns from his vacation. The president, as you know, heading to Camp David today.
But this speech would detail what exactly it is the president would like to see as part of a health care reform bill. What form might that take? The speech itself could be perhaps an Oval Office address, could as well be a speech before a joint session of Congress, unclear at this point.
However, this is certainly significant, this idea of a major speech, because, as you know, Kiran, the president up until now has simply put forth principles that he would like to see lawmakers follow as they try to craft a bill.
But now senior adviser, again, David Axelrod saying that we're entering a new season. It's time to synthesize and harmonize these strands and get this done - Kiran.
CHETRY: Very interesting. It comes after a chorus of columnists and pundits and other saying wait a minute, he's got to get back into the fray and sell this a little bit more because he's great at doing that when he speaks to the American people.
So it will be interesting to see how this takes shape and what form any potential speech takes. You'll be bringing us those details of course. Thanks, Elaine.
QUIJANO: Sure.
ROBERTS: Also brand new this morning, we witnessed their emotional tear-filled homecoming from North Korea, and now American journalists Laura Ling and Euna Lee are telling their stories, sharing new details about their arrest and how they were treated by the secretive state.
CNN's Alina Cho is following the story for us. She joins us live this morning. And they're saying things that we weren't aware of.
ALINA CHO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Once you start reading this, you really cannot put it down.
ROBERTS: Interesting.
CHO: Yes, it is. And we've all been waiting for it, guys.
Euna Lee and Laura Ling have broken their silence about that fateful day back in March when they were captured and ended up prisoners of the North Korean government. They are telling their story in a letter published in today's "Los Angeles Times." In it they admit to crossing into North Korea for "no more than a minute," but they say that minute was one they deeply regret.
Now this all started back on March 17. The journalists were shooting a documentary for Current TV on human trafficking. They were following the route that North Korean defectors take to cross over from North Korea into China. It's along a frozen river right on the border.
Lee and Ling were working with a guide who told them his associates in the north could show them a village, essentially a safe house where North Korean defectors gather before sneaking out of the country.
They write "We had no intention of leaving China. But when our guide beckoned for us to follow him, we did, eventually arriving on the North Korean side of the riverbank."
They point out there were no signs, no fences marking the border, but they immediately became nervous, and within 60 seconds they ran back to the Chinese side.
Of course it was too late. Armed North Korean guards chased them down. Two colleagues, we now know, actually got away, but Lee and Ling were captured.
They write "We tried with all our might to cling to bushes, ground, anything, but we were no match for the determined soldiers. They violently dragged us back to North Korea and marched us to an army base."
Over the next four and a half months or so Lee and Ling say they were isolated from one another, repeatedly interrogated, and eventually sentenced to 12 years of hard labor.
They say they were so cut off from the outside world that they actually thought they were off to a labor camp on the very day that guards brought them to a room where President Clinton was waiting to take them home. Imagine their surprise.
Now, Lee and Ling have been back with their families for about a month now. They say they know that people, of course, want to hear more about their experience in captivity. "But what we have shared here," they say, "is all we are prepared to talk about. The wounds," they say, "are slow to heal."
It's interesting to note that they say -- to this day they say we still don't know if we were lured into a trap. They say thinking back on it, they said their guard, they now think, believed a bit oddly, but they do admit ultimately it was our decision to follow him.
So anyway, just a fascinating insight into what happened on that day. Of course, we all want to hear more about their time in captivity. I think it might be awhile before we hear more. ROBERTS: We remember that emotional moment when they arrived back home and Laura Ling said we were called to a meeting and we walked into a room and there was President Clinton.
CHO: And you imagine, and they were isolated from one another.
CHETRY: And that's when they say they knew they were safe.
CHO: Exactly, you can bet their surprise.
ROBERTS: Alina, thanks so much.
CHO: You bet.
CHETRY: Also this morning, bracing for hurricane Jimena. It is swirling now over one of Mexico's top vacation resorts, still a powerful storm with winds as high as 110 miles an hour.
The National Weather Service says it could produce life- threatening flash flooding and mudslides. The government has declared a state of emergency right now for Los Cabos.
We're also getting some dramatic hurricane video from some of our iReporters on the scene. This one was shot from a fourth floor balcony -- iReporter Jack Duffy celebrating his 40th birthday in Cabo. He says the surf washed away a lot of the beach and that the resort has prepared for the worst.
He also says they were asked to stay inside their hotel rooms.
