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Nancy Grace
Croslin and Cummings File for Divorce
Aired October 14, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Satsuma, Florida. A 5- year-old little girl tucked into bed, five hours later, she`s gone, vanished, the back door propped wide open. Daddy comes home from the night shift to find not a trace of little Haleigh. The last person to see the 5- year-old alive that night, the stepmother, Misty Croslin.
Just hours after Croslin handcuffed by cops on alleged road rage, she flies to New York, taking to the air to declare she`s innocent. But even in one brief interview, she can`t keep her story straight, first claiming she knows nothing about Haleigh`s whereabouts, then blurts out "the other side of the family" took Haleigh, then a 180 on the failed lie detector, claiming she passed, then admitting she failed.
After her brother tells cops he was at the home that night, no sign of Croslin, completely debunking her story, her mother says Croslin`s not coming clean. Croslin`s TV response, They betrayed me. They`re the bad guys. Look at them, don`t look at me. Minutes after Croslin`s debacle on national TV, her lawyer dumps her.
Bombshell tonight. We know whenever the investigation heats up, Croslin goes AWOL. But tonight, it`s revealed her wingman, the woman who took her to Orlando and New York, was working undercover to befriend Croslin and get the truth. Did it work? This while Haleigh`s dad publicly stands by his new bride. Sources reveal in a fit of depression over Haleigh, Cummings threatens to shoot Croslin dead if she`s responsible.
In the last hours, Croslin and Cummings file divorce papers in a Florida court. What does it mean to the investigation? Croslin claims the holes in her story have nothing to do with the split. But have Cummings`s worst fears been confirmed, that his new wife, Misty Croslin, implicated in the disappearance of his own 5-year-old girl?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MISTY CROSLIN, HALEIGH`S BABY-SITTER/STEPMOTHER: (INAUDIBLE) I mean, I don`t want a divorce, but it`s what he wants, so whatever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news. The divorce papers between Ronald Cummings and the last person to see Haleigh alive, Misty Croslin, have been filed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We gave her the papers. She`s no longer represented by anybody. She looked them over. She took them to a notary, brought them back signed.
RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: The two of us have agreed to go separate ways and just -- with the family problems and everything else, it`s just -- it`s too much on the relationship.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does Ron still believe Misty? Reports emerge that Ronald Cummings investigated over (INAUDIBLE) gun threats, allegations his attorney denies. What happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why does Ron continue through his lawyers to say that he`s supporting Misty and that he`s not concerned about the inconsistencies in her story, when we thought he was divorcing her? He`s still providing cover. He`s probably his own worst enemy at this point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tips flooding in from across the nation, possible Haleigh sightings caught on tape, this as Misty Croslin`s mom transferred out of a Tennessee jail. Will she be questioned by Florida police?
CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, HALEIGH`S MOTHER: I thought all along that she had something to do with it, and now this kind of just proves it. I mean, she was the last one to see our daughter, and her stories just don`t add up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If this girl keeps doing what she`s doing, it`s only a question of time before she`s charged with something having to do with this kid`s disappearance. She just repeatedly, repeatedly contradicts herself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live to Pennsylvania. Two mentally handicapped teens with the minds of a 3rd and 6th grader vanish. Tonight, the search for two helpless handicapped teens. Where are Charles and Donna?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pennsylvania police are searching for two mentally disabled teens who vanished in the Poconos Friday night. Eighteen-year-old Charles Lockard and nineteen-year-old Donna Kiernan left around 6:30 PM, headed out for a walk, and haven`t been seen since. A massive search was launched over the weekend with emergency management workers, firefighters, residents and search dogs all out scouring the area for clues. Authorities say the teens both have a 6th-grade mental capacity, and they are desperate to find them. State police say they plan to continue looking until the pair are found.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Did a female friend go undercover to get the truth about the disappearance of 5-year-old Haleigh?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROSLIN: Everybody knows that I love Haleigh and Ronald and Junior. (INAUDIBLE) family (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The last person to see Haleigh alive is also the last person to finally sign divorce papers.
CUMMINGS: I think we both agreed on it.
GRACE: Who brought it up first?
CUMMINGS: I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The divorce between Ronald Cummings and Misty Croslin now filed. Will it boost the investigation into what happened to 5-year-old Haleigh?
CROSLIN: I feel like it`s the other side of the family that has her. That`s just how I feel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you feel that police have looked at everyone they need to look at?
