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Nancy Grace
Misty Croslin Does the CBS Early Show
Aired October 09, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Satsuma, Florida. A 5- year-old little girl tucked into bed. Five hours later, she`s gone, vanished, the back door propped wide open. Daddy comes home from the night shift to find not a trace of little Haleigh. The last person to see the 5- year-old alive that night, new stepmother Misty Croslin.
Bombshell tonight. Just hours after Croslin handcuffed and questioned in an alleged road rage incident, she dodges those charges and flies first class to New York City to take to the air, declaring her innocence. How does a fish get caught? He opens his mouth!
But even in this brief interview, Croslin can`t keep her story straight, first claiming she knows nothing about the 5-year-old`s whereabouts, but then in a stunning twist, she blurts out, quote, "The other side of the family took Haleigh," then a 180 on the failed lie detector, first claiming she passed, then admitting she failed, blaming her own guilty conscience. Is that an admission? No wonder her lawyer tells her, Don`t talk.
Has little Haleigh`s disappearance, the-nine month search for the brown-eyed 5-year-old and the fingers pointing at baby-sitter turned stepmom Misty Croslin taken a toll? Cummings and Croslin divorce, Croslin claiming neither Haleigh`s disappearance nor the holes in her story have anything to do with the split. Have Ronald Cummings worst fears been confirmed that his new wife, stepmother Misty Croslin, implicated in the disappearance of his 5-year-old little girl?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MISTY CROSLIN, HALEIGH`S BABY-SITTER/STEPMOTHER: We`ve been planning this for a while, actually.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know they love her, Haleigh, and I know they love each other and they will be together.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Congratulations, Ron!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Congratulations, Ronald!
RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: Thank you.
The two of us have agreed to go separate ways.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody`s been questioning Ronald. Why now, why after the last person to see Haleigh gets married to the father of little Haleigh, and now, after everything, they are splitting up?
CUMMINGS: With the family problems and everything else, it`s just -- it`s too much on the relationship.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`ve been saying that they have not been fighting. They`ve been saying Misty was on vacation when she went to Orlando. Now we know why she`s in Orlando this time.
GRACE: Why now? Why a divorce now?
CUMMINGS: We can`t go anywhere without being questioned or people staring at us or anything like that.
GRACE: For the first time, I don`t believe you. I think you do suspect your ex-wife, soon to be ex-wife`s story. I think you don`t want to discuss it in the midst of a divorce. Why? I don`t know that yet, but I`ll find out.
CROSLIN: (INAUDIBLE) I mean, I don`t want a divorce, but it`s what he wants, so -- whatever. I`m not going to fight him.
Someone come in and got her, obviously. I feel like it`s on the other side of the family that has her. That`s just how I feel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you feel that police have looked at everyone they need to look at?
CROSLIN: I don`t think they`ve looked at everyone as close as they have me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight: A close-knit New Hampshire community reeling after a beloved young nurse and her 11-year-old little girl brutally attacked with a machete in the early morning hours in their own home, asleep in their own beds. Daddy out of town, working. Suspects? Oh, no, not random killers off the street, not dope dealers, convicted felons. Oh, no. Allegedly, a group of teenagers, including Boy Scouts and a Mormon missionary student.
Tonight: Do police suspect more involved? As we go to air, are more arrests to come? At this hour, the little 11-year-old recovering from critical injuries. We learn tonight the perp actually hacked off the little girl`s toes. One word. Sick! The little girl`s mother dead. And now we want justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stabbed and attacked with a machete in their home, four teens charged.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were Boy Scouts, high school students, one even a devout Mormon on the verge of becoming a missionary. But now four teens arrested in connection with the brutal machete murder of mom and nurse Kimberly Cates.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Basically, they fell apart. We`re told by friends and neighbors that Chris Gribble began to, you know, dabble in knives.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could there be more suspects? Law enforcement now saying they haven`t ruled out additional arrests, investigators executing search warrants, questioning multiple witnesses to determine who`s responsible for the horrific hacking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Just hours after Croslin handcuffed and questioned in an alleged road rage incident, she dodges charges, flies first class to New York to take to the air, declaring her own innocence. How does a fish get caught? She opens her mouth.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROSLIN: He got down on his knees and said, Will you marry me?
GRACE: D-I-V-O-R-C-E! That`s right, divorce!
CUMMINGS: The fighting, every -- it`s just everything.
GRACE: You told me that changes, even subtle, small changes in Misty Croslin`s story about the night Haleigh went missing bothered you.
