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American Morning

High School Coach Found Not Guilty of Homicide; Obama To Make Rounds of Talk Shows This Sunday; Congress Looks at Extending Unemployment Benefits; Stimulus Funds Aimed for Montana Held Up by Waste Investigation

Aired September 18, 2009 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: So she's going to come at this on both sides, as a mom and as someone who's really been involved in the health care profession.

T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Well, our Suzanne Malveaux, again, the only reporter who is up and reporting live up there at the White House right now. Suzanne, always good to see you. Thank you so much. We'll see you again soon.

MALVEAUX: OK. I'll be out here again tomorrow.

HOLMES: All right. She loves that title.

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: She's not tracking Paris Hilton.

HOLMES: She's not, yes.

Good morning to you all again. I'm T.J. Holmes sitting in this morning for John Roberts on this September the 18th.

CHETRY: And I'm Kiran Chetry. Thanks so much for being with us. Here's what's on the agenda. These are the big stories we'll be breaking down for you in the next 15 minutes.

Sources say the threat is very real, the FBI right now saying nothing. Terrorists in the U.S. plotting an attack on New York City subways or commuter trains, raids in Queens setting off the red flags, and the investigation has now spread all the way to the Rockies. We'll tell you what our sources are saying about this, next.

HOLMES: And it was a tragic case, a teen being pushed to the limits at a football practice. This ended with a teenager dead three days later.

The coach was charged with reckless homicide, and now he's been acquitted. We'll tell you what happened in court and talk with one of the prosecutors in the case, coming up.

CHETRY: Plus, millions were spent at border crossings in the middle of nowhere, but is anyone safer because of it? The CNN special investigations unit has some tough questions for the Department of Homeland Security as well as members of Congress.

We begin this hour with new developments on a story that we've been tracking for you all week, an alleged terror plot stretching from Colorado to New York that could be targeting train stations and subways.

It started with raids on apartments in Queens a few days ago. Sources are now telling CNN this investigation is ongoing and that the threat is real.

An Afghan national at the center of the investigation is believed to have ties to Al Qaeda. The FBI has been questioning him for days in Denver, and that's where our Homeland Security Correspondent Jeanne Meserve is live this morning following all the developments for us.

Good morning, Jeanne.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kiran. This is still a very active investigation, multiple sources have told CNN that during the searches in New York, they did discover backpacks, a number of backpacks.

And although investigators still do not know the scope of this possible plot or its target, the discovery of the backpacks, sources say, has led to theorizing that they may have been looking at a major transportation hub where there was not any airport-style screenings, something like a train station or a subway station.

Again, authorities don't know definitively if this was the target, but this is an operating theory that they're working on.

Two sources tell CNN that investigators did find bomb-making instructions, one law enforcement official telling us that they were found on a computer that was carried to New York by Najibullah Zazi. Zazi is the 24-year-old Afghan national who is at the center of this investigation. His lawyer is disputing that information.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARTHUR FOLSOM, ATTORNEY FOR NAJIBULLAH ZAZI: I have no information confirming anything like that, and all I could possibly say is that my client has no comment at this time. If you have any questions, you can direct them to me.

All I can say is that if they had found bomb-making materials in his car, on his computer, or one wild report I saw yesterday that there were something like enough explosives in the apartment to blow up two buildings, do you really think the FBI would have allowed us to walk out of here last night?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MESERVE: And Zazi is reportedly scheduled to meet again with the FBI this morning. That would be his third meeting with them.

He worked for about six months for an airport limousine company here in Denver. I spoke with someone at that company yesterday who described Zazi as "a good kid, nerdy, not religious." He said he laughed when he heard that he was being investigated as part of a possible terror plot.

But sources within law enforcement continue to insist that this is the real deal and that unprecedented resources have been poured into New York and into Denver to deal with it. Kiran, back to you.

CHETRY: All right, Jeanne Meserve for us this morning, thanks.

HOLMES: Also, new developments this morning in a case that's watched by schools and parents and coaches across this country. It was a high school football coach accused of a player's death after a pretty rough practice on a brutally hot day.

A jury in Louisville, Kentucky has now found Jason Stinson, the coach, not guilty in the death of the 15-year-old student athlete. Our Alina Cho has reaction and the latest developments for us this morning.

And my goodness, this is going to have people talking for quite some time. It might change up the game across the country.

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. A precedent-setting trial, to be sure, guys. Good morning.

You know, it took the jury less than two hours. The trial is believed to be first of its kind in the country, a coach charged in the death of one of his players. Huge implications for every high school coach in America.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, find the defendant, David Jason Stinson, not guilty.

