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Optimism Over AIDS Vaccine; Obama to Chair Security Council Meeting; Pittsburgh Preps for G-20 Summit; Obama Considering Troop Request for Afghanistan; Singers Stage a Concert for Scientific Research, Education; Many Unemployed Still Not Finding Jobs

Aired September 24, 2009 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: That bring us around to the top of the hour -- it's 8:00 Eastern on Thursday, September, the 24th. Thanks for joining us on the "Most News in the Morning. I'm John Roberts.

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kiran Chetry. We have a lot going on this morning. Big stories we're going to be breaking down for you in the next 15 minutes.

First, for the first time ever, researchers are saying that they've developed an experimental vaccine that successfully cuts the risk of infection from HIV -- development that is really, really exciting for many in the medical field. They didn't even know if this day would ever come.

Our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, is going to be taking a look at these clinical trials, and also, how the vaccine could impact of thousands volunteers who use it.

ROBERTS: A historic meeting and a global cause. In just over an hour, President Obama will become the first U.S. president ever to chair a meeting of the U.N. Security Council, and he'll be pushing countries around the world to ditch their nukes. So, just how hard of a sell is that going to be? Some answers for you -- just ahead.

CHETRY: Also, meet the rock stars of science. Some of your favorite musicians are playing for a new cause, trying to raise awareness on scientific research for things like Alzheimer's disease, cancer, and HIV/AIDS, that could lead to millions of lives saved. There's an all-star roster in the nation's capital and today, we are thrilled to have with us, Aerosmith's lead guitarist, Joe Perry.

Well, for the first time in more than two decades, researchers have developed the vaccine that reduces the risk of infection from the AIDS virus. This experimental vaccine was used in a clinical trial on thousands of volunteers in Thailand, and researchers say that it cut the risk of becoming infected with HIV by nearly a third.

Our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, joins us from Philadelphia this morning. And as I said, this study is generating a lot of excitement. Is that excitement justified in your opinion, Sanjay?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think it is absolutely justified. You know, I've been reporting on HIV/AIDS stories for a long time now, and I didn't know if I'd get a chance to report a story like this one, Kiran.

There was a lot of pessimism about the idea that a vaccine would be in the cards for HIV/AIDS. There have been two large vaccine trials in the past. One didn't work at all. The second one, possibly, actually increased someone's risk of developing the infection. So you can understand the pessimism there.

That gives you a little bit of context, walking into some of the news that's coming out just this morning over the last several hours, showing exactly what you said -- that a vaccine is, in fact, possible. Showing a modest improvement, but more importantly, showing proof of principle.

Take a look at some of the numbers here. Sixteen thousand people, as you mentioned, overall, in the study. These people considered high-risk for developing an HIV infection. About half of them, about 8,200 received a placebo, no vaccine. The other half received the vaccine, which was a series of six shots over six months. They were all studied three years later and that's what they found there.

Take a look. Seventy-four people in the placebo group developing the infection as compared to 51 in the vaccine group. Now, you may look at the numbers and say, well, that doesn't seem like it's that big a deal. But overall, it's about a third reduction in the likelihood of developing the infection if you receive the vaccine. And the researchers say that's significant enough to show that a vaccine is possible.

Again, Kiran, that alone is a big deal. You know, people, before the study came out saying, we just didn't know if a vaccine was going to be the answer.

CHETRY: Yes, it is. It's interesting and it's certainly notable that this is moving forward right now and that it's a big, big optimistic step forward. I mean, obviously, you want to get better than 30 percent, but still, a huge step.

The other interesting thing that we noted was that the Department of Defense was involved in this research. Why was that?

GUPTA: Well, you know, it's interesting. If you look at infectious diseases, including ones like HIV, in many ways, they are considered potential national security threats. You can change the economies of countries; you can change the health systems of countries, simply by an infection like this. You also have the concern about people, you know, troops overseas and domestically being at risk for the infection. So these were who reasons that the Department of Defense, the army, specifically has been involved with this for some time.

The numbers are -- you know, they're still staggering if you think about it, Kiran. And again, we've been reporting on this for a long time, but 33 million people around the world right now living with HIV. Over 2 million people still die every year of the infection. Obviously, there are places in the country, places in the world that are much harder hit. Sub-Saharan Africa, for example, takes the largest brunt of all this.

But, again, the idea that you might be able to give a series of shots to people and those series of shots would either modestly or hopefully one day greatly reduce their chance of getting the infection is what has the medical community here so excited.

CHETRY: Absolutely. All right. Sanjay for us this morning -- great to talk to you about this situation. Thanks.

ROBERTS: Here in New York City, in just over two hours, President Obama will lead a historic meeting of the United Nations Security Council, and the only thing on the agenda is a call for a world without nuclear weapons.

