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Joy Behar Page
Interview With Orly Taitz; Has Positive Thinking Undermined America?
Aired October 13, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight, a Russian-born Orange County dentist who spends most of her time trying to prove that Barack Obama wasn`t born in the United States. But is this dentist spending too much time with the nitrous oxide?
Plus, does the president need to pick a fight and win it? And should the White House be telling Bill O`Reilly and Glenn beck to go Fox themselves.
Joining me in the studio author Barbara Ehrenreich on how positive thinking can have negative effects.
And a conversation with the beautiful and talented actress, Alicia Silverstone.
All of this and more, tonight.
The far right would like nothing better than to bring down our president. They attack his policies, his opinions and they also look for more creative ways to undermine him. One of the more questionable claims has been that Barack Obama wasn`t born in the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to know why are you people ignoring his birth certificate? He is not an American citizen. He is a citizen of Kenya.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok, with me now is the woman leading the Birther Movement, Orly Taitz. Ok, Orly, I want to start with -- before we get to the birther movement, I want to start with some news that broke this afternoon and that is that you were fined $20,000 for misconduct by a judge in Georgia who called you delusional? Are you delusional?
ORLY TAITZ, BIRTHER MOVEMENT: Absolutely no, it`s a delusional and corrupt judge.
BEHAR: But he was appointed by George Bush.
TAITZ: Listen, people make mistakes. What can I say?
BEHAR: So you`re not a fan of George Bush either.
TAITZ: Well, I wanted to explain that I`m bringing this issue because it`s a Constitutional issue. And as a matter of fact I`ve written a number of articles where I`ve said, Barack Obama is not eligible for presidency not only because he never provided the hospital birth certificate.
BEHAR: Well he does have a birth certificate.
TAITZ: And that`s what I wanted to show because they showed on each and every show. This is -- can we...
BEHAR: Yes, I think we can show it.
TAITZ: This is a hospital birth certificate. There`s a lot of information there. That`s one from Hawaii. That`s what Obama posted on the Internet.
BEHAR: Yes, I have a copy too.
TAITZ: Ok and you can see a huge difference.
BEHAR: But Orly this is what -- everyone in Hawaii gets this now.
TAITZ: No, but the point is that he was asked to provide information.
BEHAR: Yes.
TAITZ: What`s the name of the hospital, what`s the name of the doctor?
BEHAR: But this is what they gave him?
TAITZ: No, no actually, in his book and I made sure I read this book. He said that he had a birth certificate. So why wouldn`t he provide it? He provided only something that he got a year ago or two years ago in 2007.
BEHAR: Yes.
TAITZ: Why wouldn`t he provide the original where he said in his book that he has and he cherishes and he keeps with all of his documents.
BEHAR: Well, but there are so much verification that he was born here.
TAITZ: No, that`s the whole point.
BEHAR: Let me tell you the Hawaiian Health Department Director released this statement. Let me read this statement. "I have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State of Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural born American citizen."
TAITZ: Ok and let me respond to this.
BEHAR: All right.
TAITZ: Did you know that the State of Hawaii allows foreign-born children of Hawaiian residents to get Hawaiian birth certificate. It`s Rule 338-17. Moreover, State of Hawaii allows one get a birth certificate based on the statement of one relative only.
If his mother -- birth mother writes a statement, and they could even mail the statements back in `61 saying...
BEHAR: Where is the proof that that happened?
TAITZ: Well, that`s the whole point, the fact his behavior shows a guilty mind. We had over 100 lawsuits.
BEHAR: I don`t see that. I don`t agree with that. Well, listen to this, two separate Hawaiian newspapers. The Honolulu Advertiser and the Honolulu Star Bulletin published his birth announcements in August 1961.
Was his mother planning? She said to the staff, you know, "In several years from now, he`s going to be president so I`m going to pretend that he was born here."
TAITZ: Yes.
BEHAR: What kind of planner and she`s not that -- I don`t think the woman could plan that far ahead. It`s not logical.
TAITZ: Yes, and that`s a very good point. And that`s why I want to explain it. Because in Hawaii, what they did in 1961, they had something called Hawaiian News Agency. They would bring all of the birth certificate that came from the hospitals and the ones that he probably has based on the statement of a relative. Because there was never any hospital birth certificate found where just appearance right he was born here.
They send all of them. They don`t say this is illegitimate, this is negligence.
BEHAR: So many people disagree with you.
Hawaii`s Governor, he`s a Republican who backs John McCain has also confirmed that Obama was born in the states. A nonpartisan group.
TAITZ: No, no never, she never did.
BEHAR: Yes, she did.
TAITZ: When, when tell me when.
BEHAR: I don`t know when...
TAITZ: You don`t know when because it never happened. Joy, it never happened.
BEHAR: I`ll find out.
TAITZ: Ok, it never happened.
BEHAR: Ok, a nonpartisan group called factcheck.org. Now, with a nonpartisan, they have no interest.
TAITZ: They are partisan.
BEHAR: Why do you say that? Why you say them partisan, I say nonpartisan? Why are you right and I`m wrong?
TAITZ: I`ll tell you why?
BEHAR: Ok.
TAITZ: They`re owned by Annenberg Foundation that also owned Annenberg Challenge where Obama was the president and Obama got $50 million from Annenberg, for Annenberg Foundation that have serious financial ties.
BEHAR: I really need to see proof of that.
TAITZ: Sure, absolutely.
