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U.S. Focuses on Pakistan; GOP Attempts to Oust Rangel; Strategizing for Afghanistan Continues; Male Breast Cancer Patients Found in Camp Lejeune; Arizona Sheriff Uses Controversial Methods to Detect, Arrest Illegal Immigrants; Study Lists Hated Common Words, Phrases; Michelle Obama's Roots; Lunar-tic Mission

Aired October 08, 2009 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome once again to the show. It's Thursday, October 8th on this AMERICAN MORNING. I'm Kiran Chetry.

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. I'm John Roberts. Thanks for being with us.

Here are the big stories that we'll be telling you about in the next 15 minutes. The White House reportedly considering a change in war strategy, with more emphasis on Pakistan and the pursuit of al Qaeda and less of a focus on the Taliban and Afghanistan. But Jill Dougherty reports that getting Pakistan to trust the United States could be a challenge.

CHETRY: Well, more calls from House Republicans for New York Congressman, Democratic Congressman, Charlie Rangel to step down as the chairman of the powerful committee that writes tax laws. The heat is on after a year-long ethics investigation into his finances and activities. House Democrats voting yesterday to shut off debate about it and send the resolution to the House Ethics Committee.

So what happens now? Well, Brianna Keilar is tracking this one from DC.

ROBERTS: Plus, male breast cancer. It's a rare disease, but a growing number of Marines are coming forward, telling CNN their story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not drink. I do not smoke. I was diagnosed at the age of 39. There is no history of breast cancer anywhere in my family, male or female. I was exposed while my mother was pregnant with me, to chemicals in the drinking water. I was poisoned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: The Marines and their families say they were poisoned by toxic water. Our special investigations unit has this story, a story that you'll only see on CNN.

We begin the hour, though, with a deadly car bombing outside the Indian embassy in Afghanistan. The Taliban is now taking credit for this morning's attack that killed 12 people. Dozens more were injured.

Here at home, the president is a studying a request from his top general for more troops in the region while his national security team discusses shifting the focus of the war from Afghanistan to Pakistan. Controlling Pakistan's border with Afghanistan is critical to winning the war there.

Our foreign affairs correspondent Jill Dougherty is live for us from Washington this morning.

And, Jill, we had the Pakistani ambassador on just a little while. He insists that they're going after these militants in the border regions, that wild Northwestern Frontier, but getting further cooperation on that front from the United States may be a little difficult.

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely right, John. You know, President Obama says you can't win in Afghanistan without the help of Pakistan. And it's not only the military's side of it, the Pakistan government's efforts to fight al Qaeda and the Taliban; there's also the political side of it. The relationship between the U.S. and Pakistan goes back many years and like many old relationships, it's seen periods of stress and strain and this is one of them.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DOUGHERTY (voice-over): The mountainous and porous border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, where terrorists find sanctuary. Stark symbol of why President Barack Obama believes the U.S. cannot win in Afghanistan without commitment from Pakistan.

ROBERT GATES, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The Afghan/Pakistan border is the modern epicenter of jihad.

DOUGHERTY: But in Pakistan, there's doubt the U.S. is committed to the long haul.

SHAH MEHMOOD QURESHI, PAKISTANI FOREIGN MINISTER: The people of the region have to be reassured that the United States has a long-term vision -- not just for Afghanistan and Pakistan, but the entire region. And when I say that, we have to keep in mind history.

DOUGHERTY: Nearly 30 years ago, the U.S. partnered with Pakistan, supplying mujahadeen fighters with weapons and training to defeat the Soviet Union in Afghanistan.

HILLARY CLINTON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We left. And Pakistan feels like we left them holding the bag, because, all of a sudden, they were awash in weapons, they were awash in drugs; jihadists, who had been trained up in conjunction with us.

DOUGHERTY: Clinton and Defense Secretary Robert Gates insist the U.S. won't repeat the mistakes of the past.

GATES: There should be no uncertainty in terms of our determination to remain in Afghanistan and to continue to build a relationship of partnership and trust with the Pakistanis.

DOUGHERTY: But the U.S. has its own lingering doubts: whether Pakistan is a reliable partner; whether its military intelligence is linked to terrorist organizations; whether its obsession with threats from India diverts it from fighting terrorism.

The Obama administration is tripling economic and social aid to Pakistan, $1.5 billion a year for the next five years, but only on a condition that its president, Asif Ali Zardari pursues terrorists in his own country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOUGHERTY: And in this spiral of doubt and reassurances, Pakistan says, by making demands like that, the U.S. is interfering in its internal affairs -- John, Kiran.

ROBERTS: Jill Dougherty for us this morning -- Jill, thanks so much.

The war in Afghanistan and what to do next has got a lot of you sounding off on our show hotline.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CALLER: This war in Afghanistan is turning into a big joke. It's just an opportunity for the military to flex their muscles. No one has ever won in Afghanistan.

