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Sheriff Says Balloon Saga a Hoax; Rahm Emanuel on Obama's Afghanistan Strategy; Tom Joyner Celebrates a Legal Victory for his Relatives; How to Manage Your Debt; Latino First: Alberto Gonzales

Aired October 18, 2009 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight police say it's a hoax and the balloon boy's family hires an attorney. We speak to him in just moment.

The man who claims a dad consulted him about setting up the stunt weeks before it happen speaks out tonight. We show you the e-mails and talk to the reporter who broke the story, live.

The president's chief-of-staff talks exclusively to CNN about his boss' Afghanistan war strategy. What did he say?

And he was President George W. Bush's attorney general. Alberto Gonzales left off under a cloud of controversy. Tonight, his side of the story and what is next for him.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Don Lemon.

Suspicions confirmed in Colorado. The homemade balloon that flew on a run away flight across the Colorado prairie on Thursday was revealed to be nothing more than a publicity stunt. That's according to the Larimer County sheriff. Here's how he broke the news.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF JIM ALDERDEN, LARIMER COUNTY, COLORADO: What we know at this point and what the hoax is, is that this has been a planned event for at least two weeks. The plan was to launch this spacecraft in order to gain media publicity. The plan was, obviously, to create a situation where it appeared that Falcon was in the craft and that his life was in jeopardy in order to gain a lot of publicity. And with the ultimate goal of gaining some notoriety, and perhaps furthering their career by obtaining a contract to do a reality TV show.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Richard Henne and his wife have not been arrested yet, but the sheriff says expect a long list of charges, including three felonies, conspiracy to commit a crime, contributing to the delinquency of a minor and attempting to influence a public servant. The most serious charges each carry a maximum six-year prison term and half million dollar fine. The Heenes will probably also be charged with filing a false report, a misdemeanor. The sheriff says the couple's three boys were in on the suspected hoax, but they probably won't face charges because they are so young.

Today, the Heenes hired a Denver attorney, David Lane. I spoke to him tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: David Lane, thanks for joining us. According to the sheriff in Larimer Country, these are some very serious charges that he is waging against the Heenes here.

DAVID LANE, HEENE FAMILY ATTORNEY (via telephone): Well, I believe they have raised possible felony charges against them.

LEMON: And your concern with that obviously from the letter that you sent, the statement that you sent? You didn't mention whether or not, you know, you believe your clients were innocent. You just said that you didn't want them arrested publicly. So I would imagine by representing them, are you representing them through this or do you believe in their innocence.

LANE: Well, I mean, right now, not only do I believe in their innocence, you should also. They should be presumed innocent until they have been proven otherwise. And the sheriff does not share information or evidence with me, so I have no reason to believe that they're not innocent at this point. If the sheriff has probable cause, a warrant will issue. And I am simply trying at this point to avoid what colloquially is known as the perp walk, where they have the handcuffs slapped on them in the presence of their children for the media's gratification after they aggrandize law enforcement.

I've told law enforcement, they are willing to turn themselves in. All you have to do is call me. I'll have them down in the sheriff's office within ten minutes. And let's see if they're true to their word that that's what they're going to do.

LEMON: Well, Mr. Lane, the interesting thing is that this family, and especially Richard Heene has never shied away from the media? So why now? Why, you know, put the children on national television, have it out there, be on reality shows, and then when it comes down to, you know, the charges or being arrested, he does all of a sudden doesn't want to be in the media anymore? It's a contradiction.

LANE: Well, you know, all I can tell you is as his lawyer, I'm calling the shots in the sense of how law enforcement should proceed. If they want to act as law enforcement officers. You don't arrest people in front of their kids. If you've got the goods on them, that's fine. We'll turn them in. And, you know, they can then proceed accordingly. If they can prove their case beyond reasonable doubt, they will convict the Heenes, if they can't, they won't. And that's my concern.

LEMON: When did Mr. Heene or Mrs. Heene get in touch with you?

LANE: Unfortunately, after they sat and had extensive interviews with law enforcement. I don't believe it's generally in any suspect's better interests to sit down and have extensive conversations with law enforcement.

LEMON: So that was after, what, today? Was it today? Yesterday?

LANE: Today.

LEMON: Today. They got in touch with you. And then they drove to Denver to come to your offices to speak with you?

LANE: Well, my office is in Denver.