CHETRY: Right. And it's the first time ever that an American president is chairing a Security Council meeting. This was since the body was created back in 1946.

So, for more on this, we have with us today our Suzanne Malveaux, White House correspondent, and our foreign affairs correspondent, Jill Dougherty. Thanks to both of you for being with us again today.

So, let's start with you, Suzanne. We talk about a lot of pressure and all the things that the president has to do, and now, chairing this Security Council meeting on a huge issue like trying to rein in nuclear weapons. How important is this today for him?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's very important, but this is the one thing that they actually knew that they were going to get out of these two days of meetings here, because this is something that was kind of precooked, if you will. But it's significant, it's a big deal, because, essentially, these world leaders are getting together and they're saying, "We're going to cut down on our nuclear arsenals. We're going to make sure that Iran is held accountable in terms of sanctions if it doesn't comply, if it continues to defy the will of the international community."

One thing it doesn't do and that they would have liked is to say, "We'll do additional sanctions against Iran if they don't comply later." I talked to a White House aide this morning who said, "Look, well, you know, we'll see how Iran behaves. We'll see what happens."

There are going to be direct talks. They're going to be taking place on October 1st. That will be really critical, very important. Not at the level of these leaders, but certainly underneath and we'll see if they have any kind of progress that they can make.

ROBERTS: Nonproliferation, Jill, is certainly important when it comes to a country like Iran. But this -- the speech of the president in this session that the president will be chairing this morning goes well beyond Iran.

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. It goes to North Korea and it also goes to other countries who say, "Look, there are these big countries, Russia, the United States, who have all these nuclear weapons. Why can't we have them?" And it's a rationale that you're hearing from a lot of the world leaders. Ahmadinejad makes that point.

And don't forget, you know, during the Cold War, you had two countries that had these nuclear weapons. And they had what was called mutual assured destruction. Each guy had enough to blow up the other guy. Now...

ROBERTS: Ten times over.

DOUGHERTY: Precisely. So, but if you have terrorists, that rationale dies...

ROBERTS: Yes.

DOUGHERTY: ... because terrorists are willing to blow themselves up in order to kill the other guy. So what they're looking at is this overarching structure to change that, to strengthen it, to make sure that these weapons don't get spread to other countries and that it doesn't get into the hands of terrorists.

CHETRY: We have the nuclear issue and also, of course, we've been hearing these controversial speeches going on as well. And so, we're expecting to hear some more controversial things today, Suzanne. You know, how does the White House handle that? How do they sort of react when you hear speeches like Moammar Gadhafi's and Ahmadinejad's?

MALVEAUX: You know, it's a delicate dance, because I know that -- we heard from Robert Gibbs yesterday, who was really just trying to, like, you know, brush it off -- that there wasn't any kind of dance, whether he wasn't trying to meet with him or shake his hand. We saw President Obama on the floor and he had actually sat down for a little bit. There was a chance encounter that they might have actually, you know, shook each other's hands, but that's something that they really try to avoid.

One thing that I think we're going to see today is Afghan leader Hamid Karzai. What is he going to say? That's going to be very important -- because you've got the Obama administration really, very much, they feel in a pickle.

This guy, who they feel like -- all kinds of questions over the legitimacy of his election. You've got 21,000 additional troops that the Obama administration put in Afghanistan to make sure that it was a secure election. And now you have this whole debate that is taking place with the administration over whether or not to send more troops or you pull out.

I mean, this is something that they are fighting over in the administration. What does Hamid Karzai say? You know, do they consider him a legitimate leader when he speaks before that world body?

ROBERTS: You know, Jill, these speeches that we see and the controversy around them, whether it's Ahmadinejad or it's Gadhafi or Chavez or whatever, that's sort of the big stage show. It's the play, if you will. But behind the scenes, there's a lot going on -- which is where the real work gets done. What's been accomplished this year at the general assembly?

DOUGHERTY: You know, I think, if you look at it from Obama's perspective, he got movement, it appears, from Russia on this crucial issue of strengthening the sanctions. And...

ROBERTS: Against Iran.

DOUGHERTY: Against Iran. And although there Mr. Medvedev, the Russian president, isn't coming out and saying, "Look, I'm for really hard sanctions," he's indicating that that is where they are going. And that's very, very important.

And then, also, what we were talking about -- this agreement, or this resolution that they will pass this morning, we expect. The first thing off the bat at this meeting, they're going to pass this resolution on nuclear weapons, nonproliferation. And that really is important.

So, you know, two things in his corner that he's done so far, I think, if you're talking about Obama.

MALVEAUX: What was disappointing, though, was the Middle East process.

ROBERTS: Yes.

MALVEAUX: Because they really had hoped going in to get something. And even coming out, when we heard from the Israeli leader, Benjamin Netanyahu, who was not budging, he did not budge on the issue of freezing Israeli settlements. We heard from Mahmoud Abbas, and he too is not budging. He wants to get some reassurance on the settlement issue before they do these broad negotiations, these broad talks.