CALLER: I don't believe that the U.S. people want less troops. I believe we want more troops in over there, to help out the troops that we have.

CALLER: The main question is: what makes us think that we can take the same amount of troops that the Russians had over there and do a better job, where they didn't? I think that it's a failed mission. I think that we should stop before we get in to deep.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

ROBERTS: Got something to say? We want to hear from you. Just call our show hotline at 1-877-MY-AMFIX. You can also sound off in our blog at CNN.com/amFIX.

In just about 10 minutes time, we're going to be talking about President Obama's handling of everything from health care to the war in Afghanistan with Democratic strategist James Carville and Republican strategist Ed Rollins.

CHETRY: And to Capitol Hill now, where Republicans want to strip the top lawmaker in charge of writing tax laws from his position.

Democratic Congressman Charlie Rangel chairs the House Ways and Means Committee. He's now in a middle of a year-long ethics investigation. He's charged with not claiming hundreds of thousands of dollars in assets. He's already admitted that he does owe Uncle Sam some cash.

Brianna Keilar joins us live from D.C.

And, yesterday, as we said, Republicans tried to bring this out there for a vote once again and Democrats were able to move back to the ethics committee. But, basically, what is going on here in terms of the pressure increasing on Congressman Rangel?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this resolution, though designed to increase pressure on him, and on Democrats, did not pass. And Kiran, Republicans weren't expecting it to.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR (voice-over): Republicans' third attempt in a year to bump the Democratic chairman of the House Tax Writing Committee from his powerful perch.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This will be a 15-minute vote.

KEILAR: It failed but they made their point, keeping a spotlight on Charles Rangel's acknowledged failure to pay taxes on $75,000 he earned renting out his beach house in the Dominican Republic, and there are several other alleged ethics related violations.

REP. JOHN CARTER (R), TEXAS: Representative Rangel acknowledged his failure to pay -- to publicly disclose at least half a million dollars in cash assets, tens of thousands of dollars in investment income, and his ownership of two pieces of property in New Jersey.

KEILAR: Rangel has called some of the violations mistakes. As the ethics committee continues its year-long investigation, Rangel continues to defend his post on the committee that's instrumental in drafting legislation on important issues like health care reform and climate change.

QUESTION: Will you continue to serve as chairman with that ethics investigation?

RANGEL: Yes, I can. The way it works in the House is that when allegations are made and referred to the ethics committee, what is normally done is members wait until the ethics committee completes its investigation and its report.

KEILAR: Rangel has the backing of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: We have asked for the investigation. We all support the investigation. In the end, the ethics process works its way.

KEILAR: And her deputy, Steny Hoyer, says Democrats are awaiting the ethics committee's findings.

REP. STENY HOYER (D-MD), MAJORITY LEADER: Prior to that, any actions with reference to Chairman Rangel would be premature. KEILAR: But as Republicans keep up their steady drumbeat against Rangel, political analyst Stephen Hess says he has become a liability for Democrats.

STEPHEN HESS, BOOKINGS INSTITUTION: These charges are serious. They're -- and they keep adding more charges. So, they are going to have to be met and dealt with and voted upon. They can't be swept under the table.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: But for now, Hess says this is a minor liability for Democrats, though it does give Republicans an opportunity, and it's one that they're relishing. Kiran, Republican sources I've spoken with say, this is a win-win for them. If Democrats stand behind Rangel and he holds on to his chairmanship, they can keep taking shots at him. And if he's bumped from his post, well, then they can claim victory over that, Kiran.

CHETRY: Brianna Keilar for us this morning on Capitol Hill, thanks.

ROBERTS: Also new this morning, a new study shows that airport delays are twice as bad as they were two decades ago. The Brookings Institution says the biggest problem: lots of quick flights between the country's biggest cities like New York, Chicago, and Atlanta. Now, I know what you're saying. Didn't you tell us yesterday that there are more flights that are on time? Yes, there are more flights on time these days, but it's much worse than it was 20 years ago.

CHETRY: There you go.

Well, we can all breathe a little easier this morning, because NASA now downgrading the threat of a large asteroid striking the planet. The scientists had originally estimated there was a 1 in 45,000 chance that an asteroid could hit the earth on April 14th, 2036. Now, after further review, they have determined that the odds are 1 in 250,000.

ROBERTS: Close call.

And then there's this -- America has decided to bomb the moon. Now, lest you think that the Pentagon has gone bonkers, tomorrow morning, NASA is going to crash a rocket into the surface of the moon's south pole and then analyze the debris to see just how much water or ice there might be trapped underneath the dust and rocks of the lunar surface. NASA says it is going to be visible with a telescope here on Earth.

CHETRY: Oh, that's pretty cool.

ROBERTS: Uh-huh.

