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CNN Larry King Live
Encore: Interview With Chris Brown
Aired September 05, 2009 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, Chris Brown exclusive...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Do you remember doing it?
CHRIS BROWN: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The singer talks for the only time on TV...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: It's crazy (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: ...about why he hit Rihanna.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And sometimes, in a way, you lose your temper or like arguments get heated or whatever the case may be, but.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Why he pled guilty to felony assault.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: About the infamous photo.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: I didn't know if the pictures were altered. I didn't know if they were real. I didn't know if -- what -- so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: And his feelings for Rihanna today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KING: Do you love her?
BROWN: Definitely.
KING: Are you in love with her?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: It's Chris Brown exclusive, right now next, on LARRY KING LIVE.
Good evening. With us tonight on LARRY KING LIVE are Chris Brown; his mother, Joyce Hawkins; and his attorney, Mark Geragos.
Chris entered a guilty plea on June 22nd -- a deal that allowed him to avoid jail time. He pled guilty to felony assault after a widely publicized incident with his girlfriend, Rihanna. A second felony charge, making criminal threats, was dropped. And Chris was sentenced to five years probation and six months of community labor.
We thank you all for coming.
How are you doing?
BROWN: I'm good.
Thank you.
KING: This had to be the worst period of your life.
BROWN: Possibly, yes.
KING: Possibly?
BROWN: Yes.
KING: Are things calm for you now?
Are you into it?
BROWN: I think it's more a relief now that everything is kind of all said and done as far as like what I have to do and what's going on. I think it's no more -- no more media frenzy for them to kind of blow out of proportion anymore.
KING: So you're glad it's over?
BROWN: Yes.
KING: What did you plead -- explain, quickly, Mark, what he pled guilty to.
MARK GERAGOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Assault, basically, was what it is -- a felony assault charge; sentenced to five years of probation; as you said, 180 days of what Judge Schnegg calls community labor. And he has to undergo a domestic violence program for one year. KING: And five years means you've got to be like perfect...
GERAGOS: It means he walks the straight and narrow for five years. And as Judge Schnegg said in court yesterday, she's -- she's a tough task master, but she's fair.
KING: We're taping this a week before it airs, so it's airing on this night, but that was yesterday, meaning last Tuesday.
GERAGOS: That was.
KING: And before we get into the meat of everything, Chris, how have you handled all this, Joyce?
JOYCE HAWKINS, CHRIS BROWN'S MOTHER: It's probably the most painful time of my entire life. It's been hard, really hard, seeing him going through the pain and everything that he's gone through, dealing with the media and dealing with the situation. It's been really hard.
KING: Especially with all the pain you've had in your life.
HAWKINS: Yes, along with that.
KING: Which we'll get to later.
But the labor-oriented service, what -- what does it mean you have to do, Chris?
This is back in Virginia, right?
BROWN: Yes, back in Virginia.
KING: What do you have to do?
BROWN: I think they want me to do anything -- anything from picking up trash on the side of the street, washing cars, graffiti removal, I mean any -- anything. But it's the law, so I'm willing to do whatever they want me to do.
KING: Is it fair?
BROWN: To me, possibly everything comes -- everything comes with consequences. So I feel like definitely it is. And I have no misjudgment on what the judge has -- has -- has given me. So I'm willing to do anything they ask.
KING: So you feel it's -- it's fair?
BROWN: Yes.
KING: Yes. The judge was very specific. She wanted labor involved in the punishment.
BROWN: Yes.
KING: What did that mean to you when she said that, hard work?
BROWN: Hard work, yes, definitely. And I'm a very hard worker, so that -- that's kind of -- I wouldn't say second nature, but it's definitely something that I'm willing to -- to do.
As far as the actual what I have to do, I felt personally that, as far as not saying as -- as a celebrity, because I don't exclude myself and try to become like, oh, I'm a celebrity so I shouldn't be punished. But I feel like with -- with what I'm capable of doing as far as influencing people, influencing kids, the youth, I can do a lot more to help the community other than picking up trash. But I don't -- I'm not saying picking up trash is something wrong. I'm willing to do it. But I'm just saying, I know I can do a lot more, which I intend to do, aside from our community service.
KING: The sentencing judge, as I understand it, has not lifted a protective order the court imposed on you in connection with Rihanna. That means you can't be with her?
BROWN: No, I can't. I can't communicate. Nothing.
KING: Do you think that's fair?
BROWN: It's kind of hard, definitely, because being -- her being my friend for so long and us being -- being that close of a friend, it's kind of like, wow, like, not being able to see or talk to that person is kind of -- kind of difficult. And -- but it's -- it's also hard because we're both in the same industry. We do -- we go to the same events. We...
KING: That you can do, right?
BROWN: Yes, I can go to the same event. We haven't (INAUDIBLE)...
KING: But you cannot go together?
BROWN: Not -- not at all. We have to be like 10 yards away from each other, but I just feel like it's harder, because we're always in the same vicinity, and it leaves more -- because we have the protection order, it leaves more room for error. It leaves more room for people to start rumors and start -- start more stuff, like, oh, they're together. They're not supposed to be together. And -- and it just kind of leaves more room for -- for problems.
KING: You have to be real careful, right, Mark?