And we learned something about Obama's leadership, which he essentially was trying to encourage the Palestinian leader, let's move forward, you know, let's table this and let's move forward to broader discussions. Very pragmatic, but, essentially, it did not work. These two are entrenched in their positions. That's a really tough position.

ROBERTS: Expectations were low going in, results were even lower.

Suzanne Malveaux and Jill Dougherty, great to see you this morning.

Ten and a half minutes after the hour.

And also new this morning, the U.S. government is warning Americans traveling to Germany about a possible terror attack. The alert coming after al Qaeda posted a video message threatening attacks timed to coincide with Sunday's election. The speaker on the tape is criticizing German Chancellor Angela Merkel and her support of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Travelers are being advised to keep a low-profile for the next few days. CHETRY: And a possible threat to passenger safety at Chicago's O'Hare International Airport. According to the "Chicago Tribune," that paper reporting that federal inspectors found numerous violations that could endanger planes during takeoffs and landings. They include rocks and construction debris on the runways, also, overgrown weeds that could attract birds. City officials say they are taking these new warnings very seriously.

ROBERTS: And there was a shortage of Tamiflu for children. Demand for the drug has increased dramatically since the swine flu first surfaced in April. The Swiss company Roche Holdings makes Tamiflu. They have been focused on ramping the production of adult Tamiflu in a pill form, and that created a shortage of the liquid Tamiflu for kids. The company is advising doctors and pharmacists that they can grind up the adult pills and turn them into lower dosage pills for children.

CHETRY: And still ahead, we're going to be breaking down more about reaction from the president at the general assembly. What came out of it and politically speaking, what was at stake and what was accomplished. We're going to be speaking with James Carville and Tony Blankley live in just a moment.

It's 12 minutes past the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: Welcome back.

A look right now at the capital this morning, in D.C. Fourteen minutes past the hour. Right now, it's cloudy. It is 74 degrees. A little bit later, we're going to be going up to a high of 85 degrees in the nation's capital.

And in just about an hour from now, President Obama is going to be making history. He will be the first American president to take the helm at a U.N. Security Council meeting. And as we've been talking about this morning, the push will be to the get rid of nuclear weapons.

But there are a lot of other big problems to deal with as well. Of course, Afghanistan a big hot-button issue on foreign policy for this White House, Iran, and North Korea. And president seems to be making some big shifts in foreign policy. Will they pay off?

For now, I'm joined by CNN political contributor and Democratic strategist James Carville. And in D.C.: Tony Blankley, conservative columnist and author of "American Grit."

Thanks to both of you for being with us this morning.

Tony, let me start with you really quickly. In his speech yesterday, the president issued a global challenge for world leaders saying, "You know what, we can't do this alone as America, you have to step up to the plate as well." How will this impact some of the big foreign policy challenges, like Afghanistan, in dealing with Iran and North Korea?

TONY BLANKLEY, CONSERVATIVE COLUMNIST: Well, you know, I've been reading the president's remarks overnight pretty carefully. I think he's doing a lot more than simply separating himself from President Bush's foreign policy. I think he's presenting a pretty thorough critique of the kind of great power foreign policy that we've practiced for quite a while in this country. He's saying it doesn't work. It creates anti-Americanism that exerting our power and our muscle has created more problems than it's solved and he's going down a different path.

We began to see it. We're beginning to see that what Afghanistan where it looks very much like he is not going to perpetuate a counterinsurgency war and he's looking for a much lower profile. He is not following the traditional policies of negotiating with the Russians bit by bit. He's conceded anti-missile and he's now hoping, maybe with some chance of success at cooperation voluntarily from them.

I think -- we're all defending or attacking based on our traditional views of foreign policy. He's going to try something quite different and he's got three years and four months to experiment.

CHETRY: And, James, you know, in between all of the theater of watching what goes on -- I mean, the Gadhafi speech yesterday, all of the entrances by the world leaders, the protests of Ahmadinejad, what is politically accomplished at this huge general assembly meeting for our president?

JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: First of all, this is the U.N. You have -- see, if it was just Switzerland and Singapore, we wouldn't have this.

CHETRY: Right.

CARVILLE: But it wouldn't do much good. I mean, you know, the bad guys are not here.

I don't know, they had the general assembly meeting, it's kind of hard to say, if you sort of look back. Apparently, they feel like they've made some major advancements in getting Russia and China involved in trying to constrain the Iranians and their program. I think what the president said is pretty much in line with what he's talked about in the campaign. It wasn't like he wasn't going to tell these guys, "Let's invade Iraq, let's invade Afghanistan, let's bomb Iran, let's bomb North Korea, let's start four wars, let's cut, let's get away with the estate taxes, get way with the capital gains tax."