LEMON: Yes. There is someone out there who is saying that -- Robert Thomas is saying that he has e-mails from Richard Heene setting this whole thing up, and it's been posted on Web sites. We're speaking to him, too, as well in this broadcast.

What do you say to them? Have you seen any of those e-mails?

LANE: I have not seen any evidence. If law enforcement has evidence, I'm sure I will see it. If charges get filed. But they don't confide in me in advance, so you know, as far as I'm concerned, the presumption of innocence exists for a reason. Until I see evidence to the contrary, they are presumed innocent.

LEMON: You heard the press conference I would imagine, or if you haven't heard it, I'm sure you read about it. The tactics that the sheriff used were questioned by some of the media there about how he got the couple to come in, and also he said he pushed the line when it came to the media as far as misleading the media.

What do you say about the tactics used in this case with your client? And then we'll talk about the media.

LANE: They're legal or they're not. I have to analyze what they did, if they had my clients in for questioning, and they were not free to leave, various constitutional protections kick in. I'd like to see a videotape of the interrogations, and if law enforcement has crossed the line, then law enforcement is going to have to pay the price for that.

LEMON: And what about he says he pushed the envelope. He pushed it up to the limit he said with the media where -- saying that he was sorry about it if he misled the media and public in any way.

LANE: Well, you know what? When the police themselves admit that they're pushing the line, it's usually safe to say they've crossed it extensively.

LEMON: What's next for your client?

LANE: My guess is the next event is I should get a call from the sheriff's department saying we have a warrant for their arrest. Will they please turn themselves in? You know? But we'll see if they're going to be true to their word and do that, or they're going to have a big media splash and slap the cuffs on these folks in front of their kids maybe.

LEMON: All right. Frame of mind for the couple when they came in? Did they bring the children with them? LANE: Well, I'm not going to be talking about, you know, how all that went.

LEMON: We're wondering how they are doing, their demeanor, if you know, if they were...

LANE: Let me just say I've met the kids personally. They are being insulated from this as much as the Heenes can possibly insulate them from it. The kids to me seem very happy, well-adjusted, normal kids.

LEMON: I was wondering about the demeanor of Richard and Mayumi Heene when they came in to speak.

LANE: Well, when your house has been searched by the police and public charges are being leveled against you, it's never a pleasant thing. And they are appropriately upset about all of this.

LEMON: David Lane, I appreciate you taking the time to speak with us.

David Lane is the attorney who is representing Richard and Mayumi Heene.

Thank you, David.

LANE: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: And during that conversation we talked about a man named Robert Thomas. And we're going to continue that conversation right now because it's yet another interesting tidbit here. It appears the whole balloon stunt may have been planned months ago.

Gabriel Snyder is the editor-in-chief of Gawker.com.

Gabriel, I spoke to you last night. I've been talking to you today.

We understand that a man named Robert Thomas told you that he help planned a balloon hoax. The sheriff also talked about him today saying that he wanted to speak to him. Full transparency, you paid him for the interview, but tonight he's finally spoken to police.

Have you heard from them?

GABRIEL SNYDER, GAWKER.COM (via telephone): No, I haven't actually heard from him. I believe those conversations are either ongoing, or he recently finished up. But approximately about two hours ago, he did tell me that he was talking to the Larimer County authorities.

LEMON: In these e-mails, he introduces -- who gets in touch with whom in these e-mails? SNYDER: Well, what happened was Robert is a Colorado State University student, and he had seen some of Richard Heene's videos online and shared a sort of similar interest in scientific phenomenon, and kind of had written him asking him if he might be willing to work with him on a Web site. And that led to just a collaboration, and eventually Richard asked him to work with him on developing a pitch for a reality TV show that they were preparing for, the producers of "Wife Swap," which Richard Heene had appeared on.

And so in the process of that, and this was the element that, you know, made us very interested in Robert's story. One of the episodes that they have proposed was conducting a huge national media hoax using a weather balloon that was going to look like a UFO.

This particular proposal didn't actually go anywhere, and Robert -- this all happened back in May, and Robert had actually stopped working with the Heenes, but he had grown very close to them. And when he saw on Thursday that there was a weather balloon that was on live on CNN and other networks, he immediately knew that it was Richard.

LEMON: So he put two and two together and said this is exactly the plan that he spoke to me about, and now it's playing out in the media.

So did he contact police? Do you know what happened? Is it the exact same plan that they had written about?

