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Balloon Saga Exposed as a Hoax; Third Sweat Lodge Victim Dies; Fallen Soldier Comes Home; Alberto Gonzales, Legal Trailblazer

Aired October 18, 2009 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello everyone, I'm Don Lemon live here at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.

Outrage -- that seems to be the general sentiment towards today's revelation that the runaway balloon saga was all a publicity stunt.

Just listen to this mother whose children are friends with the Heene children and were put through their own emotional ordeal. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIMBERLY HICKS, DAUGHTER WAS CLASSMATE OF FALCON HEENE: I feel extremely betrayed. I am angry for my kids. You don't upset children. And you don't use your own child to try and benefit yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: That came in we got that just a couple of minutes ago, just a short time ago. Someone who knows the family outraged by -- many people believed that this was a stunt all along, so the news was not totally unexpected. Yet, it was still a shock to actually hear the words from the sheriff today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF JIM ALDERDEN, LARIMER COUNTY, COLORADO: I want to recap the events just briefly up to this point. You know, the morning this occurred it was obviously chaotic. We responded as a number of other rescue personnel responded to what we believed was a life-threatening event with a 6-year-old boy's life in jeopardy.

We responded in a rescue mode. After the balloon landed and it was determined that the boy was not in there and determined that he was not in the house, we went into a body recovery mode, so clearly emotions were running high.

At that time -- and I've made a big point out of saying and talking about the emotional condition of the family, their body language, their nonverbal communications. Everything that we experienced with the family to that point was very consistent and believable, although certainly a number of people, including the media, including the viewers, were skeptical about this thing.

We remained somewhat skeptical, but as I constantly said, we have to operate on facts and what we can prove as being facts. So you know, the fact that with the information we had it was plausible to believe that this event occurred.

And so we were in a recovery mode. Some of the other things that initially led credibility to this fantastic story was the fact that the Heene family granted us free access to search their house. They granted us complete access to their children to interview independently.

After Falcon was found, they didn't even hesitate to allow us to talk to him outside of their presence. All of these things were very suggestive to us that it was, in fact, a real deal, that somebody was trying to contracts -- if somebody were just to trying to make something like this up, we certainly would not expect them to give us the access that they did, or the level of cooperation.

Again, after the fact, we have since learned, as many of you have, that these people are actors. Not only have they appeared in several reality television shows and on YouTube, but we have since determined that in fact, they met together -- the way that they met and established their relationship was in acting school in Hollywood.

So needless to say, they put on a very good show for us, and we bought it. Again, I don't fault any of our staff for that; everything appeared very credible.

I can also say for -- many of you suggested what if questions and wouldn't you have done things differently if you were a parent. Certainly I would. Certainly we would have. But for all of those questions that you raise, we had also raised them with the family and obtained what we thought were plausible explanations.

Certainly not what any of us would have done at the time, but there were plausible explanations and rationale that they could give us that would say ok. That wasn't until the "Larry King" show where the family was interviewed by Wolf Blitzer that we had the first a-ha moment, if you would.

And you all know what I was talking about. When he was asked why didn't you come down, and he said, I believe, Mia said we did it for the show. If you look at the nonverbal responses as well as some of the verbal cues not only from him, but from the family, from the children, the reaction, it became very clear to us at that point that they were lying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. So just a short time ago we got a statement from an attorney -- they have hired an attorney, the Heene family in Denver. His name is David Lane. He sent this statement to us he said, "The Heenes are more than willing to voluntarily turn themselves in to face any charges which may be filed against them. I have sent law enforcement this message in an effort to avoid the public spectacle and humiliation of having the police publicly arrest two people who are presumed innocent, perhaps even in the presence of their children when they are absolutely willing to turn themselves in and fully cooperate with law enforcement in this matter. Any public arrest will be deemed merely an effort by law enforcement to aggrandize themselves at the expense of the Heenes who are prepared to turn themselves in upon request."

Clearly, the Heene's in this situation trying to avoid the embarrassment of being arrested publicly and also, you know, I guess in front of their children as well. Perhaps -- hopefully, you know, innocent until proven guilty. That possibly or probably should have been thought about before all of this began to transpire.

Our Jim Spellman is covering the story from the front of the Heene's home in Fort Collins, Colorado. He joins us now live.

You have not seen hair nor hide of them for -- since yesterday, right, as it is believed that they were in Denver talking to this attorney so they have not been home, Jim.

JIM SPELLMAN, CNN PRODUCER: Don, just a few minutes ago -- less than five minutes ago the Heenes arrived here. And it was really a different family than we've seen over the last few days; the families that are out there talking to the press and holding press conferences.

They had their heads down. And they didn't say a word. They just went right from their driveway and into the door without answering any of the press's questions.

We know that they just did just from speaking with David Lane, their brand new attorney, and, you know, as you said, you know, they wanted to be sure that they don't get cuffed and taken out and that sort of thing and trying to manage this thing from their end as best they can -- Don.

