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Rio in 2016; More Troops to Afghanistan?; Al Qaeda Losing Steam?

Aired October 02, 2009 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: We are moving into the next hour on the CNN NEWSROOM, and it's the thrill of victory.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rio de Janeiro.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: But along with that, of course, comes the agony of defeat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACQUES ROGGE, PRESIDENT, IOC: The city of Chicago, having obtained the least number of votes, will not participate in the next round.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: That's right, the Second City comes in fourth in a four-city race to host the 2016 summer Olympics. But Rio, the City of Carnival, is on top of the world right now.

Brazil's charismatic president had lobbied hard for the first games ever to be held in South America, but another charismatic president lobbied just as hard for Chicago. So, what went wrong?

Our Ali Velshi is in Daley Plaza. Ed Henry is in Copenhagen.

Ali, let's go ahead and start with you.

Has the shock worn off?

ALI VELSHI, CNN SR. BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Unbelievable. The feeling around here, you saw it on TV, people were in disbelief. They thought it would -- not that Rio won. There were a lot of people that thought Rio's bid was good, and there were a lot of larger political and economic reasons why Rio might get this deal.

What they were surprised at is how quickly Chicago was eliminated. But that first round of voting is as much political as it is anything else. People vote in blocks in any cases. Chicago didn't have the votes to do it, even though Chicagoans thinks that their bid was technically very strong, very organized, and very promising. The bottom line is they didn't get it. And as you can see behind me, they've cleared out and they're moving on with their weekend plans, which is going to involve a little less celebrating and partying than they planned.

PHILLIPS: Well, Ed Henry, you saw the pitches right there in Copenhagen. What do you think went wrong? You were saying that the president and the first lady got up there with pretty heartfelt stories about why they thought the Olympics should be in his hometown.

ED HENRY, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They did, and maybe the personal appeal just frankly didn't work. I mean, the first lady had a very emotional speech, talked about growing up in Chicago, talked about her late father getting multiple sclerosis and yet, still teaching her sports, et cetera.

And maybe that personal appeal just didn't work. Maybe the IOC members wanted to hear more about the logistics, the specifics, the nuts and bolts of whether Chicago could really pull something of this magnitude off.

Certainly in recent days, we have seen the violence in Chicago. Perhaps that was an issue, especially among young people. Were people concerned about that?

We're waiting for these IOC members to come out. They're starting to have some of these press conferences where we'll get that.

We're also getting the first reaction from Robert Gibbs aboard Air Force One. He's basically just said that the president is reacting and saying he's disappointed, but is not sorry that he made this trip, that he wanted to do this for Chicago, and he gave it his best shot -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Ali Velshi, can Chicago gain in any way, shape or form from the money they put into this pitch, to where it goes forward? I mean, the whole world knows about Chicago now.

VELSHI: Yes. Yes. Look, I'll tell you two things.

One is, I just want to say, in response to what Ed said, there may be more to due with the fact that the International Olympics Committee, by taking the games to a city, can do more for that city that it can gain from its infrastructure. In that case, Rio has more to gain from the Olympics than Chicago would have.

The amount of infrastructure that Chicago would have built was proportionately smaller. But absolutely, Kyra, this is a first-rate city, but it's a big tourist destination for Americans, not as big as L.A. or New York, or people from outside the United States.

Now everybody knows about these fantastic things that Chicago has to offer. I think, absolutely, by putting forward a strong bid like this, Chicago gets put on a pedestal.

There was nothing that was technically wrong with the bid where they could say this city was disorganized and didn't make sense. It didn't win because there were other competitors, one of which may have been substantially stronger for economic or political reasons, or technical reasons. Chicago, I think, ultimately does win out of this, despite the fact that they didn't get the Olympics.

PHILLIPS: Ali Velshi, Ed Henry, thanks so much, guys.

And coming up a little later in the hour, we're going to hear from Illinois' governor, Pat Quinn. He responds to what the news brought today to his state.

