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Joy Behar Page
Interview with Bill Maher; Hollywood Stars Defend Roman Polanski; Shocking Silence in the Chicago Teen Beating
Aired September 30, 2009 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HLN ANCHOR: Joining me tonight, author, pundit, provocative white chick Ann Coulter.
Also in the studio offering her unique take on family values; Victoria Gotti.
And are Democrats finally taking a page from the Republican play book and dumbing down the discourse?
I`ll discuss that and more with host the of HBO`s "Real Time" the fabulous Bill Maher.
All that and more from the Time Warner Center in New York City tonight.
My first guest, like me, is known for speaking his mind and pissing people off so naturally I had to have him on my second show. He`s the host of HBO`s "Real Time with Bill Maher" the lovely and talented Bill Maher.
Hey, Bill. How are you?
BILL MAHER, HOST, "REAL TIME WITH BILL MAHER": Joy, congratulations.
BEHAR: Thank you. Thank you.
All right, let`s start off with a topic that`s near and dear to both of our hearts: health care and Congress. Check out this clip of Florida Congressman Allen Grayson for a second.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ALLEN GRAYSON, (D) FLORIDA: If you get sick in America, this is what the Republicans want you to do. If you get sick, America, the Republican health care plan is this, die quickly. That`s right. The Republicans want you to die quickly if you get sick.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. Is it me or did a Democrat actually behave like a Republican?
MAHER: Who is that man?
BEHAR: His name is -- he`s a Florida Congressman. His name is Allen Grayson. You haven`t seen that before?
MAHER: I haven`t. But I think I got to get him on the show. He`s a funny, funny man. And you know, I have been interviewing Congressmen for like 17 years and it`s always amazing to me when you meet them in person.
Now, there are some who are bright. The Democrats have a good few people, Barney Frank, that guy Anthony Weiner.
BEHAR: An unfortunate name but a lovely man.
MAHER: Right, lovely man, very bright -- Bernie Sanders, Marcy Captor who is on our show Friday. But, you know, in general, Congress people -- you know, they`re just not that bright. When you meet them, you`re like, wow. You`re one of the people who runs this country? Amazing.
BEHAR: But I think...
MAHER: But again, -- you know he`s not completely wrong.
BEHAR: No, what the guy was doing I think was using the sort of like hyperbolic sound bite that really gets the other side crazy like they did with death panels. It`s not that dissimilar.
But his GOP colleagues were very upset by -- look at what Representative Dan Burton had to say immediately after seeing that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DAN BURTON, (R) INDIANA: I can`t believe what I just saw. I can`t believe it. First of all, it`s totally wrong. And secondly, it`s making fun of a very important issue for the American people.
We do have health care problems in this country. And we need to solve those health care problems but coming down here and making light of the issue by coming up with a lot of silly talk is just ridiculous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: The man is shocked, I tell you, shocked by this outrageous conduct. How dare the Democrats Palinize such a serious topic.
MAHER: I`m so jealous of China. You know? It`s a dictatorship. And they`re very efficient and if only we had something like that.
Yes, I mean I was very, very disappointed to see the public option kind of die. You know, the senate, you know, this is where progress seems to go to die. I`m not even sure we need one anymore.
BEHAR: Well, it did die today, I think or maybe. Do you think there`s any hope for it at all? You have...
MAHER: I really...
BEHAR: ...five Blue Dog Democrats joined by Republicans in voting no.
MAHER: Right. I really don`t because I don`t think these people really even understand, the people in Congress, who they`re supposed to be representing. You know, when they complain about the public option, you hear things like, well, the government doesn`t have to make a profit.
Yes, exactly, because they`re working for us. They`re not working for AETNA. I mean, they`ve really lost sight of what the government`s function is. They`re so owned by corporations that they -- they`re unabashed about advertising that right out in front of us.
BEHAR: But do you think that Obama has lost control of the party at this point? I mean, I feel as though his -- his vibe is sort of getting weak.
MAHER: Well, he was -- he was never an arm twister. You know? Maybe he has to learn that. There`s always a learning curve with presidents and there is going to be with this one, too. You know, I said months ago that he needed a little George Bush in him.
And of course, I didn`t mean he needed George Bush`s horrible ideas but if we could marry the good ideas that Obama has with the kind of swagger that George Bush had. I mean, George Bush didn`t care if anybody liked him.
BEHAR: Right.
MAHER: And that worked out real well because not many people do. But Bush, when you think about the ideas that Bush pushed through: pre-emptive war, no one was looking to go to war in Iraq after 9/11; giving away all the tax money to the very richest one percent, certainly no one was clamoring for that.
You know, he was a master at just getting what he wanted because he didn`t really care. And I think Obama could use a little of that. He`s a little too nice. You know? He had this grand idea that the Republicans would play ball with him and had the interest of the country at heart.
Well, he needs to get over that. And be a little bit of an A-hole.
BEHAR: What do you make of all this sort of hate speech going on? I don`t want to mention names but Glenn Beck is watching my show right now and it`s possible that he`s trying to think of new ways to yell at Obama and cause people to be raging and angry.
What do you make of all of that?
MAHER: Well, you know, I keep saying that we don`t really have a progressive party in this country. Glenn Beck is part of the Republican Party. You know, the Democrats as -- if you take away the few people I just mentioned before, you know, that`s a center right party.
