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Special Edition: The G-20; G-20 Leaders Gather in Pittsburgh to Discuss Everything From the Economy to the Environment; Harrison Ford Speaks Out on Climate Change

Aired September 27, 2009 - 15:00   ET


CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN HOST: Pittsburgh steels itself for the world. The G-20 leaders behind closed doors taking on everything from the economy to the environment, the stakes have never been higher. Banks are blamed for getting us into this mess. Now a global dispute over those huge banker bonuses threaten to unravel the G-20.




ROMANS: As world leaders tackle carbon emissions can Indiana Jones save the world in real life? Harrison Ford speaking out on climate change. Settle into your front row seat at three rivers. It is time to talk YOUR MONEY.

Welcome to this very special edition of YOUR MONEY. I'm Christine Romans. We're here in Pittsburgh where the G-20 is gathering this very important summit of world leaders this weekend. Ali Velshi is going to join us in a moment.

What's happening here? International bureaucrats have been negotiating behind-the-scenes ahead of this world leader event for weeks now. Who has the most to lose, who has the most to gain. What is at stake? And behind that very famous photo op who cares.


ROMANS (voice over): Meetings, meetings, meetings, London, New York, now Pittsburgh, 20 world leaders representing two-thirds of the world's people and 90 percent of its money. It's the world's most powerful photo op. Here they are in London in April. The new guy, the banker, the lady's man. The guy who threatens to walk out.

And the reckless and the obsessing over first lady fashion and perceived faux pas. At that meeting leaders pledged a trillion dollars in stimulus for the global economy. A crisis was averted. The stock market jumped almost 30 percent since then. Next challenge, prevent another financial disaster. They differ on how to do that.

TIMOTHY GEITHNER, TREASURY SECRETARY: We're not going walk away from the greatest economic crises since the great depression and leave unchanged and leave in place the tragic vulnerabilities that cause this crises.

ROMANS: The Americans want banks to hold more money aside to cover the risks they take. Europeans want tougher restrictions on banker pay. You may hear talk about so called global imbalances. It means the Americans need to save more and borrow less. The Europeans need investment and the Chinese they need to consume more.

There are 20 leaders but two standouts. The new American president, an international star on the campaign trail hosting his first summit. And China, already out of recession and on track to overtake Germany in exports. Economists Ken Rogoff says China is doing very well for itself.

KEN ROGOFF, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Countries are looking at China and saying, wait a second; you've got to pull back your exports a little bit. You're making it tough. You're benefiting at the expense of everybody else.

ROMANS: All are watching a trade spat between China and the U.S. over tires and chickens. The two countries are also the world's largest greenhouse gas emitters. Climate change on the agenda but that won't be solved here.


ROMANS: Oh, no it won't. There are more meetings ahead. Copenhagen in December where climate change is on the agenda. And, of course the big news is that the G-20 will replace the G-8 as a mechanism for negotiation of international financial stuff. All of this stuff Ed Henry and Richard Quest from CNN International.

All of these things are kind of why the G-20 matters because this is about bringing in the other countries of the world and discussing economic policies and the future of money, I guess.

ED HENRY, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. They are widening the circle. That's the significance of the change from G- 8 to G-20. This is the front organization. You bring in the so called brick countries, Brazil, Russia, India and China as well. Russia was part of the G-8 but now you broaden the circles.

Some of the countries like Italy and Germany might not be so happy that more are at the table. But when you are trying to deal with climate change you have to have India and China and Brazil at the table. When you are dealing with all these major economic issues if China is not at the table it's sort of absurd. That's why they are widening the circle.

ROMANS: You know, Richard Quest, one of the other things they are talking about too is widening the influence of developing nations in the IMS and at some of the other world financial structures. How does it play from where you sit?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN HOST: I think Ed Henry has been in the sun for a little too long in Pittsburgh. Ed, you know that what they are saying behind-the-scenes is that 20 countries is too many. It's a recipe for the old idea of divide and rule, and more crucially nobody believes that a G-20 forum exits after a crisis will be able to make the necessary agreement. There are too many countries with too many different agendas to not write off the G-8 as a monetary basis policy coordinating authority just yet.

ROMANS: Don't write it off just yet. We talked earlier this week with Michael Froman; he is what I guess you call the Sherpa for the U.S. This is the guy behind the U.S. negotiations over the past weeks that they have come in to this. We asked him how did this meeting, this G-20, how is this going to affect people sitting at home?

Listen to what he said.