Now, Afghanistan shadows President Obama even in Denmark. He met with General Stanley McChrystal, the top commander in Afghanistan, for nearly a half hour aboard Air Force One in Copenhagen. The General is pushing forward in Afghanistan. He wants up to 40,000 more troops. The president has to decide not only the number of boots on the ground, but also how they can best kick the enemy's behind.

In just a minute, we're going to ask an expert why he thinks al Qaeda is losing steam in Afghanistan and how that should affect the president's war strategy.

Right now, let's hear from Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Secrecy has surrounded the high-stakes White House deliberations about Afghanistan. But key military players are now putting their cards on the table.

GEN. STANLEY MCCHRYSTAL, COMMANDER, U.S. FORCES, AFGHANISTAN: We need to reverse the current trends, and time does matter. Waiting does not prolong a favorable outcome. This effort will not remain winnable indefinitely. Public support will not last indefinitely.

STARR: In London, General Stanley McChrystal laid out his urgent case that it is troops on the ground that are a must to fight the insurgents.

MCCHRYSTAL: A strategy that does not leave Afghanistan in a stable position is probably a short-sighted strategy.

STARR: Vice President Joe Biden wasn't mentioned, but Biden and National Security Council adviser Jim Jones are said to be calling for a more limited effort, going just after al Qaeda, using fewer troops on the ground.

In Washington, McChrystal's boss, General David Petraeus, was asked, "What if the president decided to use drones or a small number of Special Forces on the ground?" He pointedly failed to endorse the idea. By all accounts, Petraeus and Admiral Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, are backing McChrystal. But what side is Defense Secretary Robert Gates on? A senior Pentagon official tells CNN Gates is becoming more comfortable with the notion a significant number of additional combat forces will be sent. It just may not be the entire 40,000 the military believes are needed.

But Gates' bottom line?

ROBERT GATES, DEFENSE SECRETARY: The reality is, failure in Afghanistan would be a huge setback for the United States.

STARR (on camera): Now that everyone has begun to lay out their positions, the next step? To begin to make some decisions. Even General McChrystal says it's important to take the time to get it right, just not to take forever.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: All right. Let's talk more about this with Richard Barrett. He advises the U.N. on the threat of al Qaeda and the Taliban.

So, as we just heard, Richard, at least one White House camp thinks the U.S. should basically spot-eliminate al Qaeda. But you claim al Qaeda is losing support there and it isn't what it used to be.

So, tell me, is it a mistake to go in after them?

RICHARD BARRETT, U.N. AL QAEDA/TALIBAN MONITORING TEAM: Well, the campaign of course has been very successful so far in driving al Qaeda out of Afghanistan, and one certainly wouldn't want them to come back. And I guess it has to be a military determination as to whether you need more troops to keep the Taliban at bay.

But then the next question is, what if the Taliban did manage to come back? Would they bring al Qaeda with them? And I think that, of course, is a difficult question to answer but one that certainly has to be asked.

PHILLIPS: So, if al Qaeda is becoming weaker, do we really need to sends in more troops? Or is there this idea that, OK, send in more troops, just shock and awe them, the rest of al Qaeda, whatever is left there, and move forward?

BARRETT: Well, I think the Taliban -- obviously the Taliban want to regain power in Afghanistan. I think they have made it as clear as they can that they don't have ambitions beyond Afghanistan. You can say, well, should we believe them or not? But they have made that very clear.

And I think we all agree that were it not for the attacks of 9/11, and had the Taliban handed over Osama bin Laden after the attacks in east Africa in 1998, as they were asked to do, then they would probably still be in power in Kabul, and they would probably make that calculation, too, that a close association with al Qaeda has not been in their best interest. Well, there will be some sort of solidarity and some sort of familiarity over the many, many years they have fought together, but I think that we can't necessarily say that if the Taliban were back, controlling chunks of Afghanistan, al Qaeda would immediately follow in, recreate that basis there and start mounting attacks against other countries.

PHILLIPS: OK. Well, let me go back to what you just said then. Do you think that the Taliban basically feels like they gambled and lost with al Qaeda, the fact that, OK, we'll work with you, we'll protect Osama bin Laden? But look what's happened to their country. Look what's still happening to their country.

