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Interview With Sheriff Joe Arpaio; Blackface Skit Airs on Australian TV

Aired October 08, 2009 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Blackface, in America, an insensitive way to portray African-Americans. But, in Australia, why is it still getting laughs? That is, until American Harry Connick Jr. speaks his mind.

HARRY CONNICK JR., SINGER: If they turned up looking like that in the United States...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes.

CONNICK: ... hey, hey, there's no more show.

SANCHEZ: Why are we so different? We will ask an expert.

Meanwhile, in America, a congressman compares gays to:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you're oriented toward animals, if you're oriented toward corpses or children, some would say, it sounds like fun.

SANCHEZ: Sounds like fun? Did he really say that?

This New Jersey Republican is being portrayed by a Democratic governor as -- quote -- "throwing his weight around." Throwing his weight around? And the ad appears to be working.

And Sheriff Joe Arpaio wants to bust more undocumented immigrants, but the feds say, nope, not anymore. And he isn't taking it sitting down.

He joins me live on our national conversation for Thursday, October 8, 2009.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

SANCHEZ: Hi, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez and we're going to begin our national conversation today with what is a throwback to a time before the civil rights movement in this country, back to a time when, as offensive as it is today, it was considered comedy gold for TV legends like Milton Berle to smear on blackface -- that's what it's called, blackface -- and belt out an Al Jolson impersonation.

That was more than 50 years ago. We do know better now. But along comes a videotape that makes us, as a nation, you know, constantly embroiled in conversations about race and racism that we are, but this videotape almost makes us, the United States of America, on the issue of racism, seem enlightened.

What you're about to see is an Australian variety show. It's called "Hey Hey It's Saturday." And as you watch it, you may want to exclaim, hey, hey, it's offensive. Now, keep watching, because American singer Harry Connick Jr. is there when it happens and he steps in to point that out, that it's offensive.

Amelia Adams reports for Australia's Channel Nine Network.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMELIA ADAMS, CHANNEL NINE REPORTER (voice-over): The Jackson Jive performed a tribute that (INAUDIBLE) faces 20 years ago. But the only thing guest judge Harry Connick Jr. was feeling was shocked.

CONNICK: Man, if they turned up looking like that in the United States...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes.

CONNICK: Hey, hey, there's no more show.

ADAMS: Host Daryl Somers apologized.

CONNICK: But we have spent so much time trying to not make black people look like buffoons that when we see something like that, we take it really to heart.

ADAMS: Today, Jackson Jive front man Dr. Anand Deva defended the group, all prominent Sidney doctors.

DR. ANAND DEVA, JACKSON JIVE: So, I want to say on behalf of all of us that this was really not intended to have anything to do with racism at all.

DARYL SOMERS, HOST, "HEY HEY IT'S SATURDAY": It was a tribute to Michael Jackson, and I think from an Australian audience point of view, they would see the lightness of it.

ADAMS: But, overseas, a very different reaction, with news Web sites describing the skit as racist and tacky, given the recent death of Michael Jackson.

STEPAN KERKYASHARIAN, COMMUNITY RELATIONS COMMISSIONER: I thought that it would be offensive to someone of African-American background. I thought it was something that belonged to the past.

CONNICK: So, it's not like people down here aren't aware of the social stigma that's associated with blackface.

ADAMS: Connick himself has come in for criticism for this skit, accused of hypocrisy for mimicking a preacher, but Connick insists he wasn't pretending to be African-American.

CONNICK: All right, Reverend (INAUDIBLE) I have to speak my mind.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, break it down for them now.

ADAMS: The "Hey Hey" sketch also offended a national icon.

KAMAHL, ENTERTAINER: It's low. You know, it's low humor. It's not clever. It's cheap.

ADAMS: But it hasn't changed this superstar's passion for the show.

CONNICK: I'm going to call the prime minister and try to get the show back on the air. It's funny. How can you not like a talking ostrich?

SOMERS: I think I need a severe lie-down after all of that, but, certainly, we will talk about maybe what could happen next year.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Here is what's interesting about this. The show overall was a ratings juggernaut. Nearly three million people in Australia's five largest cities tuned in, demolishing the TV competition.

