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FBI Questions Afghan Man; White House Health Care Push; Values Voter Summit; Health Reform and Illegal Immigrants

Aired September 19, 2009 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everybody. From the CNN Center, you are in the CNN NEWSROOM. It is Saturday, September 19th. Good morning, I'm Betty Nguyen.

T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: And hello to you all, I'm T.J. Holmes. 11:00 here in Atlanta, Georgia, where we sit, 8 a.m. out on the West Coast. Wherever you are, thank you for being here with us.

We want to begin in Denver. A developing story there where a young Afghan man is facing a fourth day of questions from the FBI. The focus here, an alleged plot to attack a train hub, perhaps New York's Grand Central terminal.

CNN's homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve in Denver for us now. Jeanne, what can you tell us? I guess a lot of questions people have, they're hearing details about this man, Najibullah Zazi with ties to al Qaeda yet he hasn't been arrested.

So tell us, what is happening with him?

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: well, Najibullah Zazi will be undergoing a fourth day of questioning here by the FBI, even as we're getting different versions of what exactly has transpired so far. An administration official who is familiar with the matter says that Zazi has admitted to ties with al Qaeda, but Zazi's attorney says that isn't so. Arthur Folsom told CNN, "No, he did not admit to having ties to al Qaeda." And Folsom added, "Zazi did not attend an al Qaeda training camp." Reports of that have been circulating.

Now he was not under arrest last night. He was allowed to go home and sleep in his own home where his attorney said he was resting comfortably. In addition, two sources are now telling CNN, two sources familiar with the investigation, that Zazi was carrying when we went to New York last week video of Grand Central Station in New York. That contributed to this fear that a plot against transit systems might be under way.

But an administration -- excuse me -- the attorney general, Eric Holder, spoke yesterday. He said that he did not believe there was any imminent threat at this point in time even though he said the FBI was working this case around the clock in New York, in Denver and also he said in other cities around the country. T.J.?

HOLMES: Well help us understand a little bit. A lot to kind of work through here because we're hearing different things from both sides. Is there a possibility that they think an arrest will come out of this, or are they just making sure they are checking this out thoroughly? Because some of the sources telling us he's admitting ties to al Qaeda. That sounds certainly serious. His side coming out saying no he did not. So I guess what is the FBI telling us as guidance of exactly how serious of a threat -- they were calling him real-deal terrorist. Where are we?

MESERVE: Well let me try and deconstruct this. First let me tell you, the FBI is saying virtually nothing at the instructions of Director Mueller, a cone of silence has descended over that entire bureaucracy.

So, we're not getting much in the way of clarification from them. The administration official who was familiar with the matter did indicate to me that the government was contemplating what charges it might be able to bring against Zazi. A plea deal is not out of the question. What we may be seeing here -- and I'm not a lawyer, so don't hold me to this. What we may be seeing here is some of the choreography. We don't know exactly what the state of play in these negotiations, in these talks, in this exploration of charges between the FBI and Zazi and his lawyer.

So, what we may be seeing is a reflection of that. We hope to get some clarity today. Zazi's lawyer indicated he'd be talking to us a bit later or issuing some kind of statement which might give a little bit of clarity to this, which we certainly do not have right now.

HOLMES: Well, we appreciate that. Thank you so much for breaking that down. Americans out there hearing a lot of stuff about threats at train stations, all this stuff, so we just want to make sure we're giving it to them straight. We appreciate you so much this morning. Thanks so much, Jeanne.

NGUYEN: Yes, that was good to clear that up because earlier there were reports that he did have ties to al Qaeda, now saying that is not factually correct. All right, well we'll continue to follow that investigation. But also this one as well, Germany has bumped up its terror alert level this weekend. An al Qaeda video threatened attacks after this month's national election there. And a speaker warns German voters to support candidates who favor pulling German troops from Afghanistan. The man tells Muslims in Germany to stay out of public areas during the first two weeks after the election.