CROSLIN: I don`t think they looked at everyone as close as they have me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now that Misty Croslin`s has been transferred out of a Tennessee jail, will she be questioned by Florida police? What does she know?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If this family is willing to betray each other over something like getting a "get out of jail free" card, what does that say about her? And who`s she willing to betray? Is she betraying Ron? Is she betraying Haleigh?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... as over 4,000 tips continue to pour in, including possible Haleigh sightings caught on video.
TERESA NEVES, HALEIGH`S PATERNAL GRANDMOTHER: I believe Haleigh is alive. I have faith in God to take care of my baby girl and find her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Art Harris at Artharris.com. I understand this is your story that you break, that the wingman, the so-called friend that went to Orlando and flew to New York with Misty Croslin, was actually undercover? Explain.
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: That`s right, Nancy. Donna Brock, who is a volunteer for Texas Equusearch, according to Tim Miller, was working all the time to get close to Misty so she could possibly glean information about what Misty may know happened to Haleigh. This was not known to police per se. She was not a, quote, "agent" of police. But she was working for Texas Equusearch in an attempt to find out what she could learn by getting close to Misty.
GRACE: OK. All right. Where all did Donna Brock go with Misty Croslin? Where did they travel?
HARRIS: Nancy, she picked her up in Satsuma and they went to Orlando. They wound up at Universal, Cocoa Beach. They were on the road when everyone thought Misty was on the run. But Tim Miller was wiring money for her to take Misty to get her hair done, her nails done, to try to get close to her. And Misty was really warming up very closely to Donna. So this was something that was working until the road rage incident outed them both.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Are you telling me that the so-called undercover friend was the friend in the road rage incident that was driving?
HARRIS: That`s correct, Nancy. They were off driving down highway -- Interstate 4 when, according to Tim Miller, someone tried to run them off the road. Donna Brock pulls along the car and gave this driver the finger. Then Misty gives them the finger, and that is when...
GRACE: Yes, I`ve heard the whole thing.
HARRIS: You`ve heard the story.
GRACE: And I interviewed the woman who called the cops. Now, Art -- put him up again. Art, you`re trying to tell me they were the victims? How come it was the other lady, the pharmaceutical sales rep, that called police to rat herself out?
HARRIS: Well, that`s...
GRACE: That doesn`t even make sense.
HARRIS: Well, it`s a good -- sure. I mean, Nancy, it depends how threatened did Donna Brock, the driver, feel. She didn`t feel threatened enough to call the police. But according to her, it was the other driver who...
GRACE: OK. Hold on.
HARRIS: ... forced her off the road.
GRACE: Before we go off on the road rage incident, I want to get back to this.
To Marlaina Schiavo, our producer on the story. Did it work? Did Donna Brock get anything out of Croslin?
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Unfortunately, Nancy, it didn`t work at all. All that happened, at this point, was that she got to travel around with Misty and get to know her a little better. And all she could gather was that Misty has a sort of temper that no one has seen. But other than that, there`s been no new information that came from this new friendship.
GRACE: What do you mean by temper?
SCHIAVO: Well, apparently, you know, she had witnessed a couple of conversations that Misty had while they were on the road, with Ronald. And apparently, she got really, really hostile with Ronald at times, and she witnessed her just not -- not being very even-tempered.
GRACE: Take a listen to what one alleged victim of Misty Croslin`s had to say.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: ... car is it?
COURTNEY BALLINGER, ROAD RAGE VICTIM: It`s a Caliber, a Dodge Caliber.
911 OPERATOR: What color?
BALLINGER: Like, a neon blue. Not neon blue, but regular blue.
911 OPERATOR: And what is she -- do you know her?
BALLINGER: No! I think that, like, way back, she beeped at me or something, and I just kept driving and ignoring it, and now she`s following me. Her and her friend are flipping me off. She rode up next to me and said, I`m going to beat your ass.
And they`re waving something around. I don`t know what it is, but I don`t want to find out.
911 OPERATOR: OK, what...
BALLINGER: And it`s non-stop.
These people are crazy. Like, I didn`t -- honestly, like, you know, I don`t provoke people or do anything as far as road rage, but I mean, these girls are just, like -- I don`t know. Like, I didn`t even do anything, and they`re, like, victimizing me.
911 OPERATOR: Right. Yes, and you really need to make a report with the officer, but I would just...
BALLINGER: I will, definitely. This is, like, you know -- because if I was somebody who -- what if I had a gun in the car or something, you know what I mean?
911 OPERATOR: Yes. No, I know. But I...
BALLINGER: Now there`s...
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: And to top it all off, while Ronald Cummings has publicly stood beside his new bride, Misty Croslin, now we learn of threats? Art Harris, what can you tell us?