CHO: With that, a huge sigh of relief from Jason Stinson and high school coaches everywhere. A jury cleared Stinson of reckless homicide and wanton endangerment in the death of Max Gilpin.

The 15-year-old died of heat stroke after collapsing during football practice last August. His mother said the trial had still sent a message.

MICHELLE CROCKETT, MAX GILPIN'S MOTHER: We're disappointed, but, you know, we said this going into it -- the main objective was that Max's death not be in vain. People are standing up to those football coaches now, and people are reaching out.

CHO: Gilpin had been running sprints called gassers on a day when temperatures hit 94.

During the trial, players said Stinson ordered the gassers as punishment for the lack of effort they showed at practice. Prosecutors describe the sprints as barbaric. Stinson's attorney argued it was just football.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It did not create a hostile, dangerous environment. It was a football practice. CHO: Even without a guilty verdict, prosecutors say the trial has raised awareness.

LELAND HULBERT, PROSECUTOR: Every coach steps on a football field and now thinks about what he's doing a little bit more, maybe thinks about water a little bit more, watches his players a little bit more. We're all better off for having this case.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHO: You can bet that is happening across the country.

Now, one witness testified that Gilpin could have been saved had he been immersed in ice water almost immediately after collapsing on the field.

Medical experts for the defense said it was actually a combination of heat and the use of the dietary supplement Creatine, which can dehydrate you, along with attention deficit disorder Adderal, that were the main factors that contributed to Gilpin's death, which they called an accident.

In fact, three of his classmates testified that Gilpin had been complaining that he wasn't feeling well all day long, guys, on the day that he collapsed.

HOLMES: A sad, sad story, no doubt. And I think there were six deaths last year altogether in heat-related deaths for athletes. But this is the first one we've seen a coach charged.

CHO: That's right. And it's certainly one that people have been watching across the country, and, as we said, hopefully, precedent- setting. At the very least, coaches will be watching their players much more closely on the field.

HOLMES: Hey, that's a good thing. Alina, thank you so much this morning.

And a prosecutor in this case is going to be joining us here live in just a few minutes. Jon Heck is his name. We'll see what he has to say this morning about the outcome.

CHETRY: They're calling it "OTV," "Obamapalooza," whatever you call it, the president is going to be all over television and the airwaves this weekend.

So, we're going to be talking to two of the best in the business when it comes to public relations. Is this a good thing or is there a risk of overexposure?

It's eight minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: A shot of the White House this morning on this Friday morning. It's cloudy there in the nation's capital, 65 degrees right now. It's going to be sunny, though, later today, 80 degrees.

Right now it's ten minutes past the hour. Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.

Well, you think you've seen a lot of the president lately? Get set to see even more. The Obama media blitz is coming. The president will be giving interviews to five networks on Sunday, including right here at CNN.

Following that, he's going to appear on David Letterman on Monday night, and some are saying, is it too much?

Veteran public affairs relations consultant Ken Sunshine, who represents big names in business, entertainment, and politics, joins us from London this morning.

And we also have with us Glen Bunting, managing director of Sitric and Company, a public relations firm specializing in crisis management and media strategy join us from L.A. Thanks to both of you for being with us.

KEN SUNSHINE, FOUNDER, SUNSHINE, SACHS, & ASSOCIATES: Glad to be here.

CHETRY: So it seems that everywhere we turn, as we've said, we're going to be seeing a lot of the president. He's appearing on five network shows, he's doing late-night. He has been giving some speeches at rallies. He was at the University of Maryland yesterday.

Ken, what do you think? Is there a risk of overexposure in trying to get out your message?

SUNSHINE: I don't think so. I think, frankly, he was underexposed for too long, particularly on this health care bill. And he's turning it. He's turning public opinion. He's playing offense as opposed to defense, which is the cardinal rule in a political fight like this.

He's going against the misinformation that was out there or the wild exaggerations -- pulling the plug on grandma. And this guy knows how to sell something and he's pretty good at politics. He reminds me of the campaign, and when he gets in campaign mode, it's hard to bet against him.

CHETRY: Now, Glen, you say as a media strategist, you wouldn't advise most of the time for your clients to do back-to-back-to-back interviews. Do you think there is a risk for overexposure, and why?

GLENN BUNTING, MEDIA STRATEGIST: Well, I do. I think that Ken 's right. He is the person that you want selling his program. And when he is in campaign mode, as he proved, there is nobody like him. He is the best. And the American people do want to hear from him.

But we would never really recommend that one of our clients do five interviews like this, and it really has to do with preparation. It has to do with your ability to tell your message. And he has five journalists who are going to be gunning for him. Each are going to be trying to get him to slip up, to get their kind of "gotcha" moment.

