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Police Make Arrest in Yale Murder Case; Nancy Pelosi Speaks Out; Interview With Massachusetts Congressman Barney Frank; Interview With Michigan Congressman Mike Rogers

Aired September 17, 2009 - 22:00   ET


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight: a major break in the Yale murder mystery, an arrest in the killing of grad student Annie Le. Her photo now has become seen -- has become known around the world.

We also have new details tonight about the suspect, Raymond Clark, a look into his past revealing almost two different people. Some say he was quiet, unassuming, but others tonight painting a far darker picture. That's him in court.

We begin, though, with a new war of words in the health care debate, another firefight that has nothing to do with health care reform itself. It started with a question for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. At her weekly news conference, she was asked whether she was worried about how harsh the political atmosphere had become. Here's what she said.


REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I have concerns about some of the language that is being used, because I saw -- I saw this myself in the late '70s in San Francisco. This kind of rhetoric is -- was very frightening. And it gave -- it created a climate in which we -- violence took place.


COOPER: Speaker Pelosi appearing to tear up, talking, of course, about the murders of Harvey Milk, a gay civil rights activist, a member of the San Francisco Board of Supervisors, as well as the city's mayor, George Moscone. Her answer triggered an almost immediate backlash.

Here is House Republican John Boehner.


REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: Now, listen, this whole issue of race people have tried to raise here over the last week or so, and this insinuation that the people who are opposing the president's policies are motivated by race, capped off by former President Carter's remarks over the last couple of days, let me tell you what. I reject this resoundingly.


COOPER: The rhetoric increasingly heated.

Candy Crowley tonight has the "Raw Politics."


PELOSI: Good morning.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The speaker of the House says some of the things she's hearing in the health care debate border on dangerous.

PELOSI: I saw this myself in the late '70s in San Francisco. This kind of rhetoric is -- was very frightening. And it gave -- it created a climate in which we -- violence took place.

CROWLEY: To review, the pro-reform side, including the president, has been called socialist, Marxist and un-American. Those against the president's plans have been called wing nuts, fringe groups, and racists.

Republicans accuse Democrats of stoking a false racism charge to diminish honest opposition. Democrats say, for political reasons, Republicans won't condemn the clearly racist signs and words at some protests.

Oh, how the White House wants to put a lid on this one. They have been trying since Sunday.

ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I don't think the president believes that people are upset because of the color of his skin.

The president does not believe that -- that the criticism comes based on the color of his skin.

CROWLEY: And, today, the vice president chimed in from Iraq.

JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As you approach the resolution of an incredibly controversial issue, ideologically, politically and every other way, usually, you find excesses grow from that. But the president does not believe, nor do I believe it's racially based.

CROWLEY: It's no that the president is above a good partisan fight. He was out there today proving that.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have heard a lot of Republicans say they want to kill Obama-care. Some may even raise money off it. But when you ask these folks what exactly my plan does, they have got it all wrong.

CROWLEY: Here's the problem. Beyond the four walls of that rally, who's listening? The sideshow, the debate about the debaters, drowns out the president at a critical point in his bid for health care reform. DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: All of the background noise, the -- the conversation behind the conversation, is hurting his ability to get his policy agenda implemented.

CROWLEY: And a bitter sideshow on one of the most politically toxic topics turns off moderate, less partisan voters, and makes the opposition more opposed.

ED GILLESPIE, FORMER REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: All of a sudden, to be accused of being racist for expressing those concerns, it -- you know, it further polarizes an already polarized debate.

CROWLEY: There is bipartisan agreement on this. Politicos on both sides say the health care debate is the nastiest in decades -- only one thing missing.

AL SHARPTON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: This is not about black and white. This is about insuring America.

CROWLEY: Oh, yeah, health care.

Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.


COOPER: Well, Massachusetts Congressman -- Congressman Barney Frank joins me now.

Congressman Frank, Nancy Pelosi referring to the vitriol which came before the assassination of Harvey Milk and George Moscone, is that an appropriate comparison?

REP. BARNEY FRANK (D-MA), FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Well, I wasn't there, so I couldn't say exactly.

I would not make the comparison myself. I don't think the -- well, if one thing, the hatred was personalized. Remember, you had a very specific personal dispute there. Dan White, who murdered Harvey Milk and -- and George Moscone, had been on the Board of Supervisors to the San Francisco City Council, had quit, then wanted to come back, and they were blocking him from doing it.

So, it wasn't a generalized homophobia that was there. That may have accounted for the fact that he got a ridiculously light sentence for the cold-blooded murder of two people, obviously premeditated. But I -- you had that very specific grievance from a man who thought he had been denied what he wanted.

COOPER: You're -- you're trying to focus on financial regulation reform right now. It is any different trying to get something done now compared to in past years? I mean, is it any more or less partisan behind closed doors? We see what's happening out on the streets. What's happening behind closed doors?

