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Joy Behar Page
JOY BEHAR SHOW for September 29, 2009
Aired September 29, 2009 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Does what happened in Zurich stay in Zurich? Roman Polanski plans to fight extradition back to America.
And in between kicking up her heels in Vegas and planting trees in New York, the divine Miss M, Bette Midler, will be dropping by the studio.
Plus, my new BFF Sarah Palin has written a book. First Levi Johnston writes an article for "Vanity Fair," now Sarah writes a book. I tell you this is a family of literary lions, just like the Buckleys. All this and more from the Time Warner Center in New York City tonight.
Welcome, everybody, glad you`re here for my opening night. Make yourselves at home. Mi casa es su casa. We have got a lot to cover in an hour so let`s just dive right in. When Sarah Palin quit her governor`s job, people wondered what she had up that Versace sleeve of hers. Turns out it was a book. Who knew? It`s called "Going Rogue" and it`s 400 pages. With me now to talk Palin and politics is commentator and comedian Janeane Garofalo and conservative strategist Bay Buchanan. Bay, let me start with you.
BAY BUCHANAN, CONSERVATIVE STRATEGIST: Sure.
BEHAR: Is this why she quit, to write a memoir?
BUCHANAN: No, she actually had the book beforehand but they moved the whole schedule up because she did resign and has had time to work on that book. I think she resigned because it was just -- she didn`t feel like there was a lot more she could do up there, there were so many lawsuits being filed against her. People up there in Alaska were trying to stop any progress she was making. So I think she just felt it would be best to move on.
BEHAR: But why did she use the word "rogue" in the title? I looked it up in the dictionary. It means a scoundrel, a dishonest person, a tramp, a vagabond. Why not maverick? Why the word "rogue?"
BUCHANAN: I questioned that too, but as I understand it, that is basically what the McCain people started the feeling, that she was kind of a rogue, she kind of moved out on her own, did her own thing, wasn`t staying within the campaign limits that they had placed on her. And thank goodness she didn`t.
BEHAR: Do you think it`s negative to say rogue?
JEANANE GAROFALO, ACTRESS AND COMEDIAN: I think it`s used in the terms going off the reservation. I think. Going rogue is when somebody doesn`t stick to I guess the plan. I think that`s what she means, I don`t know.
BUCHANAN: It hasn`t hurt her, has it? She`s got 1.5 million so far in the first edition.
BEHAR: I mean, I`m jus going to give you some numbers. Obama`s book, "Dreams of my Father," $165,000 advance. Bill Clinton, $12 million. Oprah, $12.5 million, Hillary Clinton, $8 million. Gawker says that Sarah got $7 million. She knows how to make money, this girl. Plus somebody just paid $63,000 to eat dinner with her and she made a whole boatload of money in China. You have to give her a little credit, don`t you Janeane?
GAROFALO: I don`t know if I have to give her credit, but she`s certainly a good fundraiser. I guess she inspires people to give her money. I think she has an iconic status in certain circles, like she really means something to certain people. And I guess that translates into them giving money.
BUCHANAN: In fairness, the $63,000 wasn`t for her, that went to charity and she agreed to offer her lunch with Sarah and they auctioned it and somebody paid $63,000 and the reason is because she is someone who has attracted enormous attention, she`s very exciting, electrifying for many, many people, as Janeane pointed out.
BEHAR: Is she electrifying for you?
BUCHANAN: I`ll tell you. I have not been to such an exciting convention since Ronald Reagan days as to when she went up on that stage, and I wasn`t even going to go to this convention. The grassroots of the Republican Party were flat. We were uninterested in this ticket and John McCain picked her and it was just an overnight sensation. We were just thrilled to death.
GAROFALO: I actually don`t believe John McCain picked her. I would say somebody advised him to do so. I think he wanted Joe Lieberman, I`m not positive, which would not have been such a particularly electrifying ticket.
BEHAR: No, it would have been a bust I think.
GAROFALO: I actually don`t respond to her the way that her, you know, people do. What I do think is very interesting is how well she handles being thrown out there and could do it. Many, many people would, I think, be almost incapacitated by nerves to be put out on a stage so quickly. I`m assuming she didn`t have a lot of notice that she was going to be picked.
BEHAR: But do you think the fact that they threw her out there is the reason that she seemed tongue tied in conversations? She doesn`t seem to be able to really make a coherent point in my opinion. I have seen her many times.
BUCHANAN: I agree with you, Joy, that there are some interviews that she seemed to have been so nervous and so cautious. And I think what happened is they programmed her and they said, you can`t say this but you can say this. And you have to say it this way, and not say it this way. And that`s not who she is. She`s much better just being herself. But she wanted to be a good player, good team player and so she tried to do exactly what the McCain people wanted. And they did it all wrong. They should have had her on talk radio where she could kind of work through these issues and get her own footing.
BEHAR: But she`s hiding from the media now. I mean, she has free rein now to come out and be as smart as she wants to be.
BUCHANAN: This is just marketing for that book. They`re going to just put it all together and then she`ll come out in another boon.
BEHAR: But we`re going to see her in these interviews for the book, whether she`s articulate or not to run for president. Do you think she wants to run? Is that her plan? What do you think, Janeane?
