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Nancy Grace
DNA Evidence Prompted Quick Arrest in Yale Murder
Aired September 18, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Live to Connecticut and the sudden disappearance of a gorgeous young Ivy League doctoral student just before she`s set to walk down the aisle, the 24-year-old beauty last spotted on grainy surveillance video walking into a Yale research building. A false fire alarm mysteriously goes off in the building. People rush out. Annie Le is never seen again.
At nearly the exact hour Le set to walk down the aisle -- wedding dress on a hanger in the closet, flowers ordered -- the girl`s body found stuffed in a two-foot wall cable space there at Yale`s research building, bloody clothes found high over investigators` heads behind ceiling tiles. In the early morning hours, police storm a Super 8 motel to arrest 24-year- old Yale lab tech Raymond Clark on murder one.
Bombshell tonight. We confirm lab tech Raymond Clark spotted frantically trying to clean his own cleaning equipment, bottles, a lab cart. Now we know Clark was allegedly trying to clean away Le`s blood. Stunning lab results reportedly place Clark and Le`s DNA both in that 24- inch wall space, her blood on his boots, his DNA on her body, waiting tonight to determine whether it`s blood or sperm.
We also confirm Clark`s favorite signature green ink pen found lodged in a crevice in the basement where Le`s body concealed. He even allegedly went back to retrieve it. When asked on a polygraph, Do you know where Le is now, the alleged control freak`s answer went off the chart.
And tonight: In a bizarre twist, did Clark have help, an alleged accomplice to hide Le`s body? And finally, the truth about who set that fire alarm. Key card swipes placing Clark at the crime scene before and after Le last seen alive, revealing he`s in and out of that lab no less than 10 times, Clark spending his workdays cleaning cages that house experimental mice.
In play tonight, text messages between Clark and his 90-pound victim. Do they reveal motive for murder? He reportedly is covered with defensive wounds, a bead from Le`s necklace found torn from her throat on the floor of the crime scene. Cause of death, Le manually strangled to death.
And tonight: Uncovered, an alleged history of stalking women, allegations from a former girlfriend claiming he forces her to have sex, then threatens her when she tries to break it off. No charges ever filed. And finally tonight, was this brutal and senseless murder all over laboratory mice cages? With a community and a university reeling, a family grieving and a young groom left at the altar with a broken heart, tonight we want justice for 24-year-old bride-to-be Annie Le.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shocking developments today. Reports emerge DNA from the lab worker accused of killing Annie Le was found in both the ceiling tiles containing the bloody clothes and the crawlspace where Le`s body was found. Not only that, but sources now tell that "The Hartford Courant" that Raymond Clark III was seen trying to hide lab cleaning equipment containing blood spatters. Clark was also reportedly observed cleaning up areas that Annie Le was in the day of her murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Raymond Clark, the man now charged of Yale graduate student Annie Le in what police say is a place of, quote, "workplace violence".
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Apparently, he was very concerned about how people kept their mice, their cages. There have been some reports that he got very upset when people wouldn`t wear plastic booties into the lab or when people wouldn`t keep their cages clean.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say he strangled this innocent bride-to-be, stuffed her body in a wall where it was found on what should have been her wedding day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A report that investigators traced Clark and Le`s movements through computerized swipe cards inside the lab.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "The Hartford Courant" reports those records indicate Clark was the last to see Le alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And special guest tonight -- she skydives, she NASCARs, and she writes. Talk morning show host HLN`s Robin Meade live tonight with her new book.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBIN MEADE, HLN HOST: What`s with your penchant for jumping still?
GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It still feels good.
(LAUGHTER)
MEADE: You look really good!