They`re a great party if you want to -- a party to represent the pharmaceutical companies and the health insurance industry and big agriculture and all that kind of stuff. And then you have the Republicans which are just a bunch of religious lunatics, Flat Earthers, civil war re- enactors.
BEHAR: And those are the good points.
MAHER: ...and bimbos.
I mean -- I mean, I can disagree ideologically with someone and I can respect an ideological disagreement but the Republican Party in the last 20, 30 years has really gone toward this nonintellectual-type of person.
Sarah Palin, George Bush...
BEHAR: Right.
MAHER: ...Dan Quayle and the commentators, also. There -- it`s not an ideological difference. They just don`t know anything. They`re bimbos. He`s a bimbo and he`s a crazy one.
I`m telling you -- it is not that long before we`re going to find Glenn Beck dressed as a woman or playing with his feces or something.
BEHAR: Yes and I don`t want to miss -- that`s a reality show I don`t want to miss.
MAHER: He is extremely unhinged and it`s going to happen on air.
BEHAR: Do you think so? I hope so. That would be so much fun to watch.
MAHER: I do.
BEHAR: Let me just switch gears for a second and ask you why is the Hollywood community rallying behind Roman Polanski? Do you have any idea what`s going on there?
MAHER: I don`t. You know, I`m certainly not rallying behind Roman Polanski. And you know, I`m the guy who doesn`t particularly like children. I don`t really have a dog in that kind of fight but, you know, I find, you know, if you give a 13-year-old girl a Quaalude and then do her in a naughty place against her will, I mean, if that`s not a crime, you know, I don`t know where we draw the line here.
BEHAR: Exactly.
MAHER: But, you know, Joy, you know, a Polish pedophile, Joy, he hits on adults. Anyway, I thought I`d get that joke.
BEHAR: Ok. That was funny.
I didn`t see your name on the petition that Woody Allen signed so I assume that you were not really going to back up this guy, but they just all coming out.
MAHER: No. People very often defend Hollywood out here by saying, those, you know, who call us too permissive are just to square. Well, this is a case where, yes, we are too permissive. I mean, if that`s what Hollywood wants to advertise, you know, that we`re behind Roman Polanski, I don`t want any part of it. You know, obviously, it`s an old case.
But still, I mean, if you can get away with doing that to a kid, I guess you can get away with anything.
BEHAR: Yes, I guess you`re right. I mean, even Sharon Tate`s sister; she even called the child a young woman. I mean, even the way that they`re describing this poor, young girl, and she was 13 years old, 13 is not a young woman; 13 is a child. You have pimples. You don`t even have boobs yet in many cases.
MAHER: Right.
BEHAR: I mean that is a child.
MAHER: And it seems a lot of the defense is, he`s a great artist. Who cares?
BEHAR: Right.
MAHER: So what?
BEHAR: Right.
MAHER: And he`s a great artist -- great -- who did a horrible thing.
BEHAR: Right.
MAHER: You know or the other one. It was in Jack Nicholson`s hot tub. Like, well, come on, if you go into Jack Nicholson`s hot tub, I think we all know all bets are off.
BEHAR: I know.
MAHER: Even a 13-year-old should know that.
BEHAR: Exactly.
And, you know, to this idea that because he`s an artist, he`s excused, I`m sure Pol Pot could really paint a great picture but so what?
MAHER: Right.
BEHAR: You know what I`m saying? It`s like every war criminal...
MAHER: You hit it right there.
BEHAR: ...have some talent. What can I tell you? Thanks very much, Bill, for coming on.
MAHER: Hitler.
BEHAR: I know, Hitler, but we don`t want to use Hitler anymore, it`s kind of a hackey (ph) expression. We have to wait awhile and build it up again.
MAHER: No Hitler.
BEHAR: Ok, thanks very much for coming on.
We`ll be back in a minute.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know Joy Behar. How long have I known Joy Behar? The name registers definitely.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s funny. She`s smart. She knows what`s going on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sexy? Yes. No, yes. A little bit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sexy. I wouldn`t kick you out of bed for eating crackers I`ll tell you that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she opinionated? Yes, I think people should be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love that she`s opinionated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is quite liberal, isn`t she?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s a little too liberal for me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I don`t think she`s too liberal. I like her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As far as me personally, I really don`t care for her that much but good luck, Joy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEBRA TATE, SHARON TATE`S SISTER: He was evaluated not to be a pedophile and there`s as I said rape and then there`s rape. It was determined that Roman did not force bring have sex with this young woman. It was -- it was a consensual matter.
BEHAR: Ok. That was Roman Polanski`s former sister-in-law Debra Tate on NBC`s "The Today Show." As Roman Polanski continues to fight extradition from Switzerland, Hollywood continues to rally around him, as well as this woman, obviously.
Joining me now to discuss this case are criminal defense attorney Joey Johnson, clinical psychiatrist Gayle Saltz and Ashleigh Banfield, host of Tru TV`s "Open Court."
First of all, don`t you have a reaction to her calling her a young woman and that there`s rape and there`s rape? They`re protecting this man. I don`t understand what`s going on. Anybody have a comment?
GAYLE SALTZ, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: When you`re 13, there isn`t there`s rape and there`s rape. It`s simply -- you can`t call it consensual.
