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Arrest Made in Yale Murder; ACORN Under Fire
Aired September 17, 2009 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He did punch me, with a closed-fist, repeated times. My head is hurting still today; I have knots on my head.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Did he kick you too?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, yes, he did.
SANCHEZ: Race in America. On the record, a woman beaten in front of her daughter in the doorway of a cracker barrel. You're talking about it, the FBI is investigating, she joins me live.
Finally an arrest. Police say he did it. He strangled Annie Le and stuffed her in a wall at Yale University. We're on it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: this is outrageous, it was indefensible. Pimps, prostitutes and ACORN. The organization's CEO takes the tough questions, but also says
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a well orchestrated, well funded, concerted, relentless campaign to attack this organization.
SANCHEZ: Outrageous and indefensible actions by her own employees or a conspiracy by her organization's enemies? Which is it? Or is it both? We're breaking through.
We used to see a lot of Chris Brown like this. Then he beat Rihanna, and we got to see him like this. Now see the disgraced pop star in a whole new light.
Oh, and this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're so tired. Let me try to wake you up.
SANCHEZ: That's right. My longtime colleague joins me live and takes your questions during your national conversation for Tuesday, September 17, 2009.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez, a little jetlagged, but no worse for the wear. We're going to begin with this, the next generation of news, what we call a conversation, not a speech, and as always, it's your turn to get involved.
All right, let's start with this.
I want you to look at this guy's face. That's the face of today's news at Yale University, where 24-year-old Annie Le was killed last week. That guy you're looking at right there, I mean, he's been the center of controversy all week. That's Raymond Clark. He stood in court today charged with Annie Le's murder. Police in New Haven picked him up this morning, took him, handcuffed him and put him in jail.
We have rolled -- we have video of that, as a matter of fact. Let's roll it. All right, there it is right there. The police chief didn't say much today, but he did say two key words that are important here, workplace violence. Now, what do we take from that? Well, we know that Raymond Clark worked in the lab where Annie Le was doing her research. So does that mean that was the extent of their relationship?
Let me bring in Lou Palumbo now. He's a retired police officer who has been watching this story for us.
I will tell you, I almost feel free today to finally be able to refer to this guy as a suspect. Between -- for the last week or so, you and I have been dealing with this person of interest thing trying to figure out what was going on.
So, now that we know this, Lou, given what we know of the case, take us through what you believe happened between this man and Annie Le.
LOU PALUMBO, FORMER NEW YORK POLICE OFFICER: Based on the information that they have disclosed today about a workplace violence type scenario, apparently, these two knew each other and were familiar with each other.
And I would say it's safe to say that there was some form of a strained relationship. Apparently, there was a correspondence in the form of a text message, where he arranged this meeting the morning that he is accused of killing her.
The thing I also found interesting, Rick, is that if he did in fact arrange this meeting, we get into an issue of premeditation vs., how would you say, a fit of passion or spontaneous rage. So, I think that's something that the law enforcement agency has to delve into deeply because it's going to have some relevance when they come to the trial.
SANCHEZ: Well, relevance. It's amazing what you're sharing with us because this is a woman who on Sunday was due to be married. She was just a few days away from what was going to be the most important day of her life and something obviously which would have sealed another relationship.
Are you thinking what I'm thinking here?
PALUMBO: You mean in reference to maybe he wasn't ready to let go of her. That's a possible scenario.
SANCHEZ: Well, it happens time and time again with strange men all over this country who seem to think that they have some kind of ownership over a woman just because they're in a relationship with them.
PALUMBO: Well, the weird thing is that he may very well have been enamored with her. And one of the ways he expressed it was by maybe getting involved in some type of controversial discussions.
We don't really understand or know to an exactness of what the exchange was or the dialogue between the two of them. But it's safe to say that obviously there was a problem there. I think as the police continue to investigate this and interview individuals who knew the two of them in this workplace environment and this educational environment, it's going to continue to unfold.
SANCHEZ: That's amazing. I mean, this thing really has some drama attached to it.
By the way, you and I were talking about this yesterday during a commercial. And we didn't get a chance to share it on the air. But I'm still puzzled about this whole how he hid her in a wall thing. Can you take us through that? I mean, it's looking like there wasn't another person involved, Lou, which means he did everything by himself. How did he do it and what did he seem to do?
PALUMBO: Well, very simply, it was after he -- again, I don't want to convict him on television, but...
SANCHEZ: I understand.
PALUMBO: After the murder was completed, you know, she was only 4'11'' and about 90 pounds, Rick, so I don't think that she was particularly difficult to maneuver, so to speak.