ROBERTS: Minding your business this morning, the cash for clunkers hangover as automakers get set to release their monthly sales reported today. They are expected to show the first year to year increase since 2007.
The cash for clunkers program is getting all the credit, but many car dealers report that they are still waiting for the government to pay them back for the cash that they laid out.
CHETRY: A brutal beating caught on dash cam video, two Texas police officers now facing charges for the incident that took place back in 2007. The victim allegedly hit with a baton 13 times and Tasered twice during a traffic stop.
A local police officer's association said that they stand by the officers and they believe the officers will be vindicated.
ROBERTS: The husband of the woman who drove her minivan the wrong way on a New York parkway killing eight people including four children is speaking out defending his wife.
Appearing last night on "LARRY KING LIVE," Daniel Schuler continued to deny that his wife had a drinking problem and said he had no idea why there was a vodka bottle in the car.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LARRY KING: What was the vodka bottle doing in the car?
DANIEL SCHULER: My wife packed all the bags that day in the camper and leaves them by the door. I carried them from the camper to the truck. I'm very surprised that the vodka bottle was in there. I had no idea.
KING: Does it give you pause to think that maybe, just maybe, she was a drinker and you didn't know it?
SCHULER: I've been with her for 13 years -- absolutely not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: The lawyer that also announced that Daniel Schuler's wife's body will now be exhumed to prove their position that she wasn't drunk.
CHETRY: They're maintaining that it was some medical condition that happened to her, and so that's why they want to do that.
Still ahead, we're tracking the latest with the wildfires, the station wildfire. It's the huge one in Los Angeles. They've made progress containing it. Will the weather cooperate, though, because there is still a long way to go? Our Rob Marciano in the fire lines with us, joining us in just a moment. It's now ten minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
In California right now the firestorm outside of Los Angeles is still raging. Officials say the so called station fire is now 22 percent contained, but admit there is still a long fight ahead.
Around 6,000 homes are under mandatory evacuations, and at least 62 have been destroyed. Our Rob Marciano is live in Lake View Terrace this morning. That's on the southeastern side of the Angeles National Forest. Rob, what is the situation like there now?
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, we had an increase in humidity yesterday, John, and that's one thing that allowed firefighters to get a bit of a grip on this storm, also some cloud cover kept temperatures down. So we increased the amount of containment.
But that same humidity today without cloud cover may very well lead to a shower or even a thunderstorm that won't produce enough beneficial rain but only create downdraft that will make things a little bit more difficult for firefighters as far as predictability of the wind. That's what happened yesterday.
It's amazing to watch these crews, when the conditions change, how fast they have to react, especially when you're dealing with people's lives. The battle on the home front certainly continues today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARCIANO: Noel and Marta Rincon to had to evacuate their home.
MARTA RINCON, HOMEOWNER: Just keep praying that everything is going to be OK, you know. That's all we can do.
MARCIANO: Noel grew up in the house, married his high school sweetheart, and together they raised their children here.
MARTA RINCON: That's our daughter Amanda and her boyfriend. This is my son Christopher. He's 16 now.
MARCIANO: And now the station fire is knocking at their door.
MARCIANO (on camera): What were your emotions going through your head last night when you were told to get out?
NOEL RINCON, HOMEOWNER: That we were -- I thought we were going to lose our home.
MARCIANO: The fire's backing down this canyon from several spots. One up there, you can see the smoke billowing at times, the flames popping up over the top of that ridge, also spotting from that ridge.
And then around this corner where the main fire is, they expect it to drain down the canyon and head towards the Rincon home. This is the street they're here to protect.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You walk up there, take a peek at that little knob and see what it's doing there. The inversion is lifting. That means that we're going to get some wind increase and the fire activity is probably going to increase.
MARCIANO (voice-over): Fire crews get ready as the flames accelerate down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We waited seven hours for the fire to get to where it is right now, and in the last 40 minutes, it's traveled the same distance that it did in seven hours.
MARCIANO: Hot shot crews march out to work the line, a bulldozer moves in to clear heavy brush. But the fire begins to turn the corner. The cavalry arrives.
MARCIANO (on camera): The chopper just arrived to help with water drops to put the fire out. It's motoring down the canyon, just picking up water here, and dropping it on the other side of that ledge. It's getting real close to the homes now.
MARCIANO (voice-over): The sky crane slows the fast-moving fire, dousing the flames before they reach Noel and Marta's home.