FRANK: Well, it's more partisan in the House, less so in the Senate. I know that Senator Dodd, the Senate chairman, has been having, I think, some constructive conversations with Senator Shelby.

What has happened is this. There's been a movement in American politics. I -- I entered politics in 1972 in the Massachusetts legislature. We had a lot of moderate to liberal Republicans, Senator Ed Brooke and former Governor Francis Sargent. And I worked with a lot of Republicans. In many cases, I was against the kind of entrenched Democratic organizational leadership.

But American politics have changed. It used to be we would say, well, we have Southern Democrats who are more conservative than Northern Republicans. That is no longer the case. And, you know, to some extent, the American political science profession, if you go back years ago, has gotten their wish. The parties are much more rationally divided now, but with a great deal more anger.

I do think that -- that trend really began, and I think Newt Gingrich as very explicit about this. Newt Gingrich, during the '80s and early '90s, said, we Republicans will never take power if this is seen as a set of debates between people of good will who differ. He said he -- he -- he forced out Bob Michel, who had been Republican leader.

He was kind of contemptuous of the moderate and even mainstream conservative Republicans, who believed -- they would say, well, we're friends after 6:00, et cetera. And he said, no, we have to say that the Democrats are corrupt and immoral and disloyal.

That engendered a counter-reaction. And so you now have two strong parties. And I think there are two other factors, Anderson. I'm going to on long, but let me mention two other factors.

First of all, we're in very bad economic times right now. And people are more likely to be angry and listen to anger in bad economic times. And it's not just bad economic times. Some of the most respected institutions in America, the financial giants, because this is a country that really kind of almost worshipped capitalism in an unrestrained form for many years, they collapsed, and the government is complicit in not having prevented the collapse.

So, you have a lot of people out there who have lost faith in the institutions in which they were supposed to have had faith.


FRANK: The other thing is this. There are fewer and fewer people getting the news from Walter Cronkite or a newspaper, where everybody gets it together.

We're now very polarized in how we get our information. On the whole, conservatives are listening to talk radio, and, on the whole, liberals are doing the Internet. And we each have our own cable orientations.

You guys are more in the middle, but you're in the minority in being sort of in the middle. So, what happens is this.

COOPER: Tell me about it.

FRANK: People only talk to people they care -- that agree with them. And then I am confronted by people. If I say, well, I would like to get this done from the liberal side, but I have to compromise, they don't understand why I say that...

COOPER: Right.

FRANK: ... because everybody they know agrees with them. And the same is true on the right.

COOPER: That's -- we're definitely seeing that more and

Congressman Frank, stay with us. We have got to take a short break. We want to talk more after this break.

Also, the congressman is going to be joined by Republican Congressman Mike Rogers, David Gergen, and Deepak Chopra in a moment.

You can join the conversation, too, online. It's happening right now, the live chat,

Also ahead, a huge break in the Yale murder mystery, an arrest today and new details about the suspect, a Yale lab technician who was arraigned today.

We will be right back.


COOPER: We're back with Representative Barney Frank. Also joining me, Republican Congressman Mike Rogers, senior political analyst David Gergen, and Deepak Chopra, whose new book, "Reinventing the Body, Resurrecting the Soul," is coming out next month.

Let's pick up with what House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said today. She appeared to compare today's angry conservative protests to anti- gay rallies in the late 1970s that preceded the assassination of two San Francisco political leaders.

Congressman Rogers, is Speaker Pelosi's warning unfounded?

REP. MIKE ROGERS (R-MI), HOUSE PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE MEMBER: Yes, I think it is. And you have to remember what this is all about.

And I happen to represent a conservative blue-collar district in Michigan. And, listen, every single person is going to encounter the health care system. And, when you talk about a fundamental change, I don't care if you're a cancer survivor, or maybe your mother is a cancer survivor, or you know you're going to have health issues, or you're on a prescription, this impacts you deeply personally.

And I think what people in the political talking head arena have just absolutely misjudged, these are just average people. I have seen housewives show up and people who are -- they're not angry. They're very, very concerned.

So, yes, I do. I mean, are there those? Absolutely. "The Weekly Standard" did a piece where they said seven out of the 10 town hall violence episodes involved the unions. That's that organized political event.

But the -- the episodic, where people are just showing up, those are just average people, the little guy who is saying, hey, wait a minute, this scares me, and it scares me a lot.

COOPER: David, there's been plenty of partisan rhetoric in past decades. People called President Bush Hitler. During the Vietnam War, presidents were demonized by anti-war protesters. Is this just part of that same game?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think it's -- I think it's -- no, I think it's worse, Anderson, than it has been in a long time.

I -- look, I want to repeat what I said last night. I do not think racism is driving the opposition to health care. I made that point last night. What I do think is that there are radical elements on the fringes on both sides, and -- and the expressions that we're now seeing, the signs and some of the -- the pictures of Obama and that sort of thing, I think, probably have increased the threat levels that the Secret Service has dealt with -- or is dealing with.