GAROFALO: Oh, I honestly don`t know if she wants to run or not run. I think she does enjoy public life. I think she does enjoy being involved in the process. I don`t know why anyone would want to be president to tell you the truth. It seems to me to be one of the most unpleasant jobs in the world.
I would also say some of the inarticulateness would yes be your overly micromanaged and it probably makes you nervous. But more importantly, I don`t think she is particularly intellectually curious. I don`t know that she has as wide breadth of knowledge as maybe somebody else would.
BEHAR: Do you think she`s intellectually curious? Or has a wide breadth of knowledge?
BUCHANAN: I think she`s extraordinarily competent and I think she`s a quick study or she couldn`t have gone up against Joe Biden in that debate and held her own. I mean she did a really, really fine job.
And so I think that she is a quick study as well. But I do agree with Janeane on one point. She has come back here several times since the campaign was over, come back to the East Coast, been on television, and she doesn`t seem prepared. She doesn`t seem as if she`s really got her lines down, saying OK, the big issues I want to talk about and it really moved her. And I don`t know if she just thinks she can say anything she wants and it works, but I think she needs to be more disciplined if she indeed intends to be.
BEHAR: She doesn`t seem to want to really do her homework, is what you`re saying.
BUCHANAN: I don`t think she has done her homework. I think she did it in the campaign, but I don`t think she has done it since then. But maybe this book has helped her and maybe things will turn around. She`s got plenty of time. But I agree with you, she will have to be far more disciplined, focused on the issues, coming up with ways, clear ways of making her point than she has.
BEHAR: All right, I`m interested in her book, I can`t wait for it to come out. But I want to show you what David Frum said on morning on "Morning Joe."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID FRUM, AUTHOR: One of the things we know is that people become less Republican as they get better educated. The experience of gaining education, which is of course a good thing, causes people to shift away from the Republican Party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Basically he`s saying that as you get smarter and more educated, you go away from the Republican Party. Respond to that.
GAROFALO: I actually have a couple of things to say about that. I don`t think it`s about book smart to tell you the truth. I think what makes a person a liberal or a Democrat or progressive or socially responsive is emotional intelligence. That has nothing to do with academics. I mean, it certainly doesn`t hurt to be well-educated and I do believe that today`s Republican Party has moved so far from the party of Lincoln, or so far from I don`t know what their ideals have been in the past, but I believe that today`s Republican Party is very anti- intellectual. It`s very much a narrow, a very narrow focus. Hey, there`s music in my ear.
BEHAR: I know, because we`re running out time for the segment, but we`ll be back with our panel in just a minute. Don`t go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: President Obama will make his way to Denmark this week. So what`s the important international agenda? The Olympics. He would like them to be held in Chicago in 2016. Joining me is CNN anchor, the lovely Jack Cafferty. Jack, you`re not happy about this trip, why not?
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I`m not unhappy about it, I just wonder how it`s going to play in Peoria. Last week they had that G-20 summit meeting in Pittsburgh where they all agreed that global warming was going to be the death of us all.
What do you suppose the carbon footprint is for the POTUS and wife and Oprah and staff and all the rest of the folks, Secret Service to fly to Hans Christian Anderson land for a night and then come winging back.
Two 747s, Air Force One, and another that looks just like it, A military cargo plane that has to haul the president`s bulletproof limousine. This to me is not the message that was communicated to the other world leaders last week in Pittsburgh about how the United States has to cut down on it`s carbon footprint.
BEHAR: So this is just one being fairy tale to you. So why does he think it`s important to go?
CAFFERTY: I don`t know. I guess he`s got no health care reform. There`s no jobs. We don`t have any reform of the clowns on Wall Street who took us down the sewer a year ago. Maybe when the going gets this tough, you go to Denmark. I don`t know the reason.
BEHAR: But does he have to be in America in order to do the work? He can read on the plane.
CAFFERTY: The flip side to that is he can do a videoconference on the Olympics from the White House and none of this would have to happen and he can make the same pitch over a satellite just like you and I are talking to each other here without all of this dog and pony show trekking off to the continent, you know.
BEHAR: What about Obama just in general, do you think he still has his mojo or is it really sort of like getting to be people think of him as just another president? Because he really came in on a sea of hysteria and warmth and love from the American people. And it doesn`t seem to be holding off now. I don`t know if it will change again.
CAFFERTY: Well, I don`t know. I think you`re right, I think he`s in some trouble. I think health care reform bogged the country down over the summer. I think jobs are issue number one in the economy and getting the economy book on track and regulating the banks and the Wall Street firms and those things have all taken a back seat to this increasingly acrimonious debate on health care reform and I think it`s hurting.
BEHAR: Well, you know, you`ve got to break a few eggs to make an omelet, right Jack?
CAFFERTY: I guess so, Joy. Is Whoopi going to be on?
BEHAR: Whoopi on this show? She will be at some point. She`ll be breaking a few eggs and a few legs. Thanks, Jack, for coming on.
OK, some of the opposition to President Obama has become downright scary lately. This week, a disturbing poll turned up on Facebook. Look at this. OK, it asks, should Obama be killed? I`m back with Janeane Garofalo and Bay Buchanan. So what`s your reaction to all this unchecked rage, ladies?