LEMON: Tell us also about what you are seeing, and that's new information they just got home. Is there any video? Did you get any pictures of this them coming home? Do we have that, but you said they didn't speak.

OK, so we'll get that in for you.

SPELLMAN: Literally just a couple of minutes ago.

LEMON: OK, good talk to us about what are you seeing today, not only the family coming home just a few minutes ago, but you got up close and personal. Was it investigators who allowed the media to go in and take pictures of this balloon?

SPELLMAN: Well, yes. I mean, what we saw at the sheriff's office was we got to see the balloon. And we got to talk to some investigators.

I wanted to mention something, Don -- the family that we had a video of talking about how it impacted their kids.

Well, a lot of the investigators, a lot of the cops and the emergency medical people, I've spoke with them on this; they are really upset because they put themselves in danger. There are people in helicopters. They're driving around on the ground, they're trying to get to this thing and they don't mind doing it. They'll do it, this people are pretty amazing.

But when they're doing it for naught, for a publicity stunt and they're putting people at risk, that's got a lot of people here really pretty upset, Don.

LEMON: OK, as I would imagine they would.

Tell us about the balloon, though, what you saw and what even members of the media, their reaction, when you got up to the balloon. It's probably not as big as most people would think it is.

SPELLMAN: No, no. This thing is a contraption. I mean, that's the best word for it. It's held together with scotch tape and a little duct tape and very modest wooden strips. It's got a cardboard bottom and powered by three nine volt batteries held together with wires, sticking out.

And then what they did, though, is very fascinating. They took a bucket filled it with 37 pounds of sand to see if, indeed, it would support Falcon Heene -- that's how much he weighs. So they were put this in there and they are trying to -- trying to figured this out. They brought in a scientist from a local university.

They really were trying to see whether Mr. Heene was being truthful when he described the dimensions and what it was capable of. And it was really something to see up close.

LEMON: Yes.

SPELLMAN: I'm not sure if it comes across in the video...

LEMON: Yes.

SPELLMAN: ... but it was quite something.

LEMON: I would imagine. Jim Spellman -- lots more to come in this story still developing. We appreciate it. On the ground in Fort Collins, Colorado, right in front of the Heenes home. He said they just got home about five minutes ago.

You know, news media played an important role in the Heenes alleged plan to pull off this stunt. It also played a role in exposing the truth. The sheriff says he misled the media into thinking police did not suspect a hoax here.

Well, today he explained why.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALDERDEN: It was very important during this time that they maintain their trust with us that we maintained a very good relationship that we had established with the family. We had to say and do things to make sure that they believed that we were on their side still, and tried to just maintain that trust. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right. So, is using or misleading the media acceptable in an investigation technique? Let's bring in our law enforcement analyst Mike Brooks who joins us by phone.

OK Mike, so he said he misled the media. He said a little bit, he was disturbed about it. He said he pushed the line. And I think he said that pushed the limit and went right up against the line. What do you make of that? Is that OK?

MIKE BROOKS, CNN SECURITY ANALYST (via telephone): You know, Don, having been now on both sides of the camera -- I used to be -- sometimes I used to sit in front of the public information officer. Where things were -- we always would say never lie to the media. And in fact, when I give talks now to the media, you know, I called my little class, trust your communication. You never lie to the media.

Now, you know, why did he do this? There's always -- you can always say that there's an ongoing investigation. There are ways to put it. But you know is it because of inexperience of the people who are dealing with the media there, did he feel he had to do this, I don't know.

But in the future I think the media -- I think the media will be a little more skeptical of what this sheriff, what his PIO has to say.

LEMON: Well, here's a thing and you bring up a very good point, because, you know, we trust law enforcement that they're telling us the truth.

BROOKS: Sure.

LEMON: They are our law enforcement. And I think that most people really were skeptical of this story from the very beginning.

When it happened, Mike, have I to tell you, I was flying, and people were, you know, talking about it on the plane. Those of us -- there's WiFi on the plane now. And then when I landed and saw the interview with Wolf Blitzer on "LARRY KING," immediately I was like -- something is not right here.

BROOKS: Yes.

LEMON: This -- I mean, this is weird. But then after you hear the sheriff you want to give them the benefit of the doubt. So, you know, I don't know if there's any recourse for the sheriff or for law enforcement for lying, but, you know, they, in essence, by not telling the truth are not being completely straight with the media escalated this whole idea of a hoax.

BROOKS: You know, they did, and I think the line where they decided, Don that they were not being truthful was because of "LARRY KING LIVE" and Wolf Blitzer's interview.

LEMON: Yes. BROOKS: I think initially when we spoke -- when we heard the PIO said, yes, they believe that he's in that balloon -- they believed he was. And that's why you saw the response by the police, fire, emergency medical services. They felt they had to do that. We just heard Jim.

That people out there, yes, they're...