Nobody told me how to get out.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All this stuff...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Clutter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So when they are ready...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Still clutter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... to fix (ph) the Robin Meade museum, I`m the girl.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. At almost the exact hour a gorgeous young Ivy League grad student, Annie Le, set to walk down the aisle -- wedding dress on the hanger in the closet, flowers ordered -- the girl`s body found stuffed in a wall at Yale University`s research building. Tonight, stunning details inside the hunt for a killer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was not a street crime. It was not a domestic crime. It was a workplace crime.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police looking into whether Clark`s attitude may have led to a deadly confrontation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Annie Le was strangled to death in the lab where she worked. Clark, who also worked there, is charged with doing it and then trying to hide her body behind a wall in the lab`s basement.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports surface that DNA from accused murderer Raymond Clark III was found in both the ceiling and the tiny crawlspace where Le`s body was uncovered Sunday. According to reports, police observed Clark trying to hide lab cleaning equipment containing blood spatters. A law enforcement official told "The Hartford Courant" that Clark was spotted cleaning up areas Le was in shortly before she was reported missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Co-workers tell police he was a control freak. He`s also territorial when it came to the lab and the mice that he took care of.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s being reported that he, who maintained the cages and animals, was upset at her, Annie Le, because she was leaving her cage in disorder or dirty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s being reported that there was a text message the morning of the day she went missing asking her to meet with him at the lab.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Arrested and brought into court, facing murder a charge at just 24, the police chief makes it clear the lab where they both worked is where the violence was born.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Thomas Kaplan, editor-in-chief with "The Yale Daily News." What can you tell us about the possibility that there was an accomplice?
THOMAS KAPLAN, "YALE DAILY NEWS": Well, that`s what some reports have indicated today. Now, we did hear from police yesterday. They said they have no additional suspects, and they indicated that they don`t really anticipate to have any further suspects. So the police have kind of put cold water on that, but there have been some reports today. So we don`t really know right now, Nancy.
GRACE: Now, what I want to talk about very quickly is the DNA result. Out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, In Session. I`m understanding that he was seen frantically trying to clean his own cleaning equipment. He was responsible for cleaning the experimental mouse cages and other cleaning in and around the research area. He was the lab technician. I understand that her DNA is on his cleaning equipment and what he was trying to clean away was her blood?
JEAN CASAREZ, IN SESSION: It`s really interlocking today, surfacing that when investigators realized that Annie Le was missing and they went to the lab building, and they were talking to people that routinely were at the lab building, and at least one investigator noticed someone seemed to be trying to take cleaning equipment and put it away. It was later found there was blood spatter on that cleaning equipment, and that was Raymond Clark.
GRACE: What about the rest? Everyone, you`re seeing photos of suspect Raymond Clark from MySpace. Jean Casarez, what can you tell me about other reported DNA results?
CASAREZ: Well, in the ceiling tile, we heard originally there was bloody clothes. Now we`re hearing there was DNA of Annie Le and DNA of Raymond Clark. And also in that crawlspace, in the closet where her body was found, there was DNA of Raymond Clark, especially a green pen that he adored, apparently. He used to sign with it every day, sign into work. It was his green pen. Everyone knew he always used it.
GRACE: And to Rupa Mikkilineni, our producer there at the police station in New Haven. Rupa, about these allegations that the entire motive may have been over mice cages?
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. There are reports out there that are coming from other media sources that there had been an e-mail chain prior to this week in the past between them about her level of taking care of the animals, the mice in the cages. Then, most recently, that morning that she approached (ph) -- she went over to the Amistad laboratory building, she received a text message supposedly from him, asking him -- asking her to come over and meet him to talk about this.
GRACE: To Al Jones, reporter with 1010 WINS. He was in court when he appeared in court. He is there at the police station, joining us tonight. Al, I understand that immediately after this story happened, after this, really, kidnap and murder went down, Yale issues a policy about zero tolerance in -- of harassment in the workplace. Now I`m hearing reports that for a long time, this guy`s been a, quote, "control freak," driving everybody crazy. And now we find out about repeated text messages to the 90-pound victim about how she cleaned the mice cages?
AL JONES, 1010 WINS RADIO: Yes. We`re hearing a little bit of conflicting information on that. You have the story from investigators, who paint Raymond Clark as someone who guarded his turf very jealously, that that basement lab area was his area and that he felt like he was in control of it, he became very irritated when researchers would leave a mess (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: OK. Hold on. Hold on. Al -- Al, I`m having a really hard time hearing you. Let me go quickly to Jean Casarez. Jean, do you know anything about this alleged motive?
CASAREZ: Well, I think they`re saying now that they are not the sure of the motive. But if you look at the text messages, which I am sure are part of the search warrant that are still sealed, there are allegations that he was upset at her because she, as a laboratory scientist, was not keeping the area as clean as it should have. That was Raymond Clark`s duty. And there may have been issues between the two of them on his part, Raymond Clark`s, in regard to Annie Le.
GRACE: Everyone, you are seeing video, you are seeing raw footage of him in court, still dressed in his preppy khaki pants and his polo shirt.
