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Nancy Grace
Misty Croslin Skips Town After Argument
Aired September 22, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Satsuma, Florida. A 5- year-old little girl tucked into bed. Five hours later, she`s gone, vanished, the back door propped wide open. Daddy comes home from the night shift to find not a trace of little Haleigh.
Bombshell tonight. As we go to air, girlfriend turned new stepmother Misty Croslin, the last person to see Haleigh alive, skips town, Croslin packing up, clearing out of town after a bitter fight with Haleigh`s father, Ronald Cummings. This after Croslin`s brother thrown behind bars on a gun charge, leading to a break in the case. In a late-night jailhouse interrogation, we learn the brother finally confesses he goes to Haleigh`s house the night she goes missing, pounds on the door repeatedly, over and over. Nobody home.
Phone records confirm Ronald Cummings tries desperately to reach Croslin that night, calling at least 20 -- that`s right, two- zero, 20 times. No answer. Where -- where -- was girlfriend turned stepmother Misty Croslin during those crucial hours when Haleigh goes missing? Investigators now using GPS to track Croslin that night through her cell phone.
Police announce everything Croslin`s told them so far is, quote, "a farce." With cops honing in on Croslin, Croslin disappears. Investigators focusing on a heavily wooded area, and in the last 72 hours, draining a local pond in connection with Haleigh. As girlfriend turned stepmom Misty Croslin flunks another polygraph, tonight, where is Haleigh?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news. Baby-sitter Misty Cummings, the last person to see Haleigh alive, has left town, according to journalist Art Harris.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we need is for Misty to come down here and tell us the truth.
MISTY CROSLIN, HALEIGH`S BABY-SITTER/STEPMOTHER: I`m trying to do everything to find her. You know, I`m -- answer any questions I have to because I know I didn`t do anything to that little girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Harris reports Misty and Ron had a bitter fight, and she took off with a friend to the beach.
RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: My feelings are we need to find my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think Misty holds some information that could help you do that?
CUMMINGS: I don`t think Misty holds any information that`s going to find Haleigh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Misty`s attorney says she`s out of town, taking a few days off to seek a change of scenery and clear her head. Pressure from the investigation is mounting.
CROSLIN: If I had something to do with it, I knew where she was, we wouldn`t be sitting here today. We would have her. And I don`t. I don`t know where she is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Misty can relieve this pressure by telling her attorney that, you know, we need to go down to the sheriff`s office and really lay out in clear terms what I was doing from 8:00 PM until 3:00 AM.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, imagine your own early morning routine, heading out to meet your carpool to head to work. That`s just what happened to a dedicated mother of two, ages just 5 and 8. But when she exits her car in a public parking lot, a white male approaches her, stabs her in the torso, and then calmly gets back into his blue-green SUV and proceeds to run over her as she lies there, bleeding in the parking lot. Tonight, she is clinging to life. Do police have a suspect?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her hands looked very bloody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She did not appear to be moving.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are desperately searching for a suspect who stabbed a mother of two in the parking lot of a luxury New Jersey hotel, then ran her over with his car. Forty-six-year-old Laura Matosek was waiting to meet a co-worker to carpool to work Friday morning when witnesses say a man jumped out of a green or blue pick-up truck or SUV and stabbed Laura in the torso, then got back into his car and ran Laura over.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The hotel general manager says it was two guests who found 46-year-old Laura Matosek lying face down in a pool of blood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Laura suffered multiple knife wounds and broken bones. Police immediately began to search for Laura`s ex-husband, who voluntarily spoke with police for 12 hours Friday and Saturday. He has since been released and is not facing any charges.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He and Matosek were divorced two-and-a-half years ago, and prosecutors say Pelcak did have a restraining order against him that only recently expired.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was rushed by ambulance to a nearby hospital for multiple stab wounds and broken bones.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. As we go to air, girlfriend turned stepmother Misty Croslin, the last person to see Haleigh alive, disappears.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there finally a split between Ronald Cummings and his new bride, Misty?
CROSLIN: When I went to sleep, she was there. And then when I woke up, she was gone!
CUMMINGS: I`m not hiding anything for anybody. And if somebody has something to do with it, let them fry. So be it, whoever it might be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Journalist Art Harris is reporting sources tell him there was a bitter fight between Ron and Misty, so bad Misty`s lawyer says she`s left town. This just hours after Misty`s own brother tells police he doesn`t think anyone was home the night Haleigh vanished.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He demonstrated to us loudly and for a few seconds, and then he waited around, you know, to presumably see if someone was going to be roused, if they were sleeping or whatever. He tells us that he made a good effort to see if someone was home. Misty did not answer the door. The house was dark and quiet.