GERAGOS: Yes, more than careful. I mean there was an incident -- a supposed incident in New York where the two of them -- unbeknownst to each other because they don't talk to each other -- are rumored to be at the same hotel. So before -- before we even verify it, I just tell him, move. So, you know, it's almost -- I've kiddingly joked, we almost have to put GPS chips into the two of them to figure out where the other one is at all times.
KING: How well do you know Rihanna, Joyce? HAWKINS: I've known Rihanna for four or five years. And...
KING: Do you like her?
HAWKINS: I like her, yes.
KING: When the incident happened, how did it hit you?
HAWKINS: Like I said, I was devastated. I was really upset about the situation and really felt really bad about this whole situation really...
KING: Were you shocked?
HAWKINS: Very shocked. Very shocked.
KING: We'll get into all of it.
During the sentencing, the judge said she was not immune from the chatter on the airwaves about meetings between you and Rihanna.
BROWN: Yes.
KING: Now, obviously, it upset her, right?
BROWN: Yes.
KING: Do you understand that part?
BROWN: Yes, I understand that totally. Of course, like, the media, like -- I'm not saying this media -- but the media, as far as like the -- the -- the immature media, you know...
KING: Immature media?
BROWN: The immature media. I feel like it's high school sometimes, how people just pride theirself on personal business. But like I feel like they -- they spun a lot of the stuff out of control, as far as with -- with the judge, with a lot of things, because everybody reads the newspapers. Everybody reads the blogs. Everybody reads stuff like that. So it's easily influenced when there's something that's already stated like it happened.
KING: But what happened happened.
BROWN: Yes.
KING: And you were involved in what happened...
BROWN: Yes.
KING: ... So you have to accept the consequences.
BROWN: Definitely.
GERAGOS: You know, the difference in this case -- and I've been through a number of cases where there was media attention -- the difference in this case is the aftermath of the incident, where there was repeatedly just false stuff that would be printed. And major newspapers would put out things -- they're -- they spent the weekend together here or they spent the weekend together there, which was just false. They weren't even -- at one point, they said the two of them had spent the night together in one location. She wasn't even in the country.
KING: Simply put, when was the last time you had contact with her?
BROWN: It's been a couple months, because I think that's when the actual stay away order was in effect. So from there, we haven't had contact at all.
KING: Do you love her?
BROWN: Definitely.
KING: In love with her?
BROWN: Definitely.
KING: Would you spend a lifetime with her?
BROWN: Would I spend a lifetime -- well, I mean, I'm 20, so...
KING: No, well, let's say -- could you conceive of that down the road?
BROWN: I -- yes.
KING: We'll be right back with Chris Brown, Joyce Hawkins and Mark Geragos. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brown has been accused in an attack against a woman identified by sources close to the couple as Rihanna. Authorities believe an argument between Brown and a woman turned physical, with the woman suffering visible injuries. Brown was arrested and released on $50,000 bail. Neither he nor his lawyer nor Rihanna have cemented.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We're back with Chris Brown and his mother, Joyce, and his attorney, Mark.
OK, we'll show it now and then get through it and then get to the whole story of what happened. Here's the photo of Rihanna's face after the February 8th altercation. It has been seen around the world many times.
When did you first see it?
BROWN: I first saw it, I think, like maybe a week after the -- the incident. I think -- I think TMZ or somebody posted it. But I first saw it, yes, that's when.
KING: What did you think?
BROWN: I -- I didn't know what to think at the time. I was like what, like, because at -- at the time, I just didn't know what -- honestly what to think. And I didn't know if the pictures were altered. I didn't know if they were real. I didn't know what. So I was just like, man. I just felt so disappointed, like, in myself.
KING: But you accepted the fact that you caused it?
BROWN: I accepted the fact, yes.
KING: And when you look at it six months later, do you have a different reaction?
BROWN: When I look at it now, it's just like, wow, like, I can't -- I can't believe that -- that actually happened. It's -- it just really like took a toll on me. Like, I was just like wow.
KING: How did you react, mom?
HAWKINS: When I saw it, I was really hurt. And I didn't know if it was altered, either. So it was just -- it really bothered me, really -- because I -- I mean, I really care about her and my son.
KING: And you had violence in your own life, right, which we'll move to later, because that could have probably led to some of this?
Are you OK?
I mean you -- you had it pretty rough, right, Chris, growing up?
BROWN: For the most part, like, my mom and -- and my dad, like, my actual biological father, we -- they took care of me good. But I mean, as far as like growing up in -- in -- growing up in domestic violence situations, as far as when my mom's, like, ex-husband and stuff like that, like there used to be times I used to be scared to go to bed, because I'd be like, well, I don't know.
KING: This was her husband or her boyfriend?
BROWN: This is her -- her boyfriend and her husband at the time. So it was just like I don't...
KING: So you saw a lot of violence?
BROWN: It depends. I didn't -- I didn't like overhear it. I didn't really see it all the time. Like I might -- there might have been one or two occasions.
KING: How old were you? BROWN: I was like seven -- seven and eight.
KING: Were you scared?
BROWN: Yes, very scared. Sometimes like I just didn't want to even come to the house, because there was like that (INAUDIBLE).
KING: Do you feel -- do you see any guilt at all, Joyce?
Like do you say to yourself, maybe I should have left?
HAWKINS: Yes. And I did leave eventually because of him.
KING: But that's a common thing, isn't it, Mark?
GERAGOS: Yes, they -- they talk about the cycle of violence.