CUMMINGS: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: What changes, if any, do you recall?
CUMMINGS: There`s -- I can`t really recall the exact changes, and they were real small. It`s not like she -- she pretty much tells me the same thing each time she -- I ask her about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They keep saying that you failed. Do you want people to know something about that?
CROSLIN: They`re going to know. They`re going to know. I just got to wait until I can -- my lawyer is ready.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. But would you...
CROSLIN: (INAUDIBLE) that weekend was a lie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. I mean, would you -- so are you saying that you didn`t fail the polygraph, like people and law enforcement are kind of claiming that you did?
CROSLIN: No, I did not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So bottom line, you don`t know where Haleigh is?
CROSLIN: Bottom line.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do you think you failed it?
CROSLIN: I didn`t want to take the polygraph. I was supposed to do a hypnosis. That`s what I was supposed to do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh.
CROSLIN: One of the guys said that it could be the reason I`m failing is because I feel like it`s my fault because I was the last one to see (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think he`s divorcing you because the stress of all this is just too hard?
CROSLIN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But what about his claims that there are -- that you`re telling different stories? Do you think he believes you`re guilty now of something?
CROSLIN: No, I don`t think so.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What has he said to you about this?
CROSLIN: He just -- he hasn`t really said, like, much about it. You know, he believes me. He doesn`t think I had anything to do with Haleigh going missing.
GRACE: Ronald Cummings, did it ever disturb you that Misty Croslin`s story actually changed?
CUMMINGS: Yes, ma`am, it did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You were just seeing Misty Croslin on CBS`s "The Early Show" just a few hours ago.
Straight out to Marlaina Schiavo. Marlaina, explain to me -- she says she can`t go talk to her -- she can`t talk to police because her lawyer doesn`t want her to. Her lawyer didn`t want her to go on CBS morning show, but there she is in full color.
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: You got it, Nancy. She came up here against his wishes. He told me he did not want her doing any interviews. He himself has yet to do an interview. So here she comes. She comes to New York. She talks about the polygraph. She tells a local reporter on her way that she never failed the polygraph. Then she gets on the CBS "Early Show" and blatantly admits that she failed a poly. And why? Due to the fact that it could be...
GRACE: She feels guilty.
SCHIAVO: She feels guilty.
GRACE: OK. Let`s take a look at what Croslin had to say this morning, just hours ago, against her lawyer`s wishes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So are you saying that you didn`t fail the polygraph like people and law enforcement are kind of claiming that you did?
CROSLIN: No, I did not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But you did (INAUDIBLE)
CROSLIN: Yes. I did take a polygraph.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you passed it.
CROSLIN: I mean, my understanding is that I passed it, you know?
I just want to let everybody know that I was home because I did pass my lie detector test saying that I was home.
I didn`t want to take the polygraph. I was supposed to do a hypnosis. That`s what I was supposed to do. One of the guys said that it could be the reason I`m failing is because I feel like it`s my fault because I was the last one to see (INAUDIBLE)
COURTNEY BALLINGER, ALLEGED ROAD RAGE VICTIM: The car came up next to me with the driver hanging half out of the window, just basically saying over and over again, you know, We`re -- we`re going to beat you up. You`re dead. You`re dead. They wanted me to think that they had a weapon.
CROSLIN: It`s a big lie. That lady is crazy. And I don`t know where she`s coming up I said I was going to kill her. Nothing happened like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, that`s not what she said when the alleged victim called the police. You just saw Croslin on CBS`s early morning show.
To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer on the story from the very, very beginning. What are the other inconsistencies in her story? Much of it coming to light this morning in her interview on national TV against her lawyer`s advice. Now I understand why he told her to be quiet.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. Well, Nancy, she says in response to one question that she doesn`t know who has Haleigh and that they should be looking for the person who actually does have Haleigh. In the very next breath, she says that she believes it`s the other side of the family that has her.
GRACE: OK, let`s take a listen to what Croslin said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bottom line, you don`t know where Haleigh is.
CROSLIN: Bottom line.
Someone come in and got her, obviously. I feel like it`s the other side of the family that has her. That`s just how I feel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think he`s divorcing you because the stress of all this is just too hard?
CROSLIN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But what about his claims that there are -- that you`re telling different stories? Do you think he believes you`re guilty now of something?
CROSLIN: No, I don`t think so.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What has he said to you about this?
CROSLIN: He just -- he hasn`t really said, like, much about it. You know, he believes me. He doesn`t think I had anything to do with Haleigh going missing.
