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Jane Velez-Mitchell
New Details About Jaycee Dugard`s Years of Captivity
Aired September 10, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, living in hell. Gut-wrenching new details emerge from the Jaycee Dugard kidnapping case. We`re now learning more about the early years of her nightmare captivity. This poor little girl, allegedly kidnapped from her bus stop and locked up for three long years with no interaction with the outside world. When exactly did this monster Phillip Garrido allegedly start using her as his sex slave?
And the woman accused of brutally murdering 8-year-old Sandra Cantu and stuffing her little body in a suitcase gets her day in court. Meanwhile, it doesn`t seem like she`s doing too well in jail. Court records say she`s been hiding in her cell, refusing food and taking pills. She`s not getting any sympathy from me. But will this crazy behavior affect the trial?
Also, strapped in a wheelchair with severe brain damage, the young man who was paralyzed by the reckless driving of Hulk Hogan`s son finally leaves the hospital. It`s been two years since this horrific wreck, but as he left the hospital, the man responsible, Nick Hogan and his father, Hulk, nowhere to be found.
Plus, did Jon Gosselin get the boot? "InTouch" weekly reporting the reality dad turned wannabe player playboy dumped by his young girlfriend after a trip to Las Vegas. His jilted lover now spilling the beans. The star of "Jon and Kate Plus 8" was allegedly living it up with showgirls and bikini-clad women, and she claims she`s got cell phone pics that prove it.
And shocking sound overheard of a married politician talking about spanking a woman? We`ll discuss the uproar.
ISSUES starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight staggering details of Jaycee Dugard`s abduction nightmare that we`ve never heard before. Get this. She was apparently kept in isolation in Phillip Garrido`s disgusting backyard compound for more than three years after her initial kidnapping, isolated. Listen to criminal defense attorney Michael Cardoza on "The CBS Early Show."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL CARDOZA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They put her in the backyard in a tent or one of the outbuildings back there. They left her in that backyard for three and a half years before they let her get out into the public.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How cruel, how sick. Michael Cardoza is here tonight to share more of his jaw-dropping discoveries, gleaned from his sources close to the investigation.
Think about it. Jaycee snatched from her family at 11 years old and completely isolated for three and a half years. What does complete isolation combined with sexual abuse do to a child`s mind, body and spirit?
We`ve also got new photos of Jaycee`s very nasty living quarters to show you. You will not believe the filth.
Meantime, police raided three properties near Phillip Garrido`s home that are owned by a couple who knew him. Cops seized a video camera, a computer, some DVDs and videotapes. We`re almost afraid to ask, were police looking for child porn. Is this the tip of the iceberg? Did Garrido or his wife use these properties to hide evidence?
We`re also hearing some very wild claims about Garrido`s sexual lifestyle way back in the 1970s. A guy who says he was in a band with Garrido talked to Radar Online. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EDDIE LOEBS, SAYS HE PLAYED IN A BAND WITH GARRIDO: On a couple occasions that I remember, he would bring home a girl that he met somewhere, and his wife would go sleep in the next room. He was a womanizer, you know. That was a pretty obvious thing. And it was nothing that he kept from anybody. And there was always, you know, "Hustler" magazine and stuff like that around the house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Not to mention all the drugs. Did Garrido`s past foreshadow a monster in the making? Is there an addictive component to the man`s obsession with sex and drugs?
Straight to my fantastic expert panel: psychiatrist and addiction specialist, Dr. Reef Kareem; Stacey Honowitz, supervisor of the sex crimes unit at the Florida prosecutor`s office; psychologist Michael Silverman; Curtis Sliwa, founder of the Guardian Angels and WABC radio talk show host.
But we begin with criminal defense attorney Michael Cardoza. Michael, your sources gave you some amazing new information. Tell us what you have learned.
CARDOZA: They did, Jane. Well, it all begins the day before Jaycee was kidnapped. Phillip Garrido and his wife, Nancy, were out looking for someone to kidnap. Now, I call that child shopping. They were actually looking for a kidnapping victim. And they spot Jaycee, but she`s with a group of girls. At that time, Phillip says, "That`s the one I want. She`s cute. I want her." But since she was with a group of people, they, Nancy and Phillip, decide they`re going to come back the next day to see if they can catch Jaycee alone.
They did, in fact, go back the next day and at or near that bus stop, they saw Jaycee alone. They got out of the car. They bring her into the car. They force her to the floorboard of that car, threaten her, and off they go. And they go on a two-and-a-half hour trip, approximately, three hours from Tahoe down to Antioch, California, where you have all the pictures of the back yard and all, and that`s where they put Jaycee. And Jaycee was not allowed into public for some three, three and a half years.