MICHAEL FROMAN, DEP. NATL. SEC. ADVISER, INT. ECON. AFFAIRS: The overall objectives of the summit are to put in place policies and procedures to establish growth going forward. Including growth that will lead to liquidation of goods, decent jobs.

So, if successful we'll see good concerted action on economic policy across the G-20 that will benefit the United States and in terms of our jobs here and exports and like. The second piece is we're very committed using summits like this and the G-20 process to put in place regulatory reform to prevent future crises from occurring.

ROMANS: When we talk about the financial regulatory reform some of our international friends they fret that we are not working fast enough. They are worried that so much heat and light is coming out of the health care reform debate that we're losing momentum on that at home. What do you say to that?

FROMAN: I think the president, and our entire administration has been very focused on this issue and made great strides forward. Both in what they can do through executive action, but also putting forward 600 pages of legislation.

ROMANS: The Europeans want to talk about financial reform and banker pay first and foremost. There's this other issue of how to promote balanced growth. What does that mean when we talk about addressing global imbalances?

FROMAN: Sure. Well in terms of global imbalances I think we recognize that we want to come out of this crisis in a way that does not allow the sort of imbalances that contributed to the crises to reemerge. That means a lot of us need to go through adjustments here in the United States.

There are adjustments to make a saving rates increase. In other countries it is an adjustment from export to more domestic demand or consumer led growth and every where there's a need to do structure reform to increase the prospects for a higher conjectury.


ROMANS: Richard Quest let me ask you something. When I talked to him I gave him several chances to put regulatory reform first. But imbalances, global imbalances were the first thing he wanted to talk about. Also, the first thing the treasury secretary wanted to talk about. That's diplomatically significant, isn't it?

QUEST: It is significant they want to talk about it. It is also the single most difficult subject to do. That is a philosophical issue. It goes to cultural differences between countries; it goes deep into the heart of nations economies. You and I can sit here and bore the pants off people talking about global rebalancing until the cows come home and not a job gets done. That's why they love to talk about it.

Let's have a dose of reality about this. What the G-20 would like to see is our nations adopt macro economic policies that mean the Americans save more, the Chinese spend more, and the Europeans invest more. Well merely saying it isn't going to make it happen.

The truth is they are going to get regulatory reform. Everyone agrees on that. They are going to get banker bonuses, everybody agrees something on that. They are going to get hodgepodge around the edges. But the big issues go to the core, Christine, of how we live our life in our various countries.

ROMANS: That is very, very true. We've already seen the Americans saving more and it is not because of any thing any government is saying, it's because they are stunned by a financial crises. Ed Henry, where do we go from here then? There was such urgency in April. A trillion dollars in stimulus, a lot of people say it worked. Are we going to get that take away Ed, from this summit?

HENRY: That is the key; we are going to have to see. Because I think the president, President Obama realizes that we're still in sort of a jobless recovery right now despite all that stimulus number one. Number two, moving forward from here, there's still is not a lot of substance about what kind of regulatory reform we're going to have.

You have these leaders talking about it, signing pledges in the like but the real hard work is done for the U.S. for example back on Capitol Hill where there's not a lot of momentum right now. That's why the president can be here with the other leaders and talk a lot about it but the action is really going to have to come on the hill.

ROMANS: All right. Ed Henry, also Richard Quest in London, thank you gentlemen. Can G-20 save the world? What about climate change and the banker bonus outrage. We've got the ticker, that's coming up next.


ALI VELSHI, CNN HOST: Let's turn to the ticker where we're taking you beyond the headlines and looking closer at some of the stories that you may have missed. I'm joined by Benjamin Barber; he is the author "Consumed, How Markets Corrupt Children and Fantalize Adults and Swallow Citizens Whole." And of course, Peter Schiff, he is the author of the little book "Bull Moves in a Bear Market."

Gentlemen thank you to both of you. I always wonder, and certainly we always wonder at CNN what things, a G-20 come up what sort of coverage we should afford to it. How important are these summits to every day lives? Let's start with you, Benjamin.

BENJAMIN BARBER, AUTHOR, "CONSUMED, HOW MARKETS CURRUPT:" They are important because they represent not just Europe, the United States, Asia and Latin America but they represent the international monetary fund and the world bank. It's really financial ministers and people in charge of the global economy getting together. Whether they do something or not isn't the point. The question is whatever they do or don't do is going to impact our lives. So we need to watch what they are doing closely.

VELSHI: Globalization, Peter, good or bad?

