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Senate Committee Passes Health Care Reform Bill; McChrystal tells Obama Failure May be Unavoidable in Afghanistan; Girl who Converted from Islam to Christianity Flees Parents She Says Will Kill Her; Ivanka Trump Plays to Win; Drug Injected Can Put Life on Hold and Put You in Suspended Animation

Aired October 14, 2009 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: And we're approaching the top of the hour on this Wednesday, the 14th of October. Thanks for joining us in the Most News in the Morning. I'm John Roberts.

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kiran Chetry.

We have a lot of big stories. We're going to be telling you that in the next 15 minutes. First, we start with health care reform, clearing a major hurdle in the senate. That ring a whole new level today because critics are already mounting an attack after the finance committee passed its version of health care reform.

Arguing that, it could make trips to the doctor more expensive. We're looking at where this heads now and also the new battle that starts today.

ROBERTS: President Obama meeting again today with his national security team to decide on a strategy for the war in Afghanistan. And the we're learning more about his top commander's request for reinforcements. General Stanley McChrystal reportedly telling the President, there is a high risk of failure no matter how many more troops he gets.

CHETRY: Also, cheating death. Dr. Sanjay Gupta special series continues today with what sounds like the stuff of science fiction.

ROBERTS: General Stanley McChrystal reportedly telling the president, there is a high risk of failure no matter how many more troops he gets.

CHETRY: Also, "CHEATING DEATH," Dr. Sanjay Gupta's special series, continues with what sounds like the stuff of science fiction, an experimental drug that can take critically injured soldiers to the brink and back. Sanjay shows us where this state of suspended animation is actually being tried and why.

We begin, though, with this major hurdle cleared this morning in the critical health care debate. After months of going back and forth, the Senate Finance Committee approved a broad, ten-year, $829 billion bill that would remake the nation's health care system.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid now has to blend this measure with another that was passed by the HELP committee in July. The different paths of reform have divided the Democrat party.

We're all over this developing story this morning, Brianna Keilar live on Capitol Hill with a look at where all of this is going now. One of them has a public option, one doesn't, and that's a big debate that still continues -- Brianna?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, and that next phase continuing today, Kiran, combing that Finance Committee bill which does not have the public option with a more liberal bill that came oust Senate HELP committee back in July.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR (voice-over): With millions of eyes around the country watching, the call came down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 14 ayes, nine nays.

BAUCUS: The ayes have it.

KEILAR: The Senate Finance Committee's hotly debated plan for health care reform passed thanks to 13 Democrats and one lone Republican, Olympia Snowe of Maine.

SEN. OLYMPIA SNOWE, (R) MAINE: Was this bill all that I would want? Far from it. Is it all that it can be? No. But when history calls, history calls.

KEILAR: The plan has an $829 billion price tag. It prevents insurance companies from denying coverage based and preexisting conditions and requires all Americans to have insurance. That would be done in part by expanding Medicaid and offering subsidies to people who can't afford it.

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are now closer than ever before to passing health reform, but we're not there yet. Now is not the time to pat ourselves on the back. Now is not the time to offer ourselves congratulations. Now is the time to dig in and work even harder to get this done.

KEILAR: And the road to getting health care done is still long and winding.

The first hurdle, a government-run insurance plan. The so-called public option isn't in the Finance Committee's bill, but it is in another Senate proposal. Those plans now have to be blended together, and lawmakers remain divided.

Another big sticking point -- paying for reform by taxing high- end private insurance plans. Critics of that idea are already sounding off, including labor unions. Many of them gave up pay increases to get better health care in the first place.

And this morning, less than 24 hours after the Finance Committee's vote, their opposition is in black and white in the morning papers. (END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: And this is that full-page ad appearing in today's "Washington Post" along with other newspapers endorsed by 28 different unions, a key constituency, of course, of those Democrats who are going to be blending those bills.

And sources tell me, Kiran, that we're not expecting to see the Senate take up that blended bill. So when they have really one Senate bill, we're not expecting them to take that up until the week after next, the week of October 26th.

CHETRY: Brianna Keilar for us this morning. And one of the other questions that a lot of people are asking is, who are the big players at the table moving ahead? Besides Olympia Snowe, are Republicans basically sidelined now?

KEILAR: It appears at this point that they are, Kiran, and what we do know is this meeting that's going to take place today will include Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. He'll be refereeing this process.

And also, it's a pretty small group. Senator Max Baucus, who, of course, shepherded the Finance bill through, and Senator Chris Dodd, who, in the absence of Senator Kennedy, shepherded that Senate HELP committee bill through.

So they will also be meeting with some White House officials, but it's a pretty small table. Senator Olympia Snowe will have a seat at that table later, but we understand not today.

CHETRY: All right, Brianna, thanks.

Also at 7:30 Eastern, we are going to be talking to the only Republican on the committee to vote yes on the plan. The "it" lady you could say in Washington, Olympia Snowe. That's coming up in just about 25 minutes on the Most News in the Morning.

President Obama meets again today with his national security team, promising to make a decision with weeks on sending more troops to Afghanistan.