I know that there have been -- threat levels have elevated in the past when some of this has gone on. But it is also true, Anderson, if you have a chance to walk through the newly restored Lincoln Museum in Springfield, Illinois, there's one room in there if you go in there, you will find cartoons from that period depicting him as an ape, as a baboon, and just the worst sorts of animalistic sort of things.

They're really pretty horrible. They represent a lot of what was going on at the time. And it's important to remember what happened to Lincoln in April of 1965.

COOPER: Deepak, there is rhetoric used against the president and then there's rhetoric used to try to define his policies in a way that often misrepresents them. The term death panels comes -- comes to mind.

DEEPAK CHOPRA, AUTHOR, "REINVENTING THE BODY, RESURRECTING THE SOUL": Well, you know, the debate has shifted from health reform to insurance reform. That's the first thing.

President Obama's plan is humane. It's compassionate. It's for the impoverished. It's for the elderly. It's a plan for social justice. And people are now scared. By labeling him as a communist and a death panelist and socialist, you're actually getting away from the real issues.

Talk about end-of-life care, most of end-of-life care actually does not extend life. It extends suffering. It increases bills. You know, we are the only profession in -- the medical profession, the medical industry is the only industry that does not obey the laws of supply and demand in capitalism, because doctors -- you know, a doctor's pen, it has been said, is the most expensive technology.

You have a minor chest -- chest discomfort because you had an argument with your wife, and you go to a doctor, and, before you know it, you have had an EKG, a stress test, a 24-hour Holter monitor, and, if you're unlucky, an angiogram and an angioplasty, which does nothing to extend lifespan, even if did you have the disease.

So, we have a big issue here. We're not looking at the $700 billion that are spent on unnecessary tests, the 2.5 million surgeries that are not required, the fact that there are four times as many lobbyists, health care lobbyists, in Washington as there are congressmen. We're getting diverted from the real issues. I think President Obama's plan is really a good one.

COOPER: Congressman Frank, you had an encounter, famously, now at this point, with one person in a town hall that you held. I just want to show that to our viewers very quickly.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do you continue to support a Nazi policy, as Obama has expressly supported this policy? Why are you supporting it?


FRANK: It is a tribute to the First Amendment that this kind of vile, contemptible nonsense is so freely propagated.


FRANK: Ma'am, trying to have a conversation with you would be like trying to argue with dining room table. I have no interest in doing it.




COOPER: When you hear President -- former President Carter saying that -- that the majority of the opposition to the president is rooted in racism, or the majority of the vitriol that he is hearing, do you agree with that? Or -- or do you agree with Congressman Rogers, who is saying, look, the vast majority of this is people expressing deep-seated concern, legitimate concern?

FRANK: Let me say, C, neither of the above. The woman who asked me that question was a LaRouche, an advocate of Lyndon LaRouche. So, she -- she came out of deep lunacy.

But I will say, by the way, these are the people who called George Bush Hitler. I ran against one who said that Queen Elizabeth was a drug dealer. My response was that I didn't think she dressed nearly well enough to be a drug dealer.


FRANK: But here's the mistake I think conservatives have made, and they're paying for it now. That is, they were happy to see, yes, there were some angry, average people. But there was some crazed people. There were the LaRouche people. There were some people from very right-wing groups that are not part of mainstream conservatives.

The conservatives were very happy to let them go out and attack Democrats. Then they began to worry because, oh, wait a minute, we have more rational arguments. And they wanted to pull back from the -- from the death panels, et cetera.

So, I think they made this mistake. By the way, the Democrats have made it previously. There is a reluctance on the part of mainstream politicians to repudiate the angriest and least rational and least logical and unfairest people in their own wing. And that's a mistake.

I wrote a book about it years ago. You have got to -- you know, one of the hardest things to do is stand up to people who tell you they're your allies. It's easy to denounce your enemies.

COOPER: So -- so...

FRANK: You have got to sometimes differentiate yourself from your friends.

So, no, the main opposition to this health care plan is not of that sort. But the conservatives made the mistake of not differentiating themselves from it, and, indeed, enjoying the fact that Democrats were getting hit with it.

COOPER: Congressman Rogers, what about that? I want you to respond. Is -- is the harsher rhetoric kind of driving the debate and kind of influencing congressmen?


I think, you know, the sexiest part of that debate is -- is when they can get that -- you know, that sign that I think the vast majority of Americans don't identify with and don't understand. I mean, when the -- the CODEPINK people were protesting during the president's speech, I mean, I -- I wish my good friend Barney Frank would have stood up then and said how wrong it was.

FRANK: I did, Mike. Excuse me. That is totally unfair.


ROGERS: You know what? That is not -- that is not unfair. And it happened a lot.


ROGERS: But, Barney, just let me finish, though.

