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Nancy Grace
No Suspect in Yale Student Killing
Aired September 15, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Live to Connecticut and the sudden disappearance of a gorgeous young Ivy League doctoral student just before she`s set to walk down the aisle, the 24-year-old beauty last spotted on grainy surveillance video walking into a Yale research building. A false fire alarm mysteriously goes off in the building. People rush out. Annie Le is never seen again.
At nearly the exact hour Le set to walk down the aisle -- wedding dress on the hanger in the closet, flowers ordered -- the girl`s body is found stuffed in a wall there in a Yale University research building, bloody clothes found high over investigators` heads, hidden beneath ceiling tiles.
Bombshell tonight. Reports today Le`s killer is not a student, but then it`s retracted. Why? If it is known the killer is not a student, do we know who is the killer? And if, so why no arrest? While investigators say they`ve narrowed the pool of suspects, the state medical examiner backs down from a promise to reveal the cause of death. Why?
And tonight: Is the crime scene compromised, ruined for trial or any real evidentiary purpose? Major blunder. The building where Le`s dead body stuffed behind a wall was not sealed for five full days, an evidence nightmare!
With a community and university reeling, a family grieving, and a young groom left at the altar with a broken heart, tonight, all indicators a Yale insider with full access to the crime scene and an intimate knowledge of the building murdered 24-year-old Annie Le, stuffing her body in a wall of her Yale research building.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police are keeping very tight-lipped about this, but all signs are pointing to an inside job.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you made any progress in the investigation in terms of making an arrest?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t (INAUDIBLE) There`s a spokesperson you can talk to...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, but he hasn`t said anything. But you know if there`s been an arrest made?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ll have to talk to the spokesperson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And what about reports that there were a suspect who has defensive marks and failed a polygraph?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to talk to the spokesperson.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say graduate student Annie Le was not the victim of a random attack, and now they`re hunting for the killer who stuffed her body inside a wall in a campus high-security lab.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was last Tuesday when Annie Le left her office just a few minutes up the sidewalk, walked along this sidewalk to her laboratory, 10:00 o`clock in the morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one saw her coming out, and investigators have been reviewing videos frame by frame and poring over blueprints.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The medical examiner is withholding the cause of Annie Le`s death at the request of prosecutors.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight a beautiful, successful Kentucky government insider gunned down in cold blood in the parking lot of an upscale Lexington townhouse. Tonight a high-profile politician from a long line of Kentucky politicos, the chief suspect. But he`s not concerned about murder charges. Oh, no. He says he`s more worried about the outcome of "Monday Night Football."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A former candidate for governor of Kentucky has been arrested for allegedly murdering his ex-fiancee. Kentucky lawmaker Steve Nunn`s (ph) ex-girlfriend, Amanda Ross, was found shot to death outside her own home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nunn is charged with six counts of wanton endangerment after state police say he pulled out a handgun in front of officers at Cosby (ph) Cemetery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When troopers and detectives arrived here at the Cosby Cemetery here in Hart (ph) County, we came across Mr. Nunn. Troopers and detectives observed what appeared to be self-inflicting wounds to his body that were non-life-threatening.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nunn was taken into custody after firing a shot off. Nunn was also charged with violating a protective order obtained against him by the victim, Amanda Ross. In court documents, Ross accused Nunn of striking her and throwing her into a wall. Friends reportedly say Ross was fearful of Nunn in recent weeks, going so far as to buy a gun to protect herself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. At almost the exact hour gorgeous young Ivy League grad student Annie Le set to walk down the aisle -- wedding dress on the hanger in the closet, flowers ordered -- the girl`s body`s found stuffed in a while there in a Yale University research building.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A campus consumed by fear after the murder of a Yale grad student. Police say the death of 24-year-old Annie Le was not a random act. They believe she was targeted by her killer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is probably a case of a murderer on the loose on campus, given the fact you needed a Yale ID to get into the basement where Annie`s body was found.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You certainly got the sense on the campus talking to students and faculty that it would be no surprise that the suspect, when arrested, would be someone from Yale.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Yale professor tells CNN the circumstances of Le`s death suggests there could be, quote, "a murderer among us."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It remains to be seen if the more than 70 surveillance cameras in and around the building will help identify or convict a suspect.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prosecutors have blocked the release of her autopsy results, saying it could hurt their investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We do know that the manner of death is a homicide. Again, they do have the cause of death, but they`re not releasing that at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was as good a human being as you`d ever hope to meet. She was always kind, generous, honest and caring, and the list just keeps going. She was also really tenacious and had a sense of humor that was never far away. And she was tougher than you`d think by just looking at her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Mary Snow, CNN correspondent, joining us there at Yale`s medical school. Mary, what`s the latest? First there are reports that the killer is not -- repeat, not -- a student. Then that is retracted, pulled back. It`s almost as if police say -- tell someone it`s not a student, but they don`t want it disseminated.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There are so many conflicting reports, Nancy. This is what we can tell you. We`re at the New Haven Police Department, lead police organization now in this investigation. A senior official with the New Haven Police Department tells us tonight that they still do not have an arrest warrant, and that they do (ph) not identify a person of interest. And this official told us that they continue to expand the number of people they`re interviewing. And at last count, it was more than 200 people.