GRACE: Ronald Cummings, did it ever disturb you that Misty Croslin`s story actually changed?
CUMMINGS: Yes, ma`am, it did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to a special guest joining us, Haleigh`s grandmother, Teresa Neves. Ms. Neves, I`m sure that you know by now Misty Croslin`s comments from earlier this morning on the CBS morning show. What do you make of it? She`s actually claiming the other side of the family -- would that be Ronald`s side of the family? Is that who she`s referring to, took Haleigh?
TERESA NEVES, HALEIGH`S PATERNAL GRANDMOTHER: I do not think so, Miss Nancy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUMMINGS: We have talked her about talking to the police.
GRACE: What does she say?
CUMMINGS: She says she`s talked to them.
GRACE: They want to talk to her again. Why won`t she do it?
CUMMINGS: I have no knowledge of them wanting to talk to her where she wouldn`t do it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So are you saying that you didn`t fail the polygraph, like people and law enforcement are kind of claiming that you did.
CROSLIN: No, I did not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But you did (INAUDIBLE)
CROSLIN: Yes, I did take a polygraph.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you passed it.
CROSLIN: I mean, my understanding is that I passed it, you know?
I just want to let everybody know that I was home because I did pass my lie detector test saying that I was home.
I didn`t want to take the polygraph. I was supposed to do a hypnosis. That`s what I was supposed to do. One of the guys said that it could be the reason I`m failing is because I feel like it`s my fault because I was the last one to (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You think he`s divorcing you because the stress of all this is just too hard?
CROSLIN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But what about his claims that there are -- that you`re telling different stories? Do you think he believes you`re guilty now of something?
CROSLIN: No, I don`t think so.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What has he said to you about this?
CROSLIN: He just -- he hasn`t really said, like, much about it, you know? He believes me. He doesn`t think I had anything to do with Haleigh going missing.
GRACE: Ronald Cummings, did it ever disturb you that Misty Croslin`s story actually changed?
CUMMINGS: Yes, ma`am, it did.
CROSLIN: Someone come in and got her, obviously. I feel like it`s the other side of the family that has her. That`s just how I feel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you feel that police have looked at everyone they need to look at?
CROSLIN: I don`t think they`ve looked at everyone as close as they have me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The media spotlight has been on you. What has this been like for you over the last couple months?
CROSLIN: Really hard. Really, really hard. Just (INAUDIBLE) be back to normal. I want Haleigh home. Definitely.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think she`s still alive?
CROSLIN: I feel in my heart that she`s still alive, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is Misty Croslin on CBS`s "The Early Show."
Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, high-profile lawyer out of the Seattle jurisdiction Anne Bremner. Also joining us, renowned defense attorney Mickey Sherman out of New York, author of "How Can You Defend Those People?" Also with us, Sue Moss, family law attorney, child advocate. Sue Moss, weigh in.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Her game of blame is simply lame. Who`s she going to say next, the Zenaida dame? Let`s look at the facts. Bio mom was a hundred miles away. Misty was nearly 100 inches away. It`s very clear from the facts and the fact that she changes her story again and again that Misty is the center one to look at.
GRACE: So Anne Bremner, now I know why her lawyer said, Zip it.
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. Well, absolutely. You know, a closed mouth gathers no foot. But the fact of the matter is, Nancy, just because she`s getting divorced over these circumstances or just because she`s branded with a scarlet "G" around her for guilty in the -- at least in public opinion, there`s no probable cause here right now. There`s just no evidence that would admissible, so even if...
GRACE: Hold on. Put Bremner up. Put Bremner up.
BREMNER: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Anne?
BREMNER: Yes, Nancy?
GRACE: You know what? You have an excellent reputation...
BREMNER: Oh, thank you.
GRACE: ... as a defense attorney.
BREMNER: Thank you.
GRACE: But that simply is not what I asked you. I`m asking you not about probable cause...
BREMNER: OK.
GRACE: ... I`m asking you about her decision to appear this morning...
BREMNER: Terrible.
GRACE: ... on national TV.
BREMNER: You know what, Nancy? You`re absolutely right. It`s a terrible decision. I can`t think of any reason for her to have done that, any whatsoever. And then she had three very bad areas in the interview herself. And she didn`t even come off in any way that looked to be innocent. So all in all...
GRACE: Anne, we`re showing you right now the wedding video.
BREMNER: Right.
