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Deadly Flooding in the South; Is U.S. Relationship with World Changing?; Senate Committee Works on Baucus Health Plan; Gun Advocates Fear Laws Will Change; Woman Implanted with Wrong Embryo; Kidnapping Suspect Claimed to Invent Thought Communication Device

Aired September 22, 2009 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Tony, thanks so much.

We're pushing forward, though a once-in-a-lifetime disaster, once too many for the victims of the devastating flooding in Georgia. Neighboring states, not even theme parks are safe.

Plus, train stations, stadiums, hotels. The fed urge police to step up security at soft targets of high interest to terrorists.

And he may be ousted, but the ex-president of Honduras is back, sort of. And the new regime is not happy. We're pushing forward on the standoff.

Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips, live at the CNN headquarters in Atlanta. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Virtually unprecedented flood. Most people in the southeast have never seen anything like this. At least seven people, including a 2- year-old boy, swept to their deaths in Georgia. Another person missing and presumed dead in Tennessee. Seventeen Georgia counties now under a state of emergency.

Governor Sonny Perdue says he'll ask President Obama to declare the state a federal disaster area.

Now, take a look at this. The Six Flags amusement park just west of Atlanta swamped by high water. Roller coasters, by the way, several stories high. Nearly two feet of rain since last week, and hundreds of homes and businesses are still underwater.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the highest water that I've seen. And I've been living around here all my life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think it's really set in that this is real. This is -- we're flooded out. We don't have a home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Georgia's not alone. Four other states -- Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, and North Carolina -- also seeing record-setting floods.

CNN's Susan Hendricks live now from one of the hardest-hit areas in Atlanta.

Susan, describe it to us.

SUSAN HENDRICKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.

As you said, a mass amount of rain in a short amount of time. And behind me is the aftermath. You see the sign here. It says "No Parking." Now it's really a docking station for a lot of the residents here. We've seen all morning going in to get their belongings from what is left of their homes.

A real mess. And it happened so fast. That is what we keep hearing. It happened within 24 hours. All of a sudden their homes completely engulfed in water.

I spoke to a young gentleman. He was visiting from California, visiting his mom and dad. He didn't know that he would come home to this. He said he had a close call, if you follow me, with these power lines. He heard a crackle and a pop, and then he tried to swim to go save his mother. That was the goal. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We kind of cruised in, got about waist high, and got into my mom's house. She was trapped upstairs with the dogs, had already taken the first floor of our house. From that point we just started moving, you know, any valuables we had, grandmother's old paintings, furniture, pictures and stuff like that, and then up to the top floor.

And as we're moving it, the water was rising at a very fast pace. A lot of the stuff that my parents had moved to already to stay above where they thought the water would reach, it was going to reach it regardless. So we were hustling, and by the time we actually left the house, we actually had to swim out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENDRICKS: Luckily, his family is OK. I spoke to him just moments ago. He did get his mom and father out of the house. They're staying at relatives'.

Also a shopping mall nearby here, completely under water. A famous restaurant called Canoe in the area, completely under water.

And I want to take you back over here. This used to be, in this neighborhood, a playground for kids. A fun place to come to go swimming. Now, again, completely engulfed in water. Only took 24 hours for all of this to happen.

And, again, Kyra, I keep hearing from residents here saying, "You know what? We lived through this five years ago with Hurricane Ivan, and this is so much worse than that."

Back to you.

PHILLIPS: Wow, always a positive attitude. Susan, thanks.

Western North Carolina hasn't received flooding like this since the remnants of hurricanes Frances and Ivan five years ago. Right now, floodwaters cover parts of 20 counties. Roads and highways closed. Schools have canceled classes, and shelters are open for people forced from their homes.

Then in Chattanooga, Tennessee, a $5 bet turned into a tragedy. Witnesses say that a 46-year-old man, Sylvester Kitchens, bragged that he could swim a flooded storm ditch. Well, after betting onlookers -- betting onlookers, rather, that he could do it, Kitchens jumped in and was swept into an underground culvert. He's presumed drowned. Searchers now still looking for his body.

Chad Myers tracking the deadly flooding for us in the CNN weather center.

Boy, Chad, it's been quite a couple of days.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: It has. And I think the extent, all the way from basically North Carolina, into Tennessee, around Chattanooga, around Atlanta, around Macon, all these flood warnings. West of Montgomery, south of Columbus and north of Jackson, back all the way to the Arklatex (ph), all of those light areas and then back up here in Arkansas as well, all of those areas flood warnings. All of the dark green, flood watches, which means anything could happen at any time, because water can go up and go down so very quickly.