CHETRY: All right. Well, still ahead, we're going to be talking about all of the hot topics going on right now -- from Afghanistan and whether or not the president's made a decision about troop levels, to the ongoing health care debate. As Brianna just told us, a little bit of hot water for Charlie Rangel. How all of this is playing in Washington and on Main Street?

Ed Rollins and James Carville, two of our favorite strategist, joining us live in just a moment.

It's 10 minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC)

CHETRY: We have a shot of our nation's capital today. Thirteen minutes past the hour. It's mostly cloudy right now, 52. But a little bit later, sunny, going up to 20 degrees, to a high of 72 in Washington.

And welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.

You know, it's a bit of a mixed bag for President Obama right now. For the first time since his inauguration, an AP poll shows that his approval ratings are rising. But still, a majority of Americans are very concerned about how he's handling the economy, Afghanistan, and health care.

Here to talk about all of that with us is Ed Rollins, Republican strategist and CNN senior political analyst; and also, Democratic strategist James Carville, a CNN political contributor who joins us from New Orleans.

Good morning to both of you. Great to have you both with us.

JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Good morning.

CHETRY: And, James, let me start with you about the Afghanistan situation. The president, as we know, is holding meetings all this week and there's been word that he may seek the middle ground, looking to send troops, but not the 40,000 that has been recommended by the commander on the ground. Is he trying to have it both ways?

CARVILLE: Well, I don't know. I mean, I guess, you know, he's got to listen to a lot of different constituencies. I'm sure that the commander asked for more than he thinks he needs, under the assumption, as people often do, that he would get some more. He's got to listen to a lot of different people.

And we'll see where it comes down, but they have a pretty intense review going on in the Afghanistan policy. We've been there for eight years. It doesn't look like it's going all that great, it seems to me. I don't know what the uproar is about. It seems to me to make a heck of a lot of sense to review where we are and determine if our strategy is working and if it's not working, how can we improve it? It makes a lot of sense to me, maybe I'm different.

CHETRY: Well, the president has said, Ed, that it's better to do it right than do it fast. But you think that he's taking too long to make a decision on Afghanistan.

ED ROLLINS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: All I want to say is that a strategy was set. They have these meetings prior to March when the president first came in. He came out with a new strategy and the strategy was to go to a counterinsurgency.

He changed his general. He picked McChrystal, asked McChrystal to go there and do an assessment and come back and tell him what tactics are needed to implement the original strategy -- which was a change from chasing terrorists to basically protecting the people of this -- of the thing.

Now we're reviewing the strategy again. And I think that's what's got McChrystal and everybody else sort of in a different, different place. If he wants to change the strategy after three or four months, that's certainly his prerogative, but at the end of the day, it's not an easy battle under any circumstance.

CHETRY: And James, I mean part of it is what -- what may work on the ground to win a military option, may not be the smartest thing to pick in the political world. I mean, the support for the Afghan war has been dropping, as we've seen in poll after poll. And so does that complicate things for the president?

CARVILLE: Enormously. I mean, you have a president that's now, you know, dealing with what was never -- you know, what was at one time a very popular war, but support for it deteriorated over a period of time. And that makes it very complicated. By the way, makes it very complicated in the Congress. Just in, at the end of the day, there's one conclusion left. There is a very, very hard job.

ROBERTS: Totally agree.

CHETRY: There, you agree on that one. And you know what guys, here's the other hard issue right now, and that's the huge challenge of reforming health care and the debate going on. And we have a little bit of an update on the Baucus bill. This is the one in the Senate that people said perhaps has the best chance of bipartisanship. Congressional budget office came out again, and now they say that it will cost $829 billion over the next decade, if it's implemented, but that it will also reduce the federal deficit by $81 billion. Will this help in getting any Republicans on board?

ROLLINS: I'm not sure. This is the best bill of all and there's five other bills obviously all left in the house and another bill in the Senate and it all has to come together. This is a draft of a bill, hasn't been voted on yet. At the end of the day, even this bill, that meets all the measures the president laid out, there's still a $500 billion cut in Medicare, which obviously isn't going to make seniors very happy, and also a $400 billion tax increase, which is not going to make a lot of people -- at the end of the day, if you have health insurance, you're going to have to pay more for your health insurance to pay for those that don't have health insurance. So it's still a big battleground to go here.

CHETRY: What do you think, James? Are we getting closer? I mean at least the congressional budget office is saying that it lead to a net savings, which is not the case about what they were saying about the house bill a month ago.

CARVILLE: Right -- $81 billion I think covers up 25 - 30 million people. So if it's saving money and covering more people, I suspect I'm supposed to be against it, I just don't know the reason yet. But I'm sure glad to survive in one. But they're going to merge a lot of these bills together. And look, you've got Senator Dole coming up, governor Schwarzenegger, Senator Frist saying he's got a problem with some of the legislation, but he'll probably end up supporting something. The problem is, if you're a Republican, you can't support anything that this president does, because you'll get primaried and you'll lose. So I just don't think there's much possibility for Republicans to vote for this. Maybe a couple in the Senate, but that's about it. Anybody else that does that, the Republican party's not going to allow that to happen.