And that's the problem, this heated part of it. Yes, there are those -- those folks on both sides of the aisle that are people that we would take pause and say, wait a minute, that is not a great way to express your point.

But here's the problem, what I think -- and I think Barney and others have absolutely missed. These are just average people who are scared. They're the ones that are paying their credit card bills. They're paying their mortgage bill. They're showing up for work every day. And they don't see a way out of this.

And they see this big government coming in and saying, I'm going to run your health care.

COOPER: Congressman Frank?

ROGERS: You mean the same people that couldn't get water to Katrina, the same people who couldn't process the cash for clunkers transactions are now going to take care of my sick grandmother?


FRANK: No, Mike, that's...

ROGERS: And that's what I think people miss. These are average people who are truly concerned.


COOPER: Congressman Frank?

FRANK: Yes, I want to respond to that set of partisan distortions.

In the first place, Mike Rogers is simply wrong. And I'm disappointed in him.

I did stand up to CODEPINK. I have chaired committees when they harassed witnesses when the Republicans were in power, and ordered them to sit down, and told them I would have the police remove them.

Mike, I don't know why you would make things up. We're trying to have a serious discussion.

No, I have been very critical over time when the same -- and, by the way, I -- I'm not missing anything. I know who lives in my district and I know who they are. And I know that the LaRouche people who come to my -- the town meeting I was at...

ROGERS: The LaRouche people are a very small percentage, Barney. They are a very small percentage.

FRANK: Mike, but they were the ones that I was talking about. You -- you say I don't -- I miss it. I don't miss it. In fact, you weren't listening to what I said. I differentiate. I know there are a lot of people who have legitimate concerns. I disagree with them, but they have them. The conservatives, however, were happy to egg them on.

And I will say that one important part of the conservative movement, FOX News -- in fact, I was criticized by FOX News for being rude to a LaRouche advocate holding a picture of the president as Hitler.

So, there has been an element in the conservative side that has failed to differentiate. I know who...


ROGERS: Well, where -- when is rudeness enough? I mean, my argument is maybe we shouldn't be rude to each other at all. There is a serious debate that we should have here that...

FRANK: I agree with that. I haven't been rude to people, except to the crazies.

ROGERS: ... concerns 270 million Americans who may lose their health care. And I think that's a -- we should have that debate. And, sometimes, it will be charged, but it doesn't have to be rude.

FRANK: Mike, you're missing the point. We were -- we were stopping -- that debate got interrupted by the right-wing attacks, not the mainstream conservatives, on the president and the health care plan. And too many conservatives were happy to sit back and let it happen. Now I hope we will resume that debate...

COOPER: We have got to go.

FRANK: ... because people have understood that wasn't a good tactic.

COOPER: I'm sorry. We got to run. We got to go. I'm sorry we didn't have more time for this.

Congressman Frank, appreciate it.

Rogers, as well, Congressman Rogers, David Gergen, and Deepak Chopra, as well, thank you. Good discussion.

ROGERS: Thank you.

COOPER: Up next: President Obama deciding to cancel a Bush era plan for a missile shield for Eastern Europe. He says his plan is better. Republicans are not so sure. You can decide for yourself.

Also, eerie new photos of the lab technician under arrest for the murder of Yale grad student Annie Le -- of course, they're eerie now. That's him on a Facebook page -- new details about his relationship with Le, including reports of texts or e-mail messages between the two.

We're live with the latest.


COOPER: We have new details tonight about the man police say killed Yale grad student Annie Le. We will have that in a moment.

But, first, Erica Hill has a 360 bulletin -- Erica.

ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the Obama administration is overhauling a Bush era plan for missile defense shield based in Eastern Europe. The president says the change of gears is based on an updated intelligence assessment about Iran's ability to hit Europe with missiles. He also says the redesigned system will be both cheaper and more effective. Now, many Republicans say it is bad for national security.

In Indonesia, the country's most-wanted terror suspect, Noordin Top, was killed in an overnight raid. His terror network is blamed for nearly every major attack in Indonesia in the past decade, including the hotel bombings in Jakarta two months ago.

The House today voting to deny all federal funding for the community organizing group ACORN. The move comes just days after a hidden camera video was released showing ACORN employees apparently advising a couple posing as a prostitute and a pimp to break the law.

And fossil hunters in northern China discover a tiny T.rex. The Raptorex roamed the Earth 125 million years ago, stood 9 feet tall, and weighed 150 pounds. That's slim. The giant T.rex that evolved millions of years later was as much as 100 times bigger.

Even the small one, though, I don't think I would want to meet in an alley.

COOPER: Yes, 9 feet tall. I mean, 150 pounds, but, still, 9 feet tall, nothing to -- it's probably hard to run away from, I guess.

HILL: Nothing to sneeze at.


COOPER: Nothing to sneeze at.

Coming up next on 360: a huge government check to an isolated checkpoint. You've got to check -- you've got to see this report. Is it helping the economy or bleeding taxpayer dollars dry? It's the border crossing boondoggle. We will tell you why it has so many people angry. We're "Keeping Them Honest."