You can't fund wars with tax cuts. This is such an old philosophy of government. And what the president is doing is saying, look, when we do things together -- Winston Churchill, you know, that great leftist, once said, the only thing that, you know, worse than having allies is not having allies. And we pretty much made ourselves pretty unpopular around the world and I think it makes sense to go there and re-evaluate our policy in Afghanistan. We've been there for seven and a half years. You would think the guy was like running the country to say, let's take a look at this thing.

CHETRY: And, Tony, I want to ask you about that, because critics are saying that the president did, of course, take jabs at the former President Bush. He said at one point, and this is what drew the biggest applause actually on the floor of the general assembly when he said America acted unilaterally without regard for the interest of others.

Popular on the world stage, but how does that play at home?

BLANKLEY: Well, we'll see. I think it's always risky for any president to position himself too far from the center of gravity of public opinion. Most Americans, while they don't like (ph) George Bush, but they take a lot of pride in American history and what we've done in the world. I think President Obama thinks that there are other parts of our history that he is not as proud of and he's willing to say that in public. We'll see how that plays out around the world.

But, I think -- just to go back for one second -- I think after eight months in office, he's beginning to take some confidence in his own judgment. And he's -- and he's not just going along. It's a little bit like President Kennedy after the Bay of Pigs. He listened to the generals the first time and then after that, he thought for himself.

I think Obama, on Afghanistan and elsewhere, is not so impressed with the advice he's getting from the foreign policy establishment of Washington.

CHETRY: And that's interesting. So, how does he handle that predicament?

CARVILLE: You know what, I think Tony and I will agree. It's a big job. And, you know, it wasn't like he didn't know there were tough -- when we ran for it, there was that thing in Afghanistan.

CHETRY: Yes. But the questioning of legitimacy of Karzai has actually made it harder for him, hasn't it?

CARVILLE: Well, it doesn't matter. I mean, I was in Afghanistan. I think -- Tony and I are not speaking for him -- the question of legitimacy of Karzai, that election was not a pretty thing. And it was not a pretty thing to the American taxpayer. And it wasn't a pretty thing to the U.S. military or the civilian authority. And it probably warrants some re-evaluation of our policy. I suspect that's what's going on.

General McChrystal was in the paper today, saying that he had no problem with that. But it's probably a good time to catch a deep breath and try to figure out where this thing is going. And I think on that, most people can agree.

CHETRY: All right. Well, we're going to leave it there on a conciliatory note. Thanks so much for being with us, Tony Blankley as well as James Carville. Thanks.

CARVILLE: Thank you.

CHETRY: It's 20 minutes past the hour - John.

ROBERTS: OK. We've also -- we've all heard of rock stars, but what about rock stars of science? And what happens when rock stars team up with rock stars of science? Well, potentially, you get some breakthroughs. We're going to be talking with Joe Perry, lead guitarist of Aerosmith, who's kicking off this campaign today in Washington, Rock Stars of Science. We'll ask him why he wanted to get involved and what he hopes comes of it. That's coming up.

Twenty minutes now after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: So, in Pittsburgh, they're getting ready for the G-20, and we're asking the question this morning: what exactly is the G-20 and why should you care? Well, here's more for you in "A.M. Extra." The G-20 is an annual meeting of 19 industrial and emerging market countries and the European Union. G-20 leaders get together to discuss issues related to global economic security.

CHETRY: That's right. And they try to get on the same page about how to handle issues like the financial crisis and fighting terrorist financing. It represents about two-thirds of the world's population and about 90 percent of the world's total economic output.

So, there's little factoids about exactly what the G-20 is. And, of course, it's a pretty big deal. The summit of the world's biggest economies has not started yet, but already, protesters are flying to Pittsburgh.

ROBERTS: Yes, and this morning, security has come down on that city like a giant clam. Here's Kate Bolduan with the city's preparations.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John and Kiran, law enforcement here at the G-20 summit has roads, bridges, and water to secure, dignitaries, the public, and protesters to account for. Talk to any of the agencies involved, and they'll tell you, this is a massive security operation.

(CHANTING)

BOLDUAN (voice-over): Riot training these men and women hope they don't have to use.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As soon as you get up there, they're pulling you. You're out. He's in. You're done.

BOLDUAN: Twenty-five hundred national guard troops, up to 4,000 police officers and federal authorities -- all converging in Pittsburgh to brace for the G-20 summit, any possible threats to world leaders, and the potential for thousands of protesters.

LUKE RAVENSTAHL, PITTSBURGH MAYOR: Our biggest challenge, quite honestly, has been security around the G-20 summit. We've been very aggressive in putting a public safety plan together.