And I think the fact that he worked in this facility afforded him the luxury, if I may use that term in loose context, of knowing the building structure. And in doing so, much the same way that we are familiar with water closets when we work in commercial buildings or buildings of this type, where pipes intersect or conduits for electrical purposes do, shutoff valves, so on and so forth, he had the ability to know where that was.
But I tell you, Rick, I'm concerned about the fact that he may have arranged this meeting. I don't know what the impetus was for the arrangement. But I tell you, in time, the whole thing will come out, because this gentleman's got a lawyer up, and he's got to do some talking.
And right now, based on our understanding of the amount of DNA that they collected at the scene, and the fact it apparently matches his DNA, along with other forensics, he's got to figure out is he making a deal here or is he just going to take the slam-dunk?
SANCHEZ: Well, when you hear the fact that he may have arranged some kind of deal, and we also find out that she was about to get married just few days later, and you put those two together, you do start wondering whether he had an M.O. here, whether he was somehow feeling like he needed to take care of some old business. Regardless, he's been a big part of this story for some time now. And you and I have been on television trying to figure out what the police's M.O. was regarding this suspect. So, let's listen to what the police chief said today during this morning news conference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES LEWIS, NEW HAVEN, CONNECTICUT, POLICE CHIEF: We have approximately 250 seized items now. A large number of those will eventually have to all go through the lab. We're prioritizing those issues and they're up at the lab now and they're doing DNA as we speak. I could get the results in 30 minutes or it could be hours. It's all up to the lab now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Given what he was just talking about, which is what seems like an awful lot of evidence, they knew that this was their guy probably when they first heard of him and laid eyes on him.
Why this dance? Why did they let him go? Why did they let him make bail? Why did they never call him a suspect? Why did they say they never arrested him? I am confused, Lou.
PALUMBO: Well, I think we're all a little confused, because, quite frankly, he was never a person of interest; he was a suspect.
The people that were persons of interest were the people that were also on that 700 hours of tapes that the law enforcement agencies reviewed. They had probable cause when they went to a judge and obtained a warrant to search his home and to search his person. So I don't understand what this semantical game is.
What it does for me is, it telegraphs to me that at times a law enforcement agency isn't sure of their footing on how they're going to proceed with a particular case. If you have probable cause sufficient enough to influence a judge to issue a warrant, you should have taken him into custody, period.
The second part of this thing that's a little disconcerting is that they elected to release him. Now, I do understand, based on what the chief volunteered, that he was under surveillance. But the reality of the situation is, regardless if he was under surveillance or not, if he became creative enough, how do we know he couldn't have slipped by the surveillance teams?
This guy was a flight risk. If they had charged him with a crime -- and I believe they could have at the time -- at arraignment, the judge would have held him at an extremely high bond, if he has. Or even if they release him, Rick, they take the passport. They restrict your travel.
And, most importantly, they start to put these types of devices on you that monitor your whereabouts at all times. So, I'm not real sure about what was going on behind the scenes or what people think is appropriate when they start to get into these areas of addressing people as people of interest vs. suspects.
(CROSSTALK)
PALUMBO: This man was a suspect.
SANCHEZ: That's why we like to have you on, Lou Palumbo, because you tell it like it is, even if you have to be critical of your own peers.
My thanks to you, sir.
PALUMBO: My -- thank you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TASHA HILL, BEATING VICTIM: He obviously felt very comfortable to attack me in the Cracker Barrel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That's the woman who's now at the center of an FBI investigation, beaten up, and police say it was a racist attack. I talked to her last night. She's coming in to visit with us here in the CNN studio.
Our headline earlier this week was pimps, prostitutes and ACORN. Well, last night, the organize's CEO also sat down with me to go through the accusations against ACORN. That is a confrontational interview and you will see it as they take the heat.
Also, remember the after-show today on CNN.com/live at 4:00 with my old pal Ovaltine, Robin Meade.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: You know, it's interesting. We have already gotten a lot of comments on a story that I was telling you I'm going to have in just a little bit.
Let's go to the Twitter board there. Start from the bottom, if you probably could, Zack (ph). All right, Zack, thanks, buddy.
"It seems more like a man beating down a woman he felt was inferior than a race thing, very similar, but still different."
That's an interesting point. It's a man beating up a woman, according to police. And then on top of that, he was apparently using to the N- word when he was beating her up. And she's a soldier, by the way. And this person says to me now: "Be nice to that soldier that got beat up today, Rick." He says that because she's just arrived in our studios here. She's in the makeup area now, and she's going to be coming down to sit next to me. "She deserves better. She fights for us all."
Well, my thanks. And I'm sure she thanks you for saying that as well.