HOLMES: Well seven, count them, seven ex-CIA directors are calling on President Obama to put a stop to a Justice Department probe. The investigation focuses on possible abuse by CIA interrogators who questioned terror suspects. The former spy chiefs say the investigation could have a chilling effect and discourage aggressive intelligence work. The directors who signed the letters were appointed by Republican and Democratic presidents dating back to the Nixon era.

NGUYEN: The First Lady joining the president this week on a media blitz to push health care reform. This after Senator Max Baucus released his version of a compromise bill. White House correspondent Dan Lothian joins us now with details. And Dan, you know, the president has really beefed up his effort to keep the momentum going on this health care issue.

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: He really has because as the White House believes that there are a lot of people out there who have gotten misinformation and they believe that the president can clear things up.

So you saw on Thursday at the University of Maryland, the president being very forceful, getting young people fired up, telling them what health care reform will mean, not only to them but also their families. And then just yesterday, as you pointed out, the First Lady jumped into the fray in a big way at an event for the White House Council for Women and Girls. The First Lady took on the fight for health care reform and framing it as something that will be equal to women's equality.

Women, she pointed out, bear the brunt of the burden for making some of the health care decisions in a family, whether it's taking their kids to the doctor, taking care of their spouses. But they are often the ones she pointed out who don't have a lot of the tests they need to take covered by their insurance companies. So, the First Lady really turning to women, pushing hard for health care reform.

And then, of course, the president sitting down yesterday to tape five different Sunday talk show interviews. Again, this is all part of that push where he'll deal on a number of different issues but health care reform obviously one of them and then capping off this latest push. On Monday night, the president will be sitting down to chat things up with David Letterman, Betty.

NGUYEN: Oh, OK. Let me ask you this. Any chance that this overexposure that some may be calling it will backfire?

LOTHIAN: You know, that is a question that has been asked time and time again. And what the White House will say, in fact, Robert Gibbs pointed out yesterday that there was a time when reporters were asking the question of when is the president going to get more involved? When is the president going to get out there and talk and push very hard for health care reform?

And he says now the questions are, is there the danger of overexposure. What the White House believes is that, again, there's still a lot that needs to be cleared up and they think that the president in this case, also, now, the first lady are the best spokespeople for health care reform and that's the reason they're out there. They have no concern at all about overexposure.

NGUYEN: All right, some people say no publicity is bad publicity. Right?

LOTHIAN: That's right.

NGUYEN: Get out there when you can. All right Dan Lothian joining us live from the White House, thank you. And tomorrow at 9:00 Eastern, President Obama sits down with John King to talk health care reform, the economy and a whole lot more. Get the full story on "State of the Union," tomorrow at 9 a.m. Eastern.

HOLMES: Well conservatives are regrouping and reenergizing this weekend. And CNN's deputy political director Paul Steinhauser is in middle of that reenergizing and regrouping at the Values Voter Summit in Washington. Paul, hello to you once again, sir. They getting you going this morning?

PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: T.J., this is their fourth annual conference, and it's a gathering of social conservatives from across the country. We have got up to about 2,000 people over this two-day gathering.

And as you can imagine, social issues are high on the agenda here, but so is health care. We're hearing a lot about the president's proposals on health care. We're also hearing a lot about cap and trade and some of the other big issues that are being debated in Congress right now. This morning, we heard from John Boehner. He is the top Republican in the House of Representatives, and he was talking about a lot of those issues. He was also talking about next year and hopefully in his mind, grabbing back control of Congress. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), MINORITY LEADER: I'm not running for president, all right? I'm leading an effort amongst House Republicans to earn back our majority so we can take the gavel away from Nancy Pelosi.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEINHAUSER: Now organizers here, T.J., say that the crowds this year are a lot larger and a lot more enthusiastic than they were last year during the presidential election.

HOLMES: Presidential election, funny you should mention that, Paul. How much presidential politics is playing into what's happening there?

STEINHAUSER: Well, you know, it's 2009. We're three years away. But you'd be surprised. There is a lot, actually. A couple minutes from now, Mitt Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts, who ran for the Republican presidential nomination last time, he's going to be speaking here. A couple of other people who may want to run in 2012 for the Republican nomination spoke yesterday, Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota, the governor up there. Mike Pence, he is the congressman from Indiana. And Mike Huckabee, the former governor of Arkansas. And they're going to have a straw poll. They've been voting here, T.J., yesterday and today. We're going to hear the results a little this afternoon, a straw poll on who the people here like for the nomination in 2012, a very early look, T.J.