And I just think that it's a very risky strategy. He'd be much better off doing one, maybe two. Doing five, I think it's a bit of a high-wire act.

CHETRY: And Ken, this is also interesting. When you do so many appearances and you're out there, is there a risk that people sort of start to tune you out?

I mean, even the president, who we know is great when he speaks at the rallies, he was really credited with being a great campaigner and getting people very fired up. But at the same time, is there a tune-out risk?

SUNSHINE: You know, there could be a tune-out risk if he weren't doing the same kind of shows, most of which are Sunday morning, geared to a very specific demographic of opinion-makers, and it doesn't permeate middle America directly. If he were doing every primetime show on network television, it would be different.

But I think it's very clever. It also ups the ante. Mess with him. Look the president in the eye and say that he's going to pull the plug on grandma.

It also is seizing the moment and becoming offensive again as opposed to being defensive. This guy knows how to campaign. He's in campaign mode, and that is what I think has turned the corner on this very complicated debate.

CHETRY: Glen, it's interesting, Suzanne Malveaux, our White House reporter, brought up one aspect that I thought was interesting, which is, is there a possible fear that perhaps he wasn't getting his message out the way that he wanted to get it out before, which is why he's being forced to now go on so many shows and try to sell this health care pitch, that the pitch wasn't working before?

BUNTING: Well, I don't think...

SUNSHINE: I think he was forced...

BUNTING: He was relying on other people to do it, and that's kind of the problem, you know, is that it was the spinmeisters, it was the people in his administration. And it began to just sound like clutter. And I think that he's able to get through that.

And the American people have a lot of questions, primarily, how is he going to pay for it? And I think that's what he really has to focus on.

And, you know, this may be more of a policy problem than a P.R. problem. People have a hard time believing right now, you know, based on his message, that it is going to be solving waste, fraud, and abuse is the way to pay for this. And he's really got to kind of nail that one. I assume that that's what he's going to be asked about. And so, I think he has to have some good answers.

CHETRY: Right.

BUNTING: And I think the American people want to hear from him. And so, that's really his challenge.

CHETRY: And Ken , before we go, is this sort of a double-edged sword for the White House? The media -- members of the media constantly asking for interviews. Then they grant five interviews plus a Letterman appearance, and then we ask, is he overexposed? Is it a no-win situation in some ways?

SUNSHINE: It's great. I love when the media gets what it wants and then complains about.

(LAUGHTER)

It it's just the perfect media storm for the media to overanalyze the issue, as they always do.

The fact is that health insurance companies are a lot less comfortable with the argument now as opposed to what they were a month or two ago, when I think they brilliantly seized the issue.

And the president will, I think, change the whole course of this argument by being as aggressive and as, frankly, risky as he is. The one risk could be the "gotcha" moment, you know, the one interview that gets him to say something stupid or something that could be misinterpreted.

But I would bet against that really happening. But that is the one risk, in answer to your previous question.

CHETRY: All right, well, we're out of town. I want to thank Ken sunshine and Glen Bunting for coming on and talking about it with us this morning. Great perspective from both of you, thanks.

SUNSHINE: Thank you.

BUNTING: Thanks.

HOLMES: Well, it was the catch, release, and then embrace that was seen around the country. And now the daddy and daughter that have become darlings will be here with us live in studio, and we are not handing her anything that is fragile.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. It's 20 past the hour here.

Christine Romans joining us, talking about a problem that a lot of people saw coming, hoping it wouldn't come to this, but... CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It's coming.

HOLMES: ... some of those unemployment benefits, hold on, they'll only keep you afloat for so long.

ROMANS: It's supposed to be 26 weeks. We've already had an extension in some places.

The only thing worse than trying to live on a jobless check is trying to live without a jobless check when you have for every open job in this country, six qualified applicants. So it's tough out there. It's taking a long time, a record long time in some cases to actually get a new job.

So the House is considering another vote to extend unemployment benefits further. This would be in states, more than half the states, actually, that have 8.5 percent unemployment rate or higher.

So you can see these states here. This is where the House is considering extending your unemployment benefits to get an additional 13 weeks of checks.

You know, the recession has lasted so long that, frankly, thousands and thousands of people are facing these checks running out, maybe 300,000, at least, 400,000 by the end of September, a million by the end of the year, depending which numbers you look at.

So, this is a very serious situation. The House is going to take a look at it again.

Of course, you have to pay for all of this, but right now the idea here is that you don't want hundreds of thousands of people coming off their unemployment checks when the job market simply is not going to have a job for them.