Here's a map. And I know it's a raw map. And it's not very pretty, but it tells what I think is the most important part about flash flooding. This is Soap Creek in Marietta, and this right here would be flood stage. Right there. The rain came. The water went up. The rain stopped. The water went down. Up, down, up, well above flood stage. And then now down so very quickly, the water went from 18 feet down to 4 feet in less than 4 hours, and now it is flat again.

That is the -- that is the perfect example of flash flooding and how, if it happens in the middle of the night, it can be so incredibly, incredibly dangerous, because when you wake up, you don't even know that water's out there, especially if you go to work before it gets light.

Rain showers will continue, although I believe, Kyra, I believe now that if we have more flooding, more extensive flooding, it will be exacerbated back out here, back to the west of Atlanta, into these areas that either have flood watches or flood warnings. Atlanta in the clear with sought much more rainfall to come in the next three or four days.

PHILLIPS: OK. Chad, we'll be talking a lot today. Thanks so much.

MYERS: You're welcome.

PHILLIPS: Pushing forward now on the hunt for possible terrorists here at home. Sources tell CNN investigators are focusing on about 12 more suspects in connection with an alleged plot to bomb targets in New York and elsewhere. There's also a new nationwide warning to police about terrorists eyeing soft targets like stadium and hotels.

CNN's Deb Feyerick joins us with from New York with the latest.

Deb, what can you tell us about the additional people now being tracked down?

DEB FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we're being told is that these people have some connection, either to the Denver suspect who is currently in custody or to the New York imam.

Now, we have learned that the Joint Terrorism Task Force is looking for a dozen more people connected to that terror plot to detonate bombs in the U.S., most likely on subways and trains.

A manager at a storage facility in Queens said investigators questioned him several days ago, showing him pictures, one of which he later recognized the New York imam under investigation.

Now, in addition today, as you mentioned, the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security reminding police across the country that hotels, sports stadiums, entertainment venues may also be potential terror targets. So, everyone should be on alert.

An earlier advisory did alert police nationwide to the possibility that homemade peroxide-based explosives may be used in terror attacks. They also alerted them as to what to look for.

So, where do we all stand in this, Kyra? Well, you've got two men, one in New York, another in Denver. They remain in custody on charges of lying to investigators. The father of one of those men will be released on $50,000 bail. He'll be put on home confinement with an electronic bracelet.

Among the strongest leads, we're told, according to a variety of law enforcement sources, a computer file belonging to the Denver suspect, Najibullah Zazi, with handwritten notes on how to make and detonate a bomb.

You can see him there, being taken into custody. Also video of Grand Central Terminal in New York, backpacks allegedly discovered in one of the New York apartments raided next week, and attempts by a group of Afghan men in Queens to rent a U-Haul truck with cash and no identification.

U-Haul employees identified one of the men as Ahmad Afzali, that New York Imam who authorities believe tipped off Zazi, telling him he was under surveillance.

Now, the imam's lawyer says that's just not true. But the imam is in jail, pending a detention hearing on charges of lying to investigators.

So that's where we are right now. Those 12 men, as you can imagine, the JTTF just fanning out across Queens, trying to track down every possible lead and do what they normally do in this and run everything to the ground -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And so Deb, I don't know if your sources have been able to tell you this or not, but when the story first break [SIC], there were security analysts saying, wow, this could have been another 9/11-type plot situation. It could have been really bad, but it looks like they got, you know, the potential suspects, and this could all come to a close.

But now we're hearing about more people. Is it possible that this could be much bigger than initially thought? I mean, could this span to other states and other parts of a possible terror cell?

FEYERICK: We were hearing rumors about that yesterday, that it possibly could expand to other cities, but, again, we've not been able to confirm that, so we're being very cautious on the reporting as far as that goes.

But in terms of the scope of this attack, authorities do believe that it would have been on the same grandeur as 9/11, possibly not a 9/11 but on the same scope. What they're sort of referencing much more often is that it could have been like a Madrid train-style bombing. That's why they talk about the homemade peroxide explosives. And they want people, for example, to really be on the lookout.

But, you know, they've got to go to all these places: to storage facilities where things may be stored, for example. They go to different pharmacies, different Home Depot places, things like that, just to see whether sort of larger-than-normal purchases have been made.

PHILLIPS: We'll keep following the investigation with you, Deb, thanks.