HOLMES: Paul Steinhauser, deputy political director and friend of our show here but certainly a friend, we had that live interview earlier with the minority leader, John Boehner. We have Paul to thank for that, for getting him in front of a camera for us. So Paul, we appreciate you as always. Truly a friend to our show here on CNN Saturday and Sunday morning. Thanks so much Paul, we'll see you again soon.

STEINHAUSER: Thanks, T.J.

HOLMES: And Republican Representative Joe Wilson may be feeling the partisan heat for his outburst during the president's health care address to Congress but now that he's back in his home state of South Carolina, what kind of reception is he getting there? We'll hear what the voters there are saying about him. It's coming up in our next hour.

NGUYEN: And they called him a person of interest. Turns out he was the prime suspect from the jump. New details on the arrest of the man accused of murdering a Yale graduate student.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Well, we are getting more details about the suspect charged with killing Yale graduate student Annie Le.

HOLMES: It turns out police knew their prime suspect before they'd even found Le's body. CNN's Randi Kaye has the breakdown.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ray Clark knew he was in trouble. He knew he was being followed by more than half a dozen police investigators. He likely also knew where the investigation into Annie Le's death was heading.

New Haven Police Chief James Lewis told me he had his narcotics unit which specializes in surveillance track Clark's every move. Even before they found Annie Le's body, Chief Lewis says he knew Clark was their prime suspect. The head of the unit, Lieutenant John Velleca, began following Clark Saturday night -- the day before Le's body was found, strangled and hidden inside a basement wall at the lab building where she worked alongside the man now accused of killing her.

At first, narcotics officers didn't want Clark to know they were on his trail. That first night, they camped outside his parent's house in Cromwell, Connecticut, about 24 miles from Yale's campus. The day Le's body was found, Clark played softball. Detectives were in the crowd.

By Monday, the day after Le's body was discovered, investigators changed their tactics. They wanted Clark to know they were tailing him. They parked right in front of his apartment, and let their badges show while they walked around -- mind games they were hoping would lead Clark to talk to them, and maybe even confess. It didn't happen. Tuesday morning, investigators went to him. Armed with search warrants, they wanted hair and fingernail DNA samples.

Investigators focused on Clark in part because of what they saw on the more than 700 hours of videotape from the lab building security cameras. On that tape, Ray Clark stood out. A source with knowledge of the investigation told me Clark was seen leaving the building after someone, possibly him, pulled the fire alarm. He had his head in his hands and looked distraught.

After Clark gave a DNA sample on Wednesday, he got a room at this Super8 motel in his family's hometown. He stayed there with his parents, hiding from the media, likely knowing it wouldn't be long before officers came knocking again.

By this time, investigators had interviewed about 150 people and had collected 300 pieces of evidence. Then came the DNA match our source says clearly connects Clark to the murder, indicating the victim's DNA was found on Ray Clark.

Early Thursday morning, Clark was arrested and charged with killing Yale medical student Annie Le. He's being held on $3 million bond. He hasn't entered a plea. His lawyers aren't talking, and neither is he.

Randi Kaye, CNN, New Haven, Connecticut.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: Well, today's forecast doesn't bode so well for much of the deep and mid-South. More rain in the forecast for parts already hit hard earlier this week. Just look at this video of flooding. Such as Memphis, where yesterday's downpour backed up the city's storm drainage system, ew, streets, they were flooded there, leaving a few cars trapped in high water.

HOLMES: Well, Karen, did she pretty much sum up the forecast?

NGUYEN: I did for you, right? I'm not even a certified meteorologist.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HOLMES: All right, well the calendar, it says September 19th, 2009. But happy new year today to some people.