The president's top commander is recommending a surge of 40,000 soldiers, but also on the table, a scenario for sending in as many as 80,000 reinforcements.

But the Associated Press is now reporting General Stanley McChrystal has informed the president that there is a high risk of failure no matter how many troops are deployed.

Our Barbara Starr is live at Pentagon for us this morning. And Barbara, how viable is this scenario of a surge of up to 80,000 troops under these circumstances?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, John, most people will tell you that General McChrystal has put a number of options on the table, but his recommendation is that 40,000 range for one reason -- sustainability, as you say.

You know, at this point, it's another day, another meeting at the White House. No decisions yet. Haven't we all said that before? And you begin to hear these other numbers emerging.

President Obama has put down a public marker about some of his thinking about all of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: The work continues in Afghanistan. We just want to make sure that at all times, not only the young men and women who are already there, but also any additional young men and women both military and civilian who might be working there, are served by a policy that's sustainable and effective.

And I'm confident that we're going to be able to achieve that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: "Sustainable," let's go back to that word, John. What the army and Marine Corps are saying behind the scenes is if they have to put large numbers, tens of thousands of additional troops into Afghanistan, they may not be able to meet the promise to the troops that they would have a year at home with their families in between deployments.

And if they have to back away from that promise, that could be a real morale breaker. And that's something that is being given a lot of serious thought, making sure they don't break the promise, because while everybody waits for this huge decision that will be heard around the world, it is the tens of thousands of military families and the troops who are really going to be affected. That's the real bottom line - John.

ROBERTS: They've been affected for so many years, too, Barbara, in Afghanistan and Iraq.

So we talk about Afghanistan and a troop surge there. But what to do about Pakistan, because General McChrystal suggests that the Taliban finds reasonable safe haven there and that's where the area from which they launch a lot of attacks into Afghanistan, and that the Taliban is much more of a force to be reckoned with than al Qaeda is?

STARR: You know, absolutely. A lot of military commanders will tell you behind the scenes they find it a bit mystifying that this rhetoric coming out of Washington about fighting al Qaeda.

Of course, al Qaeda, the 9/11 threat, everyone understands that. But across the border in Pakistan right now, U.S. officials are growing more concerned by the day about the Taliban.

There are two Taliban factions there, one led by Mullah Omar. You'll remember him from the old days in Afghanistan. Now in Pakistan, growing in strength, reconstituted even to the point where it is said by some that he is protecting al Qaeda, a force to be reckoned with.

Another Taliban faction in Pakistan known as the TTP. U.S. military sources say they are growing increasingly concern about the TTP. They're launching attacks in Pakistan's. That is a group that is determined to destabilize that important nuclear ally.

The Taliban in Pakistan are getting a lot of attention. Nobody yet very clear how to deal with it.

ROBERTS: Barbara Starr at Pentagon for us this morning. Barbara, thanks.

CHETRY: All right, now we're eight minutes past the hour.

Also new this morning, Rush Limbaugh is hitting back at critics who oppose his bid to buy a stake in the St. Louis Rams. The conservative talk show host says he is the victim of "totally made-up and fabricated quotes attributed to him."

Meanwhile, the owner of the Indianapolis Colts says that he would vote against Limbaugh. NFL's Commissioner Roger Goodell says Limbaugh's divisive comments would not be tolerated.

ROBERTS: They are bracing for the worst in southern California today. Right now a powerful storm is threatening to unleash dangerous flooding and mudslides in areas that were ravaged by wildfires over the summer.

The storm is expected to dump three to six inches of rain in that area. Flash flood watches in effect in and around Los Angeles County. People stacked sandbags and heavy concrete barriers against hillsides just trying to keep the earth in place there.

CHETRY: And first lady of California Maria Shriver in some hot water after she was caught driving while apparently talking on her cell phone. That's a violation of the hands-free cell phone law, which her husband Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger supported. After tmz.com posted the pictures, the government tweeted, "There's going to be swift action."

(LAUGHTER)

CHETRY: Whoops!

ROBERTS: Maria, get to the chopper.

CHETRY: It's so funny that you can't go anywhere these days without getting either videotaped or snapped by a paparazzi lens. And now there are some new laws that actually Governor Schwarzenegger himself signed. Could they be changing things for celebrities who feel hounded? Kareen Wynter is going to tell us about that.

It's nine minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: It's 13 minutes past the hour.

Straight ahead on AMERICAN MORNING, Senator Olympia Snowe from Maine the lone Republican crossing party lines and voting with the Democrats on the health care reform bill. So why did she support it? We'll hear from her in just 15 minutes.

ROBERTS: Welcome back to Most News in the Morning.

New details on a story that has been making headlines across the country. An Ohio teenager ran away to Florida after she says her Muslim father threatened to kill her when she converted to Christianity.

Now, in a very bizarre twist in this case, the court is ordering the teen back to Ohio. Our Susan Candiotti has been following this story. This is quite a turn in this case.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I know.

ROBERTS: Particularly after the governor of Florida, Charlie Crist, said that he hopes the state does everything to keep her there.