All right, this time yesterday, I told you that I would be talking to the CEO of ACORN to ask her why her federally funded organization or group offered advice on scamming the government to a man and a woman posing as a pimp and a prostitute.
I was the first to interview Bertha Lewis since the controversy erupted, and that is why this is our breakthrough.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: How do you explain what Americans have seen on some of these videotapes? I mean, somebody advising, you know, alleged pimps and prostitutes, or people describing themselves as pimps and prostitutes to set up brothels. How do you explain this?
BERTHA LEWIS, CEO, ACORN: Pretty horrendous, isn't it?
SANCHEZ: Yes.
LEWIS: I mean, this would curl anyone's hair. And it was outrageous, it was indefensible, even know we know these tapes -- no one has shown totally unedited tapes, because you don't see tapes where they were thrown out of ACORN offices. You don't see tapes where people are told, you know, we can't help you. But be that as it may, I will not tolerate unprofessional -- not meeting our standards. I have got --
SANCHEZ: So the people -- so the people have been fired? The people that we see on these tapes have been fired?
LEWIS: Yes. And I -- but, listen, Rick. I have got over 700 employees. And, you know, this is a handful of folks. I immediately took swift action and I said, you know what, we're going to look at this. We're going to make a review from top to bottom so that this thing never happens again. We work too hard to have some trumped up thing like this happen.
SANCHEZ: Well, you got some serious problems right now and let me take you through them.
LEWIS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: The Senate voted to block your housing grants. The Census Bureau is blocking your organization from being used on those studies. And now you may be investigated by the FBI as well. I mean, you know what this is. This is a credibility problem. How are you going to overcome it?
LEWIS: Well, I don't think that this is just a credibility problem. I think this is a well-orchestrated, well-funded, concerted, relentless campaign to attack this organization.
We have been attacked from 2004, 2006. In fact, Karl Rove's e-mails just revealed a couple of weeks ago show that politically, he directed Alberto Gonzales and U.S. attorneys to go after us and no matter what, prove something on them.
SANCHEZ: The problem is this is not an isolated incident because there was the incident of what at least you would have to consider was sloppy voter registration campaigns earlier last year.
LEWIS: Let me stop you right there.
SANCHEZ: Please.
LEWIS: There was no sloppy voter registration campaign.
SANCHEZ: How would you describe it then?
LEWIS: In fact -- in fact, our quality control worked because you know why? Every single card, every single employee of ours that filled out a fraudulent card, you know who turned them in?
SANCHEZ: Who?
LEWIS: We did. We turned in every card, we flagged them, we tagged them. We were the ones that supplied all of this evidence. That's why we know our quality control works.
SANCHEZ: So that...
LEWIS: That's why these filmmakers went to dozens of offices, they were turned away. You need to make sure that CNN is able to show unedited versions of these tapes, show the whole thing...
SANCHEZ: Good point.
LEWIS: ... so that we can get back to the work of helping low and moderate-income people of color in this country.
SANCHEZ: Your point is well taken and we thank you, Bertha Lewis, for coming on tonight and taking the heat.
LEWIS: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: All right, by the way, we have got plenty of folks who have been commenting on this.
Let's go to one right now. Let's go to our Twitter board, if you can, Zack, if you want to move it on.
This is Paul Segreto, who is watching, who was just watching that interview. He sent this five seconds ago. "ACORN is more than a credibility problem. How about accountability and responsibility?"
We thank you for your comments.
All right, you saw it right there. Bertha Lewis took -- essentially taking the heat. She answered the questions. So, why won't James O'Keefe? He is the filmmaker, the conservative filmmaker who posed as that pimp to expose the apparent corruption at ACORN. Where is his unedited video?
She raised that question moments ago, Ms. Lewis, and it's a good question. It's a credible question. Who is backing O'Keefe financially is also a good question. Why is talking to FOX News, but why isn't he talking to Rick Sanchez? That's what we want to know. And that's just some of the questions that we would have for me. Again, the invitation stands.
Meanwhile, a story that we first reported to you is now continuing to get traction around the country on blogs, on social media, and on the air. On the heels of former President Jimmy Carter's statement about race in America, there's an incident in Georgia where police are investigating a man for allegedly beating up a woman who was with her daughter at the time. The FBI is investigating.
Well, here's what the woman told me exclusively last night on the Campbell Brown show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: My daughter had to stand by and witness the entire thing, and she was afraid. She had mentioned to me and had cried about the fact that she was trying to protect mommy by pushing the door, and the man pushed the door back and squished her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: There are developments on this story, so Tasha Hill is going to join me in just a moment. She's going to be sitting right here on the set with me, and she's going to taking us through this. There she is now.