SNYDER: No, it's not the exact same plan. I mean, the one thing that he told me was that he had never actually -- Richard had never actually suggested involving his children. So I think the idea that they had proposed was sort of re-enacting the Roswell UFO Phenomenon. That they would launch this weather balloon, and I guess make people believe that it was a -- it was a UFO, and exploit that controversy as a way to promote this television show.

LEMON: Do you know why they stopped working together, Gabriel? Why Robert and Richard Heene stopped working together?

SNYDER: Well, they did have a falling out. I think there were a few reasons. You know, one reason was -- that Robert told me was that he was increasingly concerned about some of his beliefs. You know, he would -- he told me about sitting down, and he would tell him about how he believed that there were aliens among us who were reptilians who, you know, -- including Hillary Clinton and these were sort of far-out theories that he wasn't comfortable with.

Another issue was that, you know, he did -- he wasn't getting the -- the show wasn't going anywhere and he wasn't getting paid. So he eventually, you know, broke the relationship, and that was, you know, again, back in about June.

LEMON: Gabriel Snyder, thank you very much.

Very good information, Gabriel.

Thanks for talking to me last night, and thanks for following up again this evening.

And if you speak to Robert Thomas, get back with us in this broadcast and let us know how that interview went with police, OK?

Thank you so much.

Mr. Snyder -- Gabriel Snyder from Gawker.com, we appreciate it.

All right, so how did all of this come about, right? So at first the Colorado authorities, they seem to accept the Heenes' version of events. But when the family appear Thursday night on CNN, 6-year-old Falcon Heene let it slip that it was for a show. That was a quote from him. And then that changed everything.

Listen to the sheriff.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALDERDEN: It wasn't until the Larry King show, where the family was interviewed by Wolf Blitzer, that we had the first a-ha moment, if you would. And you all know what I'm talking about. When he was asked, "Why didn't you come down," and he said, I believe, "Mia said we did it for the show."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: In just a few minutes, we'll talk live with a spokeswoman for the Colorado Department of Human Services. Her name is Liz McDonough. And we'll discuss what happens in general to children when there are parenting concerns like this.

A tough decision for the president, and push back from his chief- of-staff on why the decision to send more troops to Afghanistan cannot be rushed.

And the health care debate is still very, very much on the national agenda. We're going to discuss it.

Also, we want to hear from you. Here's how you can do it on any of the social networks sites. Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, or iReport.com. Checking them right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Critics say President Obama is taking too long to decide if the U.S. should send thousands more troops into Afghanistan, but this morning on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION," the president's chief-of- staff told our John King that this decision is too important to be made in a hurry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAHM EMANUEL, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: It would be reckless to make a decision on U.S. troop level if, in fact, you haven't done a thorough analysis of whether, in fact, there's an Afghan partner ready to fill that space that the U.S. troops would create and become a true partner in governing the Afghan country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Chief-of-staff Rahm Emanuel told CNN that President Obama in his words will not be rushed into making a decision without asking firm questions and challenging the assumptions.

Afghanistan and health care are two of the issues that will dominate the president's agenda in the week ahead. And two of our favorite analysts are here tonight.

CNN political editor Mark Preston in Washington along with Lynn Sweet of the "Chicago Sun-Times" and PoliticsDaily.com.

Thank you both.

Good to see both of you.

LYNN SWEET, CHICAGO SUN-TIMES: Good to see you.

LEMON: Mark, I'm going to start with you tonight.

So, the president has another big meeting on Afghanistan, right? And it's on his agenda this week. So what is it? What's going to happen here? What's the newest challenge in this?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Well, you know, Don, I think we just heard it from the chief-of-staff there this morning on "STATE OF THE UNION." The fact is there's questions over what happened in the election in Afghanistan rights now. And this is another stumbling block right now. So how do you send troops over to a country where you think you have an agreement with the leader, although is he really the leader?

So right now the White House has to kind of pull back a little bit, which might buy them a little bit time as they try to figure out should they send more troops over to Afghanistan. But the fact is it's a complicating factor when you don't even know who is leading the nation.

LEMON: Yes. And let's talk about health care here with Lynn.

Lynn, you know, on health care reform, the Democrats got a little bit of traction this week, a little bit of traction this week. Will it help in the coming week at all?

SWEET: Well, it's hard to say what will happen. The White House started a very big assault against the insurance company. They thought they were able to partner with them and give them a seat at the table. There's been a break. Very harsh address from the president in his weekly address this week, where he said that the insurance companies accused him of deception and misleading the people.