This as the investigation continues. And in Middletown, Connecticut - - it`s about 45 minutes away from here -- there`s a police presence at the home believed to be of a Yale medical lab technician. Now, police are not confirming whether or not this is part of their investigation into the murder, but neighbors tell us that there had been a police presence at that home for more than 24 hours.
And as you mentioned, the autopsy report that was supposed to be released today, the cause of death, was withheld, the medical examiner`s office saying that was due to the request of prosecutors, who say they were trying to -- they didn`t want to interfere...
GRACE: Mary...
SNOW: ... with the investigation or...
GRACE: Mary...
SNOW: Yes?
GRACE: Mary, will you back it up again and repeat what you were saying about a police presence at a Yale University lab worker`s residence?
SNOW: In Middletown, Connecticut, we went to a home that is believed to be the home of a Yale lab technician. Now, police would not confirm this. They would not confirm that it`s part of their investigation, but neighbors told us that there had been a police presence at that home for more than 24 hours.
GRACE: When you say police presence, Mary Snow, what do you mean by that, a car parked out front, what?
SNOW: Police entering into the home. We could only go so far in but -- you know, because access was blocked. But they saw police going into that home. They were there this afternoon.
GRACE: And Mary Snow -- everyone, Mary Snow joining us from New Haven, Connecticut, there at the Yale medical school. Mary, what do we know about who lives in the residence?
SNOW: All we know is that it is believed -- there was nobody home, so we cannot absolutely 100 percent confirm who was in that home. It`s believed to be the home of a Yale lab technician. But again, police are not confirming that this is part of the murder investigation.
GRACE: Joining me right now, Pat Brown, criminal profiler, author of "Killing for Sport." You know, Pat Brown, right when Annie Le`s body was found, there were numerous reports thrown out there that there was construction going on in the building. Translation: A construction worker did it, you know, a street, a day laborer. You know, that was put out there almost immediately.
But when it came out that her body was stuffed inside a wall in a basement where only a few Yale insiders had access, it became very clear that it is going to be, most likely, a Yale insider. You just can`t blame all the construction workers that were hired to work at Yale.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Right. And here`s the thing, Nancy...
GRACE: That would have been handy, wouldn`t it?
BROWN: That would be, but here`s the thing...
GRACE: Then you wouldn`t have had some probably rich, educated, possibly a professor or a lab worker getting fingered for a murder.
BROWN: Well, that`s true.
GRACE: Nobody likes that. Nobody wants to think the guy in the cubie next to you, performing experiments, may be responsible for murder.
BROWN: Well, it`s pretty creepy because it would be an insider, then, and everybody gets freaked out about that. And Yale doesn`t really want to think that way. But if it were an outsider, like you were saying, if it were somebody, just a construction worker, somebody who came in there and killed her, he`s not going to waste his time hiding his clothing in the ceiling tiles and hiding her body. He`s just going to run the heck out the door and get out of there, so...