HOLMES: Is the clock ticking? I mean, is there enough of an urgency to this that it seems like people are moving up on Capitol Hill that this needs to get done quickly?

ROMANS: Yes. The House is looking at it. The Democrats in the House say they want to do this, they definitely want to do this.

Advocates for people, for the jobless say that it's absolutely -- you have to do it. You cannot have another kick to the economy when these things all expire, and people are literally out there with no money, and the housing market is still very difficult.

HOLMES: All right. You have a numeral. What is it this hour?

ROMANS: I do. It's 9.4 million. With 307 million people in this country, 9.4 million...

CHETRY: That's how many are collecting jobless benefits right now?

ROMANS: That's the total number of people, including all these emergency benefits, all of these people who have been on continuing claims, all these people who have already had their jobless check extended, more than 9 million people are paying the bills with a jobless check.

CHETRY: It's a tough situation.

ROMANS: Yes.

CHETRY: No doubt about it.

ROMANS: So, we'll watch it in the House. And that vote's next week, so I'll let you know about that and how it moves through the Senate if it does.

CHETRY: And whether or not companies start hiring again.

ROMANS: Yes.

CHETRY: Christine, thank you.

Meanwhile, we talk about stimulus cash, right? Well, this is a case of perhaps stimulus cash going nowhere, at least not necessarily being used the right way.

Drew Griffin, our special investigations unit reporter, has an exclusive after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: Shot of the White House this morning at 24 minutes past the hour. It's cloudy in D.C., 64 right now. A little bit later, though, it's going to be sunny, a high of 81 in the nation's capital.

And welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.

We're tracking your stimulus dollars. It's a bill that many lawmakers reportedly didn't read. It's money that the government told us was desperately needed to prevent a global economic meltdown.

And in this CNN exclusive, our special investigations unit found out that a lot of it is going to the middle of nowhere -- nowhere, Montana, that is. Our Drew Griffin takes us there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT, SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT: We knew this one we had to see to believe, but after driving for hours, we thought we might never see it.

GRIFFIN (on camera): We've flown to Billings, Montana. We've been driving for five hours through a country that has more antelope than people, and I'll tell you, we've done the bridges to nowhere, the roads to nowhere, but this may be the topper.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): It was supposed to be $15 million to replace what appears to be a perfectly fine border crossing station, especially when you consider the Bureau of Transportation's statistics say this border crossing station at Scobey, Montana, sees fewer than 20 vehicles a day.

GRIFFIN (on camera): It's not that you could just call this border crossing slow. Here I am in the middle of the day sitting in the middle of the road. There's nobody here.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): It's even quieter here, the border crossing at Whitetail, Montana. A Bureau of Transportation statistics say that custom agents here get an average of fewer than two vehicles a day.

Yet, this, too, was to see a $15 million upgrade thanks to the federal stimulus bill.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I think everybody was pretty well blown away that there's been $32 million in Daniel's County on new border stations. I believe they need to update it, but that just seems to be kind of a crazy number.

GRIFFIN: Why, suddenly, was so much money supposed to come to northeast Montana border crossings, especially when you consider that these border crossings are so unused they're both closed at night? Could it be politics?

Since the Democrats took over in the Senate, Montana's two Democratic senators have become very powerful. Senator Max Baucus is chairman of the Senate Finance Committee. Senator Jon Tester is on the Homeland Security Committee. And both took credit for the millions allocated up here in a joint press release, saying they pushed Homeland Security for the stimulus spending.

"This is good news for all of Montana and especially communities across the northern tier," Senator Baucus said in that release. Senator Tester said the spending would "pay off for generations to come by creating new jobs and opportunity that will benefit all of Montana."

And just this week, Senator Tester reiterated his support in a statement saying, through his spokesperson, "Because our borders are only as strong as their weakest link, Jon supports sealing up all security gaps and expects to see the work done as responsibly and efficiently as possible."

The Department of Homeland Security even told us that security concerns, not politics, drove this decision to spend on the ports.

TRENT FRAZIER, HOMELAND SECURITY, DIRECTOR OF PORT MODERNIZATION: We feel that these ports, like all of the ports of entry, are a vital part of that network of security that we establish along the borders, and that the investments that we're going to do at these ports of entry are a critical step in ensuring that we can perform our mission.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My dad, Paul.

GRIFFIN: Mark's Chabot's family has been farming this border for generations. His land is adjacent to the border crossing in Scobey.

In winter, entire days go by, he says, where you won't see a single car. And an idea to build a new border station that sees fewer than 20 cars a day at a cost of $15 million tax dollars he says could only have come from Washington.

