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Campbell Brown
Public Option DOA?; Hollywood Rallies Around Roman Polanski
Aired September 29, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, here are the questions we want answered.
Is the public health care option dead on arrival or just in critical condition? Two Senate votes today shot it down.
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: If today were the last battle, we would have come close and we would have lost. But today's the first battle, and we are really feeling good.
BROWN: Was this terror suspect part of a conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction in America? The government says yes. His lawyer says no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The government will have to produce someone else. They don't necessarily have to indict him, but they better come up with someone else, or the conspiracy charge fails.
BROWN: So, are there other suspects out there?
And why is Hollywood rallying around Roman Polanski?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you have that kind of talent, you're able to -- much like a Michael Vick, you're able to get people to kind of look past your personal problems.
BROWN: New tonight, details on how the Los Angeles district attorney tracked Polanski for three decades and why he was finally arrested after so many years.
Plus, why is Japan stopping this father from getting his children back?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, they could give me money. They could give me anything, but they can't take back time.
BROWN: His ex-wife defied the law and fled to Japan with their 8-year-old son and 6-year-old daughter. He followed to get them back. Tonight, he's in a Japanese jail, charged with abducting his own kids.
And breaking news tonight: The U.S. says it's had high-level talks with Cuba. Our newsmaker, Gloria Estefan, tonight, she says the CIA tried to recruit her to spy.
GLORIA ESTEFAN, MUSICIAN: They thought I would really make a great operative. I would have loved it.
BROWN (on camera): Really?
ESTEFAN: Although, actually, you know, you never know. Maybe I did. It's a cover.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is your only source for news. CNN prime time begins now. Here's Campbell Brown.
BROWN: Hi, everybody.
Those are the big questions tonight. But we're going to start, as we always do, with the "Mash-Up," our look at the stories making an impact right now, the moments you may have missed. We are watching it all, so you don't have to.
And we start with breaking news from Capitol Hill tonight -- Republicans and moderate Democrats joining forces to shoot down the most controversial component of health care reform: the public option.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: The Senate Finance Committee voted twice today to reject a government-run health care option.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On a vote of 15-8, the Finance Committee today defeated an amendment that called for a federally funded public option, also defeated, 13-10, a similar public option, but with no federal funding.
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Defeated with the help of conservative Democrats.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Finance Committee is the last of five congressional panels still working on health care reform.
BLITZER: A significant setback to the public option today?
BASH: No question about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now it goes to the full Senate to weigh in, and next there will be more pressure on the president to say whether he will sign a health care bill that doesn't have a public option.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, where does this leave health care reform? We're going to talk about that question tonight. We are going to try to separate fact from fiction from you coming up shortly.
And more breaking news to tell you about -- today, a massive earthquake hit in the Pacific Ocean off the Samoan Islands. The magnitude-8.0 quake triggered a tsunami. On American Samoa, at least 17 dead . This is according to the island's health director. Those numbers are expected to rise. Local media reports that the villages, a number of villages have been flooded. Cars have been overturned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: There's the U.S. We will put it into play. There's Hawaii, Hawaii, 3,000 miles from the earthquake. American Samoa here, Samoa up here to the north of this. A five-foot wave was generated at Samoa.
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Now, this is an iReport that you can watch on the iPhone app that we're getting in from American Samoa. What you are looking at here is a line of cars, says Jen Holmanua Chen (ph), who sent this to us, moving slowly to higher ground, up a mountain, because they had been advised by police to get to higher ground.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And there is still a tsunami advisory in effect in Hawaii and on the West Coast of the U.S., from California to Oregon, an advisory which means a tsunami could produce strong currents -- people being warned to stay out of the ocean.
And turning the page now to Iran, President Obama today huddling with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in advance of Thursday's mini- summit on Iran's nuclear program. The public position from the White House? It's on Iran to prove they are not trying to develop weapons of mass destruction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think the onus is on the Iranians to show the world that the program that they have is a peaceful program. The onus is on the Iranians. The onus on the Iranians. We have put the onus on the Iranians. The onus, the onus, the onus and the responsibility are clearly on them -- is on them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Administration officials casting Thursday's meeting as a big test of Iran's willingness to negotiate in good faith.
And, here at home, a 24-year-old Afghan national pleaded not guilty today to planning a terrorist attack on New York City using weapons of mass destruction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Najibullah Zazi's considered one of the key players in a conspiracy that authorities believe could be the biggest in the U.S. since 9/11.
BRIAN WILLIAMS, HOST, "NBC NIGHTLY NEWS": Authorities claim Zazi received training in Pakistan and was acquiring materials to make explosive devices.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After entering in the plea of not guilty in court today, Zazi's lawyer challenged the government's case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would like to stop this rush to judgment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities are looking for other people. Now, because of translation issues, the international nature of this alleged plot and -- quote -- "voluminous discovery" -- unquote -- the judge designated this case complex, waving certain speedy trial deadlines.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Zazi is next in court on December 3.