KING: When you grow up with it?
GERAGOS: I -- you know, the -- I've handled these cases or these types of cases for years. And you tend to see -- it's almost surprising. I mean, in some cases, I've represented three generations from...
(CROSSTALK)
GERAGOS: ... Of people who have been charged with this crime. I mean...
KING: By the way, Joyce, I'm not a counselor, but it's not your fault.
BROWN: No.
GERAGOS: You know, but -- you know, this has been especially tough on -- on Joyce. And I think...
KING: Of course.
GERAGOS: ...one of the things that's been really hard for -- for Chris has been the toll that it's taken on his mom and on Rihanna. I mean, it's the two women that he loves most in -- in his life and loved (INAUDIBLE)...
KING: Have you spoken to Rihanna, Joyce?
HAWKINS: Yes, I have.
KING: Are you OK with her, the two of you?
All right, let's go back. You're driving home from a pre-Grammy party with Rihanna, right?
You're dating at the time?
BROWN: Yes. KING: You're in love, she loves you?
BROWN: Yes.
KING: What happened?
BROWN: Well, Larry, I don't feel like it's appropriate for -- for me to speak on what actually happened on that night, just out of respect for Rihanna and myself. And I -- I respect our privacy more and I don't want -- I don't want to just go into that. I don't feel it's (INAUDIBLE)...
KING: No, but can you tell us, from a point of view, what happened?
I mean what caused this?
BROWN: I don't...
KING: You don't have to be specific, but can you tell me what -- I mean, had you -- had you done this before?
BROWN: No, I'm sorry. I mean, I don't -- I don't want to really talk about what went on, like or what -- I feel like I owe it to her not to talk about that.
KING: Mark?
GERAGOS: Well, the -- you know, I've -- one of the things that's interesting about Chris is, when I first met him, he wanted to take responsibility immediately. I mean, he did not want to deny this. And that's not usual -- not usual in my line of work. I mean, usually, you know, you can have a -- you can have a client who -- they've got a videotape of the guy running out of the house and with the weapon in his hands and, you know, he's denying it the whole time.
Chris was completely different in that. I mean, he came in. He was forthright. He felt guilty. He felt a great deal of remorse. He wanted to reach out. He wanted to apologize. And, frankly, it was the fact that I told him, no, you can't, let me work this through for you and we'll deal with it. And there will come a time when you can talk about it.
And -- and I'll go back to what I said before. I mean, he felt absolutely awful and kept saying, "I want to talk to Rihanna. I want to apologize. I want to get help. I want to -- I don't want this to happen ever, ever again. And I want to make it up to my mom."
I mean, you can see from Joyce's reaction today it's still -- it's still kind of an open sore.
KING: All right.
Was drinking involved?
BROWN: Well, I don't want to discuss what was going on and what was done that night (INAUDIBLE).
KING: Well, you leave us in a weird position here. The affidavit says that you tried to force her -- identified in the report as "Robyn F." -- you tried to force her out of the car. I mean, you must have some memories of the night. This could help people who might be in the same kind of position.
BROWN: Yes, but I -- I feel like, as far as like for her privacy -- and I respect her enough and -- and respect her privacy, as well as mine, not to let people know and not to let people know what went on and what went down.
KING: Why do you think you were violent?
BROWN: I don't -- I don't want to go into that. I'm sorry.
KING: I mean, why do you think -- what do you think -- without telling me what she said, you said -- I understand. That's your privacy, you don't have to say it.
What do you think caused you to be violent?
I mean, you have to think about it. Everybody -- we all think about ourselves -- why did I lose my temper, why did I get angry over this?
BROWN: I mean, that's -- that's -- relationships. I wouldn't say it's OK. I think in -- just in relationships in general, there's -- there's chances where you lose your temper or like arguments get heated or whatever the case may be. But that's -- that's -- I just think it's -- I'm not saying domestic violence is a part of relationships.
I feel like that just there -- there's -- we're young. We're both young. So nobody taught us how to love one another. Nobody taught us a book on how to -- how to control our emotions or our anger. So it's like -- I just -- I'm not -- I'm not trying to fall on the fact that I'm young. I'm just saying it's -- it's just that -- it's a lot of stuff that I wish I could have -- I wish I could have changed that night.
GERAGOS: It's one of the reasons, too, I think that the judge has ordered the counseling and one of the reasons that it's a requirement that it be one year in California and in a lot of other states. It's a complex issue. It's something that -- you know, there's learned reactions. There's -- there is impulse control. There's all kinds of things that go into it.
And one of the things that I think that the judge and the D.A. wanted was that you get into counseling, that you -- you grapple with these issues and you learn it, and you go through it and try and figure it out for yourself.
I don't think that -- I mean, he's done a lot of introspection, but I don't think he's -- he or anybody else ever gets to a point where you say, OK, now I understand completely. I think you have to -- you have to go through the process.
KING: Yes. Well, you may never understand it, right?
GERAGOS: You may never understand. I mean, there's people who've been in therapy on issues like this for, you know, decades.
KING: We'll ask about charges being pressed and the like after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back with Chris Brown, his mother, Joyce Hawkins, his attorney, Mark Geragos.
All right. Some of the things -- when you hear about all the things that the police and the reports say you did, how do you react to that?