Chaos in Honduras today. Police actually fired tear gas and water cannons at thousands of supporters of ousted president, Manuel Zelaya. Zelaya's been holed up in the Brazilian embassy since slipping back into the country yesterday. He received a rousing welcome from supporters. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Zelaya's surprise return may be in time to grab the attention of the world leaders gathering at the U.N. in New York this week. The de facto government's been under intense international pressure to put Zelaya back in power. So far, they are still refusing, and right now they're demanding Brazil hand over Zelaya for arrest, accusing him of violating Honduras' constitution.

Zelaya was kicked out in a coup in June. It's that time of year, the leaders of the world thrown together at the U.N. General Assembly. We're going to help you sort it out, friend from foe.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: From the ends of the earth, presidents and prime ministers have come to Manhattan to talk about their problems at the U.N. General Assembly. It's an annual marathon of speeches and meetings, with a focus this year on trade and recession, regional conflicts, nuclear weapons, and President Obama's first U.N. address, climate change.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I will work with my colleagues at the G-20 to phase out fossil fuel subsidies so that we can better address our climate challenge. And already we know that the recent drop in overall U.S. emissions is due in part to steps that promote greater efficiency and greater use of renewable energy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: After his climate speech, Mr. Obama met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, then with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, then with Netanyahu and Abbas. It's the first time that those two have met since Netanyahu was elected in March.

That goal is to restart peace talks which have been stalled over Netanyahu's refusal to stop building settlements in the West Bank. Mr. Obama is urging both sides to get back and work together.

Well, friend or foe? Ally or enemy? A cast of international characters playing out critical scenes at the U.N., and with a new president and a very ambitious agenda, is America's relationship with the world changing? Well, we brought in Jamie Rubin, former assistant secretary of the state during the Clinton administration, to try and sort it all out.

We're going to hit six of the big players, Jamie. We're going to start with this hour, talking about three of those individuals. Let's get right down to it.

Hugo Chavez, Venezuela, just to remind people of his -- I guess you could say, interesting character. Let's take a listen to this from a meeting back in 2006.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUGO CHAVEZ, PRESIDENT OF VENEZUELA (through translator): Yesterday the devil came here. And it smells of sulfur still today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Jamie, I don't know if you remember that...

JAMIE RUBIN, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: I do.

PHILLIPS: ... but it sort of had all -- you remember he was talking about President Bush at that time and, you know, obviously a foe of the Bush administration. Now the question is, how will this relationship play out with President Obama? Already a lot of controversy around the photo-op and the handshake.

RUBIN: Oh, yes. Hugo Chavez's moment that you just played when he essentially called President Bush the devil may have been the high point of Venezuela's anti-American antics that he's put forward.

With President Obama now representing the United States, I think it's a lot harder for people like Hugo Chavez to demonize the United States. And not only that, you know, he kind of hopes, I guess -- Hugo Chavez keeps running up to him, giving him books. He did in Miami and hoping to get his picture taken with Obama. I think he's -- President Obama has defanged this anti-American foe.

Chavez has really presented himself and defined himself in opposition to America, and he's kind of lost right now with -- without anyone to hate.

PHILLIPS: So, what's in it for us, a relationship with Hugo Chavez? I mean, oil is an obvious an answer. I mean, the U.S. depends on Venezuela for its oil. Is that the sole reason?

RUBIN: Well, I would say two things. Oil is certainly one of them. We do get a lot of oil from Venezuela.

The other thing is that all of Latin America has become Democratic over the years. And that has been a matter of security for the United States. You know, it's not so long ago we used to worry about Honduras and Nicaragua and El Salvador, revolutions there and war that took place there that was right on our doorstep. And keeping that part of the world relatively secure and stable and Democratic, and, therefore, peaceful, is a long-term interest to the United States.

Chavez has tended to help those who would undo that, like the FARC in Colombia, who are terrorist rebels who pursue narcotrafficking. So, he tends to support the bad guys, and therefore, when he gets weaker, we get -- we're better off.

PHILLIPS: Which leads me to the next interesting character, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Interesting, I guess, is putting it mildly. I mean, this is someone that denies the Holocaust, still talks about cutting off the hands of the aggressors. But this is also somebody that the United States continues to talk about.

Will he ever be a friend? And how crucial is that?

RUBIN: Well, I think it's interesting that we're talking about both Chavez and Ahmadinejad in a row, because there's a -- a parallel there.