LEMON: Yes, but was that the right call that they felt that they had to do that. Is it the best thing, instead of lying and just saying no comment because I mean, not more than literally five minutes last night, I called the PIO there in Ft. Collins. She called be back and said she had no new information. The sheriff didn't know about there was -- but he mentioned this today -- this Robert Thomas, who was on "Gawker," and he has apparently has e-mails between Mr. Heene, Richard Heene, setting up this whole event.

So I talked to her about this. And she said I don't know about that. The sheriff has nothing. We're not going to hold a press conference. Five minutes later they announce that they are going to possibly announce charges.

So I mean, what gives here though? Is that, in essence, lying to the media? And again, if they are lying, they're perpetrating the fraud as well.

BROOKS: Well, you know, Don, one of the things I always tell law enforcement from sheriff to chiefs of police, to people who are going to be in front of the camera is, number one, don't lie and number two, never say no comment. Because what does that make you sound like? It's like you're lying.

LEMON: That you're hiding something. Yes.

BROOKS: Exactly, that you're hiding something. No, but many times -- you know and this is a learning -- this is going to be a good learning point, I think, for media and for law enforcement and we haven't heard the end of this.

LEMON: Yes.

BROOKS: I think we're going to hear more of this. But one of the things is -- is all he had to say is, "This is still under investigation,"

LEMON: OK.

BROOKS: That's all you have to say.

LEMON: Mike Brooks, always love hearing from you -- so passionate about it. Mike Brooks is our law enforcement -- our security analyst here at CNN. We appreciate it, Mike. Thank you.

BROOKS: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: All right, and we'll look at this idea about the media. The media side, a little bit later with CNN's Howard Kurtz. He is the host of "RELIABLE SOURCES."

So up in the sky, it's a bird, it's a plane, it's allegedly a big lie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALDERDEN: As I said, this is -- it has been determined that this is a hoax.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So did the balloon boy's parents pull one over on the media? More twists and turns. You have to hear them to believe them. And we're going to go over all of that.

And also, I'm looking at you guys now. A lot of you are saying, "I'm tired of hearing about this, I'm tired of hearing about it," and some of you want to hear about it and saying that the parents should be prosecuted, poor kids they should be taken away.

All your comments we want: go to Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, or iReport.com. I want to hear it all.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: OK.

It was supposed to be a spiritual retreat, but an Arizona sweat lodge ceremony ended with 911 calls, ambulances and now three deaths. Forty-nine-year-old Liz Newman died more than a week after taking part in a two-hour ritual inside a cramped sauna-like dome in Arizona.

Her family says she was otherwise healthy. So they're planning to sue over inappropriate safety measures at the event where over 20 people were hospitalized and three died. All three deaths are being treated as homicides, and that's putting self-help guru James Arthur Ray in the hot seat.

He hosted the retreat, and participants were paying big bucks to attend. So did criminal neglect contribute to the sickness and death?

Gary Tuchman visited a different Arizona sweat lodge for some perspective on this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At a different sweat lodge in Sedona, they have their theories about what happened.

This one is conducted by the people who came up with concept many generations ago, Native Americans, who invited us to experience the sacred ceremony in the intense heat firsthand.

More than an hour spent inside -- most of it in complete darkness. Fiery lava rocks make the temperature hotter than a typical sauna. The cost for a guest to participate -- free. Many Native Americans have been alarmed for years over what they describe as self-help gurus packing too many people into sweat lodges and using potentially dangerous materials to cover the structure.

In this sweat lodge they ask God to help the victims and their families.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: That was CNN's Gary Tuchman. Some of you are talking about this story and others are talking about the balloon boy. Let's get through these really fast because I want to know what some of you are saying.

Webber933 -- and I read all of them even if they're critical.

It says -- @donlemon -- "You are my favorite anchor, but I am disappointed at all the hoax coverage. Please talk more about real things like health care." Thank you Webber.

Sustainablehero says, "balloon boy story is getting too much coverage. Sustainable energy man, real life superhero. Report my story."

OK.

Beachlife2 says, "It makes sense why they lied to the media" -- talking about the sheriff -- "to make sure the Heene's kept on digging their hole. I think it's OK."

Alexbeachbabe says, "OK. My birthday, March 24th. I want your help. Need to give me a birthday shout out." There it is. Happy birthday.

"Balloon boy should be responsible for expenses incurred with various agencies involved." That's golf4dee.

Then, again, beachlife2 says, "I don't blame the neighbors. They must feel so betrayed. What will the kids at school do to the boys? They get teased."

That's it. Lots of comments coming in; we appreciate it. We are watching. We are listening: Twitter, Facebook, Myspace, iReport.com; that's how you can be heard around here.

OK.

So talk radio made him rich, but what he said on the air may keep him from owning an NFL team. We'll talk about Rush Limbaugh's failed attempt to buy the St. Louis rams and why his effort got shot down.