BROWN: I -- I don't -- like, I'll just look at it and like, wow, like, I'm in shock. Because, first of all, that's not who I am as a person and that's not who I promise I want to be. And so I -- I just -- when I look at like the police reports or I hear about the police reports, I don't know -- I don't know what -- what to think. I just don't know what to think. I'm just like, wow.
KING: Do you remember doing it?
BROWN: No.
KING: You don't remember doing it?
BROWN: I don't -- I don't -- it's like -- it's crazy to me. Like, I was just -- I'm like wow.
KING: What did he say to you, Joyce, when this happened, the first time you spoke to your son?
HAWKINS: He came and he actually spoke to me about what happened. And I was totally shocked, totally upset about the whole situation, because I know that Chris has never, ever been a violent person, ever. I mean throughout the entire time, even through high school or anything, I've never been called or (INAUDIBLE)...
KING: Never?
HAWKINS: Never.
KING: Weren't there some previous charges with Rihanna?
Did -- weren't there some altercations in the past?
HAWKINS: There were no charges ever.
BROWN: No. No charges, no.
KING: No. So when you look at this, are you -- do you feel like you're looking at someone else?
BROWN: Yes, from the outside looking in. When you see you're on TV, when they're saying this, when they're saying that...
KING: Well, you punched her a number of times.
BROWN: Yes.
KING: You threatened to beat the blank out of her when you got home; also said you warned you were going to kill her. You bit her on the ear and thinking -- now, you hear all that...
BROWN: Yes.
KING: Obviously -- this is always the disparagement here -- you have a lawyer here, you don't appear like a violent person at all.
BROWN: No.
KING: In fact, you appear rather calm, rather nice.
So what happened to you, do you think?
BROWN: Well, Larry, I'd just say, I guess that night it was just one of the nights I wish I could just take back and -- and I really regret and I feel totally ashamed of what I did.
KING: It never happened to you before?
BROWN: No.
KING: Was -- how did Rihanna react to all of this?
BROWN: I -- I don't know. I mean...
KING: What did she say to you?
BROWN: I mean, well, we talked briefly after, but it -- but, yes...
KING: The incident?
BROWN: Yes. But I don't want to really go in -- I don't want to -- like I said before, because of her personal and my personal, I don't want to say what -- the conversations we had on the phone. But -- but we just basically tried to work it out.
KING: Did it matter whether she pressed charges or not?
GERAGOS: No. In California, it really doesn't. There's -- there are exceptions. I mean, it's not like they can -- they can take her and put her in jail if she doesn't press charges or anything like that. They've changed the law in that respect. However, there are plenty of cases where the D.A. Prosecutes -- in this county, in L.A. County -- and they don't have anybody. I've -- I've actually seen cases where they've tried the case without the complaining witness or the victim. So they don't -- they don't need to.
And part of the problem, when you ask about Chris, you know, the specific incident and things like that, you know, the law was originally designed -- and still is -- that the complaining witness or the victim is not supposed to be identified and precisely so that there won't be these questions -- so they don't have to kind of relive it. And...
KING: But that would have been impossible.
GERAGOS: In this case, you know, it would have been impossible, I suppose. But, you know, she's kind of in an unfair position by virtue of the fact that she isn't cloaked with the anonymity that you normally get in these kinds of cases.
KING: I understand.
GERAGOS: And he's embraced that and said he doesn't -- he wants to -- he doesn't want to violate that. And I -- I respect him for that.
KING: But his own actions should be explained, don't you think?
GERAGOS: Well, you know, he's explained them in detail to his lawyer. He's explained them in detail to his mom. And he's explained them in detail to her.
KING: But this is his one kind of television interview...
GERAGOS: Well, I understand. But I don't know that...
KING: (INAUDIBLE)...
GERAGOS: I don't know -- and -- and I -- I think out of respect for her and her family...
KING: All right.
GERAGOS: ... I think it makes more sense for him not to get into it. If she wants to talk about it, that's her prerogative. But I don't think it's his to...
KING: All right. Then we'll discuss after the incident, without going back to the incident.
GERAGOS: Absolutely.
KING: Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The allegations have already cost Brown major endorsements. Wrigley dropped him as a pitch man. So did the Got Milk campaign, with both citing what they called "serious allegations." The story has also stunned the hip hop community. In a radio interview, Kanye West was quick to come to Rihanna's side.
KANYE WEST: Rihanna is so important to our culture, to -- to, you know, pop music. In that sense, I feel like that's my -- my baby sis and I would do any and everything to help her in any situation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two superstars used to headlines, but not like this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: I just want to cover this, because you said -- now, according to the probation report, Chris, there were at least two other incidents of domestic violence between you and Rihanna before the February 8th assault. Neither was ever reported to authorities.
Why?
BROWN: Because -- I don't know. And (INAUDIBLE)...
KING: Are you saying it never happened?
BROWN: Yes, I'm not aware of those -- those incidents.
KING: It says the first incident took place last year in Europe -- a verbal dispute. You shoved her into a wall in Europe. And according to a probation report, the second incident took place in Barbados, driving in a car again. And you got out of the car and broke the front driver and passenger's side windows.
Are those false reports?
Was that in the probation?
GERAGOS: That was in the probation report...
KING: Well, that means the probation officer...
GERAGOS: But I think it was left...
KING: ...learned that, right?