PETER SCHIFF, PRESIDENT, EURO PACIFIC CAPITAL: There's a lot of hypocrisy though, going on at the G-20. Because remember Barack Obama has stated that, you know, he wants to try to address the global economic imbalances which we need to do. Barack Obama says that Americans need to save more and that the Chinese need to spend more.

But how can we do that? We're running nearly a $2 trillion deficit pursuing his programs. How can Americans possibly save more when the government is leading the charge deeper into debt and how can the Chinese spend more when they are lending us all their money.

VELSHI: Let's have our G-3 right now. Benjamin what do you think about that? Peter has been on this case about how the government shouldn't have been involved in the bailout, they shouldn't been involved in stimulus, they shouldn't have been spending any of this money that gets us further into debt.

BARBER: Peter is running for office. I'm just trying to figure out what's going on in the world. And the difference about that is that if you are going to say Obama is the problem and the banks are the solution you got it exactly backwards. The financial institutions brought us into these crises.

Government under Obama's leadership is helping us get out and the real question is whether we're going allow the government to do what it needs to do to regulate the banks to bring them under control or you are going to turn things back over to the same banks.

VELSHI: Topic number two regulation. There are a number of people at G-20 who are in favor of massive centralized regulation for some of these financial institutions which Peter even you have to agree drove us into this abyss.

SCHIFF: Well it was the government, it was the Federal Reserve and Congress that provided the moral hazard that regulated the banks into this crises.

VELSHI: Moral hazard. You mean that they provided them with a place to land?

SCHIFF: Well first of all the Federal Reserve was giving money away under Alan Greenspan and now it is giving it away even more under Ben Bernanke. But then you have the Federal government guaranteeing all these debts. The government was guaranteeing the obligations of Fannie and Freddie. The government was encouraging people to make all these risky loans with out that government enticement, without those guarantees none of these risky loans ever would have taken place.

ROMANS: How about this is a starting point Benjamin? What about bonuses, bonuses for CEOs of financial companies, senior executives of financial companies. We don't seem to be making the headway that every average Americans would like us to be making.

BARBER: Two points, one, I agree that we shouldn't have bailed out the banks. Give them a good dose of capitalism. They go under, they go under. We did it. Once we did it the banks had no right to be once again making these $100 million bonus packages for people who are taking risks and they are being rewarded for the short term risk they take when in the long term financial consequences has been disastrous.

There has to be limits on bonuses. I'm all for bonuses but it has to be a bonus when you do good not when you do bad. We're rewarding people for short term risk taking that's been disastrous and penalizing them for long term conservatism and prudence.

SCHIFF: This is a slippery slope. We should have let these companies fail. These executives should have gotten pink slips not bonus. But now that the government has bailed them out they are now public utilities. Now investment bankers are civil servants and obviously they are overpaid and now the government has to step in and control it. But it would have been much better if we let these institutions fail.

VELSHI: Is it important that we all get together these 20 nations and have these discussion or should America decide to regulate the way it wants to and let Europe do what it wants to, and let Canada and Japan do what they want to do?

SCHIFF: It would be if they can accomplish something. What I would like to see is nations like China to tell the United States we're not buying your t-bills any more. So you have to get your house in order.

VELSHI: Would you really like to see that because we would all suffer if that happens?

SCHIFF: No, we wouldn't suffer, the government would suffer. We would benefit. The government is taking all of this money and using it to expand government and just undermine our market economy. They are leading us to debt.

BARBER: Just talk about the government as if it's some foreign democracy. The government is our representatives, our people representing the public our interests against banks which claim to do that but in fact pursue their own interests in disastrous ways ...

SCHIFF: It's the politicians.

BARBER: American people ... SCHIFF: The politicians ...

BARBER: That's the government. That's us.

VELSHI: What are you going too differently? You're running for office. What will you do? Because you're going to get in there if you win and you're now going to be part of the government.

SCHIFF: Right. I got to go there to clean up the mess; the government is the source of these problems. They have regulated and printed our way into bankruptcy. The economy is a mess in the United States right now. We're consuming too much.

BARBER: They are the heroes.

SCHIFF: No. They took that cheap money supplied by the Federal Reserve. They got drunk on the Federal Reserve's alcohol. I want to make sure we stop supplying alcohol to the bankers and Wall Street. We need sound money and we need to shrink government not grow it.

VELSHI: Last word to you?

BARBER: What we need is policies that support American taxpayers, American consumers, that keep Americans in their homes where mortgage defaults that happened to allow Americans to get back into the economy not policies that prop up over spent banks that were the problem to begin with.

