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Senate Plan Lacks Bipartisan Deal; Senate Health Reform Plan; The Baucus Plan

Aired September 16, 2009 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: The Republicans, Olympia Snowe of Maine, Charles Grassley of Iowa and Mike Enzi of Wyoming. They insist they are still working on reaching a deal.

We are covering all angles of this story. Our reporters on Capitol Hill and at the White House are tracking the impact of the Baucus plan. Plus, we'll be checking with our Josh Levs, who is going through the proposal right now and you will hear from Professor Kenneth Thorpe, Chairman of the Department of Health Policy and Management at Emory University, As well as Eamon Javers, financial correspondent at POLITICO.com. A lot going on here.

More positive economic news to share with you. The core of the consumer price index rose 1.4 percent in the past 12 months, raising little concern over inflation and factory output rose for the second straight month, posting a 0.8 percent gain. Auto production led the way, due mainly to the government's cash for clunkers program.

The murder of Yale graduate student Annie Le. Police are investigating a university employee who worked in the laboratory where Le's body was found. Raymond Clark was released from police custody early this morning after a questioning and DNA testing. New Haven Police Chief James Lewis gave us an update on the investigation.

JAMES LEWIS, POLICE CHIEF, NEW HAVEN: We've at this point looked at about 700 hours worth of video. We've interviewed over 150 people. Some we interviewed the second time. We got over 150 pieces of evidence seized so far. It's at the lab. Much of it's already at the lab. We expect to gather more this evening during these two search warrants to send to the lab, and once we continue through this process, we try to narrow down who the suspect is in this horrendous crime.

HARRIS: An alleged campus gang rape has students concerned about their safety. They say they first learned about the Sunday morning incident at Hofstra University from the media or Facebook not from the Long Island School.

FEMALE 1: We should have gotten an e-mail. We should have gotten a cell phone alert. We should have gotten anything to say that this happened.

FEMALE 2: I can't believe it. Normally I feel like this is a really safe campus. HARRIS: A university official says they notified -- that they notified students Monday afternoon through an internal home page. The school says it only sends text and e-mail alerts when there is an imminent threat. Four of the suspects, including one Hofstra student are charged with rape.

The votes are all tallied, and it appears Afghan president Hamid Karzai won by more than 54 percent of the vote in last month's election. But Karzai will have to wait for certification; the election is tainted with charges of fraud. European Union observers say more than 1.5 million ballots are suspicious; they've already tossed out more than 220,000 votes.

And back now to our top story, the long-awaited senate health care reform proposal from Finance Committee Chairman, Max Baucus price tag, $856 billion over 10 years, no Republican support. Live now to CNN Congressional correspondent, Brianna Keilar on Capitol Hill. And, Brianna, what are you learning?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No Republican support at this point, Tony, but -- which is obviously not what Senator Max Baucus, the Democratic Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, wanted to hear but they haven't stepped away from the table. They are going to continue to negotiating clearly down to the wire. Here over the next week as the Senate Finance Committee considers this draft, or certainly they're going to get pretty close to the wire there before you find out if they're on board or if they definitely are not. Broad strokes here as you said, $856 billion. Look at that price tag, it's significant because a lot of the other bills, all of the other bills, in fact, are close to $1 trillion. All of the other bills in congress and so this is significantly lower than that. Also instead of that public option that government-run insurance plan, this includes non-profit health care cooperatives, co- ops that would essentially be governed by the very patients that they serve. So, this is something very different than those other plans, those -- the plans in the House as well as the one other plan that's come out of the Senate that includes a public option, Tony.

HARRIS: And, Brianna, to what extent does this proposal address some of the concerns that the committee chairman has had with members of his own committee? We're talking about Democrats and Republicans. To what extent does this proposal sort of give us a view at the difficult negotiations here?

KEILAR: Well, let's take a look at how this draft deals with some of the concerns specifically of Senator Charles Grassley.

HARRIS: Yes.

KEILAR: Top Republican on this committee, part of the "Gang of Six." He's raised some pretty serious concerns wanting to make sure there are no federal funds for abortions. So, according to this draft, there are none, there would not be a -- there would be no mandate for private insurers to cover abortion in sort of a minimum package that essentially the government says, "Here's what you have to include in your minimum insurance package." But this isn't going to be enough, as we understand it, for some anti- -- some of the anti-abortion camps, because right now there are some federal funds that are allowed in the case of incest, rape, that are allowed in the case of if the life of the mother is in danger.