Roman Polanski remains behind bars in Switzerland tonight nabbed in a 32-year-old rape case. Today, his lawyer asked a Swiss court to release the famed director -- their decision expected in a few weeks. Meanwhile, Hollywood is closing ranks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's now a growing petition circulating not just here in Hollywood, but also within the international film community. You have directors like Martin Scorsese, Woody Allen. They're pushing for Polanski's immediate release.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Movie mogul Harvey Weinstein has released this statement. "We're calling on every filmmaker we can to help fix this terrible situation."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're joined by Roman Polanski's agent, Jeff Berg.
JEFF BERG, AGENT FOR ROMAN POLANSKI: He travels freely throughout most of Europe and has for the last 30 years. So the fact that he was picked up seemed to have no real prior justification.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Zurich Film Festival Web site was in the end Roman Polanski's downfall. Investigators in Los Angeles noticed they were selling tickets to a Roman Polanski appearance Sunday night. The Swiss were asked to arrest him on arrival.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But some U.S. legal experts say Polanski is simply being treated like any other fugitive from justice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the DA is probably trying to demonstrate that just because a case is old doesn't mean it's over and just because you run away doesn't mean we will forget about you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And we're going to have a whole lot more on this story tonight, what is next for Polanski, what is next for the prosecution. And new details tonight on what was happening in convicted Ponzi schemer Bernie Madoff's house the days before he went to prison. A new book from ABC's Brian Ross goes behind the scenes and reveals police sometimes saw more than they wanted to.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some of the times, they walked around naked, Bernie and Ruth. There were surveillance cameras there under the house arrest terms. They had to be told, remember, there are cameras here. We can see you.
And they would sit around at the kitchen table in this fabulous penthouse apartment, and Ruth would talk about the Gentiles being responsible for this, and Bernie was almost oblivious. Here he had been caught in the largest Ponzi scheme, and he was sort of going through, well, see, what boards do I have to resign?
Told that one of his victims had committed suicide, Madoff's reaction was, well, that guy couldn't pick a stock if his life depended on it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So far, the Madoffs' two sons who worked for his firm have not been charged, but they could be sued very soon. The trustee appointed by the court to recover victims' money intends to sue both of them and two other relatives for about $200 million.
Former Majority Leader Tom DeLay is trying to extend his stay on "Dancing With the Stars" -- last night's reviews surprisingly positive again, especially surprising when you see DeLay, dancing a tango this week, nearly lost his footing, almost dropped his partner there. They don't have a vote, but the ladies on "The View" were weighing in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": You drop her, you're in trouble.
(CROSSTALK)
GOLDBERG: If you thought you were in deep dooky before, that girl hits the ground, dude, you are done.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
GOLDBERG: And then where you going to go?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can't go up.
GOLDBERG: Where do you go from "Dancing With the Stars"?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After you drop your partner?
GOLDBERG: Yes. I guess you could go on "Survivor." (CROSSTALK)
JOY BEHAR, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": In his case, it's jail. He's going to jail soon.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Be doing some dancing in there.
(LAUGHTER)
GOLDBERG; It's just very strange and peculiar.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: DeLay's sideshow could end this week. The judges' score put him in a tie for last place.
And brings us to the "Punchline" and Stephen Colbert tonight, who found a way to make a way to make Yom Kippur, the holiest day for Jews, actually funny.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE COLBERT REPORT": Night has fallen, which means that Yom Kippur has ended. It's been a time of prayer, reflection and repentance, or, as Eliot Spitzer calls it, the rest of my life.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And that is the "Mash-Up."
When we come back, breaking news tonight: the public health care option all but dead, two Senate votes shooting it down. So, what is next? Will there be any health care reform at all? We will debate it when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Breaking news tonight -- the Senate Finance Committee has voted down two different attempts to create a government-run public option for health insurance reform.
And that comes after months of fierce battles over what may be the most controversial proposal for reform. And, today, all sides argued their case in hours of passionate debate. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHUMER: We need a public option to create competition and to bring costs down. It is my belief nothing will do it better.
SEN. CHARLES GRASSLEY (R), IOWA: If you want competition, you don't want the government running everything. The government is not a fair competitor. It's not even a competitor.
SEN. KENT CONRAD (D), NORTH DAKOTA: We have gotten locked in a really sterile debate that says the only alternatives are what we have got now or public option. Those are not the only alternatives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And right now the Senate Finance Committee is still on the job. They're going to be working late into the night on other proposed changes to the health care reform bill.
But tonight's big question, is the public option dead on arrival?
And joining me right now to answer that, Robert Reich, President Clinton's labor secretary, with us tonight, CNN political analyst Roland Martin, and senior political analyst Gloria Borger joining us as well.
So, Gloria, let's cut to the chase here.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.
BROWN: After today's vote, is public option dead or alive?