HARRIS: That`s right, Nancy. Tim Miller went back to the house where Ron was living with Misty and tells me that Ronald took an assault rifle from his closet, had 32 -- had two clips, 32 bullets in each, and he threatened to blow Misty`s teeth through the back of her head and then kill himself and take others out with him if, in fact, he learned she had anything to do with Haleigh.
That`s when he got -- he became afraid that if anything happened to Misty, the case would go down the tubes and they would never find out what happened to Haleigh, since police believe she`s holding a lot more information than she`s revealing. So that`s when he came up with this undercover mama (ph) idea to let Donna Brock go on the road with Misty to see what she could get from her and get her away from Ronald Cummings.
GRACE: To Mark Nejame, attorney for Tim Miller of Texas Equusearch. Your client is certainly up in the investigation, hiring someone and paying a woman to go undercover to get the truth out of Misty Croslin. And when he says he observed Ronald Cummings, with a weapon, I thought the cops took all of the weapons out of the home the night Haleigh went missing.
MARK NEJAME, ATTORNEY FOR TIM MILLER: Yes, I think if Tim had an opportunity to do a do-over on this, he would have. What ended up happening is, is that he did tell the police about this, but at the time, the focus was on her polygraph, her voice stress analysis, the hypnosis, all of which failed. So he let them know. But a month or so later, everybody said, Whoa, there`s a rifle in that, you know, closet and there`s another child in the house. But at the time, the focus was really on, you know, what is Misty holding back and what is she not telling everybody?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Why won`t she come and sit down with police and talk to them?
CUMMINGS: I can`t answer it for you. I`m sure that maybe her attorney can answer it for you. We have talked to her about talking to the police.
GRACE: What does she say?
CUMMINGS: She says she`s talked to them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MISTY CROSLIN: I got up because I had to use the bathroom, but I didn`t make it to the bathroom. I seen the kitchen light on, and I walked in the kitchen, and the back door`s wide open.
LISA CROSLIN, MISTY`S MOTHER: She told me when she woke up -- she always keeps the lights out. She says she woke up and she noticed -- she was going over to the bathroom, but she noticed that the kitchen light was on. And she said when she made it around the corner, because you have to, like, go around the corner, she noticed that the back door was open, and that`s when she ran back to the bedroom and Haleigh wasn`t in there.
MISTY CROSLIN: I mean, I didn`t notice about Haleigh then until I seen the back door open. And then I go in her room, and she`s gone! And that`s all I know!
LISA CROSLIN: She went to Haleigh`s room. She wasn`t in there. So that`s when she started calling.
GRACE: Ronald, has the theory that Misty left the home sometime during the night been disproved?
CUMMINGS: I`m not sure that I believe it has, Nancy. I`m almost 100 percent sure, but I wouldn`t tell you that and lie to you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s no way she could have wandered off?
MISTY CROSLIN: No, she is scared of the dark. She would not go anywhere by herself.
LISA CROSLIN: But I know the little girl. (INAUDIBLE) She would not just get up and walk out that door in the middle of the night by herself.
GRACE: Do you believe she left the home and left the children alone, Ronald?
CUMMINGS: Absolutely not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Ellen in California. Hi, Ellen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love your show, Nancy, and thank you for taking my call.
GRACE: Thank you. Yes, ma`am. Thank you for calling in.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The twins are beautiful.
GRACE: Oh, thank you. They`re going to be 2 in just a few weeks and...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And Lucy looks just like you.
GRACE: Well, that`s a compliment to me, and I want to thank you for that. It`s -- it`s a dream come true.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) lucky Lucy.
GRACE: Thank you. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think Misty`s stories don`t jibe because I think she`s learning disabled.
GRACE: Now, why do you say that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Remember the 911 call, when they asked for her address?
GRACE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She gave the street. The 911 operator asked for the numerical, and she said, What`s that?
GRACE: OK, to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer, who`s been on the story from the very beginning. Is there any sign that she is disabled? If she is disabled, she`s somehow managed to throw off the cops now for about nine months.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, well, no reports like that, Nancy. However, we do know that Misty Croslin, although she`s only 17 years old, has dropped out of school, has not gone to school for some time, some reports suggesting she dropped out as early as after the 6th grade.
GRACE: What about it, Art Harris? Is that true?
HARRIS: Nancy, I have spoken to her grandmother, Flora Hallers (ph), in Nashville, Tennessee, who raised her during those very crucial years of grammar school, 6th grade. She said she had a very hard time with her homework. She had to sit down with Misty, and Misty begged her to help her. Only the grandmother had had a hard time, too. It had been a long time since she`d been in school. She says she does have learning disabilities, and her parents did not make her go to school. So this is, you know, a young women, young girl who has not had the best education, Nancy.