NGUYEN: Yes, and why are we saying this? Because it's Rosh Hashanah which simply translated from Hebrew means the beginning of the new year. The observance began last night at sundown and continues through Sunday at dusk. Now the Jewish New Year begins with 10 days of penitence prior to the Yom Kippur, or atonement day. And just in case you're counting, according to the Jewish calendar the year is 5770. Check your calendars.

HOLMES: Check the calendar. All right, well illegal immigrants not supposed to benefit from health care reform, not supposed to get coverage. But what if they get amnesty? A look at where the debate could be headed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Seven former spy chiefs have a message for President Obama. They've sent a letter urging him to pull the plug on a criminal probe of CIA interrogation methods. They argue that going public about past intelligence operations can only help al Qaeda and jeopardize critical assistance from foreign intelligence counterparts.

Also an Afghan national living in Denver facing more tough questions today by the FBI about an alleged terror plot. An Obama administration official tells CNN that 24-year-old Najibullah Zazi has admitted ties to al Qaeda. Zazi's lawyer, however, says he did not admit any ties to al Qaeda. U.S. intelligence officials believe Zazi and others were planning an attack on a major transportation hub. Sources tell CNN Zazi had video of New York's Grand Central terminal.

Also, some video to show you here. Take a look. This was the scene in Mexico City, a deadly subway shooting. See people filing out there, but that's the gunman. He is now on the train at that point. But before that, he had shot a few people. Eight were wounded, two were killed. This was during rush hour. But you can see it kind of started on your left there, everybody standing waiting on the train and you see kind of a commotion. He was shooting a police officer there. The officer goes down. We're only showing you so much of this video. That man, a good Samaritan, ends up actually trying to take down that gunman. The gunman now facing some charges. We'll get another check of our top stories here coming your way in about 20 minutes.

NGUYEN: All right now though, I want to talk about a hot-button issue surrounding health care reform, and that is illegal immigrants. And they're not supposed to be covered under the president's plan, but they could be if the millions of illegal immigrants already here were fast tracked onto the road to citizenship through immigration reform. Our Lisa Sylvester explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Obama has made it clear illegal immigrants should not receive benefits under the health care proposals, but he's also made clear that he supports creating a path to citizenship for millions of illegal aliens currently in the United States. This is what he told the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Though I do not believe we can extend coverage to those here illegally, if anything this debate underscores the necessity of passing comprehensive immigration reform and resolving the issue of 12 million undocumented people living and working in this country once and for all.

SYLVESTER: Some Republicans sense a backdoor strategy in the making, that despite language in the health care bills that prohibits illegal immigrants from receiving government subsidized health coverage, in the end representative Lamar Smith says they could still get coverage.

REP LAMAR SMITH (R), TEXAS: He is saying on one hand the health care plan that is being considered now is not going to cover illegal immigrants, but then he is saying well I really want to give all those illegal immigrants amnesty, legalize them, so that they'll be eligible for health care.

SYLVESTER: A White House advisor dismissed Smith's contention saying immigration reform is not a means to get more immigrants into the health care system. But law professor Jan Ting, a former immigration official, who describes himself as an Obama supporter says if millions more might be added to the health care system that should be a factor in the debate.

JAN TING, TEMPLE UNIV LAW SCHOOL: We're struggling to find a way to pay for health care reform without raising taxes and, you know, it's a balancing act and if you weigh in 12 or more million illegal aliens who are going to be legalized, and become eligible for benefits, that tilts the balance.

SYLVESTER (on camera): If comprehensive immigration reform does pass in Congress, one question is how soon would those receiving amnesty be eligible to sign up for government health assistance? Under the 1996 Welfare Reform Law, newly legalized immigrants have to wait at least five years before being eligible for programs like Medicare. The National Council of La Raza, a Latino civil rights group, wants to eliminate any waiting period for immigrants with this legal status. Lisa Sylvester, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: All right, here's a question for you. Should the U.S. commit more troops to Afghanistan? We'll take you to the battle on Capitol Hill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Well, the fight in Afghanistan taking place on two fronts, one, of course, Afghanistan, the other, Washington.

