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U.S. Commander's Fears for Afghanistan; Cross-Country Terror Probe; 'Assignment Detroit'

Aired September 21, 2009 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: We're pushing forward now this hour on a two-front war. Here at home, An Afghan iman accused to lying to the feds is about to face a judge in New York. Two other suspects face a judge in Colorado next hour. Investigators believe they're connected to a plot to set off bombs possibly at a New York transit hub.

In Afghanistan, the senior U.S. commander in an eight-year war is warning all could be lost if the U.S. fails to send enough troops. It's a grim assessment you were not supposed to hear.

And that's where we're going to begin right now, a formally confidential pitch for more troops and a new strategy to put down the Taliban for good.

CNN Pentagon Correspondent Chris Lawrence joins me now with the details -- Chris.

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, this is really just a sobering sixty-six pages that really talks about what General Stanley McChrystal sees as the potential for mission failure if he doesn't get the resources that he says he needs. If there is not a change in strategy, a true counterinsurgency strategy, he says there is the high possibility of failure.

General McChrystal says, "Failure to gain the initiative and reverse insurgent momentum in the near term, the next year, while the Afghan security capacity matures, risks an outcome where defeating the insurgency is no longer possibly." That's not just talking about more troops. He's talking about a different strategy, and he says American troops are going to have to assume more risk, getting out of those armored vehicles, getting off of those forward-operating bases, and mingling with the people to assume the same risks that the Afghan people are.

PHILLIPS: All right. Well, the released McChrystal report, will it speed up the process now?

LAWRENCE: Possibly. There is a line of thinking that says the goal here is to stop al Qaeda from establishing a base within Afghanistan. Al Qaeda right now is predominantly based in Pakistan. There is a line of thinking that says a minimum amount of troops can still do that, but the administration wanted more time, frankly, to look at this, to get more of the troops already authorized in the country, to get the civilian advisers in the country.

I spoke with Vice President Biden a few days ago in Iraq, who clearly told me that they were looking for more time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAWRENCE: Do you think that more troops are need to win?

JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I think that's premature. Look, the president made a decision back in March setting clearly what our goal was -- that is, to defeat al Qaeda in that region -- and made a significant deployment of resources, civilian and military. They're now only getting in place. They're not all fully in place and deployed.

Secondly, the president said that he would reevaluate resources after the presidential election. The presidential election is not over yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAWRENCE: Well, clearly, they wanted more time to assess the situation and get a better handle on the strategy. The fact that this report was leaked definitely puts more pressure, not less, on the Obama administration -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Chris Lawrence, thanks so much.

So, how do the troops who are over there now feel about their commander's not-so-secret warning?

CNN's Atia Abawi picks up the story in the Afghan capital for us -- Atia.

ATIA ABAWI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Kyra.

Well, General McChrystal's assessment and his new outlook for a new strategy in Afghanistan is nothing new here, nothing new to the troops on the ground, to the commanders on the ground. They have been hearing this from time to time. They have been told to engage with the Afghan people more. They know that there is more risk involved with that.

Even in his assessment, General McChrystal said that by engaging, by going behind those blast walls, getting out of those up-armored vehicles, they will be seeing more ISAF casualties. But it's a key factor in success here in the mission in Afghanistan.

And when you talk to the Afghan people, that will help them, because right now some Afghans do see the international forces here as occupiers. They look back at the Soviet invasion, but the difference here is, in 2001, the majority of Afghans welcomed the American, welcomed the coalition forces with open arms, hoping for a difference. But it's been eight years now. They are still waiting to see a substantial difference.

And right now, when you talk to the average Afghan, they're not going to know about this 66-page report. But what they do know is that an assessment was written by the top NATO commander. It was sent to Washington over three weeks ago, and nothing has been done as of yet, even though that assessment said urgency is needed -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Yes. And so many people here, especially within Homeland Security, looking at what happened with this alleged terror plot that was broken up in Denver and partially in New York, saying, look, this just underscores the need to win that war in Afghanistan.

You've talked to McChrystal. What is he telling you about all this?

ABAWI: Well, just a few weeks ago, I did go out with General Stanley McChrystal and Ambassador Eikenberry, the U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan, and they did talk about the urgency, the need to change the strategy, the need to engage with the Afghan people. But the key factor that they talked about was infrastructure.