Also, later, a profile of the accused Yale killer -- friends speaking out. So are the police -- a live report from New Haven coming up.


COOPER: Tonight, a young lab technician sits in a New Haven jail cell, held on $3 million bail, and charged with strangling Yale graduate student Annie Le. His arrest really was not a surprise.

Raymond Clark, who has been a person of interest now for a couple days, he's the only suspect in a murder that has attracted national attention -- worldwide attention, really. Clark was arrested at a Super 8 hotel earlier this morning.

The body of Annie Le, his alleged victim, described as a brilliant student, was found inside a wall at the Yale Medical School building on Sunday, on what would have been her wedding day.

We're learning a lot more tonight about the accused and about what may have triggered the brutal crime.

With the latest now, here's Tom Foreman.


TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Arrested and brought into court facing a murder charge at just 24, Ray Clark was not asked for a plea, just to be understood his rights.

His answer: two words.


FOREMAN: Others, however, are saying much more.

The police chief won't talk about reports of messages between Clark and the murder victim, Annie Le, but he makes it clear, the lab where they both worked is where the violence was born.

JAMES LEWIS, NEW HAVEN, CONNECTICUT, POLICE CHIEF: This is not about urban crime. It's not about university crime. It's not about domestic crime, but an issue of workplace violence, which is a -- becoming a growing concern around the country.

FOREMAN: Twenty minutes away, in Clark's hometown, the idea of some sort of workplace eruption is puzzling for old high school classmates.

MICHELLE CRISCUOLO, BRANFORD, CONNECTICUT: He was incredibly nice. He was sweet. He came off as very caring.

FOREMAN: Michelle Criscuolo knew him as a fun-loving and athletically gifted boy with kind and giving parents. Even before a local paper reported it, she knew firsthand about a long-ago police investigation into accusations that Clark forced his then girlfriend into having sex with him. No charges were filed, so Michelle never thought much of it.

CRISCUOLO: You know, he never was arrested or anything like that. But it just -- it just didn't -- it just seemed like there was a problem within the relationship and, you know, it was something between them two.

FOREMAN: Branford police will not talk about that incident now, saying only that they are sharing information with New Haven detectives.

It is all painful for Caitlin Mahon. She, too, knew Ray Clark, as a standout baseball player...

(on camera): And this is him right here?


FOREMAN (voice-over): ... and a fellow member of a high school club to promote understanding of Asian culture.

She does not believe he could have killed Annie Le.

(on camera): What kind of guy was Ray Clark in high school?

MAHON: Friendly all the time, sweetheart, totally.

FOREMAN: So, what happened? If police are correct, somehow her job as a researcher and his job taking care of the animals that she worked with brought them into a collision in the basement of this building a little more than a week ago with tragic results.

(voice-over) Bail for Clark was set at $3 million, and his attorney is not talking. Many students of Yale are breathing easier with the arrest. But many friends of Annie Le and Ray Clark have just as many questions about how this murder came to pass.


COOPER: Tom, you mentioned all the questions that people have about what happened, obviously. Is there any reason to believe that those questions will eventually be answered?

FOREMAN: I don't know, Anderson. Authorities here noticed that Mr. Clark very quickly invoked his right to not incriminate himself. Remember, they had to get a order from a judge to bring him into custody. So they could take these DNA samples to learn more about what happened.

And as far as we know, there were no witnesses to this crime. So, if he's the right guy, and if this in fact goes to trial as expected, I think we'll be looking at a lot of scientific evidence, possibly if there are messages that some people rumored between phones or something between them, that may help create the picture.

But in the end, the question will be whether or not, if he is the guilty person, he wants to tell the story of what happened in that room. Otherwise, Anderson, I think all we may ever know is what science may be able to tell us.

COOPER: Tom, thanks.

One medical student who didn't want to identify herself on TV says she was in the lab with Clark just three days after Le disappeared. And here's what she told CBS News about his behavior and the area where they worked. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He did such a good job of hiding any sign of nervousness or anything out of the ordinary when I was in the room with him alone on Friday -- Friday night. The rooms in the basement were sound proof. So even if Annie had been screaming, nobody would have been able to hear her.


COOPER: We're getting two very different portraits of Le's alleged killer. Let's talk more about the suspect, his relationship with Le, and a possible motive.

With me now, legal analyst Lisa Bloom and prosecutor and stalking expert Rhonda Saunders.

Rhonda, you know, we heard police say this was a case of workplace violence. That still -- that term still encompasses a whole lot of possible motives.

RHONDA SAUNDERS, STALKING EXPERT/AUTHOR, "WHISPER OF FEAR": Yes, workplace violence can encompass everything from -- from stalking, from conflicts within the workplace itself. It could be related to the type of work that she was doing.