NGUYEN: Yeah. The battle on Capitol Hill, whether the U.S. should commit more troops to the fight in Afghanistan, fighting the Taliban, specifically. Here's CNN's Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The latest suicide car bomb attack in the heart of Kabul. Another day when insurgents made clear the capital city is not safe. But suddenly, the Obama administration and the president's top military advisers are split on the urgency to fix Afghanistan's security problems. Just days after the top military officer said...

ADM. MIKE MULLEN, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: A properly resourced counterinsurgency probably means more forces.

STARR: The vice president said, not so fast.

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A decision on additional resources is premature and it's a distance off. STARR: In an exclusive interview, Vice President Joe Biden told CNN's Chris Lawrence no more troops will be sent until the current 21,000 troop increase is in place and the Afghan election results are finalized -- all still weeks away.

But a senior U.S. military official tells CNN, General Stanley McChrystal, the top U.S. commander, has now decided how many more troops he needs, but he has been told by Washington, "Don't send that request until you're asked for it."

ROBERT GATES, DEFENSE SECRETARY: There's been a lot of talk this week and in the last two or three weeks about Afghanistan. And frankly, from my standpoint, everybody ought to take a deep breath.

STARR: The reason may be, the White House is not ready to hear what the general has to say. All indications are McChrystal now believes he needs 30,000 to 40,000 additional troops -- military sources tell us they worry it's a huge decision the White House does not want to get in the way of other issues like health care.

But senior military officers have long signaled they can't wait too long, given Afghanistan's collapsing security.

MULLEN: I think it is serious and it is deteriorating, and I've said that over the last couple of years -- that the Taliban insurgency has gotten better, more sophisticated.

STARR: McChrystal's plan may not remain under wraps for long. There are growing indications from some Republicans in Congress, they want to hear from the general directly about what he has in mind. Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: Well, Russia has responded in kind to President Obama's scrapping the Bush administration's missile defense shield. It's dropping its own plans for a missile site near Poland. Here's what we're talking about. The Russian missiles would have been in a small Russian enclave on Poland's northern border. But Poland was supposed to have a U.S. missile site. But President Obama says the U.S. will now focus on more mobile missile defense systems.

HOLMES: Well, as we know right now, it's a critical time in the health care reform debate. While I was sitting in for John Roberts on "American Morning" yesterday, I asked the former Senate majority leader, Tom Daschle, who of course has the ear of the president on health care, about the arguments on both sides.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM DASCHLE, FORMER SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: I think when it comes to both how much help there is for the states and how much help there is for the middle class as they try to buy insurance, we're probably going to have to adjust those figures. I think there's a growing consensus that we've got room in the budget now to address those figures at a little bit more successfully. So, my guess is you're going to see those numbers tweaked over the next few days.

HOLMES: You say tweaked. That sounds like more expensive. How much more expensive are we talking about here, senator?

DASCHLE: Well, I think within the realm of the budget. We're shooting for something below $900 billion. I think you're going to do that. We've got several billion dollars to deal with here. I think most of those resources are going to go into making insurance more affordable for more people.

HOLMES: And I know you've been looking, it's tough too, there are five bills out there that are thousands and thousands of pages, but we have a general idea of all of these bills. This particular bill does not have the public option in it. We have some saying a Democrat, just was here with us yesterday, Representative Weiner, said this one is dead on arrival. So, how does this bill move us forward if you have a Democrat even saying this bill doesn't have a chance in heck if it does not have the public option in it?

DASCHLE: Well, the prospects for a public option, T.J., are different in the House than they are in the Senate. A calculation has been made that the votes just aren't there today, but I think perhaps before the end of this process you're going to have some votes. You'll have a vote up or down probably on some form of a public option either in committee or on the Senate floor, and then we'll know. But clearly we have to move forward, and that's exactly what the Democrats and some Republicans are trying to do, find what common ground we can. We'll find out whether that includes a public option or not in the Senate.

HOLMES: You say that there will be an up-or-down vote at some point. At that point, do you expect and is there just hope that Democrats will then just, you know, stake their position and vote together no matter what this public debate is like? Just hoping that maybe once it comes to the floor that Democrats will get together and this might have to just be a partisan bill.