HARRIS: Yes.

KEILAR: And so we know that, you know, there are some concerns here that it's not going to be tight enough or really this is just restating current law, and they're kind of not really dealing with the issue.

Also, illegal immigrants, there have been some questions, of course, about whether some of them would be able to get access to some of this federal money that's going to help low-income Americans pay for their health insurance. And this puts in place a verification system that would go through the Social Security Administration, as well as perhaps the Department of Homeland Security. We'll see if that is enough for some republicans who have raised this concern.

And also that issue of medical malpractice. Some of Republicans and some democrats -- you know, a lot of Republicans and some Democrats have said they really need to curb these lawsuits where -

HARRIS: Yes.

KEILAR: -- they say doctors are practicing defensive medicine and it's driving up the cost of things. In this draft, it just says essentially there is a sense of the senate that states need to do something to find an alternative to litigation. I - I suspect we're going to be hearing some Republicans saying that's not strong enough language. hey want caps.

HARRIS: Absolutely. All right, Brianna Keilar on Capitol Hill for us. Thank you.

We are breaking down Senator Max Baucus' health care proposal, looking at what it means for you, and who will be covered and how?

(COOMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: A lot of balls in the air here. A lot to get to this hour about 30 minutes from now Senator Max Baucus discusses his long-awaited health care plan. We are bringing all the angles on this. Our reporters at Capitol Hill and at the White House discussing the impact. Plus, we'll be checking with our Josh Levs in just a couple moments here, who is going through the Baucus proposal. And you will also hear from Professor Kenneth Thorpe, Chairman of the Department of Health Policy and Management at Emory University, as well as Eamon Javers, political correspondent at POLITICO.com. A lot to get to.

So, who is covered under today's senate health care plan? Who is not? Josh has been doing a little research. What have you found, Josh?

JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Tony. A lot of major sticking points when it comes to the issue of coverage of who and what is covered. I'm going to get through the actual words from the proposal right now. I'm going to emphasize to everyone, you can see it on our blog, CNN.com/tony or CNN.com/josh. We link it to you, it's very long. No one here's an expert on it at least, at least I'm not. But we do have the text as we go through it and this is important. Let's zoom right in. One of the biggest questions, Tony, is who is required to have it?

We got it right here. Beginning 2013 all U.S. citizens and legal residents will be required to purchase the coverage. It says there would be exemptions, though, religious objections and those that are consistent with the current ones that don't have to have it under Medicare. Check this out, if you're uninsured, this is about pre- existing conditions. If you are uninsured and you have been denied health care coverage due to that, you would be allowed into this high- risk pool. And, Tony, this is one thing that gets me. Take a look at this. We'll talk to the guests about it. Currently covered individuals must be uninsured for six months before they could gain access to that high-risk pool. It's saying, if you have a pre-existing condition you would have to have no health insurance at all, as I'm reading this, before you could get access to the pool. We need some clarification on that.

Quickly, I know Brianna before the break was talking about illegal immigrants, this specifically says what they would do is establish the system under which they would look for name, social security number, date of birth to be verified with the Social Security Administration. But, Tony, some people have already said, "That's not enough, we've heard it in the past."

Abortion here. It explains the rules of abortion. It cannot be a mandated benefit, as Brianna mentioned, as part of a minimum package except in certain cases where federal funds are currently allowed. It does say, though, this is important, that a private plan that is part of this system would not be prohibited from providing coverage for abortions in other cases. And, Tony, that's part of the controversy.

HARRIS: Got you.

LEVS: And also, one more thing.

HARRIS: Sure.

LEVS: Prescription drugs, one of the most important medical situations in the country, people talk about. It would make prescription drugs a mandatory benefit for the categorically medically needy effective 2014. Foreseeing this, Tony, to summarize this, all the major issues of discussion are in this and they've been laid out in language that is pretty readable. How it will ultimately play out and when it can become legislation? We've got to wait and see.

HARRIS: Josh, thank you.

LEVS: Thanks, Tony.

HARRIS: Our guests have watched the senate proposal go through political grinder. Professor Kenneth Thorpe chairs the Department of Health Policy and Management at Emory University. Eamon Javers is Financial Correspondent at POLITICO.com. Gentlemen, good to have you back this hour.

Dr. Thorpe, let me start with you. How important to any meaningful health care reform is this idea of a coverage mandate?