CANDIOTTI: Exactly right. The case just continues to stir passions on both sides. And, as we're not surprised to learn, it's not over yet.

Now, the court proceedings are spanning two states, Rifqa Bary in Orlando, Florida, her parents, a judge, and a child welfare representative on the phone from Ohio. A judge in Florida has ruled it is now time to change all of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE DANIEL DAWSON, ORANGE COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT: It is this court's opinion that the sooner that these parties get into one courtroom in front of one judge who's going to have jurisdiction for the remainder of the case, the better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CANDIOTTI: The case is now moving to Ohio, but before Rifqa can be sent back, the judge has demanded two things: proof that Rifqa is in the country legally, something her parents have so far failed to provide, and a guarantee that the 17-year-old can continue taking classes online once she leaves Florida.

Now, if those conditions are met, Rifqa will be sent back to Ohio in state custody, not back to her parents yet, who, Rifqa insists, want to kill her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RIFQA BARY, CONVERTED TO CHRISTIANITY: They have to kill me. My blood is now hilal, which means that because I am now a Christian, I'm from a Muslim background, it's an honor -- if they love God more than me, they have to do this. And I'm fighting for my life. You guys don't understand, and I -- they don't understand.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CANDIOTTI: But a Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigation has found no credible threats to Rifqa. And when I spoke with her parents last month, they said they love their daughter and would never hurt her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMED BARY, RIFQA'S FATHER: We did not fight over it. We just asked and then that's the end of it.

CANDIOTTI: Your daughter says that at one point you held up a laptop and said, I'm going to kill you.

M. BARY: It's not at all true. It's not at all true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CANDIOTTI: ... moved to the U.S. in 2000 from Sri Lanka to get medical care for Rifqa when she lost sight in her right eye after an accident. As part of the court ruling, Rifqa and her family will all undergo psychological testing and counseling, and Rifqa will remain in foster care in Florida until then and will remain in foster care in Ohio until everything is sorted out.

That's the least that her family wanted, to get her back to Ohio, but Rifqa's lawyer says she wants to stay in Florida. So again, the saga continues.

And Florida investigators are still looking into a complaint lodged by Rifqa's parents that this couple in Florida, a preacher and his wife, took her in for several days without telling her parents that she was all right. And someone anonymously did pay for her bus ticket down to Florida, picked her up and the whole thing. So, it certainly appears the whole thing was planned from the very start.

CHETRY: And she's 17. As you said, there's a lot more to be sorted out. She could be 18 before it's all over, and then she can do whatever she wants, right?

CANDIOTTI: As we all know, this cases can drag on for months and months. She turns 18 next August, so you're right. All this may be a moot point.

ROBERTS: Right. When does it all happen, the transfer back to Ohio?

CANDIOTTI: Well, who knows, because first, they have to, again, prove that they are legally in the United States.

ROBERTS: Right.

CANDIOTTI: Imagine.

ROBERTS: We'll keep following this at the desk.

CANDIOTTI: It's not over.

ROBERTS: Susan, thanks so much for that.

CHETRY: Still ahead, Ivanka Trump, she is the daughter of "The Donald." She's going to be talking to Christine Romans one-on-one about her book, her business savvy and her recipe for success.

It's 17 past the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: This is Denver. Quite foggy this morning. Thirty-nine degrees right now. Some sun a little bit later. Going up to a high of 64 degrees in the Mile High City.

And welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. Christine Romans joins us now and she had a chance to sit down with a very fascinating young woman. Ivanka Trump, the daughter of "The Donald".

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: The daughter of "The Donald," Donald Trump was his own personal brand. He started real estate, right, and then went into media. He has made this personal brand and now his daughter, Ivanka Trump, has made her own personal brand as well and has become some sort of a household name.

She was in "Celebrity Apprentice." She's also got a book out now called "The Trump Card." Can you imagine having sort of a book with advice for being a young woman in business at the young age of 27?

She was one of if not, the youngest serving corporate director of a publicly traded company in this country at the age of 25. She walks into a board room and became a seating director for the first time.

So I sat down with her on the eve of this book coming out and I asked her, you know, what she's learned, really, over the past few years, and in particular in real estate. It's been a big 180. When she came into this business, it was a boom. Everything worked. And now, it's very different.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IVANKA TRUMP, AUTHOR, "THE TRUMP CARD": I've learned more in the last 18 months than I'd learned in my previous 26 years on the planet. Just in terms of business and of life and of -- and of -- and just the ebb and flow of opportunity. And it is a tough economy out there by any stretch of the imagination, and in that economy emerges some of the greatest opportunities.

When things were piping hot three years ago, that was not the time to be doing deals. As counterintuitive at that may sound, but, you know, many people who transacted at the top of the market are now realizing that there wasn't a lot of value in the deals that they were -- that there were buying into and the companies they were inquiring. So really, today is the time to shore up your resources and to start to look for that opportunity amongst the turmoil.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: She says if you've got cash, if you've got money, if you've got money saved, whether you're a business or whether you're a person, if you've got money saved this is the time to be taking these opportunities. That's what she's talking about.