Also this...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALDERDEN: After the fact we have since learned, as many of you have, that these people are actors. Not only have they appeared in several reality television shows and on YouTubes, but we have since determined that, in fact, they met together -- the way that they met, established their relationship was in acting school.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. The incredible twists and turns in the balloon boy hoax; more on the investigation and how the sheriff used the media to expose the charade. We're going to lay it out for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So critics say President Obama is taking too long to decide if the U.S. should send more -- thousands more -- troops into Afghanistan. But this morning on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION," the president's chief of staff told our John King that this decision is too important to be made in a hurry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAHM EMANUEL, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: It would be reckless to make a decision on U.S. troop level if, in fact, you haven't done a thorough analysis of whether, in fact, there's an Afghan partner ready to fill that space that the U.S. troops would create and become a true partner in governing the Afghan country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel also told CNN that president, in his words, will not be rushing to making a decision without asking firm questions and challenging the assumptions.

Today in Afghanistan a U.S. Service member was killed by an improvised explosive device in the southern part of the country. Seven hundred and ninety American troops have died in Afghanistan since 2001.

One of them was army specialist Stephan Mace of Virginian. He died in an intense battle earlier this month and he will be buried tomorrow at Arlington National Cemetery.

Our Kate Bolduan went to his hometown to learn more about him.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A hero's welcome, but a homecoming every mother fears. Vanessa Adelson flew home with her son's casket.

VANESSA ADELSON, SOLDIER'S MOTHER: Stephan would have wanted me to do that, you know. Stephan and I were very close and so I did it for him, and I wanted to be the one that brings my baby home.

BOLDUAN: Adelson describes Army specialist Stephan Mace as a thrill seeker, a loyal friend and devoted soldier.

ADELSON: As long as I can remember Stephan wanted to be in the army.

SAM CHAPMAN, STEPHAN'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND: He definitely lived on the edge even when it came to playing football.

BOLDUAN: Long-time friend Sam Chapman says Mace knew the danger he and fellow soldiers faced in Afghanistan.

CHAPMAN: He definitely knew he was in a tough situation over there. He knew how serious it was, and he knew that, you know, there might not be a positive outcome.

BOLDUAN: And just two weeks ago the 21-year-old was killed along with seven other soldiers during a fierce firefight. His mother gains comfort knowing Stephan wasn't alone when he died.

ADELSON: He always wore that St. Christopher, and he had it on when he deployed. He had it on the day that he died. I have it now.

BOLDUAN: Mace's return to small Purcellville, Virginia was met by hundreds of people, family, friends, strangers. Mayor Bob Lazaro calls the show of support nothing short of amazing.

MAYOR BOB LAZARO, PURCELLVILLE, VIRGINIA: Up the hill when the first motorcycle came over, all the chattering stopped.

BOLDUAN (on camera): Just silence.

LAZARO: Silence. No cars, no chattering -- silence. It was holy, you know. It was holy.

BOLDUAN (voice-over): Vanessa Adelson is still searching for answers of exactly what happened that day, the day the country lost a soldier and a family lost a brother and son, a painful reality Adelson hopes Washington sees.

ADELSON: You either fight this war or you get out. You cannot have one foot on ground and one foot in the water. If we want to go in and we want to win this war, then they need the support and they need those troops.

BOLDUAN (on camera): Specialist Mace was awarded six medals presented at his funeral. His mother says she will proudly display them as she now fights to keep his memory alive.

Kate Bolduan, CNN, Purcellville, Virginia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right. Kate, thank you very much for that.

CNN viewers, you know, got their first real clue that something was strange about this balloon story when the Heene's appeared on "LARRY KING LIVE." That apparently was an epiphany for the police as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ALDERDEN: It wasn't until the "LARRY KING" show where the family was interviewed by Wolf Blitzer that we had the first ah-ha moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: We told you all about this. We told you that the whole thing the media is accused of manipulating. We played this so much. I don't want to hear the sheriff again.

Let's go to Howard Kurtz. Howard is the host of "Reliable Sources," which holds media organization's feet to the fire. And he joins us now by phone. And so, Howie, I'm not going to play what the sheriff said. We all know now he said it was a hoax.

HOWARD KURTZ, CNN HOST, "RELIABLE SOURCES": We were all had.

LEMON: Yes, we were all had. And then he talked about - he apologized. He apologized for what he said to the media. We'll play that. My producer said we should play the apology. Let's play that and we'll talk about it. Let's play the sheriff.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALDERDEN: I personally have to say, I feel very bad. I think we came up and bumped against the line of misleading the media. Boy, that is something I really take to heart that we don't do, and I hope I didn't cross that line. I certainly know I bumped up against it by perhaps overstating our assurance or our belief that there was nothing behind this.