MARTA RINCON: It's very scary but the captain keeps assuring us our house is very savable and that we're going to be fine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARCIANO: Residents all across the fire lines very grateful to these firefighters. They do an amazing job and react very quickly to changing conditions. The confidence they have in what they do and how they do it is truly remarkable.
We're going to see a shift change in a couple of hours at the command post, and they'll head out again, all 4,000 and change of them, as they continue to battle the blaze. It will still be at least a week, if not two, John and Kiran, before they get full containment on this fire. Back to you.
ROBERTS: And welcome reassurance for the Rincon family there as well. Rob Marciano there for us on the fire lines. Rob, thanks so much.
CHETRY: She's accused of helping her husband kidnap and hold Jaycee Dugard for nearly 20 years, and maybe worse. The lawyer for Phillip Garrido's wife Nancy is going to be joining us next to tell us what she told him about the case.
It's 16 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. Right now it's 18 1/2 minutes past the hour.
We're following new developments today in the horrifying abduction, rape, and 18-year imprisonment of Jaycee Dugard. And now the spotlight is turning to Phillip Garrido, the sex offender's wife.
According to court documents Nancy Garrido did far more than just stand by while her husband stole a little child's childhood away allegedly. She's charged in connection with the kidnapping and rape. All 29 counts, she's charged with them as well.
Gilbert Maines a long time California attorney, was appointed to be her public defender. He found out in a very short time when he showed up in court that he was the one chosen out of potentially seven to defend her. He joins us now to shed some light on what was going on.
Mr. Maines, thanks for being with us this morning.
GILBERT MAINES, ATTORNEY FOR NANCY GARRIDO: You're welcome.
CHETRY: I'm sure you were familiar with the case before you were appointed her attorney. How much have you been able to learn from talking to Nancy about what her side of this story is?
MAINES: Well, first of all, I wasn't aware of the case before I was appointed.
Secondly, she's not charged on all 29 counts. More like half of them, I guess, apply to her.
And what I have been able to learn from Nancy is subject to attorney-client privilege, so when it gets to that, I can talk about what her feeling is, how she is faring in jail.
But please understand, my role in this case is to get her a fair trial in the court of law as opposed to in the media. And I have been on this case for five days. I have seen absolutely no discovery. All I've seen is what's been on the air. And I've spent an hour-and-a- half talking to my client.
CHETRY: Wait a minute, OK, there's two things here I want you to clarify for me, because according to our research, it says that she was arraigned on 29 counts Friday. You're saying she was not?
MAINES: She was arraigned on the counts that she -- understand, at the arraignment, they did not read the pleading. We waived a formal reading of the pleading, and we entered a general denial to -- we pled not guilty to all charges that applied to us, and denied any special allegations that applied to us.
That's the way it's done. There are 29 counts in the complaint.
CHETRY: And as we understand...
MAINES: They are differentiated between...
CHETRY: ... they gave equal billing on this 16-page charge sheet that you're referring to, that she is accused of forcible rape, committing a forcible lewd act upon a child and false imprisonment by violence. So some of those big, the biggest charges of what happened in this Jaycee Dugard case also apply to your client.
Have you guys talked about or talked what she says happened? I understand you put in a not guilty plea, but is she giving any information about what she says happened?
MAINES: We have talked about what she says happened, yes. And I can't talk about that on the air. That's clearly attorney-client privilege.
And you know, we are in the process of formulating any defense that we have, or that we may have. We are still in the process of investigating this entire thing. And...
CHETRY: Is there a -- I'm just wondering, is there a possibility in this situation that she is going to provide information against her husband, Phillip Garrido, in the situation?
MAINES: We haven't been asked. Frankly, it would probably surprise me if we were.
CHETRY: The reason I ask is because there was an interview that was done with his first wife by the name of Christine Murphy. She spoke to "Inside Edition," and in it she talked about being fearful of him and the fact that he abused her and made her afraid to leave, that he told her -- she says she was always looking for a way to get away from him, and that he always told her he'd find her, wherever she tried to go, that at one point in a jealous rage he tried to gouge her eyes out with a safety pin. She talked about living in fear.
And so I'm just wondering if your client told you anything about whether or not she stayed voluntary married him or whether there was a fear factor there.
MAINES: We haven't discussed that. We haven't discussed that in any length whatsoever.
She's -- I have been, and I've said before, I've been trying to establish a line of communication with my client so that I can get behind what is going on.