They know what the Afghan people need, but it seems at the moment that they do not have the resources to push it forward. And what they are hoping is that Washington will come through and give them the resources they need to push this mission in Afghanistan forward. But the fear right now is that they may not get those resources -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Atia Abawi, thank you so much.

Well, finding the terrorists over there, keeping them away from the homeland here. As three suspects are facing charges and judges in two cities, we are reminded about the importance of homeland security. It all stems from an alleged terror plot that one source has called the real deal. For now, at least the three are charged only with lying to investigators.

We get the latest from CNN's Jeanne Meserve. She's in Denver.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Najibullah Zazi, the Afghan national who's been the focal point of this terror probe, was arrested at his home outside Denver Saturday night, along with his father, Mohammed Zazi. The owner of this Muslim burial service in Queens, New York, Ahmad Afzali, was the third taken into custody. All are charged with making false statement to the FBI during the terror investigation.

Court documents reveal no details about the timing or targeting of the alleged explosives plot, but they alleged that Najibullah Zazi lied about nine pages of detailed bomb-making instructions found on his computer.

RAY KELLY, NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT: The FBI had taken his computer, had mirrored it, had copied it. In essence put it back in his car, Mr. Naji did not know that that happened apparently. So when he was questioned about whether or not he knew anything about these written notes and it was showed to him, he denied that knowledge.

MESERVE: The court documents also allege that Najibullah Zazi admitted getting explosives and weapons training at an Al Qaeda camp in Pakistan, though Zazi and his lawyer claim Saturday he had not made such an admission. Experts say the charges were filed to pressure the man into cooperating with the ongoing investigation of Najibullah Zazi.

FRAN TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: What direction is he getting from Al Qaeda members and the federally administered tribal areas in addition to the training that he got? Secondly, who else has he communicated with here in the United States? Obviously, the government has some idea of who that is, based on their surveillance, both electronic and physical, but what they want to do is make sure they've identified the entire net, the whole range of conspirators.

MESERVE: In Queens, New York, where one of the arrests took place, a member of the Muslim community expressed surprise the alleged plot had come to light now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the end of Ramadan. People are more humble, people are more religious. It would be very hard for me to imagine people would be doing wrong deeds during that month, especially at that time of the year.

MESERVE (on camera): Experts say it's possible, even probable, that additional charges will be brought, and they say it's likely the government revealed as little as possible in these first charges as its shores up its case and continues its investigation in the U.S., Pakistan and elsewhere.

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Denver.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: All right. Let's go deeper into the people at the center of this developing story.

"Denver Post" reporter Bruce Finley has been digging. A lot of digging, actually. And he interviewed Najibullah Zazi and members of his family.

Finley joins me now live from Denver.

So, Bruce, I'm curious, how did you track him down, get him to talk to you? And what did he say?

BRUCE FINLEY, "DENVER POST": Hi, Kyra.

Well, quite a good team effort by our reporters at The Post. We were able to locate Najibullah starting just with that name, heard by a police reporter over the scanner, Najibullah, and then working through electronic databases, public records on traffic tickets, and shuttle drivers database, find an address.

Interviews with his aunt and uncle first helped piece together his life story as a boy from Paktia Province in Afghanistan, coming over to Peshawar, the border city between Pakistan and Afghanistan. He said his wife is there. He had gone back, as those charging documents show, in August of '08 through January of this year for a visit.

From there, we went to his apartment where he was staying with his father. A bit awkward, really, because it's Ramadan, they're barefoot there in the doorway, and there had been no accusation made yet. But he confirmed a lot of that story, and also asserted quite strongly that he had no ties to any terrorism. Subsequent talks over the phone, he seemed a bit more hesitant, punting to the attorney.

PHILLIPS: And so, as you -- what about other family -- I mean, I guess, you know, in any way, shape or form, when you talk to him, other members of the family, did anything strike you as odd or unusual or -- it's one of those moments where you're comfortably uncomfortable, as we like to say in this business. You know? You're treading on a real kind of, I guess, thin line in many ways.

What was your sense about what he was telling you and what's come about now?