VELSHI: I only hope they have that good of a conversation at the G-20. Thanks so much gentlemen. Benjamin Barber is the Sr. Fellow at Demost (ph) and the author of "Consumed, How Markets Corrupt." And Peter Schiff is the author of "Crash Proof 2.0." He is also the Republican candidate for the Senate in Connecticut -- Christine.

ROMANS: Ali, with the land down under can teach us about stabilizing our own economy I go one on one with the treasure of the Commonwealth of Australia. That's next.


ROMANS: Leaders from all corners of the globe have come here to Pittsburgh for the G-20 summit to try to find ways to fix the global financial infrastructure so that we never have another collapse like we did last year. A lot of different things they are talking about.

They are talking about how to reform the financial regulatory framework, they are talking about global imbalances, and they are talking about expanding the financial infrastructure to include the G- 20 as the place for diplomacy about money issues instead of the G-8 where the G-8 would remain as the place where you talk about security issues.

All of these things we want to talk to somebody who has been inside these meetings, inside this event is Australia's treasurer, the treasurer of the Commonwealth of Australia, Wayne Swan. He joins me now, you know, Australia's economy has fared relatively well. The economy is shrinking a little bit this year but it has fared better than most other places during this global recession. Why is that?

WAYNE SWAN, TREASURER, AUSTRALIA: Well, we've had the fastest growth of any major based economy, a lot of deficits. There are a number of reasons for that, but one of the prime reasons is our commitment to strong and powerful economic stimulus in the early stages. That's been very important. The other part of our success is the strength of our banking system and of course our location in Asia.

ROMANS: Let me ask you about that stimulus, because one of the things we're hearing here from the G-20 from other leaders as well, is they want to make sure we don't withdraw this global stimulus to soon, wait until a global economic recovery is well underway. What has the negotiations been like about that?

SWAN: Well certainly I think the view across the board is that if it were to be withdrawn too early that would be a big risk. It could risk stalling the recovery. And recognize that we need exit strategies but the time isn't now.

ROMANS: Let me ask you about the time for climate change discussion. The time many say for that is now. But we've been doing a lot of talking since Kyoto, for years we've been talking about this. Is there momentum on this? Is there momentum as we go forward to Copenhagen in December and from your perspective I'm interested, you know, you are, Australia is the largest per capita greenhouse gas emitter. Not the largest overall, the largest per capita where do you fit into this?

SWAN: Well climate change is a big issue for the globe and it is a big issue for our country. We take it very seriously. We have a carbon reduction policy in legislation. We're very committed. Very committed to seeing substantial global action and national action in this area and we are certainly working very hard on these issues through the G-20 going forward to Copenhagen.

ROMANS: What do you say to people who say meetings, meetings, you know there is the U.N., G-20 in April and now they are talking about G-20 versus G-8. What do you say to your citizens and our viewers why does G-20 matter to me?

SWAN: Well I warmly welcome President Obama to the G-20 as the premiere economic body to coordinate national and international economic policies. That's very important.


SWAN: Because it brings the developing world together with the developed world. This brings our arrangements into the 21st century. This body does have a role along with the U.N. in responding to climate change which after all ...

ROMANS: Does it make it more unyielding when you have more people who are at the table with their own interest but also trying to speak for the globe and coordinate for the globe?

SWAN: Well the G-20 is a very important body. It represents about 85 percent of global GDP. It brings developing countries together. It's very important. I'm sure that when we communicate today it will have a role in climate change.

ROMANS: All right. Wonderful. Wayne Swan the treasurer of Australia. Thank you so much, sir. Really appreciate it.

America needs China's money; China needs a place to sell its products. That's to the good old United States., so why this trade tension, why this riff why tires and chickens are important in U.S./Chinese relations?

Plus my conversation with Harrison Ford on big business and what they can do right now to contribute to real reform for climate change. Oh yeah, there is also that little question about yet another Indiana Jones movie. Yes I asked him. He didn't have a bull whip. But we will have the scoop.


ROMANS: Welcome back. We're here in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania at the gathering of the G-20. It is the summit of the wealthiest nation, most powerful nations but also some of the most rapidly developing countries. It is 20 different countries that represent together 90 percent of global output in two-thirds of the world's population.

And one of the things they are talking about here is as some of these developed nations start to come out of recession, not forgetting the poorest countries and making sure they are not left behind. To talk about that, we brought John Lipsky he is the first deputy managing director at the IMF.