BEHAR: But let me ask you something. It`s a more general idea about this whole thing. What is it that you`re trying to get out of this? Why do you want to discredit this president? What is your motivation?
TAITZ: Ok, I don`t want to discredit this president.
BEHAR: It sure sounds like it.
TAITZ: But first of all, let me show this -- can you do a close-up?
BEHAR: That doesn`t matter. They can`t read it anyway.
TAITZ: Ok, it`s a court order. And it`s saying that we are going to trial January 26 in California, Central District of California, Judge David O`Carter, January 26, 8:30 in the morning, jury trial.
BEHAR: All right.
TAITZ: And this judge stated -- this is a legitimate issue and it`s important for the whole country, it`s important for the military.
BEHAR: But don`t you see -- listen the country is in a lot of trouble. Ok, we`re in a lot of trouble. So what do you want to happen? Do you want him to -- let`s say you`re right. You`re not right, but let`s say you are right.
I can`t accept it that you`re right I won`t. I have too much proof that you`re wrong.
TAITZ: I have too much proof that I`m right.
BEHAR: Ok, well, we`re at a check mate then on that point.
But let`s just say that. What is the point of this? This would be harmful for the country for this to happen. Who do you want John McCain to get in there? We don`t even -- a lot of people said that he wasn`t even born here. His father and mother and his whole family has been in the United States military. He was born in Panama, he is an American citizen.
People say he wasn`t an American citizen.
TAITZ: Let me...
BEHAR: I mean, what do you expect to happen here?
TAITZ: Ok, according to the law, according to (INAUDIBLE) provisions -- we have to -- we are going to trial in California January 26. And I represent 46 members of U.S. military.
BEHAR: But you`re not answering my question...
TAITZ: Yes, yes, ok.
BEHAR: What are you trying to do?
TAITZ: If, indeed, the court finds that he was not legitimate, then, like in many European countries, we will have a special election. And maybe it will be another Democrat in the White House, maybe it will be Hillary. I don`t know.
BEHAR: No, what religion do you think he is?
TAITZ: I don`t know. But it doesn`t matter.
BEHAR: Does this have anything to do with Israel at all?
TAITZ: Not at all. And as a matter of fact, if you read some of my articles, I criticized, for example, Bobby Jindal because he was hailed as the next president of the United States. And I said, just like Obama, Bobby Jindal who`s a staunch Republican cannot be the next president. Because and that`s the most important point.
Natural born -- he has to be a natural born citizen. Natural born citizen is one who is not only born in the country, but whose parents, both of them, are citizens of the country.
BEHAR: That`s not true. That is not a fact. You have to know.
TAITZ: I do know?
BEHAR: I mean, people come here illegally, let`s say they come over the Mexican border and she`s pregnant. Then they`re illegal, they have a baby. That baby is an American citizen.
TAITZ: Citizen but not natural born, that`s the whole point...
BEHAR: But they can be president if they`re born here.
TAITZ: No, no that`s the whole point. Because people need to understand the difference and I can show this...
BEHAR: No, not the picture. They can`t see it anyway.
TAITZ: And that`s the law of nations. That`s a legal treatise that was used when the Constitution was written. And it says, natural born citizen is one born in the country to two parents that are citizens. So if somebody who is born to an illegal...
BEHAR: You know what the first president of the United States, George Washington, he was a natural born citizen.
TAITZ: You know what that is very a good point, Joy.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
TAITZ: You`re absolutely right. They have a provision in Constitution it has to be natural born citizen or citizen at the time the constitution was adapted.
BEHAR: You seem to project a little anxiety. You have anxiety. Is it because you were in the Soviet Union for so long?
TAITZ: Well, I have anxiety in that -- a person who is committing massive fraud can become president. Look at this.
BEHAR: How come you never went after George Bush when he invaded a country without any real proof that they had weapons of mass destruction? That would have been a legitimate cause for you. This is crazy. No one agrees with you.
TAITZ: No.
BEHAR: The Governor of Hawaii doesn`t agree with you.
TAITZ: Never done though, it never happened, show me when did you say it never happened.
BEHAR: Does anyone have a -- what?
TAITZ: It never happened.
BEHAR: It was in "USA Today" article. You can look it up. Google it. Google it.
TAITZ: But look at this. Here`s some more information. Not only he was not legitimate for presidency, but we have found that he has used national data bases 39 different social security numbers. One of them...
BEHAR: You know -- I don`t know how you have time for this. You`re a busy dentist. You need to like -- this is like such a waste of your time.
TAITZ: You know, the legitimacy of the President of the United States...
BEHAR: You should have done it eight years ago, baby.
TAITZ: ... and commander in chief, it is very important.
BEHAR: Thank you anyway for coming on. Your husband is a big fan of mine. Good.
When we come back: the Obama administration measuring progress in inches, not miles -- whatever that means.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: President Obama got 53 percent of the vote last November and his party controls both Chambers of Congress. But when it comes to getting stuff done, it feels like getting bullied on the playground.
He`s got the Glenn Becks of the world to his right and impatient liberals to his left. So is he paralyzed in the middle? Helping me solve this mystery is Leslie Sanchez, Republican strategist and author of "You`ve Come a Long Way, Maybe;" and Lynda Carter, Democrat, actress and singer, and all-around beautiful girl whose new album is at last.
Before we get to Obama, welcome, first of all, ladies. Before we get there, what did you think of Orly, the woman who -- the birther lady.
LYNDA CARTER, ACTRESS & SINGER: Just kind of stunned that she`s still doing it.