BOLDUAN: Pittsburgh's mayor and the Secret Service overseeing security say they're ready, setting up a stick three-block security perimeter around the convention center where the leaders will meet with tight restrictions on traffic elsewhere. The coast guard is shutting down a five-mile stretch of Pittsburgh's famed rivers running close by.

(on camera): So this is the heart of the maritime security zone.

CMDR. RICHARD TIMME, U.S. COAST GUARD: This is, right here. This is where we want to make sure that we have complete control of the maritime domain.

BOLDUAN: And about 40 agencies are monitoring it all from a command center outside the city center.

ED DONOVAN, SECRET SERVICE SPOKESMAN: We have to be prepared for everything. So that comes from, you know, from a lone person that's going to try to disrupt the event up, to someone that's going to commit a criminal act, all the way up to an organized group or terrorist group that's going to try to bring real harm to attendees.

BOLDUAN (voice-over): At the same time, protests have already started. Here, demonstrators dangling from the West End Bridge.

TIMME: That banner is about a third of the way down. It's not a safe situation.

BOLDUAN (on camera): Pittsburgh police arrested those dangling protesters, people helping them, and a second group attempting to repel off another bridge. According to the FBI, there have been no significant threats against the summit -- John, Kiran.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTS: Kate Bolduan for us this morning -- Kate Bolduan, thanks so much.

So, we know that General Stanley McChrystal's got his report out there, the administration's got, the Pentagon considering whether or not lit request more troops to be sent to Afghanistan. There seems to be some friction between the military leadership and the civilian leadership in the administration. So what's the best way forward? We're going to run that passed Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt and Stephen Biddle, who helped write General McChrystal's report -- coming up right after the break.

It's 26 minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC)

ROBERTS: That can only mean one thing.

CHETRY: Carol's back and she's mad as...

(LAUGHTER)

CHETRY: Well, welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.

You know, we want to do a quick follow-up for you on some of the reports from our Carol Costello this morning in our "Mad as Hell" series. Yesterday, Carol looked into how divided Americans -- I tell my kids not to say it and then we're saying it -- you know, she basically said there was, you know, a lot of feedback. Probably the most feedback she's gotten so far from this one.

ROBERTS: You know, yesterday, she tackled whether or not there was any way that Washington can bring people back together again in this divided nation. We asked you for your feedback, and, boy, did we get it.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CALLER: We need to be responsible for ourselves and do what's right and not do what's wrong -- as simple as that.

CALLER: As far as who is the moral authority, the top one would be the president.

CALLER: You're asking the wrong question when you ask, look for a human being that is the moral standard in America. You need to look to God.

CALLER: It's very simple. Just serve one another.

CALLER: If the American people would just consider those less fortunate than them, I think our country would be a better place.

CALLER: The only way that we can fix this is if everyone works together and stops arguing and shouting and name calling.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

ROBERTS: And please keep those comments coming. We want to know what you think about our "Mad as" -- series or anything else that you see on the show. Head to our blog at CNN.com/amFIX or call the show hotline at 1877-MY-AMFIX.

You know, we get -- we can get complains about almost anything that comes out of our mouth. But when you say the word, hell, nobody ever complained about the series title.

CHETRY: Really?

ROBERTS: No, nobody. Nobody complained about it, at least not that I heard. CHETRY: I hear you, but what is it that James Carville said. I like that, "a mell of a hess" that we've created for ourselves here.

ROBERTS: "A Mell of a hess."

CHETRY: Meanwhile, it is 30 minutes past the hour. We check our top stories. New York City police officials reportedly have been replaced now in the aftermath of the Denver and New York terror raids.

According to "The New York Times," his terror unit disrupted the sensitive federal investigation that is still ongoing right now. The feds led these -- these raids, rather, led to three arrests and warnings of possible strikes on transit stadiums as well as hotels.

ROBERTS: The group ACORN is suing two filmmakers who secretly recorded their employees. The tapes showed conservative activists posing as a pimp and a prostitute getting advice from ACORN employees on setting up a brothel from underage girls from El Salvador.

The law suit claims that Maryland law was violated because the employees were recorded without their consent. They recorded the videos in Baltimore and three other cities. Maryland is a two-party consent state. Both parties involved in the taping have to be aware of and agree to the taping.

CHETRY: And the governor of the Massachusetts will name an interim replacement for the late Senator Ted Kennedy this morning. We're learning, Democratic sources just into us right now, saying that one person who is being tapped, somebody close to the Kennedy family, actually, saying that the person that will be picked is actually former Democratic Party chair Paul Kirk.

This is somebody who was a front-runner, but, again, we're just learning this right now, that he will be the pick.

ROBERTS: We should know later on today what's happening there.

Just months after announcing a new counterinsurgency strategy for Afghanistan, the Obama administration is in the midst of another tumultuous review. General Stanley McChrystal says without more troops, the mission in Afghanistan could end in failure. President Obama, though, wants to consider other options.