BEHAR: Right.
SALTZ: A young girl of that age does not have the frontal lobe, frankly, to make the decision to have sex and certainly not when she`s drugged on alcohol and Quaaludes.
BEHAR: But the words that they use like "young woman" instead of "child" sort of distorts the story, doesn`t it?
ASHLEY BANFIELD, TRU TV HOST: Yes. She is 13. I`ll go one further. There is no rape and rape. If you`re 26 and someone gives wine and champagne and Quaaludes and have sex with you when you`re saying no, no, no, it`s rape according to the law.
BEHAR: Right. Right.
JOEY JOHNSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes.
You know what Joy? There`s really two issues though. The first issue is, of course, whether he raped her and clearly he did and we know that because he pled to it. And so what we have in law...
BEHAR: He didn`t plead to rape.
JOHNSON: What happened -- he pled to intercourse.
BANFIELD: Unlawful sex with a minor.
JOHNSON: Right, unlawful sexual intercourse but the reality is that you lack capacity in the law to consent. But the other issue is really has the passage of time and the fact that now the victim who`s in has mid-40s has excused this; there`s been a settlement there.
He`s 76 years old himself. He`s been on the lam for 36 years. And now looking at it at this point, should it now be excused? It`s going to be an international crisis.
BEHAR: Listen to this film maker friend of his, what he said. "He`s a brilliant guy," he said. And he made a little mistake 32 years ago. What a shame for Switzerland."
Since when does Switzerland -- Switzerland is now the victim in this story. Weren`t they neutral?
SALTZ: This is a tremendous amount of denial and identification. There are people out there who want to feel if I did something that I`d like to consider to be a little mistake, whether it was or not, I want to be able to be excused.
Those are the people, frankly, that are rallying. Maybe I had a thought that wasn`t ok. Maybe I`ve done something in my past that wasn`t ok. I want to know that I don`t have to pay the ultimate punishment for that.
JOHNSON: But from a defense perspective, look at it this way. He pled and then, of course, a plea agreement in place where he served 40-some days -- 47 days and the reason that he didn`t come back was, of course, he felt the judge would not go by that plea agreement and ultimately settle, you know, settle on more time.
And so the reality is that you have to look at it in context. He did do something. It was abysmal; it was terrible. It shouldn`t have been done. But now we`re talking 30 years later and this is beyond a warrant sent by L.A. to get him back. This is an international dispute.
BEHAR: But actors -- some actors, not a lot -- I mean, some people and directors are backing him up. What do you think is the motive for backing him up in Hollywood and Europe? A lot of it is in Europe.
BANFIELD: I`m actually -- Europeans I get it. They don`t think it`s such a big deal.
BEHAR: Why not?
BANFIELD: Culturally. You have to go to Europe to walk in those shoes.
BEHAR: A child is a child. I don`t get that.
BANFIELD: I get it too. We`re Americans and we feel differently about this, period. They feel differently about it, let them deal the way they deal.
But legally speaking I got to say this country has a black eye in this case because it wasn`t just a case of he got wind that maybe the judge will renege on the deal, he got tipped off the that the judge was going to throw the book at him and put him away for up to 50 years because the judge wasn`t happy with the media he was getting.
It was ugly what went on in chambers. It was illegal what went on in chambers and it has admitted to by the prosecutor who was involved.
BEHAR: So you don`t blame him for going on the lam?
BANFIELD: I don`t blame him. I hate to say it. I`m the last person to say flout the law, take off. But I really feel that in his circumstance, he was being cheated by a system, truly cheated. There was an illegal process going on in chambers.
What else was he to do? Stand by, go to jail and wait to try to fight this thing? He could have been sitting in there for ten years fighting this.
SALTZ: We have a dilemma as a society. We can`t condone -- we can`t in the end of the day say you don`t have to be punished for a crime that you did -- you weren`t punished for yet that you even admitted to. And we can`t condone -- you`re going to run away and simply avoid your punishment by living out a wonderful life and winning an academy award somewhere else.
BEHAR: Yes.
SALTZ: We can`t condone it.
BEHAR: The Hollywood people and European directors have signed a petition for him. Guess who`s on the list, Woody Allen.
Surprise, surprise.
SALTZ: You know, Oedipus falls in that list of things that people like to deny.
(CROSS TALK)
BANFIELD: I don`t know what their motivation, Joy, is because they love him and they think he`s a storied director and they want support him. Or whether they fall into the category of he was cheated, he was cheated by this country.
He was offered a chance to come back in `97 and actually stand in court, assert his rights, challenge this malfeasance that went on and then he would be sentenced to time already served but if I were him, I`m not sure I would want to come back to a country that was ready to cheat me in the first place.
JOHNSON: But a lot of it is because look, these are his friends. He`s made a reputation in that industry and he`s done exceedingly well. And the fact is let`s not say he wasn`t punished -- I know I`ll get creamed for this -- but there was a plea agreement in place and he thought he would get time served. He did spend time in jail.
Was it our measure of punishment? Do we think it`s appropriate? Maybe not. But at the end of the day he did serve punishment and these people are his friends. They`re backing him up.
Is he the person he was...
BEHAR: And they probably want jobs and some of them are covering their own butts because they have their little skeletons in the closet maybe.