Tell me about the importance of making sure that we're opening up the discussion about how we go forward by bringing in the developing nations as well.

JOHN LIPSKY, FIRST DEPUTY MANAGING DIRECTOR, IMF: This has been an important step forward at this G-20 summit in which it has been decided that this grouping will be the central discussion for economic events.

ROMANS: So instead of the G-8, G-20 now with more members like Brazil, Russia, India, and China some big fast growing economies.

LIPSKY: Exactly. But also there's important recognition that the recession has hit hard the poorest countries, countries in Africa and elsewhere. And that there is a need not just of the richest countries but the fast growing developing countries all to pay attention to provide support for growth in the poorest countries.

ROMANS: How do you make sure that, you know, leaders can say at a G-20 meeting or at a summit we're committed to helping the poorest countries but how do you make sure that they really follow through? That's where the IMF comes in right?

LIPSKY: IMF and the World Bank and its development partners in the multi lateral development banks, the regional developing banks, there are some specific measures that are being put in, including providing a $20 billion fund led by the World Bank for food security and other issues. In other words there are specifics. Of course, the follow up will be important. But the spirit here is to act.

ROMANS: You know, for people who are watching this at home this weekend they are saying G-20 another big global summit. I know in April in London there was a big global stimulus that was put through and that may have really helped avert a real disaster in the global economy. Can the American people and people really around the world look at this summit and say something specifically happened that will change their life?

LIPSKY: Well, it's not like a light switch but we don't have the crisis that we had earlier this year.

ROMANS: Thank goodness.

LIPSKY: The G-20 acting together definitely produced action that resulted in a turning point in the global economy. There's recognition now that the challenge going forward is going to starting and sustaining balanced growth and that is going to require broad cooperation.

ROMANS: Let me ask you about where we stand in the global economy then, for people who in the United States are hearing that there are glimmers of hope, that the economy might be turning around but they are still looking at very high unemployment rates that are still going to be a problem both here and a broad isn't it?

LIPSKY: Absolutely. We do expect that the global economy will be growing next year -- will be growing next year but it's still risky and it is going to still take concerted action to make that happen.

ROMANS: Cautious optimism.

LIPSKY: Indeed.

ROMANS: OK. John Lipsky, IMF. Thank you so much.

LIPSKY: Thank you Christine.

ROMANS: Two countries, one is the biggest economy in the world, the other is the fastest growing economy in the world and both players are really the stars here at the G-20. It is the United States and its China and a little trade riff here that it is providing a little undercurrent of drama.

Let me tell you what this is about, you know the math is simple. China is on track to become the largest exporter, ahead of Germany and the United States is China's second largest trade partner. While China buys $70 billion were of U.S. goods each year, we import nearly five times that much from China.

The relationship works both ways. China is the largest holder of our government debt. That means we need a strong Chinese economy to fund our massive deficit. The U.S. needs China, China needs the U.S., so why are Beijing and Washington having so much trouble getting along, or are they?

Gordon Chang is the author of "The Coming Collapse of China." And from Hong Kong we bring in Michael Schuman he is the "Times" Asia business correspondent. Gentlemen, thanks for joining us. All eyes on China and the U.S. and the relationship, any perceived riff here at the G-20? Michael first tell me what's happening here since this trade spat erupted, is there really an increase in tension between these two important trading partners?

MICHAEL SCHUMAN, ASIA BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT, "TIME:" Well, the meeting between President Obama and President Hu went quite cordially. I'm so worried that this trade spat can spill over into other aspects of the U.S./China relationship. U.S. and China have a tremendous amount of work to do. They are the two stars of the G-20.

There's actually a joke that goes on around here, that the G-20 is actually the G-2 and the G-0, the G-2 being the China and the U.S. People are looking to the two countries to solve the world's problems, to get the economy back on a growth path, to tackle climate change. And there's a fear that this trade spat is going to sour the pot and distract them from dealing with these much more important issues.

ROMANS: Gordon Chang what is the American administration policy towards China? Has it changed? Has the Obama administration by putting a 35 percent tariff on these imported tires from China, are they changing the game from the Bush administration?

GORDON CHANG, AUTHOR, "THE COMING COLLAPSE OF CHINA:" Well, I think to a certain extent yes they are because the Bush administration was presented with four of these section 421 tariff applications and it turned them all down. The Obama administration certainly has approved the one on tires.

I think we're going to see more of these because there's a concern that China has not been living up to its trade obligations, and clearly there have been surges of Chinese products into the United States. This is taking place in an era of declining global trade. In March the World Bank said that global trade will decline the most this year it has in 80 years. This is really significant.