Joining us from Washington this morning to talk about the conflict and the best way forward in Afghanistan, retired Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, former assistant secretary of state for political and military affairs, and Steven Biddle. He's a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and a member of the group that helped write the assessment that General McChrystal has given to the administration.

Stephen, let's start with you. You've made three trips to Afghanistan. You were there most recently in the summertime.

General McChrystal is pretty clear about what he thinks he needs. The White House though says that it wants to consider all options. This is their guy in Afghanistan, and yet they seem to be, at least on the surface, downplaying the requirements that he has.

STEPHEN BIDDLE, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Well, I don't think that the policy approach here is for civilians in government to simply uncritically accept what military officers tell them. Neither do I think the best policy for civilians is to just ignore what military officers tell them.

I think for our system to work, there has to be a healthy debate, a conversation, an interaction between the military that knows the military issues and civilian policymakers who have broader concerns and broader responsibilities than that.

If either side doesn't play its role and simply clams up and accepts uncritically what it's told, we get bad outcomes.

ROBERTS: General Kimmitt, what do you think about all of that, because General McChrystal is not just talking about a military strategy here, he's talking about an overall counterinsurgency strategy which includes a lot more than just the military piece?

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: First of all, I think Stephen's exactly right. And if you were to ask General McChrystal, he would say himself "My voice is only one voice in the process. I give my recommendations, I give my best military advice." Ambassador Eikenberry gives his best diplomatic advice. That goes into the Washington policy mill.

And at the end of the day, the president is going to be the one who has to make the ultimate decision.

ROBERTS: Stephen, at the end of the day, what do you think the administration is going to do? What do you think the president will do?

He's getting a lot of pressure from Democrats not to scale up the war. And yet there are some analysts who are suggesting that maybe what the president is doing is he's looking at all options here, saying -- so he can say to his constituents that he has weighed them all and eventually he'll go with General McChrystal's recommendations.

What do you think?

BIDDLE: What I hope the administration will do is adopt the policy that I personally think is the right one going forward, which is I think is General McChrystal's recommendations are sound and are a wise policy.

I think at the end of the day, the administration is likely to see it the same way.

But, again, I don't want them simply doing that because General McChrystal said so. I think it's entirely appropriate to challenge.

The central problem with U.S. security policy since 2003 has not been too much reexamination of basic premises. I don't think we're hurt by relooking this aggressively on a pretty frequent basis. ROBERTS: General Kimmitt, what do you think is best way forward? I ask the question in the context that Vice President Joe Biden is floating an idea which would scale back U.S. forces in Afghanistan and focus more on rooting out Al Qaeda, particularly in Pakistan.

Can you do that? Can you draw down troops -- do we have the abilities to draw down troops in Afghanistan, potentially leave parts of that country, to a greater degree, to the Taliban than they are now, and go after Al Qaeda without Afghanistan going back to the bad old days where it becomes a base, as General McChrystal has suggested it could, for terrorists to act out of?

KIMMITT: I think you've answered your own question. Sure you can draw troops down. Sure you can focus exclusively on a counterterrorism strategy.

The lack of troop presence on the ground is going to dry up your intelligence, and the lack of our ability to work and protect the population is going to mean the population will not be on our side as well.

If you want to see an example of where the type of strategy that's being talked about for Afghanistan as currently undergoing, look at pre-9/11 Afghanistan and the success or lack thereof that we had, but even more importantly today in Somalia.

We are attempting that strategy in Somalia. It is having some episodic successes. But to suggest that we have destroyed Al Shabaab in Somalia, an Al Qaeda affiliate, by the use of this tactic is just not correct, and I expect the same would happen in Afghanistan.

ROBERTS: So General Kimmitt, you heard Stephen Biddle say he thinks ultimately the best course of action is General McChrystal's suggestions. Do you agree with that?

KIMMITT: Well, first of all, I think that his input, Stan's input is very, very important. I believe that there will be some parts that are accepted, some parts that are not accepted.

But I think fundamentally, I would hope fundamentally the core issue, continuing the counterinsurgency strategy, which not only includes counterinsurgency operations, but counterterrorism operations, at this point would be the best strategy to achieve our national objectives in Afghanistan.

ROBERTS: And Stephen, one question more and more people seem to be asking these days. We're eight years into this war. We're no further ahead, in fact, further behind than we were in 2002. Can this war be won?

BIDDLE: I think the war can be won if it's properly resourced and if we pursue the right policies. Now, war is an uncertain business. I don't think anybody can guarantee an outcome in a war, especially not a counterinsurgency.

But I think there's a reasonable prospect of success, if the United States does the right things. And those things are hard, and those things are hard and they involved sacrifice and expenditure.

ROBERTS: Stephen Biddle, General Mark Kimmitt, good to talk to you this morning. Thanks so much for your expert analysis. We really appreciate it.