Meanwhile, so what's going to happen? The big thing to look for in the House of Representatives is whether or not Nancy Pelosi can put together her Democrats and get her 218 votes for the bill. Don't expect any Republicans to help.

LEMON: And in health care, of course, we're talking about money as well. The concern is how is it going to be paid for.

But, Lynn, I know that you have been chasing a story this week for a financial regulation. The hearings are coming up this week as well.

What are you learning about that?

SWEET: Well, the mark-up starts on where, you know, the formal writing of the bill starts on Tuesday, and there's a proposal out there to have in essence a consumer financial product safety commission. Everyone in the House is not on board on that. It would seem in the wake of the economic meltdown. The House is moving ahead, however, on rewriting the regulations that regulate all our financial institutions, big debate between the banking industry over how many loopholes they think they can get through.

LEMON: You know, this is a question that I thought I would be asking Mark a year ago. You know, the president or, you know, Candidate Obama, what is he doing out on the campaign trail. But the president is going to be on the campaign trail this week, Mark.

PRESTON: Yes, he will be. No fewer than five political events on the president's schedule this week, Don, from fund-raisers to just flat-out rallies. You know, he'll start on Tuesday. He'll close it on Friday. Three of them that really jump out at me, though.

First, he is going to be going to New Jersey. He's going to try to help Jon Corzine, who will face the voters next month. Corzine is really caught in a tough re-election battle.

He's also going to help raise money for the Massachusetts governor, Duvall Patrick, as well as the Connecticut Senator Chris Dodd. They don't face the voters this year, Don. They face them next year. But if you look at early pooling, they're both in trouble.

LEMON: I got to ask you both, really quick. And, I mean, really short answers.

Lynn, you're fascinated by the balloon story, aren't you? You said your heart sank for that little boy when you taught --

SWEET: It did. I did. We would see live TV the death of a little boy overwhelmed me. I kept you, guys, on all day. I had to even turn it off, because I didn't want to see it. It was -- and that's right, if this is a hoax, it's just more aggravating and horrible to exploit people who really cared about what was going to happen to a kid.

LEMON: Mark, same thing. You are fascinated.

PRESTON: Yes, I did. Totally fascinated, captivated. It really was made for cable story. But Lynn is absolutely right. If it is a hoax, then that family really should pay the price. LEMON: Thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.

Have a good evening, OK.

PRESTON: Thanks.

SWEET: Thank you.

LEMON: See you next week.

A homecoming celebration turns violent. A star football player loses his life in college campus nightmare.

Also, tragedy at the Detroit marathon.

And beating cancer, one tweet at a time. We'll tell you how.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: A sweat lodge retreat pushing people to their limits or pushing too far?

A third person has died after participating in a two-hour ritual inside a cramped sauna-like dome in Arizona. Forty-nine-year-old Liz Newman passed away more than a week after she was hospitalized. Her family says she was otherwise healthy. And now, they're planning to sue over inappropriate safety measures at the event run by self-help expert James Arthur Ray. Investigators say they are treating all three deaths as homicides, and Ray is the focus of those probes.

Homecoming festivities at the University of Connecticut took a tragic turn. A football star was stabbed to death. Police say Jasper Howard, a Huskies quarterback, was stabbed to death in a fight outside a school dance after a win over Louisville. The 20-year-old father- to-be died early today. Another student was hospitalized and released. And the campus Web site warns the killer is still out there. But Howard's mother and teammates are stunned by the sudden heart break.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOANGELA HOWARD, MOTHER OF SLAIN PLAYER: He was a good kid. I never had no problems with him. All I wanted him to do was go to school and get an education. And he was doing what I asked him to do. I never had no problems with him. None.

DESI CULLEN, UCONN FOOTBALL PLAYER: This is so hard. You know, he -- before this morning, people might have looked at him as a teammate, as a friend, but ever since he stepped foot on this campus, he was our brother.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Desi Cullen, a team co-captain went on to say he'll make Howard's unborn child has over 100 uncles from the team. A tragic story out of Detroit. Three marathon runners, all men, collapsed sort of the finish line today and three died. Once victim was in his 60s, the other two victims were 36 and 26. There's no indication the men knew each other. The weather at the time was overcast with temperatures in the low 40s.