I'm sure you understand that this is a horrendous thing for her. I mean, I realize it's horrendous for Jaycee and her parents and the children, and -- but my concern right now is that my client get a fair trial.
And to do that I have to open a line of communication in which she will confide in me and talk to me so I can formulate any defense that is available, so I can discover it and formulate it. That's part of my job.
CHETRY: I got you.
MAINES: That's what I'm supposed to do.
CHETRY: One of the thing you said earlier when we first started talking is you said you wanted to make sure this case is tried in the courts and not in the media. Is there anything that you would like to say because you are appearing in television here and on other networks today?
MAINES: Well, you know, I agreed to appear here so that we can get this over with and I can get about my job. You know, I've been absolutely inundated by the media.
There have been some misstatements made in the media, and possibly very innocent misstatements, like she's charged with 29 counts. She was there, therefore she must be culpable. You know, that's good speculation, but any good prosecutor will tell you they can't prosecute and convict on speculation.
CHETRY: No, I mean let just me clarify one thing. We're not speculating or assuming that because she was there, she's guilty. We're just speaking strictly about the fact that she was arraigned according to our research, unless you're telling me wrong, Friday on 29 counts in connection with this case.
We're only going by what we're told she was arraigned on in the court.
MAINES: OK. I understand that. And what I'm telling you is that the complaint, if you look at the complaint, does not name her in 29 counts. It names her in more like 14 or 15, I think.
And when the district attorney tells you that she got equal billing, that was a true statement as far as I know, because everything that she is accused of, Phillip is accused of. But they're accused in separate counts. They are only accused in one count together, and that's the kidnapping. That's the accusation that's made.
MAINES: All right, as you know, you have a lot of work ahead of you. I appreciate you coming on this morning. Gilbert Maines, attorney for Nancy Garrido, joining us this morning from El Dorado Hills, California. Thanks.
MAINES: You're welcome.
CHETRY: It's 25 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: It's 26 1/2 minutes past the hour. Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
Imagine some in the economy saying no to a raise. Well, we found some teachers at one Maryland charter school doing exactly that. They are fighting their own teachers union to give their students a better education.
Our Carol Costello is live in Washington with today's report on our special series, "Educating America." Hi, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kiran.
What's happening at Baltimore's in Kipp Ujima Village academy could have a ripple effect across the country. It's part of a network of charter schools, schools that receive public money but have autonomy over their curriculum and method.
The only requirement -- produce results. Kipp is certainly delivering. But in Baltimore the teacher's union decided to flex its muscle, and Kipp teachers say that interference is putting a tried and tested formula for success in jeopardy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
The Kipp Ujima Village academy in Baltimore runs a tight ship, but around every corner is evidence of the tough love that's led to unparalleled success.
Students here, many of whom come from Baltimore's meanest streets, have among the highest test scores not just in Baltimore but in all of Maryland.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of your other friends in the city are in their beds this morning. But you, you are here learning, OK, getting smarter.
COSTELLO: Because Kipp Academy is a charter school, kids here start school earlier, stay later, and have access to their teachers 24/7. Malik Holmes is a Kipp eighth grader.
COSTELLO (on camera): It sounds like you love school.
MALIK HOLMES, EIGHTH GRADER, KIPP UJIMA VILLAGE ACADEMY: No.
COSTELLO: No?
(LAUGHTER)
How do you feel about it?
HOLMES: Good, because the teachers here actually care about whether I get an education or not.
COSTELLO: Teachers here believe so passionately in what they're doing they agreed to be paid less to do more, as in nine hours a day and every other Saturday, even though the teachers' union calls for just a seven-hour day.
YASMENE MUMBY, TEACHER, KIPP UJIMA VILLAGE ACADEMY: It all comes down to the students. It comes down to what they give you and what you give them back. That's the motivation, not the pay.
COSTELLO: But passion is not enough for the Baltimore teachers' union. After seven years of silence, it's now insisting teachers here be paid more even if they don't want the money.
MARIETTA ENGLISH, PRESIDENT, BALTIMORE TEACHERS UNION: We have these agreements throughout the city with all of our charter schools, and all we're asking is that they're treated fairly.
COSTELLO: Kipp Ujima was already paying its teachers 18 percent more than the average public school, but the union demanded the academy bump it up to 33 percent.
The school says that's forced it to lay off five teachers, shorten the school day, and eliminate Saturday classes and field trips.
COSTELLO (on camera): You're still in negotiations with the union. What are you asking?