And today on his Web site, Harry Connick Jr. says -- I'm going to read this to you -- he says: "I have watched the media storm that's erupted over my reaction to the 'Hey Hey' blackface skit. Where I come from, blackface is a very specific and very derogatory thing. Perhaps this is different in other parts of the world."

We have been wanting to drill down on this. We think it's fascinating. We think you might think so, too.

So, Patricia O'Brien is from Australia. She now lives in Washington, where she teaches at the Center for Australian and New Zealand Studies at Georgetown University.

Thank you, Patricia, for being with us.

PATRICIA O'BRIEN, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Am I wrong to suggest that Australia appears, to me, to be today where the United States was in the 1950s culturally?

O'BRIEN: I think that that would be a very inaccurate statement, despite the footage that you just showed. Australia has moved on in many ways since the 1950s. And I think many people in Australia were very offended by the "Hey Hey It's Saturday" skit.

SANCHEZ: Well, not really. Actually, Patricia, I'm looking at a poll right now that was conducted by Channel Nine -- 30 percent of the people say the skit was racist -- 70 percent of Australians in this poll say it wasn't.

And polls across Australia -- because I had one of my staffers check on this to see if maybe this is just one poll that was a little out of character from the rest -- actually, this is pretty much in keeping with all the other polls that were taken in Australia -- 70 percent of the people didn't think that was racist.

O'BRIEN: Well, I would be very skeptical about Channel Nine's poll, because that is the station that ran the show that just revived "Hey Hey It's Saturday," which has been off the air for many years. And they just revived it in an attempt to get ratings on Saturday night.

And, so, I'm very skeptical about the polls. I really do sincerely believe that most people in Australia would have found that skit very off because of its racial portrayals and also because it has come so soon after Michael Jackson passing away.

SANCHEZ: Would you give any ground to those who assert that the Australian culture is, perhaps, a little more rigid when it comes to, for example, the Aborigines, and that perhaps because it doesn't have a lot of African-Americans, because it never had a civil rights situation like we had in this country, that it might be still behind in these terms?

O'BRIEN: Australia did have a civil rights movement in the late '60s and the 1970s, which was about the empowerment of Aboriginal people through land rights and legal rights and social rights.

And that brought about massive changes in Australia on all kinds of levels. And I think that that is -- it's -- it's very important to think that Australia is not where America was in the 1950s. Australia has changed enormously in all levels of society. And they're...

SANCHEZ: Well, then how does something like this happen? I mean, in the United States, if somebody had come to a producer for NBC or CBS or CNN, for that matter, or any one of the major networks, and said, we are going to do a blackface routine -- I'm not talking about a black guy imitating a white guy or a white guy imitating a black guy for comedy purposes.

I'm talking about blackface, which is what these guys were wearing, forgetting or putting aside the fact that they were making fun of a dead man. In this country, I would think -- and I'm never positive, but I would think that the producer would not allow that to go on the air. Why was that allowed to go on the air in Australia?

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: I cannot speak for the people at Channel Nine.

I mean, I'm amazed. When "Hey Hey It's Saturday" used to be on, it was before the age of YouTube. They -- perhaps they were so naive that they thought that they could keep it in-house, that it wouldn't get exposure. Perhaps they thought that this was a good way to get people talking and to get people watching the show.

I can't understand it, and particularly because there has been a high-profile radio personality who has been pulled off the air in recent weeks for making racist comments.

SANCHEZ: So, you found it offensive?

O'BRIEN: Oh, I did, yes.

SANCHEZ: Are you troubled by the fact that it took a foreigner, it took an American to tell the Australian host that what he had just seen was improper and offensive and wrong?

O'BRIEN: I am troubled by that, but I'm really not surprised, because that -- I mean, the host's name is Daryl Somers. And he has been doing that shtick for a long time, and he still, obviously, thinks it's OK. He's a has-been. The show's a has-been, but obviously, other people have different ideas about it.

SANCHEZ: One final thing, I was shocked as I watched it. After the skit was done, they interviewed the guys who were doing the skit. And one would immediately think -- I don't mean to besmirch the character of these people, but one would think that somebody who would do something like that would be a buffoon.

It turns out they're all doctors, cardiologists, specialists, pulmonologists, plastic surgeons. They went -- through these are educated men who were doing that routine. That, in and of itself, also couldn't help but make me wonder about how leading principled supposedly intellectuals in Australia would be the ones who were putting on that skit. It wasn't "Hee Haw."

