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Nancy Grace
Tot Mom Casey Anthony`s New Defense; Caylee Anthony Murder Evidence Contaminated at Testing Lab
Aired October 02, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news in the case of 2-year-old Florida girl Caylee Anthony. In the last hours, Casey Anthony`s lawyers taking to the airwaves, blasting newly released state`s evidence, their defense that somebody else killed Caylee. Anthony`s lawyers are filing motions to drop first-degree murder and aggravated child abuse charges. They want the death penalty taken off the table.
This on the heels of 1,000 pages of police documents revealing a major blunder for the state`s case -- duct tape found wrapped around Caylee`s skull contaminated by the FBI, a female lab tech`s DNA discovered on that piece of duct tape. Also, could that hair in Casey Anthony`s truck not show signs of decomposition? That`s what the defense is saying.
But in another revelation, it is revealed a large stain, the silhouette of a child curled up in a fetal position, found in Casey Anthony`s car trunk. The defense is calling it junk science. They say there is not direct evidence linking Casey Anthony to her daughter`s murder. But how will the Anthonys` lawyers explain the 31 days it took to report her child missing and her nights partying around town while little Caylee is gone?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: They got all of their information from me, yet at the same time, they`re twisting stuff. They`ve already said they`re going to pin this on me if they don`t find Caylee.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: I believe there`s something dead back there. I smelled it. I`m, like, Oh, God. I think I whispered out to myself, Please don`t let this be Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was an overpowering smell of death.
CASEY ANTHONY: I forgive whoever has her, but I just want her to come home. I just want my baby back.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: She`s not a murderer.
There`s no evidence that Casey has ever done any harm to her child.
CASEY ANTHONY: I as a mom, I know in my gut there`s a feeling as a parent you know certain things about your child. You can feel that connection. And I still have that presence. I know she`s alive.
My entire life has been taken from me!
GEORGE ANTHONY: Every single one of -- you don`t realize what you`ve done to us, and you don`t care!
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m frustrated and I`m angry.
You don`t understand! Everybody wants me to have answers. I don`t have any answers. I`m not in control over any of this because I don`t know what the hell`s going on!
Mommy loves her very much. She`s the most important thing in this entire world to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Thank you very much for joining us. Major developments in the case of 2-year-old Florida girl Caylee Anthony, Casey Anthony`s lawyers fighting to get first-degree murder charges dropped, their defense that somebody else killed Caylee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why didn`t you call prior to today?
CASEY ANTHONY: Fear of the unknown, fear of the potential of Caylee getting hurt, of not seeing my daughter again.
CINDY ANTHONY: She told us on our visitation, our first jail visitation, that she`s protecting the family from physical harm, including Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you cause any injury to your child, Caylee?
CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you hurt Caylee or leave her somewhere and you`re worried that if we find that out, that people are going to look at you the wrong way?
CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.
CINDY ANTHONY: All it seemed like from day one, you guys were building a case against Casey as a murderer. She`s not -- the only thing I know is she loves that child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ll never live up to your mother`s expectations, right?
CASEY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) that I would ever do anything or let any harm come to that child.
GEORGE ANTHONY: When you say you sympathize and all that kind of stuff -- you don`t give -- anything about me. You don`t care.
CINDY ANTHONY: You have to have hope. If you don`t have hope, you don`t have faith. And I know you don`t have faith.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen -- listen -- listen -- shut up.
CINDY ANTHONY: No, I`m not shutting up.
CASEY ANTHONY: She`s the one thing in this world that I love more than anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: And out to Natisha Lance, NANCY GRACE producer on this case from the very beginning. First of all, Natisha, let`s start from the beginning. What is the defense asking for here?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Jean, the defense is asking for the first two counts against Casey Anthony to be thrown out. So that is the murder charge against her, as well as the child abuse charge that is against her. Now, they are also asking for the death penalty to be taken off the table.
Now, the reason that they want these two first counts to be taken off the table is because they feel that the state does not have enough evidence to prove their case. They`re saying there is no evidence that links Casey Anthony to the crime scene. And as far as the death penalty is concerned, they`re saying there`s only one aggravating factor that would apply to Casey Anthony in this case, and that is that the victim is under the age of 12. And they are saying that is not enough in order to get the death penalty.
CASAREZ: Natisha, one of the documents that they attached to their motion to dismiss -- and you`re right, the defense is asking for this case to be outright dismissed, totally, so there is not a criminal case of first-degree murder against Casey Anthony any longer. They focus in on the hair, that we have heard for months now a hair found in the truck showing signs of decomposition, in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car. What is the defense saying now based on documents released?
