Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Sen. Max Baucus Releases A Comprehensive Health Care Reform Proposal Online For Public Scrutiny; More Details of the Annie Le Case
Aired September 16, 2009 - 10:58 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, everyone. It's Wednesday morning, the 16th day of September. Here are the top stories for you in the CNN NEWSROOM.
A $856 billion health care reform plan emerges in the Senate this morning. Republicans don't like it, even some pushback from Democrats.
Late developments in the murder of Yale grad student Annie Le. A young man is handcuffed and held for several hours, then released.
The FDA green-lights new swine flu vaccines. China says it is ready to begin mass inoculations against H1N1.
Good morning, everyone. I'm Tony Harris, and you are in the CNN NEWSROOM.
After so many months and so many pitched battles over health care, finally today, we have an actual proposal to debate from Senate Finance Committee chairman Max Baucus. It's posted -- it posted an hour ago online. 220 pages in all. We started dissecting it for you.
Let's get right to CNN congressional correspondent Brianna Keilar on Capitol Hill. And Brianna, what are you learning?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Tony, the price tag here: $856 billion, according to Senator Max Baucus, who put this out. That's on the -- really, more than $100 billion less than any of the other bills that we have seen in Congress at this point. Also, the main - I guess, the main point of this proposal is that health care cooperative, the nonprofit health care cooperative. This is an alternative to the that government-run insurance plan, the so-called public option.
Also, I want to talk, Tony, about a couple flash point topics. There were some really sticking points in the last few days that Republicans in so-called Gang of Six on Senate Finance Committee had their concerns about and we're trying to find a resolution to, even though they are not yet on board with this plan. There is some language in the summary about that.
For instance, no federal funds for abortions. There will be no mandate for private insurers to cover abortion beyond, right now, what is considered acceptable by law. Federal funds, for instance, for abortion in the case of incest, rape or if a mother's life is in danger.
No money for illegal immigrants, for them to get subsidies that would help pay for health insurance. It talks about verifying whether someone is a legal immigrant through the Social Security Administration, also through the Department of Homeland Security.
And then the topic of medical malpractice. This is interesting, Tony, because this is something that matters a lot to Republicans. President Obama brought this up in his speech. Republicans say that a lot of the threat of lawsuits prompts a lot of doctors to practice defensive medicine.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR, CNN NEWSROOM: Yes.
KEILAR: And that drives the cost up. What this summary includes is something that says it's the sense of the Senate, the states really need to do something to look for an alternative to litigation, but that's just a sense of the Senate. They're sort of saying we should move in this direction, but there's really nothing like a cap on those lawsuits in here.
HARRIS: Got you, Brianna. And let's make this point as clear as possible here, crystal clear, if we can.
KEILAR: Yes.
HARRIS: We're really talking about a summary, an extended proposal. This is not a bill we're talking about just yet.
KEILAR: If you look at it, it's not bill language, Tony. But we certainly don't want to downplay just how essential this very detailed summary of Senator Baucus is. Even though it is not that legislative gobbledygook, this is really the only committee that doesn't put everything into that legislative gobbledygook. Still, these committee members who are going to propose changes here, these amendments they'll start voting on and proposing on Tuesday, they'll do it based on this 223-page very detailed summary. And then in the end, once they come to a resolution with changes they make. That's when it goes into the really complicated language. Quite frankly, Tony, because it would be very hard to understand it any other way.
HARRIS: So, whole this is a very detailed blueprint, we should add that work continues, in that very committee, to actually work through the nuts and bolts of this, correct?
KEILAR: That's right. You'll see, right now, as we speak, offices - especially offices of members on the Senate Finance Committee, they printed this out. They're looking at this. Now that they have something in their hand, they can say OK, I'm cool with that. I'm not cool with that. I want to make this change. And that's what I'm going to proposal next week, when we go through what we call here, a markup. Going through the bill line-by-line and proposing changes.
HARRIS: That's what I'm talking about. All right Brianna Keilar on Capitol Hill for us. Appreciate it. Thank you. Here's how we are dissecting the Baucus summary. We brought together a panel to break down the proposal, including a man who has had his say in helping to craft the plan. Kenneth Thorpe will be here. Our congressional correspondents are reading through the 200 plus, page plan. Our Josh Levs will be popping up throughout the next two hours to tell you specifically what's in it. Politico's Amin Jabbers (ph) will offer analysis on the plan's cost coverage and choice.
We also want you to know exactly - exactly - what is in the proposal. That's our focus over the next couple of hours right here in the CNN NEWSROOM. We're also bringing you the news conference from Senator Max Baucus live in the NEWSROOM. The Finance Committee chairman set to discuss his plan at 12:45 Eastern Time. That's 9:45 Pacific.