To you, Sheryl McCollum, crime analyst. What do you think police have against him?
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST: They`re stacking up some beautiful pieces, Nancy. First of all, he failed the polygraph. He hid bloody clothes. He has got his DNA in two separate places that match he and the victim.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With his head bowed, ankles in shackles, 24- year-old Raymond Clark III was brought before a judge and charged with the strangling murder of Yale graduate student Annie Le.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The body of Annie Le, his alleged victim, described as a brilliant student, was found inside a wall of the Yale medical school building on Sunday on what would have been her wedding day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of relationship did Raymond Clark III have with the victim, Annie Le?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The police chief did say about the relationship was that it was not a romantic relationship, calling it...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... an issue of workplace violence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was a lab technician who cleaned cages for laboratory mice that were used in that lab, she a Ph.D. student who did research in that lab.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Apparently, he was very concerned about how people kept their mice, their cages. There have been some reports that he got very upset when people wouldn`t wear plastic booties into the lab or when people wouldn`t keep their cages clean. And there`s some thought that maybe that contributed here to why he might have had a problem with Annie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I want to go straight back to Thomas Kaplan, editor-in-chief, "Yale Daily News," who broke the story of the missing student. Thomas, what can you tell me, have we gotten to the truth finally about who set off that fire alarm?
KAPLAN: No, Nancy, unfortunately, no news there tonight. There have been some reports addressing that maybe Raymond Clark did set off the alarm to give him an excuse to leave the building after he killed Annie Le, allegedly, but no official information from police on what happened there.
GRACE: What about it, Rupa? What do we know?
MIKKILINENI: Nancy, there`s been a lot of speculation from various people and various law enforcement agencies. What I`ve been told by Chief Lewis with the New Haven Police Department is that they are still unsure whether he tripped that alarm on purpose. But I believe that the Connecticut State Police is still investigating this.
GRACE: Well, according to "The Daily News," they have a source inside the police department that states police now believe Raymond Clark tripped the fire alarm. Now, that would suggest to me -- let`s unleash the lawyers, Anne Bremner, high-profile lawyer out of Seattle, and Christopher Amolsch, defense attorney out of Washington, D.C.
Anne Bremner, if it can be proved that he tripped the fire alarm, there goes all of his claim for insanity, his claim for crime of passion in the heat of a moment, in the middle of an argument, because he is laboriously and methodically covering his tracks.
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s a great argument, Nancy. You know, when I listened to your intro, I felt like, as a defense attorney, if I was sitting in court, I`d be just thinking, Oh, case over. But the thing is, you know, this is so weird. Is this, you know, of mice and murder? He`s worried about the mice cages? You know, he`s upset to the point of wanting to kill somebody?
I think in this case, there`s more to be seen in terms of what`s going on in his noggin because it`s too bizarre. It`ll go down in the annals of crime as one of the weirdest motives, if, indeed, this is the motive, for homicide. And therefore, I think there could be some kind of a mental defense.
GRACE: OK. I think that was you answering that question by claiming...
BREMNER: It was...
GRACE: ... that even though he methodically hid body, was seen cleaning his own cleaning equipment that was spattered with her blood, and he set off a false fire alarm to evacuate the building, according to "The Daily News," and hide body, that he`s still crazy.
Now, you know what? Christopher Amolsch, if you can pull all that off in the middle of Yale University, in a building that is high-tech security, you`re not crazy.
CHRISTOPHER AMOLSCH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think there`s a difference between -- obviously, between being insane as a defense and having mental issues, which is a mitigation as it relates to sentence. I mean, you`re probably not going to be able to find him not guilty based on that, but you could probably find him guilty of something less than first- degree murder and maybe spare him, you know, a life in prison.
GRACE: Based on what? You said something less than murder one based on that. What is that, sir?
AMOLSCH: Well, what you`re pointing at is all the things that he did afterwards, which really doesn`t go to what his state of mind was when he committed the crime.
GRACE: It`s within the same hour!
AMOLSCH: Well...
GRACE: It`s not like he went insane and then got well.
AMOLSCH: Well, we don`t know actually when she was killed. But what we do know is that afterwards...
GRACE: Christopher...
AMOLSCH: ... he took...
GRACE: Christopher...
AMOLSCH: ... that he took steps...
GRACE: Christopher...
AMOLSCH: ... to try to hide his crime...