BUCHANAN: Well, the poll itself is an outrage and I think all would have agreed to that and it should have been pulled down and I suspect the fellow who was behind is going to be talking to his attorney soon.
But as for the rage, there is true anger in this country, Joy, and it`s very legitimate. I saw it several years ago with the amnesty battles, I see it now. Americans really feel they`re losing this country, they`re losing what they know to be good and they see a Washington that is just not responsive to their concerns. It`s just completely berserk in the way we`re spending. It`s just enormous. They`re bankrupting the country and they`re becoming more and more involved in their lives and the lives of their family. And that is what they`re up in arms against and it`s a good point.
GAROFALO: I disagree entirely. I wish that was true, what you`re saying. And what this rage at Obama from the Tea Partiers to the 9/12ers, to whatever, the birthers, the deathers, this is racially motivated.
BEHAR: You think so?
GAROFALO: This is a group of people, yeah there are legitimate things to be mad about and they should have been in the streets for the last 30 years about all of these legitimate things. This is race. This is the increasing, I guess the post millennial generation, you would say, where and there`s more and more multiculturalism. Anyone born after 1980 is being born into a world -- a country that`s increasingly multicultural. There is so much racism that has come to the surface because of Obama. This is racism, it is not about health care and taxes.
BEHAR: How do you know? This is not something you can really prove directly.
GAROFALO: Well, first of all, you could take a look at a lot of the signs that are being held up at a lot of these rallies. Secondly, it`s all white people. And if they were upset about taxes, if they were upset about bloated government, if they were upset about government dishonesty, then boy, the Bush administration would have been a prime target for all of these things.
BEHAR: You`re nodding. You agree with that?
GAROFALO: No, no, no, she`s not agreeing with me, I`m certain.
BEHAR: She`s nodding.
BUCHANAN: I was nodding because the key here is we were teed off at the Bush administration. There was enormous anger. I was out there at a number of these rallies during the Bush campaign where I was speaking to people who were just absolutely infuriated.
Why do you think they threw out all the Republicans? Because they were teed off at the direction they were taking this country. Seventy-five percent of Americans disagreed with where we were going under Bush and Republicans. That`s why they gave a chance to Obama.
This has absolutely nothing to do with Obama, but with his race. It is what his policies are. And it`s an outrage to suggest that these Americans who truly love their country and are worried and concerned about it who are willing to express themselves publicly and want to see change and this is the only way they know how to do it, is to get out in the streets and go to town hall meetings, that they are suddenly racist because they disagree with the liberal.
BEHAR: But a lot of the posters are racist.
BUCHANAN: There are a few isolated incidents, but that happens in liberal, if you want --
BEHAR: That never happened with George Bush. No one ever had a poster of a white boy.
BUCHANAN: How about the rallies from the amnesty days where the left was out there with anti-American signs?
GAROFALO: There is no -- no, this anti-American myth, I can`t indulge you.
BUCHANAN: I saw the signs myself there. I`m not saying it was all of them.
GAROFALO: Give me an example.
BUCHANAN: They turned the American flag upside down and that`s how they had it upside down, what do you think that says?
GAROFALO: I have no idea since I didn`t see it. This negativeness thing, which I know you have a lot of ties with, whether it be through brother`s campaign or Tom Tancredo.
BUCHANAN: Or maybe through myself.
GAROFALO: Or through yourself, yes. But I`m saying you as an adviser, I was saying from the capacity of a political adviser, I know that you know what I`m talking about and I know that you, like many people don`t want to address this, I don`t know why.
We -- there is nothing wrong with discussing racial issues. There is a real problem. There is a -- 5 percent of people in a poll recently were asked would you ever vote for a black candidate, and the answer was no. That`s millions of people I would assume translated into the aggregate.
BUCHANAN: But 70 percent supported Obama in January.
GAROFALO: I know, that`s fantastic.
BUCHANAN: There are a whole lot of white people that are very proud of the fact that America did it.
GAROFALO: We`re not talking about that.
(CROSSTALK)
GAROFALO: That`s not them, they`re not tea bagging.
BUCHANAN: No, they are. Many of them are.
GAROFALO: No, they`re not.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But we were talking about before, the assassination poll that`s on the Internet. I mean we have never seen that for any other president.
BUCHANAN: Did you hear what was said about Bush?
BEHAR: Yes, but nobody said lets kill him.
BUCHANAN: They said he was Hitler, they are like Hitler. These were terrible statements about him. And I think they were isolated, I don`t think all liberals thought that. I think they disagreed with his policies. But the key here is, nowadays, there are certain elements to say if I disagree with his health care, if I disagree with cap and trade, if I disagree with his war policies, that somehow I`m a racist.
GAROFALO: This is not about policy.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But maybe you`re not, but some people are. I think he`s saying that some are, not everyone.
BUCHANAN: Is there some racism left in this country? Absolutely, but you cannot say the entire tea party movement. I do know these people. I have been among them.
GAROFALO: You can`t know all of them.
BUCHANAN: I was a minuteman.
GAROFALO: I`m sure you were.
BUCHANAN: And I was out there on the border and I knew those people and it was absolutely -- it was absolutely inspiring to see these great Americans out there working on these issues.