It's really a really wide-ranging interview. You'll see the whole thing on "YOUR MONEY" Saturday at 1:00 p.m. Eastern, Sunday at 3:00.

But we talk about everything from her upcoming wedding. We talked about certain things in the book. She's very personal in the book about some things, her advice to young women in business.

You know, in the book she -- go ahead.

CHETRY: It's interesting she responds to the criticism that, yes, sure you're successful. You had -- you know, you had a lot of things handed to you because of your father.

ROMANS: Sure.

CHETRY: What does she say about that?

ROMANS: I said, you know, look, a lot of people are just going to say she's a rich girl who had a leg up. She said I did have a leg up and I put that leg on the ladder and I climbed the ladder. And she said a lot of people are given that leg and do nothing with it.

And it's true. I said, you know, there are a lot of very rich, you know, well-connected young women and young men who do nothing with their success, or do nothing with the key that they've been handed. She fully recognizes she's been handed a key, and she has a start that most people in the country don't have. But she says she's a hard worker.

I mean she works six days a week. You know, she's a hard worker and she says she has taken that and is trying. She definitely -- 27, to have such a refined personal brand already I think is really interesting.

ROBERTS: She seems to be an illustration of that old adage that the apple does not fall far.

ROMANS: It's very true. It's very true. She -- she could be -- I'm not going to get ahead of it, but she could. If she keeps playing her "Trump" card right to use a pun, I mean she could be as famous if not more famous than her father, if she keeps moving in this direction.

CHETRY: I bet they're really proud. Her mom, too. Thanks, Christine.

ROMANS: Yes. CHETRY: Still ahead, we're going to be talking more about cheating death. Dr. Sanjay Gupta has been doing a fascinating series about all the different medical advances that have made what once seemed like a sure death sentence. Not the case. He's talking about suspended animation, next.

Twenty-four minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: It is now 26 1/2 minutes past the hour. Coming up in just a minute on AMERICAN MORNING, we're asking, is blackface ever OK?

There's a controversial new layout on the cover of "Vogue" magazine, "French Vogue that is. It shows a white model in blackface and body paint. Editors were calling it high fashion. What do you think? Jason Carroll has the full story in just 15 minutes.

ROBERTS: Cheating death. Even the words sound impossible. So imagine this, what if there was a drug that could be injected into critically wounded soldiers to force them into a state of sort of suspended animation and then later bring them back from the dead?

Sounds like the stuff of science fiction, but it's real. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta with us now from Washington to this morning to show us where it's actually happening and why.

Good morning, Doc.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. It does sound like science fiction. But if you sort of think about all these stories this week, a lot of them are about buying some more time. A new type of CPR to buy more minutes, hypothermia to buy hours and now suspended animation, as you mentioned, to buy even more time. I can tell you, which you're about to hear is actually happening. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA (voice-over): Mark Roth is a biologist in Seattle. He's at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center. Here in this lab he developed the approach of cheating death through suspended animation.

Is the premise that if we can buy doctors or health care professionals a little bit more time?

MARK ROTH, FRED HUTCHINSON CANCER RESEARCH CENTER: The whole emergency medicine buying, you know, having to take -- it's a time- dependent thing and somebody either has enough time or they don't.

GUPTA: Enough time, but there's something else. For Roth, the fight against death is also personal. It's grounded in a family tragedy.

What happened to your daughter?

ROTH: She passed away when she was 1 after spending a month in the ICU following a heart surgery.

GUPTA (on camera): Do you think that had an impact on your choice of scientific research?

ROTH: Oh, it did. Yes. Yes. So I spent -- there's things that happened. You get -- it focuses the mind when certain things happen to people. And it certainly focused mine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: And let me tell you specifically what he's doing in the laboratory. He's actually injecting what would otherwise be a poisonous gas known as hydrogen sulfide (ph) and stripping all the oxygen away from various animals. And then he's providing a fuel to try to give and cells in the body that would otherwise die some sort of fuel. So he's stopping oxygen, providing fuel essentially putting these animals into a state of suspended animation. And he's planning on doing this in pigs and eventually recruiting people for human trials as well, John.

ROBERTS: Sanjay, I mean, medically, how does that work? You know, we all believe that if you take away the oxygen life ends. What's this fuel that he's putting in to keep cells alive?

GUPTA: Right. You know, a couple things to keep in mind is that living creatures for most of our existence on this planet, we didn't actually use oxygen to try and fuel ourselves. There were other substances that we could that with. So with hydrogen sulfide, you're actually stopping the oxygen and then he's using ketones, which are a fuel substrate that's been used in the past historically to try and fuel cells to provide fuel so the cells don't die. Stop oxygen completely and provide those ketone bodies, and he puts it all into a single sort of shot so it can, you know, once stop the oxygen and increase the fuel. It seems to work in animals. Obviously, it's going to be a few years at least before they try it in humans. But he's pretty convinced he can do it.

ROBERTS: What effect is there putting somebody in suspended animation? You just wait until the appropriate treatment comes along? Or would you say you're buying moments. If somebody was in an emergency situation, they were injured or something, how does putting them in state of suspended animation help them?