ROMANS: Gordon let me ask you something, because at this G-20 summit the treasury secretary and the lead negotiator for the Americans, both of them talking about global trade imbalances, how some countries we assume they are talking about China, some countries have to start spending more money. Not relying on exports but spending more of their domestic money and other countries have to save more and spend less. That's clearly the United States and China, right?

CHANG: Certainly. You look at the Chinese economy right now; it is certainly export dependent, perhaps 38 percent of its gross domestic product is attributable to exports. Less than 20 percent is attributable to consumption. That's lowest rate by far in the world. That's completely unsustainable. The Chinese are trying export their way out of the global downturn but their export receipts are declining and they have been declining now for every month since November. The Chinese path is unsustainable they are going to have to develop their local economy.

ROMANS: Michael, let me ask you something about the perception here about China's rise over the past year and frankly the feeling that the United States has faltered and its global leadership has faltered over the past year in the wake of a financial crises that was born in the United States. Over the past year has China strengthened its economy and managed to rise from the ashes here but the United States is still kind of faltering?

SCHUMAN: I think the Chinese economy is what really surprised a lot of people and how quickly things rebounded. At the end of 2008 when the credit crunch really set in, exports were falling, people in China were quite nervous about what might happen but they've done an excellent job with their stimulus plan.

They have done an excellent job with starting to stimulate domestic consumption, getting people to spend more. Because of that they are almost back up at the growth rates they were at before the crisis and its bean huge success. I think people around the world are looking and saying hey what is China doing right and what is the U.S. doing wrong?

ROMANS: Quick answer from both of you, one after the other. Michael, first is China a partner or an adversary for the United States?

SCHUMAN: I think China is a partner. I think China realizes it has to make changes in its own economy and has to work with the United States to do it.

ROMANS: Gordon Chang, is partner or adversary the label to put on China?

CHANG: Probably a little bit of both, clearly a trade partner. But in an era where the Chinese and the American economies are delinking and they certainly are because we're buying less -- we're buying less of their products. They are buying less of our debt. This is really a different situation going forward.

ROMANS: Gordon Chang, the book is "The Coming Collapse of China" and Michael Schuman the "Times" Asia business correspondent. Thank you both for joining us to talk about this very complicated and changing relationship.

China also wants to be a very big player in the fight against global warming. Tell you about another big player, a big actor in this fight, Harrison Ford from actor to activist what he's doing bringing a little bit of star power, Jack Ryan "Indiana Jones" to fight against global warming.


ROMANS: You may know him as Indiana Jones but the new crusade for Harrison Ford is saving the environment and 15 years on the board of the firm Conservation International means he has a pretty good deal of green creditability, green credit as they call it. Earlier this week I spoke with Ford in New York at an event for Team Earth a global sustainability movement which brought together the CEOs and the president of one country to pledge their commitment to climate change.

I asked him what the solution is to this growing problem. Take a look.


ROMANS (voice over): There are a lot of celebrities that have their hobbies. You really have a lot of green credit. You have been doing this for a long time.

HARRISON FORD, ACTOR, ACTIVIST: I've been a member of the board of CI for 15 years, and I mean my interest in the environment is long standing and I've been with CI because I think that they have great creditability and they have great strategic understanding and they have managed great things because we have a lot of important victories. But we need now finally to reach some kind of critical mass where we cannot be denied.

ROMANS: Cannot be denied. You need companies to help you to do this right?

FORD: We need companies, individuals, and governments and other NGOs. We presented a very fractured solution. Everybody has a different strategy. We talk on an issue by issue basis, species by species basis. What needs to be done now is -- history has shown us, when it comes to individual action no longer is effective enough. You need to create a movement like the Civil Rights Movement, like the Anti-War Movement, like the Youth Movement of the '60s. If we can come together in sufficient mass, the issues will be addressed.

ROMANS: Environmentalists have sometimes said that companies are part of the problem. Corporate America is part of the problem. You're embracing certain companies and CEOs saying look let's do this together.

FORD: Why deny anybody a place at the table. They may be part of the problem, some of them are. But they are a great part of the solution. Our alliances with corporations have shown us that they feel responsible to their consumers and their employees and they know that serving the environment is good business. It makes sense.

ROMANS: I recently sat down with nine CEOs from all different kinds of companies and I asked them we are in a middle of a recession, what about your environmental stability? Have you put it on the back burner or have you abandoned it?