GAROFALO: Our own Department of Homeland Security has said that racial hate crimes and right wing race related groups are on the rise. Now I know we`ll never get through this, you and I will never see this. This is racism. I`m not talking about people that it wasn`t racism for. I`m talking about the people that it is.
BEHAR: Are you a little scared of the fact that a lot of these people are carrying guns?
BUCHANAN: It`s the American way to carry a gun.
BEHAR: But to a rally for the president?
BUCHANAN: Joy, did they threaten the president? Was there any concern?
BEHAR: No, but somebody could have a drink.
GAROFALO: What if black people showed up armed? What if groups of black people showed up armed at any of these rallies? Can you imagine the human cry? We would be on lockdown with marshal law.
BUCHANAN: Obama is in the front, they`re there, they listen to him, there are rallies out there. There is a vigorous dialogue going into this country that has helped...
GAROFALO: They want to see his birth certificate and he`s going to kill old people.
BUCHANAN: Fifty-six percent of Americans disapprove of Obama`s health care. That means they don`t want it, and yet Congress is going to try to push it through. They have a right to express themselves and not be called names because of it.
BEHAR: All right, I`m going to have to end it there. You guys have been fabulous. Thanks to my guests. Coming up, Jon and Kate plus eight, minus one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBARA WALTERS, ABC NEWS HOST: Joy Behar makes any discussion note worthy, by her humor, her intelligence and her unique insight. I would have told her all this 12 years ago when she started with us on "The View." But I couldn`t get a word in edgewise until now. Good luck Joy, I love you and to everyone else, take a little time to enjoy the Joy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON GOSSELIN, JON AND KATE PLUS 8: She called me like almost like a lame fish. It`s like, I wasn`t going anywhere. Well excuse me, I`m taking care of the kids. She`s on book tours, she`s doing all these things. I took a lot of abuse from her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Oh, that was Jon Gosselin on "Good Morning America" earlier this month. He won`t have to worry about that whole being abused thing on TV thing anymore because TLC has announced "Jon and Kate Plus 8" will be renamed "Kate Plus 8." Joining me to discuss the reality drama is Janice Min, former editor of "Us Weekly." Janice, what a dumb title. "Kate Plus 8," couldn`t they do any better than that?
JANICE MIN, FORMER EDITOR, US WEEKLY: You know what, it was inevitable. When I was at the magazine, we knew this was going to happen that eventually he would do himself in. This was a man desperate, desperate to get out of this show. He did everything he could to embarrass himself, embarrass her, embarrass the family.
And we had been hearing he wasn`t even showing up to work on time. So they kind of were left with no choice, but I also think his off-camera antics got so embarrassing, so ridiculous, that for them to call themselves a reality show anymore is impossible if they`re not incorporating those elements. The best level of abuse you could give to them now is to just get rid of him all together.
BEHAR: But did she really abuse him? There was some talk about her being, you know, how shall I put this, bitchy, to an extent. Is that true?
MIN: She was bitchy.
BEHAR: But maybe, you know, when you have eight kids to feed and clean and clothe and everything else.
MIN: Yes, I mean, I have two kids and I`m ...
BEHAR: Bitchy.
MIN: I`m a little Kate Gosselin to my husband sometimes. So I think that`s part of why American women could get behind that show. They could kind of -- they didn`t like her, they didn`t like the behavior, but I think there`s elements they didn`t like about themselves also.
BEHAR: I know but now that she has this show all by herself now, "Kate Plus 8," but she carried eight kids, can she carry the show?
MIN: I mean, the ratings are down, the ratings are way down.
BEHAR: It went from 10.6 million to 1.7 million, that`s quite a drop.
MIN: I mean, part of the joy of watching that show was seeing this couple have domestic warfare going on at home.
BEHAR: So is it going to survive without the tension and the fighting?
MIN: It`s never getting back up to 10 million viewers.
BEHAR: But maybe that`s why Kate Gosselin wants to do another show. I heard she`s got some pilot going on with Paula Deen.
MIN: Well, I mean, she changed the hair, she`s making over herself.
BEHAR: She`s redoing herself.
MIN: She needs another act. You can only milk those kids for so long. When they`re 14, it`s not so cute.
BEHAR: I know. But with Paula Deen, they could have a food fight, that could help.
MIN: Someone will throw something at her, I guarantee it.
BEHAR: It`s possible, you know, and then "In Touch" reports that Jon is apologizing. He wants to put the divorce on hold. He says that he doesn`t know now. Does he regret throwing her under the bus?
IN: He`s thrown her under the bus so badly, you can`t pick that corpse up. It is done. I kind of doubt he wants back in. You don`t go on national TV and say that you`re 23-year-old pot-smoking new woman is your soul mate and your wife never was. He said some things that you cannot take back.
BEHAR: It`s like that other one, Sanford with his rap about how he found his soul mate. Women hate that. It`s one thing to go and have sex with another chick and to have sex with them, but don`t say it`s your soulmate.
MIN: Yeah, yeah.
BEHAR: Give me a break. But why do we care about these people? I blame you mostly.
MIN: Yeah, I`m sorry.
BEHAR: You and "Us Weekly." I mean, you hyped this thing up for us.