FINLEY: Well, I think they were all quite gracious under the circumstances to talk with us. I found it interesting that, in talking with his father, Mohammed, after one of the lengthy questioning sessions by the FBI, it was a bit harried, but he told me that he wasn't really hearing the full story from his son. Similarly, an uncle that I interviewed that he'd been asking Najibullah, well, why would you go on September 9th and 10th in a rented car to New York if you're from Afghanistan? And he didn't feel he was getting quite a straight answer.

That certainly jibes with my feeling from the direct conversations I had, also brief, where he was hesitant as I pushed further on to, you know, why would you go on a car then, what was the purpose of your visit? Officially, they emphasized that they went there for a family business matter to deal with a coffee cart that they owned there in Flushing, Queens.

PHILLIPS: Let me ask you this, too. As a reporter in that area, why Denver? Why do they reside in Denver?

And definitely, too, as this pushes forward -- and right now it's an alleged plot, but as we see this all play out, you know, you would expect to see something like this New York, Washington, Los Angeles. But Denver, it's a bit unusual. Or maybe it's not.

FINLEY: I suppose from a counterterrorism perspective, in an intertwined world, any globally-oriented major city would serve as well as any other. Denver has a fast-growing foreign-born population of about one in seven residents, and with pockets of people from all over the world, including about 1,000 or so from Afghanistan. One of the many mosques I visited early in the week, just with people from Afghanistan and Pashtun people from Pakistan who were worshipping there during the Ramadan.

PHILLIPS: Well, Bruce, I tell you what...

FINLEY: And also, I think, just to emphasize, the only charges they've got are non-terrorism charges at this point. The charging documents show that the government asserts in one sentence that this is part of a plot to detonate homemade bombs in the U.S., but there's only that one sentence. And as your reporting has emphasized, really, they just have them just on making false statements at this point.

PHILLIPS: Right. And obviously you'll be investigating it, The Post there, your team, and we will as well. But you do tremendous work, Bruce, and really appreciate you spending some time with me today. Thanks so much.

FINLEY: The pleasure is mine.

PHILLIPS: All right. Let's bring you up to speed on the back story.

This is what happened on September 9th. Najibullah Zazi leaves his Colorado home in a rental car. He stopped on his way into New York City for what police say is a random drug check. Then September 14th, police raid three New York apartments, including one where Zazi had briefly stayed.

Now, last Wednesday, the FBI started three days of interviews with Zazi in Denver. And last Thursday, authorities raided Zazi's home, as well as that of his uncle, in the Denver suburb of Aurora. Now, on Saturday, police arrested Zazi, his father, and a New York imam for allegedly making false statements.

We'll continue to follow the investigation.

In parts of the southeast, a river runs through it. No peaceful paddle today as residents escape flooded homes and neighborhoods any way they can.

We'll have the very latest from Chad. He's in the Weather Center.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Well, five young children and their mother found dead in their south Florida home. Their bodies were discovered Saturday after family members told Naples police they hadn't heard from the mother.

Officials described the killing as horrific. They're now searching for the 33-year-old husband seen right here in this picture coming up. They say he's a person of interest and may have flown to Haiti.

A criminally insane killer on the run for three days back in custody. Phillip Paul made his getaway Thursday while on a field trip with a hospital staff to a fair in Spokane, Washington. He was recaptured yesterday. Officials say that Paul had planned his escape for months. Back in 1991, Paul gave officials the slip while on another field trip. G-20 summit this Thursday. We know what that means -- protests. And President Obama and some two other dozen world leaders will gather in Pittsburgh to mull over the global economic crisis. And they can expect an earful from the thousands of protesters who always show up for the event. Security plans include blocking traffic from a three- block perimeter around the convention center.

Millions of small business owners trying to get a leg up in a very hairy economy. We're going to check into a doggy day care in Detroit that's trying to parlay pups into profits.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Perhaps no American city has been hit harder by the recession than Detroit. Unemployment there is nearing 29 percent. Despite the challenges, residents are determined to make their hometown thrive again.

Poppy Harlow is live in Detroit as CNNMoney.com unveils "Assignment Detroit."

Poppy, you have been dedicated, I tell you what, to Detroit and all the economy stories there, and how things have been really tough on folks from the schools, to the housing, to you name it. You've even interviewed Kid Rock about what he's doing to try to help out.

How are people getting by?

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: You are exactly right, Kyra. This is a dedicated project for at least the next year between Time Inc. and CNN Money. Why? Because this is really sort of the heart of America, and it seems like a lot of people are forgetting about how important Detroit is.