SHAWN TOLER, PRINCIPAL, KIPP UJIMA VILLAGE ACADEMY: We want to restore our day. We want them to really look at the wonderful things that we're doing here according to the money that we have, that we're really paying teachers good money.
COSTELLO (voice-over): Students here hope so, too.
COSTELLO (on camera): Your teachers, how do you feel about them?
DAISIA GILMIRE, EIGHT GRADER, KIPP UJIMA VILLAGE ACADEMY: Well, I feel that they are here to help us. They don't care how much they're getting paid.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to know what your goals are for this week.
COSTELLO (voice-over): Teachers want the same, but right now it looks as if they'll have to accept a raise, whether they want it or not.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: When I asked the union about the teachers that Kipp was forced to lay off because of this union mandate, Marietta English, the union boss, told me there are plenty of other teaching jobs available in Baltimore. All those teachers have to do is apply.
As for Kipp, late yesterday afternoon it sent along an email, said the stakes are high for the Kipp Baltimore school. Unless they get some breathing room under the law or from the union, the future of the school is in jeopardy - Kiran.
CHETRY: That's unbelievable, given that it's, you know, held up there as an example of what's working in education.
COSTELLO: I know. And they're hoping for the best. They're still negotiating on both sides. The union says, yes, we'll still talk to them, but the union is probably going to continue its mandate and force the teachers to accept at least a little more money, if maybe not the whole 33 percent more.
CHETRY: All right. Well, Carol Costello, good stuff. Thank you.
And also tomorrow in our "Educating America" series, Congress has slashed funds for abstinence-only programs. Now, school systems across the country are coming up with new ways to teach kids about sex. But do these courses go too far? Should they be offering free STD testing? Learning all about birth control? How much is too much?
That's tomorrow on the Most News in the Morning.
ROBERTS: Now to our developing story this morning. It's been nearly eight years, and it's a good time to ask, will there ever really be victory in Afghanistan? That's the question that's dogging military leaders and experts and political leaders alike.
Top Afghanistan Commander General Stanley McChrystal just called for an overhaul in the U.S. strategy to help stem the recent troop losses. Joining me now to talk about the future of the war is retired Lt. Col. John Nagl. He helped write the book for General Petraeus on counterinsurgency.
Lieutenant Colonel, it's good to see you this morning. Thanks for being with us.
JOHN NAGL, PRESIDENT, CENTER FOR NEW AMERICAN SECURITY: My pleasure, john. ROBERTS: This report from General Stanley McChrystal is classified, but little bits and pieces of it are kind of leaking out here and there. We understand that he's suggesting to intensify the buildup of Afghan security forces. Some American commanders have suggested to double the size of the police and the military there, improved government, economic development initiatives.
It's this idea of counterinsurgency versus counterterrorism. Do you think that General McChrystal, from what you know of the report, is on the right track?
NAGL: I do, and I've been privileged to work with General McChrystal a little bit over the course of the last six months or so in rethinking the way we are approaching the war in Afghanistan. Although we are eight years into this war, we've never properly resourced it to provide the resources required to secure the population or to build the Afghan forces that, in time, can take over from us. We're finally starting down that track now.
ROBERTS: Can you explain for folks at home the difference between counterinsurgency and counter terrorism?
NAGL: Counterterrorism is focused on killing or capturing the enemy, and that's an important part of counterinsurgency, but it's only a part. Counterinsurgency is a broader strategy aimed at building a government that in time can take over, secure the population by itself without external help. So, counterterrorism is an important part of what we do and what we're going to continue to do going forward. Unfortunately, for the past eight years, it's been the primary focus, and it is not an exit strategy.
ROBERTS: And as far as we know, Lieutenant Colonel, there is no request in General McChrystal's report for extra troops, though that either may be coming or as the "Los Angeles Times" suggests today, there may be a formulation where you take some of the support units out, and you send them back home, and you replace them with combat units. So, effectively, you might beef up your combat forces by about 14,000, while at the same time keeping the overall size of the force about the same. Would that be an appropriate way to do it?
NAGL: The U.S. Army, the U.S. military as a whole is under strain after eight years of war, so anything General McChrystal can do to squeeze more efficiencies out of the uniformed personnel he has to work with is absolutely a step in the right direction. So, what he's doing right now is looking hard at efficiencies inside his force, figuring out which jobs can only be done by military, making sure that the other jobs are handed out to other organizations and people who can help.