GRACE: You`re absolutely correct. The MO, the modus operandi, the method of operation suggests that it is not random because in random murders, the body is left in full view. Here the killer took great pains to hide the body, in fact, eluding police for many days after the murder
To Thomas Kaplan, editor-in-chief, "Yale Daily News." Thomas, reports came out earlier today that it was, quote, "not a student," the killer is not a student. If they know that -- and I`m talking about police and Yale University president -- if they think that, then do they know who the killer is? And if so, why no arrest?
THOMAS KAPLAN, "YALE DAILY NEWS": Well, I think it`s too early to say whether they know who the killer is. I think they know who had access to the basement when Annie`s body -- where Annie`s body was found. So they`re clearly looking at a couple of people. But do we know the killer? It`s hard to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That this horrible tragedy happened at all is incomprehensible. But that it happened to her, I think, is infinitely moreso. It seems completely senseless.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m walking out of the building where Annie Le, Yale Ph.D., pharmacology student, had her office. She walked out last Tuesday morning, and just minutes later, walked into the building where her laboratory was located. It was along this sidewalk here that Annie Le continued walking for five minutes. And this is where she walked in, in this area, Amistad Laboratory, in the front of the building, which is where the entrance is. It`s the only entrance to the building, and security constantly checks. You have to show your ID. You have to swipe your ID card. And it`s the only way that you can enter.
GRACE: Who would have known this building so well? Who would have known about the basement -- Rupa Mikkilineni said you have to have key access down in the basement -- other than a co-worker, one of the Yale family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re doing all that we can to ensure your security across the campus, and we are cooperating fully with law enforcement authorities. I`m very hopeful that the perpetrator of this dreadful crime will soon be brought to justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back to Mary Snow, CNN correspondent, standing by there at the Yale medical school. Mary, what are cops telling you?
SNOW: Really, police are not saying very much at all. We did talk to a senior police official in the New Haven Police Department, who also contradicted what the president of Yale had been saying yesterday. Remember, he met with students, saying that there had been a limited number of people that really had been narrowed down. This official says, you know, they`ve talked to more than 200 people.
And also, in terms of this investigation, how long it will go on, police are going to start giving briefings twice a day starting tomorrow. They have been so tight-lipped. Does this indicate that they are in for the long haul? This official says, Look, this case, we could have some concrete answers, you know, within days. It could take longer than that. It`s just unclear right now.
GRACE: Well, let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Raymond Giudice, defense attorney out of Atlanta, Jennifer Smetters, attorney out of New York, and Randy Kessler, defense attorney out of Atlanta.
What it says to me, Ray Giudice -- I`m on the outside looking in, of course, as we all are -- is that cops have told the Yale University president some information, like, We`ve narrowed it down. It`s not a student. And the Yale University president blabs it.
RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
GRACE: He blurts it out. And so suddenly, the police are going...
GIUDICE: Right.
GRACE: ... Shh! Stop! We`re going to start having pressers twice a day. We`ll handle anything that`s released to the media. Now, now that that`s pretty obvious to all of us on the panel -- if you disagree, raise your hand -- let`s figure out why they`re doing that. Ray Giudice, why are they trying to throw us or the killer off what`s really happening?
GIUDICE: Well, I think it`s very simple, actually. Law enforcement wants to make sure when they bring the correct defendant or defendants to charges, to trial, that a good criminal defense lawyer doesn`t say, Look, law enforcement, you were under pressure from Yale. You picked my guy or gal, and you`ve built a case around them from day one to the exclusion of all the other potential defendants and options.
GRACE: You don`t have to give me your whole closing argument, Ray!
GIUDICE: Thank you. I`m done.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: OK. I get it. Smetters?
JENNIFER SMETTERS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. I agree. They have to leave the window open right now. I think they know who they`re going after. But in order to do a thorough investigation, and in retrospect being held to that investigation, they have to keep that spectrum open. They know who they`re going after. We all know who they`re going after.