GUPTA: Well, you know, interestingly enough, the way it was sort of first outlined for us, when we were researching for the book, you imagine someone who gets a mortal wound, for example, in a war zone. It would take a long time to get that person to a place where they could actually be treated. So you try triage in the field that is simply not working.

You imagine injecting a shot into someone's body, if at once, you know, sort of puts them into a state of suspended animation. So their hurt stops. They stop spontaneously breathing. They turn gray. They look dead but in fact they are just suspended. That buys you a lot of time. As soon as you can, you get that patient on a chopper, fly them to a plane, put them in a hospital where everyone is ready, poised to go, and reanimate, by giving oxygen and then the doctors and nurses can go to work. That's the sort of scenario that's for us.

ROBERTS: It definitely sounds like science fiction. You can tell that he is very committed to this. You know, the emotion still just under the surface there when he talks about his daughter.

Sanjay, thanks.

GUPTA: Thanks, John.

ROBERTS: Coming up tomorrow, by the way, the high school football ref who collapsed in cardiac arrest on the field. No heartbeat, nearly three minutes. See what he says he witnessed as he felt himself slipping away to the other side. His emotional interview is tomorrow right here on AMERICAN MORNING.

And don't forget, this Saturday and Sunday night at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, join Dr. Sanjay Gupta as he examines the medical miracles that are saving lives in the face of death, only on CNN, the worldwide leader in news.

We're crossing the half hour now. And here are this morning's top stories.

The Senate Finance Committee passing its version of health care reform with the help of a lone Republican. Now it's up to the Senate majority leader to blend the bill with one that was passed earlier by the Senate health committee. That measure contains a government-run public insurance option. The finance committee bill didn't. Majority leader Harry Reid hoping that the blended bill will be debated by the full Senate on October 26th.

CHETRY: Well, a bill that would send $7.5 billion in aid to Pakistan over the next five years has angered the Pakistan military. Senator John McCain cosponsored the measure. And had to meet yesterday with Pakistan's foreign minister. Language in the bill has raised concern about the U.S. possibly trying to interfere with Pakistan's sovereignty. Senator Kerry promising a written explanation to go with the bill to clear any misinterpretations of it.

ROBERTS: And the U.S. Navy is considering letting women serve on submarines. Right now that's strictly a man's domain, supporter saying it's a matter of equal opportunity and fairness. But the idea is getting some pushback from sailors, and their wives. They claim men and women being in close quarters for weeks at a time on something like a submarine is a recipe for sexual harassment cases and ruined marriages.

CHETRY: Well, back to our top story this morning. Health care reform clears a major hurdle in the Senate. Entering a whole new level today. The Senate Finance Committee approved a broad 10-year $829 billion bill to remake the nation's health care system. But even some members who voted for it say it is far from perfect. In fact, the only Republican to vote in favor of the measure, Olympia Snowe of Maine, joins us now live from Capitol Hill with more on why she decided to vote this way. Welcome, Senator.

SEN. OLYMPIA SNOWE (R), MAINE: You're welcome. Good morning.

CHETRY: You certainly have become a household name during this entire health care debate. They're calling you the "it" senator right now on the hill. But tell us a little bit about what it's been like for you? So many people courting your vote and watching how you voted on this measure.

SNOWE: Well, you know, I didn't consciously set out to be the only Republican who interestingly enough, it all developed as part of the bipartisan group that the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee Senator Baucus had convened four months ago to build bipartisan support for a bill and it turned out that I was the one that - the remaining along with the Democrats, but that doesn't mean to say that Republicans don't have some good ideas that should be incorporated in this legislation.

So I believe in solving problems, in trying to work through the legislative process to get it done. It's a monumental issue. It's very complex. It takes time. It should take time. That's what the American people expect. So we've just got to give it the time and the patience that it deserves to work through the legislative process to get this, to get this to be in the best place for the best policy possible on such an issue that affects every American.

CHETRY: It seems that's going to be a hard bar to meet, to pick the best possible, because there are so many groups out there who have their one issue that's make or break. I mean, take a look at even in the way these bills came down. The Senate Finance Committee is the only one that does not include a public option, and there are many in the House. All three of their bills do include it and there are many who say it's a public option or bust. Where do you stand on that?

SNOWE: Well, you know, I'm opposed to a public option, because I think the government has an inherent disadvantage, and disproportionate advantage at that against the private sector, and I think that we should leverage the private sector to perform by prohibiting egregious practices on the part of the insurance industry of the past and denying people coverage on so many levels.

We're going to end all of those practices, at the same time we're going to provide tax credits and subsidies and then we're going to make a transparent marketplace through these exchanges for individuals and small businesses and to provide affordable health insurance. I think that's the preferable rule. I would support a trigger as a fallback in the event affordable plans do not materialize in any given region of the country as we did with the prescription drug program.

We never had to utilize it. It was so much competition, that it was never triggered. I think that's the preferable way to go in that regard. I'm surprised that the insurance industry, frankly, you know, in trying to engineer such opposition, because our bill did not include the public option and provides tax credits and subsidies of almost $500 billion of the purchasing insurance products.