Now, I don`t have information about what happened during that three to three and a half years, but I think we all can well imagine, and most of us would not like to think about those things. But they kept her for that length of time before they let her out.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey Honowitz, sounds like somebody`s talking, and I would hazard a guess it could be Nancy, looking for leniency, looking to cut a deal so that she gets a lesser sentence if she rats on her husband, even though they were both involved in kidnapping, allegedly, this child.
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, Jane, absolutely. You`re 100 percent right. She probably is the one talking right now. I don`t know if prosecutors are going to say, "Just because you spoke means that we`re going to give you any less of a sentence," because when you hear Michael speak about the facts, they conspired together to take this child and to commit all of these heinous crimes against her.
But this information has to be coming from somewhere, and it`s not coming, we know, from the victim in this case. So I would -- I would bet it is coming from her, in her attempts or her attorney`s attempts to try to get her some kind of deal.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Curtis Sliwa, this is the scary part. They raided, investigators, three other properties, about 15 miles away or less. They confiscated DVDs, computers, video cameras. Is this the tip of the iceberg? Are we talking possibly child porn?
CURTIS SLIWA, FOUNDER, GUARDIAN ANGELS: Well, look how much has already slipped through the cracks that authorities had at their beck and call, and they just refused to see what was so obvious. They had window shades on their eyes, barnacles on their back side. They wouldn`t get their rear in gear.
And remember, the woman, Nancy, if she were to use the Stockholm Syndrome defense, if a defense attorney, a spin doctor were to say, "Well, she was under the Rasputin style, you know, guise of this animal," well, this guy was back in the hoosegow for close to three to four months, and she was the one directly in charge of Jaycee. So these are a group of two animals who were intent on...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t call them animals. Let`s not insult animals here.
SLIWA: Oh, you`re right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Animals don`t do this to others.
SLIWA: I`m sorry, I deserve -- I deserve a beat-down for that. You`re absolutely correct. I do my mea culpa to you. Animals would not do this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly.
Here are new pictures from Radar Online of the filth Jaycee was forced to live in. This place looks like a landfill. You can see very few signs of an actual childhood. Look at the garbage. Oh, there`s a paperback novel. We know Jaycee`s daughter somehow learned to read and write. It`s hard to make out, but there`s also a photo of a scattered puzzle, which seems like a very fitting image.
You know, if you`re isolated, Dr. Reef Kareem, at age 11, put in solitary confinement for three years, while you`re allegedly sexually violated by a strange man who even changes your name from Jaycee to Alyssa, what massive kind of psychological trauma does all of that combined together create?
DR. REEF KAREEM, PSYCHIATRIST AND ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Jane, where do we start. Geez. It`s -- you know, new imaging and research shows the neurobiology of child abuse, be it sexual, be it physical, be it verbal, has profound impact on the brain.
In regards to memory, in regards to emotional, how you deal with emotions, emotional regulation, and in regards to everything. And don`t forget, like, adolescents, kids at 11 years old, are just developing their brains. Their brains have a long way to go in regards to a lot of things: motivation, attention, just basic brain processing. All of that in this case is completely interrupted, completely stunted.
There is going to have to be so much work in regards to reality testing, in regards to just the confusion, in regards to trust and basic day-to-day skill development, dealing with emotions, all of that stuff.
You know, another thing is, Stockholm Syndrome was mentioned here. Stockholm Syndrome essentially came from 1973. There was a bank robbery where people involuntarily emotionally connected to their -- their captors, the perpetrators.
And what that basically means is when somebody has like a perceived threat that someone`s going to harm them, they can`t escape and they have kind of random acts of kindness, small amounts of kindness that a perpetrator has towards them, it`s a survival mechanism by which you kind of emotionally bond with them. They`re almost your, in a weird way, your safety net.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They become God, let`s face it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jane?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They become God. I want to go to -- to Colleen from Michigan. She has a thought or question, ma`am?
CALLER: Hi.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
CALLER: It just really bothers me that you talk about the drug abuse being such a major cause of these people`s problems, and when you`re drinking, did you run out and pick up a kid?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think...
CALLER: It has absolutely nothing to do with drugs.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I respectfully...
CALLER: ... or alcohol.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I respectfully disagree. I think most of the crimes that we cover, and why don`t we get Michael Silverman to weigh in on this, there is a drug component somewhere along the line, and drugs enable people to do things that they would never have the ability to do sober. Horrifying things.
MICHAEL SILVERMAN, PSYCHOLOGIST: Right. You are absolutely correct about that. And -- and the caller is absolutely, I have to say, incorrect in her statement about alcohol. Alcohol affects the brain differently than sort of the -- than the drugs that are being discussed with this perpetrator.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: LSD, acid.
SILVERMAN: You know, and also, there`s some dopaminergic effects. And we do know and there`s research to demonstrate that you do not want to give a sex offender dopamine. This is the wrong thing to give them.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I agree.