But I'll tell you one thing -- the time I've spent here has shown me the people of this city are, in one word, resilient. We spent the day with a small business owner who is working her butt off. Let me put it that way. No better way to put it. She is working so hard to get by in Detroit.

Here's a look at her.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LIZ BLONDY, OWNER, CANINE TO FIVE: It's confusing. Detroit's kind of a weird place.

It's definitely a dichotomy of people that pay $4 for a latte and people that pay $10 for a crack rock. It's weird.

This used to be -- we call it Midtown now, but it used to be called the Cass Corridor. And the Cass Corridor was traditionally a very rough neighborhood. Lots of hookers, lots of drugs.

Behind our amazing community garden that we have here, we have a building, pretty burned out, drug-infested. So I'd say it's about 100 yards away, maybe. About 200 yards in that direction, we have a Starbucks.

I've got people standing in front of my business occasionally asking my customers for money. Very, very frustrating. I work very, very hard to make sure that that doesn't happen. We got security cameras installed. I doubt if I was in the suburbs I would have had to get security cameras installed to make sure that my customers' cars don't get broken into.

I deal with the neighborhood. I deal with the challenges. I actually hope that in opening my business here, I'm making the neighborhood a little bit better. I think I am.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: She certainly is, Kyra.

You're looking at a city with 29 percent unemployment, the highest we've seen since the 1970s. And auto industry on its knees, rampant foreclosures. She's doing what she can to make it in this city -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: So, tell us more about the commitment that the team has made to covering Detroit.

HARLOW: Sure. Yes. You know, you just look behind me and you see a really beautiful middle class neighborhood.

This is not really emblematic of all of Detroit. This is one of those pockets of hope, one of those middle class neighborhoods that is left.

And this home right here that you're going to see, this gray house was just purchased by Time Inc., because we're dedicated to keeping reporters here 24/7, Kyra, for at least the next year. There's a full-time reporter that's going to be living there.

We're going to be in and out of here. As you can see, a school bus coming by, kids just getting out of school. But we are going to be here around the clock for the next year with reporters living here, if not longer, telling the story of Detroit.

And I want to push you to the Web site that was just launched today called "Assignment Detroit." Take a look here. It's CNNMoney.com/Detroit. That's where you can find all our stories, full coverage right there. But a continuing story and a critical city that we are not going to forget about -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And we'll be right there with you. Thanks, Poppy.

President Obama on the road again, pitching both his economic and health care reform plans. This morning's stop, Troy, New York, where he delivered a bullish pep talk, vowing that better days are coming.

He was speaking at Hudson Valley Community College. The president said that one key to success is the government doing "its modest part," and he also hammered away on why small businesses need health insurance reform.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK H. OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Health care costs, they leave our small businesses at a disadvantage when competing with our large businesses. And they leave our large businesses at a disadvantage when competing around the world. We will never know the enormity of the costs of our economy to the countless Americans unable to become entrepreneurs or to start a small business, to follow their dreams, because they're afraid of losing their health insurance.

So, to lead in the global economy, we must pass health insurance reform that brings down costs and provides more security for people who have insurance and offers options to people who don't have health insurance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Later today, Mr. Obama travels to New York City where he'll become the first sitting president to make an appearance on "David Letterman's Late Show."

As we dug deeper into health care, we uncovered an eye-popping stat. Every 12 minutes in the U.S., there's a death linked to the lack of health insurance. That's according to Harvard researchers in the American Journal of Public Health. Talking about almost 45,000 people every year. And that numbers about two and a half times previous estimates. Researchers say that jump likely corresponds to the big spike in the number of uninsured. .

The war in Afghanistan. It's supposed to be an allied effort. But just how committed are America's allies, especially as more lives are lost? We're going to take you overseas to find out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: More now on a grim forecast from the senior U.S. commander in Afghanistan. In a report that was supposed to be read only by higher-ups in Washington, General Stanley McChrystal warns the Afghan war could be lost if the U.S. and NATO skimp on manpower.