MARK CHABOT, SCOBEY, MONTANA RESIDENT: Well, when you're spending somebody else's money, cost is no big deal, right? If I'm spending your money, what do I care? As long as you've got a big pocketbook, why do I care on what I spend it?

The accountability we need to have and the sensibility and the common sense needs to apply here.

I mean, the senators did a fine job as far as getting money for northeast Montana, absolutely great. But would it be wiser spent on something more useful to the public generally?

GRIFFIN: Scobey and nearby Whitetail would have received a temporary boost to the local economy, but not anymore. Shortly after the DHS defended the project to CNN on camera, the secretary pulled the plug, ordering a full review of how her department makes spending decisions.

Drew Griffin, CNN, Scobey, Montana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHETRY: All right. And now, to be clear, CNN tried to get comments from the two U.S. senators from Montana for two weeks before that project was put on hold, and the only response that we received you heard in the report.

HOLMES: Wow.

CHETRY: Good stuff from Drew Griffin.

HOLMES: Drew Griffin out in the middle of nowhere tracking down this money. Great piece there, Drew.

We do want to check our other top stories this morning. First an Afghan national from Colorado who's at the center of a terror investigation facing more questions from federal authorities.

CNN has learned officials think the target of the alleged plot could be New York City's subways and trains, places without tougher airport-like security.

The FBI not commenting now, but sources say they think the plot involves, quote, "real deal terrorists."

CHETRY: Police in California say that two different cadaver dogs, each working on its own, showed interest in the same spot on Phillip and Nancy Garrido's property. In just a few hours, they will check that spot with radar equipment that will let them see what's underground. The couple is accused of kidnapping Jaycee Dugard and keeping her in backyard tents and sheds for two years. Phillip Garrido is accused with fathering two children with her.

Meanwhile, police think the Garridos could be behind two other disappearances in the area.

HOLMES: And Raymond Clark, the man accused of killing Yale grad student Annie Le, won't be in court until October 6th. And according to a judge yesterday, he did not enter a plea.

Bond was set at $3 million. Clark's best friend sat down exclusively with our Larry King last night, and he says he's completely stunned by all these developments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOBBY HESLIN, RAYMOND CLARK'S BEST FRIEND: Absolute complete shock. I cannot understand the position that Ray's in right now, why he's in this position.

I mean, obviously, we do know what is going on, but it's like, it's a complete shock, because this is a dear friend of ours and dear friend of mine, who I've grown my entire life to know. And it's -- the whole country and everybody else in Branford are wondering what questions -- I mean, we want answers to all of our questions. Everybody has questions. He's being portrayed right now as, you know, being a murder suspect, and that's not the Raymond Clark who I've known my whole entire life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Another of Clark's close friends told Larry "I just can't picture him doing something like this."

We'll turn to another case now that brought strong opinions from parents, coaches and students. But now a jury in Louisville has acquitted former high school coach Jason Stinson. He was charged with reckless homicide and deliberate endangerment. The reason? One much his players on his football team, 15-year-old Max Gilpin, collapsed during a tough practice on a hot summer day last August. That teenager died three days later.

So, did the jury here make the right call in acquitting that coach? Let's bring in one of the prosecutors now on the case, Jon Heck joins us now this morning. Sir, I appreciate you being here.

Let's start with your reaction to the jury's decision. Now, do you think they didn't see it your way because there was an issue with evidence or testimony or just do you think that some people have a hard time stomaching holding a coach responsible in this way for a kid who had a tough practice on a hot day and charging and convicting that coach of homicide?

JON HECK, ONE OF THE PROSECUTING ATTORNEYS IN THE CASE AGAINST COACH DAVID STINSON: Well, obviously, they had a problem with the evidence, or hopefully, they would have convicted. But to me, we had two things here. One is we're dealing with a man who is from a tight- knit community. He was involved with that community.

He was involved with his kids and he did a lot of good with these kids. So, he had a great deal of community support going into this case. And I think the second most important factor, besides that, is the one that you just mentioned, we're dealing with football here. And I think that we accept things on a football field that we wouldn't accept in any other arena.

HOLMES: Now, on that point you make there, just kind of the culture of football.

HECK: Right.

HOLMES: Now, you said you just thought this was necessary to bring this case forward. Were you hoping to make a statement and change the culture or did you really think you had a guy on your hands who had acted criminally?

HECK: Well, you know, you shouldn't bring a case against a specific individual to try to change the way people think about anything. That's not fair to the individual defendant. No, we believe -- and really, it's not for me to make the decision, it's for a grand jury in the state of Kentucky to make the decision.