Chaos in Puerto Rico early today. Seven people were killed and at least 25 others wounded in a mass shooting outside a neighborhood bar and a grocery store. A prosecutor says the gunfire in a neighborhood west of San Juan may have been drug-related, possibly a turf war between rival gangs. Among the wounded a 9-year-old girl and a pregnant woman who lost her unborn baby.

A couple thousand police officers are patrolling the streets of Rio de Janeiro just named as the host of the 2016 Olympics. Rival gangs and police have been in an intense firefight over the last 24 hours. A police helicopter was shot out of the air crashing into a fiery ball right onto the streets. At least 14 people have been killed. Most of them in the hour-long firefight between rival gang members -- drug members I should say. And despite all that, Brazilian officials insist the violence is limited to the area, one area of the city and security won't be a problem for the 2016 games.

Our top story tonight. The sheriff of Larimer County says last week's run-away balloon episode was a hoax and he apologizes to the media. We'll tell you why.

Also, it's big, it's dangerous and it's headed for the western coast of Mexico. The latest on Hurricane Rick. We'll tell you where it's headed next, and if it's going to remain a category 5 storm.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Now you see the scenes of autumn right there. Oh, it looks great, but oh, there's snow, and it causes problems. So you see the pumpkin, the snow. What's the deal here?

This just happened in New Jersey this weekend and some other northeastern states. Several inches in some areas. The storm system brought cold temperatures and gusty winds, too, but it looks like things are improving.

I'm going to join -- I want Karen McGinnis to join us now. She's our meteorologist.

Karen, we thought it was going to be a lot worse yesterday. Still, it's going to be pretty bad. It's going to cause some delays, but better than expected.

(WEATHER REPORT)

LEMON: All right. Thank you, Karen McGinnis. We appreciate it.

Big turbulence for the balloon boy's family. The sheriff says it was all a hoax, and he said he had to trick the media to crack the case. Where we had? And what about all the coverage. We're talking about that.

And we're going to ask this lady, what about the Heenes three little boys. What does it all mean for them? We're talking with the spokeswoman for the Colorado Department of Human Services.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The balloon drama that soared on Thursday came crashing back to earth on Sunday. Authorities in Larimer County, Colorado, say the whole thing was a publicity stunt. Sheriff Alderden said the plot was hatched about two weeks ago. The motive allegedly was to generate national publicity that would get a TV deal for the Heene Family. Along the way, the sheriff admitted he mislead the news media in order to get at the truth.

For that, he apologized.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF JIM ALDERDEN, LARIMER COUNTY, COLORADO: I personally have to say I feel very bad, and I think we came up and bumped against the line of misleading the media. And boy, that is something I really take to heart that we don't do. I hope I didn't cross that line. I certainly know I bumped up against it by perhaps overstating our assurance or our belief that there was nothing behind this. We certainly were skeptical and I know I pretty emphatically stated that we weren't. If there was any manipulation to the media, it would be that. And for that I apologize.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So earlier tonight, I spoke with Howard Kurtz of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES," and I asked what he thought of the sheriff's apology and about the media's coverage of this story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD KURTZ, HOST, CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES" (via telephone): Well, the sheriff obviously is doing a little damage control because he did come out even after we found out no boy in the balloon, boy hiding in the rafters of the garage, and said we think this was a real event. And that I think in a way gave license to, you know, every television station on the planet to go crazy on this story.

Now, Don, I don't blame the media for covering that flying saucer in the air. I was transfixed. Everybody in my office was standing while looking at the TV. We had no way of knowing definitively at that time whether there was a boy in there or not. And I would have been the one who have been the executive producer that says, "Let's take that off the air, we'll come back when we know more." I mean, it's live television. These things happen.

But once we found out that the kid had never been on board, then I see, you know, I see the psychologist coming out and the experts, the hot air experts both literally and figuratively, and we decide we'll just going to pound this story to death and we're going to put this family on TV. We don't care if the kid keeps throwing up. We are going to exploit the story.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So the balloon saga might fascinate many people around the country, but people who know the family feel betrayed.

Affiliate KUSA spoke with a mother whose daughter was a classmate of Falcon Heene.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIMBERLY HICKS, DAUGHTER WAS CLASSMATE OF FALCON HEENE: I hugged this woman. I was there after the press conference. You know, like she seemed like a -- like genuinely frightened, you know, and relieved that her son had been found. And then watching the news today and hearing it's a hoax? Like, everyone is angry over that. Everyone is angry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, the Heene parents could be facing serious charges including contributing to the delinquency of a minor.