GRACE: Uh-uh. Uh-uh. Uh-uh.
AMOLSCH: ... assuming he did it. But that doesn`t mean at the time that he did it, he wasn`t operating under some sort of mental deficiency.
GRACE: I just can`t let you get away with that, Christopher Amolsch, because we know for a fact that she was murdered and hidden within 10:00 to 11:00, 11:00 to 12:00, 12:00 to 1:00, three hours, within a three-hour space, a quarter of one, less than three hours. So he goes crazy, then he gets well in two hours and 45 minutes?
AMOLSCH: Well, nobody`s saying that he`s getting well. But I mean, the difference between something that you do now and three hours later, when you realize the horrible mistake you made, absolutely goes to the level of culpability.
GRACE: Could you put Amolsch back on the screen please immediately? Did you say "mistake," his horrible mistake, like, Oops?
AMOLSCH: No. No, I didn`t -- I didn`t say that. What I said...
GRACE: You did say "mistake."
AMOLSCH: Well, I don`t think that`s what I said. But what I`ll say...
GRACE: Yes, you did. You said "horrible mistake."
(CROSSTALK)
AMOLSCH: I`ll say what I said again. What he did was, after -- well, people can be guilty, Nancy, while making bad choices, and I think that`s what happened in this case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Raymond Clark allegedly had a propensity for violence. According to a 2003 police report, cops were called to the school in the wake of a dispute with his then girlfriend. Quote, "She stated that she had been having a sexual relationship with him and that at one time, he did force her to have sex with him." Now, no charges were ever filed. The relationship continued afterwards.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Forensic evidence, surveillance video and more than 150 interviews with people led to the arrest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As far as we know, there were no witnesses to this crime. So if he`s the right guy, we`ll be looking at a lot of scientific evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are two key pieces of evidence that could definitively link Clark to the scene and possibly to the crime itself.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The magnetic swipe card shows that he swiped at least 10 times in the hour surrounding her death.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The magnetic swipe card is one of the ways that police zeroed in on him, that they followed the computerized swipes of his ID card and her ID card.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Sheryl McCollum, a cold case expert, crime scene analyst, has brought up an excellent point. Out to you, Al Jones with 1010 WINS. He has alleged defensive wounds, scratches, bruises, abrasions on his chest, his back, arms, face, right ear. Now, this little girl, this woman, 90 pounds, not even 5 feet, unless he tried to sexually molest her, what was he doing without a shirt on? How could she in any configuration get back to scratch his back or chest if he had his shirt on? He`s 5-9 and weighs about 190 pounds.
JONES: Well, Nancy, the time that we got the best look at him, we could not tell if he had any scratches on his chest or his arm. This was when he was walked into court with leg shackles. We could see that he had tattoos on his arms. He was wearing a short-sleeved shirt. And he did have a slight bruise under his left eye. But as far as scratches on his chest, his neck, his arms, we couldn`t make that out in court.
GRACE: Let`s go to self-defense trainer Megan Gilroy (ph). She`s going to give us a quick demonstration. But Megan, he`s got scratches, abrasions, bruises on his chest, the skin on his chest and back, that has been reported. What do you believe about these so-called defensive wounds?
PHILIP MESSINA, SELF-DEFENSE EXPERT: Well, I believe that it probably signifies that at some point in the struggle, he was straddling her. And because she had relatively short arms, she probably could not reach his eyes but could reach areas like the chest, the arms and the back, and possibly even as high as the nose or the bottom of the ear.
GRACE: But Philip Messina -- Philip Messina, he had have his shirt off for her to scratch his back and chest that way.
MESSINA: That`s why I say at some point. I believe there was probably things that happened before that, but at some point, he was maybe attempting to do something sexual or just attempting to finish the job. But at some point, in order for him to have scratches on the chest, the arms, and the back especially, those are areas that one could reach if someone was sitting on top of you and you couldn`t reach their eyes or their face.