The way our process works, in order for someone to be charged with a felony, a grand jury must hear evidence first, deliberate, and then decide whether or not there is sufficient evidence to charge somebody with a felony offense, and all those steps were followed and he had two felony charges against him going into this case during the trial.

HOLMES: So, I guess, why was it necessary, in your opinion -- I understand what you're saying there about the grand jury, but you decided to put that case before them. What do you think -- what were you seeing that made you think he had stepped over a line that a lot of people just admit, this happens in practices all over this country. So, why did you think this coach stepped over the line?

HECK: Well, whether it happens in practices all over the country is -- I mean, that's a matter of -- whether it happens everywhere is a matter of opinion.

HOLMES: Well, do you think it does?

HECK: No.

HOLMES: No.

HECK: I think that this was excessive. Now, a jury has disagreed with me. So, as a matter of fact, he's not guilty of the offenses, you know, the conduct that I'm about to talk to you about.

HOLMES: Yes, sir. HECK: Nevertheless, my review of the case was that at some point during this practice, these kids are running and they couldn't stop until one of them quit the football team. That's excessive when you're dealing with children. They were showing signs of heat illness. They were vomiting, they were stumbling. The victim in this case, Max Gilpin, was a 15-year-old, a young 15-year-old.

People describe that he was turning white, he was stumbling. And the running wasn't called off until, in fact, someone quit the team. It was my opinion that when someone is dealing with children, that's wrong. That's excessive. And a grand jury agreed with me. Now, the trial jury did not, but...

HOLMES: Yes, sir. Let me ask you this question on this point, because I think I read where you played in athletics in your life, and I have as well...

HECK: Yes, sir.

HOLMES: And a lot of people know this is how it goes. It's how it goes in practice, accept it, like it or not, it's how it goes. But if this young man had not had died and you saw this practice going on, would you still feel like you are looking at a case of child abuse and that coach still need to be brought up on charges, even if a kid hadn't die? Did you still think that this was some case of child abuse?

HECK: Well, T.J., I think the best way to answer that is to look at -- I think the undisputed facts of this case, and that is a number of people, many of whom played football when they were younger, were watching this practice. Now, they were actually there to watch a girl's soccer game at the adjoining field, but the way they were running these gassers, they actually ran basically into this crowd of people.

They started complaining by e-mail and phone calls the following day while Max was still in the hospital. He wasn't dead yet. They didn't know whether or not he was going to make it but he wasn't dead yet, and that's when we started getting our first round of phone calls from people saying -- look, I've played football. I know it's tough, and this was excessive.

Now, having said that, a jury heard that evidence and has found him not guilty. So, I want to be cautious there.

HOLMES: But again, I just want to be clear -- was it abusive? I mean, would we be talking about this, if you were standing out there watching that practice and a kid had not died, would you still thought this man was committing child abuse by the way he was putting, treating these kids?

HECK: Well, the parents who were there watching the soccer game absolutely thought that, and a review of the statements, I thought that before it went to the grand jury, absolutely.

HOLMES: Well, Jon Heck, I know it's been a rough year there for all the people there in your community, and this case has ended, unfortunately, a young man has died, no doubt, but maybe coaches, will, something will come out of this and coaches will start paying a lot more attention and closely monitor those young athletes as they try to condition them out there to get to the field and win, of course. But Jon Heck, we appreciate you taking the time with us this morning.

HECK: Thanks, T.J. Have a good day.

HOLMES: All right.

CHETRY: All right. From that sad story to a very happy one relating to sports, at least one that made people chuckle if they saw it. It was the lifelong Phillies fan, the dad catching that foul ball and then handing it to his three-year-old daughter, who promptly threw it back. Well, they've been getting a ton of attention after this happened. His reaction, her reaction, warm tarts everywhere. Well, they're here. They're going to talk to us about what it's been like after that infamous throw. It's 37 minutes after the hour.

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CHETRY: It was the video that made us all say 'aww.' It was hilarious to see what happened. It all started with a dream come true for a lifelong Philadelphia Phillies fan after Phillie Jayson Werth hits a foul ball, fan Steve makes the catch, his first ever.

So, he celebrates. He's thrilled, obviously. And he hands - here we see it. He makes the catch, so excited. Everyone's cheering, fists bumping in the stands, there you go. Hands it to his daughter, Emily, who's three, and boom, she throws it right back over.

Well, his dream was thrown away, literally. And if that wasn't funny enough, dad's sweet reaction, of course, caught everyone by surprise, and everyone just absolutely loved checking it out. Well, here to talk about that endearing moment with us, and now the whole internet sensation around is the whole family.