Do you think they're building up I guess an animosity against al Qaeda and are thinking, hmm, maybe these aren't the best guys to be in cahoots with, maybe we ought to work with the U.S.?

BARRETT: Well, you know, that, I think, is the objective, to build a gap between al Qaeda and the Taliban, the Afghan Taliban. And the Afghan Taliban are not a sort of monolithic entity, anyway. They comprise lots of different commanders who sort of share an objective of clearing the place of foreign forces, of bringing down the Karzai government and establishing their own areas of power.

So, they're sort of -- but anyway, beyond that, there are divisions among them. And I think that what we want to do is to try and increase the divisions, not only to weaken the Taliban, but between the Taliban and al Qaeda, so that the Taliban do not see al Qaeda, a close association with al Qaeda as being in their interest. I think that's a prime objective for us all.

PHILLIPS: Richard Barrett, good to talk to you. Appreciate it.

BARRETT: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: So, you think maybe Sarah Palin's going to joke about it -- sex, extortion, David Letterman? Wow. Put it this way -- I'm going to be watching late night tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Death and destruction on a massive scale, and the scope only gets worse. The death toll from this week's earthquakes and tsunami in the South Pacific and Southeast Asia is soaring, and they're still hoping they'll find survivors.

In Indonesia, the quake toll is at least 1,100. And it could climb into the thousands.

In the Samoan islands and Tonga, they're starting to bury the dead from the tsunami. At least 168 confirmed dead. The damage is overwhelming.

And in the Philippines, they're fearing the worst as Typhoon Parma moves closer. It's the second major storm there in just over a week. The first one unleashed massive flooding, killing hundreds of people.

CNN has reporters all across the quake zone in Indonesia. Here's some of that devastation that they're seeing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Where we are standing, there literally used to be three villages, but 90 percent of their residents are dead, killed in a landslide that was caused by the earthquake. You can still smell the stench of dead bodies here because, according to local officials, at least 200 to 300 people are believed to be buried underneath this thick mud beneath our feet.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm here at the Amachang (ph) hotel in central Padang, where a frantic search and rescue operation is now under way. A team from Switzerland is here with sniffer dogs, and they're going through the massive rubble behind me.

Now, what they've heard is that there is a group of up to eight people who are trapped inside who have been sending text messages to their families saying they're in there and that they can't get out. We've been hearing from one survivor who got out just after the earthquake, a couple of hours afterward, and he was basically saying inside, there is this sort of labyrinth of passageways and dead ends. It's very dark and suffocating. He spent hours crawling around in the dark, really unable to breathe, trying find a way out, and finally got his way out.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Dan Rivers and Arwa Damon reporting for us there.

Now, in American Samoa, their stories will just break your heart. Young children ripped from their parents' arms when Tuesday's tsunami swept ashore.

Here's CNN's Ted Rowlands.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't believe she's gone. She's only 6 years old.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Vaedressa Fitiau (ph) and her mother were trying to make it home when they were both swept away by the tsunami.

I held her hand. The wave got us. And then I was trapped between two cars. That's when her hand just -- her hand just left mine. And I could hear her say, "Mom, please." And then I saw her floating away. And I knew right there that she was gone. She was taken from us.

ROWLANDS: Vaedressa's (ph) body was found the next day in some trees not far from the point where she and her mother were separated.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When they found her, she still had her backpack on from school.

ROWLANDS: The village of Leone has been hit extremely hard by the tsunami. Sutau Sutau (ph) lost his mother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It happened so fast and, and so I'm so sorry. I miss my mom. She was a great woman.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he was last seen?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the main route.

ROWLANDS: On Thursday, a team from Hawaii's National Guard helped villagers search for a 6-year-old boy who is still missing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it is important because our loved ones we have to bury next to our -- in front of our houses.

ROWLANDS: Vaedressa's (ph) parents say they plan to bury their daughter here in their front yard.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We miss her.

ROWLANDS: Ted Rowlands, CNN, Leone, American Samoa.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And if you would like to help victims of the tsunami and quakes, go to "Impact Your World" homepage on CNN.com. You'll find a list of links to aid groups including the Red Cross and World Vision. That's CNN.com/impact.