GRACE: We`ll be back with Philip Messina, president of the Modern Warrior Defense Tactics Institute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Clark has been a lab technician at Yale since December 2004. Nothing in the history of his employment here gave any indication that his involvement in such a crime might be possible.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The 24-year-old Le was strangled to death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her body was found in the building she was last seen entering.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stuffed in a two-foot wall cable space.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say that this arrest warrant has been sealed, and because of that, they did not speak about the motive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Apparently he had certain standards and he was concerned that she wasn`t taking good enough -- clean enough care of the animals.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Based on what we`ve heard so far, his issues of control. If she confronted him, or criticized him in some way, or even this e-mail exchange where he -- she wasn`t doing things the way that he wanted her to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a rage there. There is a very controlling and absolutely from everything that we`ve learned about him, there`s definitely, you can see it. He`s definitely very focused.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR, NANCY GRACE: Joining us, right now, is renowned forensic scientist, world renowned, distinguished professor at University of New Haven, Doctor Henry Lee.
Henry, thank you for being with us. My first question is --
DR. HENRY LEE, FORENSIC SCIENTIST, UNIV. OF NEW HAVEN: Thank you, Nancy.
GRACE: If Clark did try to clean up, how could you tell? How could you tell by looking at the DNA, by looking at the blood markings, that he was actually trying to clean up? How do you know the difference between a cleanup and blood spatter?
LEE: OK, the blood spatter usually have defined characteristics, have shape and patterns. Cleanup usually considered as a smudge. If you use water or cleaning solution, now it become a diluted blood stain. We as experienced forensic scientists easily can to tell.
The thing that I don`t understand, in your reports say police officers saw him clean his cleaning bottles. If the police officer saw him cleaning, should right away stop him, seize the evidence. And the blood spatter, which of course, which we can use enhanced imaging to restore the pattern to determine that`s a drop or a medium-velocity impact spatter, even the medium allows the impact spatter, then it has to have another type of a traumatic force to cause some bleeding.
GRACE: Right. So, Doctor Lee , my simple rudimentary interpretation of what you said is, with blood spatter, now a theory is emerging that he struck her before the strangulation. That could explain some of the blood. You would see, as if you had paint on your hand, and did like that on the wall.
LEE: Yes.
GRACE: As compared to cleaning it. You would see a smudge mark where --
LEE: Right.
GRACE: OK. I got it. And very quickly, Doctor Henry Lee , can you get rid of DNA with, for instance, a cleaning solution?
LEE: Yes, in fact, yes. UV light can destroy some DNA evidence and bleach solution can destroy some evidence. However, what this case so important is his clothing, boots, found her DNA.
GRACE: Exactly.
LEE: Or some of her clothing found his DNA, depends on the outer layer or inner layer of clothing. The most inner layer clothing, if found, his DNA become even more important.
GRACE: To a neighbor of Raymond Clark`s, Ann Marie Goodwin, a special guest joining us tonight from Hamden (ph), Connecticut.
Ms. Goodwin, thank you for being with us.
ANNMARIE GOODWIN, CLARK`S NEIGHBOR: Thanks for having me.
GRACE: What was your impression of him? How stunned were you when you heard this news?
GOODWIN: I was shocked, but knowing him like I did, which wasn`t that well, I believe that he could have done it.
GRACE: Why do you say that?
GOODWIN: Just because he seemed like the type of person that could snap at any minute.
GRACE: Has it ever been reported that he had a controlling personality, a control freak?
GOODWIN: Yeah, I`ve said that. I said, I know him to be controlling with his girlfriend.
GRACE: In what way?
GOODWIN: Just bossing her around, telling her to, come on, hurry up, like if he dropped his keys, I`ve seen him drop his keys, she`d bend down to get them. She always walked behind him. That type of thing.
GRACE: Huh. And you personally observed that?
GOODWIN: Yeah. They had to walk by my door twice a day, coming in, coming out, every time they left their house.
GRACE: And what exactly would he say and do?
GOODWIN: He was just a very negative person. Every time -- I`ve never seen him say a positive thing. He wouldn`t stop to say hello to you. He yelled at my son one time.
GRACE: About what?
GOODWIN: Trash being in the hallway.
GRACE: How old is your son?
GOODWIN: I have three sons. The son that he yelled at, at the time, was 16.
GRACE: Huh. Now, when you first learned that he had been charged with murder, what was your initial reaction?
GOODWIN: I knew that guy was a weirdo.
GRACE: Well, that says it in a nutshell, Ms. Goodwin. I want to ask you, an evidentiary question. Did he, in fact, live with pets?
GOODWIN: Yes. In fact, he had two pit bulls that he left locked upstairs in like -- you know those metal dog cages? He used to leave them locked up in the summer months, all day long, barking and yelping.
GRACE: Well, I heard reports that he had three cats.