LANCE: Well, Jean, they are saying that this is all circumstantial evidence, and they`re calling any test that was done in the trunk of that car to be junk science.
CASAREZ: All right. And I think they are also basing this motion to defense on some discovery just released, saying that the hair (SIC) cannot absolutely say that the hair is from a decomposing body, but it is consistent with a decomposing body. We`re going to go more into this later.
Let`s go straight out now to Kathi Belich with CNN affiliate WFTV. Another thing the defense is focusing on, even through their family attorney, has to do with duct tape. Explain.
KATHI BELICH, WFTV: That`s right. They are really releasing some documents that are state documents before the state released them. And one of them talks about how, microscopically, the duct tape that was found stretched across Caylee`s mouth was dissimilar to the duct tape found on the gas can. Now, that`s microscopically speaking, which simply means they look different. And you have to remember that the duct tape stretched across Caylee`s mouth was facing the elements for months in the Florida heat. So of course, they would look different.
And you might remember the FBI tested the adhesive on both pieces of tape, said they were chemically the same, and that those two pieces of duct tape could actually have come from the same roll.
You just mentioned the information that they`ve just released concerning the hair. That test that they were talking about a couple days ago was actually done early August. It was after that that more tests were done on that hair, and then it was concluded that the hair did show signs of decomposition. So that test came before other tests. The tests are coming to us out of order. You can`t read too much into that.
CASAREZ: Very good information to find out. Now, Kathi Belich, you and your station also did your own comparison for one of your news stories in the local Orlando area about duct tape and duct tape being found on posters when Caylee was still a missing person.
BELICH: That`s right. There was a new focus this week on duct tape. We went back and looked at some of the video we have shot over the months. We looked back at signs that were posted in the Anthonys` home and Caylee posters. We found duct tape on a Caylee poster from July 20th of last year, just days after Casey was arrested and a month after Caylee disappeared, and that duct tape appears to have the same distinct markings on it that you can clearly see on the duct tape that was found on the Anthonys` gas can. Namely, it has a logo for the company, Henkel, that was the manufacturer, and even some specifications concerning temperature on the tape. You can see that on the tape that was found on the Caylee poster that the Anthonys had put up early in the days of the search for Caylee.
Our legal analyst believes that that is one more piece of evidence, one more piece of duct tape that`s similar, that would point to all of them coming from the same roll as a very rare type of duct tape that isn`t manufactured anymore, hasn`t been for years, and it`s a rare industrial tape.
CASAREZ: All right. We are taking your calls live tonight. Kathi, I want to go through this with a fine-toothed comb. The duct tape is from a manufacturer I believe called Henkel company. And actually, a logo of the Henkel company was found on the duct tape?
BELICH: That`s absolutely right. The logo, it`s sort of a black oval logo with a company name on it, and then there`s more printing on the tape. It`s specifications of the temperature, max temperature 200 degrees Fahrenheit. And documents that were previously released to us show that FBI investigators found that same logo also on the tape that was found stretched across Caylee`s mouth.
We understand there are FBI photographs that clearly show that logo. They apparently were provided to the defense months ago, back in March. The defense has had those photographs since March. And they should be about to be released to us sometime soon.
CASAREZ: Kathi, if this duct tape hasn`t been available for years, can you purchase it anywhere in the Orlando area?
BELICH: I`m not sure if you can purchase it still in the Orlando area. The Home Depot did not sell it. Lowe`s did sell it. But I believe that there were only about 100,000 rolls that were sold across North America. It`s a fairly rare duct tape. It`s an industrial duct tape. And the fact that three pieces now have been found connected to the Anthony family just increases the chances, as the FBI says, that it`s likely at least that two pieces have come from the same roll.
CASAREZ: Seems to me more investigation needs to be done on that.
Let`s go out to the attorneys, Susan Moss, advocate, family law attorney out of New York, Joey Jackson, defense attorney out of New York, Midwin Charles, defense attorney out of New York also.