BORGER: I think it's pretty dead, Campbell. I think it's safe to say that right now it looks like it's a goner.
There are going to be some votes on the Senate floor, just for show, to give Democrats the opportunity to vote for a public option. But, in the end, the House has approved it, remember? This goes to a conference committee.
This is where the president has to step in, because it's not going to come out of the Senate, will be in the House. And my bet is that the president has to settle for something less, something that may be a down payment on a public option, if the insurance companies don't behave themselves.
So, I think the president's going to have to settle for less, and I think he's signaling that he will settle for less.
BROWN: Secretary Reich, do you agree? Is the public option dead here?
ROBERT REICH, FORMER U.S. LABOR SECRETARY: Well, I don't think it's quite dead, Campbell, though Gloria does have a very, very important point.
It certainly was a big setback today. But let's be clear. Four out of five of the committees considering health care have included a public option. Also, there's tremendous support in the public. The latest "Times"/CBS poll showed that 65 percent of Americans are very much in support of a public insurance option. They think that they should have a right to choose a public insurance option, if they want it. And the president is very much aware of that. The other thing that -- that gives the people who want a public option some hope is that even Senator Olympia Snowe, Republican from Maine, has come up with a version of a public option. It's a trigger mechanism. Her proposal is that, if, after a certain number of years, costs are not contained and coverage is not expanded, that a public option, then, is automatically triggered.
Kent Conrad, Senator Kent Conrad, has his own version of a public option, which is more of a cooperative system. So, something will probably emerge.
BROWN: Well, let me challenge you a bit on that, because you have said that without a public option -- and here's your quote here -- "health care reform is a Band-Aid for a system in critical condition."
So, I mean, it looks like -- or, listening to you now, it sounds like you're open to some other things. Do you still believe what you said before, or is there room for more of a compromise here?
REICH: Well, if you're asking my opinion in terms of my policy hat, what I actually think ought to be, you know, my first priority and my first option would be -- would be some sort of single-payer.
I think that a -- a full-blooded public option, such as Jay Rockefeller and Senator Schumer presented today, is probably the best alternative, simply because -- two -- two points -- number one, there's not very much competition.
Most local markets, you have a choice of maybe two or three private insurers. And you need some sort of real insurance option that is public. And, number two, we know from a lot of studies that a national public insurance option would have the authority and the scale to negotiate low rates from a lot of medical providers and drug companies, which is exactly, Campbell, why private insurers and the drug companies hate the idea of a public option.
BROWN: Roland, where does this leave the White House? You know, the president made it clear that -- that he prefers a plan with a public option, you know, but it was his own party that -- that voted him down today.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, look...
BROWN: Or some members of his own party.
MARTIN: This is where he is going to have to intervene.
And, look, I just got off the phone with several House members. They made it perfectly clear that the Senate vote emboldens them. They say they're going to push even harder. You're going to see liberal and progressive interest groups even put more pressure on the House to toe the line.
And so Speaker Nancy Pelosi, she understands where her Democrats are. And they're saying it has to be a public option. House members, frankly, have gotten tired of the Senate dictating so much -- so many of the terms.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: They say the White House frankly has spent too much time appealing to the various senators. And so look for the Senate and the House to really go at it. But the president is going to have to make the call which way are we going in order for this thing to come to his desk.
BORGER: I think he's already made the call. I think he's already made the call.
BROWN: What do you mean?
BORGER: Today, the president, in a statement, they came out and they said, he's open to other ways to increase choice and competition, although he supports the public option.
I think he's essentially opening the door and saying, look, don't make the perfect the enemy of the good, and I want to get a bill here. And Democrats can go on record voting for a public option, but we have to get a bill.
And he would like to get at least one Republican in the Senate to sign on to it.
REICH: Gloria, I think you're absolutely right. And I don't think this is new.
I think the president, all along, has opened the door to something less than a public option. His public face has been, look, I want a public option. I -- I think it would be a great thing, but I am willing to consider anything else...
BORGER: Sure.
REICH: ... that achieves my ends.
(CROSSTALK)
REICH: So, in the conference committee, and I think you're absolutely right, that's where the action is going to be, and that's where the president has got to come clean as to what he really wants.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: He's going to have to counter his own interest groups. They're going to put pressure on him as well.
BROWN: Well, I was going to say, to Roland's point, too, the position he's taken has not gone over that well with liberals, which is a whole separate discussion.
(LAUGHTER)
BORGER: Which could be good for him. BROWN: Yes, maybe so.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Robert cited 65 percent of the American people. When 65 percent of the polls show it, look, they have something to say, Mr. President, I'm sorry. You should be behind us.
BROWN: All right, guys
(CROSSTALK)
REICH: I think this -- I think this is really a much, much larger question, and there are all sorts of issues in terms of not only the Democratic base, but also the role of the private insurance companies, the drug companies, corporate America, in terms of deciding policy in this country.
BROWN: All right, we have got to end it there.