CHETRY: You know, you talked about losing and a lot of this is through the prism of the 2010 midterm elections that are coming up soon, but I want to ask you about Charlie Rangel right now, the Congressman who's facing a lot of heat because of this ethics investigation. Yesterday, the GOP tried to bring that back out to the floor again and the democratic leadership basically was able to get it sent back to the ethics community. Is that going to be a liability coming up in these elections, James?

CARVILLE: Very well could. And it better take all of this ethical stuff dead seriously. Because if the public has any sense that one of the things that got the Republicans turned out because they had a lot of these scuzzy ethics things that were going on. I don't know the facts on Senator Rangel, but the ethics committee should expedite and should have a report and when they get that report, they should deal with it. And the speaker house leadership should deal with it in a way that's constant with its findings. The same thing's true in the Senate with Senator Ensign. But if these Democrats think that they're going to be able to just go along and look the other way at some of this stuff, then we're going to have a tough 2010, no matter what. We're going to have an even tougher 2010. There are a lot of people in this political party that have very low tolerance of this. We think that we respect the interest of people who are trying to mistake it and we ought to be held to a standard that is high. And this thing, it has a bad odor to it.

ROLLINS: Well, the speaker -- the problem is, Charlie is very popular, has been there for 40 years. Everybody likes Charlie Rangel, a very powerful man. He was critical in getting Nancy Pelosi elected. He would have supported Steny Hoyer. At the end of the day, she has promised that this congress is going to be different and she's got to live up to that. I'm more than willing to be..

CARVILLE: Let's be fair. Let's be fair. Let's be fair. Now, I'm a big admirer of this speaker, by the way, I love this speaker. But she's got another tough job too. But somebody needs to light a fire under the ethics committee. They've studied this thing

ROLLINS: I would have said the same thing if you'd let me finished. I think the bottom line here, unlike the motion that was made yesterday; I'm more than willing to let the ethics committee come forward with their hearing, which is traditionally what's happen. But they better act on it. If it's a serious charge, which obviously, all I know is what I've read in the newspaper, the chairman of the ways and means -- I think the bottom line here, unlike the motion that was made yesterday, I'm more than willing to let the ethics committee come forward with their hearing, but they better act on it. If it's a serious charge, which obviously, all I know is what I've read in the newspaper, the chairman of the ways and means committee has to be held to a higher standard.

CHETRY: Alright well we'll have to see how that goes.

CARVILLE: You and I agree, Ed.

CHETRY: Oh you see that, two things!

CARVILLE: I'm sorry for interrupting you when you agreeing with me. I apologize.

CHETRY: Well it's great to talk with both of you, Ed Rollins and James Carville, as always thanks.

ROBERTS: He'll make it up to you Ed, maybe tickets to the 2013 super bowl, what do you think?

ROLLINS: I hope so.

ROBERTS: His New Orleans team beat my Saints -- or beat my Jets. I don't know how long that will last.

So, Sheriff Joe Arpaio, Maricopa County sheriff, has been out on the streets for the past few years trying to corral, if you will, people who are in this country illegally. Well, the federal government has now clipped his wings, saying he can't do that anymore. So what does the sheriff plan to do now? We'll talk to him live, straight ahead. Twenty-one minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Gorgeous morning out there. Columbus Circle outside the time Warner center this morning, our world headquarters here at CNN. Sunny at 53 degrees right now. Later on, mostly sunny with a high of 68. Another beautiful day in the city. And thankfully, without all that wind we had yesterday. Oh, my goodness.

CHETRY: I know.

ROBERTS: If you weighed any less than 140 pounds, you would blow way.

CHETRY: Exactly.

ROBERTS: If you're putting money away for college through 529 savings plan, you need to hear this. The government is proposing some changes to those plans. CHETRY: Yes what it could mean for your money and your savings for your children. Personal finance editor Gerri Willis is here with details. So what do we need to know?

GERRI WILLIS, CNN PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR: OK, well first of all, this is good news. You know, 529 plans are just college savings plans, critical to particularly middle-class people with college kids. And a report released last month, the Treasury Department had a few suggestions on how to tweak those plans so they're more affordable. Now here's some of their ideas out there. A, number one, they want to use more low-cost index funds. This is great news, because it will reduce the cost of your 529 and allow you to take home more of your returns.

Secondly, and this is really critical, they want to eliminate what they call home state tax breaks. Basically, what this means is different states want you to keep your money at home. These programs are all offered by states. Some of them will not give you the tax break if you actually buy a 529 in some other state. They want to get rid of that so it will be easier for people to use these investment vehicles. And they want to cap contributions. And this is good news, because some people out there are sort of abusing the 529 plan by putting a lot of money away. They want to get rid of that so everybody, more low and middle-income families can use these programs.