GOODWIN: I know. My son Taylor said that. And to this day he swears he had cats. I never seen any cats. Will I`m not saying he didn`t have cats.
GRACE: Well, you know what, if he doesn`t have a cat, he better get one. Because he told police that all those defensive wounds on him were because of his cat.
Everybody, you`re seeing photos of suspect Raymond Clark, from MySpace. We`re speaking with a special guest joining us tonight, Ann Marie Goodwin, a neighbor of Raymond Clark`s.
To Belisa Vranich, psychologist joining us from New York.
What is your take on it?
BELISA VRANICH, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I have been on the edge of my seat, Nancy, thank you. I have to disagree that this has anything to do with mice or clean booties or control. We`re talking about a really disturbed, twisted individual who has a history of misogynistic tick behavior. So, my focus is completely different, as a psychologist.
GRACE: What would you say the motive is?
VRANICH: I would say he has a history of hating women. And in this case he called her in to be able to hurt her and possibly kill her. So this does not have anything to do with mice and doesn`t have anything to do with control. It has to do with anger and someone who has a really twisted, twisted, disturbed personality.
GRACE: To Al Jones, with 1010 Wins (ph), what can you tell me about what green signature ink pen? And how his favorite pen plays into a murder investigation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, Nancy, investigators believe that one of the ways that Raymond Clark tried to distinguish his work from that of other lab techs was to use green ink. He used a green pen to sign in and out of the log each day.
Now, "The Daily News" is reporting that a green pen was found in a crevice in the lab room where Annie Le `s body was. In a twist from a MacGyver plot, the day after she was reported missing, the day after she was murdered, police noticed that Clark was walking around the room and had a backpack. They looked in the backpack, and what they found were fishing hooks, wire, and bubble gum. Obviously the equipment you`d need to retrieve a pen out of a crevice.
OK. I`m just trying to soak all that in, Al Jones.
Sheryl McCollum (ph), you and I have handled a lot of cases together. Why, why do they always go back to the scene? There could have been a million ways he could have explained away that pen. He was rightfully in the basement on many occasions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely.
GRACE: But he had to go back with a fish hook and bubble gum?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah. It is mind boggling, Nancy, that he would go to that much trouble to hide bloody clothes in the ceiling, hide her in the wall, but Lord knows we`ve got to go back and get that pen.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBIN MEADE, HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Does anything look familiar to you? Yeah. I mean, do you recognize anybody around here? Do you know --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
MEADE: No?
Very pretty. Yeah.
Come on. Everybody needs a little sparkle even when you`re working on Habitat for Humanity houses. Why not?
I`m just doing my job. Thank you so much of. Nice to meet you. Thank you for the job that you do. This is one of the makeup artists that transformed me from Jabba, The Hut, in the morning to anchorwoman.
So lonely!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Forget about my book. Let`s talk about hers. With me, my friend and colleague Robin Meade.
Will you just stop looking beautiful for just one minute?
MEADE: Nancy!
GRACE: I demanded that they ruin your lighting but apparently it`s impossible.
MEADE: You`re such a doll. Thank you.
GRACE: This is great. Your book, "Morning Sunshine: How to Radiate Confidence and Feel It Too." It was very hard for me to believe, and having been a trained observer since I was in the courtroom many, many years ago, that you have ever had a confidence problem, much less one so severe that you have had panic attacks on air, which I for one have never noticed, and the twins and I watch you every morning.
MEADE: Thanks.
GRACE: Never seen any confidence problem. But they were so severe that you sought help and have written this book.
MEADE: Yeah. This was about 10 years ago, so it`s before I came to HLN. For me, my confidence issues were not about appearances. I think a lot of people think, well, if you look a certain way, then you must not have confidence problems, but for me it was.
GRACE: Are you suggesting that you`re beautiful?
MEADE: No, not at all!
GRACE: OK.
MEADE: Nancy! No, but I think most people --
GRACE: Because you are, OK?
MEADE: Thank you, sweetheart.
GRACE: But beyond that --
MEADE: Oh, honey, you should see this face before the makeup people get ahold of it. See, you`re not hear at 10 in the morning.
GRACE: So it`s not about looks.
MEADE: For me it was about whether you find me likeable or not, whether the viewers find me likeable or not. This is when I worked in Chicago.
GRACE: So you wanted to be liked?
MEADE: I wanted to be liked.