BIDDLE: Thank you.

KIMMITT: Thank you.

ROBERTS: Coming up now on 38 minutes after the hour.

Joe Perry, lead guitarist from Aerosmith, coming up live in just a couple of minutes to talk about rock stars of science.

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CHETRY: There you go. That is the biggest Aerosmith fan in the world, one of our stage managers, Jay. He always wears an Aerosmith T-shirt, but today it actually fits into what we're talking about.

ROBERTS: We were talking to Joe Perry just a second ago, and you were saying that we thought he only owned one T-shirt, but he's got an entire wardrobe.

CHETRY: It's dedicated to Aerosmith. Well, how about that?

As we said, we are talking to Joe Perry, the group's leading guitarist. He's also joining a star-studded lineup including Will.i.am, Sheryl Crowe, Josh Groban, and Seal for a good cause.

ROBERTS: They're calling themselves Rock Stars of Science, and they're heading to Capitol Hill trying to raise awareness for critical, life-saving medical research.

Here to talk more about it, Aerosmith cofounder and lead guitarist Joe Perry. Joe, great to see you, thanks for being with us this morning.

JOE PERRY, LEAD GUITARIST, AEROSMITH: Thanks for having me.

CHETRY: We know you're in Washington. Today's the day of the big concert kickoff. What are you guys hoping to see happen with all of your efforts and all of your star power combined?

PERRY: Well, I think the whole thing is to show the -- that there's a lot of glamour behind the career of being a scientist.

And we clearly need scientists. A lot of studies have shown that America is falling behind in turning out scientists. There are a number of countries that are like far surpassing us in that, and we need scientists and we need them now.

I mean, they're the ones that are leading the charge in medicine and everything from global warming to having enough food on the planet, everything. And it's just a very important, very important cause. ROBERTS: Rock Stars of Science have got a number of goals, including building a broader base of support for research as a national priority, supporting more young scientists, improving techniques for early diagnosis, not accepting "no cure" when it comes to a disease.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but you almost had a career -- not almost had a career as a scientist -- that was one of the things you were originally thinking about as a young boy?

PERRY: Yes. Well, very often in interviews, people ask me, well, what would you have done if you weren't a rock star or didn't become a musician?

And as long as I can remember, I've wanted to be a marine biologist. And as soon as I could get in the water, I had a connection with the ocean and with being in the water. I felt like I belonged there. I was totally fascinated by marine life, and I really wanted to become actually one of Jacques Cousteau's helpers. I would have done anything to do it.

(LAUGHTER)

But because I never did well in school back then, they didn't have the understandings of the different way of teaching people. I just didn't do well in school, and obviously, the way to get to be a scientist, you've got to do some time in college.

CHETRY: Yes.

PERRY: And, you know, I would -- I was tested, and all my tests came back above average. And all they could say, well, you've got to work hard and study harder. And it just, it was very disheartening.

And now there are a lot more avenues of ways for people to follow their dreams. And in this case, obviously, I'm here to advocate the need for more scientists.

ROBERTS: He may not have thrived under calypso, but did pretty well for himself.

CHETRY: Absolutely. I'm sure there are millions of fans out there that are glad that you picked up the guitar and didn't follow Jacques Cousteau.

But you bring up a good point, and that is about encouraging kids to try to do this and to understand that there is a lot of pride to be had in being able to help in careers that don't seem as glamorous as being a rock star.

So if there are kids sitting there and saying, if I had a choice of being Joe Perry or being a scientist at NIH, I'm going to pick Joe Perry. What do you say to them?

PERRY: Well, just for an example, today we're going to have a closed session and a speech and kind of a presentation. And then we're going to play, I'm we're going to play with a few of the actual top scientists. One of them a harmonica player and a keyboard player and another one of them is a guitar player, and we're going to jam.

That's where the meeting ground is. What they've found is the creativity that an artist has, and in my case being a musician, and the creativity that goes on with being a scientist, the same parts of the brains light up. So there's a lot of the same kind of excitement and imagination that people can get out being scientists.

And there is a lot of glamour in being a scientist. One of the doctors that we're going to be playing with today is a Pulitzer Prize winner and it's -- there's a lot going on there. I mean, they have their own set of glamour and parties and all that. And it's really something that's -- it's really fascinating.

ROBERTS: Hey, Joe, just before we go, the last time that we saw Aerosmith was on the road at the Sturgis at a motorcycle rally back in August. Stephen Tyler fell off the stage. What's the deal? Have you talked to him yet and what's happening with Aerosmith?

PERRY: Well, right now we're kind of taking a step back. Over the last three years, we've had -- things have kind of fallen out of our usual routine.

And after the -- his second accident and having to cancel the tour, we decided to -- as the time went by, we decided to pull back and just kind of take a vacation or a hiatus, so to speak.