After the deeply flawed election in Iran earlier this year, and the violence that occurred when the government cracked down on peaceful protesters, not too many people around the world, even those who a year or two ago might have wanted to stand next to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in his tirades against the west and the United States, I don't think he's going to find himself much support in the Arab world, in the third world in general.

And so I think we'll see, through the protests outside the United Nations today and tomorrow, that these Third World figures who defined themselves in opposition to America suddenly don't have as much to hang on to when you have a friendly face like President Obama, who they are anxious to talk to, anxious to work with.

And President Obama, instead of saying no says, sure, if we've got something to talk about, we'll talk about it. And that has defanged their opposition.

PHILLIPS: All right, Jamie, let's go ahead and move on to China. Obviously, another big talker and the president, Hu Jintao. Obviously, trade a big issue here. But many critics have said, "Hey, look, it's coming at our expense. You know, they're becoming an economic superpower, and it's just putting us more and more into trouble."

RUBIN: Well, there is an issue here, and that is that the United States and China are now the world's great economic powers. And how our relationship goes, whether it's protectionist, whether it's free trade, whether we can work with China on subjects like North Korea's nuclear weapons or Iran's nuclear weapons, where we need China's vote in the Security Council to put potential economic sanctions on Iran.

The U.S./China relationship matters across the board. On climate change, if you look at the other country whose future will determine whether we live in a world with massive climate change or not, it's China, with a billion people and their growing industrialization.

So, whether it's global climate change or terrorism or crucial issues like trade, how goes the U.S./China relationship determines the safety, security, and prosperity of our world.

PHILLIPS: Jamie Rubin, we're going to talk again next hour. Three more leaders meeting with the president. We'll talk more in- depth. Thanks, Jamie.

RUBIN: You're welcome.

(MUSIC: "Wild Thing")

PHILLIPS: Oh, my God. You have to see this to believe this. Please, Hammer, don't hurt him, or yourself. A "Dancing with the Stars" debut, long-awaited and much anticipated on Capitol Hill. You'll see Tom DeLay in much more action, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: The death toll from widespread flooding in Georgia now stands at seven. Days of heavy rain have left entire neighborhoods almost completely underwater. Governor Sonny Perdue has urged folks to stay off the roads.

And in Tennessee a man is missing and presumed dead after betting people he could swim through a flooded ditch.

First-degree murder charges filed against a Florida man who fled to Haiti after his wife and five children were found dead. Mesac Damas is now under arrest in Haiti. Florida authorities have asked for extradition. They say there was a history of abuse between that couple.

Senator Max Baucus getting a second opinion -- heck, a 22nd opinion -- on that big health-care proposal. The Senate Finance Committee sitting down today to consider hundreds of proposed amendments to Chairman Baucus' plan. And committee members previewed their positions in opening remarks this morning.

Some very strong language from minority whip, Jon Kyl, who called the proposal, quote, "a stunning assault on liberty."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JON KYL (R-AZ), MINORITY WHIP: This bill increases costs. It doesn't lower them. The increased spending requires more offsets, which requires more taxes, which are passed on to the very people we're trying to help, and the spiral continues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: And our congressional correspondent, Brianna Keilar, continues to watch the action there on Capitol Hill.

So, Brianna, what have they done so far?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, so far it's been opening statements. And, yes, there are 23 members of this committee. As you can see, not a lot going on behind me.

They're on a break for lunch. They're going to be back here in about an hour to keep working on these amendments. But we're expecting to hear some changes even before this committee starts going through its amendments -- and as you said, there are more than 500 of them.

We're expecting Senator Max Baucus, the head of this committee, to announce some changes that he's making, really answering the concerns of many Democrats, as well as a key Republican, Senator Olympia Snowe of Maine, on the issue of affordability. Making Americans pay for health insurance, but maybe it's not affordable enough for them. That's been the concern of these Democrats and Olympia Snowe.

And so we've learned here in this 36 pages of changes that are going to be announced here after the lunch break, that it will include an increase in those subsidies to low-income and middle-class Americans, to help them pay for insurance. We're talking $50 billion more in subsidies. Also decreasing the penalties that folks who decide they're not going to get health insurance have to pay. Before, for a family of four, it could have been as much as $3,800 a year in penalties. It's going to be reduced, according to these changes from Senator Baucus' office, to as much as but not more than $1,900 for a family of four over the course of a year. And also taxing fewer of those Cadillac plans, Kyra.

So, that's what we have in store for us, and then eventually, they'll be getting to amendments after that, probably this afternoon, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, well, you bring up the amendments coming up next. Can you give an example of what they have to go through?