BEHAR: She`s still doing it. She`s a dog with a bone.
CARTER: That`s ridiculous.
BEHAR: Leslie.
LESLIE SANCHEZ, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I`d agree with you. I think it`s an important issue to a small constituency, but I think a lot of people have resolved it. That`s just not going to go anywhere.
BEHAR: It`s not going to go anywhere.
SANCHEZ: No.
BEHAR: She kept insisting that I find the date and the proof of the Hawaiian government who said he was born there. I want to read this to people watching. On September 30, `08, the Hawaiian governor said "Barack Obama was born in my state and went to school there. Yet as a United States senator, I`ve never met him."
She said he was born there and went to school there. Is that enough? It`s not enough for this woman.
CARTER: I think it`s her 15 minutes of fame.
BEHAR: This woman -- is this what the direction that the...
CARTER: Is she born -- is she an American? Was she born here?
BEHAR: She`s not born here -- she was born in Russia.
CARTER: Oh, ok.
SANCHEZ: I don`t think that`s so much the issue. I think -- I don`t know where you`re going. But there are a lot of people who did have questions about that; that looked at the validity of that. But there`s been enough solid sources that have proven that`s really not an issue and more so, it`s not a politically winning issue.
BEHAR: No and it`s going nowhere.
CARTER: It`s going nowhere. It`s a waste of our time.
SANCHEZ: But it feeds into kind of a larger picture of the Obamas and who`s pulling the strings, what`s the truth?
BEHAR: Don`t you think it makes a lot of the right wing look paranoid, though?
CARTER: Yes.
SANCHEZ: A lot of people in the right wing are paranoid because of a lot of things that are happening. I think those two kind of things go together in some cases.
It`s not a bad thing. People are very concerned about this country. They want to make sure there`s good leadership. They`re not happy about the direction of the country. That`s the bigger issue.
CARTER: Were they happier under Bush?
SANCHEZ: No.
BEHAR: They`re just not happy.
Ronald Reagan -- St. Ronald Reagan, they were happy then. Everybody is always happy, the Republicans under Ronald Reagan.
SANCHEZ: We do. We love Ronald Reagan.
BEHAR: Donald Reagan, I called them.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Speaking of economics. Quickly -- I want to just touch on the health care bill a little bit because today it passed the senate finance committee, that Baucus bill. One Republican voted for it -- guess who -- Olympia Snowe. She`s the only one who`s rational over there.
Should that be Obama`s fight now? To get that passed.
I don`t particularly like the Baucus bill because it doesn`t have the public option. Don`t we need that.
CARTER: In my opinion, the only way -- I don`t know anything about it anymore than anyone else does that`s been following it. I can tell you, I really studied it. It`s a huge problem. As you said, it`s overwhelming.
BEHAR: What do they have against it is what I want to know?
What do they have against the public option?
SANCHEZ: The bigger issue is cost. I think, it comes down to that. There`s a strong sentiment in the country that people -- the neediest people need to be protected and have access to care; small businesses, low income people that are disadvantaged maybe even for a short period of time.
We have to ensure that these families don`t go into bankruptcy because of one health care disaster. We`re all one step away from that and many of us feel that way.
The reality is the costs that ensued. If you look, there`s a new survey that came out today that talked about it could be $4,000 per family...
CARTER: Without the public option.
SANCHEZ: ...without the public option. Just looking at what`s happened in the senate right now. So until you pull that away, a lot of people know politics, the devil in the details and we don`t want to be snookered in to some of effort that really costs family more.
BEHAR: But you know, just a general note about health care. Why do they have to make profit on health care? I don`t understand that. A lot of countries don`t make money on health care? It`s really kind of immoral, isn`t it?
SANCHEZ: Well, I think in a capitalist society, it`s incentivizing people to do the research and development, to find those new drugs. If they`re not going paid, at some point they`re not going to do it for altruistic reasons.
BEHAR: I don`t know if that`s true. Other countries have come up with plenty of new ideas in pharmaceutical.
SANCHEZ: Well, a lot of our pharmaceuticals go overseas and around the world at pennies on the dollar. There are benefits to that but they don`t pay the research. The Americans basically pay a lot of that research.
CARTER: How many times have we -- how many times have we tried to put forward a health care plan and the Republican Party has been the one to defeat it.
BEHAR: They`re obstructionists in my opinion.
SANCHEZ: Oh, no. Excuse me.
CARTER: It was the same thing for social security. It was the same thing for Medicare.
BEHAR: Well, they talk socialism. But you know, Medicare is socialism and Social Security is socialism and the fire department and the police department and people who pave the roads. They`re all socialism. They don`t have a problem with that. I don`t get it.
Let`s change the subject. Glenn Beck had his usual measured reaction after the White House called out Fox News. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GLENN BECK, FOX NEWS HOST: So we have the missiles pointed right at Fox. Let`s make sure everybody understands this is the enemy, America; everything that`s going wrong in the country happening right here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You know, I mean, what is up with Glenn Beck?
CARTER: It`s stunning.
BEHAR: And really, can you explain. You`re not in his camp, Leslie, I realize that. But what exactly is he up to?
SANCHEZ: I think he raises a lot of important issues.
CARTER: Are you serious?
SANCHEZ: Yes. You know he does. Even if you listen to his radio show years ago, he investigated what the government was doing.
CARTER: He calls himself an entertainer.
SANCHEZ: I don`t think...