GRACE: And now -- this is the video of Ronald Cummings, Misty Croslin`s wedding for NBC`s "Today" show. Mickey Sherman, that was -- that was a brief "I do." And now, it`s very obvious that they`re not coming clean about the cause of their divorce. They`re both saying, People look at me. So? So what? That`s not a cause for a divorce.
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think the magic is gone, Nancy. I think that that`s a fact. And you know, to go on the morning shows, the choices -- listen to your lawyer, whether the lawyer is competent, articulate or not, or get to be in New York City in person on the CBS or NBC or ABC morning shows, and these people will take the morning show every time, even though it`s damaging to them personally and makes them look like idiots and it doesn`t help their case a bit.
GRACE: But there were so many inconsistencies with what she said. And she even points out -- now, I want to go back to Teresa Neves. This is Haleigh`s grandmother, who has been at the forefront in the search for her granddaughter, along with her son, Ronald Cummings.
Teresa, to actually blame your side of the family, or else Crystal Sheffield, the bio mom -- and we all know she was over 100 miles away. So that kind of narrows it down to Ronald`s side of the family who she`s trying to blame.
NEVES: I don`t think she`s trying to blame us, Miss Nancy.
GRACE: So you believe she`s trying to blame the bio mom`s family.
NEVES: I do.
GRACE: OK. Why do you think that? Where would she get that? There`s not a shred of evidence to suggest Crystal Sheffield`s family had anything to do with this.
NEVES: I cannot explain her thinking. I can only tell you what I think that the statement meant.
GRACE: OK.
NEVES: And I do not believe that she was talking about Ronald`s side of the family.
GRACE: Well, I hope not, since you have been in the forefront of trying to find the little girl.
Lillian Glass, you have very carefully reviewed all the video from today. What do you make of it? You`re the expert.
LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: She shows signals of deception, and she`s completely in denial.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUMMINGS: The two of us have agreed to go separate ways. If in the long run, something comes about Haleigh, then she can -- it will be whatever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is your fear for your future when you look ahead?
CROSLIN: Just to get -- bring Haleigh home and have a normal life again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you worry that you might be arrested?
CROSLIN: No, I don`t. I just -- I`m always being told all kinds of different things, so I just don`t even pay attention to them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think that Ronald Cummings will go through with the divorce?
CROSLIN: Yes. Yes, I do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you`re resigned to go on without him?
CROSLIN: If that`s what happens, it happens. But you know, we`re going to still stay in contact. And if something happens down the road, then we might end up back together. I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do you think you failed it?
CROSLIN: I didn`t want to take the polygraph. I was supposed to do a hypnosis. That`s what I was supposed to do. One of the guys said that it could be the reason I`m failing is because I feel like it`s my fault because I was the last one to see (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Misty Croslin on CBS`s "The Early Show." And there you hear Croslin, the last person known to have seen little Haleigh alive, the 5- year-old little brown-eyed little girl out of Satsuma, Florida, says she may have flunked that polygraph because she felt guilty, guilty at having been the last person to see her, to be in charge of her, taking care of her.
To Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist, body language expert, author of "I Know What You`re Thinking" -- we`re showing video of her today on CBS`s "Early Show" and at the airport when she was questioned. You have very carefully reviewed this and reams of video. What`s your analysis, Lillian?
GLASS: It`s very interesting because one of the things she does is she shakes her head no when she means yes. The only thing that rings true is when she was asked, Is this difficult on you? And that`s when you see sincerity. Other than that, it is complete deception, and she`s in complete denial in terms of what she has to say.
GRACE: Now, how do you know that, Lillian?
GLASS: Well, it`s very interesting because one of the things she does is she does a lot of shoulder movement. She does a lot of lip licking. And you see these are signals of deception. And you see things that are completely incongruous, especially when she`s talking about getting -- she wanted to take the hypnosis. Well, one cannot be hypnotized unless they want to be. So again, you see a lot of issues here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUMMINGS: I hope that they find my child alive, obviously. But one way or another, I want my daughter to come home. I need some closure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So are you saying you didn`t fail the polygraph like people and law enforcement are kind of claiming that you did?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I did not.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY WIXT)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you did good?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I did take a polygraph.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You passed it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean my understanding is that I passed it, you know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want everybody to know that I was home because I did pass my lie detector test saying that I was home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE EARLY SHOW," COURTESY CBS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t want to take the polygraph. I was supposed to do a hypnosis. That`s what I was supposed to do. But one of the guys said that could be -- the reason I`m failing is because I feel like it`s my fault because I was lost on the scene (ph) with her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COURTNEY BALLINGER, ACCUSES MISTY CROSLIN CUMMINGS OF THREATENING HER ON THE ROAD: The car came up next to me with the driver hanging half out the window just basically saying over and over again, you know, we`re -- we`re going to beat you up. You`re dead. You`re dead. They wanted me to think that they had a weapon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY WESN)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That lady is crazy and I don`t know where she`s coming up I said I was going to kill her. Nothing happened like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE EARLY SHOW," COURTESY CBS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bottom line, you don`t owe where Haleigh is?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The bottom line.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I went home and got her, obviously. I feel like it`s on the other side of the family that has her. That`s just how I feel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s Croslin on the CBS "Early Show." Susan Moss, Mickey Sherman, Anne Bremner, nothing under the Constitution will disallow or bar that statement from coming in at trial, if there ever is a trial, Anne Bremner.