GRACE: To Kessler. Here`s the problem, Kessler. Police have also told our sources that they`re waiting for DNA and, quote, "DNA takes a long time." Guess what? It doesn`t. You can get DNA, I know for a fact, in three days. So if they have a lab worker or some insider they`re considering, or a handful, say 20, 30, why not do a DNA comparison? What`s the hold-up?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know what? You`ve got all these criminal defense lawyers that are itching to say, Rush to judgment. We used it in O.J. Simpson`s case. They used it in the Olympic bomber case.
GRACE: That`s not what I asked you. I asked you about DNA. Are you telling me, Randy Kessler, that you do not believe you can get a DNA result in about three days?
KESSLER: You can get a DNA test immediately if you have a lab that` willing to do it and expedite it. It doesn`t even have to be three days. But they want to make sure they`ve got every duck in a row before they say...
GRACE: Well, don`t you believe that a positive DNA match to bloody clothes up in the ceiling space at the crime scene would be pretty strong evidence, Kessler?
KESSLER: It would. But you know, you make the announcement and that`s it. You can`t take it back. When you make it, you`d better be ready.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our hearts go out to the family of Annie Le. We pray for their comfort and their wellbeing as we honor the memory of Annie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: It was along this sidewalk here that Annie Le left her office building and continued walking for five minutes to the Amistad laboratory where she had her lab. She left her cell phone, her purse and other personal belongings, only bringing her university identification. And this is where she walked in, in this area, Amistad laboratory, and in front of the building, which is where the entrance is. It`s the only entrance to the building, and security constantly checks. You have to show your ID. You have to swipe your ID card, and it`s the only way that you can enter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s our producer on the scene, Rupa Mikkilineni. We are taking your calls live. Out to Patricia in Maryland. Hi, Patricia.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I want to start out by saying God bless you and everything you do for everyone. You help everyone tremendously.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And my question for you is why are they -- why are they withholding the autopsy results? Do you know why?
GRACE: Excellent question. Let`s go back out to Mary Snow, CNN correspondent. Mary Snow -- everyone, you`re seeing high school yearbook photos of Annie Le, and she is absolutely beautiful.
Mary Snow, the medical examiner promised cause of death at 3:00 PM sharp, then they backed off of it. Was it because of police pressure?
SNOW: They say prosecutors requested that it not be released. And I called the prosecutors. They declined any comment about why. The official reason given by the medical examiner`s office was to facilitate the investigation. That`s the reason that was initially given to delay that cause of death.
GRACE: I don`t know how that facilitates the investigation. Ron Shindel, former NYPD deputy inspector, how could clamping down on the autopsy report minutes before it`s to be released facilitate -- facilitate the investigation?
RON SHINDEL, FORMER NYPD DEPUTY INSPECTOR: Well, Nancy, I think what you have now is we`re seeing so much conflicting information that`s coming from Yale. It`s coming from the police department. I think they`re just trying to control the flow of information at this point.
GRACE: Well, hold on. I can tell you a problem right now. On day one, Shindel, I was stunned that the university -- the campus police -- no offense -- were handling a homicide investigation. I mean, come on! First of all, how many murders do you have in Connecticut? That`s just rhetorical. But how many do you have on the Yale campus? You need seasoned homicide investigators investigating a homicide. So I`m wondering if everybody`s wires are getting crossed on this because there seems to be a double jurisdictional issue here between police and the Yale University police.
SHINDEL: Well, I agree, Nancy, but this was first a missing person case, not a homicide.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone is sort of shocked by it. Everyone is in disbelief that something like this could happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was just a very -- a very cool person, very down to earth, you know, always willing to help someone out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A 24-year-old graduate student walked into this medical research building and into a mystery. More than 70 security cameras are around that facility. One caught this image of Annie Le going in but she never came back out.
She disappeared less than a week before her wedding on Sunday. The day she was to be married, police found her body stuffed inside a space inside a wall in the basement of this building. The very building where she was last seen.
People who know this building say to get into that area you have to have a security pass leading to tremendous speculation that this might be an inside job. Police freely admit they have a lot of evidence, but beyond that they`re not saying much.
Many people admit they are nervous. Security has been increased and police say they do not believe it was, quote, "a random killing." But the fact remains a young woman was murdered inside a Yale building surrounded by security cameras and locked doors and a week later police have yet to make an arrest.