And then once he's got that process accomplished, and the additional - there's still another 4,000 or so troops that are flowing into theater that aren't there yet. Once those are all on the ground, I think then we'll be in a good position to take a good hard look and determine if we really do need more resources.
ROBERTS: American public opinion is burning against the war. A new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll shows 57 percent of people overall oppose the war in Afghanistan. When you ask Democrats, 73 percent of them are opposed to the war. Is it critical to turn things around in the coming months, maybe a year, or give up the attempt?
NAGL: I think over the next year to 18 months, you'll see General McChrystal's new strategy, the new resources that President Obama has devoted to this fight, starting to turn the situation around. We'll see Afghan security forces increasingly capable and more able to take responsibility over from American forces, and that will allow us to start drawing down several years from now.
ROBERTS: You know, even conservative columnist George Will said that it's time to get out of Afghanistan. And in an op-ed piece, he says that you should pull all U.S. troops out of Afghanistan, wage war from afar with drones and other high-tech forms of warfare. He said, quote, "Genius, said de Gaulle, recalling Bismarck's decision to halt German forces short of Paris in 1870, sometimes consists of knowing when to stop. Genius is not required to recognize that in Afghanistan when means now, before more American valor is squandered."
What's your take on that?
NAGL: I disagree pretty profoundly with George Will on this. I got the chance to talk with him about it yesterday. I understand his concern, his feelings of loss and suffering that American military personnel are going through there. But the fact remains that Afghanistan, what happens in Afghanistan, has a huge impact on the security of the United States and on the war against al Qaeda.
This is a sacrifice that my friends who are still in uniform remain willing to make. They believe in General McChrystal. They believe that what they're doing under this new strategy has a good chance of success. They're going to ask the American people to give them an opportunity to prove that over the next 18 months or so.
ROBERTS: Lieutenant Colonel John Nagl, president of the Center for New American Security. It's always great to tap your brain and find out what you're thinking on all this. Really appreciate you coming in.
NAGL: My pleasure, John.
CHETRY: Well, still ahead, the secret business of organ trafficking. Our special investigations unit reporter Drew Griffin found sometimes it's as easy as just having enough money. That's how you get a donation. Thirty-six minutes after the hour
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. It's a shocking statistic. The World Health Organization says 10 percent of the kidney transplants worldwide are bogus, thought to be illegal, documents falsified and doctors bribed.
CNN's special investigations unit has been working the story, uncovering a global ring of human organ trafficking. And our Drew Griffin joins us live from Atlanta with more. This is really an unbelievable story as you peel back the layers of the onion here, Drew.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE UNIT CORRESPONDENT: John, you and I have covered a lot of things. This was an eye-opener for me. I had no idea this was going on, but I want you to meet an Israeli kidney broker. He's been in the business for about four years, entering the business when his mother needed a kidney.
He thought the brokers were gouging him, so he went to China, found a hospital, arranged his own mother's transplant, and after that became a broker. He says it was easy. He does it within the law. He wants to not reveal his identity, though. And listen to how coldly he thinks about the actual donors.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN (voice-over): Did you know anything about the donors?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing. To tell you the truth, I even didn't care from where it comes from. I send something like 60 patients in one year.
GRIFFIN: You, yourself, sent 60 patients.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, only my company, yes. You must know that I never deal with the donors. This is not things that I do. I don't deal with the donors. I never met them. I never go to see who they are. The only one I see is only the patient.
Sometimes there are many, many, many people who are desperate. They don't have any work. They don't have money to survive. So they can sell their kidney.
GRIFFIN: Your mother, you said, she wouldn't dare take a kidney from her son.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
GRIFFIN: But she would take a kidney, from a person she will never know, in China.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. What's so strange about that?
GRIFFIN: You can jump to the head of the line?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
GRIFFIN: Because you have money?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
GRIFFIN: It says that the rich person has more of a right to their health and their life than the poor person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is reality. This is how it happens. This is the truth. And it's sad, but this is what it is.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFIFN: That man's arranged more than 200 of the kidney transplants. And it's not just happening somewhere else in the world, John. We have uncovered deals taking place at some of the biggest hospitals here in the U.S. Estimates that nearly 2,000 transplants a year here involved an illegal kidney purchase; that means roughly four or five people today, John, today in the U.S. will be getting new kidneys that they have bought from the donor. Much more tonight on "AC 360."