Turning now to some other stories you're interested in. Congress formally rebukes Joe Wilson for calling President Obama liar and former president carter essentially labeled Wilson a racist saying last week's outburst was based in racist politics. Mr. Carter then took it one step further saying that racism fuels much of the opposition to President Obama. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY CARTER, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That racism still exists. I think it has bubbled up to the surface because of a belief among many white people, not just in the South, but around the country, that African-Americans are not qualified to lead this great country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: The Republican National Convention issued a statement about an hour ago slamming the former president. Chairman Michael Steele says: "Characterizing American's disapproval of President Obama's policies as being based on race is an outrage and a troubling sign about the lengths Democrats will go to disparage all who disagree with them", end quote.
We want to hear from you on this. Do you agree with -- it's a pretty simple question here. Former President Carter, do you agree with Michael Steele? Pretty clear cut. Send me your thoughts, CNN.com/tony.
Vice President Joe Biden meeting with top Iraqi officials in Baghdad today. He's hoping to smooth political differences as the U.S. military moves ahead with plans to pull troops out of the country by next year. Hours after Biden arrived yesterday, there was an attack on Baghdad's green zone that killed two people.
New developments in the murder of Yale graduate student Annie Le. Police picked up then released a man that works in a laboratory where Annie's body was found. His name, Raymond Clark. We're told he submitted to DNA testing and the investigation remains open.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHIEF JAMES LEWIS, NEW HAVEN POLICE: We're also making sure that there's not other potential suspects so we'll avoid the issue of tunnel vision. We're looking at everyone that had access to that building and could have been there during that time period.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: The Food and Drug Administration gives the OK to four drug companies to make the H1N1 vaccine. We're told limited amounts should be ready early next month, with mass quantities available by mid- month. China also approved new vaccines and plans to vaccinate 65 million people by year's end.
Again, we're going in depth bringing you the information you need to know about the Baucus health care proposal. We have correspondents on the Hill and at the White House, and analysts standing by, as we examine the plan over the next two hours.
Health insurance, should you consider a co-op? Personal Finance Editor Gerri Willis joins me next on that issue And our Josh Levs is examining the Baucus proposal right now. We'll be checking in with him throughout the newscast to see what's really in the plan.
You're in CNN NEWSROOM we're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENT DOW, CNN iREPORTER: As you can see, the river itself has stopped rising and has actually gone down. Though there is a few inches of water still sitting on top of the wall.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I-Reporter Brent Dow reporting from Trinity River there in North Texas, which has been up at least near flood stage for the past couple days, and at some points, been over flood stage and the hits just keep on coming.
Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM.
Here is what is going down as far as flood warnings right now. And they do they continue to stretch into parts of Texas. The upper reaches of the Sabine River, here, just east of Dallas is under a flood warning. And then flash flood warnings for parts of northern Arkansas and another 2 to 3 inches possible today, on top of all of the rain they have already seen in the past couple days, which at this point measures about a half foot.
(WEATHER REPORT)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: The health care reform plan we've been waiting all summer for is out. We are going in depth bringing you the information you need to know about the Baucus proposal. And we have a knowledgeable team of correspondents and analysts to assist us.
The health care overhaul outlined today in the Senate contains many reforms President Obama supports. The plan is likely to be a blueprint for final health care legislation. Key point there. So what's in it? Personal Finance Editor Gerri Willis has been studying the proposal.
And, Gerri, walk us through, if you would, some of the basic elements. Good morning.
GERRI WILLIS, CNN PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR: Good morning, Tony. Good to see you.
Let's take a look at some of these basic elements. First off, people would be required to have basic health insurance. If you didn't have basic health insurance, you could be fined, that's according to some of the findings we found. It would provide tax credits to lower income families so they could afford to purchase health insurance. The plan also would create Web-based health insurance exchanges so individuals could sign up for insurance more easily.
It would also increase Medicaid and put a national standard on Medicaid eligibility since right now eligibility it is up to each state and the rules are different, depending on where you go.
And it would drop, of course, what we've been talking about a lot, the public option provision and allow for the creation of nonprofit health care cooperatives.
HARRIS: Well, OK, I'm trying to read the --
WILLIS: There's a lot.
HARRIS: Yes, there's a lot there.
WILLIS: It's a lot there.
HARRIS: Can you take an extra moment or two and explain the co-ops for us.