We have Stephen Monforto, his wife, Kathleen, and daughters, Emily and Cecilia. Thanks so much for being with us this morning.

STEPHEN MONFORTO, CAUGHT FOUL BALL AT PHILLIES GAME: You're welcome.

CHETRY: So just walk us through what it was like. Do you guys go to Phillies games often or was this a rare event for you guys to take the whole family?

S. MONFORTO: I'm a season ticket holder. I go to a lot of games, usually go with a brother or with a friend. We've been to a few games together with the whole family, but not very often.

CHETRY: OK, so -- but your daughter knows how much you guys love baseball. S. MONFORTO: Yes.

CHETRY: And what was it like when you caught the foul ball?

S. MONFORTO: I was just -- I didn't think the ball was going to make it up to the upper deck. And once I realized it did, I was just thinking, don't drop it, Steve. You know, you have 40,000 fans in the stands all see me drop it. So once I caught it, turned around and celebrated, I knew I was going to give it to Emily. I just didn't expect she was going to toss it right back.

CHETRY: And so what was your first reaction when you handed it to her? And she threw it?

S. MONFORTO: My first reaction is, oh, my gosh, there goes the first foul ball I've ever caught. Who knows if I'll ever get it back. But I think that Emily was a little startled, because there was a lot of laughter and shock from the crowd, and then I just wanted to give her that big hug to let her know it was OK.

CHETRY: So she gave you that look that led you to believe it's not feeling...

S. MONFORTO: It was the wide-eyed look, like did I do something wrong, daddy? And I just wanted to let her know it was OK.

CHETRY: And Emily, what did you think when you threw the ball back? Were you doing what daddy taught you to do, throw the ball? Show us, throw it right now.

S. MONFORTO: Can you throw that ball?

CHETRY: I'll catch it. Oh, good job! There you go! We already have a future softball pitcher on our hands here. So what was it like just the fact that after this happened? Did you guys realized how many people saw it and how it became this internet sensation?

KATHLEEN MONFORTO: Absolutely not. We just thought, you know, we were just going to the Phillies game, just having a good family night and had no idea it was going to turn into what it did.

CHETRY: And so what's she been saying about it at home? This has been a whirlwind for you, guys. You've come up to New York. Everyone wants to talk to you guys. I'm sure all your friends are calling, your family.

K. MONFORTO: She just says, you know, she just thought she was playing catch with Daddy. She was like, I had the ball and then all of a sudden, I didn't have the ball anymore. So I don't think she really realizes everything. She just thought it was natural, like her and Steve will go out in the front yard and play catch and any time she calls she wants to play baseball, she calls it let's go play Phillies. So we went out and dad just gave her the ball and she immediately, gut reaction was to throw it back.

E. MONFORTO: Because I... MONFORTO: Tell her what happened. Say what you did.

CHETRY: What did you do?

E. MONFORTO: Daddy, remember, I throw it into the tree?

MONFORTO: Yes, I remember that time.

E. MONFORTO: That was fun.

MONFORTO: Very fun.

CHETRY: She threw it into a tree also? You're really good with that baseball. That's pretty impressive. And you've got your shoe off, too. There you go. I love it. It's really funny and everybody can sort of commiserate when you think about it, because your kids do things, and we were just laughing, your kids drop your blackberry in the toilet and you don't want to be too hard on them. It's an adult world. But I have to laugh because there's a lot of guys who might not have as nice a reaction. I mean were you so relieved when they caught your husband in this moment and everybody sees the nicest dad in the world?

K. MONFORTO: Yes, that is totally Steve. I think we just thought, isn't that what every father would do is just give the ball to their daughter and just be like, oh, my gosh. Those things happen. You just never know what children are going to do. So, we're just kind of shocked.

CHETRY: What about you, Steve?

MONFORTO: Yes, I wanted to make sure Emily knew it was OK. I could tell she was startled and scared -

E. MONFORTO: Daddy, look.

CHETRY: That's you. We brought something for you guys. We're going to bring it in now. Look at the Phillie Phanatic. He came to see you, too.

MONFORTO: Look who that is!

CHETRY: We got one for both of you.

K. MONFORTO: Look.

CHETRY: What do you think? Emily...

K. MONFORTO: What do you say?

MONFORTO: Say thank you.

CHETRY: You know, the Phillie Phanatic. Oh, we have another one for you, Cecilia. It's bigger than you.

MONFORTO: That's cool, huh? K. MONFORTO: Thank you.

CHETRY: As I understand it, the Phillies gave you the ball back.

MONFORTO: They did. The Phillies gave us this ball shortly afterwards. They presented us with these jerseys and a signed ball by Jayson Werth.