ROBERTS: You hear about this stuff maybe happening around the world, but you wouldn't think it was widespread here in the United States, Drew.
GRIFFIN: No. And what we're seeing, that broker there, his business now is to find a patient and donor overseas and bring them to the U.S.
ROBERTS: Wow.
GRIFFIN: So they're looking for U.S. hospitals to do this, and there's all kinds of ways to circumvent the system, to lie, deceive, and get these kidney transplants taking place.
ROBERTS: Pretty incredible. Drew Griffin on the story for us this morning.
Drew, thanks so much for that.
Forty-three minutes now after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. It's 45 minutes past the hour.
Lawmakers are getting ready to head back to Washington after their August recess. We want to know how you're feeling about the two biggest issues out there right now, the economy and health care reform.
So we sent our Chief Business Correspondent Ali Velshi on the road. And today the CNN Express is in Chicago. He's sampling opinion as well as some polish sausage we understand.
Hey, Ali.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kiran. You're right. I'm at Joe's Original Polish Sausage. Twenty- four hours, it's an institution, been here since 1939. We're on Chicago's South Side. We're at 95th and the Dan Ryan.
A little different. You know, we've been stopping in towns, farming communities, little industrial towns. We thought we'd stop on the South Side of Chicago, urban America, and get a sense for what's going on. And a lot of people are stopping in on this place, early in the morning.
Anthony Bruce is the custodian here in Chicago.
Anthony, we're talking about health care first of all. Really quickly your sense of how this debate is going? What you want out of health care? And whether you think this administration is doing a good job?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow, man. I can't...
VELSHI: Or any one of those?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well first of all, health care, I think we could get a little better on health care. What was the other question?
VELSHI: You have health care coverage?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I do.
VELSHI: You're happy with it in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just started a new job, so it's coming in.
VELSHI: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But...
VELSHI: One of the things we've been talking about on TV, is a lot of economists are saying the recession is over, or ending, right now. Are you feeling that? Are you feeling good about the economy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, a little bit. A little bit. I think it's getting a little better.
VELSHI: How are things in this part of the city?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They could be a little better, but people are losing jobs and stuff, still losing their jobs. But it's getting a little better.
VELSHI: All right. So, you're feeling things might be improving.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
VELSHI: Anthony, thank you and thank you for stopping with us on your way to get your coffee. We hope you enjoy yourself today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
VELSHI: We're getting a lot of people obviously on their way to work. This is a major intersection. We're going to be speaking to people all morning, getting their sense of what's happening in the health care debate, and of course, the economy and continuing our road trip - Kiran.
CHETRY: Sounds good. Let us know if the sausage is good as well.
Thanks, Ali.
ROBERTS: If he stays out of the intersection he'll be OK.
So, the swine flu, dire warnings about how many people in the United States it could affect in the coming months. How would you know if your child has swine flu or if it is just the normal flu, or maybe even a cold? We're "Paging Doctor Sanjay Gupta." He has got the hallmark symptoms coming up for you. Forty-seven and a half minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: With the start of school, experts fear that millions of children will come down with swine flu. In some places the number of kids being taken to emergency rooms has already tripled. So if your child is burning up with a fever, coughing, sore throat, how do you know if it's time to rush them to the ER? We're "Paging Doctor Gupta." Our chief medical correspondent is in the ER now to show you where your sick child belongs, in the hospital, or at home.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: The president's talking about this, the secretary of health is talking about this, lots of concerns about swine flu. So, we decided to come to an emergency room to find out what's really happening.
First thing we learn is that the ER is about 200 percent busier than it normally is. Probably doesn't need to be. And something else that may surprise you, most kids that come here probably won't even get tested. Let's take a look.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They say it was like only a two-hour wait.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have a sore throat, a headache, and I have a cough.
DR. ALESIA FLEMING, CHILDREN'S HEALTHCARE, ATLANTA: The flu has hit the city. We know that. OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Big time.
FLEMING: Whether it's regular seasonal flu or the new H1N1 flu that everybody is talking about, we won't be certain today. We're no longer testing to try to decipher that out. It doesn't make a difference.
GUPTA: As a journalist, it's been a little bit difficult to cover. Because on one hand we have heard about children dying of H1N1, in the spring we heard about that more so. And we know that this virus seems to affect younger people more so than older people. So what am I to do with that as a parent?