GERAGOS: No. I think what the probation officer did was take something that he saw in another report. I don't think that that -- in fact, I'm positive that if you look at the probation report, he never spoke to -- to Rihanna, nor was there a statement that was delivered. I think that that was lifted.
KING: Are you saying it never happened, then? BROWN: Yes. I mean, I don't have -- especially of those -- of that nature, like, no. Like as a -- as an actual couple, like, we have disputes and arguments, but it's never got to the extent that it got to this point.
KING: Did you have major differences?
HAWKINS: No.
BROWN: I mean...
KING: I mean for a 20-year-old...
BROWN: I mean yes, we're
KING: ...what would be a major difference?
BROWN: ...20 years. Yes, it's not a major...
KING: What lollypop are we going to get tomorrow?
BROWN: No. Right. But it's not really a -- it really wasn't ever like -- our relationship was pretty good. Like, I -- like we had a pretty steady and great relationship.
KING: Did you like -- how did you think of them as a couple, Joyce?
HAWKINS: I mean I liked Rihanna. And as a couple, together, fine. He's -- he's my kid and she was like a child to me, as well. She was like my daughter to me. I mean (INAUDIBLE)...
KING: So it wouldn't have shocked you if they had gone on together and eventually married?
HAWKINS: It wouldn't have. I mean, we've spent Christmas together...
KING: It's happened before.
HAWKINS: ...and did other things together. It was a relationship between two young people.
KING: When you talked to Rihanna after it...
HAWKINS: When did I talk to her?
KING: When you talked to her, what was her attitude?
HAWKINS: I -- I just actually spoke to her -- it was the same. It wasn't any different and no animosity towards him.
KING: No animosity?
HAWKINS: No. No. She said, "Mom, I love you." And I said, "I love you," as well. KING: She calls you "mom?"
HAWKINS: Yes.
KING: Do you -- when you look at -- at what happened -- and we know the stories that when you grow up with violence, later violence occurs, do you ever say to yourself that that's how I can piece this together?
HAWKINS: No.
KING: He was subjected to it as a kid?
HAWKINS: I don't really say that, because I don't believe that just because someone was abused that -- and someone saw it, they're going to actually be an abuser. And it can happen, but I can't say that for sure for every case, because it's not the case.
KING: So then this is completely mind-boggling to you?
HAWKINS: It is mind-boggling to me. Yes, it is, because I never saw it before this situation. So it was like -- it wasn't something -- I was like, oh, my god, he's always done this.
KING: He didn't fight with kids in school?
HAWKINS: No. You know, there were scuffles but...
BROWN: Every kid has scuffles like with...
HAWKINS: But no fights.
BROWN: ...with guys, but there was never no -- like a domestic dispute between a female and me. Like I never...
KING: All right. Do you say to yourself, Chris, I'm a -- you know you're a great talent, right?
I mean, you know you've got a lot of talent?
BROWN: Thank you.
KING: You're a great dancer, a great singer, you're popular, you're known all over the world.
Do you ever say to yourself, I screwed up?
BROWN: All the time. Every day.
KING: I screwed my career.
BROWN: Every day. Every day. I think -- I think this is probably -- like I said, it's probably one of the worst moments of my life. And I always -- always wish like I could take it back. And every day, it's just something that sticks in my mind. And I've said countless times how -- how sorry I am to Rihanna. And like -- and I just accepted full responsibility. But it's just one of those -- those things I wish I could have relived and just handled totally different.
KING: I promised that we'd ask about after the incident.
We will after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back with Chris Brown, Joyce Hawkins and Mark Geragos.
What happened -- after the incident it took about eight hours for you to turn yourself in. What happened then? I mean, in those eight hours?
BROWN: I mean, those eight hours, I was basically just going to my mom and just like being totally disappointed in myself, and how disappointed she would be in me. At the same time, just trying to make sure everything was right and be ready to turn myself in.
KING: Were you scared?
BROWN: Definitely, yes.
KING: You went to see your mom first?
BROWN: Yes.
KING: Where was this?
BROWN: I think where we were staying at our hotel.
KING: In L.A.?
BROWN: Yes.
KING: You were here visiting?
HAWKINS: Absolutely. For the Grammys.
KING: For the Grammys, right? That's when...
HAWKINS: Yes. Mm-hmm.
KING: OK, so that -- you learned about it from your son?
HAWKINS: I sure did.
KING: You didn't have to see the pictures or anything?
HAWKINS: No. I'm not.
KING: Did he tell you everything that happened?
HAWKINS: He sure did. KING: What does a mommy say to her son?
HAWKINS: I'm there for him no matter what, but when he's wrong, he's wrong and I'll let him know that he is and I'll try to give him the right advice and tell him how he should or should not do with situation of this magnitude and what the situation was.
KING: Were you worried about Rihanna?
HAWKINS: I was worried about her. Very much so. Want to know how she was as well.
KING: You forgave your son because he's your son.
HAWKINS: Of course, I would forgive anyone. It's not just because he's my son, I'm not one to judge anyone.
KING: Well, we do judge in society.
HAWKINS: Well, I don't have that right to do that. I mean...
KING: How do you explain it to yourself then?
HAWKINS: How do I explain...
KING: He has trouble explaining it to himself, because I understand, that's hard. We don't know always know why we do what we do.