That report ended up "The Washington Post." Now the big question becomes, will President Obama send even more troops than he already has? Well, yesterday, the president staged a one-man blitz of the Sunday talk shows, and the Afghan question was front and center on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" with John King.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: The first question is, are we doing the right thing? Are we pursuing the right strategy? And -- once I have that clarity from the commanders on the ground, Secretary Gates, my national security adviser, Jim Jones and others, when we have clarity on that, the question is, how do we resource it? And that's -- what I will say to the American public is not going to be driven by the politics at the moment. It's going to be driven that, a, my most important job is to keep us safe, and al Qaeda is still trying to do us harm. But b, every time I sign an order, I'm answerable to the parents of those young men and women who I'm sending over there. And I want to make sure it's for the right reason.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: A stately, somber homecoming today for six Italian soldiers killed in Afghanistan. Hundreds and hundreds of mourners attended a state funeral for the paratroopers in Rome. They and 20 Afghan civilians were victims of a suicide car bombing Thursday in Kabul.

Our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson was at that Mass. Nic, with Italy suffering its deadliest day in Afghanistan, what's the stance on sending more troops there as we talk about it here in the States as well?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The official stance from politicians and from the military is to continue sending troops. When you talk to people -- and we've been talking to them over the past couple of days here, about these deaths and how they feel about it, Italy is not afraid to put this issue out in the public, this national day of mourning. And this funeral service were carried live on television. So, nobody's shying away from the topic here.

More people are telling us, look, we, Italy, have made a commitment to NATO, to the United States and to the Afghans to help out. We can't back out on that commitment. However, they're also saying that, look, we're not sure about where this war is going, we're not sure how long it's going to last. We're not quite sure, really, why we're in there.

And some are saying, perhaps we should bring our troops out with the others, maybe as soon as the end of this year, some are suggesting. The official position at the moment, despite the casualties, is to continue.

PHILLIPS: You know what's interesting, Nic, is watching that Mass. And you said it was carried out live on television. Here at home, we don't see something like this on a regular basis. And they're talking about the deaths in Afghanistan. We talk about the deaths in Afghanistan. It seems like when it comes to worldwide support on this war, it really varies from country to country.

ROBERTSON: And it's also a sort after political factor for politicians. Are they in a position where they've got a long term in government and they can afford some criticism from the opposition? Or is the opposition, like in Britain, trying to score points off the government? More than 200 British troops have been killed. On a routine basis, troops there carried home in coffins through the English countryside. And the government gets heavily criticized.

Here, Silvio Berlusconi, the prime minister, has got a very active opposition rallying against them. So, he has to listen to what they're saying, too. So, I think there's a political factor in all these home countries. This war's been going on for eight years. It's a question that a lot of people, they just don't think about answering because they don't hear about the deaths. But when they see it on their TV, that question comes front and center. When the politicians are the ones who have to answer it.

PHILLIPS: Nic Robertson, appreciate it.

And Nic brings up the perfect point, and that's why we want to talk about there may be debate about the number of troops in Afghanistan and how that war should be fought. But there's absolutely no debate when it comes to saluting our fallen heroes from that war.

We're talking about fallen heroes like Army First Lieutenant Tyler E. Parten. He died September 12th when insurgents attacked his unit. Parten's father says his 24-year-old son wrote music and that he was incredibly gifted.

Army Specialist Daniel L. Cox was killed September 12th when he was attacked with small-arms fire and an improvised explosive device. His high school football coach says Cox was always the first to volunteer and put the needs of the team before himself. That 23-year- old grew up in Kansas.

And a memorial service will be held tomorrow for Army Staff Sergeant Nekl N. Allen, killed on September 12th. His family says Allen always wanted to be a soldier, but he talked his sister out of enlisting because he thought it was too dangerous. He is survived by a wife and three children.

These are just three of the 837 U.S. men and women who have given their lives for all of us in the war in Afghanistan.

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PHILLIPS: Police in Florida dealing with a horrific crime are asking the feds for help. The bodies of a mother and her five kids were found this weekend in Naples. Investigators want the FBI to help track down this man, actually, her husband, Mesac Damas.

But apparently, what's coming in to CNN right now, the wires are actually reporting this, that police in Haiti have detained a Florida man wanted for the questioning in this crime. Apparently his SUV was found at the Miami Airport. We're talking about Mesac Damas. Investigators thought he had been -- that he had possibly escaped to Haiti. Now we're being told that he is in police custody.