O'BRIEN: I was deeply surprised as well. I -- they were reviving a skit that they did 20 years ago. And, you know, I do not know what they were thinking, but it was really off.

SANCHEZ: And you're here to tell people, don't judge my country by that skit, right?

O'BRIEN: I am. And can I just say...

SANCHEZ: Please.

O'BRIEN: ... something that has astounded me in recent weeks is that I have become aware of something called Chia Obama, which to me is...

SANCHEZ: Equally offensive.

O'BRIEN: Equally offensive. And I don't know how that is advertised readily. I find that amazing. So, I don't know...

SANCHEZ: No, no, your point is well taken. If you're trying to say that we struggle with our own issues ourselves, I don't think there's anyone out there who would disagree with you. It's just that this one, using the blackface, being a part of American folklore, a part of American folklore that I don't think many people are proud of, it really seemed to stand out.

And that's the reason we wanted to have you on to take us through this, and we thank you for sharing your perspective.

O'BRIEN: Thank you, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Thank you, Professor.

All right, I want to show you something else now. That's Sheriff Joe Arpaio. Some in the media call him the toughest sheriff in America. Most of that reputation, by the way, comes from his aggressive, some would say too aggressive, crackdown on immigrants.

Well, now the federal government is taking away his power to make immigration arrests. What's going on here? I'm going to ask him.

Also, a state trooper sees a car zooming down the highway. He pulls the car over. Guess who's in the car. I'm going to give you a hint. It's a Southern governor with a penchant for running away for long weekends -- all right, this is going to give it away completely -- and hiking in the Appalachians, or maybe not. Brazil?

I will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Wow, some interesting comments that we're getting on that subject we did just moments ago. I want to share a couple of them with you. Let's start with MySpace.

It's all the way over here. All right, we will start with -- Jerry (ph), you got it? Yes, start with MySpace.

"Australia is my top place to visit. This breaks my heart. Now I wonder how I would be treated if I go." Interesting.

But look at these two on Twitter now. Let's flip it around to Twitter and you can see. "How can we assume that Aussies know about the history of blackface in America? Don't be so ethnocentric."

Jerry, move back just little bit so I can see, because I want to read the second one, too, which I thought was interesting. "Hey, Rick, were black folks offended that Michael Jackson tried so hard to appear white?"

So, two critical questions, two critical comments here, really, I guess, targeted at me after that interview that I did moments ago with the professor in Washington.

Hey, you're the governor of a state. You don't have to obey the laws, right? Or do you? Drive as fast as you want, right? Or can you? The roads belong to you. Or do they? All right, Mel Brooks, "History of the World: Part I," it's good to be the king. See if you can -- well, see if you think that's a match with this. Let's watch it together now.

South Carolina dash-cam, Interstate 385. A state trooper pulls a big black car over for going 85 miles an hour. Out comes the driver, shows his badge, tells the officer he's state agent with a VIP in the car. Well, who's that VIP in the car? Well, guess who it is. It's South Carolina's governor, Governor Mark Sanford.

All right, what would you do if you were the officer? Sure, you would shake the governor's hand, as he does, and then get out of there, right? Well, that's what the trooper did, without writing a ticket. That's what you call job security, folks, right? He works for the governor.

Well, back up. The governor's office decided that wasn't fair and today announced that the driver will be issued a speeding ticket, and they apologized to the highway patrolman for putting him in an awkward spot. Just thought you should know.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back to the world headquarters of CNN. I'm Rick Sanchez.

I'm about to talk to Sheriff Joe Arpaio. You know who that is, Joe Arpaio, sheriff, Maricopa County, Arizona. He's been on this program. He and I have interviewed or I have interviewed him before several times. We have argued about conditions in his jail and we have argued about how he is purported to treat and feed his inmates.

We have also argued about his attitude toward undocumented immigrants and how he would like to deal with them. Well, today, Sheriff Joe Arpaio is angry again. He says there's a conspiracy against him that took away his power to crack down on undocumented immigrants. Sheriff Joe will talk to me in just a little bit, and you're going to hear what he has to say.