Top stories now.

Blame it on Rio, as in Rio de Janeiro. Brazil's second largest city beat out Chicago, Tokyo and Madrid in the quest to host the 2016 Olympic games. Rio won despite an unprecedented push for Chicago by President Obama himself.

The Israeli government wanted this video so badly that they handed over 19 prisoners just for a copy. It apparently shows Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit, who was captured three years ago by Palestinian militants.

A U.S. military victory in Iraq not happening anytime soon, according to the top American commander there. Despite his assessment, General Ray Odierno wants a quicker withdrawal of U.S. troops before the August, 2010, target date set by President Obama. It wasn't easy, but a blue ribbon panel has whittled the list of CNN heroes for 2009 hero down to 10. The hero of the year is announced Thanksgiving night.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER (voice-over): This is "CNN Heroes."

JOHN LEGEND, MUSICIAN: Hello. I'm John Legend.

During last year's CNN Heroes and all-star tribute, I had the honor of performing and helping to recognize the great works of everyday citizens changing the world. As founder of the Show Me Campaign, which seeks an end to global poverty, I am thrilled to be able to help CNN introduce one of this year's top 10 honorees.

Now, more than ever, the world needs heroes.

DOC HENDLEY, WINE TO WATER FOUNDER: Approximately one billion people lack access to clean water. It's killing more children than AIDS and malaria combined. And yet, all that can be prevented.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here you go, sir.

HENDLEY: Regulars, especially, sit on the same stool, they pay the same tab every day. I felt they really did want to be a part of something.

My name is Doc Hendley. I used to be a bartender, and now I provide clean water to people in need.

I got on the ground in Darfur seeing these people living in conflicts, yet their biggest concern was the huge loss of life because of the unclean water. That's when water changed to the burden of my life.

Whether we're filtering water or drilling a well, we want to train and educate people that are already on the ground, enabling locals to fix their own water needs. (BEGIN GRAPHIC)

Since 2004, Doc's organization has brought sustainable clean water to more than 25,000 individuals in five countries.

(END GRAPHIC)

HENDLEY: That joy is the only thing that helps lift the burden. You can be just a regular anybody, and you really, really can change the world. I'm walking truth of that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And you can go to CNN.com/Heroes to vote for your favorites. All will be honored at an all-star tribute hosted by Anderson Cooper Thanksgiving night, only on CNN. David Letterman blackmailed, but not biting his tongue. The comedian airs his dirty laundry -- sex with staffers, a $2 million extortion scheme. This sure isn't primetime viewing, folks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: David Letterman is no stranger to scandal, so it's tough to make his viewers stop and say, whoa. But that's happened last night when the comedian confessed to sex with staffers and revealed an alleged $2 million blackmail plot.

This is the suspect, Joe Halderman. He is a long-time producer for CBS, Letterman's own network. We're going to have more on him in just a moment.

But first, Alina Cho shows us how Letterman told the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It started out like it has for nearly three decades...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the "Late Show with David Letterman."

CHO: ... late-night laughs.

DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST, "LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN": It's so bright and sunny, the skunks were coming out of the subway squinting.

CHO: But after the monologue, it quickly turned serious. The audience stunned.

LETTERMAN: This whole thing has been quite scary.

CHO: When David Letterman revealed he is the victim of an alleged extortion attempt.

LETTERMAN: This morning I did something I've never done in my life. I had to go downtown to testify before the grand jury.

CHO: Letterman said he received a package three weeks ago from a person who claimed to have information about his sex life. And he wanted $2 million. Pay up or he goes public.

LETTERMAN: I get to looking through it, and there's a letter in the package. And it says that I know that you do some terrible, terrible things. And I can prove that you do these terrible things. And sure enough contained in the package was stuff to prove that I do terrible things.

CHO: The 62-year-old host went to the Manhattan district attorney's office which began an investigation. Letterman said he set up several meetings with a man who he said wanted to turn his life off stage into a screenplay, possibly a book, and gave him a fake check for $2 million. On Thursday, an arrest, then another bombshell. LETTERMAN: And I had to tell them all of the creepy things that I have done that were going to be -- well, now, why is that funny? That's, I mean...