Secretary Reich, appreciate your time.
Gloria and Roland, as always, thanks, guys.
REICH: Thanks, Campbell.
BORGER: Sure.
MARTIN: Thank you.
BROWN: An American father fighting to get his kids back after they were taken out of the country by their mother, tonight, he is behind bars, caught in an international custody battle. We will explain the story when we come back.
Plus, our newsmaker tonight, Gloria Estefan, she explains how the CIA tried to recruit her as an agent, seriously.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ESTEFAN: Guys that were undercover there approached me seven months into my job, saying that they had been watching me and that they thought I would really make a great operative.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS BREAK)
BROWN: A big list of Hollywood stars trying to get director Roman Polanski out of jail tonight. The question, why is so much of Hollywood lining up behind a man who committed such a terrible crime?
When we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Some new developments tonight in the Roman Polanski case. Polanski's lawyers today asked Switzerland to release him. That came as the Los Angeles District Attorney's Office revealed how Polanski has been tracked for the past 30 years, including what may have been a near miss in Israel in 2007.
In the meantime, entertainment heavy hitters signing a petition calling for -- quote -- "the immediate release of Roman Polanski" -- among those signing this petition, Martin Scorsese, Woody Allen, David Lynch, Terry Gilliam, Tilda Swinton.
So, why is Hollywood rallying around him and apparently willing to ignore the rape of a 13-year-old girl?
That's the question tonight for Sharon Waxman, who is editor in chief of thewrap.com, and CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
Sharon, let -- let me start with you here.
It looks like a whole lot of Hollywood coming out in force behind him. Again, we just went through some of the names on that list, Martin Scorsese, Woody Allen, David Lynch. Are you surprised by their support, or is this generally the view of most of Hollywood?
SHARON WAXMAN, THEWRAP.COM: I would say, no, I'm not surprised. I think that Hollywood was really stunned, absolutely stunned, at the arrest of Roman Polanski on Sunday -- or on Saturday, I should say.
And it's not only Hollywood that's come out in opposition to it. It's also a whole lot of leading cultural figures, including the foreign minister of France, Bernard Kouchner, who find this scandalous.
So, I think what you're seeing there are a lot of people who regard Polanski with great respect as a director and who feel that, at age 76, after 31 years after this warrant was issued for his arrest, it's pointless.
And don't forget -- I mean -- and, by the way, I'm not endorsing that view, but I'm not surprised at it. And don't forget that this is someone who was -- his past conduct was debated very thoroughly several years ago when Roman Polanski was up for best director for "The Pianist," and he won that Oscar that year. And so Hollywood has already kind of come to terms with how they feel about him.
He's a very complicated person. He did a bad thing a long time ago. He admitted it. There's something that feels very strange about his sudden arrest at age 76.
BROWN: Jeff, today...
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Not to me.
BROWN: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: I was going to say, I know that you're very much in disagreement with the view of most of Hollywood.
TOOBIN: Well, I just think, you know, Hollywood is determined to confirm every stereotype, that they are clueless, that they are immoral, that they are out of it, that they have no values.
And, you know, here you have, I mean, a crime that is not really kind of, well, you know, maybe he endorsed a check to the wrong person. He raped a 13-year-old girl and then fled the country. And, by the way, he's not presumed innocent. He is admitted guilty. He is a felon. He has skated on this for 30 years.
Shame on the L.A. DA's office for waiting so long, but that's not the point. The point is that he did it and has escaped punishment.
WAXMAN: Well, that is a point, Jeffrey. There is -- that is a point, though.
If they did let it slide for so many years, why all of a sudden? It appears that, because the DA's office was embarrassed by quite a good documentary that was done last year that raised a lot of questions about judicial misconduct, and the prosecutor himself who was involved in the case went on camera to say that there was misconduct in the case, in the wake of that, that they execute this warrant and they go after him, that's what feels...
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: And -- and Polanski's lawyers attempted to reopen the case last year and made some of those same points.
WAXMAN: They -- correct, this year.
TOOBIN: And -- and the judge seemed receptive.
But the judge said, OK, Polanski, come to Los Angeles, show up in court, and maybe I'll rule in your favor. He didn't show up. I mean, you got to show up. It's not like L.A. where, you know, you'll send your people to deal with it.
BROWN: And to Jeff's broader point here, Sharon, I just want your take on this, is Hollywood does, when they put out a petition like this, seem very out of touch. I mean, most of America is sort of bottom line said, I think, the way that Jeff does, which is, you know, whatever the circumstances, he's still admitted to raping a 13-year- old girl.
WAXMAN: Well, I can actually confirm what you're saying, because the comments on our site, on our coverage, both about the petition, about the reaction, have been uniformly negative and critical of what Roman Polanski did or whether he ought to still pay for the crime or whatever. But it does seem off somehow that you have now evidence arising that might cause the case to be dismissed, that you have the victim herself now saying it's past history. She's moved beyond it. She doesn't -- she wants the case dismissed also.