ROBERTS: How do they abuse it because it doesn't it have to specifically, be used for college?

WILLIS: It does, indeed, but some people are putting lots and lots of money away in these plans and they think it's more than they need for education. They're sheltering a lot of money in these plans, so they want to make sure to cut back on that. Because when they do that, there's more money available for low and middle income families.

ROBERTS: Right, well 529s certainly are good things. It's nice when your child goes to college to have all that money sitting there.

WILLIS: Absolutely and you know there's some thought out there that this thing I was talking to you about -- state tax breaks that that was not going to go over well. Treasury wants to make that happen but the problem is the states want to keep all of this to themselves, right. It's a good thing for them so the likelihood that they're going to make these changes are not high. Good news is those low cost funds are already being used 529.

ROBERTS: Gerri Willis looking after you this morning. Gerri, thanks so much.

WILLIS: My pleasure.

ROBERTS: So here's a story, this is a really important story and it's a shocking story as well. There is a cancer cluster. A breast cancer cluster. Where is it? It's in Camp Lejeune, the marine base. But who is it among? Men. What's going on here? We'll try to find out. 26 minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: Twenty-eight minutes past the hour. Welcome back to the most news in the morning. It's a story you'll see only on CNN. A growing number of marines who is served at Camp Lejeune are now being diagnosed with male breast cancer. The men, they say, as well as their families, were poisoned on the base.

ROBERTS: And since our first report on this aired, the number of men coming forward as now doubled. A follow-up from our Abbie Boudreau with our special investigations unit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABBIE BOUDREAU, CNN INVESTIGATIVE UNIT CORRESPONDENT: These are the faces of a rare disease, male breast cancer. Marines or children of marines who believe their illnesses came from drinking and bathing in toxic tap water at Camp Lejeune, decades ago. Within two weeks after CNN's story first aired, the number of men coming forward with this disease has nearly doubled. The total is now 40 -- all marines or their children.

MIKE PARTAIN, SON OF MARINE: That's blown me away. I expected to find some, but to double our number with just one story, and it begs to ask, how many people are out there with male breast cancer from Camp Lejeune?

BOUDREAU: Mike Partain was one of those we first interviewed. As a result of the story, he's been asked to testify before the U.S. Senate Veterans Affairs Committee this week. Partain was born at Camp Lejeune 40 years ago.

PARTAIN: I do not drink, I do not smoke. I was diagnosed at the age of 39. There is no history of breast cancer anywhere in my family, male or female. I was exposed while my mother was pregnant with me to chemicals in the drinking water. I was poisoned.

BOUDREAU: Representative John Dingell has long pushed for clean up and accountability for contaminated military sites, including Camp Lejeune.

REP. JOHN DINGELL, (D) MICHIGAN: Well, it's an outrage. Frankly, it should not be permitted. And it's an act of deceit and dishonesty, irresponsibility of the environmental concerns, and quite honestly, putting their people at risk.

BOUDREAU: The marine corps says drinking water at Camp Lejeune is now cleaned up but acknowledging it was badly contaminated. In a written statement, the marines point out that several scientific studies have not identified a link between exposure to the historically impacted water at Camp Lejeune and adverse health effects.

With no proven link, many of those who are sick are denied V.A. benefits. Senator Kay Hagen from North Carolina, where Camp Lejeune is located, says these people deserve help. SEN. KAY HAGAN (D), NORTH CAROLINA: I think they've worked their entire careers, successfully completing the mission that they were asked to start. And I think it should be our mission to give them complete answers on the water contamination issues. And if we stop now, our mission will not be accomplished.

BOUDREAU: Partain says that would be a start.

MARK PARTAIN, SON OF MARINE: It is up to the Senate and up to Congress to force the Marine Corps to answer these questions and hold their feet to the fire when they give them the answers and make them explain their answers. That's the only way we're going to get to the bottom of the truth of this.

BOUDREAU: Senator Hagen has just sponsored a bill that would give V.A. medical benefits to marines and their families who may have been exposed to contaminated water at Camp Lejeune.

Abbie Boudreau, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTS: And we're crossing the half hour now.

And checking our top stories, we're watching what has been a gold rush on wall street. In fact, the market for the precious metal just opening now. The price for gold pushed into record territory again yesterday, surging more than $4 to $1,000 an ounce. The climb coming after concerns of inflation and a weak U.S. dollar.

Overnight gold was up in electronic trading.

CHETRY: It's being called one of the largest cybercrime busts in FBI history, with 100 people in the U.S. and Egypt now charged in an identity theft scam.

Authorities say that the accused hacking ring duped about 5,000 Americans into handing over their personal information after receiving phony e-mails. It's a crime known as phishing. The victims lost more than $2 million.