MIN: Well, I kind of started it at "Us Weekly." It seemed like a good little story. I didn`t realize it would become the summer of Jon and Kate now, the fall of Jon and Kate.
BEHAR: It`s like the summer of Sam. OK, Janice, thanks very much for coming on.
Bette Midler joins me a little lately -- later, not lately, later. So stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Today, legendary director Roman Polanski is sitting in a Swiss jail and fighting extradition to the United States. Maybe he should have thought of all this before having sex with a 13-year-old three decades ago.
Joining me to discuss this are Judge Jeanine Pirro and "Hollywood Reporter" columnist Roger Friedman.
So Jeanine, is his goose cooked? Is he done? Is he going to jail finally?
JUDGE JEANINE PIRRO, HOST, JUDGE JEANINE PIRRO: Here`s a guy who has pled guilty. He has admitted that he had unlawful sexual intercourse with a 13-year-old. Should he go to jail? Absolutely he should go to jail.
But the question is whether or not the Swiss authorities will allow the United States to extradite him back to be sentenced on the crime that he already admitted his guilt to. Remember, he was facing the sentencing in 1978. He flew the coop. He left the country.
ROGER FRIEDMAN, "THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER": It`s not that simple. It`s just that simple.
PIRRO: It`s very simple.
FRIEDMAN: No, he served time.
BEHAR: How much time did he serve?
FRIEDMAN: He served 43 days.
PIRRO: Not as a sentence. It was prior to his plea.
FRIEDMAN: It was prior, and then they thought they had a deal. And they were told that the judge was going to renege on the deal. And based on knowing that the judge was going to renege on the deal, and there`s an excellent documentary about this that came out last year.
There was a lot of malfeasance in court. Actually, the prosecutor from the case went over to his side now and is telling what happened. so there`s a lot that went on that we don`t even know about.
PIRRO: If they`re going to renege on the deal, what happens is they allow you to withdraw the plea. He didn`t want to go to trial. He supplied a 13-year-old with alcohol and Quaaludes and admitted he had sex with her. He was charged with rape. He could have faced 50 years. He was getting 18 months, and he leaves the country.
FRIEDMAN: He admitted to having sex with a minor.
BEHAR: Let`s listen to what he said in an HBO documentary, "Roman Polanski, Wanted and Desired," when he was...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROMAN POLANSKI, DIRECTOR: I ran away because I think it was very unfortunate to hear the judge who misused justice, and he was playing with me for a period of a year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PIRRO: Do you know what the shame of this is? The shame of it is, if you have admitted your guilt to having sex with a child, you now want to say the judge is unfair.
Last year, he brought a motion in California, and the judge said, look, if you think the judge was unfair then, submit yourself to the jurisdiction of the United States, and I will consider it. That`s all he needs to do is come back to the U.S. and face the music.
FRIEDMAN: He`s 67 years old, so he doesn`t want to go to jail.
PIRRO: Don`t you believe if you do the crime, you should do the time no matter when it was?
FRIEDMAN: No. In some cases, yes. And in this case, the victim, the woman, Samantha Geimer, who`s 45 years old, and who I have interviewed several times and is a lovely person, has said that she doesn`t think this should go on. Everyone should put this behind them.
And do you want to show the clip.
BEHAR: Here she is. Check out what she said on "Larry King" in 2003.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAMANTHA GEIMER, ROMAN POLANSKI`S VICTIM: I got over it a long time ago. I mean it`s been a long time and I wasn`t prepared to carry a lot of bad feelings with me and further damage my life and continue, you know, the -- just the trauma of all of it. And today, I mean I don`t know, he`s a strange tore me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PIRRO: Good for her. She`s moved on. But that doesn`t mean that the criminal justice system should.
BEHAR: Right.
PIRRO: It is not her against Roman Polanski.
BEHAR: Wasn`t she paid off, Roger?
FRIEDMAN: There was some settlement. There was a settlement. But even a settlement would not require her to keep doing this defense. That was not a part of the settlement.
And so what`s happened is, as the years have gone by and there`s been efforts to bring him back to the United States and exonerate him, she`s become more entrenched actually.
I interviewed her in 2003 and last year when the documentary came out. She`s become more entrenched in her position that he should be let go.
BEHAR: Because she says she feels that the media is worse than the act at this point.
PIRRO: Joy, it doesn`t matter. The truth is the man had sex, he is a pedophile, with a 13-year-old. And the fact she`s forgiven him, good for her. She`s moved on. But it`s the people of the state of California against Roman Polanski.
BEHAR: Wouldn`t you say, for instance, a war criminal, that could be found...
FRIEDMAN: Yes, war criminal should definitely be tried and executed immediately. Nazi war criminals...
BEHAR: I`m not saying that she`s a war criminal.
But listen, Roger, if you`re a child and you`re being sexual assaulted by someone who`s 40 years old, that is a war crime in a way, isn`t it?
FRIEDMAN: It is. But this isn`t a typical case of pedophilia. There were a lot of stories -- Samantha Geimer will tell you herself, there were a lot of stories about the extenuating circumstances.