SILVERMAN: In the sense that it -- it facilitates the action. It reduces their ability to inhibit that sort of behavior.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I would dare say -- we`ve got to go to a break. We`re going to come back and debate it more. But I dare say if people weren`t on drugs, half the crimes, if not three-quarters of the crimes we discuss, wouldn`t have occurred.
More on Jaycee Dugard`s nightmare in a bit. We`re also taking your calls: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Plus, a conservative pro-family lawmaker caught on tape, talking about spanking a woman. And it`s not his wife. Maybe he`s in line for a spanking. Trust me: you don`t want to miss this audiotape. It will blow your mind. We`re going to play it for you.
But first, snatched from a bus stop and forced to spend three years with no contact with anybody, isolated as she is allegedly violated. We`re learning more about little Jaycee Dugard`s nightmare and how it began. Here`s her mom way back in 1991, pleading for her daughter`s return.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERRY PROBYN, MOTHER OF JAYCEE: She`s pretty, young, innocent child and you may like her, but we love her, too. And it`s time that she comes home to her family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALLISON JACOBS, UC BERKELEY P.D.: My main concern was for the two little girls that were with him. I could see no sign of abuse, but there was just something not right about them that just kind of sparked our interest, kind of a gut feeling, if you will.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was Allison Jacobs, one of the cops who helped rescue Jaycee Dugard. Law enforcement has faced an avalanche of criticism over the dozens of chances over the years they missed to bust Phillip Garrido.
But it was those officers, Officer Jacobs and Officer Lisa Campbell, who finally cracked the case when one of them ran into Phillip Garrido and his two daughters by Jaycee, ages 11 and 15, as they were handing out flyers at the Berkeley campus, and they noticed the girls looked robotic and non-responsive.
So the other female officer did a background check, found out Garrido was a sex offender, contacted his parole officer, who said, "Oh, no, Phillip Garrido doesn`t have any daughters. Maybe they`re granddaughters." Talk about lack of curiosity. That`s why they weren`t caught all these years.
Thank God, Officer Jacobs and the other officer, Lisa Campbell, they were curious, and they were honored for it. Bravo for these two female officers for doing their homework and following their gut instincts, which is what all the other officers should have been doing all these years, the ones who missed the boat with this guy.
Melanie, Ohio, your question or thought, ma`am?
CALLER: Praise God for those two officers. But by question being, would be was there any relative or anyone outside of this household, family members or anything, that noticed anything peculiar, anything of that nature? Thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Michael Cardoza, Phillip Garrido`s elderly mom lived in the house, did she not?
CARDOZA: That`s what I understand, but in direct answer to that question, you know, you go back to people, and the police have interviewed an awful lot of people that knew the Garridos, that would see the girls, for example, at birthday parties or around the neighborhood, and they would say, "Do you know, I always had a funny feeling about Phillip. He was very, very strange." You never know whether that`s because this now comes to light or whether people really felt that way.
But in order to understand what goes on out there out in Antioch, you have to understand this isn`t the best of neighborhoods. It is a neighborhood where people stay out of other people`s businesses, because you cross over somewhere you don`t belong, some of the -- some of the people that live there would not take kindly to that, and you just might get hurt doing something like that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But you know what, Michael Cardoza...
CARDOZA: So neighbors tended to -- go ahead, Jane. Go ahead.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I would just say that there`s -- this pattern defies any neighborhood. Take a look at the famous case from Austria. It has horrifying parallels.
Josef Fritzl started abusing his own daughter when she was just 11. And I think we`ve got some video of that. He locked her away in a windowless cellar for 24 years and fathered seven children with her. Elisabeth Fritzl was rescued just last year. Despite complicated medical and psychological problems, she has made a remarkable recovery.
Then there`s another girl, Natascha Kampusch. She was not as fortunate. She was abducted at 10, imprisoned inside her kidnapper`s home for more than eight years. She appeared to be doing well, even hosting her own TV talk show when she got out, but apparently, she eventually regressed and became very reclusive.
Dr. Reef Kareem, first of all, I think those two issues in Austria, very good neighborhoods. And yet, people around were completely clueless. In the first case, the mother...
HONOWITZ: Who would think of that?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What? Go ahead, Stacey.
HONOWITZ: I was going to say, I understand what you`re saying, but do you think that you would ever look at your neighbor and think that he sexually molested someone that he abducted and held her in the backyard? That would never run through anybody`s mind, quite frankly.
And so while we all can say there`s the creepy neighbor or that guy`s a little bizarre, I think the furthest thing from anybody`s mind is that a case like this was taking place next door.
CARDOZA: And it`s not -- Stacey`s right.
HONOWITZ: You know...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael?
HONOWITZ: You never come across something like that.
CARDOZA: It`s not on the neighbors, either. You can`t interfere with people like that unless you have something. What are you going to do? And Stacey will agree with me. What do you do, call the police and say, "I got a strange neighbor"? Heck, a lot of people have strange neighbors.