To Susan Moss. You know, the defense has a point here. They are saying there`s just not enough evidence here. You don`t have fingerprints. You don`t have fiber evidence. You don`t have any forensics that match Casey Anthony herself with the crime. Play devil`s advocate with me. Why shouldn`t this case be dismissed?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Absolutely not. Even the circumstantial evidence in this case is enough to convict her. Thirty-one days she doesn`t tell anyone that this child is missing. And how about the Zenaida charade-a? I mean, who can forget the smell of death in her own car? Now they`re coming out and saying, Oh, it wasn`t the smell of death, it was apparently death-scented pizza? Come on! That`s absolutely ridiculous! How about her computer searches for chloroform and other ways to kill a child?
When you put together the whole package, even without the science, and that science is good -- even without the science there`s a conviction.
CASAREZ: You know, Susan Moss, I want to tell you, as an attorney and with Court TV covering so many cases for many years, I`ve covered many death penalty case that are circumstantial cases. And guess what? There is a conviction.
Now, one that stands out in my mind is the Scott Peterson case in California. We all remember that case, right? That was a circumstantial case. You know what? There was one piece of direct evidence, one piece, and it was in the boat. And it was those pliers that had the sharpened points on them. And it had a hair of his wife that was found murdered. He was ultimately convicted on that.
But Joey Jackson, defense attorney, your thoughts on this? Because the defense asking for this case to be dismissed.
JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, what`ll happen, Jean, is this. There`s no question about the fact that the discovery of information that they have is going to help them. It`s going to help them substantially. But it is certainly not going to lead to the dismissal of the case. But they are going to play it up big in front of the jury.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: I have a 3-year-old that`s been missing for a month.
911 OPERATOR: A 3-year-old?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: Have you reported that?
CINDY ANTHONY: I`m trying to do that now, ma`am.
CASEY ANTHONY: There`s absolutely nothing to find out, not even what I told the detectives.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you know, everything that you`re telling them is a lie.
CASEY ANTHONY: I have no clue where Caylee is. If I knew where Caylee was, do you think any of this would be happening? No.
CINDY ANTHONY: We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl! I need to find her!
I don`t know what your involvement is, sweetheart. You`re not telling me where she`s at.
CASEY ANTHONY: Because I don`t (DELETED) know where she`s at. Are you kidding me?
CINDY ANTHONY: I love her and I support her, and that I understand. And every day that goes by, I know exactly how hard it is that she`s giving up her life to protect her child.
My daughter may have some mistruths out there or half truths, but she is not a murderer.
There`s no evidence that Casey has ever done any harm to her child.
CASEY ANTHONY: I as a mom, I know in my gut there`s feeling as a parent, you know certain things about your child. You can feel that connection. And I still have that feeling.
CINDY ANTHONY: What she told me and what I found out was two different things. I don`t know Casey`s reasons for telling me except that what she`s told me. She told me she was protecting Caylee and she`s protecting the family. And until this day, I still believe that she`s protecting Caylee and the family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace. Let`s go out to Jayda in New York. Are you there, Jayda?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I am.
CASAREZ: Hi. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I`ve been watching the case and everything from the beginning, and I heard about the stain in the trunk that`s in the shape of a child in the fetal position.
CASAREZ: Yes. OK. So you want to know more about that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. My question is, since the defense is trying to argue that it could be any -- you know, anything, my question would be, if, you know, when it does go to trial and if it is entered as evidence, would they be able to get a child to lay, you know, like, in the silhouette, so they can see that it is a child? Is that something they would be able to do?
CASAREZ: That`s a great question. Midwin Charles, defense attorney, it just came out that investigators believe through visual examination that they can see a silhouette of an outline of a child in a fetal position in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car. Number one, can that come into evidence? And number two, could the prosecution do a type of experiment showing what a child that age would look like in a fetal position to match the silhouette they say is in the car?
MIDWIN CHARLES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m sure that they can do that. The problem is whether or not it would be convincing to a jury. I mean, that`s one of the things that we`re always trying to work with here, is whether or not the evidence presented to the jury is substantial enough that they would have no reasonable doubt. And right now, you`ve got a lot of circumstantial evidence but no direct evidence.
CASAREZ: And that is one of the big issues. I want to go out to Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health out of Johns Hopkins University. You know this hair that we have been hearing about for months in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car -- extremely important forensic evidence. Well, what the discovery documents say is that they cannot conclusively say it`s a hair of decomposition but it`s consistent with decomposition. Now, as I travel around the country and am in courtrooms, what I hear is that 10 out of 12 markers are consistent with the DNA of the defendant. That`s a word we hear. Can you ever conclusively say something is just so?