PIRRO: Then why did he plead guilty? Why did he admit his crime in a Voir Dire? He admitted that he put his sexual part in hers when she was 13. That is rape as far as I`m concerned.
FRIEDMAN: It`s not rape. He wasn`t tried for rape. He wasn`t convicted for rape.
BEHAR: Statutory rape.
FRIEDMAN: It wasn`t statutory rape. It was called...
PIRRO: Unlawful intercourse with a 13-year-old.
FRIEDMAN: Did you see the word "rape" in there? No.
BEHAR: Why don`t they call it rape?
PIRRO: Because they gave him a plea bargain. The said to him because he used all of his favors back then because he`s a celebrity, they gave him a plea bargain. He could have faced 50 years. He was getting 18 months. Come on.
FRIEDMAN: But the judge was going to renege on the plea bargain.
PIRRO: And then he would have been allowed to withdraw his plea.
BEHAR: Listen to how Hollywood is dealing with this. Deborah Winger reacted to Polanski`s arrest. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We came to honor Roman Polanski as a great artist. But under these sudden and arcane circumstances, we can only think of him today as a human being, uncertain of the year ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: They`re all rallying around him.
FRIEDMAN: They`re all rallying around.
BEHAR: There`s a petition demanding his release, and it`s being signed by Woody Allen. Hello?
PIRRO: There`s a shock.
BEHAR: Hello? Martin Scorsese -- that`s shocking -- David Lynch, Jonathan Demme, Tilda Swinton, the actress.
FRIEDMAN: Actually when the film came out last year with HBO, I think they had 100 directors who signed a support letter for him.
BEHAR: What`s their rationale? Because he`s a great director he should get off?
FRIEDMAN: He`s a great artist, that the victim has asked that they thing be let go.
So in that case, and it`s 31 years, he has never been any kind of danger to anybody.
PIRRO: That we know of.
FRIEDMAN: No, that is true. He has had a very good 20-year marriage. He has children. This was an isolated incident.
(CROSSTALK)
FRIEDMAN: This was an isolated incident.
PIRRO: Out of 75 years, he only had a 20-year marriage? The guy`s been doing something for 55 other years.
FRIEDMAN: Excuse me, don`t forget, he was married to Sharon Tate. She was murdered.
BEHAR: That brings me to my last thing on this. Do you feel any sympathy for him Jeanine, the fact that he escaped the holocaust, that his family was killed in the holocaust, that Sharon Tate was despicably killed by the Manson Family, and he had to live with that. Do we have any feeling about that?
PIRRO: Of course we do, and he is a great director. None of this takes away from it.
But you don`t say to somebody that you can get away with murder, you can get away with ruining a 13-year-old`s life and taking away her innocence because you`ve been through pain. Nobody denies that he`s been through pain and that`s why I believe he was given the plea bargain.
That`s why I believe they said we`re going to move on from this. We`ll give you a few months and that will be the end of it.
FRIEDMAN: Let`s talk about what`s happening now. What`s happening now is that since the beginning of the year his lawyers based on the movie have been in court trying to overturn the old case, bring new evidence.
And also Samantha Geimer made her own motion to have the case undone. At the same time, there`s a documentary filmmaker, the same one, who`s been in court filming all year, and they have made the court crazy in Los Angeles.
What it`s done is aggravated the court. You know as a prosecutor, if you had all these people in your courtroom, as a judge now on TV, if you had all these people in your courtroom trying to overturn the system, people would be angry.
PIRRO: No.
(CROSSTALK)
PIRRO: They have been trying to get him for 20, 30 years, 12 different countries.
BEHAR: Thanks to both my guests.
Up next, the Divine Ms. M.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: This lady made TV history and won an Emmy as Johnny Carson`s last guest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETTE MIDLER, SINGER ACTRESS (SINGING): Hello.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: One of the great moments in television. And now she`s my first guest. Here`s hoping the magic continues. Bette Midler, thank you, honey for coming on my show. It sort of tears us up when we see that, doesn`t it?
MIDLER: Maybe you. For me, I`m all smiles. Once in a while I get misty eyed. He was a wonderful guy. He did so much for me, he did so much for so many people that I know.
BEHAR: Not me, I never got on his show.
MIDLER: That`s too bad.
BEHAR: I`m nothing.
MIDLER: Well, maybe you didn`t deserve to get on his show.
BEHAR: Who cares? I mean, I`m sorry he`s dead and everything.
MIDLER: But here you have a show of your own, congratulations.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Let`s not talk about him.
MIDLER: He was a great guy, and you`re going to have a great run.
BEHAR: I hope so, and I`m glad that you are my first guest and you were his last.
One more question about him. Do you think he really wanted to ever leave? Does anyone ever want to leave?
MIDLER: I think some people want to and some people don`t. Everyone is different. I think there`s some people who work in television today who will have to be carried out feet first.
And there are others who just have had enough. And it`s hard work. It`s really hard work. And when you look around, if you`re a certain kind of person, a curious person, you say, gee, I`ve been doing this for a long time and every day is pretty much the same. Those kinds of people usually say, you know, I have had enough.
BEHAR: What would you say if you weren`t in Vegas?
MIDLER: I wasn`t talk about me. I am not retired and you can`t make me.
BEHAR: You`ll never retire ever?