Liz McDonough joins me now from Denver. She's a spokeswoman for the Colorado Department of Human Services.

Thank you so much. Wish we could have met each other under better circumstances here. Listen, the entire country is concerned about these little boys mostly. They say, you know, whatever the adults face, they will have to deal with that. But everyone is focused on these little boys.

Can we -- can you assure the American public that their best interest is at heart and that you're taking care of that?

LIZ MCDONOUGH, COLORADO DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES: I can assure you that the focus of human services is solely focused on the safety and well-being of these children as well as any other children in Larimer County and across the State of Colorado.

LEMON: So contributing -- I know that there are some thing that you cannot answer, but contributing to the delinquency of a minor, they have not been arrested yet. But are you representing the children at this point?

MCDONOUGH: I can't speak specifically to the case, Don. I'm sorry.

LEMON: OK. But your office is where they would go, if those charges -- when those charges do happen, they would go to your office?

MCDONOUGH: The Larimer County Department of Human Services will be working very closely with the Larimer County Sheriff. And depending on the findings and conclusions of the sheriff, the Larimer County Department of Human Services will take whatever action is appropriate to ensure children are protected.

LEMON: OK. Even, you know, if it turns out that Richard Heene and his wife are found not guilty, there are those who say that even if you look at the circumstances surrounding, having the children on national television so much stress, the little boy throwing up twice on national television, that even now the children are in danger.

Are you looking at those tapes? Is that going to be evidence in all of this?

MCDONOUGH: In any case where the Department of Human Services receives information where the safety and well-being of children are perhaps at risk or compromised, the Department of Human Services' Obligation is to look into the case and gather whatever information is appropriate, share information with other agencies that have a role to play, and then take action as appropriate.

LEMON: Is there any red flag or anything that you see here, Ms. McDonough?

MCDONOUGH: You know, unfortunately, Don, as I said, I'm prohibited by Colorado law from discussing the specifics of this case. What I will tell you is that human services professionals across the State of Colorado, Larimer County included, are going to look at any evidence in any allegation that the safety and well-being of kids are being compromised and move forward to mitigate the risks or eliminate the risks to those kids.

LEMON: All right. Liz McDonough, a spokesperson for the Colorado Department of Human Services, thank you so much. We appreciate that you took your time out to join us tonight.

MCDONOUGH: Thanks a lot.

LEMON: And we are just weeks away from a time when a lot of people get further into debt here. The holiday spending period. And we're joined tonight by a financial expert. She's going to tell us how to financially navigate through the rest of the year and beyond.

There she is right there. She's going to join us after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Last week on Wall Street, a big celebration with all the bells and whistles.

(VIDEO CLIP)

The Dow passed the 10,000 mark on Wednesday. Right now it is about 5 points under that milestone, but was Wall Street alone in cheering last week? The unemployment rate is now at 9.8 percent, and foreclosure filings rose again in the third quarter. Well, one of the dirtiest four-letter words in America right now is debt, D-E-B-T, right? Well, if you've got it, you certainly aren't alone. And there's a lot that you can do to work your way out of the red, like don't spend a lot of money during the holidays, which I always do.

So "Washington Post" columnist and financial author Michelle Singletary joins us now live from Washington, D.C. Her new book is called "The Power to Prosper."

Thank you for joining us. Good to see you.

So what is the first step here? Is it right now don't get in trouble for the holidays?

MICHELLE SINGLETARY, COLUMNIST, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Right. If you just have to stop digging that hole. If you already have debt, you've got to put those cards away and create a plan to get rid of the debt you have.

Listen, if you are rolling over debt from month to month, meaning that you're not paying your credit card bill off every month, you're already in trouble.

LEMON: Yes. So really it's -- mostly, I guess, it's about credit cards, right? Because you keep, the credit card just keeps adding insult on top of injury, and it's sort of a snowball effect, right?

SINGLETARY: That's exactly right.

LEMON: So people are still in mortgage trouble, too, as well right now.

SINGLETARY: You know, it's just -- you know, people have been using like tsunami and hurricane and tornado. I mean, it's just -- everything has collapsed in at one time. People have credit card debt, then they have issues with their mortgages and they have issues with their mortgages because lots of people are out of work. And then they just can't figure out what to do. And I usually tell people first of all just be calm. And you still have to have a budget, even if you don't have a job because you've got some money somewhere hopefully that you've got to manage.