ROBERTS: An undercover gun show sting in three states appears to catch dealers selling weapons to buyers who admit that they could not pass background checks. That's a violation of federal law.

The investigation was commissioned by New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg. He says the so-called "gun show loophole" makes it easier for criminals to get their hands on weapons.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So no background check, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, that's right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good, because I probably couldn't pass one. (LAUGHTER)

MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, (D) MAYOR, NEW YORK CITY: This is real. This translates into people getting killed, children, adults, police officers, civilians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: Bloomberg's investigation found that 19 of the 30 gun show dealers they dealt with failed to test. He is sending a copy of his report to every member of Congress.

Well, there is a reason he likes to call himself the toughest sheriff in America. Arizona sheriff Joe Arpaio has made a reputation for himself by cracking down on illegal immigrants, whether the Obama administration wants him to or not.

Well, now the sheriff is in a fierce face-off after the feds revoked his authority to make those arrests. And as you can imagine, Sheriff Arpaio is not backing down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA: I've got news for all of these critics, all of these politicians -- I'm going to continue to do everything I've been doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: So what prompted all of this? Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio joins us this morning from Phoenix. Sheriff, good to see you this morning.

So the Department of Homeland Security stripped you of your authority to arrest suspected illegal immigrants based solely on their immigration status. The Department of Justice, other federal agencies looking into possible racial profiling. There's a lawsuit pending by the ACLU.

It seems that there's growing dissent against what you've done. And our question this morning is what do you plan to do in the wake of all of this?

ARPAIO: I'm going to continue doing what I'm doing. We have a state law, even a federal law that I can enforce. So nothing is going to change.

The audit that the Homeland Security did, which they refused to give me, was an A-plus. We're doing nothing wrong. This is all politics, and they're not going to keep me from doing my job.

ROBERTS: So, Sheriff, the allegations of racial profiling revolve around the charge that you will stop and check out anyone who appears to be Hispanic, whether or not you suspect them of illegal activity or not. Did that program go too far? ARPAIO: No, it did not. We do not go on street corners and grab people that look like they're from another country. Pursuant to our duties, when we come across illegals, we take action.

So, this is garbage. It's all geared to keep me from doing my job. Washington, the White House, the attorney general of the United States, Homeland Security, they just don't want this sheriff to enforce the illegal immigration laws and we've -- what, 32,000 -- 32,000 we have investigated and kept in jail, on the streets, in the jail, 25 percent of the whole country.

So, why are they not giving me an award, but trying to take the authority away from me?

ROBERTS: Let me ask you this. Why would you think that they would not want you to enforce immigration laws?

ARPAIO: Because, they don't want to aggravate the Hispanic community, aggravate the businesspeople who hire the illegals. And they want amnesty. That's what we're going towards, amnesty.

ROBERTS: Well, that would be as part of a comprehensive immigration bill.

ARPAIO: OK. Sure, you can call it whatever name you want. But these people that come into our country are doing it illegally and they should be brought to justice.

ROBERTS: Now, the county board of supervisors says that you can still check the immigration status of people who are already in jail. They sort of tore up half of this agreement that they had with the Department of Homeland Security and have signed on to the bottom half, which allows you to do that in jail. Have you signed on to that?

ARPAIO: I signed on to the comprehensive, if you want to call it that, for the streets and the jails.

But when I did, they thought I would never sign the agreement. I did. I fooled them. They sent a top guy down here and gave me the message that they would only sign off on the jail portion and not the street portion. So you can see the politics coming down the line.

ROBERTS: All right. So they could have stripped you of all authority, but they did leave you with something. Is being able to check out people who are already under arrest and in jail not enough for you?

ARPAIO: No. No. Why can't I enforce the laws on the streets? But I'm going to do it anyway. We have state laws, and nothing's going to change. That's the ironic part of all this. I'm going to continue my operations with no changes.

ROBERTS: And how will you conduct those operations? I know that a lot of people have been stopped for suspected traffic violations, and then their immigration status has been checked out. A lot of people say that that's a premise to do this. So how will you conduct your operations in the future?

ARPAIO: Same way. We do enforce traffic violations. All law enforcement do that, and come across some serious criminals, which we do in our crime suppression.

We go into workplaces under a state law and we arrest people in the workplace there illegally with identity theft situations.

And the human smuggling, we're locking up people coming into our county. We're the only ones doing it. So when you grab 1,600 felonies coming in, and we're the only ones doing it. So what's going on around here? People have -- took an oath of office to enforce the law.

ROBERTS: Now, other counties and police agencies across the country, New Jersey, Massachusetts, for example, are terminating their agreements, these so-called 287Gs with the Department of Homeland Security because they don't think it's their purview to be engaged in immigration enforcement.

The police chief, Steven Carl from Framingham, Massachusetts, said "It doesn't benefit the police department to engage in deportation and immigration enforcement. We're done. I told them to come and get their computers."