We certainly were skeptical, and I know I pretty emphatically stated we weren't. If there was any manipulation to the media it would be that, and for that I apologize.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. Yes. My producer is right. Emily, you're right. We should have laid -- played that. I thought it was him explaining that it was a hoax. So, Howie, what do you make of that?

KURTZ: Well, the sheriff obviously doing a little damage control because he did come out even after we found out no boy in the balloon, boy hiding in the rafters of the garage and said we think this was a real event. And that I think in a way gave license to, you know, every television station on the planet to go crazy on this story.

Now, Don, I don't blame the media for covering that, you know, flying saucer in the air. I was transfixed. Everybody in my office was standing around looking at the TV. We had no way of knowing definitely at that time whether there was a boy in there or not, and I went to one of them (INAUDIBLE), the executive producer that says let's take that off the air. We'll come back when we know more. I mean, it's live television, these things happen.

But once we found out that the kid had never been on board, then I see, you know - I see the psychologists coming out and the experts, the hot air experts who both literally and figuratively, and we decided we're just going to pound this story to death and we're going to put this family on TV. We don't care if the kid keeps throwing up. We are going to exploit the story.

LEMON: OK. Listen - but how do you not cover it when you hear - when it comes out, you know, even today there seems to be a new development every minute. And here's the thing, right, so I'm going to say this to you, Howie. Here's the thing, I keep getting people saying, keep up the balloon boy coverage. It may be silly, but these people are criminals. There is plenty of time for other news.

OK. We don't know if they're criminals yet. They haven't been found guilty or prosecuted. When does the movie come out? That's a good one. The balloon thing is not a hoax, the media is run by liberals, and they will make things up. That is not true. Balloon boy family makes me mad. OK. So on and on and on. So people are interested. Guess what? When this was happening, the ratings on Friday for all of the networks were very good, so people are watching.

KURTZ: The ratings went to 10,000 feet along with that hot air balloon. Look, it's obviously a fascinating story.

LEMON: Actually Thursday, Howard. Thursday.

KURTZ: Yes, Thursday was the day. A sickening story in a way because, you know, even before I knew it was a hoax when I just thought, well, maybe, you know, the family believe this was a possibility, that young Falcon was in this balloon. You know, what is this guy doing dragging the family, first, hours later on to "Larry King Live" to talk to Wolf Blitzer.

Then next, you know, it's Colorado. It's 5:00 in the morning. He does "Good Morning America." The kid throws up. He does "The Today Show", and the kid throws up again. I mean that really seemed like child exploitation to me. But now that the sheriff was telling us that the whole thing was in his words a publicity stunt, I mean, can you imagine how desperately somebody wanted to be on television to stage this thing, to fool the media, to fool the country and to exploit his children in the process? I mean, that's just horrifying.

LEMON: And Howie, I said that to Jeffrey Toobin, our legal analyst. I said, you know, do you remember, Howie, the Susan Smith coverage and when she made up this - fabricated this story to the media, and on and on and on. She did it - may have done it for other reasons, but there are people who do this, who lie to the media because they want to - they want fame, they want to be in the spotlight, and with these reality shows and the prevalence of these shows, it seems that it's happening more and more and more. I'm wonder if anything we're going to come up with some sort of syndrome for people who want to get on television so badly that they lie like this.

KURTZ: Well, the line between, I think, reality television and actual television seems to be blurring since this guy, Richard Heene was quite an overheated, overcaffeinated presence on the show "Wife Swap." But you know, I guess having been through the "Runaway Bride," when everybody went up on TV...

LEMON: Yes. That is the other one.

KURTZ: But it turned out she just walked out on the wedding. You know, it's pretty easy to exploit the media because, look, we live in a 24-hour age, and everybody has a hair trigger, and nobody wants to be heard on the story. It is hard to hold back and do the checking that you would do, for example, if you were working for a daily newspaper that's a relative luxury because you don't have to be on the air every second.

But I think the more that these things happen - it's interesting that some of the people writing to you are blaming the media. I mean, we were snookered along with everyone else.

LEMON: And the sheriff, you know, admits that he went up against the line when he did this. And you have to remember, too, Howard, it's easy when, you know, you watch an evening newscast. You get really a 22-minute news hole where you can concisely cover the stories of the day, but when you work for a cable organization, you are a cable organization, you have hours and hours of time to fill on the air, and you can get into things more in depth. So people may be tuning in, and they see the story.

We are covering other news, but, you know, here I have been talking about it for over an hour and a half. I've got two hours of news to talk about. We did talk about Afghanistan. We talked about Iraq. We talked about the morning shows. But this story has - this story touches a human element. There are children -- there's children involved. There are - there's a family involved. And people are wondering in the beginning, oh, my god, this little boy could have fallen out of the balloon.

KURTZ: I had the same thought.

LEMON: And now they have the exact opposite. They go from oh, my gosh I am so happy for this family to I'm totally ticked off. They're probably using a bunch worse words than I did at this family. So they're watching to tune in because they're sort of confirming their outrage.