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: It was last Tuesday when Annie Le, Yale University pharmacology student, left her office just a few minutes up the sidewalk, walked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls live. To Valerie in Canada, hi, Valerie.
VALERIA, CALLER FROM CANADA: Hi, Nancy. Love you. Love the babies.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you for calling in and thank you for your comment about the twins. I appreciate that.
VALERIE: They`re gorgeous. My comment, Nancy, is about the clothes in the ceiling.
GRACE: Yes, ma`am?
VALERIE: If the killer left his clothes up there, what did he change into? And wouldn`t he be on video like going into the building in one set of clothes and coming out of the building with another set?
GRACE: It could be if he is an insider that he had a locker there. I`ve been wondering that same thing, Valerie in Canada. And I want to go to a very esteemed guest joining us tonight, Dr. Joshua Perper, who is normally joining us from Florida but tonight he`s joining us from San Francisco.
He`s the chief medical examiner in Broward County, author of "When to Call the Doctor." Thank you for being with us.
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, MEDICAL EXAMINER, AUTHOR OF "WHEN TO CALL THE DOCTOR": You`re welcome.
GRACE: Dr. Perper, isn`t it true that the blood taken from the clothes that were found there in the ceiling of this building, they`re not the victim`s clothes -- isn`t it true that you can get a blood result in about three days or less sometimes?
PERPER: Absolutely, because the DNA fingerprinting should be done in this instance as rapidly as possible and it can be done. And I think that the reason why they don`t want to release the autopsy results is because the medical examiner determined the cause of death and they don`t want to have this cause of death publicized so the defendant cannot argue later on that he got this information from the media.
GRACE: Now, Dr. Perper, that is an excellent observation. An excellent observation. Dr. Perper, how quickly have you in your expertise -- you`ve handled literally thousands, I believe many thousands of autopsies -- how quickly have you seen DNA turned around? How quickly can that test be done?
PERPER: Well, it varies. And also it varies about a particular case. If it`s a homicide, obviously it`s a high-priority case and, therefore, it can be done in several days. If it`s a case in which there`s a question of an accident or a suicide, then obviously it`s going to take longer because there`s no...
GRACE: You mean those go down lower in the list of priority?
PERPER: Correct.
GRACE: Got it. To Pat Brown. Pat Brown, isn`t it true that there are DNA test that can be done in the field?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "KILLING FOR SPORT": Well, there are those that can be done quite quickly. But I want to say something about the clothing. What if it`s her blood and that`s all they have? Maybe they thought they were going to have his blood on it so they could make the arrest. It comes back, oh, my god, it`s just her blood.
GRACE: But that`s not what they`re saying, Pat. You`re absolutely right. That`s a possibility. But what they`re saying is we don`t know about the shirt because DNA, quote, "takes a long time." It doesn`t take a long time.
BROWN: That may be the excuse because they`re kind of stuck at the moment.
GRACE: So that is absolutely a lie. That`s a lie. That is not true. Do they think everybody is idiot? There are lawyers and scientists like Dr. Perper out there, people with expertise like the lawyers on this panel, you, a criminal profiler, Shindel, the former deputy inspector.
We all know that you can get a DNA result back in less than three days, so why are they putting this out there?
Mary Snow, why are police and Yale University police, the campus police, too, I might add, stated at the beginning there`s no sign of foul play?
You know, Mary, they had her pocketbook, her cell phone, all of her belongings left in one building. She`s disappeared and they say there`s no sign of foul play. That`s when we first got a hold of this case when the campus police were saying there`s no foul play.
Mary, why are they disseminating so much false information, obviously false information?
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That is any information, Nancy, is the big question. I mean police have been so tightlipped and you have seen the various reports that have come out in the past couple of days. We have not had a briefing since over the weekend.
And police have not commented on these various reports so it`s a big question mark. Tomorrow we`ll get a chance to ask some questions. Tomorrow morning.
GRACE: To Thomas Kaplan, editor in chief, "Yale Daily News." Thomas, please tell me I`m wrong. Please tell me that this murder scene was not left unsecured, uncordoned off, no yellow tape, nothing, for five days. Please tell me I`m wrong. I want to be wrong. I want to be corrected on air.