BEHAR: I think he calls himself a rodeo clown.
CARTER: No, he calls himself an entertainer. I don`t really.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Rodeo clowns are funny. I have to take that away from him. Sorry. They`re very amusing.
SANCHEZ: I think he`s a likable person. He`s a good person.
CARTER: Do you think he`s -- a person like him is good for the country? The fear, the loathing, the racism; the absolute inane accusations, making Yom Kippur a Republican holiday?
BEHAR: Well, calling Obama a racist was really over the edge. That was ridiculous.
SANCHEZ: There`s a lot of things we`re going to agree.
(CROSS TALK)
CARTER: How do you defend -- how do you justify paying him big salaries and -- I don`t get it. I really don`t...
(CROSS TALK)
SANCHEZ: I don`t pay him -- I wrote him a check last week. I did not. I did not, kidding. Sorry, Glenn.
But what I`m saying is he does speak to a large percent of the electorate that is concerned about the direction of the country.
BEHAR: Really?
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Listen, ladies, look -- I`m going to keep you here. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Lynda Carter and Leslie Sanchez. Lynda, we just showed a clip from your show "Wonder Woman." You are curvy; you`re not built like a boy.
CARTER: No.
BEHAR: Today`s actresses are built like a boys, I think; a lot of them. They come on my other show, "The View," they`re so thin. They look as though they were raised like veal like in a corral where they stop them from eating for years and they just didn`t grow.
CARTER: Yes. They are -- I think it`s -- basically unhealthy. And I went through my really unhealthy period when I was as thin as I was for "Wonder Woman." I just didn`t -- you know, I exercised all the time and didn`t eat. And then when you stop that kind of behavior, you`re like...
SANCHEZ: Then you blow up.
BEHAR: Just like diet pills. Once you stop any of that stuff, you blow up. Drugs are like that.
I was saying it before, that I think Republican women are thinner than Democrats? Do you think so?
I know they`re blonder, usually.
SANCHEZ: Yes, I have the wrong hair color.
BEHAR: Yes, you really do. You`re sort of like a spy for them because nobody realizes that you`re really a Republican.
SANCHEZ: Yes. I get information.
CARTER: I think she`s really a Democrat.
SANCHEZ: Oh, no. Don`t say that.
BEHAR: No, she`s not. I`ve seen her many times with Wolf Blitzer. She`s no Democrat.
Designer Karl Lagerfeld, he likes girls skinny. He declared that no one wants to see round women. Here`s what he said in reaction to a magazine announcing they will use realistic women rather than skinny models.
He said, "These are fat mummies sitting with their bags of crisps in front of the television saying that thin models are ugly."
Is this guy -- what do you think of a statement like that?
CARTER: I think he -- was he ever a large person?
BEHAR: Yes. He was fat. He`s a self-hating fat person, in my opinion.
CARTER: And hides behind glasses.
BEHAR: Somebody who was fat and now he`s skinny and he hates fat. And he despises the fat in himself. That`s my psychological evaluation of this.
CARTER: It`s just unhealthy.
BEHAR: How does he know what women want, Leslie?
He says women want to see skinny women. No we don`t.
SANCHEZ: Well, I don`t think so any more. I think there was a time, for certain couture designers, when they had ladies who lunched and they do these beautiful dresses. In modern day, women want clothes that are comfortable but feminine; different types of style.
But body image is so important because we realize the impact it has on our daughters. If the mothers are going through the same experience, it`s having such an effect on these tweens and young girls who are looking at all the influences placed upon them.
BEHAR: It`s more critical now.
CARTER: I actually feel that I want to see these designers do things that protect us. And the skinny girl look and the skinny girl...
BEHAR: So fat women with armor.
CARTER: You know, just the gatherers and the things -- the three quarters -- the things that help us out.
BEHAR: Some designers are much better at that stuff.
CARTER: They need to help us out a little bit and not be so against us that we have to be toothpicks.
BEHAR: This other one, Christian Laputan (ph), I call him, he`s known for his five-inch heels, this guy, right? He says that the Barbie Doll has fat ankles. They`re going berserk over there, I think. This obsession with being thin is going to kill all of us.
CARTER: Most of the girls on runways or in the magazines, they do what basically is -- and us too, for that matter, a two-hour makeover every time you`re in front the camera. You do a makeover, you have someone you`re paying thousands of dollars to do you every day...
BEHAR: I know but without a makeover, I could not be here sitting with you.
Thanks, ladies. When we come back, save the wishing for your birthday candles. The reality of happiness is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: My next guest believes that positive thinking is another form of stupidity. The author of nearly 20 books, her latest is, "Bright-Sided: How the Relentless Promotion of Positive Thinking Has Undermined America." Please welcome Barbara Ehrenreich.
Welcome to the show, Barbara.
BARBARA EHRENREICH, AUTHOR, "BRIGHT-SIDED": Hi. Good to be with you, Joy.
BEHAR: I want you to explain right off the top to the audience why positive thinking is so stupid?
(LAUGHTER)
EHRENREICH: Well, I wouldn`t say stupid.
BEHAR: OK.
EHRENREICH: That`s a little mean.
BEHAR: It`s a bad idea.
EHRENREICH: You know, I think, it`s so much a -- it`s almost mandatory in this country. So, you can`t call it stupid. If your boss is giving you little motivational books and making you go to motivational speakers and everything at work, you don`t have any choice really. I first encountered it though when I was being treated for breast cancer eight years ago. And as I reached out for support on the Web and different ways, all I got back was not support but people saying, "You`ve got to be positive, you`ve got to embrace this disease."