LEMON: You know, I hear this all the time, though, from the financial experts, and they say, you know, just -- they give you all of these points. But when there's so many things in the air, so many things all coming together at once, a culmination of so many things, as we said credit cards, mortgages, you know, and you have people who have floods here in Atlanta, what have you, and you have the holidays coming up because you're going to go back to school, and then I'm going on and on just to tell you, people are overwhelmed and sometimes, you know, us folks on television just telling them, OK, just get your head together, it doesn't -- I mean, come on.

What do we do? SINGLETARY: Well, what else are we going to do? Tell them to die. I mean, listen, you got to tell them that, because that's what you have to do. You have to calm down, start with a budget. And when I say budget, I mean, just take out a pencil and paper, write down everybody you owe, all your expenses all month long and figure out what is. If you're out of work and you really don't have a lot of money, what are the basic things you have to cover?

LEMON: But, Michelle, I just want to say, Michelle, are there certain things we should let go, though? I mean, should you say, OK, I'm going to give up on this. I'm going to let this go, I'm going to let this house go, I'm going to let the car go? Whatever. I'm going to sell this?

Should you prioritize, and that way, just let some things go?

SINGLETARY: You do have to let some things go. You may have to let cable go. You may have to let, God-forbid, let go of that cell phone plan.

LEMON: Got it. There you go.

SINGLETARY: You know, you do have to let something go. You may have to bring in a roommate. If you're a two-household couple, and you've got two cars, you may have to sell one of those cars. I mean, these are tough times and you've got to make some tough decisions. And if there's not enough money coming in, you absolutely have to let something go. And as the holidays run, you know, you can't -- you're not going to be able to do what you might have done last year.

LEMON: OK. All right, all right, thank you. That's good advice.

Get rid of cable, though? Then they can't watch us. Come on, Michelle.

It's good to see you. Thank you so much.

SINGLETARY: You're welcome.

LEMON: Radio host Tom Joyner celebrates a legal victory for his relatives. A South Carolina board rules in a case more than 90 years in the making.

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LEMON: A justice milestone this week. Two African-American men were officially exonerated by a South Carolina pardons board 94 years after they were executed for a murder they did not commit.

Radio talk show host Tom Joyner told us about the case last week. And I spoke to him after he heard the news on Wednesday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM JOYNER, HOST, "TOM JOYNER SHOW" (via telephone): Everyone has similar experiences either in their family or they know somebody in their community. You just don't know how deep it goes.

And, you know, racism is alive and well in this country, and until we can repair some of the deeds of the past, we cannot really look forward to going to the future.

The researchers we had on this case were very amazed that here was an injustice that a lot of white people, prominent white people, were behind the Griffin brothers. And I understand this is 1913. There was no CNN. There was no media like we have today. And this was 1913 in segregated South Carolina. You had so many white people came to their defense and petitioned the governor. So there's a lot more to this story, and I'm going to be looking into it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Joyner says he knows the outcome can't bring back his uncles, but it does bring a measure of closure to the family.

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LEMON: Time now for another chapter in our series "Pioneros: Latino First."

The first Latino to become the U.S. attorney, Alberto Gonzales. I met up with him in his new role on the campus of Texas Tech University.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON (voice-over): When last we saw Alberto Gonzales...

ALBERTO GONZALES, FIRST HISPANIC U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Good morning.

LEMON: ...he was wielding the power and influence that come with the title U.S. Attorney General. Today he is in a new role on campus at Texas Tech University in Lubbock, Texas. A recruiter for minority and underrepresented students, and a visiting professor teaching a course called "Contemporary Issues in the Executive Branch."

Gonzales knows all about issues. He was pressured to resign after two and a half years as George W. Bush's attorney general, dogged by accusations he misused the Patriot Act to uncover private information on U.S. citizens, denied rights to prisoners held in U.S.- run detention camps and then lied to Congress about all of it.

(on camera): Is there something that you want people to know about that experience, or what happened. Why you resigned?

GONZALES: I think unfortunately because Washington can be political, a lot of what happened towards the end I'd say 98 percent was political, quite frankly.

LEMON: Explain that. What do you mean?