Does it make sense to you, sheriff, that local police should be engaged in these immigration sweeps, or should that be left to Immigration and Customs Enforcement?

ARPAIO: Being an ex-federal guy myself, an official, we enforce federal laws every day. Bank robbery, I can go on and on. Why are not we enforcing immigration laws?

But these people, even police chiefs, have pressure from higher- ups. They just do not want to arrest illegal aliens. That's the bottom line, for political reasons.

ROBERTS: Sheriff Joe Arpaio, it's always interesting to catch up with you. Thanks for coming on with us this morning. Much appreciated.

ARPAIO: Thank you.

ROBERTS: And a program reminder that coming up on October 21st and 22nd, CNN presents "LATINO IN AMERICA." It's an in-depth look at how Latinos are changing the nation, reshaping politics, schools, businesses, churches, and neighborhoods. See it here only on CNN.

CHETRY: And we'll take a quick break. When we come back, we'll be tracing first lady Michelle Obama's roots, five generations, going from slavery to the White House. It's a fascinating look.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: It's 43 minutes past the hour. They're like nails on a chalkboard, or in my case, folding paper. It gets under your skin. There's a new poll from the Marris College that ranks -- don't do it -- that ranks the phrases that Americans hate. And topping the list, "whatever."

ROBERTS: "You know," "it's what it is," "at the end of the day," "anyways." There, we just made a whole sentence. Some of the other hated phrases, like "like." And we did a little digging around and found as a nation, we just can't help using them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But at the end of the day...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, you know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anyway.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

See that. Even the little ones are using it. My daughter has not said "whatever" yet, thank goodness.

(WEATHER REPORT)

ROBERTS: All right Rob, thanks so much. 46 minutes after the hour.

From a girl born into slavery in the 1840s now to first lady of the United States -- tracing Michelle Obama's roots. It's a fascinating journey and we'll have that for you next.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.

A new investigation by "The New York Times" traced first lady Michelle Obama's family roots. And something surprising was uncovered, a direct link from America's ugly legacy of slavery, all the way to the White House.

Joining me now with more on all of this is Rachel Swarns, she's one of "The Times" reporters who co-wrote this story.

Rachel, you've worked together with a genealogist, Megan Smolenyak to uncover Michelle Obama's roots. You traced them back to the 1940s. A young girl named Melvinia Shields in South Carolina.

Tell us a little bit of a story. Who was Melvinia? How did she have children? How did this whole legacy get going?

RACHEL SWARNS, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Well, Melvinia was a slave girl, and she was Michelle Obama's great- great-great grandmother. And she first appears in the public records that we were able to find in 1850 when her owner, a farmer in South Carolina, a man by the name of David Paterson, mentions her in his will.

And he basically says that he's leaving her, bequeathing her six- year-old girl to his heirs. And she's valued a couple of years later at $475 and shipped off to his daughter in Georgia.

ROBERTS: Now, at some point, she had children with an unknown man, but it's widely believed that he was white.

SWARNS: That's right. And so we were able to find the first link to a white ancestor in Michelle Obama's family.

ROBERTS: But we don't know who this man was?

SWARNS: We don't know who he was. What we know is that Melvinia had a son sometime around 1859 and that in the 1870 census, he's described as mulatto. His name Dolphus Shields (ph). We can speculate a little bit about who the man might have been, but we really don't know. She was -- in 1859, she was living on the Shields farm.

Henry Shields, her owner, was in his 40s. He had several sons who were around, but there may have been people working on the farm, visitors there. We just don't know who that person was.

ROBERTS: Well, let's talk a little bit about Dolphus Shields then. Because you traveled down to Birmingham, Alabama to speak with a woman named Bobby Holt (ph), who was raised by Dolphus Shields...

SWARNS: That's right.

ROBERTS: ... and his fourth wife. What did you learn about Dolphus from Bobby?

SWARNS: Well, Dolphus Shields is the biracial son of Melvinia and the unknown white man. He travels to Birmingham sometime in the late 1880s and he really carries his family line into the working class.

Unlike his mother who was illiterate, he could read and write and he had a skill. He was a carpenter. And I was very lucky to be able to find a couple of older ladies who knew him, including Bobby Shields. Bobby Shields was taken -- Bobby Holt, I'm sorry.

Bobby Holt was taken into his family when she was about 2 years old. And he was an old man then; he was in his 70s. But he and his fourth wife raised her. And she remembers him as a very religious man, a very upright guy who had a lot of rules in his house.

ROBERTS: Yes and in fact, let me just pull out a little bit of what you wrote about him. And what actually Bobby said about him. She said, quote, "In his home there was no smoking, no cursing, no gum chewing, no lipstick or trousers for ladies and absolutely no blues on the radio, which was reserved for hymns."

SWARNS: No blues.