That certainly should help their business and with almost 30 million new customers. So I think that hopefully they should reconsider in a way that they've gone about trying to provide opposition to this legislation.

CHETRY: It's not just the insurance companies lobby there. The latest ones that have down, but there's also some opposition from labor unions. In fact, they're planning on coming out again as well, because they do not like two of the measures in this bill.

Part of it they don't like is the tax on high cost insurance policies. They also would like to see a public option. You know, what do you do when there are a lot of competing voices out there who are not going to be happy with whatever it is that you guys will ultimately decide on?

SNOWE: Well, you know, that's the challenge. And I've said the last century was riddled with failed attempts, but we're going to have to overcome the difficulties. Just because it's a tough issue doesn't mean that it obviates our responsibility to make it happen. This is not a solution searching for a problem.

With that rising health care costs is going to devastate the health care system very shortly. I think it's undeniable in seeing what's manifested in the health care premiums that have risen 131 percent over this last decade. Wages have only gone up 38 percent. Inflation is only 28 percent. So that gives you an idea.

CHETRY: Right.

SNOWE: Of how dramatic the costs are in health care. So we have to reconcile those differences. Everybody has to pitch in. The insurance industry has made 500 percent gross in their profits over the last decade. As far as labor unions are concerned, they are talking about that excise tax on high cost insurance plans. And we have a lot of built-in mechanisms, that we're talking about plans over $21,000 or $27,000.

(CROSSTALK)

CHETRY: And the labor unions don't like that either though. Some of the members say they've gave up higher wages in an effort to get better benefits. So they don't like that. I know there's a lot of challenges, but you know, the thing that was fascinating to me is that besides you, Republicans seemed to be sidelined on this health care reform debate.

You said yesterday, the consequences of inaction dictate the urgency of Congress, and that they need to take every opportunity to show the capacity to solve this issue. But are your fellow Republicans then making a major error by sitting this one out?

SNOWE: I don't know that they're sitting it out. They had offered a lot of amendments and I think, have very good ideas that I supported. CHETRY: But in the end, you're the only one who voted yes. Everyone else voted no.

SNOWE: Yes, that's true.

CHETRY: They're not really taking part in anything that...

SNOWE: Right.

CHETRY: That would ultimately become law.

SNOWE: Right, but hopefully, that that could change, and I think that's where I think the Democratic leadership and the president has to begin to build those bridges and see what can happen. Among Democratic senators, I'll be working to collaborate on different issues in providing significant improvements to the bill along with Republicans and seeing what we can do to make this better, because that's what it's all about. It's understanding these differences.

You're right to underscore the real challenge here. There are so many different facets to it that it's easy to attack one facet and yet it's all integrated and interrelated. I think we can work that out. But we just have to give this a reasonable period of time to do it, and that's why I think Chairman Baucus and the Senate Finance Committee was right in undertaking this process of convening this group of six - the three Democrats, three Republicans more than four months ago.

We were involved in very intensive discussions on these issues and I think it's reflected how much time this issue takes and we should give it the time that it deserved to get it right, and to address people's concerns and to allay their fears. That's the only way I think that optimally we can get this done.

CHETRY: And I know that you guys have had very civil discussions. But when we had Senator Grassley on the show yesterday, he said that the reason he changed his mind and then felt that he couldn't support this is because he heard from his constituents who were very upset about some aspects of this including the mandate that everybody has to either buy insurance or face a fine.

SNOWE: Right.

CHETRY: He's saying that he was just listening to his constituents and not everybody wants health care reform. What about your fellow GOPers who are doing what their districts want them to do?

SNOWE: Well, I don't disagree with that. I oppose the individual mandate and I have made changes in the committee with Senator Schumer and I hope we revisit that issue as I said yesterday on the floor. It's not about punishing and penalizing people, it's about our responsibility to deliver affordable health care.

But that doesn't mean to say that there isn't a problem. It's the rising health care costs. And that's why I drew the analogy to the "Titanic" and it really is similar to turning the "Titanic" around before it hits an iceberg. We have an iceberg out there. If today's average employer family plan is $13,300. In a decade from now, it's $30,800, we have a problem.

CHETRY: Right.

SNOWE: We're expected to spend $33 trillion in health care over the next decade. We cannot reorder $829 billion within the health care system to make it work for everybody. I think we can if we put our mind to it. And if we don't, it's going to overtake us, it's going to have a crisis and then it's going to be really difficult to turn this around on a dime.

CHETRY: Well, Senator Olympia Snowe, very great to the have you on the show today. Thanks for giving us your input.

SNOWE: Thank you. Thank you.

ROBERTS: After nearly two decades apart, Jaycee Dugard says she is happy to finally be back with her family and have their unconditional love and support. A statement from Jaycee and the first photos of her as an adult are being posted on "People" magazine's Web site this morning.

Dugard was 11 when police say she was taken from outside her south Lake Tahoe home. Phillip Garrido and his wife, Nancy, have been charged with kidnapping and rape and holding Jaycee captive in their backyard for 18 years. There you see it. the very first picture of her as she appears now as an adult.