JOHNSON: Hollywood is that -- the culture of Hollywood. But not to indict Hollywood; a lot of them engage in a behavior of their own.
BEHAR: A lot of this Hollywood thing makes Middle America hate Hollywood even more. Thanks to my panel.
Al Sharpton joins me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you know that Joy Behar has a new show?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: CNN Headline News.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really? What is it about?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s like a talk show. It`s about current affairs and you know, whatever is going on -- whatever Joy wants. Joy`s a talker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is it called?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s called "THE JOY BEHAR SHOW."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes? Have you noticed that when you left the view her career took off?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Skyrocketed. What is that about?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know. Congratulations, Joy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes Joy. I`m not at all surprised. You will be absolutely fantastic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: This is a horrendous story out of the Midwest. An innocent teen was fatally beaten at a Chicago bus stop Thursday and police are still looking for three teenagers they believe were involved. The amazing thing about this crime was that it was caught on cell phone video.
Joining me now is civil rights leader and the president of National Action Network, the Reverend Al Sharpton. Reverend Al -- for those people who haven`t seen this disturbing footage, I`m going to show you a few seconds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zoom in. Zoom in.
(TEENAGER BEING BEATEN)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: It`s very hard to look at. You know? It`s amateur footage given to us by WFLD and this horrific video was shot on a cell phone. Why wasn`t that cell phone used to call the cops?
REVEREND AL SHARPTON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Well, that`s a good question. Why wasn`t it used to call the cops?
What is being done citywide to deal with this real problem of youth violence? This is the third young man to be killed this month. Many young people killed in Chicago with gun fire and the community must be just as outraged when we have these internal problems of murder as we are when we have external. I mean, I`m outraged by it.
National Action Organization of Chicago is meeting with the loaders there. We have got to really come to terms with the fact that this young crowd that is really perpetrating this violence on other young people must be confronted by people in the community themselves.
BEHAR: Why is it that more people are not coming out? No one`s coming out to turn anybody in. Is there a snitching issue in the neighborhood or what?
SHARPTON: I think that we`ve gotten from some of the culture this no- snitch kind of thing and no-snitch only gives people the right to violate you and abuse you and murder you and feel that there`s not going to be answer.
Snitching came back in the days when people were doing crimes together and didn`t tell on each other; when people are perpetrating crimes against you that`s protecting yourself and your community. We got to turn that around and I think the hip hop industry, the black leadership, the city leadership, everybody`s got to come out there and say, if you know something, you must come forward. We cannot allow and tolerate this in our community.
BEHAR: Maybe they`re afraid of reprisal. Maybe these kids are scared to talk.
SHARPTON: I think if there`s an infrastructure put in place to guarantee them that whatever information that came -- they would be protected and even kept to be anonymous, that confidence must be built up. But the real problem is that they will have reprisals if they don`t do anything.
If we continue -- I repeat, Joy, this is the third murder of young people in Chicago -- if we repeat allowing this to happen without people paying for it, this is going to keep happening.
BEHAR: But this kid said that he felt threatened in the neighborhood before. You know? Why aren`t -- why doesn`t he feel protected? Why aren`t the children in that neighborhood being protected well enough by the police?
SHARPTON: Because we have not called on this kind of accountability. We have not come forward and called on accountability of community neighbors and community leaders. And I think the fact that this young man said he was threatened before and this happened to him is even a further indictment on all of us that need to be doing more about this.
This is a crisis.
BEHAR: Yes. There`s only a $6,000 reward for the perpetrator. That`s not enough, is it?
SHARPTON: No. I think that will go up substantially this weekend. I`m talking again to some of the community leaders there in Chicago. But I think it`s not even a question of a reward though I think it should be higher. It`s a question of the crisis. We have to do something about it. We have to do it quickly and dramatically.
BEHAR: Thank you so much, Reverend Al, for coming on the show.
SHARPTON: All right, Joy.
BEHAR: When we come back -- thank you -- I`ll be joined by Ann Coulter.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: OK. Even some of President Obama`s biggest supporters say he is too easy on his opponents. That`s probably something you`ll never hear about my next guest. I`m here with the always candid, the always cute Ann Coulter. Hi, Ann.
ANN COULTER, REPUBLCIAN STRATEGIST: Hello.
BEHAR: OK. First I want to start off, before he died, Don Hewitt called me and he saw you and me on Larry King`s show and he said two things.
COULTER: Never do that again.
BEHAR: Well, he is gone now but still.
COULTER: No, I`m guessing that`s what he said to you.
BEHAR: No, no, no. He said, this is the first time I`ve ever really liked Ann Coulter, number one. And number two, he said, but you know what, I think it`s just an act. Is it an act? What do you think about all of that?
COULTER: I got a lot of comments to this day.
BEHAR: From Don Hewitt?
COULTER: Yes. He was calling me saying it`s a first time I`ve ever really liked Joy Behar. No, I`ve had a lot of people saying how they loved us being on together. I mean, even just in the past week or so. And that was the last time I was on with you was like four or five months ago.
BEHAR: Really? Did they see us?
COULTER: I think we`re a good combo team.
BEHAR: Let me ask you like a personal question. Besides a Sarah Palin speech, what makes you happy?
COULTER: What makes me happy?
BEHAR: What makes you happy in the world?