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s absolutely right. I mean she volun -- it`s voluntary. It`s knowing. She wasn`t in custody. It wasn`t the police and she didn`t ask for a lawyer, which she should have done. But it absolutely comes into evidence.
GRACE: And, Mickey, it`s not that she didn`t ask for a lawyer. We all know she`s got a lawyer. But she is adamantly refusing to heed his advice. He won`t do an interview.
Do you blame him?
He`s got a fairly good reputation. He keeps telling her, don`t do this, don`t do this. And she does everything except talk to police.
MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR, "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": You know, usually...
GRACE: That`s the one kicker. That`s the one exception.
SHERMAN: And, Nancy, usually it`s -- honestly, it`s the more educated, upper demo clients who won`t listen to us, because they`re smarter than us and they`re...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly.
SHERMAN: ...and they`re just paying money and we -- and we should just listen to what they say. Usually, the lower demo -- the lower economic clients, they -- you know, she`s the aberration. They usually do listen to us and take our advice. But it sure is not happening here.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: She will keep on talking, we`ll keep on listening and maybe we`ll get a conviction.
GRACE: And -- and to you, Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer, isn`t it true that when cops do get to talk to her, every time she gets a hard question, she says, you know, I`ve got a lawyer.
How does that go?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Right. Right. The Putnam County Sheriff`s Office is telling us that she has walked out of interviews with them in the past. She`s never said no. But like you said, when she gets a tough question, she reminds them she has she`s a lawyer and she won`t answer.
GRACE: What about it, Schiavo?
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: It`s true. And, also, I spoke to them the other day and they said that, you know, when he spoke to her for about 20 minutes before she left town, he got out some interest -- interesting things and he`d like to follow up on them. But she has yet to come back.
GRACE: Now, another thing that I noticed she said to Brian Reich, detective, Bergen County prosecutor`s office, is that the lady -- the alleged victim in the road rage incident -- is crazy.
Well, I interviewed the woman. She`s not crazy. She is an established pharmaceutical sales rep. She makes a great living. She has a family. She was out working that day.
And if you look at the timing, from the time she called police, she says they were following her, railing at her, hanging out the window for 30 minutes. And it`s still going on when police get there, Brian. So the lady is not crazy. And she looked right at that camera and said, "That didn`t happen."
BRIAN REICH, DETECTIVE, BERGEN COUNTY PROSECUTOR`S OFFICE: Yes, I mean, I -- you know, first of all, I find it hard to believe, going through the scrutiny that she`s going through with the police with this -- with this incident with the little girl -- I find it hard to believe that she could even behave in that matter and have the energy to and would want to try to lay -- lay under the radar. And she definitely seems like a person that wants to put blame on everybody else and that really wasn`t going to take responsibility for her actions. She definitely has a -- has a lot of issues.
GRACE: To Dr. Leigh Vinocur, University of Maryland School of Medicine.
Dr. Vinocur, thank you for being with us.
DR. LEIGH VINOCUR, M.D. UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: My pleasure.
GRACE: One of the theories that emerged is that little Haleigh could have taken OxyContin at a drug party.
Would just -- I don`t believe the theory, but would just one OxyContin tablet kill -- could it kill a child?
VINOCUR: Well, if she took one and chewed it up, because OxyContin is a dose that`s a slow release drug. And sometimes drug abusers use it by chewing up the tablet and they get a fast rush. So they get a 12 hour dose in one dose. And for a small child, that could be an overdose.
So -- and kids usually don`t swallow pills, they usually chew things. So there is that potential there.
GRACE: You know what I find so problematic among the many things she said this morning -- back to the lawyers, Susan Moss, Mickey Sherman, Anne Bremner. Anne, she says -- have you noticed that people that are suspects -- and she is not a person of interest right now...