Six of the nine told me they abandoned it. Because they couldn't say we are spending all this money on solar panels, but we are going to layoff a 100 people. It's tough right now. How do you balance what we have to do heading in to Copenhagen? What we have to do with the reality of a crushing global recession?

FORD: Well you know there are things we can do right away. We're lacking in technology to address certain issues. We have right now in front of us an issue that we can all militate against. We can all work to combine, to create a body of opinion, to address the issue that we spoke about today.

20 percent of the greenhouse gas emissions are caused by the destruction of rain forests for agricultural purposes, for logging, this is addressable. We don't need a new technology. We don't need to put a lot of money into it. We simply need to make it economically feasible and economically defensible to keep these standing forests there. That's a very low cost solution.

ROMANS: From activist to actor, what's next? A new Indy?

FORD: I got a couple of projects coming out next year and I have a project I'm probably going to start at the beginning the year. If it's a good script I'll be happy to do it.


VELSHI: Well it is not just the movie stars talking about the environment. World leaders met this week in New York to discuss climate change. The first meeting leading up to a major climate conference in Copenhagen in December. President Obama addressed the U.N. on Tuesday saying now is the time to combat climate change.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We know what needs to be done. We know our planet's future depends on a global commitment to permanently reduce greenhouse gas pollution. We know that if we put the right rules and incentives in place, we'll unleash the creative power of our best scientists and engineers and entrepreneurs to build a better world.


VELSHI: But will the president take the necessary action in the pivotal months to come? Howard Gould is an eco entrepreneur and he joins us now to explain what all of this is about. Obviously this is not the first time we've had a conversation about the environment.

We're talking about something that we know is Kyoto and now we are moving into Copenhagen which will be the catch all phrase for battling the effects of climate change for the years to come. Give us a very, very quick history lesson on Kyoto and where we are.

HOWARD GOULD, THE CLEAN ECONOMY NETWORK: Well Kyoto was basically a treaty that was signed in 1997. It was a 180 countries or so that were actually looking to stop green house gases or man made green house gases from being released in to the atmosphere. Because scientists recognized this was a problem. The problem is this is something that the U.S. did not sign on in 1997 because they felt that it was unfair advantage for up and coming countries or developing nations like China.

VELSHI: Tell me why? Because there were rules that were going to be imposed on how much the U.S. can emit and there was some sense that other countries if they didn't impose those rules all the dirty manufacturing would go over there.

GOULD: Exactly. So basically what they were saying is as a developed nation we had a much tighter set of rules that we had to abide by. And the worry was that all of a sudden all our manufacturing is going to go overseas in these developing nations. Now this is the big problem.

VELSHI: It kind of did anyway.

GOULD: It kind of did anyway which has posed a problem. This is a problem going into Copenhagen which will be in December is what do we do about this issue.

VELSHI: Is Copenhagen sort of rewriting the Kyoto rules or is a logical extension of it?

GOULD: It's a logical extension of it. I mean Kyoto will be finished in 2012. We need to figure out exactly what we are going to do. What is going to be the road map for us from this point on and what is the interaction between those developing nations and developed nations going to look like?

VELSHI: What do our viewers going to have to be listening for over the course of the next few months as we lead to Copenhagen that is going to be important to them? What are the catch words? What are the issues of tension there?

GOULD: I think the issues of tension are basically going to be what is the situation between China and the United States. And both of us have basically said that we have and we will look to do the right thing by the environment, moving forward into Copenhagen. Now it depends on which way the Senate is going to vote in the next coming months.

VELSHI: Let people get tuned into this and Howard we'll have more conversation about this as we get closer to Copenhagen. Howard Gould is an eco entrepreneur.

ROMANS: From hot air to hot jobs. We go on a global out job search, there are some jobs out there, and we take you outside of our borders to find them. That's next.


VELSHI: If you have been with us on the show in the past year, you have heard us talk about devastating job losses and unemployment in this country. The rest of the world continues to struggle as well. But we also spend a good deal of time telling you where in the world the jobs are? And some of those jobs are in fact outside of this country.

Jeff Joerres is the chairman and CEO of Manpower a company that specializes in employment services through out the world. Jeff thanks very much for joining us, again. You just did a recent survey on talent shortage and in fact learned that 30 percent of the world's companies, 30 percent of employers around the world have a shortage of people, they are looking for people. Tell us about this?