My thanks you her courage for coming in and wanting to talk about this.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
You have had me. You have been tweeting me about this story ever since we first told you about it yesterday. This is about a woman who was walking into a Cracker Barrel restaurant -- it's just outside of Atlanta -- when this man who was walking out pushes the door, and it nearly hits her 7-year-old girl, just an accident, I mean, one of those things that happens. It can happen between anybody.
But the woman pointed out to the man what he had done. And we're going to get into specifics on this in just a moment. And according to police and according to witnesses, he proceeded to beat and kick her, this woman, while calling her racial slurs.
Now, the FBI is investigating this as a possible hate crime. The police have called it a racist act. And the woman at the center of it all, Tasha Hill, is good enough to join us as well, along with Kip, her attorney.
Thanks for being here, sir. KIP JONES, TASHA HILL'S ATTORNEY: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Tasha, how are you doing?
HILL: OK. Thank you.
SANCHEZ: I was told that you're kind of having a rough day today, because -- is this because of the beating?
HILL: Yes. I'm still in a lot of pain. My head is hurting me very bad. And I'm having trouble sleeping. And my knee and hand -- my hand and arm is still bothering me. It still hurts.
SANCHEZ: You're a soldier?
HILL: Yes, I am.
SANCHEZ: It's funny because I was reading the police report, and you tried to point that out to him, didn't you?
HILL: Yes. Usually, when I hear someone, it's almost like a -- when I mentioned it, I was in hopes that that would make him back off. I was intimidated by him standing close to me and pointing in my face, and, you know, basically cursing at me, that my daughter almost hit herself in the face with the door. So...
SANCHEZ: Now, the bit about the door, those things happen. That was -- it could be an accident. One person is walking in, one person is walking out. So, when that occurred, what specifically did you say to him?
HILL: I mean, like I have said several times before, all I said to him was, hey, excuse me sir. Watch out. You almost hit my daughter in the face with the door.
SANCHEZ: The witness says -- this is a witness named Lenora Brown (ph). I'm reading from the police report now.
It said that she heard West say to Hill, you say to him, be careful, right?
HILL: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Now, the woman goes on to say that then he said -- that then he started hitting you and called you a black N-word, B-word?
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Did he immediately start treating you that way and using those racial slurs?
HILL: As soon as I mentioned to him that he needed to watch out, he almost hit my daughter in the face with the door. He -- it was almost -- it was very scary to me. It was like he got hostile, like I lit a fire or something. He got very angry from me speaking to him.
SANCHEZ: So, I guess the question that we obviously would ask here -- counselor, maybe you can help us with us, because I think this is important, especially now that we're looking at literally a federal case.
Is there any kind of provocation that you would cede to at this point?
JONES: There was no provocation by Ms. Hill at all. (OFF-MIKE)
SANCHEZ: Well, let me ask you again -- oh, hold on. I think we forgot to put a microphone on you, but I'm going to come back to you in just a moment.
Are you surprised, Tasha, that there is so much being said about this story, that's it's all on all the blogs, that people are Twittering about it, and that the FBI is now investigating it as a potential hate crime?
HILL: I'm blessed to know that they are investigating it as a hate crime. It is surprising to me that something in 2009 like this can still occur.
I don't care what color the person is. I don't care if they're black, white, purple or green. It's -- it's not acceptable. And it's just shocking to me to know that it can -- something like that can take place.
SANCHEZ: And I just want to come back to this because this is important.
But was there -- and pardon me for re-asking -- can you think of anything that may have provoked him beyond the normal, sir, be careful, you almost hit my daughter?
HILL: Maybe my confidence and my demeanor as far as protecting my daughter.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Were you accusative? Were you angry when you said that?
HILL: No, I wasn't angry. I was protective of my child.
SANCHEZ: All right. I'm going to read to you something else from this police report, because this is important, because apparently when police started interviewing Mr. West, he told the police -- pardon me for giving you the top of my head there, folks. He told police that he was spat on by you.
HILL: Mm-hmm.
SANCHEZ: In this police document, it says that he was spit on.
JONES: Right. No doubt it does say that. However, this is coming from a man who viciously beat and kicked a woman in front of her child with no provocation.
Ms. Hill will tell you that -- uncategorically, that she did not spit on anyone in Cracker Barrel restaurant that day.
SANCHEZ: You know, we just had somebody who tweeted us -- and I think this is an interesting point -- say, you know, Rick, it's not so much that it's a racist thing, but what man would hit a woman like that?
Is that as much a part of this story as the race is for you?
HILL: I really can't get caught up in the race. I don't care if it was a black man. I know for a fact that I did not spit on him, first of all. And I just don't understand how that would condone a man hitting a woman in her head, in my face, with a closed fist repeatedly, until I fell to the ground, and then proceeded to kick me and call me, you know, the vulgar and vicious names that he called me.