KURTZ: It did sort of morph instantly, Don, from a feel good melodrama with a happy ending to this bizarre soap opera where the sheriff says he is going to pursue criminal charges. By the way, CBS, ABC and NBC all led their newscast at 6:30 on Thursday even -

LEMON: And all the newspapers.

KURTZ: Yes, sure. Absolutely. I don't have any problem with everybody covering it. I'm glad you made time for, you know, the war in Afghanistan. I just don't think we should turn it into the next national obsession. An interesting story, it's a bizarre story, but it isn't the only story around.

LEMON: OK. Listen, as you are saying, you know it's always fodder (ph), right, and I can only imagine what the comedy shows, we should say, you know, "The Daily Show", "Colbert Report" and all that. What's going to happen? "SNL " as I got home last night - I DVR'd, and look what was on. Take a look. Seth Myers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SETH MYERS, "SNL": Get out of here, balloon.

"BALLOON": Why?

MYERS: because you're not news.

"BALLOON": But I was on the news for a whole day.

MYERS: That doesn't make you news, balloon.

"BALLOON": What if I told you the boy inside of me.

MYERS: Do you have a boy inside of you, balloon?

"BALLOON": No.

MYERS: You need to get out of here, balloon.

"BALLOON": Seth.

MYERS: What?

"BALLOON": I'm sorry. It's my fault.

MYERS: It's OK, balloon.

"BALLOON": I'm just a balloon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So everybody...

KURTZ: Balloon's 15 minutes of fame are over.

LEMON: That shows you. But that was last night. Fifteen minutes of fame were over until today when the sheriff comes out and that adds. Now it's 30 minutes of fame.

Howard Kurtz, I always appreciate your opinion, and I love going back and forth with you, sparring with you. The last time we did this was for Michael Jackson. Let's do it again soon.

KURTZ: OK. Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Thank you very much.

Talk show host Rush Limbaugh sees his NFL ownership dreams go up in smoke, but he is not going away quietly. We'll talk about it with sports business analyst - what's your name again?

RICK HORROW, CNN SPORTS BUSINESS ANALYST: Yes, right. LEMON: Rick Horrow.

HORROW: I'm coming out in a balloon right now.

LEMON: You're full of hot air. That's true.

HORROW: Wow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Wow. Look at that. There's nothing like the scenes of autumn. Look at the pumpkins, the leaves, the snow. Where is summer? I miss you, summer. Come back.

So that's what happened - that's what's happened in New Jersey this weekend, and some other northeastern states. Several inches in some areas. The storm system brought cold temps and gusty winds, too, but it looks like things are improving. Hopefully. It's beautiful to look at, but, you know what, I like my warm weather.

KAREN MAGINNIS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Key West was 92 yesterday.

LEMON: OK. What about today? I'm out of here.

MAGINNIS: All right. Here's some of the wind gust that is we did see. This at JFK, the wind gust, 56 miles an hour. Newark, 55. Teterboro, 51. As a consequence, we are looking at some major delays across that I-95 corridor. From Boston all the way down to Newark. Some fairly extensive delays.

Let me go ahead and show you that while we're looking at it and talking about it. Extensive delays for Newark. We have seen them for the last three, four hours running about two hours plus. Ground delays, which means if you are trying to get in towards Newark or even JFK or La Guardia, you are going to be sitting on the ground, on the tarmac, or maybe at the gate waiting at least this length of time, the visibility, the wind have greatly reduced. So we are expecting this to maybe taper off a little bit.

I suspect very early flights out of some of these major cities could be affected, but for the most part we're watching this taper off just a little bit. Look at this. Very impressive. And by the way, you have had flooding. You have fall colors. You have snowfall. Send it to ireport. We want to see them and show them off.

Worcester, we had a picture out of Worcester of beautiful snowfall there. But some flooding in Pennsylvania. Coastal sections of New Jersey. All right. This is Hurricane Rick. A powerful system that here is Seroco (ph). I want to point it out to you. A little tiny island right here, a possession of Mexico. It has several hundred people living there. You can see where this is headed. As the system starts to move more towards the west or north-northwest, and here is Cabo San Lucas at the tail of that Baja region.

Well, right now the wind associated with Rick now at 160 miles an hour, but it looks like, Don, over the next several days it's going to be a much weaker system moving across the Baja. Back to you.

LEMON: OK. Thank you very much. We appreciate it, Karen.

MAGINNIS: All right.

LEMON: The king of talk radio gets thrown for a loss and labor troubles loom for pro sports. Just two of the big stories in the business of sports this week and our own expert from the sports biz Mr. Rick Horrow joins us right here from the CNN Center. So I want one of these.

HORROW: Oh, my god. He took them.

Those are the tickets of the game that you can't go to because it's live at the Georgia Dome in a few minutes, and before that hot air comment, I was perfectly willing to give these to you, but I came -

LEMON: I can tape the show if you like.