I mean, I know we have to look to parole. And I know we might have to look to some of the sheriffs that walked by this, but gosh, it happens all the time. The parole is the one that interests me more.
The subject that really interests me are these two little girls of Jaycee`s, because what must they be feeling? This is their dad. Phillip Garrido is their dad. They didn`t know him as a sexual abuser, child predator. They didn`t know him as a kidnapper. And now their dad is taken -- taken from them. They`ve got -- that`s a petrie dish for psychiatrists.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They feel guilty, and they say they`ve been worried about their daddy, but that was before. That was originally before they knew the whole story. I think they`ve been told a lot more.
CARDOZA: Yes.
KAREEM: Don`t forget here, Jane, don`t forget here. Yes, Jane, don`t forget here, they have been living in a vacuum, as has everyone in this case. What -- what happens here is that people will not see the outside world. You will take these victims, and you will house them in this vacuum that you control. That way, there`s no outside stimuli.
If there`s no outside stimuli, they have no reality check, and they`re going to have to learn all of these things from the get-go from day one.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it right there. Thank you to my fantastic panel.
The woman accused of brutally murdering little Sandra Cantu now facing the death penalty. Melissa Huckaby has been acting crazy in prison. Will it affect the trial?
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, right? Not if you`re Jon Gosselin. "InTouch Weekly" reporting that there`s a problem. We`ll tell you about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: "Jon and Kate Plus 8" has quickly turned into "Jon Hates Kate."
Jon Gosselin has wasted no time jumping into his new life as a bachelor. He`s been spotted with a bevy of young ladies, most notably 22- year-old Hailey Glassman -- get this -- the daughter of the soon-to-be ex- wife Kate`s tummy tuck surgeon. The duo has been seen living it up, sipping champagne on a yacht, smoking cigarettes, even getting retail therapy. If their PDA didn`t say it all, Jon publicly professed his undying love for his new woman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON GOSSELIN, REALITY TV STAR: Love her.
CHRIS CUOMO, INTERVIEWER: Love her. Big word.
GOSSELIN: Huge word. I don`t know. It`s like when you look at her, I don`t know, my heart pounds, I get sweaty. I don`t know. I feel like I love her more than I did Kate.
Polar opposite of Kate. I get encouragement from her. I get respect from her. Two things that a man needs. This is someone that I mean, like soul mate. People joke about that but I`m not joking about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my gosh. But is Hailey sick of Jon`s alleged womanizing ways? Here he is in Vegas, flirting with some scantily-clad women. Rumors flying Hailey kicked the dad of eight to the curb. Is it true?
E! executive news editor, Ken Baker, joins us now. Ken, you actually talked to the couple so please, set the record straight. Are these so- called soul mates still together or is it bye-bye?
KEN BAKER, E! EXECUTIVE NEWS EDITOR: Well, as of I guess about six, seven hours ago, they were completely together. I did have a conversation with them on the phone, and they actually, there was a cover story in one of the tabloids this week that said that, you know, she had dumped him and kicked him to the curb. They both said unequivocally it`s not true. They`re very happy together, and so it seems that the soul mate connection is fully intact.
However, Jon did take a lot of pictures with a lot of scantily-clad girls in Vegas, and what I`m told is that he took pictures with a lot of people. He can`t say no. He was a celebrity who was out in Vegas, and he took a lot of pictures. That`s what they`re saying. They`re together right now. So, you know, don`t worry about a break-up for Jon.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Just to clarify, when you called them, they were together on the phone?
BAKER: yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s always a good sign that they`re together.
BAKER: Yes, actually, well, Jon called and I spoke to him first, and he goes, "We`re totally together."
I was like, "I hate to do this but prove it." So he handed -- he handed her the phone and we spoke.
But seriously, I think that Jon really is in love with this girl. Like you said, she`s 22. He`s 32, but he seems to be having the time of his life.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And seems to hate his ex, the very ongoing, very public divorce battle getting uglier. Listen to this interview with ABC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOSSELIN: She has her film crew, and I have my film crew. But I can`t sit on the sofa with that woman. I can`t sit on someone right now that I despise.
CUOMO: Despise?
GOSSELIN: I despise because she`s not speaking from the heart. Please, the stuff you tell me in private should be the stuff you tell me on TV.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ken, this is ugly stuff.
BAKER: It`s really ugly. And that was an interesting interview because at one point, the interviewer, Chris Cuomo, said, "you know, your kids may see this interview," because he was speaking very harshly of the mother of his children.
I have a feeling that, if Jon could rewind and do that interview again, he would probably say it a little more artfully, because those may be his real feelings. You have to give him credit for at least being honest. But I think that when you do bring the kids into the picture, it probably isn`t very productive or healthy for him to be talking like that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, they say there`s a fine line between love and hate. And I think he is proving that cliche in spades. Thank you, Ken. Please come back soon.