BEHAR: You have to fight it.
EHRENREICH: No, they didn`t say fight.
BEHAR: They didn`t say that?
EHRENREICH: Well, yes, they used that language, too. But you have to embrace it like it`s a good thing that`s happened to you and you`re going to come out of it so much more spiritual and evolved and everything.
BEHAR: What`s the logic behind that?
EHRENREICH: None. None. I mean, any hardship you could say in some way builds character, but I`m not looking for character-forming experiences personally in my own life. And I was -- I was kind horrified at that. And what went along with it at the time was the idea that -- which is still very much with us -- is that you can overcome cancer, not only breast cancer but other kinds, if you have a positive attitude.
BEHAR: Yes, that`s right. Well, remember that study that was done years ago, I forget the guy`s name now. But he had cancer and he kept watching funny movies.
EHRENREICH: Yes.
BEHAR: And they said that that cured him.
EHRENREICH: Well, you know, we can -- a lot of people will look back and say, "Yes, I got through my cancer because I had a positive attitude." We don`t know that.
BEHAR: It`s as if.
EHRENREICH: I had a terrible attitude.
BEHAR: Yes.
EHRENREICH: I was angry the whole time.
(CROSSTALK)
EHRENREICH: And I`m still angry about, you know, why do we have this -- an epidemic of this disease?
BEHAR: Right.
EHRENREICH: And why are the treatments so barbaric?
BEHAR: Uh-hum. But you`re over it?
EHRENREICH: Knock on wood, yes.
BEHAR: Yes.
EHRENREICH: Yes, right.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: What about this book, "The Secret." Have you ever heard of this book?
EHRENREICH: Of course, I mentioned it in my book.
BEHAR: It`s a huge best seller. And basically what the author is saying that if you want something, mentally, you can attract things to you by wanting them, just wanting them.
EHRENREICH: Wouldn`t it be wonderful?
BEHAR: So, if you want a particular guy, he`s going to come to you.
EHRENREICH: No. It`s not like you have breast cancer and you think positively, you will recover from it. And we get that all the time. I mean, the secret was a pretty extreme version.
BEHAR: People love it.
EHRENREICH: Yes. It`s the law of attraction. Things will come to you just by thinking. You know, if you just concentrate right now on getting $100 in your wallet, it will come.
BEHAR: I know.
EHRENREICH: It`s more or less like that. I`m being a little crass.
BEHAR: But how is it different from magical thinking or religion?
EHRENREICH: It`s not different from magical thinking.
BEHAR: If you pray for something, you`ll get it. A lot of people believe that, too.
EHRENREICH: There`s this idea of an intermediary, you know, a deity who will give it to you. But this is just -- this assumes that your mind is so powerful. If you harness the powers of your mind, then you can get anything you want for yourself.
Now, that sounds wonderful, right? But the flip side then is that anything bad that happens to you happens because you had bad thoughts.
BEHAR: Well, see, that`s the good news and the bad news then.
EHRENREICH: So, you get, for example, the author of "The Secret" commenting about the tsunami of 2006 and saying probably the victims of the tsunami attracted to themselves by, you know, putting out a vibration on a kind of tsunami wavelength.
BEHAR: Somebody today on the show I do "The View," she was saying that people can determine what their deaths are going to be like. Can you imagine that? Like if you -- you will decide how your death is going to come. I really think that`s ridiculous.
EHRENREICH: Is that called a suicide?
BEHAR: There you go.
But, you know, regarding the creative visualization aspect of this, also, I can just tell you from my own point of view, it doesn`t work for me -- it doesn`t work for me sometimes because I`m a standup comic, right? So, one time, I was about to go on stage and this woman who wrote a book about the power of positive thinking and creative visualization, she said to me, because I`m always anxious, she said just visualize that you`re going to be hilariously funny and the audience is going to just love you.
I said to her, "Are you trying to kill my career?" Because that would be the worst thing that I could do, you know? To go out there with all this positive -- I go out there -- funny is negative. Negative is funny.
EHRENREICH: Yes, absolutely. Yes.
BEHAR: So, that did not work. But sometimes, creative visualization can work. I could say to myself, "OK, I want another talk show." I got one.
EHRENREICH: Well, that`s wonderful. I once.
(LAUGHTER)
EHRENREICH: I once had my wallet stolen and I kept trying to visualize it back there and the person.
BEHAR: Yes.
EHRENREICH: Concentrate and concentrate, it didn`t come back.
BEHAR: It didn`t come back. Now, you see that?
EHRENREICH: No, it didn`t.
BEHAR: Now, what about this guy, Joel Osteen, this preacher? He`s very, very popular, very wealthy. His philosophy is basically "feel good, anyone can be rich" sermons.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOEL OSTEEN, PREACHER: This year will be a year of your unprecedented favor, that we will see promotions, bonuses. That you will open up doors that no man can shut.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK, you know, what happened to -- he`s positive -- isn`t it very Calvinist that you think that if you`re -- you can attract money to yourself. This is like something that I don`t think Jesus was in to this type of wrap.
EHRENREICH: Well, it`s worse than that -- I mean, or better than that, I should say. Osteen can actually attract good parking spaces and he can attract the best restaurant.
BEHAR: (INAUDIBLE) that car, he wants a good parking space.
EHRENREICH: Yes. He can attract anything like that.
BEHAR: Yes.