MIDLER: I would never say never. But if I were going to retire, I wouldn`t announce it. I would just back up into the wings and walk away. Why would you say you`re going to retire? Why would you announce it, because then if you change your mind.
BEHAR: Like Cher, she always has a comeback tour.
MIDLER: God bless her.
BEHAR: Let`s talk politics for a minute. I know that you stumped for Obama.
MIDLER: I did.
BEHAR: Was that the first time you ever stumped for a president?
MIDLER: No, I stumped for a lot of people. I stumped for all the Democrats for years, I think since the late `70s.
BEHAR: They have been calling him a lot of bad names from a fascist to a socialist, which is really stupid because they are the opposite, really. So what do you think about that?
MIDLER: I think it`s a new low in political discourse, and it`s very distressing. I think people of good will are very distressed by it because it`s so ugly and it`s so wacky.
BEHAR: What should people of good will do?
MIDLER: I think people of goodwill should talk rationally and politely in a civil tone, and people should be willing to listen to the other side and the people that you`re speaking to should be willing to listen to your side. That seems to be gone.
BEHAR: Well, we`re trying to do that. But someone like Glenn Beck has made gazillions of dollars because he`s out there being sort of hateful in many ways. He calls himself a clown and a comedian. Do you think it`s funny?
MIDLER: I don`t think he`s funny even a little bit. I`ve never had a laugh from Glenn Beck. In fact, I find him terrifying. He`s like an old school demagogue, and it`s really frightening.
If you look around at the rest of the world and what this kind of behavior has done, like in Rwanda, where the demagogues got on the radio and fomented all that hate between the Tutsis and the Hutus and the devastation that happened from that, I mean, it`s terrifying.
And that could happen, you could turn on a dime. That could happen here.
BEHAR: We have free speech here. And everything he says we can say something else.
MIDLER: I don`t think hate speech is so free. I`m not for censorship. But I also feel like, be a human being.
BEHAR: But you can`t stop people from hate speech because they have the right to say it. It`s the First Amendment.
MIDLER: I think that the people who are educated to be civil are civil. That`s all there is to it. And people who are not educated in any way, who are just a little on the barbaric side, what can you do? But that`s the fault of the education system, I think, and the way they`re brought up.
BEHAR: Speaking of that, what do you think of Sarah Palin?
MIDLER: I think she`s a really interesting character on the American scene.
BEHAR: Do you identify her?
MIDLER: I do not identify with Sarah Palin.
BEHAR: She hunts and fishes.
MIDLER: I don`t think she hunts and fishes, according to Levi Johnston.
BEHAR: Really?
MIDLER: No. According to Levi Johnston in "Vanity Fair" she`s doesn`t hunt or fish or picked up a fishing rod or cooked.
BEHAR: Do you believe him?
MIDLER: You know what? That article is so fascinating because it, the sound of it, the voice in the article seemed as so legitimate, that I thought it could go either way.
BEHAR: So you believe him over her?
MIDLER: It`s interesting.
BEHAR: Those people laughing are Alcoholics Anonymous.
(LAUGHTER)
MIDLER: I don`t actually know the way -- I don`t know many journalists. I know one or two of them. I don`t really know how they do what they do. I don`t know how they manage to elicit all that information from someone like Levi Johnston.
BEHAR: You don`t know if he`s telling the truth in "Vanity Fair."
MIDLER: Do you know if anyone is telling the truth at all, ever. It`s gotten to that point where you just don`t know. You used to have these avuncular guys, these father figures, Walter Cronkite, he`s telling it like it is. But where is Walter?
BEHAR: He died a few weeks ago.
(LAUGHTER)
MIDLER: I know that. But what I mean --
BEHAR: You have mentioned two dead people in this one conversation so far.
MIDLER: And we could go on. This is a very bad year.
(LAUGHTER)
MIDLER: I want to change the subject.
MIDLER: And I`m dying right now.
BEHAR: You and I are constantly being -- they think I`m you and they think you`re me. Let`s just look at the camera together for a second. There`s a picture. Look. Do we look alike?
MIDLER: I have a look on my face like buy are you pointing that camera at me. And you`re like, hey, there I am.
BEHAR: I look like someone is pointing at something behind me.
MIDLER: In this right here, we have had photographs taken of us where we do look very, very much alike, especially when I had red hair. But I haven`t had red hair for 30 years, so there you go.
BEHAR: I went on a cruise when before I had "The View." And I`m on this cruise and I performed, and I walked around the boat and I talked to people for the whole cruise. And I heard someone say, how could they afford Bette Midler?
(LAUGHTER)
That`s a true story.
MIDLER: I was in Paris on a little holiday not so long ago.
BEHAR: Did you see Roman Polanski?
MIDLER: I did not see him.
But I went to the Louvre. And a lady turned to me and said you look like Bette Midler. And I said, "Imagine." I bet you wish you had her money.
BEHAR: That`s a good story.
I love your work.
MIDLER: Thank you.
BEHAR: I saw you in Vegas. I saw you in theaters in New York in the old days when you were first starting with Barry Manilow, all those great years, and I have all your albums. I`m gushing now.
MIDLER: Thank you.
BEHAR: But you are not blue, you`re not really blue.