But, first, I want to give you a chance to see the complete story, what the latest controversy is about his power, or lack thereof. So says the federal government.

Our reporter is Thelma Gutierrez.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He calls himself the toughest sheriff in America, tough on crime, tough on prisoners, tough on illegal immigrants in Maricopa County, Arizona. Now he says the feds are trying to clip his wings.

For two and a half years, Sheriff Joe Arpaio and his deputies have had the authority to act as federal immigration agents under what's called a 287G agreement with the Department of Homeland Security to investigate, apprehend, transport and detain people who are living and working in the country without authorization. Yesterday, Arpaio says, that power was stripped away by the federal government. The Department of Homeland Security told us that's premature. A decision has not been made.

SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA: This is all a conspiracy. It started two years ago.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go back to Mexico! GUTIERREZ: Arpaio says he's now become the poster boy of the emotionally charged immigration debate, and he lost his federal authority to go after illegal immigrants for political reasons, but his critics say it's the other way around.

DAN POCHODA, ACLU ARIZONA: He has been going out solely to fuel his immigration base, anti-immigration base.

GUTIERREZ: The ACLU of Arizona says Arpaio lost his 287-G status because of his abuse of power.

POCHODA: He's unconstitutionally acted to racially profile many persons in the community, persons who appear or are Latino.

GUTIERREZ: ACLU attorney Dan Pochoda says Arpaio's high-profile suppression sweeps target all Latinos, legal and illegal. The ACLU has filed a class action lawsuit against him. The sheriff and his department are currently at the center of an investigation by the Department of Justice into allegations of civil rights abuses.

ARPAIO: I got news for all of these critics, all of these politicians, is I'm going to continue to do everything that I have been doing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: All right, so, who do you believe when you hear that argument, the sheriff, who says he's just cleaning house, the people who say he is abusing his authority in this case and directing his efforts at anyone who happens to look Hispanic, or the feds, who say they don't need to give any explanation? They're in control of this legislation, this law.

Well, stay right there. Sheriff Joe Arpaio's going to join me in just a little bit and he's going to take us through this. He's going to obviously give us his side of the story. I will play devil's advocate. That's coming up in just a couple of minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: And we have got people commenting on the governor of South Carolina, as you might imagine. Let's go to MySpace, if we possibly can.

Stacy says, "Was the driver in a rush to get the governor to the airport?"

It's an interesting question that's obviously asked many times.

"Maybe he was going to take another trip to visit his soul mate in Argentina," it goes on to say, "LOL."

This is the kind of controversy the governor knew he would get into, given his past. Interestingly enough, that probably came into his thinking when he decided that he would make sure that this guy was in fact handed a ticket and he would deal with it. All right, let's take -- a quick break in. And then the federal government takes away Sheriff Joe Arpaio's enforcement. Why would he do that? Or why would it do that, I should say? I'm going to ask him. He's going to join me live in just a little bit.

Stay with us. I will be right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: All right, let's not waste any time. Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

Sheriff Joe Arpaio is going to be talking to us about the big issue that has angered him. He thinks the feds are stepping on his jurisdiction. This is Joe Arpaio all by himself as our "Conexion" segment.

All right, there's the man right there, live in Phoenix, the sheriff of Maricopa County, Arizona.

Sheriff Arpaio, thanks so much, sir, for taking time to talk to us.

JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA, SHERIFF: Nice talking to you again, Rick.

SANCHEZ: The feds took your ICE power to investigate and detain people that you think are illegal. You say that's not going to slow you down.

ARPAIO: No, it's not.

SANCHEZ: What are you going to do?

ARPAIO: Keep doing it. I have the state laws to enforce, even the federal law, and we're going to keep doing our job.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: But, as I understand it, they -- and, certainly, I didn't mean to interrupt. I didn't know you were going to be saying something else there, sir.

They gave you permission -- this was a couple years ago, right? You and several other jurisdictions around the country, they all but federally deputized your -- your -- your sheriff's deputies, so that they could go out and make arrests. And now they're rescinding that. They're taking that away. Doesn't that mean that you shouldn't be doing it?

ARPAIO: No. That was just a contract agreement we signed with them. We don't really need that.

We did hold up, what, 32,000 illegals in the jail and on street enforcement? Twenty-five percent of the whole country, we did under that agreement, but they don't want us anymore. That's OK. I'm still going to enforce the human smuggling, the employee sanction.