DR. MARTY MAKARY, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: Well, most of the time. But most of the time, you`ve got multiple hair cells to make this highly certain diagnosis again and again and again. And with every additional hair cell, that certainty goes up tenfold. The problem is, in this case, there`s one hair cell, and we`re told that that hair does not definitively fall under the category of hair that comes from a decomposed person. You know, usually, a hair`s a treasure trove of information, but sometimes, it can be a little ambiguous.
CASAREZ: All right. Well, if a hair is consistent with decomposition in a trunk that has air samples which show the presence of decomposition, does that give it more strength?
MAKARY: It certainly gives it more strength. You know, not much will give you air samples of decomposition. The body gives off unique chemicals, molecules that become airborne, and those samples really only mean one thing. It means there`s a decomposed human being. It doesn`t mean there`s food or other things that bacteria has grown on, it means there`s a human being there.
CASAREZ: All right. And that evidence is not being attacked by the defense right here.
Let`s go out to Patricia in Maryland. Hi, Patricia. Good evening.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you?
CASAREZ: I`m fine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is about this duct tape that`s been messed with in the lab. What happened with that? I mean...
CASAREZ: That`s a great question. Let`s go to Natisha Lance, NANCY GRACE producer. Talk to us about the duct tape that fingerprints were found on, but it happened to be a lab technician, right, investigator. Talk to us about that.
LANCE: Well, actually, Jean, it was a hair that was found on there that belonged to this lab technician. So this duct tape has been contaminated. Now, there is also a test -- remember there was that residue from a heart-shaped sticker that was on that duct tape. They apparently did a test for fingerprinting on the duct tape, and now that residue from that heart-shaped sticker is gone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY: When I drove around, I told my wife, I said, This car stinks so bad, I can`t -- I`m having a hard time driving it home. It`s raining outside. I have the windows down in this car probably about this much to get home. I couldn`t freaking breathe.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: Can someone let me -- come on!
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey, hold on, sweetheart. Settle down.
CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s letting me speak!
I still believe my daughter.
GEORGE ANTHONY: I believe in my daughter.
CINDY ANTHONY: I already answered this question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you believe she was fabricating...
CINDY ANTHONY: I already answered the question. I`m not answering it again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any interest in helping us?
CASEY ANTHONY: I`ve had interest in helping law enforcement from the beginning. Unfortunately, my hands were literally tied and I was put in a position where someone was trying to trick a confession out of me, and that`s not going to happen.
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey`s lied to me in the past. And when she`s lied, she`s told me the truth. We`ve always gotten to the bottom of the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Over a thousand documents have been released in discovery in the Casey Anthony case. The defense now has filed two motions, one to dismiss this case outright. They say somebody else killed Caylee Anthony. And they`ve also asked for the death penalty to be taken off the table.
I want to go to Woodrow Tripp, former police commander out of Atlanta, Georgia. It is so true, as our last caller said, that the duct tape that was found on the skeletal remains had forensic evidence from actually one of the crime scene investigators out of Tampa that was at the scene. What does this do to the state`s forensic case?
WOODROW TRIPP, FORMER POLICE COMMANDER: It definitely, absolutely, completely confuses, if not totally throws that part of the DNA evidence out.
CASAREZ: And -- but isn`t there a positive in all of this? They know who that forensic evidence belongs to. It belongs to a crime scene investigator out of Tampa that was at the scene. If they weren`t able to find out who it was from, it would be this unknown that the defense could go to, to say that this may be the person that put the duct tape around and therefore murdered Caylee Anthony. Isn`t that a positive, though?
TRIPP: It`s a positive in the sense that, yes, they were able to rule out who it was. The negative in this is, is that was the only hair. So at this point, they`re back to zero.
CASAREZ: All right. To Lisa in California. Hi, Lisa. Thanks for calling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
CASAREZ: Hi. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, if Casey`s mom says that she smelled something in the trunk, don`t you think she would have gone out to, like, open the trunk and investigated the smell?
CASAREZ: All right. That`s a very good question. To Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation, child advocate. You know, Marc, Lisa brings us back to the very basics in this case. The family smelled signs of decomposition.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: If you think of anything that could help, don`t be afraid.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: Oh, I won`t hesitate to let you guys know.
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: Being forthcoming and being truthful are two completely separate things.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did y`all think she was being forthcoming?
CASEY ANTHONY: As far as anything else at the moment, there`s either nothing that I can obviously give to you now or you know. There really honestly isn`t anything I can think of at this exact moment.