A married family values lawmaker caught on tape bragging about spanking a woman. And this wasn`t some undercover sting. This guy was bragging in the middle of a public chamber, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The woman accused of brutally murdering 8-year-old Sandra Cantu and stuffing her little body in a suitcase gets her day in court. Meanwhile, it doesn`t seem like she`s doing too well in jail. Will her crazy behavior affect the trial?
Plus, strapped in a wheelchair with severe brain damage: the young man who was paralyzed by the reckless driving of Hulk Hogan`s son finally goes home. But as he left the hospital, the man responsible, Nick Hogan and his dad, Hulk, nowhere to be found.
But first, breaking news and a chilling look inside the apparently twisted mind of an accused child rapist and killer: 28-year-old Sunday school teacher Melissa Huckaby is charged with raping and murdering a beautiful innocent little girl last March. That girl was 8-year-old Sandra Cantu, the last images of her captured in this surveillance video, happily skipping in the sunshine. It`s on the very same day as she went to play with Huckaby`s own 5-year-old daughter.
Days later, Sandra`s tiny corpse was found stuffed in a suitcase that was tossed into an irrigation ditch. And when Melissa Huckaby was arrested for her murder her family came to her defense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONI HUGHES, MELISSA HUCKABY`S AUNT: We`re very, very shocked. It`s very out of character for Melissa. We love her dearly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Just what makes Melissa Huckaby tick? Reports from a custody officer in jail paint a very, very bizarre portrait. Quote, "Inmate Huckaby was hiding behind mattress with blanket around her neck. To safety cell per psych," end quote. That means off to the padded cell for her.
Meantime, just hours ago, in a dramatic courtroom development, prosecutors announce they will seek the death penalty for Miss Melissa Huckaby.
I am back with my fantastic expert panel and joining me now, Nikki Medoro, a reporter with KFBK Newstalk 1530 in Sacramento. Nikki, You were inside the courtroom today -- so many dramatic developments -- and we`re also hearing so much about the defendant`s cuckoo behavior in jail.
How did Melissa Huckaby appear? How did she act in court today? And what were the major developments?
NIKKI MEDORO, REPORTER, KFBK NEWSTALK: Well, she walked in and smiled at family. She seemed perfectly okay. She did have some marks on her arms but no visible injuries to her face, which was different than earlier court appearances. She smiled, waved at family, sat down, appeared fine. And we pretty much thought nothing was going to happen when ...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can I jump in for one second?
MEDORO: No problem.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The video that we`re looking at is old video of one of her earlier court appearances. She seems a lot happier than in this video where her lip was quivering and she was looking like she was having a breakdown; a different person.
MEDORO: Completely different person; she seemed absolutely fine. Again, like I had said, no injuries to her face. Of course, we can`t show any video now because of the gag order.
And then we didn`t think anything was going to happen because her attorney said they were not going to enter a plea. That`s when prosecutors said they would be seeking the death penalty.
Now, apparently Miss Huckaby and her attorney had some sort of falling out because her attorney asked for a hearing, which is only called when there`s a breakdown in the relationship between the defense attorney and the defendant.
Everyone is called out of the courtroom except the judge, Mrs. Huckaby and her attorney. Apparently they resolved the issue because the judge denied Huckaby`s ability to fire her attorney, and after that happened, that`s when her attorney entered the plea of not guilty.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. According to a jailhouse custody officer`s log, Melissa Huckaby was exhibiting some very strange behavior a couple of weeks ago. Quote, "I saw Huckaby sitting next to her bed with a trash can. When I asked her what was wrong, she replied I took pills."
And then there was this one, quote, "I found Huckaby laying on the floor next to her bed. She stated that she felt dizzy and passed out," end quote.
Dr. Reef Karim, can somebody get high behind bars? Can they take pills that are supposed to be administered for a legitimate reason and hold them and take them at once so that they get high?
DR. REEF KARIM, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Well, you can fake symptoms and try to get medications or pills from the jail doctor, and see if maybe you can take more than you`re supposed to but no, it`s very hard to do that.
You know, I used to evaluate and assess people that were in the jails during my training. And this is an interesting case, because you`ve got somebody who maybe has a mental health problem to start with. And because of that, you`re seeing the excess stress and guilt and whatever else it is cause her to act erratically once she`s in jail.
Or you`ve got somebody who knows they`re screwed and because they`re screwed, they have to start working on their defense, and they`re working on their defense with their behavior in the jail cell.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Stacey Honowitz, is all this cuckoo for cocoa puffs behavior a lead-up to her pleading not guilty by reason of insanity given now prosecutors are seeking the death penalty?
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, certainly she could be trying to mount a defense. The doctor is 100 percent right but the first step is whether or not she`s even competent to stand trial. That`s the first hurdle you have to go through to determine whether or not you can even be in that courtroom when the death penalty is looking down your throat.