GRACE: Out to Peggy, Washington state. Hi, Peggy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi Nancy. I just want to say I love your show the best because there`s never any of this political stuff on it. It`s just interesting things.
GRACE: Peggy, thank you very much. I absolutely do not like politics. I don`t believe either side, the Republicans, the Democrats. I think they`re all lying, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Me, too!
GRACE: There you have it. What`s your question, love?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was (INAUDIBLE) wanting to ask you, back when Haleigh was first discovered missing, and it was, like, close to a week, I think, that two cadaver dogs hit on the dumpster that was, like...
GRACE: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. What I thought at the time and I`ve never heard -- when did the dumpster get emptied? I mean...
GRACE: Right. Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... these dogs usually are right.
GRACE: I remember that. What about it, Ellie?
JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, we did hear reports that the dumpster -- there was a hit by the cadaver dogs on the dumpster. They apparently thoroughly checked out the dumpster. They weren`t able to find anything there, any signs of DNA, blood, anything like that. I believe they also went and checked the dump where that dumpster would be emptied and didn`t find anything there, either.
GRACE: I believe the dumpster had been emptied, like, two days before?
JOSTAD: Right. That sounds right.
GRACE: To Mike Brooks. Mike, what do you make of the divorce? And in your experience at handling so many cases like that, how, if at all, will it affect the investigation?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: You know, if at all, Nancy, I think it could help the investigation because, you know, Ronald -- the whole relationship right from the very beginning has been tumultuous from the time that he was -- the police report was taken. So maybe now that, you know, Ronald`s not there to protect her, if you will, maybe she`ll open up. But instead of going up to the morning show at CBS, she should have been with Putnam County sheriff`s, talking to them about where Haleigh is, period!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROSLIN: They`ve been on me for six months. They haven`t left me alone for six months. I`ve been the one, the main focus. They just need to move on and look for the right person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Do not lie to me. You`ve never lied to me before, to my knowledge. Don`t tell me that you didn`t know police want to talk to her again. We all know it. We`ve talked about it on this show, on national TV. Now, I`m telling you police want to talk to her. Now, why is she back in Orlando and not speaking to police?
CUMMINGS: That I`m not sure, Miss Nancy. I already told you, same as what Terry said, it`s probably due to her attorney, his advice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Renee Rockwell, veteran defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, and Doug Burns, former federal prosecutor, now defense attorney in the New York jurisdiction.
Renee, let`s talk about statements that Misty Croslin probably, most likely, made to the new friend who was paid by a private citizen to go undercover to get the truth about Haleigh Cummings. She`s not a cop.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Not a cop.
GRACE: She`s not undercover law enforcement. So anything she says to this woman, Donna Brock, can come in at trial.
ROCKWELL: Nancy, I agree with that. And I also think, even if it was a police plant, that those statements would come in, also. There`s no rules against somebody trying to set up somebody or trying to trick them into telling them the truth.
GRACE: You`re right.
ROCKWELL: I mean, since when has that been off base?
GRACE: And Doug Burns, you have to be in custody, right, and you have to be a target before your Miranda rights kick in.
DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I agree with everything said except, though, that if she`s represented by a lawyer, law enforcement may not be able to put somebody in to get statements out of her.
GRACE: But that`s irrelevant here because this wasn`t law enforcement.
BURNS: Yes, no, I know. I`m saying. But Renee was saying that you can do it willy-nilly. I`m not so sure I agree.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Is there any possibility that she left the home that evening and hasn`t told you?
CUMMINGS: If there is a possibility of it, I don`t know anything about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What time was Haleigh last seen by anybody other than Cummings and Croslin?
CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, MOM OF 5-YR-OLD HALEIGH CUMMINGS: The last time I seen her was.
GRACE: I didn`t ask when you saw her. Certainly, you as the biological mother know the facts of this case. So when was she last seen by someone other than the father and stepmother?
SHEFFIELD: That, I don`t know.
GRACE: Have you asked her what happened? What does she tell you?
RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER OF 5-YR-OLD HALEIGH CUMMINGS: I asked her, but I don`t get any answers from her about -- you know, I don`t see -- what she`s telling me is not inconsistent.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Bottom line, you don`t know where Haleigh is?
MISTY CROSLIN-CUMMINGS, RONALD CUMMING`S WIFE, LAST SEEN HALEIGH: Bottom line.