THOMAS KAPLAN, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, YALE DAILY NEWS, NEWSPAPER BROKE STORY OF MISSING YALE STUDENT: No, Nancy, you`re right about that. We actually have two of our reporters on Friday go into the basement, at 10 Amistad Street, and looked around.
GRACE: Oh, good lord in heaven.
KAPLAN: Two days later they found her body.
GRACE: Who went in the basement?
KAPLAN: How did that happen? They went into the basement, yes.
GRACE: Who?
KAPLAN: Now, not necessarily the part of the basement where Annie was found but they were in the basement, yes.
GRACE: Who? Who? Who went in the basement?
KAPLAN: Two of our reporters went down there, Yale students, swept their ID and went down into the basement on Friday. This was 72 hours after Annie first went missing.
GRACE: OK. Unleash the lawyers. Dare I say it, Smetters, Giudice, Kessler. Well, you can go ahead and tell the viewers what you`ll do with that at trial. Go ahead, Giudice.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, that is about as contaminated a crime scene. It`s like me going down there and throwing all my fraternity brothers` clothes down there and wiping around the floor and then running out the door. I mean it`s a mess.
GRACE: Kessler?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Same thing. I mean now the defense is going to be the clothes were planted, someone put it there to make it look like it was an insider job. And maybe it wasn`t. I mean.
GRACE: You`re right.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: That thought of planting hadn`t yet crossed my mind, Kessler. Thank you for the devious thought you`ve just thrown out there.
Smetters, what about it?
JENNIFER SMETTERS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Chain of evidence, obviously contaminated. But let`s just hope for the sake of Annie`s family that there`s some physical evidence on her body and on those clothes that can link her killer.
GRACE: Joining me right now is a very special guest, Michael Torres. This is a very dear friend of Annie Le`s. He attended a scholarship program with her.
Michael, thank you for being with us.
MICHAEL TORRES, FRIEND OF ANNIE LE, ATTENDED NH SCHOLARSHIP PROGRAM W/SLAIN STUDENT: Thank you, Nancy.
GRACE: Michael, how excited was she about her wedding?
TORRES: I mean, you could just tell leading up to the months behind her wedding that she was very much excited. I mean, as a graduate student, we seem to be very filled with that but as the time was getting closer, her thoughts and the things that she was saying switched over to all about the wedding.
I mean, and every single -- a couple hours on Facebook, you know, was wedding this, wedding that. And she was.
GRACE: Like what? What were her plans? What was she saying about the wedding which coincidentally was around the same time her body was found stuffed in a wall?
TORRES: Yes. I mean, she was just -- I think most of it was relating to being physically fit for her dress and, you know, typical girl things, wanting things to be perfect and just getting excited. You know, just really thrilled to finally reach this milestone in her life.
GRACE: Oh, we`re showing you their wedding invitation. What do you know about the groom? I feel so bad for him.
TORRES: Yes. So I`ve met John a couple of times.
GRACE: Yes.
TORRES: . during our program and although, you know, he seemed very quiet, you didn`t have to know a lot about him by meeting him because Annie would fill in all the blanks whenever she got a chance to. I mean.
GRACE: What would she say about him?
TORRES: Just you could tell just how much they were in love and, like, they were such a great couple. So much of her life was revolved around maintaining this relationship with, like, her best friend, you know. It was really sweet to see that.
GRACE: You`re seeing photos of Le and her fiancee from Facebook.
To Lauren Howard, psychotherapist, do you believe her murder could have anything to do with the timing of her wedding?
LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: It`s a little bit too coincidental to not be meaningful and the nature of the crime seems to be some act of obsession. One thing we know for sure, she did not intend to be in that lab for long. She left her cell phone and her bag, left all the stuff. It sounds like she ran over there to get something and got waylaid. I think it is not a coincidence. That`s just my gut feeling.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives and investigators right now have a large amount of physical evidence at the scene that we`re going through to determine if it`s linked to this case or not. So we`re not releasing any information at this time because we have an ongoing homicide case so we can`t tell you what we have, whether we found anything or what it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The president of Yale was saying, in his words, abundance of evidence. He said that he is confident that the culprit will be caught and arrested but that he did not have a time frame. Police have been insisting throughout the day that they do not have a suspect in custody and they`re also saying, though, that this was no random act.