So what she could be doing now is acting in that way and maybe the breakdown was that she wasn`t able to assist her lawyer or understand the proceedings and maybe we`re coming down the pike with a competency issue.
And then later on, if she`s deemed to be competent to stand trial, well then the next step is -- is she not guilty by reason of insanity. So all of these things could be playing a role in an upcoming defense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Curtis Sliwa, I don`t want to be in favor of the death penalty. I`m not, but I go back and forth because when I hear crimes like this, hideous crimes of raping a little child and sticking her in a suitcase, I just, my head wants to explode and I change my mind about the death penalty again.
CURTIS SLIWA, FOUNDER, GUARDIAN ANGELS: Oh, thank God you`ve come over to the light side. Away from the feckless weak side of feeling sorry for these insane in the brain individuals.
Look, she is crazy. Anybody to do what she did to that young girl is crazy but you know something? Plop, plop, fizz, fizz, let`s open up the death center in San Quentin the gas chamber and just eliminate her life. Because we don`t need her around; not people like this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it`s a sick, sick case and Nikki Medoro, great job there as a reporter. You`ll come back the next time she`s in court, I`m sure.
We have been talking about drug abuse with the Garrido case and others. It is national recovery month. If you`re in recovery, you are invited to A&E`s recovery rally and march over the Brooklyn Bridge. I will be your mistress of ceremonies. Join me and 10,000 others this Saturday, September 12th.
I talk about my struggle to get sober in my new autobiography called "I Want." I write about how everything in my life changed after I put down my last drink more than 14 years ago. You will not believe some of my personal changes. It`s a shocker, frankly.
To order my book, just go to cnn.com/jane and look for the order section. It`s also in bookstores. If you are battling drugs, booze, sugar or food, or know somebody who is, this book could really help you.
And now for something completely different and completely outrageous: a very, very naughty California assemblyman has resigned after being caught on camera explicitly dishing about his sexual conquest to a fellow lawmaker.
Conservative Republican Mike Duvall, a married family values crusader, bragged to a colleague unaware he was being caught on tape. Watch and listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE DUVALL, REPUBLICAN POLITICIAN: So I`ve been getting into spanking her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are?
DUVALL: Yes, I like it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does she?
DUVALL: Yes, yes. She goes, "I know you like." I said, "Yes, because you`re such a bad girl."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yikes. Sounds like that lawmaker could be in line for a little spanking by his wife.
It gets worse. Mike Duvall`s spankee is allegedly a female lobbyist. A local TV station, my old alma mater KCAL Channel 9 says two women he was allegedly involved with are lobbyists and at least one had business before his committee.
Duvall has since resigned. His statement? Quote, "My decision to resign is in no way an admission that I had an affair. My offense was engaging in inappropriate story-telling."
So you`re saying you were lying when you graphically bragged about having sex with two women who are not your wife.
Back with my panel, and joining me by phone from Sacramento, Shane Goldmacher, reporter with the "Los Angeles Times." Shane, hypocrisy is part of the scandal here.
Ok, we don`t have Shane but this is a question I know that my dear friend Curtis Sliwa would love to answer.
Hypocrisy is part of the scandal here. This guy was pro family values. He had a very -- 100 percent record from conservative groups. He was against the approval of gay marriage because he wants to preserve the sanctity of marriage, but this guy`s a married guy talking graphically -- and I mean graphically -- about having sex with two women who are not his wife.
SLIWA: Yes, but you know something, Jane, it sort of puts new meaning to what a lobbyist does -- wining, dining and pocket lining. These gals were giving him a little shot of leg on the side there to influence him. What a Slobs Lobinski (ph).
Can you imagine? Does this look like a Romeo guy? He`s a greasy guy. I thought guys in powerful positions by day want to be submissive at night. They want the woman giving them the whip with the six inch stiletto heels.
This is totally off the hook, as far as I`m concerned. He`s resigning, he didn`t do it, he was bragging about something he didn`t do. He should have had saltpeter in his cheerios that morning to calm him down.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Duvall had other precious tidbits to share with his colleagues. Let`s listen to the whole shebang, as it were. All right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DUVALL: She wears a little eye-patch underwear. So, the other day she came here with the underwear Thursday.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And?
DUVALL: So, I am getting into spanking her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are?
DUVALL: Yes, I liked it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she?
DUVALL: I like spanking her. She goes, "I know you like spanking me." I said, "That`s because you`re such a bad girl."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
According to the "L.A. Times" the Capital Resource Institute, a conservative self-described pro-family group, has given Duvall a 100 percent score for his voting record on issues concerning the group. They have now denounced him for, my word, hypocrisy.
Stacy Honowitz, why is it always the ones who want to legislate other people`s behavior who get caught with their pants down?
HONOWITZ: Literally. I really don`t have the answer but it does really seem that way. Every time we talk, we hear, you know, news about a lawmaker who`s been involved in something improper, it is always those people that are so hell-bent on being on their soapbox about certain issues.