COULTER: Well, the happiest was Bill Clinton`s impeachment. I suspect the second is going to be Obama`s impeachment.
BEHAR: Yeah. Why? You really don`t like him, do you?
COULTER: No. I mean, he is like all these Democrats. They run as moderate, old school, I`m just a regular guy and then they get in and suddenly it`s Noam Chomsky.
BEHAR: The last time I saw you, you actually did have something about him that you liked. The last time I sat in for Larry, you said that you admired the position on Afghanistan. Is there something else that you like?
COULTER: Well, it was the whole -- it was the whole foreign policy thing because he was basically following Bush and as we found out again, you know, in the last week or so, he`s completely continuing the detention policy. Without passing a new law, we can detain possible terrorists. So I do think what he wants to do is wreck domestic policy and therefore, you know, a terrorist attack would not help that so --
BEHAR: But how is he wrecking domestic policy? He is trying to help it. Even Bernanke said that the economy is getting better since Obama is in.
COULTER: Yes, well, Bernanke is working for Obama. You cannot quote the underlings as proof that you`re doing your job.
BEHAR: Well didn`t he work for Bush, also?
COULTER: Yeah, but still.
BEHAR: They all worked for the same people. How do you feel about the health care thing he`s doing? Do you like him there?
COULTER: No, I do not.
BEHAR: I feel the public option would be something you would love. It`s not?
COULTER: No, you have not been following my continuing theories on liberal lies about health care. No, I agree with most Americans, apparently. I think it would be a disaster. What needs to be done with health care, I mean you only need -- for one thing, most Americans are happy with their health care.
BEHAR: Are you happy with your health care?
COULTER: No. This is how I would fix what I think the problems are. What you want in insurance is to insure against catastrophes. It is not to have everyone share the cost of, you know, your going to get fertility treatment or marriage counseling and that is --
BEHAR: Marriage counseling is not covered.
COULTER: Oh, it absolutely is in New Jersey. Yes it is, yes it is, yes it is. States impose these mandates.
BEHAR: How about Viagra? Viagra is covered, did you know that?
COULTER: A lot of these are state mandates which is why it`s so expensive to buy insurance in some states and very cheap in other states because state politicians, you know, they want to please the lobbyists for, you know, the podiatry lobby or the aromatherapy lobby and so they require insurance companies to cover it. When you think about it with your home insurance or with car insurance, you get that in case you get in a crash, not so everybody in the plan shares the cost of gasoline and tires. But the day to day things, you should pay for it yourself. All Congress needs to do --
BEHAR: Not everybody can, though. Not everybody can.
COULTER: It would be a lot cheaper if we weren`t paying for their restless leg syndrome.
BEHAR: Whose -- what are you talking about?
COULTER: I am talking about all of these state mandates so that you cannot buy catastrophic health care. Most of the uninsured are either illegal immigrants or they`re young, healthy people who can`t afford it because they`re paying for everybody else to have babies, to go see shrinks, to have counseling, rehab counseling.
BEHAR: That is not true.
COULTER: It is absolutely true.
BEHAR: No, I don`t believe it.
COULTER: It is absolutely true.
BEHAR: It can`t be true.
COULTER: OK, this is why you`re still a liberal. You refuse to find out facts.
BEHAR: My son-in-law works in an emergency room. He says people wait for 17 hours. They tell them come back in 17 hours. Is that right? Come on.
COULTER: No.
BEHAR: That`s not fair.
COULTER: No. That`s why we should have private hospital and public hospitals.
BEHAR: But those people who come and wait 17 hours don`t have the money to buy the health insurance. That`s the point.
All right, let`s move on from this. The health insurance gives me a headache, frankly. I mean, the whole thing now that`s going on in the country, the racist attacks on the guy.
COULTER: They are not racist attacks.
BEHAR: Really? What do you think a lion, an African -- look at this picture. "The zoo has an African and the White House has a lyin` African."
COULTER: Right.
BEHAR: I mean, that`s --
COULTER: You don`t know who put that up. There were hundreds of thousands of people there. I would recommend people go, links on my Web site to a site called I think it`s zombie.com for some of the signs at Bush rallies. And I think Bush would have preferred that one. I mean with his head chopped off, with the image of him being hung in effigy. I mean, endlessly compared to Hitler.
BEHAR: Yes, but it wasn`t about his race. They didn`t say old white boy, you are an idiot. No, we didn`t say that.
COULTER: How do you know? They didn`t say black boy is an idiot.
BEHAR: And then Glenn Beck in his infinite wisdom, he calls Obama a racist. Now what is that? That is like Lindsay Lohan called David Hasselbeck (sic) -- Hasselhoff an alcoholic. I`m sorry, Elisabeth. I didn`t mean Hasselbeck. I meant Hasselhoff. If she is watching, Elisabeth, I`m sorry.
COULTER: Which I`m sure he will be.
BEHAR: And also Glenn Beck, the thing with him is, now he`s become the face of the Republican Party.
COULTER: OK. Since you began this show with me dishing on Glenn Beck, I just want to quickly get out I love Glenn Beck.
BEHAR: Really? Do you really, really?
COULTER: Yeah.
BEHAR: Because people hate him more than they used to hate you. Are you jealous?