GONZALES: Listen, you know, you had members of Congress making allegations that I'd engaged in perjury, criminal wrongdoing, and now had these investigations that have confirmed that none of that is true. But I think that for some people it was an opportunity to perhaps embarrass the president by going after someone they perceived as close to the president.

LEMON: Even to the end, President Bush fully supported you. How much did that help at all?

GONZALES: Well, of course, you know, that makes a great deal of difference. I serve at the pleasure of the president. I wouldn't want to serve him if he had questions about my abilities to serve effectively as the attorney general of the United States.

LEMON (voice-over): Loyalty, says Gonzales, trumped all else for Bush insiders, a bond forged during the worst attack on the U.S. ever at a time that Gonzales was serving as White House counsel.

GONZALES: It's like being in combat, being in a foxhole with someone. You have to depend on them. You have to trust them. On 9/11, Karen Hughes and I were standing outside the Oval Office when Marine One touched down that evening, and the president returning from Florida after making a couple of detour stops.

But I remember him, you know, coming -- getting out of Marine One and walking to the Oval Office and Karen and I saying something like, welcome home, Mr. President, and him kind of acknowledging us and just walking straight through into the Oval Office. The Oval Office was being readied for an address to the nation that night, so there was plywood on the floor, things like that. He walked straight through back to the back of his -- back to the study behind the Oval Office, and I guess it was me, Karen, Condi Rice, Ari Fleischer and Andy Card and the president. And for about half an hour or so, we talked about what had happened that day. And we began talking about what we're going to do as a country to respond. That's something that I'll remember for the rest of my life.

LEMON: Four years after 9/11, Gonzales became the first Hispanic U.S. attorney general with one clear mission.

GONZALES: The president made it clear that was going to be the number one priority for those of us working in the administration, is to protect our country.

LEMON: That's going to take a toll on anybody.

GONZALES: I think it was hard. It was hard on my family. Hard on my wife, and that was tough.

LEMON: So with his wife, Rebecca, and his sons Jared, Graham, and Gabriel in mind, Gonzales says he's done with the drama of politics.

ANNOUNCER: Stands tall. Touchdown Texas Tech.

LEMON: Texas Tech football games and travel are family affairs. They love exploring Texas, where Gonzales grew up. The second of eight children to parents of Mexican descent -- a religious mother, a construction-working, hard-drinking father.

GONZALES: He did have a drinking problem, but one of the things that I learned from my father was responsibility. No matter how serious the drinking was for my father, he always got up and went to work, because for him it was important to provide for his family.

LEMON: Gonzales, who does not drink, learned discipline in the Air Force, went to college on the G.I. bill and earned a degree in political science from Rice University. And later a law degree from Harvard.

After returning to Texas and a short stint in private practice, he met Governor George W. Bush and things started to happen. Bush made him his general counsel, and he served as Texas secretary of state before Bush appointed him to the Texas Supreme Court.

GONZALES: I would have to say that he was a mentor for what it's like to be a father, what it's like to be the head of a political party, what it's like to be the head of a state and head of a country.

There are a lot of lessons I think one can learn simply by being around and watching and listening. And so, yes, I think he had a significant impact upon me.

LEMON: Gonzales says he has no regrets.

GONZALES: As a lawyer, I think about the fact that probably the three most prestigious, perhaps most challenging positions would be counselor to the president, attorney general of the United States, and Supreme Court Justice. And I've had two of the three. And people question or say, well, poor Al or something like that. I say, hey, don't feel sorry for me. I've had a great run, and I'm privileged.

LEMON: Alberto Gonzales, a Latino first.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Gonzales' appointment to the Texas Tech post drew some protest from faculty and from students. Some 40 faculty signed a statement questioning Gonzales' ethics during his time as attorney general. Gonzales responded by saying everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

And we're just three days away from "LATINO IN AMERICA," a comprehensive look at how Latinos are changing America. Reshaping politics, business, schools, churches and neighborhoods. "LATINO IN AMERICA," coming October 21st and 22nd, only here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Thanks for all our social media type this week and this weekend. I went to Blog World in Las Vegas and we challenged the social media by raising awareness about cancer. It's still the number one trending topic on Twitter number one.

And so I want to say Inside45 says, "My mom didn't beat cancer, Don, after fighting strong for a year. Thanks for giving someone else a chance."

Again, thank you all for Blog World, and thank you, guys, for watching. Have a great week. And I'll see you next week. I'm Don Lemon at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.

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