WILLIS: Sure. You know, Tony, everybody has heard about co-ops, whether it is agricultural co-ops, or electrical co-ops, credit unions another example. There are already health co-ops in existence today, in places like Seattle and Washington. Co-ops are set up as nonprofit organizations. They say they can provide better coverage at a lower cost for their members because their profits are put back into the system. So any money that's earned is used on patients and other costs. Now, patients and co-ops they really run the whole shebang. They run the board. They hold elections, discuss issues, concerns, have meetings. Under this bill taxpayers would contribute up to $6 billion for co-ops startup money. And it is estimated that co-ops could cover as many as 12 million people.
HARRIS: That's interesting. How would life change in a co-op?
WHITFIELD: Well, you know, for patients, Tony, co-ops work just like private insurance. There are premiums, there are co-pays and like an HMO most enrollees see doctors within a network. Health care in a co- op would be cheaper than private insurance but it's not necessarily always less expensive. It depends on the competition in your market.
Group Health Cooperative, in Washington, that's the last surviving co- op, it became a kind of prototype for the senator's plan. While premiums at Group Health increased by a slower rate compared to competitors, those increases are still big. For individual policies the increases average 12 percent, more than 12 percent, since 2000.
Now, one of the highest hurdles a startup co-op would have is creating a large network of doctors. So the doctor you are used to using, they may not be in that network at first.
HARRIS: OK.
WILLIS: Keep in mind, if the bill becomes law, most provisions won't even take effect until 2014. So, it's a ways out in front of us, Tony. We have a ways to go. It will take a while for consumers to really get their arms around what's in this bill.
HARRIS: So, the co-op is essentially, it will act as an insurance company bringing doctors into the network, hospitals into the network, correct?
WILLIS: But nonprofit.
HARRIS: But nonprofit.
WILLIS: So the money goes back to patients. It goes back to the system. It works like any other nonprofit really.
HARRIS: OK. All right. Gerri, appreciate it. Good information for us.
Josh Levs is dissecting the Baucus plan as we speak. Josh, what are you finding?
JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tony, I made it almost through 100 pages so far. Under this plan everyone in America who has health insurance would have one of four categories of health plans. Think Olympic terminology. We'll show you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Let's get you caught up on our top stories.
No bipartisan support for the Senate's long awaited health care reform proposal. Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus has posted his plan online. He is following up, next hour, with a news conference. And of course, you can watch it here live, 12:45 Eastern, 9:45 Pacific.
Plus, we have assembled a terrific panel to discuss the plan that's coming up in a couple minutes.
In California today, police are searching several properties for evidence that may link Phillip Garrido to kidnapping of two other girls in the late 1980s. Detectives say the cases have similarities to the kidnapping of Jaycee Dugard. Garrido was arrested after Dugard was found alive last month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. KURT VON SAVOYE, DUBLIN, CALIFORNIA POLICE: Some have equated what they're working in back there to looking for evidence in a landfill. It's a very large piece of property with significant debris. So this is going to be a matter of several days before we can wrap this up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Change comes to Japan. That country's new prime minister, Yukio Hatoyama, taking office today. It could mean a change in Japan's relationship with the United States. The former opposition leader is expected to take a hard look at an agreement that allows U.S. troops to be deployed throughout Japan.
Let's keep moving. It's Wednesday. Time to drop in on our Chief Business Correspondent Ali Velshi. He's on CNN Radio, right now - listen closely, you can hear him - answering your money questions.
I'm teasing folks, and there you are. Ali, good to see you, doctor.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Good, I was getting so carried away talking to our listeners. I've got a certain excitement about me right now. I'm thinking it's a new dawn, we're a year away from the failure of Lehman Brothers.
HARRIS: Yes.
VELSHI: And more and more people are saying this recession is over. I got an e-mail from someone, which I don't entirely agree with this morning. Christine got it. That says we have to be more optimistic because the economy is a state of mind. It's not but I'm feeling optimistic.
HARRIS: Well, there are the technical realities and then there is the psychology of these markets. Come on.
VELSHI: Correct.
HARRIS: They go hand in hand here.
VELSHI: Absolutely.
HARRIS: You talked about -- right?
VELSHI: Absolutely. You can't have hand in hand without both hands, though. But you are absolutely right. Psychology is a major part of this economy because two-thirds of our economy, at least before the recession, this may have changed a little bit with all the government spending we have now. But until the recession hit, two-thirds of our economy was determined by choices that consumers made, as opposed to choices government makes. If consumer is feeling strong and hardy like seven elephants they'll go out there, they'll buy things, and they're sure about their jobs. If they're not, money is in the pocket.
HARRIS: So what do you think? So, you get the August retail sales numbers, and there's a nice pop there.
VELSHI: A little higher, yeah.
HARRIS: Do you think that's just one-month occurrence or do you think it is --maybe not at that level but you think it may be a sign that consumers are coming back to the table?