CHO: The admission right from the host, right from his desk.

LETTERMAN: The creepy stuff was that I have had sex with women who work for me on this show.

CHO: He tried to break the tension by taking shots at his favorite target, himself.

LETTERMAN: And would it be embarrassing if it were made public? Perhaps it would. Perhaps it would. Especially for the women.

CHO: It is not known when the sexual encounters with staffers took place. Letterman married longtime partner Regina Lasko in March. The couple has been together since 1986, and they have a 6-year-old son, Harry.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHO: CBS News is reporting that the suspect has been identified as 51-year-old Joel Halderman, a longtime producer at CBS News. As for Letterman, this stunning admission comes at a time of great success in his career. After lagging behind Jay Leno for years, Letterman now consistently beats Conan O'Brien in the ratings. As for his future, Letterman says he hopes to protect his job. CBS so far isn't commenting.

Alina Cho, CNN, New York.

PHILLIPS: Letterman tried to make light of the plot, but it's no joke for suspect Robert Joe Halderman. He's due in a New York court, and he's going to be arraigned any minute now. Susan Candiotti tells us what's next for him.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The suspect in this case, Robert Joel Halderman, who goes by the name Joe, worked at CBS News for more than 20 years and has won an Emmy for his work.

The prosecutor in this case, the district attorney from here in New York, says that the crime went down between September 9th and 30th of this year, and that in fact Halderman had tried to blackmail David Letterman by submitting what he called a screenplay treatment, saying that he needed a large chunk of money and referring to Letterman's "loving son" as well.

The prosecutor said that his office worked with David Letterman's lawyer in arranging meetings, and that two of the three meetings were reported, so they say they have that evidence as well against Mr. Halderman. He is appearing in court to face arraignment on these charges of attempted larceny, and if convicted, he could spend up to 30 years in prison.

Susan Candiotti, CNN, New York. PHILLIPS: A state of calamity now in place in the Philippines. That's right, calamity. That country bracing for its second major storm in a week. Chad Myers is tracking Typhoon Parma. So, Chad, how's it looking?

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: When you hear the term "war profiters," do you think of the duly elected people atop Capitol Hill? Some say there isn't much of a difference when it comes to wartime earmarks. CNN senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd like to present each of you with a...

DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Utah National Guardsmen returning from risky deployments receive a gesture of appreciation. A video scrapbook about their battalion and tour of duty.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's your story told your way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: It's produced by a business in Utah called StoryRock. Utah's senator, Robert Bennett, wants to help his home state company take this nationwide. So he's secured a $5 million earmark in the defense spending bill. And get this. It's coming from the fund that's supposed to pay for basic needs for troops at war. Like food, fuel, and ammunition.

We found Senator Bennett and asked him why he's taking money from wartime operations funding.

(On camera): Why is it important to make what is essentially scrapbooks for members of the National Guard?

SEN. ROBERT BENNETT (R), UTAH: It's been proven to be a very strong retention tool, recruitment tool. The military spends a lot of money to try to get people to re-enlist. We're frankly saving them some money.

BASH (voice-over): Bennett is unapologetic, and hardly the only senator using this budget to bring home the bacon. We counted 59 earmarks from both Republicans and Democrats totaling nearly $172 million. In the fund slated to pay for troops' essential needs.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: This is the life blood of our military.

BASH: Anti-earmark crusaders like John McCain call it an outrage. And the Pentagon which didn't ask for the pet projects doesn't like it either. GEOFF MORRELL, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: Every dollar that we are forced to spend on things which we do not need requires us to take money from things which we do need. And the people who lose in that trade-off are our troops and the taxpayers.

BASH: The Pentagon did not request cold weather gloves for troops in Afghanistan. But Delaware's Tom Carper got $5 million for one company, W.L. Gore, GORE-TEX, which has 640 employees in his state.