GRACE: I detect an inconsistency. If they say they don`t have a suspect, then how do they know that other people are not in danger?
SNOW: That is something that`s been echoed by many here on this campus, the fact that there hasn`t been this call to be careful about someone who`s on campus, has certainly led many to believe this is an inside job.
But the fact that the medical examiner did not reveal the cause of death right now also leads you to believe that perhaps -- it leads you to believe that they`re making progress in this investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to the lines, Shirley in Tennessee, hi, Shirley.
DEBRA, CALLER FROM TENNESSEE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: No, Shirley. Debra, Alabama, hi, dear. Debra, are you with me?
DEBRA: Yes.
GRACE: Hi, dear, what`s your question?
DEBRA: My question is if she had nothing with her except the card to get in, I want to know has anybody checked her phone records, cell phone or office phone to see if she received a call to ask her to go to the lab?
GRACE: Good question, Debra in Alabama. You know I`m so afraid, Thomas Kaplan, that since the university police, maybe they were under the influence of the runaway bride, Jennifer Wilbanks. Remember her? When they announced there was no foul play at the beginning. But do you think maybe it dawned on them to check her cell phone records?
KAPLAN: I think it`s probably a safe assumption that that`s been done. Now as we`ve said, you know, the police have been very reticent to release information about what they`ve done in investigating this. So we don`t have those kinds of details. I think it`s a safe bet that they did that.
GRACE: And I want to go very quickly, back to Lauren Howard, psychotherapist joining us out of Manhattan.
Lauren, explain to me why you do not believe it is a coincidence that she was murdered just before her wedding.
HOWARD: This is clearly, and I think Pat Brown could speak to this as well, clearly this -- what we`re hearing about this body stuffed in a wall, just the whole sort of manner of attack. We don`t know the cause of death yet but it seems like a crime of passion.
It seems like the product of an obsessional kind of misguided anger. This is not a -- this girl is 90 pounds. She doesn`t walk into a lab and does something that angers somebody or catches them in the midst of something and they kill her and stuff her body in a wall.
There is an element to this of intimacy and that is why I don`t think it`s a coincidence because of the nature of the physicality.
GRACE: Right.
Everybody, you`re seeing private home video of Annie Le. It`s 2005 video from ABC`s "Good Morning, America," and very quickly, back to Pat Brown. Can you follow up on what Howard just said?
BROWN: I absolutely agree. This is not a serial killer who just grabbed a girl and was, you know, running by him. This is somebody who targeted her. But I wouldn`t necessarily call it a crime of passion, which I don`t believe in anyway. I think crimes of passion are really crimes of opportunity.
You were thinking it. Just you had a chance to chance to do it. So I think this person was focused on her. She came in. He was angry about the wedding. She`s turning him down. Going for somebody else. Boom, he nailed her.
GRACE: Switching gears, I want to tell you about a murder that goes down in a very ritzy area of Kentucky. And now the chief suspect is the former governor`s son, a Kentucky politico. He seems more worried about "Monday Night Football" than he does about murder charges. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Once a gubernatorial candidate now an inmate in jail.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Former gubernatorial candidate Steve Nunn has been charged with murder in the shooting death of his 29-year-old ex- fiancee, Amanda Ross. Nunn was arrested shortly after police discovered Amanda Ross` body outside her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Stephenie Steitzer from "The Louisville Courier-Journal." Stephanie, I understand his girlfriend/fiancee was gunned down. This is after numerous domestic calls and who is the suspect? All of us that are not Kentucky politico insiders.
STEPHENIE STEITZER, REPORTER, LOUISVILLE COURIER-JOURNAL: Sure, Steve Nunn is the former state lawmaker. He was a legislator for 12 years in the Kentucky state house. He was a candidate for governor in 2003 and he is the son of former governor Louie Nunn, a Republican.
GRACE: And, tell me, she was gunned down out in a parking lot?