We're learning more about the mind of kidnapping and rape suspect Phillip Garrido. He created a black box that he says allows him to communicate without speaking. It's made of plastic, has a metal switch and jacks for headphones. He gave his invention to a friend for safekeeping and shortly before his arrest in the Jaycee Dugard case. Well, his friend called him a whack job.

Torrential rains across the southeastern U.S. are once again underscoring the deadly force of nature. Two people dead in the metro Atlanta area, their vehicles swept away by flash flooding. Another person drowned in Chattanooga. Some areas got more than a foot of rain in the past 24 hours and more is on the way.

More from the CNN NEWSROOM straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: He's taken on General Motors, the National Rifle Association and the health care industry. Now in his latest movie, Michael Moore is attacking capitalism itself. Controversial filmmaker came to what he calls the scene of the crime.

And that's where our Susan Lisovicz just caught up with him. My guess is it was a very interesting interview, Susan. I know you saw the movie, and you were anxious to talk to him.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, and there were a lot of spectators interested as well. Double-decker buses, Wall Streeters, tourists, you name it. Michael Moore, Kyra, wanted to meet at one of the most famous tourist attractions on Wall street. A sculpture called The Charging Bull. That's where Moore made his charge that the capitalist system is broken and cannot be fixed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER: It got broke a long time ago. And like a lot of things, if you don't fix it right away, then it gets to a point where you can't repair it. Thirty years ago when Ronald Reagan was elected and they came up with this concept of trickle-down economics and go-go capitalism where anybody can do anything they want, well, it started to fall apart then. That's when we really started seeing the first unemployment losses...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LISOVICZ: The disparity between rich and poor, the struggles of the middle class and government that Moore says is enslaved to corporate America are all reasons why Moore says capitalism is evil. He says the U.S. need a whole new economic system, that he doesn't have a name for it or even a definition of what it would look like.

As imperfect as capitalism may be, it's difficult to make a film without it. One of the producers of the film, the Weinstein Company, a private company whose investors include Goldman Sachs, the target in the movie. Moore acknowledges he makes a good living as a filmmaker, and told me his cut on "Capitalism: A Love Story" depends on how many people go see it.

"LARRY KING LIVE" will have Michael Moore live for a full hour this Wednesday night at 9 p.m. Eastern. He'll be taking your calls. It should be a fascinating discussion. Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. I know you've been looking forward to talking to him. You've seen the movie. You know your business. You know how Wall Street works. You know all about capitalism. Anything -- did he say anything to you that surprised you, stood out? Did you find yourself getting into a debate with him, which always can be very interesting?

LISOVICZ: My role really isn't to debate him. I'm not a spokesman for Wall Street. I'm a reporter. So, I found it interesting because one of the few warm and fuzzy moments in the movie is about his own childhood. It's quite touching that Michael Moore's father was a worker at GM, as many people know. He made a decent pay with decent benefits. His mom didn't have to work if she didn't want to. It was quite an idyllic life.

And I think that many people agree that it's a lot different for the middle class these days. And I asked him, didn't capitalism help create the middle class that enabled you to have such a wonderful life? And he vehemently disagreed. He said, no, it was the unions that created the middle class. And the demise of the unions are the reasons why middle class has the problems that it does, struggling to make a living, struggling to have a decent retirement. It was -- it's an interesting discussion, needless to say.

PHILLIPS: Yes. I guess everything with Michael Moore usually turns into a debate. I shouldn't have put you on the spot there.

LISOVICZ: No, he welcomed it. And it was really kind of funny because he's one of the most known filmmakers in America, he's one of the most recognizable. So there he is with his baseball cap and there's double-decker buses going by and tourists from all nationalities are calling out his name. It was really a circus, but then again, this is a guy who likes to do stunts.

PHILLIPS: Great job. Thanks, Susan. I know you hustled back to bring that back to us. Sure appreciate it.

LISOVICZ: You're welcome.

PHILLIPS: Let's get back to those three Afghan nationals accused of lying to investigators about an alleged terror plot. Two suspects, an airport shuttle driver and his father due in court next hour in Denver. A third man, a Muslim cleric, was supposed to go before a federal judge in New York just moments ago. CNN's Feb Feyerick can tell us what happened just a little while ago. Deb?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, It was very brief. Iman Ahmad Afzali entered the court, he spotted some family sitting in the first row and smiled to them. Later blowing kisses in their direction. About four family members there representing him in that courtroom. It was a very brief hearing.