EHRENREICH: And -- no, it is all very materialistic, and to me, has nothing to do with what I thought Christianity was about at all.
BEHAR: At all.
And what about the preachers who used to say that, you know, you were going to go to hell if you`re a sinner and you`re a bad person. You know, if you -- if you beat your wife, if you drink -- what happened to those preachers?
EHRENREICH: The ones who beat their wives can go to hell.
BEHAR: But is that not profitable to preach that?
EHRENREICH: Not anymore. That was the old Calvinism in 19th century. And really, our current cult of positive thinking arose for good reason, in response to that kind of thing, with people saying, no, wait a minute.
BEHAR: Yes.
EHRENREICH: I`m not -- I`m not a wretch, I`m not doomed to torment for the rest of eternity.
BEHAR: Yes.
EHRENREICH: And I`m not going to spend my life looking for sin.
BEHAR: Don`t bring me down, man.
EHRENREICH: Yes.
BEHAR: Yes.
EHRENREICH: So, it was a good response to that.
BEHAR: So, just as a general note, why is positive thinking bad for the country?
EHRENREICH: It`s delusional is the thing. I mean, it`s delusional in so far as we don`t need positive thinking. We don`t need negative thinking. We need realism.
BEHAR: Real.
EHRENREICH: You know, what I -- one of the reasons, not the only reason, but one of them, for the financial crash of `08.
BEHAR: Right.
EHRENREICH: . was that nobody was allowed in their finance companies and the banks to say, "Excuse me, I think our subprime exposure is too high." Or, "Excuse me, you know, this is crazy. We`ve got a whole economy based on a housing bubble."
BEHAR: Right. Reality.
EHRENREICH: People were fired for saying those things.
BEHAR: I see.
EHRENREICH: So we, kind of -- that`s why the book is called "Bright- Sided," you know? You would -- you don`t see things coming. It`s denial.
BEHAR: OK.
All right. I want to bring in Lisa Nichols, who`s a life coach and best-selling author of "No Matter What: Nine Steps to Living the Life You Love."
Lisa, you`ve been listening to Barbara. You disagree with some of her philosophy. Why?
LISA NICHOLS, AUTHOR, "NO MATTER WHAT": I do. You know, actually, Barbara, I respect your opinion and, you know, positive thinking has its place. But I agree with you when you say positive thinking isn`t enough. You have to go in to action.
You know, most people talk about just think about it, think about it. Well, the beginning is the thought. And then following the thought is an action.
Joy, you talked about you thought about wanting a talk show. You actually thought about it, wanted it, and then you did something about it, which is why we`re on your show right now. So, I believe that thinking plus action is critical.
BEHAR: But it`s a difference, I think, between what you`re saying. I had a goal -- a goal is a perfectly legitimate thing to have. I think Barbara would agree with that.
So, you have a goal. And then you implement the steps that will take you to the goal. I think that`s different from what you`re saying.
EHRENREICH: Well, I can be very determined even when I have no or very little hope of winning. I can still feel enormous determination.
BEHAR: Yes. Yes. But it`s different from this delusional idea, right? Lisa, what do you say to that?
NICHOLS: Well.
BEHAR: I mean, "The Secret," for instance, you believe in "The Secret," I take it.
NICHOLS: Well, I believe that in the first thing I need to do is set my intentions on something, what do I want to create.
BEHAR: OK.
NICHOLS: You know, Barbara, I totally can respect the fact that you say you can have a goal and be hopeless about it. I believe that when that mom, that single mother is thinking about providing for her children, she`s not thinking they`re going to go hungry. She wants to know that she`s going to have everything she needs for them. Then she needs to go to work to make sure she has everything she needs for them.
So, I believe that your life begins with the way you choose to think, however.
BEHAR: But if she can`t get a job, that same woman, she can`t be in this kind of delusion that there`s something wrong with her. I think that`s the point.
EHRENREICH: That`s what I would worry about.
BEHAR: Yes.
NICHOLS: Right. Well, you know what? I`m not -- I don`t say that there`s something wrong with you. I say that there`s a need to not only have the thought but to have the action. But the action comes when your thought is positive. You have to start with something. What are you rooted in?
BEHAR: OK.
NICHOLS: What are you rooted in?
BEHAR: I think, in a way, we agree on some of it. Some of it we don`t.
NICHOLS: Yes.
BEHAR: Thank you very much, ladies.
Coming up -- up next, fat baby, skinny models, and a piece of my mind just for you. You`re welcome. Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: This week, German designer Karl Lagerfeld defended using anorexic women as models.
And an insurance company denied coverage to a 4-month-old baby boy because they say he was too fat. Now, here`s the baby. I don`t know what they`re talking about. He`s adorable and he`s not fat. He`s big-boned.
Anyway, the baby weighed 8.25 pounds at birth. But he`s now 4 months old and he`s 17 pounds. He`s mother says that she is simply breastfeeding him. She must have half and half in those boobs because he`s healthy.
The insurance says the kid can`t have health insurance because he has a pre-existing condition.
He`s 4 months old. When did he develop a pre-existing condition? Was he eating Twinkies in uterus?
At the other end of the food chain are Lagerfeld`s fashion models who stagger down the runway between purging. Lagerfeld says fashion is not reality, that it`s about dreams and illusions. Here he is.
I`ll tell you, he`s got the illusion that he`s not a wax figure at Madam Tussauds. And I`m dreaming of fitting in to my size 12 jeans without Spanx.