And we're not really sure when we'll start, so I've been concentrating on my new solo record. It will be out October 6th. And we're starting to do gigs and I'm going to bring the Joe Perry project out on the road.

And we'll be starting touring -- actually, our first gig was last weekend, and we'll probably tour right up until when Aerosmith starts working again.

CHETRY: Wow, you are certainly busy. It's called "Have Guitar, Will Travel." And I think the first single is out right now, but October 6th is when the album comes out. Congratulations on that, and it was great to talk to you this morning.

PERRY: Thank you.

ROBERTS: Really appreciate it, Joe. Good luck with the Rock Stars of Science.

PERRY: Thanks for having me.

CHETRY: It's 48 minutes past the hour right now.

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CHETRY: It's 52 minutes past the hour. A look at Atlanta, Georgia, today. It's cloudy there, 71 degrees. A little bit later, some isolated thunderstorms, a high of 84. Our Rob Marciano telling us it shouldn't be too bad on top of, of course, the devastation from all the flooding that took place a few days ago.

Welcome back to the most news in the morning. For millions of Americans, unemployment has become a painful fact of life. First, there's the trauma of being laid off, and then comes the realization that finding a job is a full-time job in this economy.

So how are people coping? Poppy Harlow has this week's "Money & Main Street" report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM (voice-over): Rachel Gold and Anthony Barberio don't have much in common. Rachel is 28 and worked in recruiting after graduating from college. Anthony is 46. He worked on Wall Street for 20 years but he never went to college. The thing they do have in common, a long job search after being laid off.

Rachel lost her job back in November.

RACHEL GOLD, SEARCHING FOR JOB: I definitely didn't think that I would be sitting here, you know, nine months later, you know, without employment.

ANTHONY BARBERIO, SEARCHING FOR A JOB: When I first was let go, I figured, maybe a month, two months, you know, and I didn't think it would last this long.

HARLOW: For Anthony it's been more than a year since he was laid off, and each day brings more work to find work.

GOLD: This afternoon at 2:30, I have a recruiting meeting with somebody that I was networking with. Tomorrow morning at 10:00 I have another meeting with a recruiter. I'm not sure if they have positions, but just to do some networking.

HARLOW: Rachel spends a lot of her time making business connections, using social networking sites, and she also applies for jobs online every day.

HARLOW (on camera): So you've applied for more than 650 jobs?

GOLD: Correct.

HARLOW: How many interviews have you had out of that?

GOLD: Maybe 10.

HARLOW (voice-over): Anthony has applied for hundreds of jobs too, and he's using employment agencies in his search. But when his unemployment benefits run out, he'll be forced to stop looking on Wall Street and take any job he can find.

BARBERIO: Well, I'm going to put like a deadline as to when I'm going to have to really, seriously, you know, look for something, whether it be a department store or something like that.

GOLD: These are people that I've e-mailed.

HARLOW: Until a job comes along, Rachel has started a blog, kickedforward.com, based on the quote, "When life kicks you, let it kick you forward."

GOLD: It's difficult, but I think I'm just trying to be as optimistic as possible that I'll find a position soon.

HARLOW: Rachel says she started to get more interviews since we first talked with her in August, and despite the tough job market, Anthony says he's hearing about more openings and hoping one of them is for him.

BARBERIO: I'm anxious to get back to work. You know, almost a year in a house could drive somebody crazy.

HARLOW: Poppy Harlow, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHETRY: And by the way, if you are searching for work after a layoff, head to CNN.com/moneyandmainstreet. On that site they have some tips on networking and interviewing and getting a new job.

And also while you're there you can do a financial health test. You can plug in your age and your salary and you can find out how much you're saving and spending to see how you score.

And for more stories on people surviving in a tough economy, watch money and main street reports tonight, 8:00 eastern, right here on CNN.

It's 55 minutes past the hour.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONAN O'BRIEN, HOST, "THE LATE SHOW": Gadhafi's speech, this is crazy, it went over 90 minutes. I think he was supposed to speak for 15 minutes. He went over 90, and, as usual, he was all over the place. Take a look at this.

(Inaudible)

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

CHETRY: Love Conan. That was a good one.

ROBERTS: That was very funny.

Continue the conversation on today's top stories. Go to our blog at CNN.com/amfix.

That's going to wrap it up for us. We'll see you back here bright and early tomorrow morning after being up late tonight at the U2 concert tonight.

CHETRY: Have fun. You better go home and take a nap because you'll be hating life tomorrow.

ROBERTS: Yes, probably. This will be an interesting exercise in human physiology tomorrow, but well worth it.

CHETRY: We'll both be here, some of us more awake than others. We'll bring the Starbucks for you, John.

Meanwhile, here is Heidi Collins with "CNN NEWSROOM."