MIDLER: I do, I work blue.
BEHAR: I would not say that was blue. I would say you are bawdy.
MIDLER: I am bawdy. You have to tell the audience at home what "blue" means.
BEHAR: Well, "blue" means that you`re swearing. You might drop the f-bomb, for example, and other words that George Carlin said not to use on television. But you can do it in a concert.
MIDLER: Yes, you can, and I do. So I sometimes feel like I`m working a little blue for my crowd.
BEHAR: They love it.
MIDLER: My husband says they pay to hear you swear. And I was almost like offended. But now I think he`s right.
BEHAR: People love that stuff.
We`re going the take a break. Bette Midler is not going anywhere. We`ll be back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Over the weekend Iran fired two missiles even after the United States, France, and England told them not to. Now, which part of "no" doesn`t Mahmoud Ahmadinejad understand?
It`s one thing to tick off the U.S., England and France. So what, who cares? But you don`t want to tick off Israel. They already have nuclear weapons. They might use them, and they`re 15 minutes away from you.
Not to mention their prime minister, Bebe Netanyahu is not a wimp and will not be pushed around by a psychotic holocaust denier such as yourself, Mahmoud.
So, Mr. Ahmadinejad, don`t think you`re such a big shot. I never liked you anyway. I never enjoyed your act. You were boring when you spoke at Colombia, you were annoying on Larry King, and you were tedious at the U.N. Even Gadhafi thinks you`re a hack.
The world is watching you and they don`t believe a word that comes out of your mouth. As my mother used to say (inaudible), which I`m pretty sure translates to "Never trust a short man with a long-range missile."
(LAUGHTER)
But that`s just me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: That was the divine Bette Midler performing at Cesar`s Palace in Las Vegas. She`s back here for dates in October and November.
MIDLER: Yes, very exciting.
BEHAR: What are you going to do?
MIDLER: I`m going to do two weeks in October and take a week off and do my Halloween party.
BEHAR: The Hulaween.
MIDLER: It`s a Hawaiian Halloween. And then I`m going to go back for two more weeks in November, and I`m going to kick some ass.
BEHAR: Tell the audience who the Hulaween party is for.
MIDLER: The Hulaween party is for my organization. I founded it 14 years ago. It`s called New York Restoration Project. We clean parks in underserved neighborhoods. We are the owners and designers and care takers after 55 community gardens. We teach children`s environmental education.
BEHAR: Very good.
MIDLER: We teach rowing programs. We teach, teach, teach.
BEHAR: You`re very good. Do you have OCD or something?
MIDLER: I think I do.
BEHAR: What do you have that causes you to want to clean up New York?
MIDLER: I think it`s a compulsion. I really do. But I can`t help it. I was brought up in the most beautiful spot in the whole world.
BEHAR: Hawaii.
MIDLER: Hawaii. And when I came to the continent of the United States, continent of North America, I said, why are the clouds brown? Why --
BEHAR: That was California, right?
MIDLER: That was California. And why is there garbage on the street? I couldn`t understand that. And it really disturbed me.
So that was my mission. I got on that path and never left. I never I would be still picking up garbage so many years after I stopped dating it.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: That`s a good line.
MIDLER: Thank you.
BEHAR: OK. So, Vegas, how do you like Vegas?
MIDLER: I like it. I like it a lot. I`ve actually gotten to know the town a little bit. I have friends there. I have relationships.
BEHAR: You have friends there that are normal people?
MIDLER: Yes, normal people. There a lot of normal people there.
I learned poker. I can`t play blackjack but I did learn poker. I have my thing I carry with me all the time so I can memorize.
BEHAR: How does your husband like it there?
MIDLER: He doesn`t mind it at all.
BEHAR: He`s a performer, too?
MIDLER: He is a performer.
BEHAR: I saw him at your birthday party. He did a performance art thing. He was very charming.
MIDLER: He`s extremely charming, and he`s brilliant. He`s just brilliant.
BEHAR: So you`re going to keep him?
MIDLER: Well, 25 years.
BEHAR: Yes.
MIDLER: Yes. So he loves all this. He`s seen the show 40 or 50 times, and he cries and laughs every single time.
BEHAR: Oh my god.
MIDLER: He`s crazy.
BEHAR: He`s a keeper.
MIDLER: He is really crazy.
BEHAR: He is really nuts. You should keep him, though.
MIDLER: I got him.
BEHAR: OK, Bette, I`m so happy you came to see me.
MIDLER: Is that it? Is it over?
BEHAR: We are done. We had such a good time. This was my first show. I had a wonderful night with all my friends here tonight.
MIDLER: I just want to say that Hulaween is on October 30th this year at the Waldorf Astoria. Be there or be square. Crosby, Stills, and Nash are going to be entertaining. I`ll probably serve chicken pot pie.
BEHAR: You usually sing.
MIDLER: I always sing. We`re honoring the mayor.
BEHAR: Mayor Bloomberg?
MIDLER: Yes.
BEHAR: OK, thanks honey, very much, my special guest, Bette Midler, and to all my panelists for joining me tonight. And thank you for watching. I`ll be back right here tomorrow. Good night, everybody.
(APPLAUSE)
Got through day one!
END