L. ANTHONY: It`s felt to me that there was reluctance.
CASEY ANTHONY: I can only do so much from where I`m at. And I want to do so much more, but I can`t.
L. ANTHONY: I don`t want you to, you know, feel for any reason that, you know, we`re not on your side about anything, because we are about everything. We`re completely behind you.
CASEY ANTHONY: Oh, I know.
L. ANTHONY: I just don`t know if I can believe what she`s saying. You know? Where are you? We need to meet up. You know, we need to make this happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what did she say?
L. ANTHONY: I`m in Jacksonville. I said no, you`re not.
(LAUGHTER)
You`re here. You know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you`d have told the truth and not lied about everything.
CINDY ANTHONY: How come she never got a chance to get the car? It doesn`t make sense.
CASEY ANTHONY: Mom.
CINDY ANTHONY: I trust Casey.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: I know my daughter`s not leveling with me. And I know this is what she`s done in the past.
CASEY ANTHONY: All I want is Caylee home. But I want to be there when she comes home.
G. ANTHONY: You know, I`ve got to believe her that she knows where -- everything is OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network "In Session" in for Nancy Grace. We want to show everybody right here, these are the 1,000 pages of documents that have just come out most recently in discovery.
And because of these pages of documents the defense has concluded that Casey Anthony did not kill her own daughter. So they have filed a motion to dismiss, saying this court should not entertain this case because there`s no direct evidence showing that Casey Anthony killed Caylee.
I want to go out to Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation out of San Francisco, California.
Marc, when you hear all of this and the defense attorneys were on all of the morning shows today talking about this, what are your thoughts?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, you know, the defense attorneys have told us time and time again that this case is going to be adjudicated in the courtroom and not on the TV. So it`s kind of ironic that they have gone on to this offensive today.
And I think it`s probably a desperation move. And I also believe that if Casey Anthony were my client I`d probably be pretty desperate, too. But you know, going back to the beginning, as your previous caller had done, with the trunk, everything up until the forensics points directly at Casey and really at nobody else despite every attempt that the family has made to point the finger at other people.
CASAREZ: To Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist out of New York. You know, Marc Klaas makes a very good point. The defense has always said we want to try this in the courtroom. We don`t want to try this in the court of public opinion.
And one thing they said in their motion and they said on some of the news shows today is that Casey Anthony has very compelling reasons for what she did when she did it after her daughter went missing and it will come out in a trial.
And that has to do with not reporting to authorities for 31 days her child was missing, the fact that it`s documented that she was partying, that she got a tattoo on her back, "vita bella," good life.
How is the defense going to explain compelling reasons for doing all this?
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, you sure got me on that one, Jean. I don`t have a clue. But I think the defense is doing what defense attorneys do. And the Anthonys are doing what desperate parents do.
And that`s to take different slices of facts, different slices of reality, and try and shift people`s understanding of it. It`s like propaganda. People can put out all kinds of wild, bizarre, or a little different statements and just hope someone on the jury`s going to believe them.
CASAREZ: To Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, who has been a part of this case for a long time, you know, it sure does help the prosecution to have direct evidence, but circumstantial cases can be actually even stronger than direct evidence cases.
When you look at the direct evidence, though, in this case, can you find any and what do you think is the closest to that that the prosecution will hang its hat on?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, I think they`ve got enough. I`ve been around hundreds of these cases that had less direct evidence than this one`s got. But you have to look at it in the totality. You can`t just look at one item where a lab technician messed up and want to excuse the rest of the case or get it dismissed.
It`s just not going to happen that way. When those lab technicians get up on that stand --you take a fellow like Todd. This is his first criminal defense case, he`s never done a criminal case. That`s why he makes these statements about well, I want to get it dismissed because it`s junk technology and all that.
No, it`s not. Those lab technicians are very practiced. They`re very methodical when they testify. And you don`t realize that you`re listening to information that is coming -- in a sense it`s direct information when they put it out on evidence.
When they testify, believe me, it doesn`t sound like it`s forensics. It sounds like they were there and they saw it and they`re testifying to that.
CASAREZ: You know, Leonard Padilla.
PADILLA: And the jury`s going to believe them.
CASAREZ: What you are talking about right here is an extremely important point, and it is called the weight of the evidence. That the jury is allowed to hear all of the evidence and they themselves weigh the evidence.
Susan Moss, your thoughts?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: Absolutely. Even if Mark Fuhrman was the FBI investigator on this case, they`re still going to get a conviction. And the reason for that is the science is real. And even if you throw away some of the evidence that`s been contaminated, the duct tape, et cetera, you still have the chloroform in that car belonging to Casey.