VELSHI: I think we are splitting up. I think at this point in a recession the reality is different for different people. If you are unemployed, this recession -it doesn't matter whether Ben Bernanke or, I say, it is ending. If you are worried about losing your job, you are still being cautious. If you are employed and you're hearing all this good news about housing prices possibly stabilizing, low interest rates, stock market that's up 10 percent for the year and more than 45 percent since the lows in March. And maybe you had your money invested. You are thinking I have dodged the bullet.
Some people are going out there and spending. They have pent-up frustration about not having spent. There's a real reality of many millions of people out there, who either are not working or looking for a job. This is what it will be like for the next year or so as we start to move our way up in this economy. We don't want to start an America with two tracks going.
HARRIS: Gotcha, gotcha.
VELSHI: That's just a recipe for a bad society when you have an underclass and you have an upper class, and you are squeezing out middle class, because nobody is growing into it. This is a big issue we have to think about.
HARRIS: Let's get the phone number. We want to get your -- whenever you're on the show, we give the phone number.
VELSHI: I love it.
HARRIS: And your lines start to rally pop here. 877-266-4189, that's the number to reach Ali at CNN Radio.
One other quick question here, you are joining the Anderson Cooper team. Is it tomorrow night?
VELSHI: Yes.
HARRIS: Tell us about what you guys are working on.
VELSHI: Tomorrow night 11:00 p.m. We'll talk about very specific ways in which you can take advantage of this economy, if it is recovering. And of course those specific ways are in housing, in the stock market, and in employment. We're going to give you some specific information you can use tomorrow night 11:00 o'clock, right here on CNN.
HARRIS: Ali, terrific. We are going to tease it again here, in just a second. But we'll let you get back to your radio show. Always a pleasure, my friend.
VELSHI: Thanks, buddy.
HARRIS: Thank you.
Again, saving your health insurance, while providing it for millions who don't have it. Can it be done? We are looking closely at Senator Baucus' plan. In just a couple minutes leading up to his 12:45 Eastern news conference. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: OK, live pictures here of Capitol Hill, where Congress has a health care reform proposal to examine. The long-awaited draft from Senate Finance Chairman Max Baucus lacks bipartisan support. Baucus discusses the plan live next hour. Right now we're going in depth with a team of knowledgeable correspondents and analysts to bring you the information you need about the Baucus plan; first now, to CNN Congressional Correspondent Brianna Keilar on Capitol Hill.
Brianna, I guess, this plan has been out there for almost two hours now. Any reaction on the Hill?
KEILAR: Yes, we have gotten some reaction from Senator Mitch McConnell, of course, the top Republican in the Senate. He basically blasted this proposal saying that the cuts in it for Medicare, he says, are basically unacceptable. Of course, this has been an issue that a lot of Republicans have had, Tony.
And we've heard from some sources, some Democratic sources, who say that essentially seniors have nothing to worry about because that's really the concern here. And they say, that it's not really a fear that should be realized. But we're trying to get details on exactly, really, how they back that up.
That said, here's some broad strokes about Senator Baucus' very detailed plan. So, $856 billion is the overall price tag. You probably recall we talked a lot about, $1 trillion. That has been the price tag for a lot of the other bills that we've seen in Congress. This is significantly less.
And also the hallmark of this plan is that nonprofit health cooperative, which would be governed by patients that it serves. There is the alternative to the government-run insurance plan. So, what does that tell you, there is no public option here, as we expected in this detailed summary.
And, yes, you mentioned that Senator Baucus has put this out without support from those key Republicans that he's been negotiating with now for months. He doesn't have the support. That is true. We also know, though, that these Republicans have not stepped away from the table. They are going to continue talking with Senator Baucus while this key proposal moves into the next phase, which is all of the senators on this committee looking at it, proposing amendments. And they'll begin voting on those next week, Tony.
HARRIS: All right. That's a pretty tight time line, as I think about it. Brianna Keilar for us on Capitol Hill. Appreciate it. Thank you.
Josh Levs is with us now. He's going through the plan.
Just ahead of the break a moment ago, Josh , you mentioned something about Olympic levels of coverage. What did you mean by that?
LEVS: Yes, I thought that would strike you.
There's some language in the bill that says all plans, basically that are available, that are out there, would be available in the following levels: bronze, silver, gold or platinum. The idea here, kind of similar to the exchanges, that it would help people find what their options are. What we've been seeing from a lot of lawmakers is this basic thinking that the more competition and the more clear information people have about what options there are, the more it will do about choices, and about costs, overall in general.
So let me show you some of the language from it. I want to emphasize to everyone it just came out this morning. No one is an expert on it, including me. But I pulled out some language that I think will strike you.