SANCHEZ: But one of the reasons they don't want you to do it anymore is because there is a suspicion that you have been abusing the civil rights of people by trying to arrest people who actually may be not even illegal immigrants, but maybe to you or your deputies look like illegal immigrants.

ARPAIO: Well, let me tell you something. They just did an audit several months ago. We came out A+ in that audit.

SANCHEZ: Who did the audit?

ARPAIO: Homeland Security did it. But they would not give it out. They would not give me a copy because it makes me look good. The only complaint to the FBI was one person, and that was the mayor of Phoenix.

SANCHEZ: Well, how do you know -- let me ask you a question. How do you know when you arrest someone that they're illegal?

ARPAIO: Well, first of all, Rick, we do it pursuant to our duties. When we come across someone on another crime and we find out that they are illegal, we take action. If those that have not committed a crime, we had the training -- we still do -- we turn them over to ICE. It's very simple.

SANCHEZ: But you just said you detain people who haven't committed a crime. How do you prove that they're not legal?

ARPAIO: It has to do with their conduct, what type of clothes they're wearing, their speech. They admit it. They may have phony IDs, a lot of variables involved.

SANCHEZ: You judge people and arrest them based on their speech and the clothes that they're wearing, sir?

ARPAIO: No, when they're in the vehicle with someone that has committed a crime, we have the right to talk to those people. When they admit they are here illegally, we take action.

SANCHEZ: But you just told me -- let's go back here. You just told me that you arrest a people and turn them over to the Feds even if they haven't committed a crime.

ARPAIO: No. They did commit a crime. They are here illegally.

SANCHEZ: But how did you know they were here illegally? And then you went on to tell me it's because of the clothes they wore.

ARPAIO: Well, you look at the federal law. The federal law specifies the speech, the clothes, the environment, the erratic behavior. It's right in the law.

SANCHEZ: Well, let me ask you a question then. What happens if you detain someone who you think their speech is erratic or their behavior is erratic or their clothes is erratic, and it turns out they just didn't have the I.D. with them, but they're perfectly legal and you've just taken them into some federal detention center and they were able to get out?

ARPAIO: No.

SANCHEZ: I'm sure that's happened.

ARPAIO: No, we don't take them in. We have computers. We do preliminary checks on the streets. We do talk to ICE, and they say go ahead and bring them in. We don't bring them in until we call ICE and they authorize bringing them in.

SANCHEZ: But you've detained, nonetheless -- and pardon me for staying on this -- you've nonetheless potentially detained a perfectly legal American citizen or resident of the United States who you should have left alone.

ARPAIO: We never -- no. Who said that?

SANCHEZ: You just did.

ARPAIO: I didn't say legal.

SANCHEZ: You said you sometimes detain people who are legal.

ARPAIO: No, I said illegal.

SANCHEZ: OK, you detain people who are illegal. How do you know they're illegal other than their clothes and their ratty behavior or their speech pattern?

ARPAIO: Because we have the expertise. Our deputies have been trained for five months by ICE, knowledge on how to interrogate, how to talk to these people.

SANCHEZ: And what if they say I don't have identification with me? I was just, you know, I was jogging or something? Do you take them in under suspicion?

ARPAIO: You're supposed to have identification or driver's license.

SANCHEZ: When you jog?

ARPAIO: Of course. When you drive?

SANCHEZ: No, when you jog, when you're on the street? Not if you're not driving --

ARPAIO: We don't pick them up on the streets. I'm saying pursuant to our duties, enforcing the criminal laws, we come across them, then we take action. You don't go on the street corner and grab them.

SANCHEZ: But then you're charging them with driving without a license. So that makes sense to me. ARPAIO: But if they're illegal, we also hold them in the jail, 32,000, so they can't get back on the street and commit other crimes. We do have a crime problem in Maricopa County.

SANCHEZ: You're not saying that the crime problem is more related to immigrants than it is others, are you?

ARPAIO: Well, I'll tell you one thing, 20 percent of people in jail today, for all different types of crime, murders and everything else, are illegal.

SANCHEZ: So, Hondurans and Mexicans are more apt to commit crimes in the United States than other people?