KEILAR: Well, yes, here is all 564.

PHILLIPS: And you've read every page, right, Brianna?

KEILAR: Oh, yes. Every page. No, you know, we have been poring through these, I know.

But you know, one example of an amendment that we can tell you about is -- and this is one that, really, that kind of shows you some of the partisan element to this. This is an amendment by Senator John Ensign of Nevada. And what he has proposed -- and I'm sure he has the backing of some Republicans on this -- is changing the word "fee" to "tax."

There are about $100 billion in fees in this plan by Senator Baucus that are going to go to insurers, medical device manufacturers, the like, and the Republicans, including Senator Ensign, want it to say "tax." Every place where you see "fee," they want to it say" tax." They say this is going to trickle down to Americans.

But Democrats and Senator Baucus says this is something that the industry is going to have to pay for to help foot the price tag here, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, on a little side note, have you danced with Tom DeLay lately?

KEILAR: No, but I sure watched last night. I'll tell you. He's pretty good, right?

PHILLIPS: You think so?

KEILAR: I thought so.

PHILLIPS: All right, let's give our viewers a chance to see him in action. I don't know. We had a little mixed review here, Brianna.

Congressman Tom DeLay waltzed off of Capitol Hill back in 2006. Brianna covered him on the Hill. You know, he had a lot of, you know, ethics questions about his career. Well, this is how you're used to seeing the Texas Republican, a.k.a., the Hammer. You're actually looking at video of his farewell address.

Well, his departure sure shook things up, but nothing like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC: "WILD THING")

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Wow. Talk about another side to Tom DeLay. The Hammer was a dancing machine last night on "Dancing with the Stars." He and his partner got instructions to perform a sexy and sassy salsa. Sassy? Sure, why not. Sexy? I'll defer to you guys on that one.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, if it's any consolation, and it's probably not, experts say that the floods hat have swamped highways and neighborhoods in Georgia and killed at least seven people are a once- in-a-century event. Here in Atlanta, the sun has peeked out for the first time in days, but more rain is forecast before rivers and creeks and ponds get back into their banks. Georgia's governor has declared states of emergency in 17 counties and is asking President Obama for a federal disaster declaration. All of this in a state that just closed the books on a two-year drought.

Chad Myers tracking the deadly flooding for us at the CNN weather center. Chad, still very busy.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: A lot of people have asked me, Kyra, how did this happen? And let's think of the jet stream as a river. In fact, this is the Chattahoochee River. The flow of the river down the middle nice and fast. And if a leaf falls in the river it will go down the river just as quickly as the river's flowing.

But if a leaf falls over here, on the side of the river, it's not in the flow. It may just spin around and around and around in a little eddy over there. That's exactly what happened to our weather. And a low-pressure system that is right here over parts of the Midwest on Monday and on Tuesday and on Saturday and Sunday of last week, finally pushing out a little bit.

But it spun around in the middle part of the country for seven solid days. And finally yesterday and the day after, it just went crazy with rain showers here in Atlanta and all the way back to the west.

We may see it happen again because another system is setting up to the west, but so far not happening at this point in time. Jacqui Jeras is with us right now. All the iReports that we've been getting, Jacqui, they are in some places better than pictures we can take.

JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Absolutely. And just incredible, Chad. I can't remember the last single event that we've had like this where we've had so many compelling pictures. And the stories that people have to tell to go along with them, just amazing. Let's go ahead and start out with the one that just gripped me when I saw these pictures. This is from Pamela Smart of Atlanta, Georgia. These horses got blocked off by the water when the Nancy Creek overflowed its banks. And there you see Beth Thompson (ph), who literally jumped in the water to help move them to higher ground.

She said it took about half an hour, because the horses were frightened and cold. But all three, that would be the two horses and Beth, made to it safety. So, imagine the love that that woman must have for those horses. So, it's not just people. The animals being impacted as well.

All right, this one from Jeff Watson. This is the I-75/I-85 connector in downtown, where tons of people drive this each day. He took those photos from the apartment building. This is from David Fortune. He got the same thing on the ground. And there you can see cars which were stalled out in those high waters. Lots of emergency vehicles coming through here to try and help those people get on out.

Well, people helping people is the story being told from iReporter Daniel Elia. This was in Snellville, Georgia. About 50 houses were blocked from the water from the Yellow River here. One neighbor got out their canoe and started getting people out. Daniel said that he was amazed by the kindness of folks helping out other people.