DASCHLE: Well, this is a test of governance. We are facing one of the biggest challenges in the country domestically with health reform. We have got to demonstrate that we can address that challenge successfully. Democrats are in the clear majority in the House and Senate, we have the White House. We have to perform, we've got to get this job done. I think you'll see Democrats coalescing around a final version that will give us the unity we need to do that job within the next few weeks.

HOLMES: All right sir, before I let you go here, let me just ask you about the president. You of course have the ear of the president and he has your ear, as well. Tell us, he said several things publicly, but from what you understand, will the president sign a bill that does not have the public option?

DASCHLE: Well, the president is going to wait and see until the final product is delivered before he makes any final decision on what he's going to do, T.J. He's going to look at everything. He's going to look at whether there's a public option, something that he and I both strongly support. But he's going to look at the whole package and make a decision at that time.

HOLMES: And last thing here, he is going to be doing a whole lot of television this weekend. Is that good or bad? Does the president need to maybe -- he's playing off his personal popularity, but is he running a risk here of overexposing?

DASCHLE: Well, he's our best spokesperson. And you know, now is the time. Now is really his best opportunity to make the case to the American people using the media, talking to members of Congress, talking to groups as he did yesterday on a university campus. He is doing everything he possibly can to ensure that we've not left one stone unturned in getting this job done.

HOLMES: And I know you said the best spokesman, I know I have to let you go. But still as part of the problem, as well, he talks about my plan, but what he has right now is his suggestions. Do you think he needs to send a bill up there that says health care by Barack Obama instead of leaving it to them on Capitol Hill to put something together?

DASCHLE: We now have three bills. We have three in the House and two in the Senate.

HOLMES: But none of them are his. Do we need his?

DASCHLE: Well, we'll have his and he's working to make sure it's his at the end of day. What he's said is he's going to work with the Congress to deliver a bill that's both his and the Congress and that's the way it should be.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: And the GOP leadership opinion on health care hasn't changed this week despite the latest compromise bill having no public option. In the weekly radio address, Representative Sue Myrick of North Carolina warned that the plan will cause delays in treatment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. SUE MYRICK (R), NORTH CAROLINA: Replacing your current health care with a government-run system is not the answer. These so- called health care reform bills have different names -- a public option, a co-op, a trigger. Make no mistake, these are all gateways to government-run health care.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: And Myrick also says the president's plan to eliminate waste and abuse in Medicare and Medicaid means seniors on Medicare should expect cuts.

HOLMES: Meanwhile, a few days from now, the world's economic leaders will meet in Pittsburgh for the G-20 summit. You can find out coming up next what the president thinks they should accomplish.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) NGUYEN: The G-20 summit is meeting in Pittsburgh next week, and in his weekly radio address and on the Web, President Obama said the world's leading economic powers have made real progress in stabilizing the global financial system since their last summit in April. But he says they still need to close some of the gaps in regulation that allow the "reckless risk taking and irresponsibility."

Gunfire added greater urgency to the afternoon rush hour yesterday in this Mexico City substation. Just look at this video. You can see where the gun shots start ringing out and people start racing away. Well police say they stopped a suspected graffiti artist who pulled a gun and opened fire on the train platform. There's the guy right there. He killed two people. Eight others were hurt, five by gunfire and three people were trampled in the ensuing stampede to the escape. The suspect faces a litany of charges including murder.

A judge says Katherine Jackson can challenge the executors named in her son's will and won't be disinherited because of it. Michael Jackson put an attorney and music executive in charge of his vast estate, but his mother, she wants control. Court documents reveal the estate is paying Katherine Jackson $86,000 a month for living expenses.

HOLMES: Want to check out the weekend forecast, which is a mess for a lot of folks, including us here in Atlanta.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HOLMES: All right, folks, this not that tough a question, right? Who wrote the Declaration of Independence? Seriously, answer that to yourself right now. Who wrote it? Do you know? How about who was the first president of the United States? Surely you got that one. Well surely any high school student could answer that. Right? Not so much.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: All right, easy pop quiz.

NGUYEN: Easy.