CROSLIN: I would have woke up if I heard any noise, and I didn`t hear anything at all. I mean, I was really exhausted that day, you know, really exhausted. And when I lay down, I guess, you know, I just -- I was out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That front door is all but 10 feet from the bedroom where Misty was sleeping with Haleigh and Junior that night. So if someone was whaling on the door, there`s no way she couldn`t have heard that whatsoever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It applies pressure in the area where pressure needs to be applied, and that`s on Misty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to our producer on the story from the very beginning, Marlaina Schiavo. Marlaina, what happened? Why did Misty Croslin skip town?
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, she is gone. She left town. Apparently, people saw Misty and Ronald having an argument over the weekend when all of this searching was going on, draining of the pond. There were a lot of tensions, so they were arguing. And all of a sudden, Misty`s nowhere to be found. She is no longer in Satsuma right now, and Ronald is not with her.
GRACE: To Art Harris, investigative journalist at Artharris.com. Art, what was the bitter argument about?
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Well, I can tell you that sources tell me that Ronald actually threw her clothes out, threw her out. And she was going down the road when he runs after her, apologizes, and brings her back. So it`s unclear what it was about, Nancy, but it was not pretty.
GRACE: Let`s look at the timing, Art Harris. What was happening at the time they had the bitter feud? Was that when the pond was being drained? What was happening?
HARRIS: Yes. It was around that time, Nancy. A lot of uncertainty, a lot of rumors about the pond, rumors that Haleigh`s body was found, rumors that they found a car in the pond, none of it true. But everyone was desperate for information, so much so that Ronald`s grandmother actually went to the scene to ask what was happening. And that`s how she found out.
GRACE: To T.J. Hart, news director at WSKY 97.3 FM. T.J., do we have any idea what the big argument was about before Misty Croslin skips town?
T.J. HART, WSKY 97.3 FM (via telephone): Once again, a lot of things factored into it, a lot of raw nerves, a lot of tensions at the time. And also a little bit of knowledge has leaked out about the conversation that was held between detectives and Tommy Croslin in the jailhouse, as well. So that may have been a factor in the conversation.
GRACE: Like what? What, T.J.? What else have you learned? Everybody, T.J. Hart with WSKY is referring to Misty Croslin`s brother, who was taken into custody. He`s thrown behind bars over a gun charge.
HART: Sure.
GRACE: Now, unusually, the bond for the gun charge is $50,000. They`re keeping him behind bars. They interrogated him in the late night hours about Haleigh`s disappearance. What more have you learned, T.J.?
HART: OK. What happened was Ronald had called him because he could not get any calls through to Misty that night. At least 20 times, he tried to call or to text. So he calls down to the Croslin house. He asks Tommy to go check on the house to see if Misty`s at home and take a check down there. So he goes down there and he knocks on the door.
Now, Major Bowling with the Putnam County sheriff`s office, said that he showed them, he demonstrated how hard he banged on the door. And then he told him that he stayed in the area waiting for Misty to either answer the door, or in his words, to even come home.
Now, Hank Croslin, Jr., says that after some time passed, he just gave up. He assumed that she wasn`t home. Now, originally, he had just stopped short of that. He`s now said she wasn`t home.
Now, we believe that releasing some of this information, according to Major Bowling, that they have found advances in the investigation. And particularly, the way that they think this will advance is that Misty`s family now knows about this information -- they knew about this going into Saturday, by the way -- and that they hope that the family may be -- or Misty, by her own conscience, if there`s a discrepancy, that she will indeed explain why Hank banged on the door and no response was given.
GRACE: To Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. Everyone, we are taking your calls live. We`ll be right out to the lines. But Mike, wouldn`t the cops pinging her cell phone put an end to all this? So far, believe it or not, it`s my understanding it hasn`t been done. Because I want to know, where was Croslin during those crucial hours after Ronald Cummings leaves to go to work...
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Right.
GRACE: ... and he gets home 3:00 AM, she`s gone? Where was she?
BROOKS: Good question, Nancy. But let`s take a look at the map. OK, Ronald Cummings`s plant is right here. There are two cell phone towers right in the vicinity of his plant, so they would be able to pick up the pings there. And don`t know exactly how many towers thee are between there and the trailer, which is here, but it`s about a 15-minute drive.