COULTER: A little bit jealous. And I think you get that with many conservatives attacking him but he isn`t our leader. Rush Limbaugh isn`t our leader. Michael Steele isn`t our leader. Sarah Palin isn`t our leader. I love them all. But we don`t have a leader.
A, we are a party without leaders and moreover, it`s weird, this liberal obsession with tell us who your leader is and you realize why liberals want to know is because this is they argue. They find who the leader is and destroy him from Newt Gingrich to Tom Delay to Sarah Palin.
BEHAR: What do you mean? Who destroyed Tom Delay?
COULTER: So we decided we are not going with a leader this time so you are going to have to argue with us on the facts, on the issues.
BEHAR: I don`t think that`s --
COULTER: No destroying the leader.
BEHAR: Who would be your leader?
COULTER: We don`t have a leader.
BEHAR: Joe Scarborough is now saying that the Republican Party better get their act together and stop letting Glenn Beck get away with all this hate speech because it`s making the Republican Party, the conservatives look bad. What do you think about that?
COULTER: Joe Scarborough, who is also not our leader.
BEHAR: Well he`s a conservative.
COULTER: I didn`t say he wasn`t. I said both he and Glenn Beck are not our leaders. We don`t have a leader. So stop trying to find one so you can destroy him.
BEHAR: No, but Scarborough, what he`s saying is you can`t make Glenn Beck such the face of the Republican Party. It`s not working.
COULTER: He isn`t the face. We heard this for six months at the beginning of the year because it was Rush Limbaugh.
BEHAR: Now let`s talk about Sarah because we can`t get enough of Sarah. She`s the gift that keeps on giving. First of all, she is in Hong Kong or she was.
COULTER: Right.
BEHAR: And in Hong Kong she basically was badmouthing Obama pretty badly. Now, when Obama was in Germany or Berlin last year when he was -- I think when he was running and he said, you know, the United States has made mistakes and we are not perfect. The right went berserk on the guy. Now why don`t you figure that this is a little unpatriotic for her to go to Hong Kong and badmouth the president of the United States? At the very least it`s disrespectful.
COULTER: I had heard nothing about that because it was closed to the press. It`s all leaks from --
BEHAR: OK, it`s leaks.
COULTER: OK. But what I saw was -- and I need glasses for this to do the full Charlie Gibson. What do you think of the Palin doctrine? That`s what I heard her give.
BEHAR: What?
COULTER: Exactly. Except there is a Palin doctrine. There wasn`t a Bush doctrine.
BEHAR: All right, but what is she up to? And you know, everybody says to me, would you like to have Sarah Palin on your show? And I say, yes. And they say, what would you ask her? I would like to ask her, the day that Katie Couric, maybe you could pretend that you`re Sarah. We`ll do a little role playing.
COULTER: Right.
BEHAR: The day that Katie Couric said to her, what do you read?
COULTER: Oh, I can answer that.
BEHAR: Why couldn`t she come up with an answer? The moose gazette?
COULTER: I can answer that.
BEHAR: The Alaskan news, anything.
COULTER: It`s a personal question in the sense that a lot will be read into it. I don`t like people asking me what I read, what I watch on TV, that sort of question and I`m not running for office.
Now if she says she -- all these things are going through her head. If I say "Human Events," will they say, I`m a right winger and I`m not getting the other side. If I say "The New York Times," will that sound like I`m trying to suck up to liberals and go to their cochleas? All of that is going through her head. It`s not that important a question, so she is doing the normal blow-off answer.
BEHAR: Why couldn`t she say "Time" and "Newsweek?" "Time" and "Newsweek."
COULTER: Well, that`s point one, I`m suspecting, that she didn`t want to give a specific answer and then that`s the headline, she reads "Time." Why didn`t she mention "Newsmax" or "Human Events?" She`s dissing conservatives. You know, all of that is going through your head.
BEHAR: But she came across as dumb though. She came across as dumb and somebody who didn`t read.
COULTER: I don`t think so. I think the parodies came across as dumb, but the original -- one of my friends just saw the original. We had heard about it, heard about it, heard about it. It was just replayed on some TV show, he called me up and said, that wasn`t half as bad as I thought. It wasn`t that bad.
And point two is, she is -- she is young. She`s the Internet generation. You don`t read -- nobody reads magazines or newspapers anymore. Everything everyone reads is on the Internet.
BEHAR: So, she could have said I read the blogs. That would have been a very safe answer for her. Nobody would know if it was a left blog or a right blog.
COULTER: No, they would have attacked her. Then it`s just as empty and meaningless as saying I read anything I can get my hands on.
BEHAR: Did she ever give those clothes back to the Republican Party that she snared?
COULTER: She never had them.
BEHAR: She has them, honey.
COULTER: She was wearing them on loan and by the way that leaked -- I`ve said a moment ago --
BEHAR: Everything is a leak with her. Nothing comes right out.
COULTER: From McCain because I said before when someone gets big, big, big you get a lot of jealous people around them. Well, nobody wanted to hear John McCain. Sarah Palin would show up. She got audiences bigger than Obama. She`s the draw.
BEHAR: She`s prettier. She`s prettier. That is about it.
COULTER: She`s more coherent.
BEHAR: She is not -- Ann, not for nothing, I like you. She is not coherent.
COULTER: She`s totally coherent.
BEHAR: She is not. The woman cannot construct a sentence. That`s the reason -- that`s the reason she doesn`t allow the media to come into her speeches.