HOLMES: How excited would you be if you had a test and one of the questions was who was the first president of the U.S.? That's easy stuff. You're going to ace that test.

NGUYEN: Well, you might be surprised by the percentage of high school students who couldn't come up with the right answer on a recent survey. They did not know that. CNN's Ines Ferre takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

INES FERRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They're questions every foreigner becoming a U.S. citizen must know. How many justices are on the Supreme Court? Who was the first president of the United States? A recent survey shows only 23 percent of Oklahoma public high school students correctly answered George Washington. Even fewer knew there are nine Supreme Court justices. Brandon Dutcher of the conservative Oklahoma Council of Public Affairs commissioned the telephone survey of 1,000 students.

BRANDON DUTCHER, OKLAHOMA COUNCIL OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS: The citizenship exam has a first try passing rate of 92 percent. Sadly, our high school students only passed at the rate of 2.8 percent. So that was actually kind of a punch in the gut.

FERRE: On a national level, students don't fare well, either. The latest national civics score show that about a quarter of 12th graders have a proficient knowledge of civics. That's remained relatively constant over the last 10 years. The lack of civics literacy extends into college and adulthood. Another national survey shows that fewer than half of all Americans can name all three branches of the government. Groups that emphasize teaching civics in schools are outraged.

ANNE NEAL, AMER. COUNCIL OF TRUSTEES & ALUMNI: Our nation is premised on informed participation. That is the central aspect of a Democratic Republic.

RICHARD BRAKE, INTERCOLLEGIATE STUDIES INSTITUTE: What's at stake is when you go into that voting booth can you cast an informed vote? Well, you can't cast an informed vote if you have no idea what the institutions that you're voting for stand for.

FERRE: The Oklahoma Department of Education questions the credibility of the recent survey because it was done by phone telling CNN, quote, "we conduct state testing and the questions are much more difficult. The pass rate is 68 to 70 percent in all four of the state's social studies exams." Ines Ferre, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: All right. So we asked you to weigh in today and we got a lot of really good responses. Let's take you straight to them. My Facebook page, Jonathan Ebanks (ph) says, "That's sad but I bet if you ask them sports or television-related questions, they would score an A plus." That's an interesting point. And then we go to Twitter real quick. Mrs. Zack (ph) says, "This is a direct result of teaching the test to pass tests required for the NCLB, in my opinion."

HOLMES: That's a good point there. Some people say you're missing a lot of basic information. My mom is a retired now school teacher but she would always say you have to teach kids differently. This kid might be ahead of this kid and you can't just.

NGUYEN: One way and expect them all to learn it.

HOLMES: Yeah. They find themselves just trying to teach to what answers are going to be on a particular test. You miss some of that general knowledge. One here from Adam. We've been talking about this one this morning. Here's an interesting take on it. What does knowing how many representatives and senators accomplish unless you're in the government? It seems kind of pointless. I mostly forget that stuff so fast. After learning it years ago I don't think knowing senators, judges, representatives, even does anything. Makes you feel smarter? Yes, Adam, it does.

NGUYEN: They are helping write the law in which we all live. You may want to go vote one day and know who your senator is.

HOLMES: There is that. Fredricka though, she could ace that test no problem.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Let's not give me too much credit.

NGUYEN: No, well, no. We won't test you on it.

WHITFIELD: Whew.

NGUYEN: We'll give you plenty of credit.

WHITFIELD: OK. Thanks. Good morning you to both. You look lovely. Betty, you look gorgeous.

NGUYEN: Thank you, dear.

HOLMES: I told you that earlier. You wouldn't even acknowledge it.

NGUYEN: No, I said thank you. You made me blush.

HOLMES: We'll do this later.

NGUYEN: Thank you, though.

WHITFIELD: OK. Well, we've got a lot straight ahead. Congressman Joe Wilson, you know, he has been in the forefront of a lot of discussions all week long. And he said last night, he went back to his home state of South Carolina and he said, you know what? Let's put it all behind us except that he had to reflect on it once again. He even offered some advice. So we'll be delving into that.