Now, I find it very interesting, Nancy, because if you recall, the very first police report, the officer who took the report said, you know, Ronald got home at about 3:00 AM. He just was pulling up in a driveway at the same time she was coming out. And if you recall, Ronald was very, very upset because he called her, My dumb B-word girlfriend, so -- but they should be able to tell, Nancy, because if there were 20 phone calls between here and here, I mean, 20 times, Nancy -- there should be records of this.
GRACE: You`re absolutely correct. And I also want to get those pings.
BROOKS: There also should be records -- absolutely. And also, did he try to call her? There`ll be records of that. Did he try to call her brother, Tommy? There`ll be records of that. Did Tommy call him back? There should be records of all of this, and exactly where these pings were between here and here, Nancy.
GRACE: Got it. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Raymond Giudice, defense attorney, Atlanta, Daniel Horowitz, renowned defense attorney, San Francisco. I don`t need to give you two a tutorial on the law. Let`s see the lawyers, please, Norm. But you both know -- I`ll start with you, Giudice -- that flight can be argued at trial. In many jurisdictions, it can`t be given as the law to the jury by the judge, but the prosecutor could argue, Why did Croslin skip town?
RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, keep in mind she`s neither a suspect nor a defendant, nor has she been charged.
GRACE: OK, so you`re not answering the question. What about it, Horowitz?
GIUDICE: She`s not flying from anything. She`s not leaving from anything.
GRACE: Horowitz?
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You`ve got to have facts. Anybody can run away when your husband gets angry at you and the whole world thinks you`re guilty. Of course, she`s young and she`s upset. We need facts before we point the finger.
GRACE: It could be argued at trial that flight indicates guilt. That will be the prosecutor`s argument, Daniel.
HOROWITZ: Or innocence. Or innocence, that you`re so upset and you`re innocent that you can`t take it. It cuts both ways.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911. What`s your emergency?
CROSLIN: Yes, I just woke up and our back door was all open, and I can`t find my daughter.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stunning developments in the case of the missing Florida girl, Haleigh Cummings, that could put the spotlight back on stepmom Misty Croslin. Misty`s brother was recently arrested on a gun charge, and he reportedly broke down under police questioning. Tommy Croslin says he went to Ronald Cummings`s trailer the night Haleigh vanished back in February. The brother said he repeatedly pounded on the door, but no one opened it. Misty Croslin has insisted she was home all night.
CROSLIN: I seen the kitchen light on. And I walked in the kitchen, and the back door`s wide open. I mean, I didn`t notice about Haleigh then until I seen the back door open. And then I go in her room, and she`s gone!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Misty`s timeline doesn`t make sense. And her story changes. So the ring of truth is that somebody went there and she wasn`t home when they knocked.
GRACE: Ms. Neves, all along, you have stated that you believed Misty Croslin. Now that you hear this, what do you think?
TERESA NEVES, HALEIGH`S PATERNAL GRANDMOTHER: This statement by Tommy Croslin to me doesn`t hold any water. You know, I`m sorry, but...
GRACE: Why?
NEVES: ... why wait seven months? Why say that he -- you know, if he went down there -- my personal opinion, if I went there and knocked and everything was off, I would think they were sleeping.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: OK, sir, let me talk to your wife. Let me get some information from her.
CUMMINGS: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK...
CUMMINGS: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Can I talk to her?
CUMMINGS: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK...
CUMMINGS: How the (DELETED) can you let my daughter get stole (DELETED)!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. To Patricia in Maryland. Hi, Patricia.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is about this GPS. What`s the police just now GPS-ing?
GRACE: You know, you and me both. What about it, Art Harris?
HARRIS: ... that she was damned tired of taking care of someone else`s kids...
GRACE: I can`t hear you. I`m sorry. Repeat?
HARRIS: ... and then asked the same guy to pray for her. He thought it was a little odd.
GRACE: OK, Art, I`m talking to you about GPS. Why haven`t they done GPS yet?
HARRIS: To me? Oh. They`re trying to do it. And they`ve been trying to -- you know, trying to ping back and -- you know, and figure out where everybody was that night. Now, they`ve got Ronald. They`ve got him at the factory. They`ve got two cell towers near there. That is his alibi. As for Misty, they are still working on her pings.
GRACE: OK. Mike Brooks, I think Patricia in Maryland is absolutely correct. We`re into this seven months.
BROOKS: Right.
GRACE: Seven months. Now, I want to make it clear what my earlier question was. What could possibly be the problem with their pings? Why can`t they get a track on her cell phone that evening to figure out where she was unless a cell phone was turned off?
BROOKS: That`s the only reason, whether the cell phone was off or the battery was dead. But Nancy, some phones do not have GPS. But every one of them will tell you exactly what tower they were pinging from.