STEITZER: It was around 6:00, 6:30 in the morning. She lived in a gated townhouse community in downtown Lexington and she was on her way to work. She was found gunned down in the parking lot, yes.
GRACE: Joining me, also, is a very dear friend of the victim in this case, Amanda Ross. Dale Emmons is joining us.
Dale, is it true that there had been numerous problems with domestic violence with this guy?
DALE EMMONS, CLOSE FRIEND OF MURDER VICTIM, AMANDA ROSS (via phone): Yes, certainly, and court records reflect that Amanda had sought emergency protective order in court and it was awarded that order. And she was under the orders of protection when she was murdered.
After the order was initially instituted, there were subsequent violations and court proceedings that required them to order him again to do things like give up his weapons which he failed to do obviously because according to what the police say, he murdered her and he did it in an ambush style, in the morning as she prepared to leave her home inside a gated community.
GRACE: This is what I don`t understand, Dale Emmons. Since there was a protective order in place against him, Steve Nunn.
EMMONS: Right.
GRACE: What was he doing with weapons? Why did they let him off the hook because he`s the governor`s son?
EMMONS: No, I don`t think that it`s accurate to say they let him of the hook because he was the governor`s son. They ordered him not to have weapons. He agreed not to have weapons. Yet he violated the order. And unfortunately, the circumstance we`ve now found ourselves in is that Amanda has been murdered and he`s been charged with murder and we`re going to have a trial.
GRACE: To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, I`m stunned that there`s been so many complaints by her about this suspect and yet he still was allowed to carry weapons, he had not done any hard jail time. Nothing and it reeks, it reeks of political favoritism. And now she`s dead, Ellie.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Right, Nancy. And he could face federal weapons charges for having a weapon while he was under a protective order.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A former candidate for governor of Kentucky has been arrested for allegedly murdering his ex-fiancee. Kentucky lawmaker Steve Nunn`s ex-girlfriend Amanda Ross was found shot to death outside her own home. Hours later, Nunn was found by police at a local cemetery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And what can you tell me, Stephenie Steitzer, about this guy going in ahead of time and trying to change the headstone for his own grave? What was he going to commit a murder-suicide but then somehow he lived and she didn`t?
STEITZER: Well, the speculation has been for days that he was making preparations, we know from speaking with the Monument Company owner that he did in fact go in and request some changes to his headstone. The Monument owner won`t tell us exactly what Mr. Nunn wanted on his headstone.
We also know that he had dinners with friends and maybe made comments about that he was feeling depressed and maybe thinking about death. So there are a number of signs.
GRACE: Oh, depressed, blah, blah. To Smetters, Giudice, and Kessler.
Giudice, he`s depressed so he murders her? Why do they always claim that they`re going to commit suicide but they end up killing everybody else?
GIUDICE: Yes.
GRACE: And they live.
GIUDICE: I understand.
GRACE: Depressed.
GIUDICE: I don`t think that`s going to be much of a defense at all.
GRACE: You know, I agree, Smetters. Jennifer Smetters, joining us out of New York. Depression is not going to cut it with mental illness as a defense.
SMETTERS: Absolutely not. I am -- I`m sickened by this. I am so passionate about orders of protection. I get them for my clients in my practice all the time. Those orders are only as good as the paper they`re written on. They need to be enforced. Family members need to get around and know.
I feel so sorry for this woman, orders of protection need to be enforced.
GRACE: Everyone, Kessler, I`m sorry, I`ve got to go to our American hero.
Let`s stop and remember, Army Specialist Stephen Elrod, 20, (INAUDIBLE), North Carolina, killed Iraq, on a second tour, highly decorated with a Bronze Star, National Defense Service Medal, Overseas Service Ribbon, Iraq Campaign Medal.
Remembered for a beautiful smile. Dreamed of studying marine biology, playing basketball at Boise State. Leaves behind parents Karen and Danny, three brothers and sisters.
Steven Elrod, American hero.
Thanks to our guests bur especially to you. And a special good night from Georgia friends of the show, Jared, Katherine and birthday boy, Ben.
Happy 24th birthday, Ben.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, until then, good night, friend.
END