I'm just disgusted in that. I don't care if it was a -- a black man. It doesn't make it right. So, they need to take race out of it and see it for what it is.
SANCHEZ: But the FBI is going to look at this as a race issue. In fact, it's only a hate crime
HILL: Because he called me...
SANCHEZ: Exactly.
HILL: ... an in -- excuse me -- but he said N-B-I-T-C-H over and over again while he doing it. And...
SANCHEZ: You say over and over again. How many times?
HILL: I blacked out after he -- once he -- I remember him hitting me once in the face, and I blocked it. And then he punched me again when I heard my daughter scream. And I fell down. And then I blanked out for a little while. I just...
SANCHEZ: I failed to ask you this, but I should have. Is your daughter OK?
HILL: She's actually a little -- she was doing a little bit better, but today she's having a rough day.
SANCHEZ: But she wasn't struck. He never struck her as far as you know, right?
HILL: No, but she said that she was squished when he tried to push the door -- he closed the door...
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: Rick, at one point, after attacking Ms. Hill, it appears from the videotape that Mr. West pushed the door shut to lock -- to trap them in the foyer, so she would alone with him, and to keep the daughter out. SANCHEZ: Kip, what are the police telling you about this case? Is she going to have to testify? Are they moving forward? Have you had any communication with federal officials, with the FBI, who apparently are now going to be actively investigating this as of this morning, I understand?
JONES: I have had no contact with the federal officials. We welcome any questions or queries they may have. However, the Clayton County district attorney and the Morrow Police Department have been extremely aggressive, we think, in prosecuting this case.
SANCHEZ: What do you know about this man?
JONES: I have heard rumors out of Poulan, Georgia, south Georgia, that he is -- has a conviction for simple battery, I believe. I think he's been arrested for terroristic threats in the past. Those chargers were dismissed. He wasn't convicted of terroristic threats. But he apparently does have a history of being a little aggressive and dangerous.
SANCHEZ: Do you believe he's a white supremacist?
JONES: There are rumors that he is a member of the KKK.
SANCHEZ: Well, again, those are rumors.
JONES: Correct.
SANCHEZ: Unconfirmed by CNN.
JONES: Correct.
SANCHEZ: And we are -- if anyone is watching right now, we're not reporting that he is a member of the KKK. We're not reporting that he is a white supremacist.
JONES: Right.
SANCHEZ: Certainly you can judge by his actions as this case continues. And that's one of the most important parts of this story that we're going to continue to follow. I don't mean to jump on you on that, but obviously we have to be careful...
JONES: Exactly.
SANCHEZ: .. when we say something about -- something like that about this person.
Do you believe that this is a trend? Because it's happening at a curious time. Just two days ago, the former president of the United States says that there are severe racial issues that we have to deal with in this country. And just on the heels of that, maybe by absolute happenstance, we have got this situation. What are your thoughts about that?
JONES: I have no idea whether it's a trend or not. What we want to see is this guy being prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, period. I don't know whether it's a trend or not. As far as I'm concerned...
SANCHEZ: When she says she would want him prosecuted whether he was white or black...
JONES: I think that's correct. He is simply a defendant who did use some horrible terms. He's probably a racist, a sexist.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But it's him. It's not a whole group of people.
JONES: That's right.
SANCHEZ: And I think that's probably what's important, isn't it?
JONES: I agree. It's him.
SANCHEZ: The actions of one man, not all other white people who happen to live in any geography.
JONES: That is true. But it's curious to note that this attack happened in Cracker Barrel. He's obviously very comfortable beating up black women in Cracker Barrel. And I kind of wonder about that.
SANCHEZ: Well, but I'm not sure that's fair. I'm not sure. I mean, that probably could have happened -- probably could have happened anywhere.
JONES: Rick, you haven't seen the videotape. You haven't seen how casually he sauntered off after attacking Ms. Hill.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: All right. Well, I'll tell you what, I think we've got we've got a statement from Cracker Barrel. I'm going to be sharing that with you in just a moment.
Go ahead, Tasha.
TASHA HILL, BEATING VICTIM: I would like to mention that while I was getting attacked, there were several -- there was a white man that I remember, I looked up and I saw him, he had a smile on his face. There were several people that were just standing around. They were -- once they got that -- the first door open, there were people in there and even when...
SANCHEZ: Nobody came to your aid?
HILL: There were two witnesses that spoke up on my behalf. There was one woman that was an African-American woman. The other woman was a white woman.
SANCHEZ: Is that the Nora Brown (ph)?
HILL: I don't know their names, sir.