It`s her car. She was the only one using it. You still have those computer searches. You still have the fact that these -- all these pictures of her caravansing (ph) all around when her daughter is missing. You can`t explain that away and a jury`s not going to buy any explanation.
CASAREZ: You know, to Joey Jackson, defense attorney, obviously this is your show tonight because we`re talking about the defense`s motions and what they have.
JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Sure.
CASAREZ: But when you look at the trunk of that car -- that was Casey Anthony`s car. She had the control of that car. She had the domain of that car. In fact, her boyfriend even described to police the last time she drove her car and just abandon it and then it was later towed to a tow yard. How do you get over the fact that that was -- she had the complete control and authority over that vehicle?
JACKSON: She did indeed, Jean, but at the end of the day, listen, we don`t want to base the case upon duct tape and silhouettes and if the prosecution is doing that certainly they have a, you know, tough row to hoe.
The reality is as you ask questions about why the defense is on TV and they`re stating their case, you want to even the playing field and to the extent that they now can contaminate the jury pool in their favor by indicating, look, we have this evidence out here but it`s circumstantial.
Look at the direct evidence, and what the defense is going to do, Jean, is they`re going to say we have to base this case on direct evidence, where is it? It`s all circumstantial. Why didn`t she report it within 30 days? She panicked. Why was she out partying? She was in denial. And so they`re going to attempt to explain it that way.
CASAREZ: To Midwin Charles, defense attorney, you know, I`ve read the motions and one thing that I think the defense is really trying to do here, they want to get the death penalty out of this case. Agree?
MIDWIN CHARLES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. And I think it`s one of the best things they can do. I mean, as Joey said, there`s no direct evidence here. So what are you going to do as a defense attorney? You`re going to represent your client zealously.
You`re going to do what you can to ensure that you can throw out that death penalty case. Because right now that is really the toughest thing that she`s facing.
CASAREZ: And you know the lead attorney as far as death penalty in this case, that aspect, is Andrea Lyon. She comes out of Illinois. She was not on any of the talk shows this morning. She is a death penalty lawyer.
I`m in the middle of reading her book right now. She has never lost a case, the death penalty, in regard to asking the jury for death penalty. Of course Illinois is different from Florida.
Let`s go to Stacy in Canada. Good evening, Stacy.
STACY, CALLER FROM CANADA: Hi. Good evening. How are you?
CASAREZ: Hi. Your question.
STACY: I love your show. I`d like to know where this nanny is -- where she is and when she left the child with this lady how long has -- when did she leave the child with this lady?
CASAREZ: OK. Good question. Kathi Belich, CNN affiliate WFTV.
Kathi, let`s go back to the beginning. Talk to us about this nanny. Because those were the first words out of Casey Anthony`s mouth when she spoke with investigators.
KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE WFTV, COVERING STORY: That`s right. She told them that she dropped Caylee off with the nanny on June 16th. It was the day after Father`s Day. It was a Monday.
She said she dropped her off with a nanny at the Sawgrass Apartments, that her name is Zenaida Gonzalez. And no one -- that`s a good question, where is she, who is she, because no one knows the answer to that question.
And just at the Anthonys` attorney`s news conference the other day he claims now the family is now focused on Puerto Rico looking for this Zenaida Gonzalez. But as -- it`s been more than a year, and nobody can produce this woman who was allegedly Casey Anthony`s nanny.
CASAREZ: And to bounty hunter, Leonard Padilla, you were in the home for a long time. Did they talk about the nanny? Did they talk about Zenaida Gonzalez or Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez?
PADILLA: Yes, they did. Cindy came to me and said she wants to talk to you. We sat there, and Cindy says here`s what happened, she took the baby away from her at the J. Blanchard Park, her and her sister Samantha. They had the two kids and they put the child Caylee in a silver Ford Focus.
This is all bunk. She came up with that information on the 17th, when Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez was at the Sawgrass Apartments, looking for an apartment, trying to get away from a bad marriage and she put -- she only had two kids and she was driving a silver Kia that looks like a Ford Focus. She`s making it all up, and the whole family`s going with it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR. 911. What`s your emergency?