KENNETH THORPE, CHAIRMAN, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH POLICY AND MANAGEMENT: Well, I think a coverage mandate is essential, because the insurance reforms that we want to do, eliminating pre-existing conditions, not letting insurance companies drop you when you're sick, you really need to have everybody covered in the system in order to do the insurance reform. So, I think it's an essential part of this proposal.

HARRIS: Yes. And Eamon Javers, an essential part of the proposal according to Professor Thorpe, but, boy, that raises all kinds of thorny issues moving forward. Well, you take them on, you take them on.

EAMON JAVERS, CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO.COM: Yes. Well, the key here, the sort of philosophical linchpin to this idea that everybody has to be covered is what insurance companies do now they charge you more if you're a riskier customer. And that's because the riskier customers are likely to cost them more. So people who smoke, for example, are likely to have more health issues that they're going to be more expensive going into the future. Under this proposal, those pre- existing conditions, with the exception of smoking and at one or two very other small limitations will be limitations. In order to pay for the expense of that, they have to bring in all these younger healthier people into the system to balance it out. So, net -- net, the costs are about the same.

HARRIS: Got you.

JAVERS: That's why you got to have this mandate for coverage and that's why all the proposals have it in there.

HARRIS: And I nearly got ahead of myself a moment ago. But, Professor Thorpe, back to you. What will ultimately constitute coverage? What benefits would you have to have, would you have to carry, you think moving forward, to be considered covered?

THORPE: Well, in essence, if you have coverage today through your employer, as I understand it, that will constitute coverage, credible coverage. If you don't have coverage or you're a self-employed individual small business, buying through the exchange, there are four benefit packages there. There's a bronze benefit package in the Olympic vernacular. As long as you have a bronze benefit package, which means that the health plan pays about 65 percent of the costs of health care, you pay 35percent, as long as you have that that would constitute health insurance coverage.

HARRIS: Got you. And, Eamon, to what extent will this idea of expanded Medicare, this idea of Medicare Plus, be a mechanism to cover more people?

JAVERS: I think it's going to be an important mechanism and largely because Medicare is so popular in this country. It's very palpable , I think, to talk about expanding Medicare politically in an era in which health care reform itself is being criticized widely, as you know, sort of socialism, talking about Medicare, which is a government-run health program, is very popular still.

And, in fact, sometimes today when you look at some of the republican criticisms of this, they're talking about cuts to the benefits that the government provides already to senior citizens in particular. So, some of these things have been passed into law in the past and are now sort of treasured American programs, that nobody wants to see cut and the fight is over all the rest of it now.

HARRIS: And, Professor Thorpe, should seniors, who are covered now through Medicare, this idea of an expanded Medicare, expanded Medicaid, should they be concerned that more people will necessarily mean a reduction in the quality of care?

THORPE: No, I don't think so. And, in fact, I think one of the exciting things that's in this senate proposal is that there are actually new benefits in the Medicare proposed -- program that are proposed. So, for example, are getting a cancer screen, any type of preventive services. Now under the proposal, you wouldn't have to pay any type of cost sharing for that. There would be a new health risk appraisal to help you sort of manage your health care and put together a care plan. Those would now be paid services through the Medicare program, so there's actually, I think, some exciting news in this for seniors as this proposal goes through.

HARRIS: Professor Thorpe, I appreciate it and Eamon, as always, thank you. Will the senate plan pass the White House test? That's next right here after our top stories.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Our top stories now. So far, no Bipartisan support for the Senate's long-awaited health care reform proposal. Finance Committee Chairman, Max Baucus, has posted his plan online. He is following up shortly with a news conference. You can watch it here live 12:45 Eastern, 9:45 Pacific in The Newsroom.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai wins another term claiming 54 percent of last month's votes. But election is tainted by charges of voter fraud. Karzai is blasting European Union observers who claim they found 1.5 million ballots.

And we are learning more details about an allege campus gang rape at Hofstra University in Long Island New York. CNN producer Laura Dolan has just been talking with detectives in the case, and she's on the phone with us right now. Laura, what are the detectives telling you?