And you know, 4:00 Eastern hour, this has kind of helped precipitate a huge conversation that has been taking place in office places, in homes, all week long, which is where is our civility? Have we lost it? We're going to be focusing in the 4:00 Eastern hour, are we losing control? So we want to hear from you. Are folks having a difficult time trying to resolve conflicts or maybe voicing their frustrations? I.e., Serena Williams earlier in the week and even Kanye West.

HOLMES: That's a whole another story.

WHITFIELD: That's a conversation about are we becoming a little too self-centered? Also in the noon Eastern hour, we've got a lot of legal cases, including a situation that took place in Georgia and now all eyes are on whether the federal investigators need to jump into this one. Is this a hate crime? We're talking about an alleged assault taking place between a white man and a black woman all in the view of a 7-year-old girl. And so now federal investigators want to know what's at the heart of this matter? I would say they heard a lot of racial slurs. Is this a hate crime? If so, what's next? All that straight ahead noon Eastern hour and beyond.

HOLMES: You have a packed hour.

NGUYEN: Yes you do.

WHITFIELD: That's why I'm so out of breath.

HOLMES: Well, catch your breath. We'll see you here in about six and a half minutes.

WHITFIELD: OK.

HOLMES: Thank you, Fred.

NGUYEN: See you, Fred.

A long way from where he started. Yep, one astronaut finally makes it into outer space, but that is just the first step in his journey.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: All right, dream come true here. Jose Hernandez finally made it to outer space on this past shuttle mission.

HOLMES: It is something he promised to do back when he was seven. And as our Thelma Gutierrez reports, he is now committed to helping others just like him keep similar promises to themselves.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Astronaut Jose Hernandez was born to immigrant parents. As a child, he worked right here in the fields of Stockton, California, alongside undocumented migrant workers. His parents told us his experiences are the reason why he supports immigration reform.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jose Hernandez, mission specialist number two on the mission, is making his first spaceflight.

Booster ignition and liftoff of Discovery.

GUTIERREZ (voice-over): A trip to space, against astronomical odds for one astronaut.

SALVADOR HERNANDEZ, FATHER OF NASA ASTRONAUT JOSE HERNANDEZ: (INAUDIBLE) also, everything in the field, you know.

GUTIERREZ: Salvador and Julia (ph) Hernandez were migrant workers from Mexico who took their children to work with them every weekend.

HERNANDEZ: Because I want them to learn how to -- to learn money.

GUTIERREZ (on camera): It sounds like the lesson paid off.

HERNANDEZ: It sure did. It sure it, because you see that result now. You see the result.

GUTIERREZ: They say, every night, one child, Jose, just 7 at the time, would lay out on the grass and stare at the stars. He told them he would become an astronaut.

Though Jose was born in the U.S., the family followed the harvest, and he didn't learn to speak English well until he was 12. But Jose was gifted and proficient in the language of mathematics. He excelled in physics and engineering, and never gave up on his dream. For 12 years in a row, he applied to NASA and was rejected.

Then, in 2004, he was finally accepted, at the age of 41.

LETICIA CORONA, SISTER OF NASA ASTRONAUT JOSE HERNANDEZ: You think about when we were working in the field. You think about all the struggles, the hardships that we faced.

GUTIERREZ: On his first flight that just ended last week, Jose gave an interview from space to the Spanish-language TV network Televisa. He talked about his background, the mission, and how he hoped the Obama administration would pass comprehensive immigration reform.

His public comments on a controversial issue caused NASA to take its own stand. In a statement released to the media, NASA said, "Hernandez's opinions are his own and do not represent the space agency," but that he has every right to express his personal views.

HERNANDEZ: I'm really proud of this -- this guy here right there.

GUTIERREZ: His parents say they're glad their son hasn't forgotten his humble beginnings. They hope he will inspire other children to seek their place in the universe.

(on camera): Jose Hernandez says he wants to make sure that other low-income students have a chance to achieve their dreams. And so he started a foundation called Reaching for the Stars to raise scholarship money, so that they can pursue their studies in math and science. Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Stockton, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: Well, the CNN NEWSROOM continues with Fredricka Whitfield.