ARPAIO: I don't know. I mean, that's something that you have to determine. I just said 20 percent -- but what difference does it make? We lock everybody up.

SANCHEZ: Well, it makes a lot of difference, sheriff, and I'll tell you why. When I was in your state several times investigating the situation down there and the tensions between people with the immigration problem, the constant complaint I got about you from people who are of Mexican-American dissent but are American citizens was that this is what they said to me, sir, so take it as you can, as you will -- they said they believe that you hate Mexicans.

ARPAIO: Oh, geez.

SANCHEZ: They believe that you are essentially bigoted toward their culture --

ARPAIO: OK.

SANCHEZ: And that, look, I'm telling you what they told me and I'm not talking about one or two people. I'm talking about en masse, so, let me give you the opportunity to respond to that.

ARPAIO: Well, first of all, I was a regional director of Mexico for four years, head of the Federal Drug Enforcement in Texas and Arizona. I'm not going to get into my personal situation for security reasons, but that's ridiculous.

It's all they can do is bring up the race card, just because I'm doing my job. Where are all the allegations? Where are all the allegations if I'm doing this wrong? A few people have complained? Out of all the arrests -- 33,000 -- so, you get three or four complaints. The Justice Department first 60 days in the Obama administration have gone after me. I'm not going to say they lie, the investigators, but I'll say misinformation. Homeland security, misinformation. So, I can go on and on.

SANCHEZ: Why do you think it's so important to detain, arrest people in the United States who may be here undocumented? Why is that -- why do you seem to be obsessed with that?

ARPAIO: I'm not obsessed with it. We locked up 1,600 illegal aliens on class 4 felonies, the human smuggling law. We raid businesses and we go in there and two-thirds are illegals with phony identification. So, we always come across other crimes, too.

SANCHEZ: You know, it almost seems to me like an American, who would like his borders to be secure, like you, that people like you are putting a lot of the emphasis on the illegal immigrant, when in actuality, it seems like our government and the businesses in this government are all, through a wink and a nod, all but recruiting these people into the country, giving them tax IDs so they can work in this country.

And then when people like you find them, they're treated like the most horrible criminals in the world, when in fact, many of them are doing nothing more -- now stay with me here for a minute -- when in fact, many of them are doing nothing more than trying to earn their keep and trying to earn a living for their country.

Now, aside from the fact that they may be here illegally, do you feel sometimes like you're taking on the most needy, the most desperate, a real easy mark?

ARPAIO: No, no.

SANCHEZ: Why?

ARPAIO: No, because I don't just enforce the law on illegal immigration. We do everything. This just happens to be one program that the legislature gave me $1.6 million to enforce that law, and I'm doing it. I'm utilizing the money from the state to do the job and we are doing a great job, Rick.

SANCHEZ: All right, Sheriff Arpaio. You know what I respect most about you is that every time I call you and ask you to come on, because there's another story having to do with you, and obviously, whenever you and I talk, I always ask you some -- it's always a very confrontational, if not aggressive interview --

ARPAIO: No.

SANCHEZ: You're always there and you always answer the questions, and that takes, I suppose, a certain amount of courage and I respect you --

ARPAIO: No, call me every hour on the hour.

SANCHEZ: Thanks. I appreciate that, Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

ARPAIO: OK, thanks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LOUIE GOHMERT (R), TEXAS: If you're oriented toward animals -- if you're oriented toward corpses or children, some would say it sounds like fun.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: That's a congressman on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives, and yeah, he did just say that. He did just say, "if you're oriented toward animals" or having sex with corpses, having sex with corpses. Having sex with corpses? What is he talking about? In short, he's comparing those people to homosexuals. He's arguing against repealing the military's Don't Ask Don't Tell policy, and that's where he went. That's how he got to bestiality, necrophilia, pedophilia, and you're going to hear the entire statement from him for yourself, and I'll let you be the judge. It's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Wow, a ton of interviews -- a ton of comments are coming in already on my comments, or my interview moments ago with Sheriff Arpaio. Let's start over here on MySpace. "Sheriff Arpaio is really sticking his foot in his mouth and giving himself away subconsciously. I see why the Feds are trying to legally strip him of his power. Innocent people wouldn't be so defensive."