SANCHEZ: OK.
HILL: All I know is that those two women, out of that entire environment, only two women spoke up.
SANCHEZ: And how many people were there?
HILL: I can't remember. I...
SANCHEZ: Was there more than 10?
HILL: There was a lot of men and women standing around, and they were all white.
SANCHEZ: And when he was beating you, nobody came to your defense?
HILL: Nobody.
JONES: I think the videotape clearly shows two men within six feet of the door who did not respond to help Ms. Hill at all. Granted one was holding a baby, I suppose you can excuse him. The other one gentleman just stood there looking.
SANCHEZ: Well, I'll tell you. We've drilled down on this as much as we possibly can. I want to thank both of you for coming in.
JONES: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Obviously, we're going to try to get the other side of the story. We have reached out to Mr. Hill, to try and see if he would talk to us as well -- Mr. West, I'm sorry, to see if he would talk to us as well. So far we've not been able to make contact. We want to give him his chance to explain his part of the story as well. And we'll continue to do so.
My thanks to both of you and I hope your daughter's doing well.
HILL: Thank you.
JONES: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Thank you. Appreciate it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY CARTER, FMR. U.S. PRESIDENT: Those kind of things are beyond the bounds of the way presidents have ever been accepted -- even with people who disagree.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: We alluded to this just moments ago, but there's more on this story. Former President Jimmy Carter is not backing down, even after President Obama distanced himself from the former Democratic president's comment on race. President Carter comes back with even more. And you're going to hear it all.
Also, remember the after show today with Robin Meade right here at 4:00. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right, welcome back.
We mention in this conversation moments ago Cracker Barrel. And we at CNN would not think it's disparage -- it would be fair to disparage Cracker Barrel for something that happened between two people who just happened to be walking in and out of their store. So, in that vein, let me read to you what Cracker Barrel's statement is.
"Please know that Cracker Barrel believes that it is a reprehensible when something like this happens anywhere, let alone in our store, and Cracker Barrel has been in contact with Ms. Hill since the incident. As soon as the incident became apparent, Cracker Barrel employees immediately came to Ms. Hill's aid and called the police. As the case proceeds, Cracker Barrel will continue to cooperate with authorities at all levels of the government."
Just as a caveat to that, I should also let you know that Cracker Barrel has indeed a videotape of this incident. They have not released it yet. But we are learning from sources that we have talked to that soon after subpoenaing the tape, Cracker Barrel will most likely to have to release it. And, obviously, we are going to stay on top of that and share it with you as well -- especially if it explains what actually happened there.
When we come back, Jimmy Carter didn't only say it once, he's also said it again. And I'm going to let you hear what Jimmy Carter said last light. But before we get into that, here's the set up, here's how we got to where we are right now with the president's comments. This story is put together by one of our best.
Here's CNN's Candy Crowley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Race and politics is a combustible combo, and it explodes into headlines when an ex-president lights the fuse, as Jimmy Carter did on NBC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "NBC NIGHTLY NEWS")
CARTER: An overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama is based on the fact that he is a black man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: There is a tiny part of this argument that is not an argument.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: We cannot deny that race does indeed have an impact in our society.
CROWLEY: Racism is there to see online and on the signs held by some protesters, but the former president sees racism across a much broader swath.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "NBC NIGHTLY NEWS")
CARTER: Bubbled up to the surface because of a belief among many white people -- not just in the South, but around the country -- that African-Americans are not qualified to lead this great country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: The last time the chairman of the Republican Party looked, many white people had voted for an African-American to lead this country. Michael Steele says Carter's broad condemnation of protesters is dead wrong and diminishes real racism.
MICHAEL STEELE, RNC CHAIRMAN: He's elevated it to the point that it is now, you know, a reaction to everything, everybody who has this negative approach or view on this subject is a racist.
CROWLEY: Arguments about race are political losers, it turns off independents who by nature hate the hard edges of politics. The White House wants none of this.
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president does not believe that -- that criticism comes based on the color of his skin.
CROWLEY: The White House may not want to talk about it, but this is one of those watercooler moments, kicked off by two words.
REP. JOE WILSON (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: You lie!
(BOOING)
CROWLEY: Congressman Joe Wilson's outburst was -- according to Jimmy Carter -- based on race.
But ask around.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I do think that racism played a part.
CROWLEY: And what you hear...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More about politics than race.
CROWLEY: ... is not just about color...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think, given the context, I don't think it's impossible for anyone to say either for sure.
CROWLEY: ... but about politics...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When the liberals are losing an argument, they go to the good old race card. CROWLEY: ... and about prisms.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm sure that he never expected to have to hail to an American-African chief.