Let`s take a look at this new map that we have. Now, this is a four- mile radius right here, OK -- this from here to here, four miles. Look at all the towers. Now, Ronald`s plant is just a little bit north of here. So you take a look at all the towers that are right all around. She`s going to be hitting them.
And let`s say she wasn`t at home. Let`s say she wasn`t there. If she was still down in this area, down in this area -- and as you get closer to some of the towns south of here, they are going to have towers. They`re going to be able to tell this. So they should be able to know if Tommy is telling the truth.
Now, if you want to find out if he`s telling the total truth, let`s go ahead and give him a polygraph also, if he will consent to it, because look at Misty. She`s failed two law enforcement polygraphs and one by Tim Miller, Equusearch group, when he was asked to come back up there and he didn`t want to waste his time if she wasn`t telling the truth.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Elizabeth, New York. Hi, Elizabeth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you. And thank you for calling in. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wanted to know if Misty`s cousin has been cleared.
GRACE: If Misty`s cousin has been cleared? What cousin are you referring to, Elizabeth?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had a cousin in town that had a previous history of -- he had just gotten out of jail for molesting a child, and I heard about (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Ah, yes, yes, yes. Joe. Joe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I heard about it in the beginning and never heard it again.
GRACE: What about it, Marlaina Schiavo?
SCHIAVO: Nancy, cousin Joe has not been cleared. The only people in this case that have been cleared are Ronald Cummings and Haleigh`s biological mother, Crystal Sheffield.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROSLIN: I did take a polygraph.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you passed it?
CROSLIN: I mean, my understanding is that I passed it.
CUMMINGS: I pulled into the yard. The front door was wide open. She was standing in it. I asked her what she was doing up. She told me that the back door was wide open and Haleigh was gone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Misty`s brother was taken from his jail cell to be questioned by police. That`s when deputies say Croslin`s brother told them it looked like no one was home that night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He tells police that he banged on the door and he got no answer. He looked inside through the windows, saw no lights, no television, did not hear a sound.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me right now, special guest Marc Klaas, the president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. He is not only a tireless victims` rights advocate, but he is a crime victim himself. His little girl, Polly, was taken from her home many years ago, and she was murdered.
Marc Klaas, what do you make of Misty Croslin allegedly skipping town? We`re hearing all sorts of stories where she might be tonight. Maybe she went to the beach. Maybe she went out with girlfriends. But nobody knows where she is.
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: No, absolutely nobody knows where she is. But there`s no sense to be made of any of this story. Has anybody asked Ron if he asked Tommy to go to the house? If Tommy went to the house and he banged on the door and he saw nothing, does that mean that the children weren`t there, as well? Is Tommy trying to make a deal for the problems that he`s having right now with law enforcement?
And finally, this whole idea of GPS -- we aren`t talking about GPS. That`s never been brought up. We`re talking about the potential for cell phone triangulation between all of these calls. And finally, I guess -- finally, finally, why is it that -- this is seven-and-a-half months later. Why is it we have to wait seven-and-a-half months to find out that there were 20 calls made, that Tommy Croslin went to the house that night and got no response from anybody? This is information that should have been turned over immediately.
GRACE: Marc Klaas, you are right again, as usual. Mike Brooks, let`s do the differentiation between -- when he says triangulate, he`s right.
BROOKS: Yes.
GRACE: But aren`t you using some type of GPS technology to triangulate or not? Is that not involved at all?
BROOKS: No, you know, it can be, Nancy. You can use a combination of both. But not all phone -- it depends on who the carrier is and the options you had on these particular phones, which probably they didn`t have a whole lot, that would have GPS. But on the other side, they should be able to tell by the code and everything else that they had subpoenaed from the cell companies exactly what towers were pinged at which time, going...
GRACE: OK.
BROOKS: ... numbers going from him to Tommy and from him to, you know, Misty.
GRACE: Weigh in, Art Harris.
HARRIS: You know, 20 times, much of it at work, frustrated, you know, what to do, what`s going on with the kids. He calls her family and asks somebody to go, and she`s apparently not there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MISTY CROSLIN-CUMMINGS, RONALD CUMMING`S WIFE, LAST SEEN HALEIGH: 3:00 in the morning I got up, and I got up because I had to use the bathroom. I seen the kitchen light on, and I walked in the kitchen and the back door`s wide open. And then I go in and look and she`s gone.
RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER OF MISSING 5-YR-OLD HALEIGH CUMMINGS: Ain`t had nothing to do with her, man. She can`t help that. She can`t help she was the last one to see her.
M. CUMMINGS: She didn`t make no noise that night. I would have woke up if I heard any noise. I didn`t hear anything at all. I mean, I was really exhausted that day. You know? I just wish they would have took me instead of her. What do they want with a little 5-year-old?
R. CUMMINGS: Could have been any one of us and our children. Any one. Nobody knows where there`s a psycho or sicko. Nobody knows.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: To Marlaina Schiavo, what does this mean to the investigation that the last person to see this little girl alive, reportedly in her own bed, has skipped town?
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: What it means, Nancy, is they`re going to want to talk to her. They already want to talk to her. Including her own attorney. She spoke to police over the weekend. Her attorney wasn`t even informed of this interview. So Major Bowling of Putnam County has already said they`d really like to sit down with her and her lawyer and find out what happened.
GRACE: Giudice, Horowitz. Horowitz, what does it mean to the police investigation, the last person to see her alive has skipped town? There are reports she`s in Orlando. But we don`t know that.
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, Nancy, they don`t have too many suspects in this case. If it`s not her, then they`re pretty much out of luck. And they have to suspect some mystery person grabbing children. So they`re hoping against all hope that it is her and that this is a sign of guilt.
But we can`t jump to conclusions. It`s too easy and convenient to blame her. And there`s a lot of alternate explanations that we have to explore.
GRACE: Giudice?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Without her being a suspect, she is still the most important witness in this case. She`s the last person to see the children. She was with them. She`s an important person to be spoken to. And law enforcement needs to go get her.
GRACE: Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist, author of "I Know What You`re Thinking." Lillian, what do you make of her leaving town?
LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "I KNOW WHAT YOU`RE THINKING": I think it`s very suspicious. Because why is she leaving town? Does she have something to hide? It`s very suspicious. The whole situation.
And, Nancy, when you look at her body language, there are so many tells that she`s not telling the truth. It`s really repulsive to watch.
GRACE: Such as? Such as?
GLASS: Well, for example, she`s doing a lot of lip-licking. She`s saying no when it`s supposed to be in the affirmative. A lot of shoulder shrugging. The tears -- that don`t look very genuine. It`s very disturbing to watch.
GRACE: To physician and professor of public health at Johns Hopkins University, Dr. Marty Makary, joining out of D.C.
Welcome, Doctor.
DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Thanks, Nancy.
GRACE: Doctor -- again, everyone, tip line 888-277-8477. This child suffers with Turner syndrome.
MAKARY: Yes, about 1 in 3,000 girls gets Turner syndrome. It`s this condition where they have some deformities. The ears are a little low set. They have webbing of the neck. And we know with Haleigh in particular she saw doctors frequently, often missing school.
So we know she needed special attention for these recurrent infections that she was prone to because of the Turner syndrome.
GRACE: So if she is still alive and is not being treated by the doctors or the hospital, she`s in such serious, serious danger.
MAKARY: Very much so. She definitely has special needs. She`s at high risk for severe infections. And she needs special attention.
GRACE: Everyone, we are taking your calls live. But very quickly, I want to report to you a story about a dedicated mother who heads off in the early morning hours to catch her carpool and is not only stabbed in a public parking lot but then the assailant gets back in his car and comes back to run her over.
Tonight she`s clinging to life. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Visitors at a high-end New Jersey hotel were shocked Friday morning to find a woman lying face down in the hotel parking lot with multiple knife wounds to the torso.
Police say the victim, Laura Matousek, was meeting a co-worker at the parking lot to carpool to work. Witnesses say as soon as Laura pulled into the parking lot a man got out of his blue or green pickup truck or SUV, attacked Laura with a knife, and then got back into his car and ran her over.
Laura is in critical condition at Hackensack University Medical Center while authorities began conducting interviews, including interviewing Laura`s ex-husband, who voluntarily spoke to police for about 12 hours this weekend. No charges have been filed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appears from what I understand she was here carpooling with someone else that was taking her to work. So -- but she was not a guest of the hotel, nor was she an employee of the office complex.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Allison Pries, joining us from Woodland Park, New Jersey with "The Record."
Allison, what is her condition tonight, and where are her children?
ALLISON PRIES, REPORTER, THE RECORD (via phone): She`s still critical tonight. It`s unknown where her children are at this point. She did have custody of them, and her ex-husband had visitation. So it`s unclear whether they`re with him or not.
GRACE: Has the ex-husband been interrogated?