SEN. TOM CARPER (D), DELAWARE: You know, special forces fighting in very difficult conditions in the winters in the mountains in Afghanistan, I want to make sure they have what they need to be safe.

BASH: Carper admits his earmark will help folks back home. But says it helps troops, too. That's what Olympia Snowe says. She's sending $20 million home to Maine to fix Humvees.

(On camera): Is this something that the Pentagon specifically asked for?

SEN. OLYMPIA SNOWE (R), MAINE: You know, I don't know. But, you know, we-- it's not only the Pentagon's decisions. It's -- there are several branches of government. Legislative branches. One of the three. And I think it's -- it's a mutual decision making process.

BASH (voice-over): In fact, all the senators we talked to with pork projects had one common defense.

BENNETT: Congress has the power of the purse.

BASH: It's their job.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Again, that was our Dana Bash.

It's lights, camera, action. But the faces of this newscast are not seasoned journalists. No scripts, no holding back, and no homes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Stunner on the Olympic stage. Chicago's hopes for hosting the 2016 Olympics dashed in Copenhagen just a short time ago. The city lost in the first round of voting by the IOC, but the folks in Rio will sure be dancing the night away. Their city beat Chicago, Tokyo and Madrid. The games in Rio will be the first Olympics in South America.

Derrion Albert, the Chicago high school honor student whose brutal beating death was captured on videotape will be buried tomorrow. Meanwhile, President Obama plans to send his attorney general and Education Secretary to Chicago next week to talk about school violence.

And remember that Facebook poll asking whether President Obama should be assassinated? It was apparently the work of a child. Secret Service tracked down the juvie and the parent. After a meeting, the agency determined there was no intent to harm the president, so no charges were filed.

Issue number one, it's all about jobs today. For most people, this is really what the recession boils down to, so they're going to probably cringe when they take a look at the latest jobs report. The unemployment rate kicked up to 9.8 percent. That's a 26-year high, and more than a quarter of a million people lost their jobs last month.

Susan Lisovicz is at the New York Stock Exchange. You know, Susan, go ahead and break those numbers down for us and tell us what it means -- to us.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is the reason why, Kyra, quite simply, people are calling this the Great Recession. The number of job cuts that we have seen since the U.S. economy officially was classified as in recession December 2007: 7.6 million. 7.6 million people.

What we have been happy to report about since early this year is that the pace of job cuts have been slowing. But that did not happen in September, it came in much higher than expected. 263,000 jobs lost in a single month. The usual culprits: manufacturing, the services sector, construction. A lot in government, as you see.

The red ink that we're seeing is communities across the country, state and local communities, lots of job cuts there. So, where we've seen growth, health care and education has not been able to offset all the losses elsewhere.

Something else of note to talk about, Kyra. How difficult it is to get a job. Right now, the average amount of time people are out of work, six months. We have not seen that since the Labor Department started keeping records in the 1940s. Why is this important?

Well, of course the toll on a family is just incalculable. We see it in all aspects of the economy, whether it's personal bankruptcies, which have been rising, foreclosures, which have been at record levels. And, of course, consumer spending. We're going to shortly go into the holidays, and there's a reason why retailers are very nervous about it. Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, the Fed chief and many others say the recession is probably over, and there's also talk the economy is actually growing now. So, why aren't companies starting to hire and take a risk?

LISOVICZ: Well, because it's too much of a risk, Kyra. It's a fair question indeed. But, you know, we'll go back to the hospital metaphor. You know, the patient may be off the respirator, but still not out of ICU.

Just yesterday afternoon, you and I were talking about auto sales, which were down so dramatically in September from August. Why is that? Cash for Clunkers expired. So, we have seen the effects of the stimulus that's driving the economy. But typically this is why employment is a lagging indicator, one of the last things that improves in a recession, and employers don't want to take that risks.

And some of the signs that we see that employment will continue to remain sluggish, at the very best, is this: temporary workers, we saw losses there. And typically, an employer will hire temporary workers before they commit to permanent workers. And we saw the workweek fall to a record low. Thirty-three hours.