R. CUMMINGS: She pretty much tells me the same thing each time she`s -- I ask her about it.
SHEFFIELD: She`s the last one to see our daughter and her stories just don`t add up.
M. CUMMINGS: I would have woke up if I heard any noise. I mean I didn`t hear anything at all.
GRACE: You`ve been in the trailer just like we have been. And somebody pounding on the front door, as close as her bed was to the front door, you would hear it. It`s 10 feet away.
TERESA NEVES, GRANDMOTHER OF 5-YR-OLD, HALEIGH CUMMINGS: I think the children would have been more likely to hear it.
R. CUMMINGS: I want to get to the bottom of what happened. One way or another, I want my daughter to come home.
I just got home from work, my 5-year-old daughter is gone.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK.
R. CUMMINGS: I need somebody to be here now. I`m telling you.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Listen to me, listen to me. We`ve got two officers.
R. CUMMINGS: If I find whoever has my daughter before you all do I`m killing him. I don`t care. I`ll spend the rest of my life in prison.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: That`s OK. OK.
R. CUMMINGS: I`m telling you. You can put it on recording, I don`t care.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. It`s OK, sir. We`ve got them on the way. OK? Can you give me any -- what kind of description of her pajamas that she was wearing?
R. CUMMINGS: I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know. I was at work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me right now president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation, Marc Klaas is with us.
Marc, you went through much the same thing when your daughter Polly went missing many years ago. How do you compare all of these people`s behavior to what you think should be the gold standard?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, first of all, I didn`t have somebody like Tim Miller come in and play dangerously with the lives of my family, insert his amateurs in and betray us on a variety of levels time after time.
These are very vulnerable people that we`re dealing with right here. There`s a little girl that`s missing. He`s supposed to be running a search operation. I ran a search operation, but you know what? He`s putting us in jeopardy. He`s putting me, he`s putting every other organization that runs a legitimate search operation in jeopardy, because we require the trust and cooperation of law enforcement and the family whenever we get called in to one of these cases.
And he`s just breaking that down. If I were the Putnam County Sheriff, I would consider arresting Tim Miller for interfering in an investigation. I`m absolutely outraged by the things that I have heard tonight.
Now before anybody gets too far off on Misty here, and I quite frankly don`t totally believe her story either, but let`s remember, my daughter Polly was kidnapped in her bedroom while her mother slept soundly only 10 feet away. Exactly the same thing happened to Elizabeth Smart and to Daniel Van Dam. Entire families slept through these kidnappings. So it`s preposterous as her story may be, it`s not utterly impossible.
GRACE: What about it, Mark Nejame. You`re the attorney for Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch. How did he come up with the concept, Mark Nejame, in response to Marc Klaas` questioning, to plant someone under cover against Misty Croslin.
MARK NEJAME, ATTORNEY FOR TIM MILLER, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH: As outrageous as Mr. Klaas` statements. Tim Miller is here to help find the missing people.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Right. If you could just.
NEJAME: Today he found 102 person.
GRACE: If you could just focus on the question.
NEJAME: And he`s found his 102nd person today. You think outside the box. Law enforcement was at a dead end. Every effort being made to find this child who`s either dead or missing was utilized. And to find the child, you use any legal means necessary.
There`s not a rule book that says you can only do it one way. He should be applauded for doing whatever it took to help find a missing or a dead child. To be criticized for that is wrong and outrageous.
GRACE: I want to go to Ellie Jostad, our producer on the story.
Ellie, I want to go back also to what Ronald Cummings allegedly said.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Right.
GRACE: Publicly, he stands beside his new bride, Misty Croslin. But, privately, according to sources being Miller.
JOSTAD: Right.
GRACE: He threatened to blow her head off if she was involved? That doesn`t sound like he believes her story.
JOSTAD: Right. Right. He did say that -- he said, according to Tim Miller. Tim Miller said that Ronald Cummings said that he would blow Misty Croslin`s teeth out through the back of her head if he found out she did it.
Now Ron Cummings` lawyer said that Ron does not remember making these statements. But if he did, it was similar to that 911 call, it was an emotional statement he said when he was very upset. Similar on the how 911 call he said if I find whoever did this, I`m going to kill them, I don`t care if I go to prison.
GRACE: What about it, psychologist Caryn Stark, joining us from New York? Weigh in, Caryn.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: I`ll tell you, Nancy. Somebody may be very emotionally upset, but they don`t necessarily start telling people that they are going to kill them or that they`re going to blow their teeth in or any of that stuff is going to happen.