PRIES: Yes. For 12 hours. From Saturday evening until -- I`m sorry, Friday evening until early Saturday morning.
GRACE: And he is not labeled a suspect at this juncture. He has been let free to walk. What about the current boyfriend, Allison Pries?
PRIES: Police indicated that they don`t have a suspect right now, that they`re still looking at everybody. So.
GRACE: To Matt Zarrell, our producer on the story. Matt, what was the sequence of events?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Well, apparently, she went that morning about 8:00 a.m. Friday morning. She went to meet a co-worker to carpool to work in Parsippany, which is near Morristown. Now what happened was witnesses say a man -- as soon as she got out of the car, a man walked up to her, stabbed her multiple times in the torso, got back into his car, and then ran her over and fled the scene.
GRACE: OK. What can you tell me about his vehicle, Matt Zarrell?
ZARRELL: We know that it`s a blue or green SUV. Unfortunately, we haven`t been able to figure out what it can be compared to, whether it`s a Nissan or a Mazda or what have you. But we`re still trying to work that through.
GRACE: Allison Pries, how many eyewitnesses saw this?
PRIES: Two hotel guests were walking in the parking lot, came upon her body lying in the parking lot.
GRACE: So did they see the incident?
PRIES: They saw the dark-colored SUV leave, and they saw her lying face down on the pavement.
GRACE: Do we know whether the perpetrator was a male? Female? White, black, Hispanic? What do we know?
PRIES: Nothing. No details have been released.
GRACE: Why? Why, Allison? I mean, if cops want the public to help find the perpetrator, how can we do that if we don`t even have the most rudimentary description?
PRIES: I don`t know. They`re being very tight-lipped.
GRACE: Back to you, Matt Zarrell, do you have any idea where the children are tonight, ages 8 and 5? And what about the relationship? It`s my understanding a temporary restraining order, a protective order had been taken out against the ex-husband but it had expired?
ZARRELL: Yes, Nancy, you`re right. Reports are that the protection order expired April 29th of this year. They have been divorced for a little over two years. There were some battles over custody and child support. He had a judgment against him for $11,000 in January `08 for not paying child support. We are still trying to figure out where the kids are tonight, Nancy.
GRACE: OK. Matt, what can you tell me about anything, the neighbors, friends, co-workers have to say about her, the victim, Laura Matousek, or the husband, the ex-husband?
ZARRELL: Well, neighbors have said very wonderful things about Laura. She was working two jobs to support her children. Now, a neighbor where the father lives is saying that the -- I`m sorry, the ex-husband. The ex- husband says that the -- Laura, the wife, was cheating on him and had told the new boyfriend -- told the kids to call the new boyfriend "dad" and that he was the -- the ex-husband was very upset about that.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live, to Linda in Texas. Hi, Linda.
LINDA, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
LINDA: I`m wondering if the person that she was carpooling with ever showed up.
GRACE: Excellent question. To Allison Pries with "The Record." What do we know? Was the carpool there waiting on her?
PRIES: The carpooler arrived as the two guests were finding her body.
GRACE: Where did she work, Allison? Do we know?
PRIES: We`re not sure, no. Somewhere in the Parsippany area.
GRACE: But we know she was holding down two jobs to support her children. So Allison, what can you tell me about the relationship between her and her ex-husband? Was it acrimonious? Had they settled amicably and gone their separate ways?
PRIES: There have been disputes, as you mentioned earlier about child support payments and also the sale of the marital home.
GRACE: In fact, isn`t it true, Matt Zarrell, that she got about an $11,000 back child support judgment against him?
ZARRELL: Yes. In January of `08 for failure to pay child support. You`re right, Nancy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He and Matousek were divorced 2 1/2 years ago. And prosecutors say Pelcak did have a restraining order against him that only recently expired. They have two children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: NANCY GRACE brought to you by.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Chopper 12 flew over the crime scene shortly after the attack took place. Police investigating after three hotel guests discovered a woman lying face down in the north parking lot of the Sheraton Crossroads Hotel.
Police say that man, 41-year-old Allan Pelcak, brutally stabbed then ran over the mother of his children in the parking lot of the Sheraton Hotel in Mahwah. He and Matousek were divorced 2 1/2 years ago. They have two children. The children`s school, Liberty Elementary in Rockland County, New York, was on lockdown.
Police say the victim was waiting for a friend for a carpool to their workplace in Parsippany when her estranged husband allegedly went on the attack. Police say he tried to hide at his grandmother`s home in Haverstraw. His ex-wife remains in critical condition.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Chopper 12 was over the crime scene in Mahwah shortly after the attack, we`re told, took place shortly after 8:30 this morning. Police investigating after several guests of the Sheraton Hotel discovered a woman lying face down in the parking lot says the hotel manager.