So, it's still tough sledding out there. That is to be expected, it gives me no pleasure talking about it, but it is to be expected when you have a recession like this, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Susan. Well, we have got good/bad news, a little bit of everything.

All right. Well, if you were the widow of Steve McNair, you might tell them where they can stick their late fees and pet damages. You just won't believe what she's being billed for now. Insult to injury times 2,000.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: I tell you what. Talk about another slap in the face for Michelle McNair. OK, her football player husband shot to death by his young mistress in the condo that he had purchased for her. Tough stuff for the wife to take, right?

And now she might be on the hook for back rent on the mistress's condo. The management company has filed a claim against McNair's estate, almost $2,000 worth of rent, late fees and pet damage. Are you serious? Michelle McNair is contesting the claim. Sure hope she would, since her husband's name was not on the lease.

As always, Team Sanchez back there working hard on the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM. Does that story just tick you off?

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Well, but at the same time, you know, if I passed away, my debt is my wife's debt, and my wife's debt is my debt. We're like one. That's the way it works, right?

PHILLIPS: Yeah, but c'mon. The mistress's condo?

SANCHEZ: Ah. Maybe he shouldn't have had a mistress. And maybe he shouldn't have bought her a condo.

PHILLIPS: There's a lot of things he shouldn't have done. But this poor women has been through enough.

SANCHEZ: I know. You're right. Look, he was the -- let's not talk about that anymore.

PHILLIPS: Yes. We could really get going on this. Then you and I will be in a big debate, we'll tick a lot of people off and get a lot of e-mails...

SANCHEZ: Yeah...

PHILLIPS: ... called in by our bosses, and then we'll have a really bad weekend.

SANCHEZ: Wow, what happened there?

PHILLIPS: Yes, you're out of focus.

SANCHEZ: Chris, Chris, Chris. Get over here really quick. Look at this, look what just happened to us.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: I'm like in some...

PHILLIPS: Maybe it was your mistress who fogged you out because you're not going to pay for the condo.

SANCHEZ: That is bizarre.

Hey, listen, we're going to stand by on the David Letterman thing. But not the way everybody else has been doing it.

We're going to come at it from a different angle. We have got Penelope Trunk on, and we've got Ashleigh Banfield on. Two women who are probably going to come at this from completely different perspectives.

Just -- in case you don't know who Penelope Trump is, Penelope Trunk is the woman who was on the air with me the other day explaining to our audience that she's perfectly fine with talking freely about the fact that she's anticipating her abortion. That all women should just have abortions, that she had a miscarriage recently. And she explains how she had it.

She talks specifically about situations in the workplace. We want to talk about, is it just David Letterman? How often does this happen? Is it a big deal that e was messing around with people that he worked? Was he married at the time? What's his responsibility? What his legal liability? Who's the guy who turned him in? There's a lot to this story aside from the surface and that's where we're going, right underneath that surface there, kiddo.

PHILLIPS: I'm sorry. I can't see you.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Chris, look at this! She's all fuzzy faced.

PHILLIPS: That's what happens when you ---yes. You know what? We can talk about your focus in about two seconds. See you there. Focus-face.

Statistically speaking, takeoffs and landings are the riskiest parts of your flights, so pilots are supposed to zip it. No chitchat, only essential interaction allowed. Not surprisingly, the rule gets broken. But what is surprising is that investigators have found is just how dangerous cockpit chatter can be. Here's CNN's Jeanne Meserve.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Minutes before a 2004 plane crash in Kirksville, Missouri that killed 13 people, a joking pilot says, "Love to poke my head back around and say that, you know, ladies and gentlemen, we've thought about it." A laughing co-pilot chimes in, "It was unanimous up here." The pilot continues, "We've come to the conclusion that you people should all shut the blank up."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's really sad to listen to a cockpit voice recorder where the pilots are sitting there, laughing, carrying on, having a great time, not aware they're about to run into the ground.

MESERVE: After 24 years as a commercial pilot, Robert Sumwalt is now a member of the National Transportation Safety board. He believes the sterile cockpit rule, which bans nonessential talk during taxiing, takeoff, and landing, is frequently violated. And for safety's sake, he says that must change.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think people need to draw a line in the sand and says, this is a regulation, we will adhere to it.