In Dunwoody, Georgia, a tree fell on a house. This photo snapped by Keith Aitken. He said this happened in the middle of the night. That's actually the garage, not the house. And he said there was no flooding in the area. So, this is an example of how the ground can get so saturated that root systems in the trees can get loose and topple over. I'm worried we're going to see more pictures like this one in the weeks to come.

Kennesaw, Georgia, now, we're going to. Jason Jones took this picture. The entrance to his neighborhood was cut off by water. He turned around for a second to grab his camera and then snapped this picture where a woman who was being helped from her car that stalled out in the water. Everybody was OK. Jason says he and the kids are stuck in the neighborhood and that the water was inching up towards the back of his house.

And last, but not least, a little bit of humor to show you there. No big surprise that the beach bash was canceled, huh? this was from Darwin Yo in Lawrenceville, Georgia. He shot this video when he went to go pick up a co-worker from her subdivision that was blocked off by the floodwaters.

So, incredible pictures. I invite you to go to ireport.com and check them out. There is a plethora of videos and stories to tell along there. And Kyra, we want to thank our iReporters for submitting all those videos. And keep them on coming. We've got more weather happening out west.

PHILLIPS: That's true because we have so many of our folks out there trying to cover it. But these are the people that are seeing it firsthand, and it puts everything in perspective.

Thanks, Jacqui.

JERAS: Sure.

PHILLIPS: Well, gun control is pretty much the definition of a hot-button issue in America. And passions are running even hotter lately.

Our Carol Costello shoots for some insight in this report for her "Mad As Hell" series.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, gun advocates who believe all kinds of guns, even AK-47s, ought to be legal are still fighting mad, even though President Obama hasn't made any significant move to ban guns of any kind. And gun control advocates are losing ground because of it.

So, is there any middle ground? I talked to both sides.

(voice-over): Dante Barksdale runs on faith.

DANTE BARKSDALE, "SAFE STREETS" BALTIMORE: I'm going to just take a little walk. You want to walk with me?

COSTELLO: An ex-con, he's fighting to end gun violence. It's not easy. Last week six people were gunned down in Baltimore. There have been more than 300 shootings in the city this year.

COSTELLO (on camera): We like our guns in America. We love our guns in America, don't we?

BARKSDALE: In the urban parts of, you know, the city, you know, they tell us, you know, the biggest guy, the guy who has the most people afraid of him, the guy with the biggest gun, this is what a man is.

Safe Streets -- we're all we got.

COSTELLO: Barksdale works with Safe Streets, which is aimed at reducing gun violence among 15 to 24-year-olds in Baltimore.

Guns are a part of life in rural America, too, but the aim here -- to keep them and use them. They put food on the table and make many feel safe.

COSTELLO (on camera): There are some people who say that owning a gun is a God-given right. Do you consider it to be that?

IRWIN POLANSKY, PENNSYLVANIA GUN OWNER: Yes.

COSTELLO: Why?

POLANSKY: Because I need to protect myself. COSTELLO: From?

POLANSKY: From the bad guys, or whoever, or an animal.

BARKSDALE: What we deal with in the urban part of the communities is that people use guns to resolve their problems, and that this is not normal.

COSTELLO (voice-over): Two very different viewpoints reflecting a debate in America that seems to have become polarized.

TOM GLASS, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: People that might otherwise have been in the middle about gun control, gun liberties, have been pushed to polar extremes.

COSTELLO: And in dollar terms, the debate over guns appears, well, uneven. According to the most recent available tax return, the National Rifle Association took in more than $332 million in revenue in 2007. The Brady Center/Brady Campaign, the largest gun control lobbying groups, pulled in just over $6 million in 2008.

It all depends on where you're coming from.

(on camera): Do you think that you'd feel differently about guns if you lived in a high crime area?

POLANSKY: No.

COSTELLO: Really?

POLANSKY: I wouldn't feel any different.

COSTELLO: You really wouldn't?

POLANSKY: I might even buy more guns.

(LAUGHTER)

Or I might buy an AK-47 just to -- so I'm not outgunned. But no, I wouldn't feel any different.

BARKSDALE: There are people who use guns, you know what I'm saying, to hunt, to do whatever they do. But in my neighborhood, guns are used to resolve conflict.

There ain't going to be no killings in east Baltimore.

COSTELLO: That's not to say everyone in rural America thinks anybody should be able to buy weapons like AK-47s or that urban America wants to ban hunting rifles. It largely does not.

But the more moderate voices on this issue have been largely silenced by the fear that the government will take all gun rights away -- Kyra.