Forty-two minutes after the hour. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.

French "Vogue" magazine is famous for pushing the fashion envelope. But maybe they pushed it a bit too far. A photo spread in this month's issue has triggered outrage over a white model posing in blackface.

Is it high fashion or is it highly offensive? Our Jason Carroll is following the controversy and he joins us this morning. Hey, Jason.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. High fashion, highly offensive? We'll see.

You know, pop culture is one of the United States' most influential exports, but what happens when a once-popular image falls out of the mainstream in this country because it's deemed offensive? Blackface is an example how it can still find an audience internationally.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL (voice-over): The imagery, an embarrassing chapter in American entertainment - blackface. Popularized decades ago in minstrel shows and movies, like 1927's "The Jazz Singer" but not a relic of the past.

Pictures from French "Vogue's" latest edition showing a white Dutch model in blackface and body paint, wearing ethnic-inspired clothes. Editors may say it's high fashion, but it was something far more offensive to most of those we showed it to.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think anybody in this day and age splatters black paint on a white face and expects, you know, everybody to just be OK with it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They think they're pushing the envelope, but, really, they're just being offensive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's clearly for fashion. You know, it's - it's not made for any political purpose.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I mean, I think there are a lot of beautiful black women who could have probably played that role.

CARROLL: French "Vogue" did not return our calls for comment. Critics say, without context, readers are left to assume the worst.

CHARLTON MCILWAIN, PROFESSOR, RACE AND MEDIA, NYU: What you see simply is another white performer being dressed up in blackface for the amusement, for the profit of whites.

CARROLL: The issue coming a week after a popular Australian talent show ran into trouble for this. American judge Harry Connick Jr. criticized the group's depiction of the Jackson 5. The show's host later apologized

HARRY CONNICK, JR., MUSICIAN: You. know, we've spent so much time trying to not make black people look like buffoons, that when we see something like that, we take it really to heart.

CARROLL: Outside the United States, it's not just Australia where blackface is still entertainment. In Japan, a popular soul group called Gosperats sells out shows. In Mexico an offensive- looking comic book character ended up one of the country's national stamps in 2005. Despite criticism from the White House, the stamp was never pulled.

MICHAELA ANGELA DAVIS, BET CONTRIBUTOR: While we've come a long way, baby, baby, we had a long way to come from, and we still have a long way to go in terms of our global image.

CARROLL: Pop culture experts say other countries may not have experienced civil rights movements and national conversations about race the way America has and therefore may not have the same sensitivities. So, it might be a while before blackface finally fades from the limelight.

(END VIDEOTAPE) CARROLL (on camera): Well, that particular issue of French "Vogue" was supposed to celebrate supermodels that featured names like Kate Moss and Claudia Schiffer. No black supermodels actually made that cut. You know, there's also some who argue that here in the United States, blackface has been used not too long ago in a way that was actually successful. I mean, look at the movie "Tropic Thunder" - do you remember that?

CHETRY: Yes, with Robert Downey Jr. playing...

CARROLL: You know, there's...

CHETRY: But it's sort of mixed with social commentary about how...

CARROLL: Exactly.

CHETRY: ... silly he was for doing it.

CARROLL: It had some context there, and I think that's why it was embraced by a lot of whites and African Americans.

ROBERTS: Yes. Just, you know, there's - that one person that you talked to said there were plenty of beautiful black models who could have done that picture and that picture and that picture and would have looked just as...

CARROLL: Again, it would have been nice if we could have heard from - from French "Vogue" because perhaps this would have been an opportunity for them to explain their artistic point of view, but...

CHETRY: Right. But, you know, maybe I'm a cynic but they're going to sell far more copies because of the controversy they're generating.

CARROLL: That's true too.

ROBERTS: Jason, good piece this morning.

CARROLL: All right.

ROBERTS: We want to know what you think, by the way. Is blackface ever OK? Weigh in on our blog at cnn.com/amfix. We're going to read some of your thoughts coming up in the next hour.

It's 49 minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: Fifty minutes past the hour. Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.

There's a new law in California now aiming to crackdown on the paparazzi and media outlets who purchase the photos. Some celebrities are hoping that will stop aggressive photographers. It takes effect in January, but some in the industry are already saying that the law steps on free speech rights.

Our Kareen Wynter has a look from Hollywood.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAREEN WYNTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Some will stop at nothing to get that perfect picture. Swarms of Hollywood Paparazzi are paid big bucks for chasing celebrities. Those on the other side of the lens are now becoming the target.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They act like a pack of wolves stalking their prey, creating havoc in the streets and are nuisances to innocent bystanders.

WYNTER: Los Angeles City Council officials, local law enforcement, even celebrities are taking shots at aggressive paparazzi with a new proposal: regulations that would create a personal safety zone or buffer between highly sought-after stars and the photographers who pursue them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The safety zone of six feet I think is completely unenforceable, and as every (ph) celebrity has a chaperon of a police officer with a six-foot tape measure, how are you going to enforce it?