HORROW: You can tape the show, but then you have nowhere to go.

LEMON: All right. So you're not nice.

HORROW: I'm nice. Thank you.

LEMON: OK. So listen, let's get serious here because we want to talk about rush Rush Limbaugh. This story keeps going and going and going. You know, I hear people saying, you know, people should be allowed to own if they have enough money and whatever. But they figure he wasn't the right messenger. Is that what this is all about?

HORROW: Right message, not the right messenger. NFL is working on that message. But here's the bottom line. There are six groups that are applying for a franchise. The Rams. They may not even be for sale. They are still looking for an investor. He was a limite (INAUDIBLE) candidate. They can decide who they want to be involved in this. The Rams aren't that great anyway. They just lost their sixth in a row. But the bottom line is the NFL can decide who they want in their club, and not someone who is going to use it as a platform to start talking before he is even approved.

LEMON: Well, the interesting thing, too, is always when there are situations like this, I always like to look at the positive side. It does open it up for discussion. You can talk about diversity and all of those things that they were concerned about with the NFL. Might this help the league in some way, you know, resolve or talk about some issues that should have been talked about long ago?

HORROW: Rhetoric will always help the league, move it to the next step. They have a diversity program. They have hiring coaches under this rule called the Rooney Rule. So the league has taken a lot of steps. Do they need diversity in ownership? Of course, they do. But having Rush Limbaugh speak about it is probably not the way to get it done. LEMON: OK. So labor agreements, four labor agreements up, and that's going to cause some big issues. Is it going to be tonight that you may not have to go -you may not be able to go to this game?

HORROW: The game will be played tonight. There will be no strike tonight. That is the rule. OK? But by 2011 all four leagues may have some labor problems. We're facing some issues - basketball, baseball, football, and hockey. Football has got to take the initiative and try to get it done. They're a $7 billion business. So they're going to take the first step.

LEMON: Let's talk about the baseball playoffs. The four richest teams in the league still standing?

HORROW: Well, still standing among the four richest. New York, two California teams and of course, Philadelphia. The trade off is -

LEMON: Hang on. It's phil-delphia. There's no "a" in there.

HORROW: Phil-delphia, two California teams and New York. Bottom line is money doesn't guarantee you happiness, but it sure beats want having it, and the world series may have two of the richest teams in the league. It also has the most viewing area as well. So if New York and L.A. are in the series, it's not great for those have-nots, but it's sure is great for people to watch.

LEMON: Can I get my ticket now?

HORROW: Yes. Call me later. I'll send it over by balloon.

LEMON: You are full of hot air and other stuff as well. It's good to have you, really here, in the studio instead of that little Skype thing we usually use.

HORROW: This is much better.

LEMON: Much better. There's air conditioning, microphone. We can actually see what you look like. Sorry about that, viewers. Rick Horrow, we appreciate it. Have fun. Thanks for coming down, Rick.

So he was the first Latino to serve the nation as attorney general, and it came at a sensitive time in America's legal history. My conversation with Alberto Gonzales about past, present, and future and what it's like to be a Latino first.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So right here on this program we're profiling Latinos who overcame obstacles and shattered stereotypes to make history. It's part of our series "Pioneros: Latino Firsts." Tonight, the first Latino to become a U.S. attorney general. Alberto Gonzales. I met up with him in his new role on the campus of Texas Tech University.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON (voice-over): When last we saw Alberto Gonzales, he was wielding the power and influence that come with the title U.S. attorney general. Today he is in a new role on campus at Texas Tech University in Lubbock, Texas. A recruiter for minority and underrepresented students, and a visiting professor, teaching a course called Contemporary Issues in the Executive Branch.

Gonzales knows all about issues. He was pressured to resign after 2 1/2 years as George W. Bush's attorney general. Dogged by accusations he misused the Patriot Act to uncover private information on U.S. citizens, denied rights to prisoners held in U.S.-run detention camps and then lied to Congress about all of it.

(on camera): Is there something that you want people to know about that experience or what happened? Why you resigned?

ALBERTO GONZALES, FIRST LATINO U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I think unfortunately because Washington can be political, a lot of what happened towards the end, I would say 98 percent you was political. Quite frankly.

LEMON: Explain that. What do you mean?

GONZALES: Listen, you had members of Congress making allegations that I engage in perjury, criminal wrongdoing. And we now have these investigations that has been confirmed that none of that is true. But I think that for some people, it was an opportunity to perhaps embarrass the president by going after someone they perceived as close to the president.

Even to the end, President Bush fully supported you. How much did that help at all?

GONZALES: Well, of course, that makes a great deal of difference. I served at the pleasure of the president. I wouldn't want to serve him if he had questions about my abilities to serve effectively as the attorney general of the United States.

LEMON: Loyalty says that Gonzales, trumped all else for Bush insiders. A bond forged during the worst attack on the U.S. ever and at the time that Gonzales was serving as White House counsel.