MESERVE: The NTSB has cited violations of the sterile cockpit rule in six crashes since 2004, according to a survey by "USA Today."

In Lexington, Kentucky, in 2006, chatting cockpit crew took off on the wrong runway -- 49 were killed. In Jefferson City, Missouri in 2004, the pilot and copilot were laughing about alcohol minutes before impact. They both died. Investigators are also looking at whether cockpit small talk contributed to the 2009 Colgan Air crash in buffalo, New York.

The Airline Pilots' Association believes pilots usually do adhere to the sterile cockpit rule, but says to improve compliance, there should be more training and more observation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But a properly trained airline pilot sits in the jump seat and observes his or her fellow airline pilots and has the ability to comment, to question.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE: In that situation, however, a pilot might be careful not to break the rules. A more realistic way to get a sense of the problem might be to pull cockpit voice recorders and listen to conversations. But people on all sides of this debate say that is a nonstarter.

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.

PHILLIPS: Getting news on the air isn't always easy. Just ask the crew of this Minnesota TV show. They're talented, they're professional, oh and by the way, they also happen to be homeless.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: So, what does it take to get a TV show on the air? Tons of talent but not necessarily a place to go home to. Just ask the homeless crew of St. Paul, Minnesota's "Voices of Change," That's right. I said homeless. CNN's all-platform journalist Chris Welch takes up behind the scenes.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS WELCH, CNN ALL-PLATFORM CORRESPONDENT(voice-over): This cable access TV show may have the look and feel of a typical local program, but one thing is very different.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) It's a service that provides free voicemail service to low-income and homeless individuals.

WELCH: "Voices for Change" is a show produced and presented by people who are or have been homeless. Among them, this man. Show director Ron Kennebrew (ph).

(off camera): Tell me where you were, say, a few years ago?

RON KENEBREW (ph), SHOW DIRECTOR, VOICES FOR CHANGE: I was in prison.

WELCH (voice-over): But when he got out, he moved to Minnesota to start a new life. Easier said than done.

(off camera): Did you end up homeless?

KENEBREW: Yes. Last year, I stayed a few days in a motel, and my little pocket money was exhausted, and so I found myself homeless, but not without hope.

WELCH (voice-over): He was homeless for months and in a Minnesota winter. He would sometimes ride the city buses all night just to keep warm. He still spends most of the nights in a shelter, but these days, Ron Kenebrew says he's on a better path.

KENEBREW: To do something positive with my life with what I have left.

WELCH: Which is exactly what led him and others in his position to the studios of the St. Paul neighborhood network.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Phil is in the shot right now.

WELCH: They're part of a program created by Pastor Luis Alvarenga, a former TV and radio reporter from El Salvador, now with St. Paul's First Lutheran Church. He provides hands-on training and ideally, a skill they can use to improve their life situation.

LUIS ALVARENGA, PASTOR: Eventually have a future, a job, a sense of belonging. A sense of worth. KENEBREW: I could learn how to be a cameraman, and how to edit and how to operate the control room.

WELCH (on camera): I spent a few days with these guys now, and the studios they work in are just as professional as just about any studio you may have ever seen. And what we have in here is the control room, which just like in other studio situations, is the nerve center.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your audio's good...

WELCH (voice-over): It's where you will usually find Kenebrew. What he's learned here may be the beginnings of a new career path. He's already producing freelance videos for a small paycheck. This one featured on the station's YouTube channel.

KENEBREW: This is giving birth to an idea that I would want to reach out and aspire to be a cinematographer.

WELCH (off camera): Does the fact that this centers on homeless issues make it more rewarding in some way?

KENEBREW: Yes, it does, because I came out of that community. I'm wanting to make a success story out of a situation of despair.

Cut!

WELCH (voice-over): Whatever your definition of success, this is at least one step in the right direction.

In St. Paul, Minnesota, Chris Welch, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: What a fantastic program.

Have a great weekend, everyone. We'll see you back here on Monday. Rick Sanchez picks it up from here.