The judge effectively reading the charges against him. The charges included making false and fictitious statements to federal investigators. He didn't have to enter a plea. And prosecutors did ask that he be detained in a pre-agreed arrangement with Afzali's lawyer. The detention hearing was put off until Thursday.

A bail package will be presented, and at that time, prosecutors say they will present evidence which they obtained under a FISA warrant. That's a warrant that helps prosecutors and agents investigate potential crimes of terrorism. Again, Afzali is charged with lying to authorities who were investigating this plot to detonate bombs in the U.S., possibly against trains and subways. His lawyer earlier said that while he did speak to a Denver suspect, in fact, it's because authorities had asked him to reach out to the suspect.

And we see that -- actually some of the family right now leaving the courtroom. That's why a number of members of the media sort of running there. There's a woman who is wearing a head scarf as well as maybe close family, a brother and sister. I was sitting next to them in court. But they really didn't say very much.

Again, very high interest in all of this. But again, the detention hearing will be put off until Thursday. But the lawyers said, you know, authorities asked the imam to reach out to the Denver suspect. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON KUBY, AFZALI'S ATTORNEY: The authorities generally requested that the imam find out, anyway he can where Zazi is, where he's been, where he's going and what he is up to. That's what they wanted to know. And that makes sense because they thought he was coming to New York for the purpose of carrying out a terrorist attack.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: Now, authorities have said that, in fact, they believe that the imam was tipping off the suspects in Denver, that he had said to them that authorities had been in touch with him and that he had asked whether in fact there was any evidence in the car that was confiscated and searched by agents from the joint terrorism task force. That where we are right now. Back to you, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Deb. We'll keep following it. Thanks so much.

Well is a Marine hero really a hokester? Prosecutor in his court martial say, yes, sir. An incredible "What the..." next.

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PHILLIPS: Semper fi, no? Semper fake. This story is just plain wrong. Get this: a U.S. Marine stands accused of making up combat heroics and accepting perks meant for real wounded warriors.

Listen to this. Sergeant David Butwah is being court-martialed next month. Prosecutors say he wore unauthorized medals, accepted VIP invites meant for wounded troops and faked post-traumatic stress disorder. What an insult to those who do suffer PTSD, earn real medals and truly save lives. Now, Butwah did serve six years in Okinawa and three more at Quantico, Virginia, but allegedly claimed combat experience and injuries in Afghanistan. Sergeant Butwah denies the allegations. He faces more than 30 years in prison.

Many parts of the Southeast are under assault today from unrelenting torrential rains. Firefighters in Atlanta rescued dozens of people this weekend from flooded streets and homes. Others were not so lucky. One person is presumed drowned by flash flooding in Chattanooga. Two others were killed when the storm swept their vehicles off the road in metro Atlanta. Here's our meteorologist, Jacqui Jeras.

JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: We're just north of the downtown area where the Peachtree Creek has risen out of its banks. Heavy rain fell all night long. So, it was a very rapid rise and caught these folks off guard. You can see a car which tried to drive through the flooded streets and got stuck. The people were able to get out, so nobody was injured in this situation.

Quite a few homes are being threatened at this time as well. You can see the water like a river through their front areas. Also, across the driveways cutting these people off from being able to get out. If the creek continues to rise, we could see the water start to move into the homes.

And look at how fast the water is moving, a good example of just how six inches of water can knock you off your feet. So, a lot of dangers. Something else that's starting to happen, take a look over there. You can see a tree which has been downed. This isn't from the strong winds. What's going on is that the ground is so saturated from seven consecutive days of measurable rainfall here that the tree limbs and the root systems are being weakened, and trees are starting to fall down. We'll be concerned about power outages and more downed trees in the upcoming days.

Now, it's not just people. It's also animals. This is an equestrian center on the other side of the street here. And there, you can see this entire field covered in water several feet deep. The horses were able to get out.

This is the worst flooding this neighborhood has seen in five years. Last time they saw the water this high was during Hurricane Ivan, when that storm moved through. Unfortunately, there's more rain is in the forecast.

I'm meteorologist Jacqui Jeras, reporting from Atlanta.

PHILLIPS: All right, coming up next, our Rick Sanchez there in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Rick, I know you will be talking about the weather conditions. What else?