LUARA DOLAN, CNN PRODUCER: Well, Tony, they've told me that the case was horrific in their words. This gang rape happened over the weekend, early Sunday morning. A college freshman, she was 18 years old, was attending a dance on campus at a fraternity fund-raiser, where she met two of the men involved in the rape. One of them took her cell phone, luring her out of the dance into a nearby dormitory, and she somehow agreed to go with him up to a higher floor on the dorm. When the elevator door opened, another man was there, met them. He had a cord, which they used to bind her in the nearby men's bathroom. A police detective tells me that they sexually assaulted her, and then three other men came into the bathroom. When she calls out for help, thinking, "Oh, my God, these guys can save me." Turns out they were also friends of the two other men and they also proceeded to sexually assault her.

Detectives tell me that they arrested two after half an hour and other men were arrested two of them within a half an hour and the other two they arrested at their homes nearby Long Island in the Bronx. A fifth man is still being pursued. They hope to have him arrested shortly.

I spoke to female students on the campus who were clearly shaken by what happened. They do feel that over-all Hofstra University campus is safe, though they do feel that they should have been notified much sooner than they were. A lot of rumours were swirling around Sunday after this happened, but notification didn't come from Hofstra until Monday. And they do feel that maybe since it was such a horrific event that they should have been notified on Sunday to clear up some of the rumours and also to let the women know that this is something that was taken care of quickly and efficiently.

HARRIS: What is the position, Laura, of Hofstra on this in terms of the notification and whether or not more notification should have gone out to the student body?

DOLAN: Their position was that this wasn't an imminent threat to other women or other students on campus, so they decided to wait until Monday to go ahead and make that notification.

HARRIS: Yes.

DOLAN: And I did ask the detectives about it, and they did discuss it, and the security team decided to wait until Monday. Whether that was to make sure they had all of the information correct before they sent out that notice and whether or not, you know, they wanted to make clear what happened and, you know, that they wanted to wait until they had everything correct before they sent out the notice. But the students told us -- but the students told us they get alerts very quickly on many other events. Sometimes stuff that doesn't even happen on campus, so they felt that they should have been notified.

HARRIS: Yes, yes, absolutely. One more quick one, Laura, the young woman here. Detectives give you any indication as to whether or not she was just an unfortunate random victim here, or whether or not this young woman might have been targeted?

DOLAN: They didn't say she was targeted, but she did have some sort of interaction with the two men at this dance. You know, clearly something was planned afterwards, because the two men were at the dance, and one left to go to the dorm where he met her at the elevator door went open. So, whether or not it was a target or an opportunity, we don't know.

HARRIS: Okay. Laura Dolan for us. One of our CNN producers at Hofstra University on Long Island. The location of what's being described as a horrific sexual attack over the weekend. Laura, appreciate it, thank you.

Let's dip in now, where the President is meeting with Canadian Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, and he's making comments about Afghanistan.

BARRACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: - without having absolute clarity about what the strategy is going to be. So, we're going to proceed and make sure that we don't put the cart before the horse.

STEPHEN HARPER, PRIME MINISTER, CANADA: Just very quickly, I - to-- try and answer that question directly. I certainly don't think, notwithstanding the continued problems in the -- in many parts of the country, the fierce efforts of the insurgency, I don't think the Taliban in any way constitutes an alternative government or, you know, any immediate threat to replacing the government of Afghanistan. So, I think in that sense, you know, we can see the progress that's been made. Obviously, though, we are concerned about the strength of the insurgency, we, as I say, welcome the renewed American effort and effort of some NATO countries.

Our emphasis in Canada, for some time now, particularly since we've extended our mission, has been really the necessity of seeing the Afghan government accept and be able to handle greater responsibility for the day-to-day security of that country as we move forward. Afghanistan's a very difficult country. I think all of our militaries, Canadian, American, British, those who have been highly engaged, I think have done a tremendous job at, you know, moving the ball forward. But in the end, we have to be clear that the security and sovereignty of Afghanistan can in the long term only be done by Afghans themselves. So, I think whatever we do on both sides of the border and with our NATO partners, has to have that as its long-term objective. Oh, I had was it Eric(ph)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Mr. President, Prime Minister, in contrast to the smart, brief question, I have a double-barrelled question under the umbrella of security. Canada and other NATO allies have set deadlines to leave Afghanistan. Mr. president, are you worried that the U.S. will be left to carry the burden in Afghanistan? What role would you like to see for Canada beyond 2011? Prime Minister, do you have any advice for the President, exit strategy or otherwise?

And then on economic security, Mr. President, despite assurances not to worry, U.S. protectionism is hurting Canadian businesses according to Canadian businesses. And I just -- we wondered if there was anything more you feel that you can or that you should do about that. And, Mr. Prime Minister, your views at this stage now as we've seen by American play itself out.