GONZALES: It is like being in combat, being in a fox hole with someone. You have to depend on them. You have to trust them. On 9/11, Karen Hughes and I were standing outside the Oval Office when Marine One touched down that evening. And the president returning from Florida, after making a couple of detour stops. But I remember him, you know, getting out of Marine One and walking to the Oval Office and Karen and I saying something like, welcome home, Mr. President. Him kind of acknowledging us, just walking straight through into the Oval Office.

The Oval Office was being readied for an address the nation that night. So there was plywood on the floor and thinks like that. He walked straight through back to the back of his, to the study behind the Oval Office. And I guess it was me Karen, Condi Rice, Ari Fleischer and Andy Card, and the president. And for about a half-hour or so, we talked about what had happened that day. And we began talking about what we were going to do as a country to respond. So that's something that I'll remember for the rest of my life.

LEMON: Four years after 9/11, Gonzales became the first Hispanic U.S. attorney general with one clear mission.

GONZALES: The president made it clear, that was the priority for those of us working in the administration is to protect our country.

LEMON (on camera): And that's going to take a toll on anybody.

GONZALES: I think it was hard. It was hard on my family. Hard on my wife. And that was tough.

LEMON (voice-over): With his wife, Rebecca and his sons Jarod, Graham and Gabriel in mind, Gonzales said he is done with the drama of politics.

ANNOUNCER: Stands tall, touchdown Texas Tech.

LEMON: Texas Tech football games and travel are family affairs. They love exploring Texas where Gonzales grew up. The second of eight children to parents of Mexican descent. A religious mother, a construction working, hard drinking father.

GONZALES: He did have a drinking problem. One of the things that I learned from my father was responsibility. No matter how serious the drinking was for my father, he always get up and went to work. Because for him you it was important to provide for his family.

LEMON: Gonzales who does not drink learned discipline in the Air Force. Went to college on the G.I. bill and earned a degree in political science from rice University and later a law degree from Harvard. After returning to Texas and a short stint in private practice, he met Governor George W. Bush.

And things started to happen. Bush made him his general counsel and he served as Texas secretary of state before Bush appointed him to the Texas Supreme Court.

GONZALES: I would have to say that he was a mentor. What it is like to be a father, what it is like to be the head of a local party, what it's like to be the head of a state, the head of a country. There are a lot of lessons I think one can learn simply by being around. And watching and listening. So yes. I think he had a significant impact upon me.

LEMON: Gonzales said he has no regrets.

GONZALES: As a lawyer, I think about the fact that probably the three most prestigious, perhaps most challenging positions would be counselor to the president, attorney general of the United States, and Supreme Court justice. And I've had two of the three. So people question, or say, well, poor Al or anything like. Hey, I say don't feel sorry for me. I've had a great run. And I'm privileged.

LEMON: Alberto Gonzales, a Latino first.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right. Thank you so much, Alberto Gonzales. Very open during that interview. And I have to say this, Gonzales' appointment to Texas Tech - well his post there drew some protests from faculty and students, some 40 faculty signed a statement questioning Gonzales' ethics during his time as attorney general but he responded by saying, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Again, thank you very much, Alberto Gonzales, for that interview. We're just three days away from "Latino in America." A comprehensive look at how Latinos are changing America, reshaping politics, businesses, schools, churches and neighborhoods. "Latino in America," coming October 21st and 22nd on CNN, the worldwide leader in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. Just looking at some of your comments from the social networking sites, and as I said, we want to hear all of it. Let's make sure. Let's get the ones here. The (INAUDIBLE) are coming in. OK. Here's what Msruck says. MS-R-U-C-K says "Hello, Don, I have to wonder what would have happened if that had been a black family."

Alexisannwall says "Thanks for the segment yesterday on social networking sites. Nice to see others using it in something worthwhile." And anti_fox_news says "Next time someone mentions the term liberal media ask them how Bush got elected twice. Ask them if the Bible is too liberal, too."

CharlesWinborne says "Innocent until proven guilty. Restrain yourself, please. I just turned the channel away from CNN news-a- tainment." Labrujaroja says "has spent almost as much time, @donlemon, on TV debating whether balloon story should take up TV time. He has been sucking the helium."

Hebrewdaughter says, "Blame does fall on the Heene parents but no blame on the ensationalism. What if the boy had fell from the sky on live TV? Did the media ever ask why weren't those kids in school?" It was a school holiday. We did ask that. "Please, I would rather hear about the balloon boy than Rush any day," and on and on and on. Thank you. I read all of them and I appreciate your comments.

I wish I had time to answer some of them, but we're running out of time. Thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us. Twitter, Facebook, MySpace or ireport.com, that's how you can get your thoughts on the air.

I'm Don Lemon at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. See you back here at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. "ANOTHER DAY: CHEATING DEATH" with CNN's chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta begins right now.