Let's go over here to the Twitter board now. "I'm proud of Sheriff Arpaio. At least he's doing something about the illegal immigration problem. Keep up the good work."

"You're not listening to him," they say about me, this is critical of me, "and just grandstanding." Nice.

"He does pick them up on the street. I was picked up, didn't have my I.D., and sent to a detention center. I am legal. That type of mentality is exactly why people do not trust police. They used to. They have no regard for individual rights."

And finally -- "by the clothing and speech! Damn! If he did that in L.A., half of east L.A. would be locked up! Outrageous!"

My thanks for your comment. I'm sure the sheriff thanks you as well.

He doesn't look like he's in trouble in this shot. My kids call it chillaxing. That's Charlie Rangel, and he's in hot water. Will he lose his powerful position? No, not that position. Coming up, you're going to actually hear for yourself as a Texas congressman compares gay men to sex with corpses and animals and children. And you're going to hear it for yourself.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez trying to bring you our national conversation as we do every day at 3:00. Here in the world headquarters of CNN. I never thought that I would start a segment with the following words, bestiality, necrophilia and phedophilia. Republican Congressman Louie Gohmert of Texas actually said as much this week when he made the argument that sexual orientation should not be a standard for a hate crime. The discussion actually began with him being for don't ask don't tell in the military, and then somehow gravitated toward, well, what I just told you. In fact, you're about to hear it for yourself. I want you to pay particular attention to when he goes on to say what he does, but then he says that some people think that sex with animals and corpses may be fun. Who? Who thinks that? This is "Fotos."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOHMERT: The definition of sexual orientation is wide open to all kinds of interpretation, and some day, some court somewhere will say, you know what, sexual orientation means exactly what those words mean. If you're oriented, I hope it doesn't offend, but this is part of the law, its laws in most states, or has been, certainly, in many states. If you're oriented toward animals, bestiality, then, you know, that's not something that could be used, held against you or any bias be held against you for that, which means you'd have to strike any laws against bestiality. If you're oriented toward corpses, toward children. You know, there are all kinds of perversions, what most of us would call perversions. Some would say, it sounds like fun, but most of us would say were perversions, and there have been laws against them. And this bill says, whatever you're oriented towards sexually, that can not be a source of bias against someone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Illinois. A school for students with special needs. A police officer at the school reprimands a student for having his shirt untucked. The student walks away from the officer, at which point the officer violently slams the kid into the lockers lining the wall. He then continues working the kid over until he gets him to the ground with the help of two other staff members. The 15-year-old was attending the special needs school due to brain injuries he sustained as a child. The boy ended up with a broken nose from the encounter and his parents are considering filing a suit against the school.

Fort Dix, New Jersey, a little girl, just not quite ready to let her daddy go. The father is a staff sergeant in the army reserve. He's being deployed for a year-long tour of Iraq. Couldn't let his -- couldn't get his daughter to accept his good-bye, so he went ahead and marched with her. The commander allowed it. The daughter is a 4- year-old who doesn't care about war or politics or anything else that might send him away. All she knows is that's my daddy and I want to be near him, and that's "Fotos".

Politics, as you know, is a dirty business. Low blows abound, especially in television advertising. But should a guy's weight, should a guy's weight be the center of an ad as this one is? Wait till you see it. Wait till you see it. It's from New Jersey. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. Boy, a lot of you guys are hot under the collar about that congressman comment I showed you just a little while ago. I wish I could show you all the clever and fascinating comments you have sent me. I've been reading them over the break. But for the most part if I showed most of them, although clever and funny, I would probably get in trouble. So, go to my page on my space or go to my twitter page and you're be able to read some of those comments for yourself and enjoy as I did.