So, I don't know if the average American who sort of watched this out of the corner of their eye is as up to the minute with the details as Hollywood, who know much more about the case and certainly who know more about the case after this documentary.
TOOBIN: Yes, yes.
WAXMAN: I learned a lot of things from that documentary that I didn't know from the case.
TOOBIN: Yes. Great legal scholars like Debra Winger at the festival saying, well, it's just a technicality. I mean, come on, I don't think Hollywood is terribly up to date on this. I think they are protecting one of their own.
WAXMAN: So, you think that -- the D.A. -- the D.A. -- oh, yes, that's for sure, that's for sure, that they love him and they think he's a great genius. And, you know, that's -- all of that is true. And I think that they may well look out of step.
You may well be right about that. But to just say that the D.A. is not completely blindly pursuing something to avoid looking -- the embarrassing-looking evidence that was unearthed by this documentary is also, I think, the missing part of the story.
TOOBIN: But, Sharon, can I just say this about the D.A.? So what? So what if he -- if he is pursuing it for political reasons? The guy raped a 13-year-old child.
WAXMAN: Oh, OK.
TOOBIN: And he's never paid for it. That's the story. Not, you know, what the D.A. did or didn't do.
BROWN: OK, very quickly, because we are almost out of time here.
WAXMAN: I'm not sure what to say to that. I'm not here to defend Roman Polanski.
BROWN: No, no. I know. I know. And I didn't mean to put you in that position. You are giving us sort of the Hollywood perspective on it. But I just want to get Jeff's take on what happens next.
You know, his lawyers have asked the Swiss to release him. That's probably not likely given we sort of know the guy is a flight risk, right?
TOOBIN: Right.
BROWN: So, what do the U.S. authorities do next if they try to get him here? How does that happen?
TOOBIN: It is a diplomatic process with the Swiss, and I wouldn't be too sure. You know, I don't claim great expertise in the Swiss legal system. But there's a lot of play in the joints. He does have a lot more support in Europe, I think, than he does have here. So there will be a question of does he get out before he's sent over? I think in the United States he would certainly be considered a flight risk. But the issue first is, is the extradition.
BROWN: Right.
TOOBIN: And then he goes to Los Angeles, where he gets sentenced, period. I don't -- I mean, he will be able to file some legal motions, but there is no further proceedings about his guilt. He has admitted his guilt. So, I think this will all probably take a lot longer than we expect, months rather than weeks, but I think he's coming back to Los Angeles.
BROWN: All right.
WAXMAN: Well, that's what the D.A. has said also, that he'll go straight to sentencing court. The superior court says the same thing that he's just going to be sentenced regardless of the appeal that his motion to dismiss is under.
BROWN: All right, Sharon, thank you so much. Sharon Waxman out in L.A. for us tonight. Sharon, thanks as always. And Jeff Toobin here with me in New York, thanks.
We have some breaking news tonight on high-level American/Cuban talks in Havana this week. But how much have things really changed there?
We talked to tonight's "Newsmaker" about that, Gloria Estefan, whether she'd ever go back to her homeland.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ESTEFAN: They don't let me in now. I am persona non grata. I've been very vocal, you know, speaking against the government of Cuba.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Some breaking news out of Cuba tonight. CNN confirming that a U.S. diplomat held high-level talks with the Cuban government in Havana this week. The first touch talks in several years and that has given Cuban immigrants some new hope, which brings us to tonight's "Newsmaker."
Gloria Estefan is a proud Cuban-American and has, of course, been a chart-topping music star for three decades now. Well, as a Cuban immigrant, she has always supported those living under communism there. And I spoke with her about that just a little bit ago. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: I just read something very recently about you that I was stunned when I saw it.
ESTEFAN: Oh, oh.
BROWN: That the CIA had tried to recruit you to be a spy? Tell us the back story. What was happening?
ESTEFAN: It's true. I had just -- I was about to start University of Miami, and my minor was French, so I got a college work study job at the airport as an interpreter for French, English and Spanish. And they thought, you know, I was 17 years old. I was a baby and very quiet and very subdued. And the guys that were undercover there approached me about seven months into my job, saying that they had been watching me and that they thought I would really make a great operative.
So, they wanted me to go and train in Atlanta and I told my mom, she hit the roof. She said, no. Your father already gave up his life for his country and, you know, like, you're the only thing I have left, don't do this to me. I won't be able to sleep. It got a little difficult, so I didn't do it. But I would have loved it.
BROWN: Really?
ESTEFAN: Although actually, you know, I don't know. Maybe I did. It's a perfect cover. Isn't this a perfect cover?
BROWN: That's a pretty good cover, I will say. Very clever of you to become, like, a superstar and just to throw everybody off their game.
ESTEFAN: The perfect cover.