CROWLEY: Barack Obama was elected with more white votes than any Democrat since Jimmy Carter. There was talk then of a post-racial America. And that's what it remains, talk.
Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Again, in case you haven't heard it. Jimmy Carter is not finished. Wait until you hear what he said last night. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Former President Jimmy Carter said it and last night, he decided he would stick to his guns. What he's suggesting is that some of the people we see at the town hall meetings and some tea parties, even a certain member of Congress who called the president a liar -- that all of that is based on the fact that they cannot accept having a black man sitting in the White House.
Mr. Carter was saying in public what others have said in private. He's saying some of this debate is all about racism, plain and simple. And last night, he was asked about it again. Keep in mind, the current president's spokesperson is saying the White House does not agree with President Carter.
So, after hearing that, would President Carter back down? Would he soften his position? Here, let's listen for ourselves.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARTER: When a radical fringe element of demonstrators and others begin to attack the president of the United States of America as an animal, or as a reincarnation of Adolf Hitler, or when they wave signs in the air that said we should have buried Obama with Kennedy -- those kinds of things are beyond the bounds of the way presidents have ever been accepted, even with people who disagree. And I think people that are guilty of that kind of personal attack against Obama have been influenced to a major degree by a belief that he should not be president because he happens to be African-American. It's a racist attitude.
And my hope is and my expectation is, that in the future, both Democratic leaders and Republican leaders will take the initiative in condemning that kind of unprecedented attack on the president of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yet, here's what the spokesman says, Gibbs said, "The president thinks his loudest opponents are against him over policy, not over the color of his skin."
All right. This big-time pop star convicted of beating his former girlfriend -- now, Chris Brown is completing part of his sentence in a much different environment than he's used to. Also, that Yale student murdered just days before her wedding. We've got updates on that story as well.
Stay with us, I'm going to be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Larry King's going to be exploring that tonight and so are we. Yale University, police there are not searching for any other suspects. That's a big part of this story. That means they're pretty sure that they've got their man.
Let's show them the picture. That's the guy right there -- the guy that they picked up this morning. Raymond Clark -- he's charged with last week's murder of Annie Le. The charges, he attacked her, he strangled her, and he stuffed her in the -- stuffed her body in a wall.
Clark is the same age as Le. They're both 24 years old. He's not a student though. He worked in the lab where she was doing research. His job was taking care of the laboratory mice and cleaning their cages.
"Fotos" is next and you're not going to believe some of the videos we have come up with, including one of the tallest men in the entire world.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: As you drive by hillsides on roads all over America -- but especially when you travel to Latin America, and Central America, you see crosses all along the road or monuments marking where some horrible accident happened. And if you're like me, you wonder, what's the story behind that cross? Or what's the story behind that monument?
That is where we begin "Fotos."
(MUSIC)
SANCHEZ: Ay dios mio is, right, oh, my God. Here's the story on what will no doubt mark a monument, a new one. It began as a field trip for some school kids in Peru. But that field trip ended at the bottom of a ravine. The bus fell more than 500 feet off of a cliff. Volunteers rushed in and carried survivors to safety. Unfortunately, eight teenagers died on that field trip. And that's who the cross on the side of that highway will memorialize.
OK. That's Chris Brown, he's on the right. He's the big time pop star who beat up his girlfriend. And that's her, Rihanna, on the left. She is talented, beautiful -- and some would say foolish as well for staying with him. Today, though, she's probably looking beautiful and doing something very pop star-ish.
As for Chris Brown, well, not so much. He spent the day picking up trash -- picking up trash as part of his court-mandated community service. Make sure you get all of that, Chris.
While few people look up to Chris Brown these days, let me show you somebody everybody looks up to. What a cool segue. Snap.
This is the new tallest man in the world according to "The Guinness Book of Records." People have unveiled the new world's tallest man. Sultan Kosen is a Turkish farmer who measures at eight feet tall and one inch. That's big.
By the way, there are reports there is a guy who's four inches taller, but he refused to be measured. So this guy won instead. The other guy's probably negotiating with Mark Cuban. Just guessing.
(MUSIC)
SANCHEZ: All right. I've known my next guest for many, many, many years. We go way back. You got that -- show that picture of her. Go ahead, Johnny, show that. Right there.
See that? There she is right there. That's me. That's her. Yes. I know, it's kind of surrounded by old friends.
That's Robin Meade, folks. And she's joining me in a moment. Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: About a year ago, we created something new. It was the marriage of mainstream and new media. We call it your "national conversation."
And now, we're taking it up even a step further. I'm going to invite any of you who wants to come here to Atlanta and visit us and become a part of our show on the air. That's right. It's called "Inside the Conversation Tour."