CINDY ANTHONY: I called a little bit ago. The deputy sheriff. I found out my granddaughter has been taken. She has been missing for a month. I felt rotten whatever it was. Something decomposing in there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The trunk was open, the windows were rolled down to what I assume ventilate the horrible smell. Whatever it was, it was very potent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The smell that I smelled inside that car was the smell of decomposition.
CINDY ANTHONY: There`s no evidence that Casey has ever done any harm to her child. She lived with me for three years. I`ve never seen anything.
G. ANTHONY: I got a sick feeling for a second because the car that was all closed up, and from me to you away from it, and you could smell an odor. You don`t forget that odor, no matter what it is. You never, ever forget it.
CINDY ANTHONY: Caylee is not dead.
CASEY ANTHONY: In my gut she`s still OK, and it still feels like she is close to home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network "In Session" in for Nancy Grace tonight.
Very, very big news for the Casey Anthony case. The defense is saying based on the most recent discovery documents there is not direct evidence linking Casey Anthony to the murder of her daughter Caylee. The forensics just aren`t there, therefore the case should be dismissed. This is going to be part of a very big hearing in the short term.
To Kathi Belich with CNN affiliate WFTV in Orlando, Florida. You have been on this case. You are there in Orlando. We have no indication that forensic evidence testing has concluded, right? I mean, this is a huge case with many pieces of evidence. There may still not be things that the prosecutors know that we don`t know.
BELICH: There might be a lot of those things. A good example is the photographs of the duct tape that was stretched across Caylee`s mouth. The defense has had that since March. We still haven`t gotten it ourselves. And for all we know testing is still ongoing in this case.
This is a very complicated case. You see how all of those FBI agents who were working that duct tape were tested for DNA just to find out whose hair that was they had found, or whatever the DNA was on that -- on that duct tape.
I mean, this is just a very complicated case, and there might still be things that even the investigators don`t know yet.
CASAREZ: It truly is. The thousands of documents that we already have.
To Natisha Lance, Nancy Grace producer, I want to focus on this duct tape again. And Brad Conway has come out -- I don`t believe the discovery is in the hands of the public yet, but he is saying that the fabric of the duct tape found on the remains of Caylee does not match any duct tape on any gas can or anything that is in the possession of the Anthony family.
But here`s my question. Shouldn`t prosecutors and investigators be looking for where you could buy it and if it has a very small -- or if it could be purchased on the Internet, if there are any computer records that show a purchase of something like that? Right?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Jean. And actually, that is what prosecutors did. They did exactly that thing. And what they were able to find out from the Henkel Company is that 134,000 rolls were sold in 2006 and 2007.
Now that brand is a rare brand. It`s called Fireguard Duck. There`s not very many that are sold. It`s about less than 1 percent of all the duct tape sales that happened from about 2002 through 2007 constitute this duct tape brand.
And also, Jean, the odds of having these two pieces of duct tape randomly in the same area, the odds are about 250,000 to 1. So prosecutors are using this. This is something that they probably are going to bring up during their case. And those are pretty high odds.
CASAREZ: And there`s the logo right there. The Henkel logo right there. And the question I have, and you probably don`t know the answer. I don`t think anyone does. But it`s so rare. Can it be purchased in Orlando? If so, where? If so, how close is that to the home? If so, was anyone from the family or Casey Anthony ever in that store?
I mean, those are questions we still have in this case that we don`t know the answers to.
Joy in Tennessee. Thanks for hanging on, Joy. Good evening.
JOY, CALLER FROM TENNESSEE: Hi. How are you?
CASAREZ: I`m fine. What`s your question?
JOY: Actually, I had a two-part question. First of all, Casey, they explain it as ugly coping, the 31 days that Caylee was missing she`s supposedly looking for her?
CASAREZ: OK.
JOY: And she blames it on, you know, Zenaida. So that proves Zenaida is not -- so there she`s caught in a lie. And also, her mother, you know, says I think that she`s protecting us, protecting the family. OK. Well, Caylee`s already passed away. Her mother and father are out on their own. She`s in jail. Who`s she protecting them from?
CASAREZ: OK. In other words, who is protecting Caylee right now, I think, is your question. The victim in all of this.
Let`s first go out to Leonard Padilla. The first part of the question was that Casey Anthony said in the 31 days she didn`t report her daughter missing she was looking for her. Did you hear any conversation about that in the home?
PADILLA: You know, when we were in the home we never, ever discussed let`s go out and look for her, let`s go see where she`s at, let`s go do anything. No. But I will tell you this. In hindsight I`m going to tell you that the whole family is delusional. They follow Cindy`s lead.