BROWN: Let's talk about Cuba. The Obama administration has loosened restrictions somewhat to allow people like yourself, if you wanted to, to travel back. Would you ever go?
ESTEFAN: To tell the truth, we were back in 1979 when Jimmy Carter opened the first time, because Emilio's brother and two children were there, and we still hadn't been able to get them out of Cuba. We had been trying for 14 years.
BROWN: Right.
ESTEFAN: So we went back then. That was before the fame or any part of it. Emilio and I were newlyweds. We have just gotten married. And it was claustrophobic or Castro-phobic, as I call it. It was a tough ten days we spent there.
BROWN: Do you think it's changed? I mean, do you -- just in that time, I mean, think about it now, would you go back now, right now to --
ESTEFAN: They don't let me in now. I am persona non grata. I've been very vocal, you know, speaking against the government of Cuba and what's going on there so --
BROWN: And you've even actually said I can't go back there for that reason, that they would track me down.
ESTEFAN: Yes, that's exactly why. Yes. We just recently with the concert, everybody is saying you should go, you should go.
First for me, it would be tough because to stand there and know that I am going to sing for these people, entertain them for a couple of hours and then leave and they're in the same situation that I left them in. You know, my father was in a Cuban jail for two years, a political prisoner, and it would be very tough for me. But they wouldn't let me in anyway.
BROWN: But just to clarify for people, you're talking about the peace concert.
ESTEFAN: Yes, the peace concert.
BROWN: Which a lot of people said was a great thing that it gave young people there such hope.
ESTEFAN: Yes. It was wonderful?
BROWN: Do you agree with that?
ESTEFAN: I do agree. I'm glad that somebody went. For me it's a different issue because it transcends so much just the simple entertainment of the Cuban people when it's me, because I am Cuban. I know what's going on there. I know what the government does to the people. I saw subtle things that most people wouldn't notice in the audience.
BROWN: Right.
ESTEFAN: But for them it was fantastic. You know? The fact that they were able to, for a while, you know, for a few hours, be at that place where people have been killed by the government and where it's usually been a very sad place and where they've been forced to see a lot of political, you know, speeches and things forced down their throat, it was wonderful for them to just be there freely having a good time and enjoying music. I thought it was a good thing.
BROWN: We are launching a series "Latino in America" on CNN.
ESTEFAN: Thank you.
BROWN: And there -- we're at this time where demographics in this country are changing. What do you think it means to be Latina in this country now?
ESTEFAN: Well, I think it's very different to be Latina in this country now than it was quite a few years ago, as you know.
BROWN: Why? ESTEFAN: Well, first of all, we're, you know, a huge minority. We're probably be by the year, I think, 2025, we'll be a quarter of the population of the United States. We have now a political power because we've been here long enough where people are citizens and are voting and that's a very important voting bloc. Even though we're not, you know, monolithic, it's pluralistic, and we have all kinds of ideas, but we do have that power of the vote.
We have the economic power that advertisers are now paying more attention to, you know, the Latin market. So, I think it's very different. And it's still a melting pot, but I think that it's nice to have -- to be enriched by your culture and we haven't forgotten that.
BROWN: You also look, though, at this bitter fight over immigration in this country.
ESTEFAN: Oh, yes.
BROWN: Do you think people feel threatened by that change when you talk about the demographics and how it's going to change this country?
ESTEFAN: I think they're going to be afraid of it if they're made to be afraid. I mean, this country is built on immigration. Unless you're a Native American Indian, you came from somewhere else, somewhere down the line, and it's only made this country incredibly strong.
The people that built this country had an idea that they wanted to create a place that was equal for all. And we have to continue to remind ourselves that that's what this country is about and not be afraid of who's coming here. The immigrants that have come have done a lot for this country. They work hard. They do things that a lot of people don't want to do. You know, the jobs that Americans no longer want to do falls to the people that need to work and I think it'd be -- it'd be crazy to fear that.
I think that there are needs to be controls and laws and organizations. Of course, that's important, but no one should fear, you know, new immigrants. That's what this country is about.
BROWN: Judge Sonia Sotomayor being sworn in as the first Latina Supreme Court justice, what did you think? What did you feel when you watched her confirmation hearings and being sworn in and her taking on the role?
ESTEFAN: It's another woman first, so that's fantastic right there. I was proud. I was really proud. I was honored and privileged that I was able to see something like that happen. And for my daughter as well, I think it's a great example and hopefully there will be more and more of that as time goes by.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Gloria Estefan. And tune in right here October 21st for a CNN prime-time special event, "Latino in America." Again, that airs October 21st.
And American dad behind bars tonight in Japan, charged with trying to abduct his young daughter and son. It is an incredible story, the lengths a father will go in hope of being reunited with his children.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTOPHER SAVOIE, FATHER OF ABDUCTED CHILDREN: Everywhere I look around, there's a picture. I can't go in his bedroom. Because I'm, like, well, he'll never sleep in this bed again. It's hard to have quiet moments because my kids' words haunt me during those quiet times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: An American dad is behind bars in Japan tonight, charged with abducting his own children. Christopher Savoie went to Japan after his Japanese ex-wife defied American courts and took their kids home with her.