I mean, there's so many different motivations out there. And right now I think everything is pure speculation. We really don't know. We just have the edges of the puzzle. So it's very hard to try to pinpoint what exactly is going on.

Was there stalking? Was there a relationship within the workplace? Was it work related? We don't know.

COOPER: Because I mean, we do know he had a girlfriend that he was reportedly going to marry. She was obviously about to get married. She was married -- supposed to be married on the day that her body was actually discovered. But beyond that, you know, we have conflicting reports about what kind of person he was, as we always do in a case like this.

SAUNDERS: Absolutely. And OSHA just released some figures, that over two million Americans are subjected to some type of workplace violence every year. So this is not an unusual phenomena. I think we're just starting to live in a more violent society.

COOPER: Lisa, when the police were saying that he was just a person of interest, I mean I guess, what, they have to say that because they can't name him as a suspect yet until they get DNA evidence, which apparently, they now have.

LISA BLOOM, FOX NEWS LEGAL ANALYST: That's correct. And now they have that and now, of course, he's been arrested, and he's accused of the murder.

Let me just say flat out, Anderson, I'm not buying this workplace violence theory. I'm really not. And I know we have limited information at this point. A typical case of workplace violence is a disgruntled employee who's been fired and comes in with a gun and starts shooting everyone.

This is a case of a young man, if he's good for this crime, who put his hands around the neck of a beautiful young woman and killed her, a kind of killing that would take two to five minutes, an extremely intimate, brutal kind of crime.

We also don't know yet whether she was the victim of sexual assault or not. The police have been mum on that point.

I'm just not buying that this had to do with mouse droppings and whether she was wearing the proper booties in the lab. That doesn't make sense to me. I think more facts are going to be told in this case. We're going to learn this was a jolted lover or he was interested in her and she rejected him. Something of that nature.

COOPER: Well, Rhonda, the fact that this was strangulation. I mean, it is, as Lisa said, an extremely personal way to kill someone.

SAUNDERS: Absolutely. It's very personal. Because they have to actually approach the person. It isn't like using a gun, where they can shoot a projectile across the room.

But I disagree that you can't quantify it as workplace violence. Because many workplace violence incidents involve a domestic partner, showing up at the workplace, or something gone wrong in the workplace itself. So over the umbrella of workplace violence, this is something that could fit within it.

BLOOM: Right. It's technically a workplace violence, because it happened in the place where the two of them worked. But this isn't the type of workplace violence that we usually see.

And I think the police chief wants the people in that community, where I lived for three years myself, to feel comfortable. That this isn't urban crime. Yale University wants everybody to feel comfortable, that they can feel safe around campus.

But this, to me, smacks of violence against women when you look at it on its face.

And by the way, the fact that he was in the Asian awareness club when he was in high school, not of Asian descent himself, the victim being Asian-American, I think that's also relevant when you look at the case. It's very suspicious to me his level of potential interest in her.

COOPER: Yes. No doubt we're going to learn a lot more in the days ahead. Lisa Bloom, Rhonda Saunders, thanks very much.

SAUNDERS: Thank you.

COOPER: Coming up next in the program, is it money for nothing? Protecting the country or wasting a fortune? Washington is pouring millions into a remote checkpoint. Why? We're "Keeping Them Honest."

And later, the breaking news inside Phillip Garrido's home. New pictures of the home of Jaycee Dugard's kidnapper, and you'll see what it has now been condemned.


COOPER: Creating jobs, saving the economy, those are the two driving forces behind the historic stimulus plan or I guess as they're calling it now, the recovery plan. To achieve the goals, Washington spent billions of dollars, taxpayer dollars. Politicians say the cash is not going to waste. Remember all that talk about accountability?

Well, tonight we have a surprise for them and for you. It's about two border crossings in Montana. Now, the checkpoints don't see much traffic or many people, for that matter. But they're getting a windfall from Washington.

"Keeping Them Honest," here is special investigations unit...


DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We knew this one we had to see to believe. But after driving for hours, we thought we might never see it.

(on camera) We've blown to Billings, Montana. We've been driving for five hours through a country that has more antelope than people. And I tell you, we've done the bridges to nowhere, the roads to nowhere. This may be the topper.

(voice-over) It was supposed to be $15 million to replace what appears to be a perfectly fine border crossing station, especially when you consider the Bureau of Transportation's statistics say this border crossing station at Scobey, Montana, sees fewer than 20 vehicles a day.

(on camera) It's not that you could just call this border crossing slow. Here I am in the middle of the day, sitting in the middle of the road. There's nobody here.

(voice-over) It's even quieter here, the border crossing at White Tail, Montana. The Bureau of Transportation statistics says the custom agents here get an average of fewer than two vehicles a day. Yet, this, too, was to see a $15 million upgrade, thanks to the federal stimulus bill.

BURL BOWLER, DANIEL COUNTY, MONTANA: I think everybody was pretty well blown away that their spending $32 billion in this county. I believe they need to update, but that just seems to be kind of a crazy number.