First of all, from the summary. A lot of viewers had been asking about. This is the summary that came along with it. About how will this control cost? They're talking about creating this health care affordability tax credits.
Tony, there's a lot about tax credits. Tax credits for small businesses. I'll show you something there, too. They say it will allow those who like their coverage to hold on to it, and they talk about these key changes involving pre-existing conditions.
Now, over here, I pulled out some language from the bill -- rather from the proposal, I should call. It's not officially the bill itself. And look at what they are saying here.
Issuers in the individual market could vary premiums based only on the following characteristics, Tony. I mean, that's plain and simple language right there. Tobacco use, age and family composition. Now, that really speaks to everyone at home. Because when you look at how much you're getting charged versus how much someone else, there all sorts of other factors right now. That's actually really significant.
We have one more minute. Let me just zoom back in, because there's also a little bit of language. I think you'll be interested in here. It said there could be some regional changes as well that can help determine it. And I want to mention this, Tony. A lot of people are concerned not just about what would it cost you, the individual, but small businesses in America. What would it cost them?
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Right.
LEVS: There's very specific language here about businesses that have 100 employees or fewer, being able to kind of skirt some of the requirements that are being established that say that employers have to provide coverage. Key parts of the language about cost inside this proposal. We'll see if it ultimately turns into a piece of legislation.
HARRIS: terrific. All right, Josh, appreciate it. I know you're with us throughout the morning. We'll get back to you shortly.
We put together a terrific panel to discuss this Senate version of health care reform particularly the cost. And that's how we're going to try to break this out. We'll talk about cost right now, and then coverage and choice a little later.
Professor Kenneth Thorpe chairs the Department of Health Policy and Management at Emery University.
Professor, good to see you. Thanks for being here.
PROF. PROFESSOR KENNETH THORPE, CHAIRMAN, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH POLICY AND MANAGEMENT AT EMERY UNIVERSITY: Thank you.
Eamon Javers is a financial correspondent for Politico.com.
Eamon, as always, thanks for being here.
And Lori Montgomery covers health care for the "Washington Post."
Lori, good to see you as well.
Professor Thorpe, let me start with you.
First of all, let me establish a bit more of your credentials here. Is it true to say that you've actually had some conversations with the Senate Finance Committee in terms of providing some guidance, some input at least to frame out the discussion?
Is that correct to say?
THORPE: Well, I've been asked on a number of occasions from the staff to help them think through some of the tactical aspects of the bill. So I've had the opportunity and the pleasure of working with the staff to work out some of the tactical fine points of what you see in front of you today.
HARRIS: Great. I say all that to say you know what's in here. You know what we're talking about here. So let's talk about cost here.
Professor, when we talk about cost, let's be clear. What are we going to be paying for here? Are we talking about an expansion of Medicare/Medicaid? You've often told us to think about this as Medicare plus. So what are we paying for, and how is it paid for in the Baucus plan? THORPE: Well, if you have health insurance through your employer today, essentially you'll keep it. So you'll keep what coverage you have today if you currently get it through an employment base.
Everybody has been focusing on the exchanges. And if you're an individual self-employed, a small business, you would have the opportunity to buy private health insurance coverage as you just heard Josh talk about, that varies in terms of how much cost sharing you would put out.
So the less generous bill you would pay about 30 percent, 35 percent in terms of deductibles and co-pays, all the way to a more generous private plan where you would pay about 10 percent of the cost. So it would be up to your choice to pick whatever private plan you want, or if it lasts, a not for profit co-op plan that would offer those same options.
HARRIS: OK. Eamon, let me have you weigh in on this as well.
What are we paying for, and how will we get it done?
EAMON JAVERS, FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO: Well, part of what we're paying for is expansion of health care coverage to as many as 30 million Americans who don't have health care insurance right now. That cost money to provide that. And how we're going to do that largely is through fees and taxes that are levied on industry players up and down the system depending on where they are and where they rank in this bill.
And the other way we're going to pay for this, and this is pretty interesting. This so called young invincibles. I love that term.
HARRIS: Yes.
JAVERS: Young people who think that they're invincible. They'll never going to get sick and then say, you know what, forget it. I'm not going to buy health insurance. I'm just going to save the money. Those people will be forced to buy health insurance whether they like it or not. And if they don't, they're going to have to pay a fine for not having health insurance much the way we do today with car insurance. You have to have auto insurance to drive a car in case you hit somebody else and need to pay for that guy's bumper when you do some damage. The same principle is going to be applied now to health insurance.
HARRIS: Got you.