Well, yesterday, he took the law into his own hands and snatched the kids on their way to school, making a break for the U.S. consulate. The Japanese police were waiting. They took him into custody and now he could be facing up to five years in jail.
CNN's Betty Nguyen has more on what led him to this point.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): According to the laws in the state of Tennessee where he lives, Christopher Savoie should be spending his days playing baseball with his kids, 8-year-old Isaac and 6-year-old Rebecca.
SAVOIE: And next week I won't be playing ball with them. I won't be playing catch with them. I just won't. That week will never happen again.
NGUYEN: His kids won't be here because Savoie's Japanese ex- wife, Noriko, in violation of a court order abducted them. Savoie says he only found out the children were gone when they didn't show up for school.
SAVOIE: And I got very concerned. I kept calling, calling. The schools kept calling. Nobody could get through to her.
NGUYEN: Finally, he called his father-in-law in Japan who told them not to worry.
SAVOIE: So what do mean, don't worry? They weren't in school. Oh, don't worry, they're here. I said, they're what? They're what? They're in Japan?
NGUYEN: Christopher Savoie had feared this might happen. He had applied for a restraining order after his wife e-mailed him that she was on the edge of a cliff saying, "I'm having more difficulty staying here. It's very hard to watch kids becoming American and losing their Japanese identity."
Japan does not recognize U.S. law in child custody cases. In fact, the U.S. State Department says they know of no case in which Japanese courts have ordered a child once taken to Japan to be returned to a parent in the United States.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: So, does Christopher Savoie have any hope of getting his children back? And joining me right now, a man who has fought his own custody battle in Japan, a Navy commander, Paul Toland is with us. His daughter was taken by his mother seven years ago, I guess, by her mother, and has been living in Japan ever since. And also back with us right now, CNN senior legal analyst Jeff Toobin to talk about this.
And, Jeff, let's talk about Savoie's case first. It looks like not only will he not get his kids back, but he could face serious time for kidnapping them.
TOOBIN: It's really a heartbreaking story. There is a convention of many countries about child custody issues that they agree to honor each other's rules. Japan is not a party to that agreement. Japan operates by its own rules. And they are -- they feel they are under no obligation to return these -- these children to Mr. Savoie, even though he has a valid United States court order.
And so I think he's just out of luck. And now, I anticipate that the criminal case against him, the embassy, will step in and help him out and probably get him out of jail promptly. But as for getting his kids back, I think he has very little chance.
BROWN: And family law in Japan operates very differently than American law. So, as I was reading, even when a Japanese couple divorces, usually one person gets sole custody and the other sort of falls off the planet, right?
TOOBIN: You know, I learned this in reporting this story. I had no idea. But that's true. The idea of joint custody, which is true in all 50 states here...
BROWN: Right.
TOOBIN: ... essentially doesn't exist in Japan. That one -- one parent becomes the custodial parent and the other parent has almost no contact with the child. It's heartbreaking by our standards. But that's apparently routine, which is one reason why Mr. Savoie is in so much out of luck is because he's -- he's the out parent in this case.
BROWN: Paul, you're facing a very similar legal nightmare here. You're a Navy commander. You haven't seen your little girl, Erica (ph), in what six years, I think?
CMDR. PAUL TOLAND, ABDUCTED DAUGHTER LIVING IN JAPAN: Six years.
BROWN: After your former wife moved out or moved with her back in 2003, so explain what happened with you a little bit and how painful, God (ph), that process must have been.
TOLAND: I thank you, Campbell, for having me on. And I want to say that, you know, the cases in Japan including my case are particularly difficult it's a true human rights tragedy that's gone unnoticed. There are more than 130 children like Erica. Erica was taken six years ago, and I haven't been able to establish no contact with her.
Japanese authorities are not helpful. The Japanese court is unhelpful, and there's really no remedies in existence. And even two years ago after my wife died, I still as a sole surviving parent of Erica still have absolutely no contact and no means of -- no means of seeing there.
BROWN: Stop there, Paul, because this is what is mind blowing to me. And I want people to fully appreciate this. If your wife passed away, the courts then gave custody to your mother-in-law, and you've had no way of intervening. I mean, did they explain the decision?
I mean, you would assume at that point that you would at least have some contact?
TOLAND: They've had no contact. I've asked the State Department to help, and the State Department didn't make one visit to my daughter. And they told me that the family, the grandmother wanted -- did want to contact me. But when I tried to contact her, I was told just the opposite. I think they were just telling the State Department what they thought the State Department wanted to hear to get rid of them.
So there's been no hope. When somebody's child is taken in Japan, you realized that it's absolute hopelessness. I could continue to hold out hope in the face of hopelessness. There's no child who's ever been returned from Japan, and I think in this case, that just happened.