GRIFFIN: "Keeping Them Honest," we wanted to find out why so much money was suddenly heading to Montana's sleepy northern border, especially when you consider these crossings are so lightly used they're actually closed at night. Could it be politics? Since the Democrats took over in the Senate, Montana's two Democratic senators have become very powerful. Senator Max Baucus is chairman of the Senate Finance Committee. Senator John Tester is on the homeland security committee. And both took credit for the millions allocated out here in a joint press release saying they pushed homeland security for the stimulus spending. This is good news for all of Montana and especially communities across the northern tier, Senator Baucus said in that release.

Senator Tester said the spending would "pay off for generations to come by creating new jobs and opportunity that will benefit all of Montana." And just this week senator Tester reiterate his support in a statement saying to his spokesperson, "Because our borders are only as strong as their weakest link Jon supports sealing up all security gaps and expects to see the work done as responsibly and efficiently as possible."

The Department of Homeland Security even told us that security concerns, not politics, drove this decision to spend on the ports.

TRENT FRAZIER, DIRECTOR OF PORT MODERNIZATION, HOMELAND SECURITY: We feel that these ports, like all of the ports of entry, are a vital part of that network of security that we invest and the investments we're going to do are a critical step in insuring we can perform our mission.

GRIFFIN: Mark Shabbat's family has been farming this land for generation. His land is adjacent to the border crossing in Scobey. In winter, entire days go by, he says, where you won't see a single car. An idea to build a new border station that sees fewer than 20 cars a day at a cost of $15 million tax dollars, he says, could only have come from Washington.

MARK CHABOT, SCOBEY, MONTANA, RESIDENT: Well, when you're spending someone else's money, the cost is no big deal, right? If I was spending your money, what do I care? As long as you've got a big pocketbook, why do I care?

The accountability that we need to have and the sensibility and the common sense needs to apply here. I mean the senators did a fine job as far as getting money for northeast Montana, absolutely great. But would it be wiser spent on something more useful to the public generally?

GRIFFIN: Perhaps more useful than a sleepy border crossing that actually goes to sleep every night.


COOPER: So, Drew, where does the project stand right now?

GRIFFIN: Anderson, just hours after that DHS official was on camera with us defending this program, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano put it all on ice for at least 30 days until she can review just how these decisions were made. She said she wants "further transparency" in this process. So a big change. A big retreat there.

COOPER: So do we know why the change of heart?

GRIFFIN: I -- there was some press reports. Certainly, we were on the case. But I think the kicker, Anderson, was that another Democratic senator from a border state, North Dakota's Byron Dorgan, sent the homeland security secretary a note, saying, "You're spending money like a bottomless pit." That got her attention. And I think that pressure's what led to it.

COOPER: All right, Drew, thanks for the report, "Keeping Them Honest."

Up next, doctors and dollars. One M.D. takes on health-care costs, saying greedy physicians are to blame for the problems. Our special series, looking at medical malpractice, in a moment.

Plus, breaking news, new photos that expose the horrible conditions inside and around the California home where Jaycee Dugard was allegedly forced to live for 18 years. Can you imagine living in that place?


COOPER: We turn now to our series on medical malpractice. In his health-care reform speech last week, President Obama said he's open to changes in medical malpractice. But he also singled out a city in Texas that spends more on health care than almost anywhere else in the country. They spend more per patient than even the world- renowned Mayo Clinic.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's a town in McAllen, Texas, where costs are actually a third higher than they are at Mayo. But the outcomes are worse.


COOPER: That caught our attention, especially when we learned that Texas is supposed to have lower patient care costs, because it passed laws reducing malpractice lawsuits. So why is health care so expensive in McAllen, Texas?

Gary Tuchman found out -- a doctor who says he knows why.


GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This heart surgeon says the price for medical care in McAllen, Texas, is just way too high. And he's paying the price for speaking out.

(on camera) Do you think you're committing professional suicide?

DR. LESTER DYKE, HEART SURGEON: I do. I have. The results are plain. TUCHMAN: All right.

(voice-over) Dr. Lester Dyke doesn't put most of the blame on malpractice lawyers or insurance companies for the rising medical costs here. He blames his colleagues.

DYKE: A lot of doctors here are practicing in a way that treats the patients like ATM machines and essentially extracts the maximum amount of profit from the patient.

TUCHMAN: Dr. Dyke now spends much more time relaxing on his ranch, because he says other doctors are angry at him and have stopped referring him patients. His practice, he says, is down 70 percent since he started speaking out a few months ago.

DYKE: I am being blackballed. The only way they can pressure me to stop doing what I'm doing is to essentially cut off my referrals and try to make me quit practicing. And it may succeed.


TUCHMAN: Other doctors in McAllen acknowledge they are not happy with Dr. Dyke's charge that physicians here are excessively concerned about profits.