WYNTER: Not all city leaders are pushing for tougher laws against the paparazzi. LA Police Chief William Bratton who called the crackdown unnecessary raised eyebrows with these comments.

WILLIAM BRATTON, POLICE CHIEF, LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT: If celebrities behave themselves, that's also 90 percent of the problem. If you noticed Britney the last couple of days decided wearing clothes again and basically paparazzi leaving town because she's not as interesting when she's not running around without her underwear on.

WYNTER: Bratton also told KNBC Television.

BRATTON: Paris is out of town, not bothering anybody anymore - thank God. And evidently Lindsay Lohan has gone gay. You don't seem to have much of an issue.

WYNTER: But some took issue with Bratton's remarks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was a bit troubled by Chief Bratton's comment this morning about not having to worry about Lindsay Lohan anymore since she turned gay. You know, in West Hollywood that's kind of a nightly occurrence, so whether someone is gay or not should be irrelevant.

WYNTER: As the growing breed of paparazzi continue to push the limits in this lucrative business, it has its costs to the public. Earlier this year, the Los Angeles Police Department reportedly spent $25,000 to transport Britney Spears to the hospital to shield the pop star against the crush of trailing paparazzi.

Kareen Wynter, CNN, Hollywood. (END VIDEOTAPE)

CHETRY: There you go. And in a funny twist, his own wife, Maria Shriver, was snapped by paparazzi talking on the phone while driving, which of course is a big no-no in California.

ROBERTS: A violation of the law.

CHETRY: Well, we want to know what you think. CNN has reached out to several well-known tabloid and celebrity magazines, including "People," "Us Weekly," "In Touch" and "OK!" They're not commenting right now on how this could impact their business.

ROBERTS: All right. So there's a big controversy brewing over in the UK on how to treat heroin addicts. We used to (ph) substitute methadone in a lot of clinics, but over there they're using heroin to treat heroin addicts.

How does that all work? Our Paula Newton will tell us, coming right up.

Fifty-four minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. Heroin - it is one of the most dangerous drugs on the planet, and getting clean from heroin addiction is notoriously tough. Yet, right now, in England, a controversial program is under way to treat addiction, one that gives heroin to heroin addicts at taxpayers' expense.

Our Paula Newton is live in London for us this morning to cover this story. How effective is this treatment?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, apparently, over four years of study, it shows that it is effective. The controversy, John, it's making basically the government here the drug dealer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON (voice-over): This is heroin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll get the right syringe for the right client.

NEWTON: Ninety-seven percent pure, better than anything sold on the street.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a place (INAUDIBLE).

NEWTON: And the British government is giving it to addicts for free in an effort to make them drug free.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, this is pure stuff. This is clinical stuff. This is a clinical procedure, and this is medication. NEWTON: A safe, steady supply of heroin is apparently just what the doctor ordered. A recent study suggests it's working, reducing the use of street heroin by three-quarters and the crimes committed in trying to get that drug by two-thirds.

For Sarah, a steady fix of heroin dispensed at a safe clinic with wrap around support has worked where nothing else has.

SARAH, DRUG THERAPY CLIENT: You'll always be an addict, basically. It's - it's about managing it and - and leading a - a - a positive life.

NEWTON: After 20 years, the morality of it was stripped bare, her distinction distilled to its physical essence.

SARAH: Then it quite quickly became - well, I do want to stop, actually. I don't really want to have to stick needles in me for the rest of my life.

NEWTON: It seems to be that taking heroin off the streets is making the difference, treating it like any other dangerous but necessary drug, and then matching that with intensive therapy and counseling.

JOHN STRANG, KING'S HEALTH PARTNERS: The intensity of the program is quite striking. The - the bond that is formed and the commitment that's established between the patient coming in for treatment and the staff is far greater than you'd ever ordinarily see.

NEWTON: Professor Strang says the key seems to be treating heroin addiction like any other illness and then having the patience to see the treatment through, even if that means the government is the drug dealer of choice for months, if not years.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: John, you know, it works to cut crime, it works to take heroin off the streets. Does it work to actually help these patients keep clean for years to come? The jury's still out on that. This will require a lot more study.

Statistic for you that the government here is looking at, it takes $22,000 a year for that - for this program - a lot of money per patient, costs three times more than that to keep that same patient in prison.

ROBERTS: That was the big question I had, though, Paula, just, you know, in terms of getting people off of these drugs, does it work? And - and how do they go about doing it? Do they slowly wean them off of it? Do they wait until, like that woman said, she doesn't want to do it anymore? How - how do they actively try to get people off these drugs?

NEWTON: Look, what they tell me is that this is like any other illness. So the way someone might treat you for diabetes or treat me for diabetes might take longer or not. Of course, the goal is getting them off of it permanently. I think that's where some of the critics are a bit unsettled. How long can this go on?

That's why it needs more study, though, really the facts on this in the studies coming out from five different countries now, most prominently in England, say, look, it is working. And, again, we're talking about those hard to treat, John, only about 5 to 10 percent of the heroin addicts out there.

ROBERTS: All right. Paula Newton for us this morning from London. Paula, thanks so much.