OBAMA: Well, let me start with Afghanistan, and I'll just reiterate what I said earlier. We are in the process of making a strategy -- a series of strategic decisions that will be sustainable and we'll be doing so in close consultation with our allies and our partners. We are tremendously grateful for the extraordinary sacrifices of the Canadian military. They have fought. They have had staying power. They have absorbed, you know, losses that we all grieve for and so I'm not worried about what will happen post-2011.

I want to make sure that, given the commitments that have already been made and that are continuing, that we make sure that the Canadian presence there fits into a coherent whole and that it's accomplishing our goals. And our goals are to eliminate Al Qaeda as a threat and, as Prime Minister Harper mentioned, I think it is important to recognize that ultimately Afghan security has to transition on to the shoulders of Afghan -- the Afghan government and Afghan security forces. And so the degree to which we are training them and building capacity, that's something that I'm certain, will be part of any long- term strategy, sustainable strategy. On the economic --

HARRIS: So, it sounds like the real goal moving forward for the Obama Administration, as it conducts its administrationwide reassessment of strategy and policy with regard to Afghanistan, is that one goal of eliminating Al Qaeda as a threat. Didn't mention the Taliban in that particular equation, but certainly said that the goal is eliminating Al Qaeda as a threat.

The president in his conversation, taking some questions from the media, after his meeting with Canadian Prime Minister, Stephen Harper. Reviewing the strategy, particularly at a time when public support for the war in Afghanistan continues to slip. We will continue to follow developments on that front, as well as the health care front.

That is our focus this hour and it is certainly not everything that the president wants, but the senate version of the health care reform plans that is out today mirrors many of the ideas he supports. Let's bring in our White House correspondent now, Suzanne Malveaux. Suzanne, is the senate plan that we're looking at now and analyzing today, is it something that the White House can live with?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Tony, I think they can absolutely live with this. I've been talking with White House aides who say they are quite satisfied with some of the things they have seen, very much mirrors, as you say, what the president brought forward to the joint session of Congress just last week. White house statements from a spokesman saying last week the president laid out his plans to bring Americans to don't have insurance and high-quality coverage for those who don't have insurance. The Senate Finance Committee mark-up by Chairman Baucus is another boost of momentum for the president's effort to reform the health care system.

If you take a look at this and you kind of break it down, whether or not you're look at the hundreds of pages or just that summary, it's clear there's some things that are very much in sync with the White House. Take, for instance, the cost.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

MALVEAUX: The cost of this. You're looking at $856 billion over 10 years. The president said it was going to be $900 billion over 10 years. Very much in line with the White House figure. Consumers protections. Again, people who would be able to go ahead and get health care insurance, not be denied health care insurance because of a pre-existing condition or a very bad illness. That's in this -- in this legislation. A tax credit for low income families to make it more affordable for folks. That is something the president has been talking about.

And, finally, this health insurance exchange. The idea that people would have options, be able to shop around for different kinds of insurance, different kinds of care. That is what the White House is seeking.

Now, Tony, you know, make no mistake, the president, the administration, didn't get everything that they wanted.

HARRIS: Right.

MALVEAUX: And there are some serious differences here. One of the things that we see here is this requirement for everybody to have health insurance or actually face a fine. As a candidate, Candidate Obama, he slammed his opponent, Hillary Clinton, for this very idea of requiring everyone to have insurance, saying just the children should be required to have insurance, that people have choices. He has come around to this position. He has been convinced of his position because he realizes you've got to get healthy people signed up so you can actually afford . . .

HARRIS: Yes, in the system.

MALVEAUX: Exactly, so you can afford to actually make these changes. The biggest difference here is it lacks the public option, that government-run option, insurance option, that he had been saying is the most preferable. It's the best way to offer competition to those private insurance companies. That's not going to happen. It's not in here. They don't have the support. That ended up being the third rail, if you will, in this whole debate. That's been jettisoned.

And finally, it doesn't have the bipartisan support that the president certainly had hoped. He said he sought it at least. It was something he ran in the campaign, not just change, but bridging the divide between Republicans and Democrats. The whole thing. That obviously looks like that's not going to happen for him. But there's a lot of stuff in here that the White House is very pleased with.

Tony.