(on camera) Gastroenterologist Carlos Cardenas.

DYKE: I think he's a great doctor.

TUCHMAN: Do you feel, in any way, shape or form, he's right about this?

DYKE: I don't think -- I think that, you know, I think he's wrong because the majority -- overwhelming majority of physicians in this community practice good medicine.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Dr. Cardenas says there is no organized effort to stop referrals to Dr. Dyke. But there is no doubt about this fact: per patient costs in the country now are astounding.

According to a Dartmouth study, McAllen has the second highest health-care costs in the nation. Only Miami costs more. But McAllen is in one of the poorest counties in the U.S.

The average worker here makes about $12,000 a year. Yet, incredibly, the average health-care cost for a patient in this county is almost $15,000. What Medicare spends for the typical patients in McAllen is almost double what it spends in average patient nationwide. So what's going on in McAllen?

DYKE: The doctors are able to profit not just from being physicians like we have traditionally, but by ordering tests on equipment that they own or X-rays on equipment that they own, or sending patients to facilities that they own or have a financial interest in.

TUCHMAN: Extra tests and services to patients are often referred to as utilization.

DR. CARLOS CARDENAS, GASTROENTEROLOGIST: I think that we may have high utilization because we care for a lot of very sick people later in their disease that require more care. And if you require more care, you're going to have more utilization.

TUCHMAN: Dr. Cardenas works in an ultra-modern hospital in town called Doctors Hospital at Renaissance. He's one of the doctor owners of the hospital. And that is also criticized by Dr. Dyke, who offers this characterization.

DYKE: A lot of these doctors value money more than their patients' well-being.

CARDENAS: It hits me viscerally, because I know it's not true.

DYKE: There's enough, I think, ethical doctors in town that still continue to send me patients, not many, but I think enough to make a living. Not by much. And if there isn't, then I'll retire. I've been here a long time. I've done well. And, you know, I can just quit.

Gary Tuchman, McAllen, Texas.


COOPER: Who knew?

Next in our hour, "CNN Money Summit." What's happened in the year since Lehman Brothers declared bankruptcy, setting off the global financial crisis? We'll try to point you in the right direction moving forward.

"Money & Main Street" starts at 11 p.m. Eastern, about nine minutes from now.

But first, money and Michael Jackson. New documents reveal how much cash his mother, Katherine, is now getting to support herself and Jackson's kids.

And Susan Boyle, remember her? Well, she's singing now on American soil. Her U.S. debut with the Rolling Stones, our "Shot of the Day."


COOPER: Erica Hill joins us for a "360 Bulletin" -- Erica.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Anderson, breaking news: a first look inside the California home of kidnapping suspects Phillip and Nancy Garrido. The video just released tonight. The house, we should mention, has been condemned.

Investigators also revealing tonight cadaver dogs have picked up a scent that may indicate human remains have been buried on the property. The couple has pleaded not guilty to kidnapping Jaycee Dugard and holding her captive for 18 years.

Bernie Madoff's beach house in Montauk, New York, has sold for more than its $8.7 million asking price. The buyer isn't being named. The proceeds, though, will help to repay victims of Madoff's massive Ponzi scheme.

As the newly-unsealed court documents show, Michael Jackson's mother receives more than $86,000 a month from his estate to support herself and her three grandchildren. A judge approved the payout to Katherine Jackson last month, Anderson.

COOPER: Wow. All right. Erica, time for tonight's "Shot."

Susan Boyle, she's here in America, but she's not singing Broadway showstoppers. She's singing the Stones. Listen.


SUSAN BOYLE, SINGER: (singing "Wild Horses")


COOPER: Yes. "Wild Horses."

Giving it kind of her own Boyle touch. Her -- she was performing at "America's Got Talent." "Wild Horses" is on, apparently, her upcoming album, which is due out just before Thanksgiving. Get in line, Erica.

HILL: Preorder. Preorder.

COOPER: Preorder.

You can see all the most recent "Shots" on the Web site,

Coming up at the top of the hour, "CNN Money Summit: Money and Main Street." Is the recession really over? A panel of experts weighs in.


COOPER: Hey, I'm Anderson Cooper.

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Ali Velshi. Two topics in the hour ahead: the economy and you.

COOPER: It's been one year since Lehman brothers declared bankruptcy, putting into motion a series of events that plowed the American economy deeper into recession and cost you money.

VELSHI: Everyone felt the effects as the crisis rippled through the job, housing, and stock markets.

COOPER: In the hour ahead, we're going to figure out what happened over the past year and point you in the right direction for the year and years ahead. Our panel of experts will give you the tools you need to profit and even prosper. Tonight on this CNN "Money Summit: Money and Main Street."

A year after the fall of Lehman, there's good news and bad from the guys who crunch the economic numbers. First, the good.

Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said earlier this week the recession is very likely over. The bad news, not all economists agree with him, nor do most Americans.