Christopher realized this once he started looking into it and realized that if he didn't do something, he would never see his children again. And, you know, I hope and I continue to hold out hope to see Erica again one day, my daughter. But I do understand that the uphill battle in a country like Japan that has really no respect for international law for the laws of other countries when it comes to parental rights.
BROWN: This is so depressing. Is there, I mean, really like -- is there any hope. Is there anything the State Department can do?
TOOBIN: Well, this has to be a diplomatic effort. It has to be. Because after all, Japan is a very close ally of the United States. Our governments are in constant contact, you would think, you would hope that the State Department could work through the Japanese government.
I suppose the only thing you can do is wait until the child is old enough until she can reach out to contact her father. But, you know, that's missing a child's entire childhood.
BROWN: Well, Paul, I certainly hope that you don't have to wait that long. Best of luck to you. Jeff Toobin, as always, appreciate it, Jeff.
TOLAND: Thank you.
BROWN: Coming up next, we'll have tonight's "Guilty Pleasure," the video we can't resist, right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Time for tonight's "Guilty Pleasure." Mike Galanos here with the story we just couldn't resist. What do you got, Mike?
MIKE GALANOS, HLN PRIME NEWS: Couldn't imagine the embarrassment here. Video coming to us, Campbell, from TMZ.
It's Hugh Jackman and Daniel Craig starring in a broadway police drama. It's called "A Steady Rain." Intense scenes here. It's just based with these two guys talking, powerful, intense actors.
Well, watch what happens when someone's cell phone starts ringing right in the middle of a key scene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUGH JACKMAN: All the time, his face.
(Phone ringing)
You want to get that? You want to get it, grab it, I don't care. Grab it. Grab your phone. It doesn't matter.
(Phone ringing)
JACKMAN: Come on, just turn it off. Come on, unless you've got a better story and you want to get up and tell your story.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALANOS: Campbell, they were great were the improv here. They didn't break character. They're both Chicago cops.
It happened to Daniel Craig as well. He didn't break character either. Basically telling the person, turn it off. I guess they were so embarrassed they were frozen.
BROWN: Oh.
GALANOS: Couldn't reach and just suck it up and turn it off.
BROWN: Oh, I feel bad for them.
GALANOS: Yes.
BROWN: It's so hard. They're concentrating so hard. OK, always keep the cell phone off.
GALANOS: Exactly.
BROWN: Mike Galanos tonight. Thanks, Mike.
GALANOS: OK, Campbell.
BROWN: "LARRY KING LIVE" starting in just a few minutes with a prime-time exclusive. Michael Jackson's taped confidential confessions revealed. But, first, grab your iPhone, we have that new app that will change the way you get your news, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: If you've got an iPhone, today CNN launched the best app ever. Erica Hill explains how it works.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, the CNN iPhone app is a whole new way for you to get your news and a few other things available at your fingertips. So, let's take a look at what's available with the new iPhone app.
First of all, your headlines. This is what you expect from CNN, right? You can scroll through your headlines. We're looking at U.S. headlines right now.
We go up, look at a few of them. H1N1 vaccine. So many people wondering when can I get the shot, when can my kids get this shot.
Well, you can do more than just read the story here. We'll show you so you can see what the latest today is today. But maybe you want to keep following us to know next week when that vaccine comes out when it's really going to be at your doctor's office.
Easy to do. Follow topic, OK? And what this is going to do is we've created myCNN for each and every iPhone user. You want to follow swine flu? Already three stories in your queue. They're going to keep you up-to-date on what's happening with that vaccine.
Also in myCNN, if you click on "local," it's going to give you a little more information on what's happening in your neighborhood. So we're in New York, of course, you want the weather, not just for today. How about a ten-day forecast?
Even better. I love this. It's so cool. Check out the radar. Your own personal Chad Myers. How about that? Very cool stuff.
So that's your local. We've also got traffic. When you look in local, right here, you can take a look at how the roads are around you. But you can also watch video our iPhone and not just archived video, CNNlive. CNN.com. you can see exactly -- let's see if I hit this properly -- you'll see exactly what is happening right now on CNN.com.
You can also look through other bits of video. They're listed on the Web site, on your iPhone that you can check out. And one last thing that's really important, because we know that our viewers are so important to what we do here at CNN, how about an I-report sent directly from your iPhone?
And in case you're wondering about some of the stories that we're hoping to learn more about from you, the viewer, right here, assignments, you can take a look. Maybe someone who's been affected by the typhoon can sign. You can tell us about that.
If you have a question for Secretary Clinton or Secretary Gates, let us know. All of this available now on your iPhone. Thanks to that new CNN app.
And, hey, let it's less than two bucks. What can you buy for less than $2, Campbell. Not even coffee.
BROWN: Not even coffee. Erica Hill. That's it for us.
"LARRY KING LIVE" right now.