DR. JIM FORTENBERRY, CHILDREN'S HEALTHCARE, ATLANTA: I would recommend to families to really look at your child and take away the H1N1 term and look at them as if they had the flu, and think of several things. If your child is less than 3 months old and has a fever, at any time, I would bring that child in to be seen. If your child is having difficulty breathing, if they are dehydrated, that is very dried out, they are vomiting and not able to keep fluids down, they need to come in and be seen.
If your child isn't -- isn't perking up between fevers, then you should speak with your family pediatrician, family doctor. If we can help limit the number of children that come to the emergency department just to the ones that really need services, that we're going to provide differently, that might need to be in the hospital, for instance. If we can help limit that we can help make this work better for all of the kids.
GUPTA: Despite everything that the media is reporting, this virus doesn't sound that bad.
FORTENBERRY: I think right now, yes, right now we need to think of this as the flu. We need to keep our guard up.
GUPTA: What percentage of people who get swine flu are going to need the ER?
FORTENBERRY: Only a small percentage, a tiny percentage of those numbers will have to come to the hospital.
GUPTA: One thing I learned is that H1N1 is here. But as things stand now for most kids it's going to mean a few miserable days. Those miserable days are best spent at home. John, Kiran, back to you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: Dr. Sanjay Gupta reporting.
So, what are schools across the country doing to prepare for an outbreak of swine flu? We'll talk with the Secretary of Education Arnie Duncan. He joins us coming up in just a few minutes.
CHETRY: Yes.
ROBERTS: So, don't you go away.
CHETRY: Also just what's so different about the flu and swine flu in terms of how you prepare, how you get ready, and what you should be concerned about? And will there be enough of this vaccine to go around? So, a lot of questions when it comes to how we're handling this as a nation.
It's 52 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CHETRY: It's 55 past the hour. Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
The pressure is on when it comes to the make or break issue of health care. Lawmakers from coast to coast have been holding town hall meetings, constituents have been asking questions. But soon the time for talk will be over. Congress gets back to work after Labor Day. Brianna Keilar is live in Washington.
As we know there is still a lot of debate out there. There's talk that the president may come on and try to clarify where the administration wants to go in terms of health care. They are gearing up in Washington.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They certainly are gearing up. And the debate, Kiran, very heated.
Last night, just a stone's throw from Washington, D.C., we went to House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer's district in southern Maryland. Hoyer is House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's top deputy, but he's also the representative of a district that gave more than 60 percent of its vote to John McCain in November.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KEILAR (voice-over): The line for House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer's town hall meeting wrapped around much of the high school where it was held, opinions covering the spectrum.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I'm in debt, I cut back. They're trying to pick up more, and we don't have the money for it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it should pass. I think everybody should have affordable health care.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know all the ins and outs. I'm afraid I might lose what I have.
KEILAR: Once inside some made desperate pleas for a government- run insurance plan.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can't afford health care. I believe that health care is a right and not a privilege.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My son pays $800 a month and has a $5,000 deductible. This is unacceptable. We need a public option.
REP. STENY HOYER, (D) MAJORITY LEADER: I support a public option. In my opinion it would bring down premiums for all of us, private or public.
KEILAR: But in this conservative district many people were concerned the Democratic plan to overhaul health care will drive the country further into debt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't see how the government can provide all these things and still say they are going to save money. It just -- it doesn't make ordinary common sense.
KEILAR: Despite assurances from Hoyer.
HOYER: If it's not paid for, I'm not going to vote for it.
KEILAR: Critics remain skeptical, convinced the health care system is broken but just as certain a government-run insurance plan is not the fix.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am for health care reform, but I'm not for government run health care reform.
KELAR: Speaking to CNN after the meeting, Hoyer reaffirmed his support for the so-called public option, but stopped short of saying House Democrats will vote down a bill if it doesn't include one.
HOYER: I also believe that there are many other aspects of this bill that are very good, and will make a real difference in terms of cost to individuals and families, access to affordable quality health care, all of those are very important as well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KEILAR: Now the reality is while a government-run public option is in all three versions of the House health care reform bill, and one in the Senate, in the Senate centrist Democrats expressed enough opposition to the public plan that its passage, in the Senate, seems extremely unlikely, Kiran.
CHETRY: Brianna Keilar, for us this morning. Still a lot of debate as you said.
KEILAR: Oh, yes.
CHETRY: We'll see how it goes. All right. Thanks.
You know we know that you guys have a lot of questions about health care reform. We're helping sort facts from fiction as best we can and putting all of the answers together online. You can head to CNN.com/health care.