HARRIS: In general, there's a lot of stuff in there that we've got to sort through. All right, Suzanne Malveaux, appreciate it. Thank you, Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Sure.

HARRIS: We want to take you back to the president and Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper. Let's listen in. We're hoping to hear some comments from the president himself on the Baucus plan.

STEPHEN HARPER, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: (speaking in foreign language).

HARRIS: OK. We'll wait for the president's comments and then we will turn those around for you.

A check of the day's business news as we wait to hear from Senator Max Baucus on his long-awaited health care reform plan. We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: All right. The make-or-break health care debate is gathering momentum as we wait to hear from Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus. He discusses his reform plan in just a couple of minutes. So far it has no Republican support. Live to CNN's senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash.

And, Dana, you've had an opportunity to -- I don't know how good you are at speed reading here. It's 200-some-odd pages. But if you would, share with us some of the highlights as you've read through it.

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. We can reset here. I mean the truth is, many of these highlights are things that we have been known about them, we've been reporting on for the past couple of weeks. First, the overall price. It's set at $856 billion. That's important because it is a lot less, considerably less, than the House Democrats' proposal, which was over a trillion dollars. And Senator Baucus is going to say that he believes it is entirely paid for, meaning it won't add to the deficit. $507 billion, he'll be getting that from cuts and savings in government health programs, including, and most importantly, Medicare. And also $349 billion in new taxes and fees. And that includes a tax on insurance companies for their high-cost insurance plans.

Now, in terms of requirements, just like most of the plans, this would make it clear that people wouldn't be banned from and barred from insurance if they have pre-existing conditions.

Another important note here, and maybe a little bit controversial, all individuals would be required to have health insurance.

HARRIS: Very important, yes.

BASH: Really important because if they don't, they could face a fine. And we're talking about up to $3,800 for families making $66,000 a year. And there isn't a mandate for businesses, but certainly it is encouraged through various ways for businesses to make sure their employees (ph) get health care.

Now, let's look at something that is really important. The provisions in here, Tony, that is really -- makes this different from the other Democratic bills, because they are geared more towards moderate Democrats and, frankly, Republicans, no public option.

HARRIS: Yes.

BASH: What the president had originally said he wanted. Many Democrats call it, you know, do or die from their perspective. Does not have a government-run health care option. Instead, it has an idea of a non-profit cooperative.

Also, there are fewer subsidies in here for low income Americans. Fewer than what we saw in the House bill. Why is that geared towards Republicans? Well, because that lowers the overall costs of this bill. It's less of a burden on the federal taxpayers and on the federal government.

HARRIS: Yes.

BASH: And, lastly, there are some prohibitions in here for illegal immigrants, specifically some pretty strict verification systems, to make sure illegal immigrants don't get this coverage. And also more language than other bills have had to make it clear that this health insurance program, or these policies, particularly and especially paid for with federal taxpayer dollars, would not go for abortions.

HARRIS: Yes.

BASH: So that's the goal here. But I want to just point something out.

HARRIS: Yes. Sure.

BASH: So I'm standing in the room where Senator Baucus is going to come in about 10 minutes. He'll come and speak at this podium behind me. He's going to be alone. You know, we have been talking, you and I, for months, basically, outside his office and he had been trying to get Republicans on board, particularly the three Republicans he has been working with. They're not going to be standing here. And not only are they not going to be standing here, they are not yet supporting the proposal that he put forward today. They're not saying they're walking away from the table. They're saying that they are going to continue to negotiate.

But we've seen some pretty strong statements from some of those Republicans, especially Mike Enzi of Wyoming and Charles Grassley of Iowa, saying that they simply don't think that this does enough to control health care costs and that the overall bill is just too much. So those are just some of the examples of why thy think that this needs to be chanced. I'm sure Senator Baucus is going to make clear he knows that it's not perfect, and the process is going to continue next week when they actually put this in the committee and they start votes actually in this room or at least in a room down the hall to start amending this proposal.

HARRIS: Boy, I've got two questions, particularly on the note that he will be there alone. I'm wondering, Kent Conrad, where is Senator Conrad? What about Senator Bingaman? Why won't they be there?

BASH: That's a good question. Kent Conrad, and we're talking about another Democrat.

HARRIS: Yes. BASH: The two other Democrats you just mentioned, of course, for our viewers, are the two other Democrats who have been in that room with Senator Baucus. He put out a statement also saying that he doesn't think that this entirely goes all the way. He had offered some counter proposals and he has some issues with this, including the cost as well. And he says he's not entirely satisfied. And he also plans to offer some amendments in the committee.