I think the worst thing that happened besides the idea that he talked about it and besides he had an affair was whoever told him to give that statement. That statement was more stupid than the act that he engaged in. To say he engaged in inappropriate story telling? I never heard that line before.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s going to get it.
HONOWITZ: He should have resigned and walked away peacefully and that was the end.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: From the Mrs. Thank you.
Up next, Diane Schuler`s wrong-way crash killed eight people. What a horror story. You`re not going to believe what another driver did just a couple of miles down the road.
Then Nick Hogan served five months after a horrific accident but now his victim`s getting out of the hospital.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Two years after Hulk Hogan`s son wrecked his car street racing, Nick`s passenger is finally released from the hospital, two years later. So how`s he doing?
We`re going to discuss but first, "Top of the block" tonight.
You won`t believe this one, people: yet another very drunk driver going the wrong way on New York`s Taconic Parkway -- this is the very same highway, in fact, just 10 miles away from where 8 people recently died in a wrong-way crash less than two months ago. Luckily, this latest act of recklessness didn`t have the same consequences as Diane Schuler`s fatal screw-up.
Cops say Gregorio Pena`s blood alcohol level was two and a half times over the legal limit and -- get this -- cops busted this guy in his cab. Thankfully, he didn`t have any taxicab passengers. Could you imagine?
Pena was charged with aggravated driving while intoxicated. He`s expected in court tonight. Let`s hope the judge gives him what he deserves; something that sets an example for the next guy thinking about -- or gal -- boozing it up and getting behind the wheel. When you do that, you are always a potential murderer.
That is tonight`s "Top of the Block."
A horrific car crash: behind the wheel, Nick Bollea, son of wrestling superstar Hulk Hogan. Nick ironically walked away with only minor injuries but his passenger, 24-year-old Iraq war veteran John Graziano, was severely brain damaged. Now after two years at a hospital, Graziano`s mom finally was able to take him home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEBBIE GRAZIANO, JOHN GRAZIANO`S MOTHER: Going home. Today`s the big day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Poor guy. This is a former marine, we`re talking about here. As you can see, he`s unable to move or talk. He is going to need round-the-clock care, all because some celebrity`s kid wanted to have fun in daddy`s car.
Nick Bollea spent five months in jail after a judge ruled he was driving recklessly. He was allegedly street-racing when he crashed head-on into a tree.
While in jail, he chatted with his famous father about getting a reality show.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
HULK HOGAN, WRESTLER: I know was pretty aggressive and he used to yell at people and used to do stuff. And for some reason God laid some heavy (BLEEP) on that kid. I don`t know what he was into.
NICK BOLLEA, HULK HOGAN`S SON: John was a negative person.
HOGAN: He was what?
BOLLEA: He was a negative person.
Will you work on that reality deal?
HOGAN: Yes.
BOLLEA: For me and get that thing lined up so the minute I walk out of wherever I walk out of, it`s there... boom.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, you heard it. They were putting down the victim while they talked about a real-ality (ph) show is how he put it. Real- ality.
Hulk Hogan should be very embarrassed. He`s blaming the victim? He wants to reward his son with a real-ality show?
Back to my fantastic expert panel and TMZ`s very own Mike Walters. Mike, what is the condition of John Graziano today, dare we ask?
MIKE WALTERS, ASSIGNMENT MANAGER, TMZ: Well, like you said, Jane, I think it`s small steps for John Graziano, but we`re told that he finally got to go home from the hospital, where he`s been for over two years. And you know, like you said, I think that his mother, his family, are so happy to finally get him out of the hospital, where he can be with his family.
There are horrific pictures after the accident that came out, where you thought wow, you know, this kid might not make it. I think it`s a miracle that he did, and that he`s made this much progress.
If you look back and I`ve covered the case since day one, I think that it`s just great that he`s getting better and hopefully, miracle being that he might get even better and one day be able to know what`s going on around him.
But real quickly, I wanted to say, Jane, that I covered it from day one from this crash. And I remember even hearing that audio makes me sick inside to hear about Nick Bollea but it is what it is. Nick Bollea has to deal with it.
He`s a young man and from what I hear lately, Nick Bollea has started to try to raise money for the J & J foundation which is to take care of john and his medical issues. He started a Web site, "keep it on the track" to try to teach young people to race on racetracks where there`s licensing and stuff.
So look, I`m not saying Nick Bollea is out of it on this one but I`m just stating the fact it seems like at least when he was that stuff you just played seems so horrible but lately, as of months ago, Nick started to do some stuff to at least give back as much as he can and he did do his time in jail.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s hope he changes. I mean, I believe everybody`s capable of redemption. But some of the stuff that they said behind bars was pretty awful given when you look at this young man who survived heroically fighting in the Iraq war and comes back and gets sideswiped this way, it`s just a nightmare.