BREMNER: Right.
GRACE: ...that are suspected of wrongdoing, of murder, always say, I think they`re still alive."
BREMNER: I know.
GRACE: They always say that.
BREMNER: Well, it`s like going too far, as you know, Nancy. It`s thinking you can just say, I don`t know anything, I`m not involved. But they`re not even dead, you`re just taking it way too far...
GRACE: But if they are, I didn`t have anything to do with it.
BREMNER: Right. That`s right.
GRACE: And to sit there after all these interviews with cops and say, oh, I`m not worried about being arrested.
BREMNER: That`s right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would worry. Every time I`m at a stop sign, I`m worried.
BREMNER: Absolutely.
GRACE: What about it, Sherman?
SHERMAN: Elizabeth Smart -- she was alive. You know, there`s always an exception to the rule.
GRACE: You`re right.
SHERMAN: You know?
GRACE: You know, Mickey...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, that`s true.
GRACE: You`re absolutely right.
SHERMAN: And, also, when you...
GRACE: But I`m not asking you about the exception to the rule.
SHERMAN: I know.
GRACE: I`m asking you, why is it that people that are suspected always say, oh, they`re still alive?
SHERMAN: Well...
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) alive. I feel -- I have a feel -- a feeling.
SHERMAN: Well, obviously, she`s trying to profess her innocence in one fashion. And if there is any relationship or affinity to the person or the young boy or girl who`s lost, it`s wishful thinking. I mean look -- look at, you know, when anybody has a tragedy, they always are hoping for the best. And that could be a personal bit or it could be a -- a magnificent cover-up.
GRACE: Sue?
MOSS: And when she says, she feels like this child is alive, it`s almost as if she`s acting like the child`s biological mother. And that really disturbs me because, you know, she should be at a junior prom, not pretending to be mom.
GRACE: I want to go back to Teresa now, because this is Haleigh`s grandmother.
Teresa, what is Ronald making of all this?
I mean, she`s clearly got inconsistent statements.
NEVES: Yes, ma`am, she does. And Ronald has decided to leave this up to law enforcement -- let them decide what is right and what is wrong and hopefully bring Haleigh home.
GRACE: Has Misty Croslin signed the divorce papers yet?
NEVES: No, ma`am, not to my knowledge.
GRACE: I`m sorry. I couldn`t hear you.
Did you say no?
NEVES: Not to my knowledge, she has not signed them yet.
GRACE: Why?
Is she hanging this over your son`s head?
I mean why?
NEVES: I do not know. It was my understanding that she would sign the papers right away. And I guess she`s just busy doing other things right now.
GRACE: Like what, going to -- what`s in Orlando?
Why does she keep going to Orlando?
NEVES: She is staying there with someone she met while doing the test with Tim Miller.
GRACE: Everyone, as we go to break, I want to say a big thank you Lifetime`s "Drop Dead Diva." It`s about a model who dies in a car crash -- beautiful -- then returns as a lawyer who now has to rely on inner beauty and brains. In episode six, she squares off over an appearance on our program. "Drop Dead Diva," Lifetime, Sundays, 9:00 Eastern.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "DROP DEAD DIVA," COURTESY LIFETIME/SOKY PICTURES TELEVISION)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, tell Miss. Grace I`ll do the show if she gives me the whole hour. Yes, that works. Everybody is calling about the (INAUDIBLE) case -- the newspapers, cable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You like talking to the press, don`t you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m the lead attorney on the (INAUDIBLE) case. Those reporters contact me before you, but I decline their calls. So if I decide to start talking, who do you think goes on NANCY GRACE?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well played, baby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news in the shocking Boy Scout murder. Investigators say there could be additional arrests in the case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The participants intended to kill the occupants of the home, if anyone was present.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four teens currently arrested in the machete hacking death of 42-year-old nurse Kimberly Cates. Kimberly Cates died of multiple stab wounds to her head, torso, arm and leg -- her 11-year-old daughter surviving, now recovering at a Boston children`s hospital.