So I really think that this is such a travesty and such a circus that I`m waiting for the acrobats to come in. It`s one ridiculous story on top of the other. It`s all very ludicrous. And what about Haleigh? Isn`t she supposed to be the focus? Not the fact that Misty is covering up and not telling anybody anything.
Someone should be really, really paying attention to what happened to her. What can we do to find out about her? And forget about all of -- who`s killing whom and everybody blaming everybody else.
GRACE: To Art Harris at www.artharris.com. He`s been there in Satsuma for weeks on end investigating the story, what, if any, difference will the divorce make? In the last hours they have filed for divorce in a Florida courthouse.
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST, ARTHARRIS.COM, INTERVIEWED MISTY CROSLIN, HALEIGH`S NEW STEPMOM: Nancy, it is keeping Misty on edge and that is hopefully what the police are counting on to perhaps get, you know, some cooperation. I can tell you that she has met with police with this undercover friend and I`m told they told her, warned her that she could get life in prison if they are able to make a case against her.
GRACE: To Dr. Jennifer Shu, pediatrician and author of "Baby and Child Health", what would be Haleigh`s needs? Let`s assume the child is still alive.
DR. JENNIFER SHU, M.D., PEDIATRICIAN, EDITOR, "BABY & CHILD HEALTH": So Haleigh had a condition called Turner syndrome which gives you small stature and it also ovaries that don`t function. But what can also happen is heart problems, thyroid disorder and diabetes. And those type of things could be life threatening to the point where if wasn`t getting the regular medical care that she needed, she could get very sick and even die in a short period of time.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Lena in Arkansas, hi, Lena.
LENA, CALLER FROM ARKANSAS: Hello.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question.
LENA: I was just wondering, when Misty`s brother went to the charter that night, if she -- I mean he said that he knocked on one door and couldn`t get a response. Did he not go to the other door? Wouldn`t people naturally check the other door?
GRACE: Good question. Marlaina Schiavo?
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: He did not go to the second door, Nancy. He only knocked on the front door, according to him.
GRACE: To Sheryl in Michigan, hi, Sheryl.
SHERYL, CALLER FROM MICHIGAN: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
SHERYL: First of all, I love your show. And I have a question. If they know -- if they that suspect Misty told her mother and brother anything and they them in custody, how come they haven`t tried to charge them with anything after the fact?
GRACE: OK. Hold on. Repeat the question, Sheryl. If the mother and brother know something, why haven`t they charged them?
SHERYL: Or threatened to charge them after the fact?
GRACE: Charge them with what?
SHERYL: Knowing any information after the fact.
GRACE: Huh. To Renee Rockwell and Doug Burns. In our jurisprudence.
DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes.
GRACE: In our legal system, Renee, nobody is under a duty to be a Good Samaritan and come forward. Now if you`re under oath on the stand and you lie, that`s perjury. If you are under oath on the stand and refuse to answer, it`s contempt. But other than that, what else can they do?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I think it`s interesting, the dynamic that you have now. You have mom that`s in jail. And she`s got $100,000 bond. She`s about to be brought down to Florida. And I clearly think that they will approach her and say, OK, do you want to get out of jail? You need to tell us something.
Look at it. Her husband is gone. Her friend is a plant from Tim Miller`s EquuSearch. Her mom was in jail and her brother has already clipped on her. I think it`s getting close to her cracking.
GRACE: Doug Burns, my question was, is there any way that these people, if they know something, can be charged with not giving it up?
BURNS: The distinction is is that, as you said it perfectly, you`re not required as a Good Samaritan to come forward. If you conceal information, then it becomes what we call misprision of a felony. The point is, the police ask, did you speak to Mr. A, B or C, no, I didn`t. And it turns out you did then you conceal it.
GRACE: What if you don`t say anything at all?
BURNS: If they don`t say anything at all, you`re absolutely right.
GRACE: Everyone, quick break. We`re taking your calls live but to tonight`s safety tips. Over one million people are victims of stalking every year. Nearly always by somebody they know.
If somebody repeatedly calls you, follows you, sends you unwanted e- mails or letters, threatens you, randomly shows up where you are, even leaves unwanted gifts, you`re being stalked.
If you are in immediate danger, of course call 911. Otherwise, please document all of these incidents, save the voice mails, letters and any correspondence like e-mails and file police reports. Tell everyone you know so the stalkers cannot get access to personal info like your location, your plans.