(END VIDEOTAPE) PHILLIPS: Carol Costello, thanks so much.

Well, you can catch the rest of Carol's "Mad As Hell" series all this week on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING." Wake up with them at 6:00 a.m. Eastern.

It's the kind of mistake that can tear your heart out. An Ohio woman was given the wrong embryo. She's now pregnant. So, what is she going to do with the baby?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Clashes in the streets of the Honduran capital today outside the Brazilian Embassy. Ousted Honduran President Manuel Zelaya remains holed up in the embassy since he returned home yesterday. Police are using tear gas to break up demonstrations by Zelaya's supporters. Thousands of them defied curfews celebrating his secret return.

The investigation into an alleged terror plot in the U.S. is expanding. One of three men accused in the alleged bomb plot, Mohammed Wali Zazi, is being released on $50,000 bond. He's the father of Najibullah Zazi, who is the central figure in this case. Sources now tell us investigators are searching for other suspects, and more arrests are expected.

For a woman undergoing in vitro fertilization, trying to conceive, it's the best news you can hear: You're pregnant. But for an Ohio woman, the news came with a bitter twist.

CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joining us now with what happened. I'll tell you what, I mean, to go through fertility and desperately want to get pregnant and then find out it's not even your embryo.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, exactly. And that's what happened to Carolyn and Sean Savage. They're an Ohio couple that have been trying for ten years to get pregnant. And so, when the call came in that she was pregnant, actually Sean was the one who took the call, and he then had to call his wife and tell him (ph) what had happened.

So, what had happened was that they transferred the wrong embryo. They took an embryo from another couple and put it inside her womb. Now, "AMERICAN MORNING:" -- on "AMERICAN MORNING" earlier today, the savages spoke with CNN, and here's what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAROLYN SAVAGE, HAD WRONG EMBRYO IMPLANTED: It was just a very shocking moment. We -- I couldn't even comprehend what he was saying. I know I was kind of yelling at him, asking him if he was joking. Clearly, his physical demeanor indicated that there was no joke about the news he was delivering to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COHEN: You can't really tell in that video, but Carolyn is now 35 weeks pregnant, which means that she is due in the next month.

PHILLIPS: So, what are they going to do? Who gets the baby?

COHEN: You know, they thought about it, and they're giving that baby back to its DNA parents. They said that is he right thing to do. What they've done is, they have actually invited the DNA parents into the hospital. They will be right there. They will hand that baby right over.

This is actually an amicable ending, compared to what happened in 1999. There was a similar situation. In that case, Kyra, the parents went to court. Both of them thought that it was their baby. And the DNA parents won in that case.

PHILLIPS: And I don't know if you know the answer to this or not, but I'm dying to know this. Will they try it again with their embryos. Will they try to work out a deal with this fertility clinic? Or are they just going to forget it altogether? I mean, do we even know that yet?

COHEN: You know, it's an interesting questions. I don't think we know for sure exactly what they were going to do. We do know they already have three children. So, I think that's an important thing to know. I'm sure that will figure...

PHILLIPS: OK. It's not like this is going to be their first child.

COHEN: Correct. Correct.

PHILLIPS: OK. All right. Got it.

COHEN: They have three children already. Right.

PHILLIPS: Wow. OK, so, how often does this happen? I mean, I've never heard of this before, and we're constantly covering this sort of stuff in the news.

COHEN: Right, exactly. You certainly don't hear about this much. We asked their lawyer how many times this has happened, and he said that he only knows of these two cases, the case now and also the case in 1999. And when you consider that every year in the United States, 100,000 embryos are transferred from lab to a mom, I mean, still, it's not good. But out of 100,000, two that we know about in the past ten years, I think it's important to sort of keep it in some context.

PHILLIPS: Now, we haven't heard from the couple that's going to receive the baby yet, right?

COHEN: No.

PHILLIPS: Boy, I'm so interested to hear what they have to say. Well, have they said anything about this couple being a part of this child's life?

COHEN: Well, you know, it's interesting, on "AMERICAN MORNING," they asked the Savages that. And what they said is, we will leave that up to the other family. If the DNA parents want the Savages involved in this baby's life, because she was the one who carried this baby for nine months, that would be great for them.

But they said it's really up to the other parents. I mean, they are really handing this child back to her genetic parents -- or his, I should say. It's a boy.

PHILLIPS: What a loving surrogate.

COHEN: Yes, loving surrogate. Right. That's exactly right.

PHILLIPS: We'll follow up. Thanks so much, Elizabeth.