HARRIS: Boy.

BASH: So, look, I mean, Senator Baucus knows this is not perfect. As Suzanne had reported earlier, at the White House they believe, and certainly among Democratic leaders here, they believe this probably has one of the best chances of passing. And it's not necessarily because it would be bipartisan.

HARRIS: Right. Right.

BASH: Many people, most people here think, we're talking about Democratic leaders, that at best they're probably going to get one, maybe two Republicans at the end of the day in the Senate. But the key here is making sure that they have enough Democrats to pass it.

HARRIS: Got you. Got you.

BASH: And there are enough conservative Democrats, enough moderate Democrats, who don't like some of the provisions in the House bill, like that public option, that this is very much geared towards them and towards ultimately getting something that can pass the Congress. And that's why at the White House they welcome this in a big way.

HARRIS: So much there. All right, our senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash for us. Dana, appreciate it, as always. Thank you.

Let's get to Josh Levs now.

Josh, you've been working through, boy, we talked about cost. We talked about coverage. Choice, right? Is that what we're focusing on now?

JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're talking about choice, yes, absolutely. And what I'm doing is I'm piecing through the bill, rather, the suggested bill, right, the proposal.

HARRIS: Yes. Yes.

LEVS: I want to tell everyone they can see it at cnn.com/tony or cnn.com/josh. It's 223 pages. We're piecing through it big time. And, yes, what we've done now is pulled out some of the language that is designed to help increase choice. And, Tony, as you know, part of what this is about is establishing these exchanges under which people would have options for different plans.

Let's zoom right in. I pulled out a few lines here and there. They talk about all private insurers basically who are in this system must be available inside this newly established state exchanges. And part of what people wonder is, when it comes to these exchanges, Tony, how does the cost work out? Well, what they say is the state exchanges will "receive initial federal funding." Then, after that, they "would be self-sustaining in future years."

And, Tony, last hour I mentioned the Olympic terminology.

HARRIS: Yes. Yes.

LEVS: And I know our guests were talking about this too. Four benefit categories would be available bronze, silver, gold, and platinum. The idea being, try to make it simpler for people to make their choices.

But check out this huge list. Underneath it, it says every plan, if it's the bronze, whatever, it all has to include this massive list of stuff. And it ends this section, Tony, saying this, "plans could also not include lifetime limits on coverage or annual limits on any benefits."

You know, even if we didn't get massive health reform passed, even if just something like that happened or just new rules on pre-existing conditions, those kind of things alone would bring about a c-change (ph) in the way that health care works in America. Cases like that you actually see a lot of people, there is some bipartisan support for things like that. Everything else is the sticking point.

Choice is one of the places where, as a rule, Democrats and Republicans have a lot in common on this. And if this could get through, that would be big.

HARRIS: OK. OK, let's drill down on it a little bit more. Josh, thank you.

LEVS: You got it.

HARRIS: Let's bring in our health care reform panel, again, this time to talk about choices in the Senate plan. Professor Kenneth Thorpe chairs the Department of Health Policy and Management at Emory University. Eamon Javers, financial correspondent for Politico.com. Two sharp, sharp minds on this.

Professor, let me start with you. I want to get to the exchange in a moment, but we also know there are provisions here for what's called a health care co-op. Please explain that to me so that it makes sense not only to me but for everyone watching.

DR. KENNETH THORPE, EMORY UNIV. DEPT. OF HEALTH POLICY AND MGMT.: Well, all a health care co-op is, it's a not-for-profit health plan. The management of it is run by its membership. There are no profits, obviously. I think the intent is, is to make sure that all of the decisions about how the health plan operates really are in the best interests of its members. So it's quite different, obviously, than a for-profit health insurance plan in that respect.

HARRIS: OK. And the idea of the exchange that we're hearing about and Josh just explained a little bit of the language, drill down a little deeper on that for us. What do we mean by this exchange?

THORPE: Think of it just as a marketplace where people who are in small businesses, they're self-employed, can actually go to the Internet or go physically and actually sign up for coverage. So it's a way to provide information to people in a very simple way. It basically performs the same function that your employer at CNN or mine at Emory would play for me in terms of a health benefits department.

HARRIS: Yes. What, if anything, does this plan do, the Baucus plan? What does it do to stem the rising costs of private health insurance? What are your thoughts on this?