COULTER: No, no, no, no.
BEHAR: Nobody understands what she is talking about.
COULTER: No, you are referring to --
BEHAR: She is like a Gadhafi.
COULTER: No. Now, that was coherent.
BEHAR: OK, Ann. Thanks very much for coming on.
COULTER: Thank you, anytime.
BEHAR: Always a pleasure to see you. Her latest best seller is "Guilty: Liberal victims and their assault on America."
Coming up next, something that`s not bothering me in the least.
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BEHAR: You know, not for nothing, but my show has been on the air for, what, like two minutes and already I`ve been called every name in the book. I`ve been called stupid, pushy, dumb, a loud mouth and a Marxist. I take exemption. I`m not a Marxist. I own property. OK. It`s in foreclosure, but still. This name calling doesn`t bother me. You think it bothers me? I`m used to it. Bill O`Reilly once called me a pinhead. Yeah, he`s mature. And a Christian columnist named Eric Rush actually called me a fatty boomblatti. Which version of the Bible does he read? The King James or the Dr. Seuss?
Let me say something to these nattering, negative nabobs. I am a mature woman capable of intelligent discourse. I love to engage in cogent debate and partake in well-informed conversation. OK? I relish the thought of sitting down with all of my adversaries.
So Glenn, Rush, Bill, I invite all of you to come on the show and discuss things like rational adults, even if you are a big bunch of doodyheads. But that`s just me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALAN ALDA, ACTOR: Good luck with the show. I think you`re going to be great. I know you`re going to be great and I know you`re going to have a big audience because I`m going to be watching.
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, ABC HOST: Joy, I`m being forced to do because they don`t think I actually know you so kick everybody`s you know what when you`re doing your show because you know you`re going to be good at it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Some people get to see movies like "The Godfather" or "Goodfellas." There are others however who actually have lived them. Joining me now is the author of the new memoir "This Family of Mine," Victoria Gotti. Hi, Victoria.
VICTORIA GOTTI, AUTHOR: How are you, Joy?
BEHAR: Why did you write this book, Victoria?
GOTTI: I actually didn`t want to for many, many years and many, many reasons. Mom, my family, we had a tough year and there were so many headlines, so many lies, so many pot shots that finally the family said, you need to do this. And if you don`t, they threatened me. They actually said they`d go to somebody else to write it with.
BEHAR: Who threatened you?
GOTTI: Mom.
BEHAR: Your mother?
GOTTI: Mom, siblings. They just said, you know what? It`s time, it`s time. And there were some news that got back to the family that a few of these people, let`s say they were close to the family were doing these tell-alls and things like that. And I think that upset them and we finally sat down and talked about it and --
BEHAR: So you wanted to set the record straight?
GOTTI: Set the record straight. I think, you know, I think the world has one misconception of the way we were brought up, the way we lived and I just felt, you know what then? Maybe they`re right. Maybe it`s just time. That`s it.
BEHAR: Well, one of the things I read that you said is that you`re not like "The Sopranos." Tell me how you`re not like "The Sopranos."
GOTTI: Well you know dad, whatever dad did in dad`s life, dad always kept separately. As far as dad was concerned, there were two lives. They never crossed over. He didn`t bring -- people once asked me, how do you feel about Sam Gravano? I never met him.
BEHAR: Sammy the bull.
GOTTI: Sammy the bull.
BEHAR: Didn`t he sing?
GOTTI: He sang.
BEHAR: Not opera either.
GOTTI: Not opera. No, not opera. But I never met him. So it was really heard for me to say. And then this person was like, what? Wasn`t he like an uncle to you? I never met him. Dad would never allow anybody from that life to come into our home, to be around us, he would never talk about certain things.
You know, where dad was concerned, you couldn`t curse in front of a woman. Men got up from the table. It was a whole different old-fashioned existence.
BEHAR: So he was more like "The Godfather" than he was like "Goodfellas" or "The Sopranos?"
GOTTI: Oh yeah, yeah. He was very, very, very classy, very charismatic. Very, you know, this Tony Soprano character, I remember when it first came out and people would say -- well, somebody once made a joke and they likened that character to my ex-husband. And I thought all right, now that`s close but dad, never happened.
BEHAR: Even though, you know, your father was convicted of racketeering, 13 murders, illegal gambling, extortion, tax evasion and loan sharking.
GOTTI: I meant personality wise.
BEHAR: So separate from all that --
GOTTI: Separate from all that.
BEHAR: He was a gentleman.
GOTTI: Totally different guy. Totally different guy. Very low key. As I said, you could never talk about that stuff. Not in front of women.
BEHAR: My father was like that. He drove a truck and he fought the Nazis. He pulled his own teeth out, but you couldn`t say the "F" word in front of him.
GOTTI: It`s the truth.
BEHAR: It`s weird.
GOTTI: They are.
BEHAR: You said something in your book, you said Brooklyn, especially downtown Brooklyn was considered mafia territory. If you were Italian and lived there, it was presumed that you were in the life. Now I lived in Brooklyn. I never heard this.
GOTTI: Well you know what, it is not something that Italian people or Italian descent will say but if you ever tell anybody you`re from Brooklyn. For instance, riding off the Belt Parkway leaving Brooklyn entering into Queens, you ever see the sign lately? Sign says you are now leaving Brooklyn. Forget about it.