GERAGOS: It takes a while. Sometimes you get there, sometimes you don't. But, you know, there's -- it's especially difficult when there is all kinds of reports and misreports and things of that nature. I mean we've talked before about the supposed two prior incidents. But if you look at the -- what these supposed incidents are, one is where she's supposedly slapping him and there's a reaction. The other is a breaking of the glass.
That's not domestic violence, that's technically if that happens, it's vandalism. So you've got that. You've got all of these other things that tend to kind of morph into their own urban legends when they aren't necessarily true. When, at the same time, you're already as he was, feeling guilty about the whole thing and wanting to apologize and wanting to (INAUDIBLE).
KING: But you understand in modern media rumors start, people start -- I mean there are all the crazy thing...
GERAGOS: I do. But the problem with this case was is the sourcing of it. I mean there was repeatedly stories of where they were patently false. Where we would show them that they were patently false. Write a letter that they were patently false and they still wouldn't -- they still reported it.
KING: But the one thing not false is what happened that night happened.
GERAGOS: And everything.
KING: You can't escape that.
GERAGOS: We continued the arraignment a couple of times in this case. At least once. Because he wanted to plead guilty from day one. He wanted to apologize from day one. And that was one of the reasons that we continued arraignment in this case.
KING: Why do you want to plead right away?
BROWN: I mean I just felt like there's consequences for my actions, and I feel it was up to me to be a man and show people that it's not OK, regardless of what any domestic incident, it's never OK. And because I am a celebrity and celebrities get the name of getting off when they're in trouble all the time, so I just felt like it's basically, like, it was just my right as a man to do that.
KING: But if you wanted to do that, you wanted to pay the price, you might have done jail time.
BROWN: And it's something I'll have to accept.
KING: On July 20th, Chris posted a public apology video on his Web site. Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: What I did was inexcusable. I am very sad and very shamed of what I've done. My mother and my spiritual teachers have taught me way better than that. I have told Rihanna countless times and I'm telling you today that I'm truly, truly sorry and that I wasn't able to handle the situation both differently and better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Why did you post that, Chris?
BROWN: Well, I did it -- first, I wanted to do it immediately. Actually, I wanted to do it right after the incident happened. But I felt I owed it to, like, people, and definitely my fans, and people who really support me, and I let down that to let people know who I really am and how remorseful and sorry I was.
So that was key, like as far as -- because I had already apologized to Rihanna. Me and her had established that I was sorry. And she knew I was sorry. And then from there, I just wanted to tell my fans and the people who were like, what happened and whatnot, the people who already want to scrutinize me and whatever.
Just my natural fans and all my fan base who actually looked up to me and prided themselves on listening to my music or having a good feeling about me. I wanted to express to them how I felt and how I was.
KING: In the video you posted, you say you're sorry and weren't able to handle the situation both differently and better. How do you explain that?
BROWN: Just differently and better. Just me being a bigger man like when the problem occurs, instead of walking away, handling the situation is very different. And just being mature about it and not handling the stuff immaturely.
KING: What kind of input did you have on that video? Did you...
GERAGOS: Not a whole lot. I mean, the input I had on the video was holding him back from doing it sooner. That's about the only input. He -- you know, what you saw there was largely written by him. Those are words that came from his heart. I plugged in a couple of things and he scratched them right off. And he said no...
KING: (INAUDIBLE)
BROWN: Yes. I got a little help because of the wording, but it all came from my heart. Those words are from my heart.
KING: We'll be right back, don't go away.
ANNOUNCER: LARRY KING LIVE brought to you by...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police arrested Chris Brown this weekend after an alleged fight with this girlfriend and fellow Grammy nominee Rihanna.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... assault against girlfriend Rihanna.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chris Brown's first words...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... history of domestic violence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... how sorry and saddened I am over what transpired.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... Chris Brown brutally attacked his girlfriend...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Surrounded by a crush of cameras, Chris Brown arrived in court to face the music.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We're back with Chris, Joyce and Mark. When you apologized, how do you do that? What did you say?
BROWN: When I apologized, I just basically showed that I was really sorry.
KING: What did you say to her? BROWN: I don't want to say what I said to her, how we had our conversation and how we dealt with the situation. It's between me and her.
KING: Did you ever talk to her, Mark?
GERAGOS: You know I haven't. I talked to Don, her lawyer, and I've known Don for a number of years. And we have a good relationship. And he, I think, had pretty good contact with her as well.
KING: What did you say to her, Joyce?
HAWKINS: When this happened?
KING: Yes. What did you say?
HAWKINS: I wanted her to know that I was -- felt very, very bad for what had happened and apologized for my son, along with I'm so sorry for what happened to you. And I don't know what else to say. I gave her a hug and she hugged me as well.
KING: What did she say to you?
HAWKINS: She doesn't have a lot to say. It was, like, mom, I'm OK. I'm OK. And I love you.
KING: She always call you mom?
HAWKINS: Yes.
KING: OK. Something strange. Later in February, you and Rihanna were photographed jet skiing and relaxing at the Miami home of Sean Diddy Combs.
How did that come about?
BROWN: Well, after the incident, it was like a lot of media frenzy. A lot of stuff going on. I mean, with me and her, it was just like -- just wanted to get away and kind of -- I wouldn't say rekindle our relationship but just build that friendship back up that we had lost briefly with because of the two sides.
It was sort of like Romeo and Juliet story, like both sides not wanting us to kind of have contact so we just got away and just wanted to -- and that's the main reason I was on the jet ski. I know I got a lot of flack from that and other people were like, well, why is he on a jet ski, why does he just act like he had no care in the world?