That victim identified as Laura Matousek of Valley Cottage, New York was waiting to be picked up by a co-worker. Investigators say she was taken to Hackensack University Hospital where she`s listed in critical condition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I want to clear something up. Matt Zarrell, the ex-husband has not been named a suspect. I heard what the affiliate reporter said. But he has not been named a suspect. In fact, he underwent questioning, I think, without a lawyer for about 12 hours, and police let him go.
ZARRELL: Yes. In fact, they were looking for him right after this happened. He went with them voluntarily. He had no issues, no problems. He talked to them for 12 hours and they let him go. They said he`s not a suspect, not a person of interest, nothing to indicate he`s involved at this point.
GRACE: OK, Raymond Giudice, Daniel Horowitz. It`s always SOP, standard operating procedure, you first look at husband, lover, ex-husband, ex-lover, boyfriend. Then you move out from there. Why, Daniel?
HOROWITZ: Well, you know, first of all, early news reports pointed to sources who blamed the husband. So that`s probably where that came from.
GRACE: Yes.
HOROWITZ: But you always look for people closest to the victim. A motive generally for this kind of murder is something -- is passion. There`s no other reason to do it. So you look at the ex-husband. You look at the boyfriend. You look at people who might be angry at her or a little bit nuts around her, and you go from there.
GRACE: Ray Giudice, I don`t think it`s limited to people that are a little bit nuts, as Horowitz just said. Perfectly normal people suddenly nut up and commit a heinous crime.
GIUDICE: Daniel has described what I would consider to be the inner ring. Then you move to the outer ring or the next ring. Co-employees. What happened at Yale. People that she may have had an argument.
GRACE: Exactly.
GIUDICE: . over at the bank, over something trivial.
GRACE: And -- you know what`s interesting, what struck me, is the assailant stabs her, then calmly gets back in his car and runs over her, gets into his SUV.
Dr. Marty Makary, describe your assessment of what her injuries most likely are.
MAKARY: Well, you know, I`ve got to be honest, Nancy. I`ve been shocked in my 10 years of trauma surgery of major complex injuries like this being survivable. And I`ve been humbled that sometimes they`re fatal when they`re minor.
She has multiple stab injuries. She has a crush injury. They`re classic. They produce something called myoglobin that hurts your kidneys. They`re often in the ICU for a long time. She`ll be there at least four weeks. She`ll have multiple bedside procedures.
And if she comes through it, she`ll likely remember everything right up to when she passed out.
GRACE: Yes, when we`re told, Doctor, that she was actually whispering something to the paramedics.
Everyone, switching gears, joining me right now is a very, very special guest. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBIN MEADE, HOST, HLN`S MORNING EXPRESS WITH ROBIN MEADE, AUTHOR, "MORNING SUNSHINE": What`s with your penchant for jumping still?
GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT: Well, two reasons. One, it still feels good. You still get a charge out f of it. It`s not easy to do at 85, but I get.
(LAUGHTER)
MEADE: I don`t think it`s easy to do at any age.
So tell me what each of you remembers about that day, how this rescue came about, and your thoughts at the time. Certainly, you couldn`t have believed it right at the beginning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. It was -- we didn`t know what was happening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: "Morning Sunshine." Top anchor on a top show. "HEADLINE NEWS`s" "Morning Show with Robin Meade." She`s with me right now and I`ve got her book in my hand.
Robin, your book deals with so many obstacles that you have faced.
MEADE: Yes.
GRACE: What is your message? Because all of us looking at you find it very difficult to believe you`ve ever had an obstacle.
MEADE: Nancy, thank you so much for having me back on your show. I appreciate it. You know, so this book really deals with my struggles through self-confidence and self-esteem. For me it manifested itself on the air, no less, about 10 years ago when I was anchoring in Chicago in the form of panic attacks.
So I wrote this book for other people. Maybe you don`t have panic attacks, but maybe you have a self-esteem or self-confidence issue. And really, who among us doesn`t? So this really walks us through it.
GRACE: Robin, what advice do you give other people?
MEADE: In terms of their self-confidence? You know, I think that if we all really look at ourselves in an honest way, if you did an honest self-assessment and not really believe the stories, the little lies you`ve allowed yourself to tell yourself and believe, you have every single reason to feel confident about yourself.