THORPE: Well, I think it does a couple of things. One is that it reduces the costs of administering our health care system. They're certainly moving in the right direction to try to streamline claims processing and other things that we can just cut out of the system. A lot of the paperwork.

Two is that by having Medicare assume some leadership in doing a better job of preventing disease, in managing chronic illness, the key drivers of health care spending increases. The thought is the private sector will adopt some of those approaches that the Medicare program is going to use. So I think, at the end of the day, there's something in this in terms of cost containment, both for the public plans, as well as for private health insurance.

HARRIS: Overall, generally speaking, where are we today? How significant is this point in time in the evolution? Look, 60 years we've been trying to do this as a nation. How significant a day is this?

THORPE: Well, I think today is probably the biggest day we've had in 60 years in health reform. We've had bills passed out of the House. We've had bills passed out of the health -- the one Senate committee. And the Senate Finance Committee, the big committee doing this, is going to report hopefully out next week. So this process has gone far -- further than we did 16 years ago. And certainly I think that we are closer than ever to having comprehensive health care reform that really will improve the quality of care for all Americans, really take a lot of the anxiety out of people worried about losing their insurance coverage, being denied coverage, or having a health insurance plan drop you when you're sick.

HARRIS: All right. Professor Thorpe, thank you for your time. And I should mention you were there trying to make this happen 16 years ago with the Clinton administration. Thanks for your time. We really appreciate it, over the last two hours.

THORPE: Thank you.

HARRIS: And our apologies. We lost Eamon Javers. We will certainly be talking to Eamon about this over the next couple of days. He's been a terrific help to us as we sort of dissect health care reform moving forward.

You're looking at the hall where in just a couple of minutes -- Capitol Hill -- where the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, Max Baucus, will be holding a news conference, alone, to talk about the Baucus plan, moving forward for health care reform.

We are back in a moment with your top stories. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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HARRIS: Top stories now.

We are awaiting Senator Max Baucus, the man of this hour, the finance chairman, about to discuss his proposal for overhauling the nation's health care system. No Republicans from his so-called gang of six signing on to the deal so far. Baucus' news conference set to begin five minutes. OK, five minutes from now. And you can watch it live right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

D.C. sniper John Allen Muhammad is set to be excused November 10th. You might remember Muhammad was convicted in a series of shootings that terrorized the Washington area in 2002. His attorney plans to file an appeal with the U.S. Supreme Court and ask the governor of Virginia for clemency.

Police have released a Yale University employee picked up yesterday in connection with the murder of graduate student Annie Le. They collected DNA samples from the 24-year-old lab technician. Police say they are not ready to make an arrest and are still trying to narrow down the focus.

More details and analysis of today's new health reform proposal from our White House and congressional correspondents ahead. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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HARRIS: Senator Max Baucus is certainly the man of the hour. We are waiting for the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee to begin his news conference any minute now we believe. We believe, actually, he is on his way to the room to begin the news conference. As you know, the chairman has laid down his mark for health care reform posted online. And it is 200 pages-plus. We are dissecting it throughout the day here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

We're going to take a quick break. And we'll be right back.

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HARRIS: Get a flu shot while you wait for your flight? It is now possible at Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport. It will be -- let's stop where we are. Senator Max Baucus talking about health care reform, his plan. Let's go to it live.

SEN. MAX BAUCUS, (D) FINANCE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Well, first, welcome, everybody.

Our health care system is simply unsustainable. It's breaking the bank for everyone, from families to businesses to governments. Millions of Americans today simply cannot afford quality health insurance. In fact, in the past day, another 17,000 people lost coverage.

More small businesses cut benefits because they are simply too expensive. And more Americans filed for bankruptcy because of high medical bills. That's why it's time to act and that's why this is our moment in history. This is our chance to reform health care in America. We cannot let this opportunity pass.

Last week, President Obama laid out what he believes are the key criteria for reform. It should provide more security and stability for those with health insurance today. It should expand coverage to those who don't. It should slow the growth of health care costs. And it should keep insurance companies honest.

The chairman's mark I'm releasing today delivers on these critical reforms. It delivers on the vision for a meaningful health care reform. And I share it with President Obama and millions of Americans of all stripes that goal.

It meets the criteria laid out by President Obama and it could achieve our common goals for health care reform. It reflects months of work and more than a year of preparation by our committee.