GRACE: See, I don`t have that problem.
MEADE: You know what, and therefore, people like you.
GRACE: No. Actually, a lot of them hate me. But what I thought was, the more you try to please everybody, every time you change something about yourself, you lose a little bit of yourself.
MEADE: Bingo! That`s what happened to me. That`s what this book is about.
So for me, you know, coming up through the ranks of broadcasting, pretty quickly, you go through you a lot of different bosses. But this "need to be liked" started when I was a child. That was my power. That was my popularity in school, right? So do you like me? If you don`t like me, let me make you like me. But along the way, you lose little authentic pieces of yourself because you`re filling somebody else`s prescription of what perfection is. So on the air it manifested in panic attacks on live TV about 10 years ago.
GRACE: And would the viewers actually know you were having a panic attack?
MEADE: I couldn`t breathe so it`s a little bit hard to deliver the news when you can`t talk! So I don`t know if they knew what it was, but I know that they probably thought, what is up with her?
GRACE: Robin, how did you overcome that, and become what you are now? Because there are so many people that have not only that problem but other problems that they have to surmount in order to survive and reach their dreams. So many dreams are cast aside, or forgotten, or derailed because of various problems. But you grabbed yours, grabbed the bull by the horns, and you wrestled.
MEADE: Well, for about two years I wanted to leave my job and I wanted to leave this career.
GRACE: I read that. Where you said you gave up.
MEADE: I really did. And my husband was --
GRACE: On page 68.
MEADE: Thank you for reading it.
My husband was the one who said, if you really want to quit -- this is me when I worked in Miami --that is me in Chicago just about the time I was having panic attacks. So, you know, on the outside, that`s me reporting at the `96 Olympics, here in Atlanta. On the outside I was happy, smiley.
Those are my parents.
You know, on the inside I was, I want to quit my job. My husband said, if you want to, fine. But I really think there`s something up internally. I don`t think this is the Robin that I married, basically. So I really had to find out, what is the deal? And come to an understanding where my opinion of myself is just as important as other people`s opinion of me. And that is full circle for a lot of people to come at, because we`re people pleasers a lot of us. That`s where the problem came in.
GRACE: Well, on to page 75, when the twins were born, I promised my family I would give up cursing. But for you, I`m going to make an exception. You state that you released your inner bitch. Explain.
MEADE: Can I say that on your show, Nancy?
GRACE: Yes. A lot worse has been said on this show, Robin Meade.
(LAUGHTER)
MEADE: How many people - women especially, for some reason we think being nice is the end all-be all. What is nice? I was nice to a fault. I was somebody`s doormat. I would let people walk on me because I wanted them to like me. Through talking with a chiropractor --
GRACE: You, a doormat?
MEADE: I was. I had no backbone.
(CROSS TALK)
GRACE: Don`t you think everybody, even me, wants to be liked, but at a certain point you can`t let that desire stand in the way of what is right.
MEADE: Being yourself.
GRACE: What is right?
MEADE: Yes.
GRACE: And saying what`s right and speaking the truth?
MEADE: It took me a while to come to that. So, yeah, so releasing -- I always say, let`s go on a bitch recognition campaign. For me, it was that, I now recognized, you know what? There is a part of me that is a "bee-otch". But before would not recognize that part and kind of put that a way and hide that from the world.
GRACE: Don` say that, Robin. I`ve got to disagree it. I see that as you being forceful and believing in something. And that in no way equals bitch. I`ve got to say this. I`m so knocked out by Robin`s book "Morning Sunshine." And she overcame a hurdle and is now beautiful and successful -- and a friend. Thank you for being with us.
MEADE: Nancy, thank you so much. I appreciate it.
GRACE: So run, run, rush -- "Morning Sunshine".
MEADE: For anyone who has self-doubts, and who doesn`t every now and then. Except for Nancy.
GRACE: Everyone has to go to break, a very special happy birthday to beautiful Ella Stokes, Jacksonville, Florida. At 100, she inspires us. Born on a farm in Macon, Georgia, she walked three miles everyday on a clay road to elementary school. She met her husband, W.H. Stokes, at a little United Methodist church. He was a lifelong railroad man and together they had three sons. A dedicated member of the Eastern Star, her joy: Providing a loving home for her family. And oh, what a cook! Happy birthday, Aunt Ella.