If you want to do it, just call this number. It's 877-4CNN-TOUR -- 877-4CNN-TOUR.
And there's another anchor who actually offers that as well. Someone who's gracious enough to want to hang out with -- you know, I'm a people guy.
ROBIN MEADE, ANCHOR, HLN'S MORNING EXPRESS: Yes, you are.
SANCHEZ: And you're a people gal.
MEADE: I hope so, anyway. Hi, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Robin Meade's going to be joining me as my guest in just a little bit. Stay there. This is going to be good.
You got something to say. And a book.
MEADE: And a book.
SANCHEZ: And a book.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Good afternoon, sunshine. Somehow it doesn't work.
MEADE: You stole it!
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: It doesn't work for me.
MEADE: It's my line.
SANCHEZ: Oh, man. Robin Meade. As a matter of fact, you guys -- shoot the book. This is called -- look at that. It's called "Morning Sunshine!"
MEADE: Look at all the notes Rick has made. At least you did your home work.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You know, some people do that. I had you and Blagojevich this week. I had to read both of those, so, you know?
MEADE: Opposite ends of the spectrum.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: A little bit.
Well, here's why I think people are going to be fascinated by your story. Because you are someone who people see as -- you know, let's face it, a glamorous star on television. And a lot of people may see you that way. But you write in this book that there's an every person quality or an every person aspect to your life that occurred at one time. You had panic attacks.
MEADE: Yes, on the air, no less. So the book is called "Morning Sunshine!" -- that's my thing I say in the morning -- "How to Radiate Confidence and Feel It, Too." And it details my struggles with anxiety attacks that happened about 10 years ago. On the air -- there's the cover -- which is a little hard to do your job when you can't breathe and your heart's palpitating. And I don't want people to...
SANCHEZ: And you were on the air. I mean...
MEADE: On the air.
SANCHEZ: ... you write about -- I mean, you're very honest and very transparent about this in this book.
MEADE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: You literally say you couldn't get words out. You were in Chicago at the time.
MEADE: Yes. There was a breaking news story. Someone briefs by with the scripts like you've got there, and I hadn't seen it before. And it was -- it was so long that I'm getting (INAUDIBLE) going to drop it down. And I just happened to have a bad thought, like, huh, wouldn't it just be awful if you couldn't make it through the sound bite? You know, the sound that you play on tape.
I don't know why I had that thought but my mind ran with it. And suddenly, da, da, da -- the show opens and I can't breathe. And I'm not going to make it to the sound bite. I thought it. My brain followed through.
So, this was the start of a real-time of discovery for me. It kept happening on the air. And I thought to myself...
SANCHEZ: I got a problem.
MEADE: I got a problem -- well, I'm going to have to leave my job, is what I thought. I'm going to have to quit. I can't do it anymore. I've lost my talent.
SANCHEZ: Was it confidence? I mean, what is a panic attack?
MEADE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: What's a panic attack?
MEADE: Well, it's -- for me, it was a lack of self-confidence that manifested itself physically on the air. So, I don't want people to think this book is all about panic and anxiety. It's not. It's under the umbrella of self-esteem, self-doubt.
And who doesn't have doubts about themselves? Maybe Rick doesn't. But most of us...
(LAUGHTER)
MEADE: Most of us have doubts about ourselves one time or another.
SANCHEZ: Yes, talk to my wife and kids. You'll see. That's a panic attack in the making every day.
But here's why it's interesting, because that's a very human thing.
MEADE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And I guarantee you, there are tons of people out there who are going to relate to the fact you had this experience, because I'm sure you were humbled by it and I...
MEADE: Oh, was I ever. I was humiliated and mortified.
So, in discovering what my little problem was, I came to understand that -- you know, a lot of people, I think their confidence is built on what they look like or their standing in the community. For me -- and I think for a lot of our viewers -- it was always about who likes me? Can I make you like me if you don't like me?
SANCHEZ: How can you do -- how can you not feel that way if you've got to stare at these stupid cameras every day like you and I have to do.
MEADE: And you're looking at the ratings everyday. But I can honestly say that ever since I was a young child, being liked is my power with people. So, if I thought, well, I've got a new boss. I've got to make them like me.
SANCHEZ: Let me...
MEADE: In essence, I was really not being my authentic self. I was filling the bill of whatever I thought was perfect.
SANCHEZ: This is great. And you and I are going to stick around. We're going to have another conversation, catch up, because you and I known each other for many years. Do me a favor. Toss things over to Wolf Blitzer. He's got the next show.
MEADE: You know what? Wolf actually wrote a nice blurb on the back of this book.
Wolf, thank you so much for reading this book. I appreciate it.