Because I was rekindling my relationship with my friend.
KING: Did you rekindle it?
BROWN: At the time, yes.
KING: Would you say it's rekindle now? I mean, even though you can't see each other and talk to each other?
BROWN: I'm pretty sure we can always be friends and I don't know about our relationship, but I just -- I know definitely that we ended as friends.
KING: What was that like to be back with her there at that home, after all of this happened, without being -- you don't have to tell us why it happened. What was it like? Boy, that had to be awkward.
BROWN: It was awkward. I mean, I think we have already established there how sorry I was. And she knew that. And then from there, we just wanted to relax. That's all it was about. And I know everybody was like, Puffy was the mediator. He wasn't. He was actually just a friend. And he just -- out of everybody, he stepped up and was like, well, I'll lend you my house.
KING: Did she ever say to you, why did you do that?
BROWN: No. No, never.
KING: Never said that? And you weren't able to tell her because you don't even know why you did it?
BROWN: Yes, the situation was really touchy, so we didn't really want to -- we just wanted to be friends and relax.
KING: So what did you talk about?
BROWN: That's personal.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: I mean, what do you talk about? The next record you're going to do or what?
BROWN: No, I think when we hang out, we don't really worry about the entertainment side or our careers as far as music is concerned. We're just -- we're just kids. We're just having fun.
KING: You're not surprised with the attention this got, are you? You can't be surprised.
GERAGOS: Well, you know what, a little bit. I teased him when I got the call that morning at about 6:30. And I said, you know, somebody said this happened. And I think Ben Brafman called me and told me, you know, Chris Brown and Rihanna. And so I got out of bed. It was about 6:30.
KING: The lawyer Ben Brafman?
GERAGOS: Yes, the lawyer Ben Brafman. And I walked into my 18- year-old daughter Tenny's room. And I woke her up and I said, "Who's Chris Brown and what's a Rihanna?" And you know...
(LAUGHTER)
GERAGOS: She looked at me and gave me this, "Dad, you're such a loser." And you know, that was...
KING: The rest is history.
GERAGOS: A couple of hours, yes.
KING: We'll be back in 60 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight on "360", Nancy Garrido, Phillip Garrido's wife, building her defense in the court of public opinion. Her lawyer today saying she's a victim. This in response to news she continued to hold Jaycee captive while Garrido was in prison. We have details ahead.
And the fight for Afghanistan. August is the deadliest month yet in the eight-year battle Public support for the war slipping. Is it time to pull out? We'll look at that.
Plus Michael Jackson's burial will finally happen tomorrow two months after the singer's death. Randi Kaye will have the details of who's going to attend, how much it will cost and which stories will pay tribute to Jackson.
We also heard Chris Brown's story. We'll be taking your questions for Denise Brown, Nicole Brown-Simpson's sister on the program tonight. Now back to "LARRY KING LIVE."
KING: We're back. Chris, the February 8th episode shocked a lot of people for a lot of reasons, including the fact that Chris had spoken out about his mother having been a victim of domestic violence. Here's some of what you told Tyra Banks. This is all before all the incident. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: It affected me, you know what I'm saying? Basically, especially towards women, I treat them differently. Because I know -- I don't know when I go through the same thing or put a woman through the same thing that I put my mother through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: What happened?
BROWN: I made a mistake. Made a mistake. And I -- it's just something I have to live up to and own. And just know that I can change it and be a better person. I definitely made a mistake.
KING: Do you ever think maybe something's the matter with me?
BROWN: I mean, when -- I'm not saying I have a problem. But when people -- I'm willing to get counseling. At the end of the day. I'm willing to learn myself more. Because me being 20, I don't know everything. I'm not a man fully yet. So I want to definitely be a man and learn who I am and learn how to control emotions. Learn how to control different things. I'm definitely willing to learn.
KING: Do you ever, Joyce, think back whenever there's -- and star to say, wait a minute, there was this time when you were 17, or I remember once when he was 19, or -- where you can say now I understand partially what happened?
HAWKINS: No. Never.
KING: Did you ever get a call from a parent of another kid who said...
HAWKINS: No.
KING: ... Chris beat my son or my daughter up?
HAWKINS: Never, never.
KING: So you're totally -- you have no knowledge of...
HAWKINS: I know that hasn't happened to him. I mean I have never -- I've never gotten a call.
KING: You can't piece anything together?
HAWKINS: No.
KING: We'll be right back with more. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And now more on the Rihanna/Chris Brown saga.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The allegations and the affidavit are shocking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 19-year-old Chris Brown has been charged with two felonies.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shocking new details in the reported Rihanna beating come to light.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One count of assault and one count of making criminal threat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a media frenzy here at this criminal courts building in L.A.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We're back. Chris, you said you loved her. Would it bug you if she dated other men? It's going to happen.
BROWN: I definitely would be affected by it, but at the end of the day, I mean, we're not together. So if she's happy, I'm cool.
KING: How about you and other girls?
BROWN: I mean, right now, I'm focused on my career. So only girl that I love is all my fans.
KING: You're not dating?
BROWN: No.
KING: Nor do you intend to?
BROWN: I mean, well, who knows? I'm not saying I'm not going to date. I'm just...
KING: But if you saw her, it would have to bug you a little. If you (INAUDIBLE)...