COHEN: OK, thanks.

PHILLIPS: Well, I don't know if it was quite shock and awe. But a Florida homeowner sure startled a drunken intruder. Senior citizens fighting back, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, it wasn't your average home invasion, let's just put it that way. A 91-year-old Florida man was startled out of a sound sleep by his dog's ferocious barking. So, he grabbed his gun, called police and cornered the guy. And man, I'd pay money to have seen the dude's face. I'll just let our hero explain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT THOMPSON, FOUGHT OFF INTRUDER: The funny part is I guess my age and the fact that I didn't have any clothes on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Yes, that's right. Mr. Thompson was armed and clothesless. The World War II vet who has a Purple Heart, by the way, held the intruder at gunpoint in all his glory until the cops showed up. Unfortunately, no dash cam video on this one.

And a less spectacular but no less awesome show of force by a New Jersey man. The 88-year-old, also a World War II vet, fought off three robbers stealing a safe from his house. He says he got up from his motorized wheelchair and, quote, "ran like a devil, ready to fight, and did a job on him."

These stories just make me so happy.

Well, you know his face, the suspect in the Jaycee Dugard kidnapping, but what we're finding out about his mind -- ugh -- and what he told others about this black box. It may freak you out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PHILLIPS: As we dig deeper into the mindset of accused kidnapper and rape suspect Phillip Garrido, it just gets even stranger. And apparently, getting into his mind is easier than we thought. Garrido claims to have invented a device that lets you hear his thoughts. Yes, I warned you it was strange.

Our Dan Simon explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When the call came from out of the blue early last year, the man on the line identified himself as Phil Garrido. He was calling this man, a private investigator.

(on camera): What was he like in that time you spent with him?

RALPH HERNANDEZ, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, way much more different than what you're seeing on the latest news broadcasts. He was like you and I are right here. We're speaking normal, dressed normally, acting normally.

SIMON: Of course, we now know that when Garrido placed that phone call, 11-year-old Jaycee Dugard had been missing for 17 years. She was now 28, and Garrido had fathered two daughters with her, and they were living in secret behind his house.

So, why would Garrido be calling a P.I.? He needed help, he said, convincing people that he had an extraordinary invention.

HERNANDEZ: He had developed some or invented some device that would allow a person to speak without physically speaking and be heard by the listener.

(voice-over): People who know him say in recent years, Garrido had been talking more and more about God and the apocalypse. He demonstrated the device, a black box with headphones, to Tim Allen, a local businessman.

(on camera): He told you he was starting a new religion and had some revelation from God?

TIM ALLEN, GARRIDO ASSOCIATE: Yes. And then he also had a box. And when he first brought it in, he said this box, you can hear voices from the other side. You can hear people telling you how -- what's going to happen and what's going to -- what the future says.

SIMON (voice-over): This is it. Garrido's black box. Until now, only a handful of people have seen it. He became obsessed with his so-called invention.

(on camera): Basically just a black case with a handle. A couple of jacks. Very light.

(voice-over): It turns out just a few days before Garrido was arrested for his alleged crimes against Jaycee Dugard, he asked a friend to keep the box for him. His friend wants to remain anonymous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He plugged into it. He would give you a set of headphones, and he would have a set of headphones. And he would manipulate his hand basically over the top of the box, and it would have sound coming out of it, emitting sound like distortion noises like whales and all sorts of little interference noises. While he would move his lips and not speak but yet move his lips, and you would be able to hear his voice through the headphones.

SIMON (on camera): Did he ever do it on you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All the time.

SIMON: And what happened?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Notice we're smiling at one another.

SIMON: Yes.

(voice-over): Among those he asked to try his invention, we couldn't find one who took it seriously.

ALLEN: I didn't want to tell him, you're a kook, and you don't know what you're talking about. I just didn't want to say that to him.

SIMON: But Phil Garrido believed he was on a special mission from God. In this press release, he declared, "A Bay Area man has made a major discovery." In fact, he was talking about religion more and more obsessively. At this point, it was about two years before he would be arrested.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I had any idea that this was the type of a madman that we now know he is, he would never been anywhere in my inner circle.

SIMON: They all think of Garrido as a madman now -- his twisted double life, his black box, his voices and his growing fixation with religion. All of it would soon lead to a confrontation with the police in Berkeley and then an arrest. His biggest secret finally exposed -- the hidden compound and Jaycee Dugard found after 18 long years.

Dan Simon, CNN, Contra Costa County, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)