All right. I'm about to show you now a fascinating piece of subliminal advertising. If you don't live in New Jersey, you probably haven't had a chance to see it. So, I want you to watch this with me, and I'll shut up now except to say it's supposed to be an ad about a candidate's driving record. See if you can decipher what it's really trying to say here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

If you drove the wrong way down a one-way street, causing an accident and putting the victim in a trauma center, would you get away without a ticket? Chris Christie did. If you were caught speeding in an unregistered car, would you get away without points? Chris Christie did. In both cases Christie threw his weight around as U.S. Attorney and got off easy. If you didn't pay your taxes, ignored ethics laws, would you get away with it? Chris Christie, one set of rules for himself, another for everyone else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: What do you think is really being said there? What do you think is really going on? I'm not going to tell you. But I'm going to let Patricia Murphy tell you when she comes back, or when I come back with her in just a little bit. She's our expert political guru. And she's good at this kind of stuff. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: I asked you to think about that ad, the one I just showed you a moment ago. I'm going to show it to you again. And this time keep your eyes and ears open about the message is being delivered about Republican Chris Christie. He's the candidate for governor of New Jersey.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

If you drove the wrong way down a one-way street, causing an accident and putting the victim in a trauma center, would you get away without a ticket? Chris Christie did. If you were caught speeding in an unregistered car, would you get away without points? Chris Christie did. In both cases Christie threw his weight around as U.S. Attorney and got off easy. If you didn't pay your taxes, ignored ethics laws, would you get away with it? Chris Christie, one set of rules for himself, another for everyone else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: He's a Republican Chris Christie is. After seeing that ad, what do you think about Chris Christie? Do you think he's a really bad driver who's made some mistakes? By the way, we've all made mistake driving who hasn't got the ticket, right? That as a U.S. Attorney he may have misused his office? Anything else?

Well, here's the message that seems to be there as well. It may have something to do with his weight. Do you think? I mean, I'm asking. Is that what you heard? It says he threw his weight around. And now there's the picture soon after that of him getting out of the car. It's not a flattering shot. But what does it have to do with being governor, by the way? Whether he perhaps has -- carries a few extra pounds on him? The ad is being run by the incumbent governor of New Jersey, Jon Corzine. Corzine has been behind in the race, but now as Election Day nears, he appears magically, after a series of ads like this one, to be catching up. To be doing very well. In fact, I was just handed something. Let me introduce our guest. The best.

Patricia Murphy, columnist for politicsdaily.com. Murphy, how are you?

PATRICIA MURPHY, COLUMNIST, POLITICSDAILY.COM: I'm great. How are you?

SANCHEZ: Gary just handed me something. In a recent survey conducted by Mount University, voters were asked to say the first thing that came to mind about Mr. Christie. He just handed me this, Gary did. Let me just make sure I'm right. Fat. This is what the report says. Fat was one of the most frequent responses, says Patrick Murray, the director of the poll who attributed the results to the Corzine ads. What do you make of that?

MURPHY: You know, first of all we all know that there is advertising and there is subliminal advertising. We also all know that there is a bias in this country against overweight people. There are a lot of negative associations with people who are overweight. They have to fight against that every day. So there is one message being sent about Chris Christie's voting record or driving record, rather. There's another one being sent about his personal qualifications. Does he work hard? Is he trustworthy? Does this look like somebody you want to represent you? It's not fair. It's ugly. It's about as clean as it gets in Jersey politics, though, I have to say.

SANCHEZ: Really? You're saying it's about as clean as it gets for Jersey politics. So this is the kind of thing folks up there have come to expect? Well, he's an incumbent governor by the way, he's not two guys coming from nowhere. He is the incumbent governor. It just seems a little, it just seems a little below the belt.

MURPHY: It seems to below the belt but he's behind in the polls. This is desperation ...

SANCHEZ: Not anymore.

MURPHY: You have to get ahead.

SANCHEZ: He's getting ahead real quick with these ads. What a shame.

MURPHY: Listen to why I think this could easily backfire. This is about Chris Christie's driving record. Jon Corzine, the governor, was in a very high profile car accident in 2007, not wearing his seat belt, going 90 miles an hour. Didn't get a ticket at the time. And later got a ticket for not wearing his seat belt. But it was a major, major black mark against him. And seen as him not following the rules. So, I don't know why they would go against Christie on this message in particular. It's one of the worst moments of the Corzine govern ship.

SANCHEZ: Well, we have 30 seconds left but I want to show you another thing that might be regarded as an unflattering picture. You're going to be talking about this now as we go to cnn.com/live. That's Charlie Rangel. Charlie Rangel's have a personality of being a spit fire. But he's also in trouble. I'm going to tell you why he's in trouble in just a little bit as we continue on cnn.com/live with the Murphster. But here first, is the Wolfster. Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM"

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Rick, thanks very much.