ROBERTS: A strict and reverent man.

SWARNS: Very much so. And he founded a number of -- helped found a number of churches that still exist in Birmingham today, including Trinity Baptist Church and First Ebenezer Baptist Church.

ROBERTS: First Ebenezer, yes.

SWARNS: But you know, Mrs. Holt points out that he was also a lot of fun and he told funny stories and the kids would always wait for him to get off the streetcar, because he carried peppermints for them.

ROBERTS: So where does the trail go from Birmingham then to Chicago where Michelle Obama was born?

SWARNS: Well, Dolphus Shields has a son and that son was Robert Lee Shields. And we don't know a whole lot about him. He sort of vanishes from the public records in his 30s. But Robert Lee has a son named Pernell. And Pernell and his mother migrate to Chicago sometime in the 1920s. And Pernell has a daughter who is Michelle Obama's mother.

ROBERTS: I see.

Now, Melvinia Shields, she died and I think it was 1938. On her death certificate...

SWARNS: That's right.

ROBERTS: ... a relative, under the heading of who were her parents, listed unknown.

SWARNS: That's right.

Does the trace, when you retrace the trail, does it end with Melvinia? Or is there some way to know who Melvinia's parents were and where Michelle Obama's family originally came from?

SWARNS: You know it's very, very, very difficult to go back much further than this. In fact the genealogist who we worked with said that Melvinia almost seemed like she was crying out to be found, it was really remarkable the documentation that we found about her.

But we have to remember that for slaves, for instance, if you look at records, often there are no last names...

ROBERTS: Yes.

SWARNS: ... so it's very difficult. Many slave rosters only included slaves by their ages, not even by a first name. So it's remarkable that she appeared and that we were able to trace her to the present. It would be quite difficult to go back further than that.

ROBERTS: Well, it is a remarkable story and it illuminates a little piece of history that none of us knew about. Rachel Swarns, good job on that. Thanks for joining us this morning.

SWARNS: Thank you very much.

ROBERTS: Kiran.

CHETRY: Coming up, we're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we're talking about NASA. They're actually bombing the moon. But it's to find out about some very, very, very interesting things back here on earth. We'll explain.

Fifty-five minutes past the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: NASA's known for playing music to wake up the astronauts. Maybe they'll be playing this song when they take on their next mission. They're planning on it being a bomb.

ROBERTS: Definitely. It's a good thing to do if you're trying to bomb the moon. What they're going to do is crash a rocket into the surface of the moon so that they can analyze the debris that comes up and look for the presence of water.

Jeanne Moos now with her take on this unusual lunar landing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It gives a whole new meaning to "shoot the moon."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: NASA wants to bomb the moon on October 9th.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bombing the moon, what are they thinking? They should bomb Mars.

MOOS: Nope, the target is definitely the moon, a crater on the South Pole. A rocket the size of a school bus will be sent crashing into the moon. The impact will kick up a huge cloud of debris that will be scanned by a second spacecraft looking for water.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our stupid (BLEEP) government and NASA is going to bomb the moon.

MOOS: actually, no explosives will be involved, but the moon's defenders have launched their own counterattack.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You lunatics, NASA to send a missile to blast the moon to bits

MOOS: Some are joking, but others are serious. Take this online petition with 560 signatures and comments like "heavenly bodies should not be disturbed."

This spoof from the late '90s was prophetic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: America can, should, must and will blow up the moon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we'll be doing it during a full moon, so we make sure we get it all.

MOOS: Come to think of it, first science fiction movie ever from 1902 foreshadowed the present.

Or less poetically...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: NASA bombed the moon.

MOOS: Some worry about the effect on the tides.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The next day, New York had been swallowed and biding her time, the East Coast had followed.

MOOS: But NASA says forget the disaster film scenario since the moon gets hit by things like meteorites with the same impact several times a month.

NASA's purpose is to look for signs for water in the debris which is already giving people money-making ideas.

Bottled moon-water, posted someone on Wonkette.

Forget Poland Spring, make it Spring of Tranquility.

It's enough to make the moon blue.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess we'll see what happens. Hold on.

MOOS: Leave it to Letterman to come up with unintended consequences.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is something they weren't counting on.

MOOS: NASA even got a call from a woman worried bombing the moon would affect her monthly cycle.

Jeanne Moos, CNN.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: May the moon stands strong. God bless America.

MOOS: New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTS: You know, then there's always the possibility of mission creep, too. It's like, can you stop at the moon, or do you have to go after Mars and Venus?

CHETRY: Wherever there's water, they've got to keep going.

ROBERTS: That's going to wrap it up for us. Continue the story. Go to our blog - no, it's continue the conversation. That's it. Go to our blog, cnn.com/amfix. We'll see you again tomorrow morning.

CHETRY: That's right. And the news continues right now. CNN NEWSROOM with Heidi Collins.