So, what do we learn here -- other than that maybe this baby`s mother should breastfeed Karl Lagerfeld`s models. We learned never take nutritional advice from clueless insurance adjusters or morbid, weird, European designers. But that`s just me.
You know, I`d kill for a cannoli right now? Does anyone have.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: My next guest became a big screen sensation in movies like "Clueless" and "Batman & Robin." Then actress Alicia Silverstone put down her script, picked up a pen and out popped a book. "The Kind Diet: A Simple Guide to Feeling Great, Losing Weight, and Saving the Planet" is in stores now.
Wow! Welcome to the show, Alicia.
ALICIA SILVERSTONE, AUTHOR, "THE KIND DIET": Thank you.
BEHAR: You`re doing a lot in the diet, saving the planet and losing weight. That`s a tall order.
SILVERSTONE: Isn`t that exciting that it works that way?
BEHAR: And what makes this diet so kind?
SILVERSTONE: Well, it`s kind to yourself because you`re going first. And it`s kind to the planet as well. So it`s putting yourself first and realizing that you`re not good at anything or as good as you can be when you`re not feeling your best.
BEHAR: That`s true.
SILVERSTONE: So being mindful of what you eat and getting more energy and not having to take as many prescription drugs and see your doctor less.
BEHAR: What if you like prescription drugs?
(LAUGHTER)
SILVERSTONE: If you like them, you can continue taking them. If it`s for fun, recreational drugs are a whole different thing.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. She`s not so clueless.
What do you eat exactly?
SILVERSTONE: I eat all kinds of eggs in this book. It`s my recipe. Waffle, sausage and cheese panini sandwich.
BEHAR: There is no cheese in this book, or sausage.
SILVERSTONE: It tastes just as yummy.
BEHAR: You really believe that?
SILVERSTONE: I think you would really, really like it. You`re going to eat some stuff I`m going to test you on.
BEHAR: OK, we`ll test it in the next segment.
SILVERSTONE: And chorizo tacos.
BEHAR: But they`re not chorizo.
SILVERSTONE: No, they`re soy chorizo. And then chocolate peanut buttercups.
BEHAR: Are those real?
SILVERSTONE: They are real peanut butter, real chocolate. And traditional English breakfast. These pictures are amazing, no?
BEHAR: Wonderful book.
No fish in there at all?
SILVERSTONE: I don`t eat fish. In the book --
BEHAR: You don`t eat meat, dairy, or fish.
SILVERSTONE: I don`t. But what I`m trying to do with this book is this book is not for vegans and vegetarians. This book is for anyone who wants to feel their best and maybe lose weight and be their most vital.
And how you would do that is take baby steps. So I have a part of the book called "The Flirting Diet." So if you`re kind of casually dating, the whole concept of being more vegetarian or an aspiring vegetarian, so you don`t have to commit to it and make yourself crazy if you fall off the wagon. No judgment.
BEHAR: Now, you have a few good things in there. I like some of the food. I`m a meat eater.
SILVERSTONE: I do --
BEHAR: I do dairy. Is wine a fruit or a vegetable?
(LAUGHTER)
SILVERSTONE: Wine is definitely good.
BEHAR: It`s a fruit, right?
SILVERSTONE: Yes, it`s a fruit.
BEHAR: So you have pizza and coffee fudge brownies which look -- you have something called "raw balls." And they were inspired by your friend Juliana`s raw balls. You can eat them straight out of the freezer. Doesn`t that hurt Juliana?
(LAUGHTER)
SILVERSTONE: I love that you picked up on that. I love that you picked up on that. I think that`s very funny. And I love the raw balls.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: What are they, exactly?
SILVERSTONE: They are made of --
BEHAR: Walnuts and dates and maple syrup. So it`s really a dessert. Not for Juliana but still --
SILVERSTONE: Yes, it`s delicious.
BEHAR: And when you were 21, you became a vegan. And you loved pork chops. That was a big jump from pork chops to soy.
SILVERSTONE: It was. but the really cool thing is it`s not like the -- all of the things that are in this book that I`ve been talking about, like is my leak and pesto, that`s not less yummy than the pork chop. It`s just I didn`t know there`s all this possibility.
So I`m not deprived in any way. It`s not like when I stopped eating pork chops, I stopped eating food. I started discovering all these amazing, sophisticated tastes I didn`t know about. Now I`m eating really delicious things.
BEHAR: What were you raised?
SILVERSTONE: I had English parents and I was raised in San Francisco, so I had pork chops a lot.
BEHAR: You`re Jewish, so you are not supposed to be eating pork chops.
SILVERSTONE: But I was. And lots of bacon and -- you know.
BEHAR: And you`ve given that up now. So you`re sort of a kosher vegan.
SILVERSTONE: Yes, and I eat Tempe bacon now, which is really, really delicious.
BEHAR: I read an article about you in the paper yesterday that you leave notes for your neighbors saying turn off your spigots --
SILVERSTONE: They`re leaking.
BEHAR: And turn your lights out. Do you leave that all the time? Are you popular in this neighborhood?
(LAUGHTER)
SILVERSTONE: I never say my name on the note.
BEHAR: You don`t say your name on the note. Now they know who it is.
(LAUGHTER)
SILVERSTONE: But the other thing I do do is I knocked on the neighbor`s door and I said, hi, I`m sorry to bother you, but your lights have been on for like 24 hours a day for like months, and it`s driving me crazy.