JEFF JOERRES, CHAIRMAN AND CEO, MANPOWER INC: This is a tough message when you are talking about a 30 percent shortage, on the other hand you are talking about some of the highest unemployment rates and it is not just here in the U.S., but in other places. And really what it comes down to is it could be best described as a talent mismatch.

Companies have gotten very specific in the kinds of skills they need. They know where they are trying to go and they are looking for if you will that needle in the hay stack. Because there isn't so much demand out there for their products and services, they can take the time to look for that needle in the hay stack. So I think that is really what you are seeing is companies are expressing themselves and saying I'm going to hire, but I'm going to be very selective in my hiring.

VELSHI: Let's take a look at those countries where companies are doing some of the most hiring according to this Manpower survey, we can show a picture of this, India, which we know is a major growth engine in the world. India tops that list forecasting employment growth of 34 percent, Brazil 21 percent, Taiwan 17 percent, Singapore 14 percent and Columbia 13 percent.

Jeff make sense of this for our viewers, what does it mean for them? Does that mean there are jobs if you go to these places? Are there other opportunities in doing business with these places or should you be working for companies that are based in these places?

JOERRES: Well, I think all those questions are valid and some of those will really depend on what kind of skills you have. Clearly you can make the migration from here in the U.S. or Western Europe into more of those high growth areas. Those high growth areas for the most part are really seeing two things that are driving growth.

One is they are positioned very nicely from a labor arbitrised perspective, or from a domestic market perspective. They are seeing their domestic market increase in spending in GDP growth more than what you would see in the U.S.

When you actually look at what's happening and what does it means to the U.S., this is a good thing. We are seeing most of the world, clearly Asia with the exception of Japan and almost all of Europe with the exception of Spain and a few other places starting to come out a little bit sooner than the U.S. in their hiring intentions. And this can actually help pull a little of the U.S. into a more robust environment.

ROMANS: On the contrary side we have some countries on your list which have the worst job outlook. Let's take a quick look at those. You have Spain which has a net employment outlook of negative 11 percent, Romania 11 percent as well, Ireland down 10 percent, Italy going to be off 5 percent, Japan, Czech Republic and Hungary are tied for the fifth spot at negative 4 percent and that supposedly means Jeff that people in those countries are going to be looking for opportunities along with Americans in those places where we are likely to see net employment growth. JOERRES: That's correct. Particularly here in Europe, we have a much more ability to move from one to the other. Spain is still suffering through a housing environment much what we saw in Arizona, and Florida, and California. That is what is happening in Spain. Ireland, really most of those tax abatements and incentives have blasted that economy up. And now they are struggling a bit. Eastern Europe is still getting a I wasn't really on my feet in this down turn to early to squeeze with Russia has really affected those economies.

VELSHI: Jeff Joerres always good to talk to you. Bring us information that our viewers can learn from and use. Good to see you again. Jeff Joerres is the chairman and CEO of Manpower Inc.

Back to Christine at the G-20.

ROMANS: OK, thanks Ali. Now what can we go do to move past Pittsburgh? What happens next and what you can do right now to make your own personal economy feel better.


ROMANS: Leaders and journalists from around the world are here at the G-20 in Pittsburgh. What's next? Let's ask someone who is watching all of this as well. Richard Quest, from CNN International Quest. Richard what happens from here?

QUEST: I think what happens from here is that the finance ministers and the people down in something known as the financial stability board, we really do get down into the plumbing. It's true. We have had the big drawings and they have told us what they would like. But really, now is the plumbing. Get the drains up. Put in new pipe. Decide where the money is going to flow. That's what happens next. That is rather unsexy bit of regulatory reform.

ROMANS: It is not very sexy but you know after ...

HENRY: Richard Quest talking about plumbing. You're right about that Christine. But I think to his point earlier about the G-20 versus the g 8, I mean look even on security issues we are seeing with what happened here on Iran and the new underground nuclear facility, it wasn't the G-20 that announced it, it was the key leaders not even the G-8 but it was the U.S., Britain, France. So on some security issues, on economic issues; it's still going to be the great powers that are going to be front and center.

ROMANS: All right. We have to leave it there gentleman. Sexy or not, the G-20 has been a remarkable event with an awful lot of pretty important people and a lot of fantastic commentary, including that Richard Quest. Thank you so much Richard Quest from CNN International and Ed Henry.

And that is it for us that wraps it up for this week. Ali Velshi and I will be here next week again Saturday at 1:00 p.m., Sunday at 3:00. You can follow us, all of us, and we love to hear what you have to say. Have a great weekend everybody. Goodbye.