Lori, look, the Finance Committee is trying to bring this bill in and around, what is it, $856 billion over ten years. The question is, you know, there are shifting numbers as to how many people will be covered by this. Can it be done at this number? $856 billion? What is your analysis tell you about the cost of this? The actual cost?
LORI MONTGOMERY, WASHINGTON POST: Well, we don't really know what the actual cost of this. I mean, this is presumably a forecast from the Congressional Budget Office, which is the arbiter of what these things cost. And they are telling Senate Finance Committee that this thing is going to cost $856 billion over the next ten years.
They're also telling them so they tell us that the way they pay for it, which is a mix of savings from Medicare and new taxes and fees on insurance companies and other providers is going to more than cover the cost. So they're not saying that they have a paid for plan. They're saying they have a plan that is going to save the government money over the next ten years and start to reduce these skyrocketing deficits.
HARRIS: I see. I see.
And Professor Thorpe, let me come back to you, because you've suggested that the cost will -- to really do this effectively is more like a trillion, maybe as much as a trillion five or trillion eight. Explain how you come to those numbers.
THORPE: Well, those are based on earlier drafts from the finance committee. They've made several changes in the current proposal that Senator Baucus put out today, that basically changed the benefits and changed the federal subsidies. So that did reduce the overall cost of the package down to about 860 billion over the next ten years.
I think the best thing you can say is that we know these are estimates. You know, the best attempt from the congressional budget office to get it right. We also know that estimates are always generally wrong.
HARRIS: Yes.
THORPE: So the provision the president talked about last week I think is really important for the listeners to understand is that to the extent that the revenues and the savings don't generate enough to fund a program, the president suggested that we put in an automatic trigger that would trigger additional spending cuts to pay for it. So I think that that's a nice reassurance that he put out there to make sure that this really is paid for.
HARRIS: OK. Professor Thorpe, thank you.
Eamon, thank you.
Lori, thank you.
We're going to continue this conversation next hour right here in CNN NEWSROOM with this terrific panel.
Allegations of grave desecration. A former cemetery worker tells us he personally broke open crypts and dumped bodies all on the orders of his bosses. It's a CNN's special investigations unit. Investigation, that's coming up right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Let's get you caught up on our top stories now.
No bipartisan support for the Senate's long-awaited health care reform proposal. Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus has posted his plan online. He is following up next hour with a news conference, and you can watch it here in the CNN NEWSROOM, live, 12:45 Eastern, 9:45 Pacific. Important information in that news conference.
A number of murders in ciudad Juarez, Mexico has reached a new high. A city spokesman said there have been 1,647 drug-related deaths so far this year in this city just across the border from El Paso, Texas. That's more killings than all of 2008. The killings stem mainly from a turf war between two drug cartels.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is raising concerns Venezuela will set off an arms raised in South American. Venezuela is buying tanks, missiles and anti-aircraft systems from Russia. Clinton wants guarantees the weapons won't fall into the hands of drug cartels or insurgent groups.
On Wall Street, stocks are rising to their highest levels in nearly a year. Yesterday, Ben Bernanke said the recession is likely over, and today new economic reports are supporting that view.
Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange.
You know what, this is good news. You should be on the floor of the Exchange, instead of in that little cubby hole that you're in.
Susan, good to see you. Pass along the latest market reaction.
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm going to save the floor for you, as well as a cup of champagne to go along with it.
HARRIS: I love it.
LISOVICZ: The gains today, well, they're not explosive, but you know, we have seen the market rally, Tony Harris, since the beginning of March. The Dow is now up 10 percent for the year. The S&P 500 is up 16.5 percent for the year. The NASDAQ is up -- wait for it -- 33 percent for the year.
HARRIS: That's what I'm talking about.
LISOVICZ: Right. And, you know, the positive momentum today coming from reports showing that consumer prices are holding steady. Industrial production jumped last month. That's the second straight increase. The factories showing that they're boosting production of cars, machinery, food products, clothing. So we are seeing green arrows across the board here. The Dow right now is up half a percent. The NASDAQ, S&P 500, each up as much.
Budweiser shares, by the way, are up one percent. Or I should say Bud. B-U-D, it is back on the big board. Anheuser-Busch was bought, as I'm sure you know, Tony...
HARRIS: Oh yes.
LISOVICZ: ...by Belgium's InBev last year. InBev makes Stella Artois. In fact, it made the world's largest brewer even bigger, moved the company's primary listing to Brussels, but now there is a re-listing here under the former ticker named for its bestselling beer -- Anheuser-Busch. InBev officials rang the opening bell to celebrate the listing.
Tony, the ceremony and the celebration were noticeably free of Clydesdale horses and cold beverages of any kind.
HARRIS: It's simple, we need to crack one open.