Investigators gearing up -- multiple search warrants executed, dozens of people interviewed, as authorities search for motive and possibly additional suspects.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Christopher Gribble (ph) is charged with the most heinous crime -- murder in the first degree.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prosecutors say Christopher Gribble was armed with a knife and Stephen Spader had a machete. Authorities say William Marks and Quinn Glover were also armed when they entered 4 Trow Road in Mount Vernon. Kimberly Cates and her 11-year-old daughter were sleeping inside.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They targeted this home, essentially ran (INAUDIBLE), because it was on an isolated road.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gribble and Spader face three charges that include first degree murder. Prosecutors say both suspects hit Kate and her daughter with their weapons. Kimberly Cates allegedly died in her bed, while the 11-year-old suffered serious injuries.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She remains in the intensive care unit. It doesn`t appear that her -- her injuries are life-threatening. But that isn`t, by any means, to minimize the severity of the attack.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A sixth grade girl is brutalized.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The participants intended to kill the occupants of the home if anyone was present.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
GRACE: Straight out to Joe Dwinell with the "Boston Herald." Joe, I`ve just heard the disturbing news that the little 11-year-old girl`s toes were hacked off.
JOE DWINELL, REPORTER/EDITOR, "THE BOSTON HERALD": Exactly. Sources tell "The Herald" that the girl`s toes were chopped off in this heinous attack. She`s now recovering in the Children`s Hospital in Boston and they discovered her toes at the crime scene.
GRACE: To Dr. Lee Vinocur with the University of Maryland School of Medicine, Dr. Vinocur, is there any way -- I know of other body parts -- hands, legs, fingers that have -- and more -- that have been reattached?
Is that a possibility here?
VINOCUR: Well, I mean, it depends on the amount of time and when they found the toes and if they transported them and they didn`t have a long ischemic time. But certainly, with fingers, which are more useful, it depends on which toe. A big toe, they will spend the time to transplant because it helps with balance. But sometimes a baby toe, to go through all that surgery, they might not do that.
GRACE: Why did you say ischemic?
What is that?
VINOCUR: Ischemia means how long the toes were off before they could put them on ice and get the blood vessels to contract so that the tissue doesn`t start to die.
GRACE: OK...
VINOCUR: So you want to get the, you know, the part brought to the hospital.
GRACE: As fast as you can.
To the lawyers, Susan Moss, Mickey Sherman, Anne Bremner. You know, Mickey Sherman, that was to torture that little girl. That was to torture her. Now, you can`t tell me anybody is caught up in the heat of passion, they`re all in a pack mentality and then I find out the little 11-year-old girl has her toes chopped off with a machete. I can hardly form the words, Sherman.
SHERMAN: I didn`t do it. The problem is it`s indefensible. It is absolutely indefensible. I mean, you know, this is why people embrace the death penalty. And, you know, we saw because of the fallibility of the criminal justice system and The Innocence Project results, we say we`ve got to get rid of the death penalty.
And then comes one of these cases, which I call the end of the end of the death penalty, because we all want to say, let`s kill these guys and then we`ll get -- get rid of the death penalty.
GRACE: We are showing you photos. Take a look at this, Mickey, Anne, Susan. These are some of the guys that are now being held on murder and attempted murder on an 11-year-old little girl, murder of the mother. Here are the photos of the suspects from Facebook.
Now, I especially want to show, Rosie, the shot of one of them holding a knife.
Could you please get that one for me?
There you go. And I believe there`s one more holding a knife. There you go.
Now, how would you like to bring that home to dinner, Dr. Lillian Glass?
DR. LILLIAN GLASS: Horrible. It`s -- it`s just egregious. And it shows there`s a lot of sadism. You can see it in their faces. It`s -- it`s repulsive. It sounds like a ritual type of behavior.
GRACE: Out to Clark Goldband, our producer on the story.
What more can you tell me?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: We are standing by, Nancy, for breaking news. Authorities not ruling out additional arrests. We know four suspects already there in custody, but authorities on the ground questioning more witnesses and seeking more answers.
Also, Nancy, as you talked about, that 11-year-old girl had her toes removed and unfortunately...
GRACE: Don`t say removed. Don`t say removed. That`s not what happened.
GOLDBAND: It was...
GRACE: They hacked her toes, a little girl`s toes -- what is that, the fourth of fifth grade -- off with a machete, Clark. They didn`t remove them. Don`t -- don`t sugar coat what has happened to this family.
The father is out of town working to make a living. He leaves for one night. That night, his wife is murdered asleep in her own bed and his daughter is nearly hacked to death. And now, Boy Scouts and a Mormon missionary being held on murder charges.
What can you tell me about these alleged perpetrators, Joe?
Joe joining us from "The Boston Herald."
DWINELL: I can tell you a lot. Christopher Gribble -- that`s the one with the knife. He was supposedly going to go on a Mormon mission. But he also spoke about how the commandment of thou shalt not kill was -- was -- he was having trouble getting over that.