She said it`s really killing you, huh? She said I`ll take care of it. And the next day I drove by and it was all fixed. So I don`t think she was mad at me and she probably saved a lot of money on her bills.
BEHAR: You don`t know. She might be talking about you behind your back.
SILVERSTONE: She might think I`m really annoying. But she did it, and that`s all I care about.
BEHAR: And you also say you can lose weight in this diet. Did you have a weight issue? I don`t remember seeing you in any shape but beautiful as the way you are now.
SILVERSTONE: I`ve been like this for long time. I feel like I`ve looked like this since I made the chance in my life.
BEHAR: So this change makes you lose weight. I`ve been thinking of developing a food allergy just to lose weight, because everyone who is allergic to gluten and yeast, I can`t eat that. They`re all skinny.
SILVERSTONE: Milk was designed to make a baby calf into a 400 pound cow. So if you want to develop a food allergy, develop a food allergy to dairy.
BEHAR: What about the French? The French live for dairy and they`re thin.
SILVERSTONE: I don`t know.
BEHAR: But they smoke.
SILVERSTONE: I have to do research on the French. All I know is what`s going on here, and it`s not good.
BEHAR: Will you stick around, because I want to taste this food.
SILVERSTONE: Yes.
BEHAR: More with the beautiful and talented Alicia Silverstone when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Alicia Silverstone, and we`re talking about her new book "The Kind Diet." Alicia cooked all this up during the commercial break and we`re about to indulge.
(LAUGHTER)
SILVERSTONE: This is at Candle 79, a great restaurant in New York. You have satan pikata (ph).
BEHAR: Satan pikata?
SILVERSTONE: Satan made this for you.
BEHAR: This isn`t veal. What is it? Is it rubber?
SILVERSTONE: Have it with all the stuff.
BEHAR: So it has some kind of spinach?
SILVERSTONE: I`m going to make you --
BEHAR: Like this, a mashed potato?
SILVERSTONE: Yes. And some sauce.
BEHAR: Potatoes are OK on this diet.
SILVERSTONE: Yes, it`s fine. OK.
BEHAR: It`s cold because they --
SILVERSTONE: It`s cold, unfortunately, but have this one.
BEHAR: What`s this made of?
SILVERSTONE: Wheat, but it`s pure protein with no cholesterol.
BEHAR: What do you mean pure protein?
SILVERSTONE: It`s pure protein.
BEHAR: From what, though?
SILVERSTONE: The process in which it`s made turns it into pure protein.
BEHAR: Really? OK, and what`s this? I notice you`re not eating it.
(LAUGHTER)
SILVERSTONE: I`m trying to get you -- I`ll eat it.
BEHAR: This is a veggie?
SILVERSTONE: Just get it in there.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: That`s good.
SILVERSTONE: Right.
BEHAR: What`s that?
SILVERSTONE: Satan chimichurri (ph).
BEHAR: Again with the Satan.
SILVERSTONE: This is a lemon caper sauce. It`s delicious.
BEHAR: Potatoes are OK on this diet, right?
SILVERSTONE: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s not a diet. It`s a lifestyle.
SILVERSTONE: The true definition of diet is a day`s journey. So I want to return that word back to its original definition, which means a way of thinking rather than being limited and so people can be free of all this calorie counting and mind screwing and be free.
BEHAR: When you go on the road or something, Alicia, you can`t bring this food with you. What do you do when you -- an airplane, for instances. What do you eat on an airplane?
SILVERSTONE: I bring my food on the airplane and order a vegetarian meal. On Virgin the meals are amazing, but not on all the other airlines.
BEHAR: That`s a good plug for them.
What is this? Is this supposed to be cake?
SILVERSTONE: Get in there. It`s peanut butter and chocolate mousse. Get the cookie part on the bottom.
BEHAR: There`s cookie on the bottom.
SILVERSTONE: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s a cookie.
SILVERSTONE: Cookie with peanut butter and chocolate. OK. Hang on. Did you get it?
BEHAR: Yes, I got a piece of cookie.
Well, this is good. This is a sweet. I like peanut butter. It`s very nice. This is like a real thing. This is not some made up protein.
(LAUGHTER)
SILVERSTONE: It`s not made up protein. It`s pure protein.
BEHAR: I mean, people talk about tofu few as being a protein. I would accept it if you say this is tofu, but it`s not.
SILVERSTONE: It`s not.
BEHAR: What`s Tempe?
SILVERSTONE: Tempe is pure protein, too.
BEHAR: Where does it come from?
SILVERSTONE: It comes from soybeans, but it`s been fermented, which is a good thing, and it turns into a really meaty, nutty texture.
BEHAR: I`m going to give this to the crew. Maybe they would like to try this. I always give them --
SILVERSTONE: I wish it was hot for you.
BEHAR: Like when the king would have the other people test it to see if there`s poison in it.
(LAUGHTER)
SILVERSTONE: Would somebody like to have one right now? I bet you guys would love it. Come here.
BEHAR: There are a bunch of hungry dogs over there.
SILVERSTONE: I want to see the reaction from one of you.
BEHAR: Frank will try it out.
SILVERSTONE: This is Satan chimichurri.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Satan chimichurri?
BEHAR: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s wonderful.
BEHAR: He likes it.
SILVERSTONE: Can you indulge?
BEHAR: I like this. This was good.
Thank you, Alicia, very much.
SILVERSTONE: Thank you.
BEHAR: Thanks to Alicia and all my guests tonight. Thank you for watching. Goodnight, everybody.
END