Look, can you imagine what we would be saying today if the job's picture were little better with all of the other good news that's starting to develop? Can you imagine? We would really have to pop open that bottle of champagne that you mentioned.
LISOVICZ: Oh, yes. And it would not be served in a paper cup, Tony. We would upgrade that vessel.
HARRIS: Just put it in a brown paper bag. That's how I like it.
Susan, good to see you. See you next hour.
LISOVICZ: OK.
HARRIS: And still to come in the NEWSROOM, serious allegations of cemetery desecration. An ex-worker tell CNN how he broke up old burial vaults to make room for new ones.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Groucho Marx and Lenny Bruce are buried there, but it's possible not everyone at Eden Memorial Park in Los Angeles is resting in peace. Our special investigations unit is looking into allegations that graves have been intentionally torn up and body parts scattered.
Abbie Boudreau is on the case.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBIE BOUDREAU, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This long-time former employee, Mateo Ruelas Garcia, says he was told to break concrete burial vaults to make room for new ones at Eden Memorial Park. He tells CNN just what he would throw away.
MATEO RUELAS GARCIA, FORMER CEMETERY EMPLOYEE: Cement pieces, sometimes a little piece of bones -- bones, for the next person were in the dump and trash away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sometimes skulls?
GARCIA: Yes.
BOUDREAU: Garcia explains how a salesman would tell him to break the vaults in secret.
GARCIA: And he would go like this and look, and say, oh, break this piece, break this piece. And I'd tell him, you're we're not supposed to break. And he'd say, go ahead, nobody can see. Go ahead and do that.
BOUDREAU: Using a backhoe, Garcia says he and other workers would break through the cement vaults.
GARCIA: I just broke one piece for the cement -- for the person right there, just a piece of cement, the body inside. And we see the person then because we broke it.
BOUDREAU: Garcia says he would take the remains to a large dirt hole at the cemetery, where nobody could see what was going on.
GARCIA: When the peoples go there, families around, you know, we stop, because they always say stop, guys, when you see somebody coming. No do nothing.
BOUDREAU: Similar allegations are made in a lawsuit filed against Eden Memorial and its owner Service Corporation International. They include claims of secretly breaking and opening buried caskets, dumping human remains and selling burial plots without actually having the space -- all to make more money. Garcia says breaking up the burial plots was common practice for the last 10 of the 28 years he worked at Eden Memorial. He was fired in 2008. He says he wasn't given a reason.
A Service Corporation International spokesperson says he was fired for cause, but declined to give details. In a statement, the company says: "Allegations against Eden Memorial Park have surfaced as a result of a recently filed class action lawsuit. While very salacious, these allegations are just that -- allegations." It says: "Eden Memorial conducts extensive training with its employees and we support that with strict policies and procedures."
Garcia says he was only doing what he was told by supervisors.
GARCIA: No matter what happened in there, bones and everything, you guys go ahead and do the job. They pay me. I'm working. I do anything they told me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Wow.
BOUDREAU: A spokesman for California cemetery and funeral bureau says the agency will look into the allegations raised in the lawsuit. The cemetery did get a warning letter last year after the state found that five graves have been disturbed, but there was no evidence that it was done intentionally.
HARRIS: Abbie, look, the guy you interviewed, he's talking so -- you never -- you never see these people actually --
BOUDREAU: Right.
HARRIS: So, and he's speaking so casually. How do we explain this?
BOUDREAU: I mean, we asked him about that, you know. The thing is he said, well, I've been doing this for 10 to 15 years, and I'm not the only worker to do this. This is something that was more routine. So, I don't know. I guess that is part of the reason that he was just speaking so candidly and openly and casually.
HARRIS: And casually.
BOUDREAU: Very casually.
And that's what's so odd about watching this interview. It's just, you know, why is he talking about it like this? And we do know that since we did air this story, a lot of other people have come forward to, you know...
HARRIS: Yes.
BOUDREAU: ...to find out -- they're concerned about their own loved ones. And as we do more stories about this and find out more details, you know, we'll find out what's going on.
HARRIS: Yes, absolutely. Abbie, appreciate it. Thank you.
BOUDREAU: OK, thanks.
Boy, that's disturbing.
We are dissecting Senator Max Baucus' health care reform plan. We brought together a terrific panel to break down the proposal, including a man who had his say in helping to craft the plan.
Kenneth Thorpe will be here. CNN congressional correspondent Dana Bash and Brianna Keilar are reading through the 200-plus pages, Josh Levs is reading the proposal as well. He's gotten through more than 100 pages, Josh.