She makes up a lie, and the next thing is everybody`s following it. And the reason they don`t bring Kronk into the middle of this thing is because they are afraid what they might have to reveal as what was overheard by Kronk, what Kronk knows, how he got his information where the body was, and Jose Baez himself is concerned about that.
He cannot say, well, this is what happened. Casey told me that the body was at such and such a place and somehow Kronk got that information because it was overheard by somebody in the jail. So.
CASAREZ: Patricia Saunders.
PADILLA: . they`re all delusional.
CASAREZ: All right. All right. Got your point. Thank you.
Patricia Saunders, we`ve got just a few seconds. But everyone is protecting Casey Anthony. Who`s protecting Caylee tonight?
SAUNDERS: The prosecution is protecting her.
CASAREZ: All right. And tonight we now have "CNN Heroes."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: This is "CNN Heroes."
JOHN LEGEND, SINGER: Hello. I`m John Legend. During last year`s "CNN Heroes: An All-Star Tribute," I had the honor of performing and helping to recognize the great works of everyday citizens changing the world.
As founder of the "Show Me Campaign," which seeks an end to global poverty, I am thrilled to be able to help CNN introduce one of this year`s top 10 honorees.
Now more than ever, the world needs heroes.
DOC HENDLEY, COMMUNITY CRUSADER: Approximately one billion lack access to clean water. It`s killing more children than AIDS and malaria combined. And yet all of that can be prevented. The regulars especially sit on the same stool. They pay the same tab every day. I felt like they really did want to be a part of something.
My name is Doc Hendley. I used to be a bartender and now I provide clean water to people in need.
I got on the ground in Darfur, seeing these people living in conflicts yet their biggest concern was this huge loss of life because of the unclean water. That`s when the water changed as a burden.
Whether we are filtering the water or drilling the well, we want to train and educate people that are already on the ground, enabling locals to fix their own water.
That joy is the only thing that helps lift the burden. You can be just a regular anybody and you can really, really change the world. I`m walking truth of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CASAREZ: And now a look back at the stories making the headlines this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When did you last see her?
MISTY CROSLIN-CUMMINGS, STEPMOM OF MISSING GIRL, HALEIGH CUMMINGS: It was about 10:00. She was sleeping.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we need is for Misty to come down here and tell us the truth.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She is gone. She left town.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Haleigh Cumming`s stepmom Misty Croslin has been found.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve been told that she was on one (INAUDIBLE) to one of the amusement parks. I can confirm she was at Universal Studios with a friend.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Misty just wants to speak with police.
CROSLIN: And people think that I have something to do with. If I have something to do with it, if I knew where she was, we wouldn`t be sitting here today.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Thirty years hiding out in luxury in Europe. A Hollywood superstar finally behind bars.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: There is disturbing yet growing defense of Roman Polanski in this country. Martin Scorsese, Woody Allen, Debra Winger.
GRACE: Shame, shame, shame on them.
ERIC PETERSON, NEIGHBOR OF MARIA GURROLLA, RESCUED GURROLLA`S 3-YR-OLD DAUGHTER: (INAUDIBLE) Please help me.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Federal agents and national police are searching for this missing newborn from Tennessee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect is a woman knocked on the door. Her mother Maria Gurrolla answered the door.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The woman began to hit her and pulled out a knife and began to stab her.
PETERSON: Covered with blood all the way down to her toes.
G. ANTHONY: If you said the remains one more time, I`m walking out. How dare you say that about my granddaughter? How dare you?
GRACE: High-tech FBI testing reveals the outline, a child curled up in the fetal position discovered in tot mom`s car trunk.
CINDY ANTHONY: It smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
G. ANTHONY: The stain was in the trunk of my daughter`s car. (INAUDIBLE) in the trunk, and instantaneously, that gets in your house just like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Tonight let us stop to remember Marine Staff Sergeant, Daniel Hanson, 24-years old, Tracy, California. From a family of military vets, he also served in Afghanistan and as a Presidential Guard at Camp David. He was awarded the Purple Heart and National Defense Service Medal.
He loved sports, mixed marshal arts and writing short stories. He leaves behind his parents, Delbert and Sheryl, two sisters, one serving in the Army, twin brother and best friend, Matthew who`s also serving the Marines, and fiance, Emily.
Daniel Hanson, an American hero.
Thank you so much to all of our guests and to you at home for being with us tonight. See you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Good night, everybody.
END