BROWN: Tell me, who wouldn't be upset or who wouldn't be like kind of hurt if somebody else gets the person you love?
KING: In late May, a video of Chris Brown bowling with a recording artist Bow Wow appeared on YouTube. Here's some of what Chris said to the camera.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Yes. I'm very -- we're not -- and I will do all the talking. I'm going to say this is just some new stuff I'm doing. I just want to say what up? Because I haven't been out there but new album will be coming soon. We're working on my career right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's crazy.
BROWN: Called "Graffiti." Got everything on it. You know what I'm saying? Y'all be ready for that. I'm about to drop a single to some of you so, we ain't going nowhere. Everybody that hates us, they've been haters. All my real fans, I love y'all. I ain't a monster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: You're not a monster. Who are the haters you're talking about?
BROWN: I know that kind of gets -- that sounds so bad when you watch it, but...
KING: You don't sound good.
BROWN: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: But I think who I was trying to address was the people in the blog sites who continuously made false statements or continuously put out -- I'm saying that incident, I'm talking about like the haters as far as -- like blog sites. People who aren't naturally my fans that just comment on stuff that always just -- that's just bogus. And it's like, OK, well, if you're not my fan, then don't listen to my music. I'm not asking you to.
KING: Your idol was Michael Jackson.
BROWN: Yes.
KING: How do you think what happened here in the middle of all this with you?
BROWN: I mean, I was devastated. Like I say, my situation was definitely, definitely important but I got broke down when I found out Michael Jackson died. And it just -- it really struck a nerve because it was like -- that's like one of the reasons I really do music, like honestly.
And my first reason when I was 15, I was like, yes, I'm going to get a lot of girls and will be able to do music, I'm going to have fun. But it really was Michael Jackson. I was watching him ever since I was 2 years old trying to do moonwalk, trying to do the (INAUDIBLE) dance, I was like his protege.
KING: Did you think about going to the memorial service?
BROWN: I did go.
KING: Oh you did go.
BROWN: Yes. I just kept a low profile.
KING: Did you? How did the paparazzi miss you?
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Did you go disguised?
BROWN: No. I just -- I was a couple of rows back. I just wanted to be chilled and pay my respect.
KING: Do you remember him as a little boy being Michael Jackson?
HAWKINS: Yes, because I love Michael. I was one of his number one fans. And of course, him being in front of the mirror and watching Michael dancing at 2 years old, doing little videos at theme parks to Michael Jackson music.
KING: We'll talk about in our remaining moments that career and where it goes right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was once hard not to like Chris Brown. The 19-year-old fresh faced R&B singer wooed kids and their parents with its clean lyrics and polished good looks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We're in our remaining moments. We reached out to Rihanna for a statement about tonight's interview with Chris Brown. Received no response. There is a standing invitation for Rihanna to be a guest on LARRY KING LIVE.
And before we ask about what you do with your career now, do you want to say something, Joyce?
HAWKINS: I just want to reiterate that Chris has never, ever been a violent person. I know you keep asking me, but he's never, never encountered any activity with violence at all. So I just wanted to make sure...
KING: So this was an aberration to you?
HAWKINS: Yes.
KING: What do you do with your career now?
BROWN: I mean, only time will tell. I think...
KING: Are you recording?
BROWN: Definitely. Music, that's my passion. But I feel like I'm going to do a lot of my stuff. Just having fun. Just trying...
KING: Are you doing any concerts?
BROWN: Not at the moment. I think I'm going to wait this -- wait a little while. It's just been -- I don't think at the end of the day this is -- my career is over. I just feel like it's just -- I just need to prove to people I can be a role model.
KING: The tragedy, though, is when you die maybe 100 years from today, this is going to be in the first paragraph.
BROWN: Yes, this -- they did it with Michael Jackson. So -- and that's my man. That's who I love. So I just feel like that's what people love. People love negativity. They feed off that. It's like a drug to them. So I think if I continue to live my life in a positive way and a positive manner, and show people the other side of me, then it leaves no room for error at the end of the day.
KING: Anything you want to say to her now or your fans?
BROWN: I mean, with just everybody, I mean, like I said, I've apologized. I've said I'm sorry. I thank everybody who supported me, my real friends, and you know who you are. I just love all my supporters and I love everything. Thank you.
KING: This probation prevent him from doing concerts?
GERAGOS: No. In fact, he can travel anywhere in the U.S. and if he gets permission he can -- from the court -- he can go outside of the country. But he's got a load of community service to do.
KING: All supervised in Virginia?
GERAGOS: Yes, with the approval of the Probation Department, all of these things are going to be done where he lives. He lives in Virginia, as I think they've mentioned. They live three doors away from each other. Mom keeps a pretty good eye on him. And I'll tell you something, I've grown to love this kid like a son or a nephew.
KING: You have?
GERAGOS: I really have. I mean, I adore Joyce, but this guy, I have really come to like quite a bit. He's a great kid, a realty great kid. And I have a high degree of confidence, I'll say it now, so that you can play it back if he ever does anything, but a high degree of confidence that he's not going to do anything like this in the future.
KING: We all hope so. We wish you the best, Chris.
BROWN: Thank you for having me.
KING: Thank you. Thanks, Joyce. Thanks, Mark.
It's time now for Anderson Cooper and "AC 360." Anderson?