We want you to know what is actually in the proposal. That is our focus over the next hour right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: The vaccines for this virus are being produced under careful FDA oversight, using the same licensed manufacturing processes and facilities used for seasonal flu vaccines.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Health and Human Services secretary Kathleen Sebelius assuring the public that the newly-approved H1N1 vaccines are safe. The vaccines are slated to be ready in mass quantities by the middle of next month.
China is already said to begin distributing its vaccines. Those shots are being made in China, and are only for the Chinese public.
Here's CNN's Emily Chang with a view from the production line.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
EMILY CHANG, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a nation of 1.3 billion people, China has long warned an outbreak of H1n1 could be catastrophic.
Now, it's set to become the first country to provide mass inoculations. Chinese company, Sinovac, produced the first successful H1N1 vaccine in the world, and is preparing millions of doses for the public. It's also the only company to produce a vaccine for SARS, the worldwide pandemic that left almost 350 people in China dead.
"The SARS vaccine helped us make the bird flu vaccine, which helped us get the H1N1 vaccine," says the company's CEO. "That's why we were so fast and the first."
Every day tens of thousands of fertilized eggs are infected with the virus. The virus is later extracted and purified.
(on camera): And here is the final product. Inside this vial is a vaccine for the H1N1 virus. Right now it's being bottled and labeled and boxed to be sent across China and fulfill government orders.
(voice-over): The Chinese government has ordered more than 10 million vaccines from Sinovac and two other Chinese companies. It's approved for people aged 3 to 60. Priority will be given to children, soldiers, police, medical and transport staff.
As with any vaccine, world health officials have warned of possible side effects, and some Chinese are skeptical.
"I don't think my baby will get the swine flu, so the vaccine seems unnecessary," says this mother. "And what if it affects his health in the future?"
Still, health authorities have heavily publicized the virus's risk. This young patient seen with her doctor via video screen before crowds of journalists. They've also rolled out a traditional Chinese medicine prevention plan. China has taken perhaps the most extreme measures worldwide to prevent the virus' spread. Officials boarding international flights, checking passengers' temperatures before granting entry. Thousands have quarantined including entire flights and school groups from around the world.
Though no one in China has died from the virus yet, infections are accelerating. Of more than 9,000 cases so far, more than half of them happened in the last few weeks.
VIVIAN TAN, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION, CHINA: It's basically affected all -- all provinces of China, and we are worried because of the sheer number of people involved which could place a huge burden on the health care system.
CHANG: With flu season starting and school back in session, there's concern the virus could mutate, or combine with other strains to create a superbug that could be extremely contagious or even deadly.
Emily Chang, CNN, Beijing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Do you have questions about the H1N1 virus or the vaccine? Send them to us at mailtothechief@cnn.com or tweet us at KyraCNN.
Assistant Surgeon General Dr. Annie Schuchat will be here in the 1:00 p.m. hour of CNN NEWSROOM to answer your questions about H1N1 flu.
All right. Time now for your midday reset.
I'm Tony Harris in the CNN NEWSROOM.
It is noon on Capitol Hill, where a Senate health care reform plan move forward today without Republicans. The Democratic chairman of the Senate Finance Committee plans to take the blueprint public this hour. Will it meet President Obama's definition of reform?
Let's get started.
We get details this hour from the senator who crafted a landmark $856 billion plan to overhaul the nation's health care system. Finance Committee Chairman, Max Baucus, holds a news conference 45 minutes from right now.
Folks are starting to gather in the room.
He posted his proposal online earlier.
Here's a little of what we know.
The plan drops the public health insurance option. Instead, calling for the creation of non-profit health care cooperatives. It would bar insurance companies from dropping a sick policy holder, and adds protections for people with pre-existing conditions, plus no federal money would go for abortions or to illegal immigrants. Baucus, sounding optimistic this morning, about his plan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MAX BAUCUS (D), FINANCE CHAIRMAN: Well, today is a big day. Many steps forward. I look forward to more detailed announcement later this afternoon. It's a big day. I feel very good about moving forward. We're getting a bill out now, an outstanding reform.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What sort of Republicans will be on the bill?
BAUCUS: I think when we finally vote on the bill to the mark up, there will be Republican support.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Baucus' plan comes without the support of Republican senators in his so-called Gang of Six. It is made up of three Democrats and three Republicans from the finance committee.
The Democrats are Max Baucus of Montana, Kent Conrad of North Dakota, and Jeff Bingaman of New Mexico. The Republicans, Olympia Snowe of Maine, Charles Grassley of Iowa and Mike Enzi of Wyoming. They insist they are still working on reaching a deal.
We are covering all angles of this story. Our reporters on Capitol Hill and of the White House are tracking the impact of the Baucus' plan.