I wanted to show you. This is when I did a sky jump here, a skydive with President Bush 41, and the Golden Knights. I think that`s a really good example of how I came full circle in my dealings with anxiety. About 10 years ago there`s no way I would have jumped out of a plane and not had anxiety issues.
But because I`ve been able to bring it full circle and say you know, I have every reason to be self-confident, just like you do at home. I was able to do this without any anxiety, believe it or not.
GRACE: Everybody, I`m talking to Robin Meade. We are taking your calls. You see Robin every morning right here on "HEADLINE NEWS."
Robin, when you are giving other people advice, do we have to go so far as to jump out of a plane to overcome our obstacles?
(LAUGHTER)
You know, because I`m not jumping out of a plane. I have no interest in that, drugs, gambling. I mean, I have absolutely no interest in that. So can`t -- does the whole camel have to be in the tent? If the nose is in, does the tail have to follow? Can`t I just poke my nose in?
What`s my alternative? From NASCAR racing, which you also did, we`re showing that right now, and jumping out of a plane. OK?
MEADE: No.
GRACE: Because I didn`t get that from your book.
MEADE: Exactly. No, we don`t have to do crazy stunts to really demonstrate that we have self-confidence in ourselves. For example, there`s little confidence boosters in my book. It can be something as simple as when you`re struggling with your self-esteem try to think in terms of respect.
Respect is higher on the ladder of confidence than just being liked. I was infatuated with whether Nancy Grace likes me or the audience likes me or the person I met at the store liked me. So therefore, I was putting other people`s opinion of myself above my own opinion of myself.
But if you give yourself respect, you`re giving other people respect, you`re kind of throwing out the infatuation with being admired. No, you don`t have to jump out of a plane. I admire you just the way you are, Nancy.
GRACE: Everybody, we`re taking your calls live. Let`s go to Patricia in Texas first. Hi, Patricia.
PATRICIA, CALLER FROM TEXAS: How are you, Nancy?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
PATRICIA: I have a quick question, Robin. I am 36. And I have panic attacks. And they have put me on Clonofin and Afexor. And I was wounding up in the hospital for many years over and over again thinking I was dying, of course, and now I know I`m not. But -- and what did you do? Or how did you overcome that without having to be on this medication? I hate having to rely on medication.
MEADE: Yes. I had a transformation breakthrough where I had to flip myself around and say, what are the benefits of the panic attacks instead of fearing them so much? And as soon as I stopped fearing them, they stopped coming.
I wish you a lot of luck in your struggle with it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEADE: I remembered, President Bush, that Barbara said no more after you were 80.
BUSH: Well, Barbara has different ways of phrasing her enthusiasm. One of them is, "one way or another, this is your last jump." I said, come on, darling, one way or another? And the last one was, well, I`m glad you`re doing it at the church here. We won`t have far to move you.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are seeing our Robin Meade. Of course we all wake up with her every morning. My children watch you every morning, Robin Meade.
Caller, Trina in Minnesota. Hi, Trina.
TRINA, CALLER FROM MINNESOTA: Hi.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question for Robin?
TRINA: I just have a quick question. I used to be a lot thinner and prettier and I hit my 40s. My question is, I go out and I see all these happy looking, pretty people just having this great life. Then I kind of hit that midlife blah.
What I`m wondering is, how do you convince yourself that you`re still a viable, pretty good-looking person compared to, you know, according to my husband and everything? How do you convince yourself that you are really not as bad as you feel on the inside?
MEADE: Well, hopefully your confidence isn`t based on your outside appearance because you are so much more than that. You know I always tell people that your outside is going to change. You know our -- if you feel like your looks are going to go at one point. The muscles are going to sag for the guys. The chisel jaw line is going to droop.
(LAUGHTER)
But what is really you stays constant. The youth that you were.
GRACE: That`s easy for you to say, Meade. You`re beautiful.
(LAUGHTER)
What about the rest of us? Yes, you toss that one off. You know, the bottom line, Robin, it all boils down to how you approach your problems.
MEADE: Yes. I think that`s the right -- exactly right, Nancy. Just like yourself. I mean, in your life and your story, there have been plenty of challenges where you could have said, I am done, I am done with it. But you`re a fighter. And you`ve come back and we are all a benefit of it.
And so therefore, folks at home, it`s not going to be easy, but if you can look at it and say, I`m going to overcome this.
GRACE: Robin Meade`s book "Good Morning Sunshine."
Let`s stop and remember Marine Lace Corporal Christopher Fowlkes, 20, Gaffney, South Carolina. Airlifted to a military hospital, died with his parents by his side.
Christopher Fowlkes, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