Stalkers are unpredictable. If someone follows you, don`t go home. Go to a busy area and get help. For information, go to Safehorizon,.org.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Authorities are desperately searching for two mentally disabled teens who vanished in the Poconos Friday night. The teens, 18-year-old Charles Lockard and 19-year-old Donna Kiernan, were last seen around 6:30 p.m. Friday, headed out for a walk.
Nearly 100 searchers including firefighters, emergency management workers and volunteers all spent the weekend searching the area for the teens. Workers went door-to-door and even used search dogs hoping to find any clue that could lead them to the teens.
Police say they will continue to search for the pair who both have a sixth grade mental capacity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Bob Matthews, news director, WVPO Newstalk 840 960 AM. Bob, what happened?
BOB MATTHEWS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WVPO NEWSTALK (via phone): Well, Nancy, basically, these two youngsters were getting on Friday night. They were going over to visit the young man`s grandmother. The family was gathered outside the grandmother`s house.
And Charles Lockard`s sister went inside for a couple of minutes, and when they came back outside, both Lockard and his girlfriend, Donna Marie Kiernan, were missing. And they didn`t know where they got to. They felt well, maybe they took a walk or maybe they wandered off to the woods.
And then of course the family started to look for them around the property and then started to panic when they couldn`t find them. And then -- you know, Lockard`s father was running into the woods and said he`d heard his son screaming out, screaming out. And all of a sudden the screams stopped and he started to panic.
However, they didn`t call police or fire officials until the next day as they continue to look around the property to try to locate the two youngsters.
GRACE: Now, Bob Matthews -- Bob joining us from WVPO from Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, what did the father claim to have heard the son calling out? Any words?
MATTHEWS: He said he heard him calling daddy, daddy, daddy. And then all of a sudden he said he heard it again. The third time he heard daddy, dad -- and then it stopped abruptly. And that`s when his father became worried and he said he started searching frantically.
GRACE: To Matt Zarrell, our producer on the story. Matt, what can you tell me about their mental disabilities?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Well, the boy, Charles, he`s got the mental capacity of, I think, a third grader. And Donna has the mental capacity of a sixth grader, Nancy.
GRACE: Back to Bob Matthews. Bob, what more can you tell me? What is the type of area? Where are they missing? And number two, why did they wait until the next day to call police?
MATTHEWS: Now let`s talk about the area where they went missing. It`s a rural development. And there are, you know, woods and swamps and bushes and clips out when you get into the deeper terrain. But other than that, there are houses there mixed in among the trees.
So this is like they`re out in the middle of a forest. And basically, what happened is -- I guess from what I heard, there were conflicting stories back and forth as to why they didn`t go to the police right away. Some said they were nervous. Some said that they -- you know, thought they could find them on their own and didn`t really want to alert and alarm authorities.
And then when the youngsters didn`t come home and they couldn`t find them, that`s when they panicked and said oh, we better call somebody and called state police and then the township of (INAUDIBLE) or fire company.
GRACE: OK, Bob, that doesn`t make sense. What would they be nervous about?
MATTHEWS: Well, some people involved in the case, and again, this is just hearsay, and I got this information from a third party, said that they had had some activity in the past with law enforcement. But they really didn`t go into specifics or details. And some people speculate they may have been afraid to go to authorities because they may have thought that they were going to get into some kind of trouble.
GRACE: To Mike Brooks, formerly fed with the FBI, what do you make of it? I mean these are two teens with the minds of a sixth and a third grader. They are helpless.
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST; FMR. D.C. POLICE DET., FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Absolutely. I mean, in D.C., if we were looking for them, even if they thought they might have run away, Nancy, or whatever the circumstances could be, it would still be classified as a critical missing person because of their mental capacity.
You know, but this whole delay in calling 911, it just doesn`t add up to me. It doesn`t make sense. And you know, it could cost these children their lives for not calling the police when they should have called.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, founder of KlaasKids Foundation, your expertise is looking for lost children. What should be done and what has gone wrong?
KLAAS: Well, certainly, I think Mike just hit the nail on the head when he said the delay in contacting law enforcement may have been a critical mistake. But one of the things that they can do right now is they can ask all property managers, all real estate agents, farmers, ranchers, anybody that has access to unoccupied properties or outbuildings to please go and check those properties to see if the kids might be there.
Although they do not have -- although they`re mental capacity is challenged, they certainly understand the need to get shelter, I`m sure. So I think that that would be one place to start and that might end up solving the case.
GRACE: Back to Bob Matthews, WPVO. Bob, I had heard a report, but I want to confirm this with you. There are a lot of vacation homes in that area. There`s about 3,000 homes is my understanding. Is it true that one of the homes appears to have been used by the two teens? They have been in there?