Facebook friends tell us that Christopher was just racked with hate, anger, rage. And this is also true of Stephen Spader. He, too, was dark. He had turned from a kid who was into, you know, theater, to someone who is just full of hate.
They went, in the early morning hours of Sunday, and just hacked this -- allegedly hacked this family apart.
GRACE: I`m just -- I`m just sick. I`m sick at heart. This child holding onto her life at the hospital. The father -- no more wife, no more mommy. And I`ve got to tell you, trying to raise two children, it takes two.
As we go to break, happy birthday to North Carolina friend Jody -- a smile that lights up a room, a heart of gold, captain of the Special Olympics cheerleading team, The Lady Bugs, a world tennis and swimming champ. She loves taking care of children at local day care. Happy birthday, Jody.
And a special hello to faithful Dear Abbi. She`s a 7-year-old Westy. She is (INAUDIBLE) my new book, "Eleventh Victim" before anybody else at home. Abbi and her family, Susan, Casey, Chris, Peg and Ralph, never missed the program.
Thank you.
And tonight, CNN Heroes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Heroes.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: Hello. I`m Deepak Chopra.
For the past two years, I`ve had the honor of serving on the blue ribbon panel that elects the top 10 CNN Heroes as a contributor to the (INAUDIBLE) this project that transforms communities around the world. I`ve seen just how much we all need heroes.
Now, I`m thrilled to help CNN introduce one of this year`s top 10 heroes.
(ON SCREEN)
In 1999, violent clashes broke out over East Timorese independence.
BUDI SOEHARDI, CHAMPIONING CHILDREN:
There was riots. Buildings were burned.
(ON SCREEN)
More than 200,000 people were displaced during the conflict.
SOEHARDI: People were just trying to save their life. The children were supposed to have a proper (INAUDIBLE) meal. And what they were having there was far from the normal.
My name is Budi Soehardi. I`m a pilot for Singapore Airlines. I founded an orphanage to help the children in West Timor in West Timor. Right from the beginning, we give them vaccinations, clothing, food.
Hey!
But we cannot give them anything more valuable than a proper education.
A, B, C, D, E, F, G.
(ON SCREEN)
Since 2002, Budi`s pilot salary has provided for 47 orphans in West Timor.
Very, very good.
We also have been able to provide and to (INAUDIBLE) to just be who you are, help others and do it from your heart.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms.
Take a look at the stories and, more important, the people who touched our lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Why a divorce now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can`t go anywhere without being questioned or people staring at us or anything like that.
GRACE: OK. So you`re getting a divorce because people stare at you?
I don`t believe that for one minute.
"Jon & Kate Plus 8" -- is daddy headed to the big house?
JON GOSSELIN: I would love to be mom and dad. We`re not going to be husband and wife.
GRACE: Hey, you talk the talk, but you don`t walk the walk.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She says that Jon took $230,000 out of the joint account. Jon claims he only took $22,000 out.
GRACE: A young nurse and her 11-year-old little girl brutally attacked with a machete and a knife.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Steven Spader and Christopher Gribble are charged with murder. William Marks and Twin Glover are charged with burglary, conspiracy to commit burglary and armed robbery. Prosecutors say all four of the suspects allegedly knew that the plan was to kill anyone who may be inside 4 Trow Road.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s someone following me and she`s harassing me, telling me that she`s going to beat ass.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) believable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their both arms were outside the window and the car was going 80 miles an hour and somebody else was trying to scare them (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I know, but I`m saying I don`t think a -- a prosecutor will believe (INAUDIBLE).
GRACE: Did you ever see "Thelma and Louise?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As it relates to -- yes, but that`s movies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Marine Corporal Jason Karella, 20, Anchorage, Alaska, on a second tour. He told family if he lost his life, he wanted them to toast him an Irish whiskey. He loved outdoors, hockey, snowboarding, camping. He dreamed of starting a family in Alaska and being a state trooper.
He leaves behind grieving parents, (INAUDIBLE) and Maurice; brother, Josh; fiancee, Beth. Jason Karella -- American hero.
Thanks to our guests.
But our biggest thank you is to you.
A special good night from the New York control room.
And from California friend, also known as Brett, our director`s mother.
Isn`t she beautiful?
The proof`s in the pudding. You`ve got a wonderful son. That was Barbara. And after all of your thoughts and prayers, I`d like to report my mom is out of the hospital. She fell ill at church, leading the cheering (ph) choir, so I guess God answered her prayers. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp, Eastern.
Until then, good night, friends.
END