BEHAR: Yeah, it was supposed to be funny.
GOTTI: Nah, I don`t think it`s that funny but you know what? Back in the day, even now, you say Brooklyn, it`s right away assumed that you are and if you`re Italian, you belong to the mob.
BEHAR: Gee, I never. Well, you know, my aunt Julie says that your family makes Italians look bad. How do you respond to that?
GOTTI: You know what? It depends on -- there are the Italians, there are the Italians. Some of the Italians that feel they`ve come to this country. They`re anti-anti-that lifestyle. Then there are those that feel this was their brotherhood. This was their life, their whatever.
They`re going to fight it out from now until the days turn to stone. This is how it is. It is like the Knights of Columbus versus the Italian- American League. It is what it is.
BEHAR: I read your book and I know that your father had a tough time as a kid. But my grandfather did, too. And they asked my grandfather to be a made man as they say in the mob and he refused. I mean, your father did not refuse.
GOTTI: Did not refuse. These are the guys that he saw growing up that he wanted to emulate. I`m not saying it is the right choice, it was the right choice. It was his choice. I can`t speak for him. It was his choice.
BEHAR: OK, we`ll be back with more from Victoria Gotti in just a bit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Victoria Gotti. And we`re talking about her new memoir, "This Family of Mine." OK, let`s talk about your mother and your family a little bit. According to what you wrote, you didn`t have any clue that your father was in the mob.
GOTTI: Not until the `80s.
BEHAR: I don`t know how old you are but I`m assuming you were somewhat of a grown-up at that time.
GOTTI: Yeah, early 20s.
BEHAR: And you also say that your mother didn`t seem to know anything, either. People find that hard to believe.
GOTTI: She knew. No, she knew what his life was, as most women that were married to those type of men did. But she never, again, would question what he did. She wouldn`t, you know, he walked in the door at night. She didn`t say, hey, where were you tonight? What did you do?
BEHAR: Was she scared to ask him?
GOTTI: No, she was feisty.
BEHAR: She was quite the -- quite a --
GOTTI: She was feisty. She wasn`t by no means a shrinking violet. But she knew her place, too. Women, this was a whole different type of society than we are today. It just wasn`t the way it is today. Today we would be like, you know, hey, what do you mean? What`s this? It wasn`t like that back then. Your husband provided. You knew he did. That was it, you accepted it.
BEHAR: See, I had the opposite experience. It`s so interest. My mother ruled the roost. It`s great.
GOTTI: It happens that way, too. And it is great.
BEHAR: Yes, I like that better. It`s better.
GOTTI: I think you`re right.
BEHAR: Now a neighbor of yours mysteriously disappeared after your little brother was run over by his, they think his car, right?
GOTTI: Right.
BEHAR: Now do you think your father was involved in that murder?
GOTTI: I thought for a lot of years.
BEHAR: Or his disappearance, let`s say?
GOTTI: Disappearance. I thought for a lot of years, yes. But as I say in the book, dad was the only one out of all of us that disbelieved -- he believed it was an accident, whereas I for one didn`t.
BEHAR: You think they --
GOTTI: I thought it was deliberate. But the man was a neighborhood drinker. The neighbors had all, you know, it was like dad didn`t want to hear it. But it was like the neighbors came and told all of us, they were there at the scene, they said -- the police all saw in the report and said he dragged my brother for over 200 something feet, didn`t know that this boy was under the wheels of his car.
You know, he got out of the car and started to yell and scream. Who the hell`s kid is this anyway? What the F was he doing in the street and blah blah blah?
BEHAR: Didn`t he know your father was living on that block?
GOTTI: It was a few blocks away when it happened. When he found out it was John Gotti`s son, all of a sudden, it was like, oh my god, I`m having chest pains. Where`s the ambulance?
BEHAR: Well sure, wouldn`t you have chest pains if you found out it was John Gotti`s son?
GOTTI: I wouldn`t have reacted that way to begin with. I wouldn`t have reacted that way to begin in. I think I would have just been in a state of shock to hit a boy, period.
BEHAR: Didn`t your mother hit the car with a baseball bat? She was ticked off.
GOTTI: She was a grieving mother. I love people --
BEHAR: She was enraged.
GOTTI: I love people that sit back and say, well you know, your father this, your mother that. Listen, these are parents that lost -- they buried their 12-year-old son. I love people that are so quick to judge and sit back and say, well what do you think happened to this guy? We`re talking about a father that`s just buried his favorite son, the apple of his eye, a mother that can`t quite come to grips, terms with the fact that her son`s never coming home.
And people act like oh my god, did your mother actually go around the corner with a baseball bat? She saw the car in the driveway every day with the blood of her son on it. Hello. I would have done worse.
BEHAR: How do you remember your father today, Vicki?
GOTTI: I remember him as being very -- he was just very witty, very caring. He was my best friend.
BEHAR: He was?
GOTTI: People say to me, why isn`t this a daddy dearest book? I`m sorry, I can`t give it to you because it wasn`t. It is what it is.
BEHAR: OK, thanks, Vicki.
GOTTI: Thank you.
BEHAR: Our thanks to Victoria Gotti and the rest of my guests for joining me tonight. And of course, thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