MATTHEWS: Yes, Nancy, the latest information we have from state police, there are a lot of homes in that area that unfortunately have been foreclosed upon so there are vacant homes in that development, the Indian Mt. Lakes development.
And state police say based on some eyewitness accounts and people who reportedly saw these two youngsters, that they had stayed in one of the homes Saturday. And when they went to investigate, the youngsters were already gone. The teens had already left the home.
So police are saying right now they think there are still somewhere within the development but that`s why, you know, with a program like yours and others, they are still trying to get the word out in case, you know, they managed to slip their way out of Indian Mt. Lakes or out and about somewhere and as you mentioned just a short time ago, the elements up there, the temps are supposed to drop into the low, around freezing, maybe even into the low 30s, upper 20s by the weekend.
So it`s imperative that they find the youngsters quickly. And if they`re in a home, these home -- you know, these homes probably don`t have the heat turned on and some probably don`t have the electricity turned on so that could pose a further danger.
GRACE: Everyone, we are talking about two teens with the mental capacity of a third grader and a sixth grader. If they don`t find shelter, they are in the elements. They are completely helpless and missing now for several days.
Tip line, 570-646-2271.
Caryn Stark, how do people like this make their way in society? There`s a third grade mentality and a sixth grade mentality.
STARK: Well, what happens is they get a lot of support, Nancy, and they need to have people around them all the time who are helping them. And a nice thing is that they found each other, so they can support each other. What concerns me is the fact that they were yelling out to dad and then they got cut off.
GRACE: If they have fallen prey to a predator, their moral support to each other is not going to account for very much.
To Renee Rockwell, can the family be held responsible for not reporting them missing for so long?
ROCKWELL: I would think so, Nancy. This would be tantamount to not reporting a third grader and a sixth grader missing.
GRACE: Everybody, as we go to break, we are taking your calls, and I want to wish a very happy birthday to Texas friend, Sue. She never misses the show.
Sue, happy birthday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Charlie Lockard and Donna Kiernan, 18 and 19 years old respectively, are mentally challenged and comprehend at the sixth grade level. They went for a walk in the Indian Lakes development Friday afternoon and didn`t return.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want her to come home. That`s all I want. Or at least call me, please let me know she`s OK. I`ll come and get her. I just want her home so I can hold her. She`s my daughter, you know. And she`s my baby.
Donna, please come home. Please.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: These two children need your help so desperately. They look like teenagers, but they are mentally handicapped. They have the mind of a third grader and a sixth grader.
If they can`t find shelter or if they have fallen prey to a predator, God only knows what has happened to them. The tip line, 570-646-2271.
To Elaine in Texas, hi, Elaine.
ELAINE, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi, Nancy. It`s so good to be on your show. I love your show. I watch it every day.
GRACE: Thank you.
ELAINE: And your twins are so beautiful.
GRACE: Thank you.
ELAINE: I just want to know why did it take the parents so long to report them missing? And also, would they know their phone number or their address or know a way to get home?
GRACE: To Bob Matthews, would they know -- do they know enough to know their address if they`re asked?
MATTHEWS: Well, they both know -- you know everybody keeps talking about the mental capacity of a third and a sixth grader. They`re both pretty sharp. I mean they are functional and from what I`m told Donna Marie Kiernan really loves school, really pays attention. She`s a pretty sharp girl. So, hopefully, I mean, I don`t know for sure, but hopefully they know.
GRACE: OK. To Dr. Shu.
MATTHEWS: . some people in the area.
GRACE: . pediatrician. Weigh in, Dr. Shu.
SHU: Yes. A 4-year-old or a 5-year-old knows their phone number. They know their address. So I would expect that they would know it whether they have access to a phone, I`m worried about. And you can go two days without water and really get dehydrated.
I also worry about some hypothermia for them and maybe getting themselves injured in the woods. So I think it`s really important to find them quickly.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Marine Lance Corporal Derek Gardner, 20, San Juan Capistrano, California, killed Iraq. From a long line of vets who served in both world wars, Korea and Vietnam.
Loved fishing with his dad, Knotts Berry Farm, pro-wrestling, the Dodgers. Favorite music, rap. Leaves behind grieving parents Ken and Vicki, brother Eric, fiancee April, and his beloved Jack Russell terrier, Scratchy.
Derek Gardner, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. Our thoughts and prayers tonight with Florida friend, legal analyst and veteran lawyer, Bill Schaeffer. Spinal surgery today.
Bill, stay strong and we are praying for you.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night at 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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