CHETRY: Nice. All's well that ends well. It's probably a game you guys didn't expect would be so much fun in the end.

MONFORTO: No, not at all.

CHETRY: Well, thanks for being with us and thanks for coming in and sharing your story. As I said, we all loved the video. You guys were great. Thanks very much.

MONFORTO: Thank you.

KATHLEEN MONFORTO: Thank you.

CHETRY: T.J.

HOLMES: I was just waiting for her to toss that Phanatic in your face over there.

All right. Well, stay with us, folks. It's a quarter to the top of the hour. We got a rain soaked forecast in many parts of the country, stay with us. Quick break.

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CONAN O'BRIEN, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH CONAN O'BRIEN": The guy who founded Cirque du Soleil is going to fly up to the International Space Station, and he says it's his dream to be the first clown in space. So he says he's going to wear a red nose and he's going to tickle the other astronauts. That's all true, yes. Apparently, it's also his dream to be the first man murdered in space. You don't tickle -

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CHETRY: That wouldn't go over well, would it, with the NASA scientists up there trying to do all the research?

HOLMES: Then you have to get a corner up there and it'd be a mess.

CHETRY: Yes, right.

HOLMES: Rob Marciano in Atlanta for us keeping an eye on things, and things are a bit of a mess today. Good morning to you again, sir.

ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Hey, good morning, T.J.. Good morning, Kiran. Yes, a lot of counties highlighted in this area, flash flood watches, and actually, mostly warnings. So, we've got a lot more rain on the way and we may very well see more scenes like this. This out of Rutherford County, Tennessee, just south and east of Nashville yesterday. The day before is really when the damage was done. There was a tremendous amount of rain. We just had a couple of inches yesterday, horses having a hard time, but a lot of neighborhoods cut off.

They got out there with boats and tractors to try to get people out and even threw the life preserver on. A tremendous amount of moisture here. Check out some of these numbers. They don't even include Tennessee. Florida, Arkansas, Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama -- I mean, everybody in the south in the soup, and it's really just a thick, very dense, stagnant air mass of a lot of moisture, and things will bubble up as we go through the afternoon once again today.

So, when it rains -- excuse the cliche -- it's going to pour. 74 degrees in Atlanta today. It will be 76 degrees in New York City. Let's point out some good news. Pretty much everybody from D.C.. into the northeast looks pretty good not only today, but I think the weekend looks not too shabby for you folks in the Big Apple. And that's for you, Kiran. Of course, T.J., get back here in the soup in Atlanta, the rain is waiting for you.

CHETRY: Did anything change for them, by the way? Did any of the airport delays clear up?

MARCIANO: Well, you know, they'll pile up as the day rolls along. The forecast hasn't changed.

HOLMES: Very nice. Well, thanks, happy.

CHETRY: All right. Still ahead, A.C.O.R.N. in damage control. The House now passing an amendment to cut funding for the community organizing group in the wake of this undercover video out there. Still a lot of questions about that as well. We're going to bring you up to date. 50 minutes past the hour.

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BOUDREAU: But A.C.O.R.N. tells CNN, the worker was just trying to deal with a, "bizarre and challenging situation," and that he was playing along with O'Keefe and Giles to get information, which according to A.C.O.R.N., he passed on to his cousin, who is a detective with the National City Police Department. And now this video released by an A.C.O.R.N. worker in Philadelphia. She says she reported the couple to the police.

KATHERINE CONWAY RUSSELL, ACORN EMPLOYEE: It appears Mr. O'Keefe lied to get his appointment. He was to dressed like he is on the internet and when we got suspicious about the questions he was asking at the Philadelphia A.C.O.R.N. housing office, we called the police and filed this report.

BOUDREAU: And there are other cases where A.C.O.R.N. workers said the videos didn't show the full story. This A.C.O.R.N. worker seen on one video claiming to have killed her ex-husband in self- defense.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then I just picked up the gun and said [ bleep ] you and I shot him and he died, right there.

BOUDREAU: But Teresa Kaelke tells CNN, she was just playing games. Her ex-husband's just fine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's alive and well.

BOUDREAU: And local police confirmed that.

(on camera): But coming on top of earlier tapes, which clearly show A.C.O.R.N. workers bending over backwards to help O'Keefe and Giles, questions about whether the tapes were taken legally, doctored, or even deliberately misleading seem to have been drowned out in the clamor.

Abbi Boudreau, CNN, Atlanta.

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HOLMES: Well, an investigation continues into a possible terror plot in New York City. One that authorities now say could have targeted New York City subways. That story, coming up. It's just a couple of minutes to the top of the hour.

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