Now, there`s a big lawsuit going on. Shocking claims from the guardian of John Graziano, he`s filed a lawsuit on behalf of John`s dad. The suit says Hulk Hogan knew his son was racing cars and drinking the day of the crash. Even worse, this suit claims Hulk was the one who bought the alcohol.
The Grazianos are seeking millions of dollars from Nick`s parents, Terry and Linda Bollea.
Stacey Honowitz, how likely is it that Hulk and Linda, who are now divorced, will be held responsible for their son? Divorced, will be held responsible for their son?
HONOWITZ: Well, it`s a very interesting cause of action, Jane. And certainly if they can have some type of evidence, some type of proof that Hulk Hogan did give his son alcohol and is partly responsible then they could have a very good claim.
I mean, after all, this boy, this man now, has to have round-the-clock care; the money that is due and owing to him for this accident is going to be in the millions.
So while right now we don`t know what evidence there is, obviously they do. They have something, some kind of evidence that they were able to go to a lawyer and say to the lawyer this is what we know and filed this cause of action.
So we`re going to have to wait and see how it plays out. Is it possible? Absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, everything about Hulk Hogan from that crazy head wrap to his behavior to those quotes in jail, say to me he`s emotionally immature and that that has come back to haunt him and his entire family.
Everyone, stay right where you are. More on this young man whose life was ruin by Nick Hogan, after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAZIANO: I felt numb right now. It`s hard to feel emotion but extreme sadness. Every day I go to see my son, John, who was once healthy, handsome, brave marine lying in a bed. I jump with excitement if he moves his eyes toward me, if he`s able to squeeze my hand, even if he`s able to breathe without a tube. No mother should have to live with this the rest of her life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, a whole family devastated by this.
That was Debbie Graziano, her son John just released from the hospital after two long years. He was riding in the passenger seat when Nick Hogan crashed his speeding car into a tree.
Dr. Reef Karim, we don`t know the circumstances. All we know is that in a civil suit, the Graziano`s are alleging that Hulk Hogan bought beer that -- and that the son ended up with beer in his system that day at the time of the crash and he was a minor at the time.
If those fact are true and I don`t know that they are, what is his culpability, Hulk Hogan`s, if not legally, morally?
DR. REEF KARIM, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, obviously morally, it`s huge. And if his son`s a minor and he`s buying alcohol to a minor, alcohol increases impulsivity which is a research fact. And diminishes judgment and you`re driving 110 miles per hour and you basically almost -- like you`re right at verge of killing somebody.
And listen, Jane, I`m still so affected by that audio. I`m still -- I was shaking when I heard that. Because I`ve worked in neuro-rehabs and this poor guy has got a lifetime of learning how to breathe, learning how to move his finger, learning how to eat.
It is a long, arduous process that is just tragic. And to hear talk about a reality show, I mean unless this reality show is about how to not ever do this to somebody, I`m just flabbergasted by that audio. I`m still really...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s why I talked about the emotional immaturity of the parent who is engaging in that conversation with his son as opposed to...
HONOWITZ: Well, Jane...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.
HONOWITZ: Jane, obviously, if you`re having -- look, I don`t know if he was responsible and certainly gets back to the issue, are parents responsible for the torts (ph) of their children? In this case I believe he was charged with DUI. I think that`s what he went to jail for. And if there is proof like I said or evidence that he did contribute in some way to this then there will be liability.
But certainly when you`ve heard that jailhouse phone call, which is so despicable, you have to think to yourself, like you said, the emotional immaturity. Then does it seem possible that he might have been responsible for giving him alcohol? Well, certainly in the big scheme of things if you hear something like that...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes and I...
HONOWITZ: ...you might think it`s possible.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ...seem to remember Stacy, that he wasn`t drunk. But that any alcohol in a minor when their caught driving is a no, no legally.
WALTERS: Right exactly.
VELEZ: Melissa of California your question or thoughts?
WALTERS: Yes, it was .02.
MELISSA, CALIFORNIA (via telephone): Well, I just had a thought, I keep hearing about everybody`s bashing Nick Hogan. And you know it`s true what he did was absolutely horrible and I just think its disgusting to drive while drinking, but Graziano was not a minor. He was an adult.
And if it had been anybody else, the adult should have been accountable. He was the one that chose to get in a car with a drunk driver. He should be responsible...
VELEZ: All right, ma`am, I hear your point. I`m going to give Curtis Sliwa a chance to respond to that one.
CURTIS SLIWA: I don`t know if anyone on the panel has ever been in drag racing. I have with high levels of testosterone and a lot of close calls. And kids should not get involved with it no matter how many movies they go fast and furious. Because what you see there with Nick Hogan is a result of a lot of those drag races, whether you are drinking or not drinking.
It`s Hulk Hogan.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we have to leave it right there.
Thank you, fabulous panel.
Remember to click on CNN.com/Jane and pre-order your copy of my book "I Want."
END