And happy birthday to California friend Simon! He`s not just celebrating his birthday today, but is now an uncle for the second time of a new baby boy Austin, just born in Dublin.
Dear Simon, happy birthday.
And our thoughts and prayers for Lieutenant Colonel Jeffrey Henderson GS13, Glen Balou (ph), and soldiers from the 244th. They are in Iraq and Afghanistan on a special mission. Tonight their message: Command Sergeant Major Glen Bowen sends his love to his wife, Vill (ph), daughters, Glenda, T.C. and Sierra (ph). Major Matt Jutson (ph)says hello, and I miss you to daughters Stacy and Jamie. Colonel Al Fashi (ph) sends his love to wife, Terri. Balou`s (ph) wife, Molly, and daughter Emily also waiting for his safe return.
Friends, hurry home. And now CNN Heroes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN "Heroes."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m a single mom. Not having a car, I have to take three busses every morning. I also depend on a friend of mine to get my kids to day care, because of the way the busses run, I`m unable to do it and get to work on time.
SUSAN JACOBS, CNN HERO, COMMUNITY CRUSADER: I know what it`s like to have the fear of losing my job because I can`t get to work. I was hitchhiking. That didn`t last long because of the kindness actually of a stranger. He said, I`ll let you use one of my vehicles. He was put in my path to help me move forward and made me realize I could make it.
I`m Susan Jacobs and I provide working wheels to keep families working.
This is Susan with Wheels to Success.
Our goal is to try to step in to work with employers so that before they lay someone off, hopefully we have a solution.
The Cavalier is done, too?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
JACOBS: We started taking donated cars and doing repairs. Our recipients to pay a monthly payment, for a year, based on sliding scale. And also, give three volunteer hours a month back to the organization.
Jessica?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just wanted to tell you, thank you so much.
JACOBS: You`re so welcome.
Receiving a car is more than just a car. People literally see how their life`s going to change.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is awesome. I got my own car.
JACOBS: I love what I do. My life has made a difference.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories, and more important, the people who touched our lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO MONTAGE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An arrest warrant was signed, by the Honorable Judge Fisher (ph), charging Clark for the murder in death of Annie Le.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news: Police have arrested a lab technician in the killing of Yale grad student Annie Le.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Raymond Clark`s bond was set at $3 million.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Clark, I`ve read you your rights downstairs earlier in the presence of your attorneys and you understood those rights?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
GRACE: Police refer to it as workplace violence. I don`t know what that means. Because it is pretty rare that you manually strangle your 90- pound co-worker to death, and stuff her body in the wall.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A former candidate for governor of Kentucky has been arrested for allegedly murdering his ex-fiance. Kentucky lawmaker Steve Nunn`s (ph) ex-girlfriend, Amanda Ross, was found shot to death outside her own home.
GRACE: I`m stunned that there had been so many complaints, by her, about this suspect, and it wreaks -wreaks - of political favoritism. And now she`s dead!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Details emerge in the case of a missing Florida girl Haley Cummings (ph). The brother of stepmom/babysitter, Misty Crofton (ph) has been arrested for theft.
Tommy Crofton (ph) was arrested Tuesday, accused of stealing a neighbor`s handgun.
GRACE: Do you believe, or did they take Amanda custody on this argument over a pistol, in order to try to talk about Haley`s disappearance?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, they have wanted anyone, Nancy, close to the family, to tell them what they know about Misty, about anything related to the crime. So, I do.
(END VIDEO MONTAGE)
GRAVE: Let`s stop and remember Army Captain Adam Snyder, 26, Fort Pierce, Florida, killed, Iraq. A West Point grad on a second tour, remembered as a spark of light in the darkness. Cared about others, a bone marrow donor, volunteer at Habitat for Humanity. Active in community theater, dreamed of moving to California and becoming an actor. Leaves behind parents, Fran and Joseph, 15-year-old brother, Evan. Adam Snyder, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, especially you, for being with us. A special good night from the New York Control Room, tonight. Good night, Bret, Norm. And good night from award-winning Hollywood superstar, friend of the show, Victoria Rowell -Drucilla, from "The Young and the Restless"; her step-daughter, Olivia. Victoria, a national advocate for foster care and adoption with KC Family Services. And "New York Times" best-selling author of "The Women Who Raised Me".
And good night to our beloved Shannon, who runs the floor at CNN. She`s going across the hall to Court TV.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp, Eastern. Until then, good night, friends.
END
