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American Morning
Sheriff Says Balloon Boy Drama a "Hoax"; H1N1 Flu Shots Late Arriving; Open Season Has Started; Radio Talk; American Garment Industry Nearly Defunct; Latino Evangelicals; Health Care Secrets?; Judge under Fire for Nixing Interracial Marriage
Aired October 19, 2009 - 07:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, we're coming up on a minute before the top of the hour. Good morning to you. It's Monday, October 19th. Welcome to AMERICAN MORNING. I'm Kiran Chetry.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you. I'm John Roberts. Thanks for joining us.
Here are the big stories we'll be telling you about in the next 15 minutes. Police say the story of a young boy in that runaway balloon was an elaborate hoax, and now the parents who allegedly put their own kids up to it could be facing criminal charges. Earlier this morning, I talked to the family's attorney about a polygraph test that Richard Heene and his wife took.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID LANE, HEENE FAMILY ATTORNEY: Yes. The sheriff put both of them on a box and they have not shared with us whether or not they passed or failed. I have said that polygraph evidence is inadmissible in Colorado courtrooms for a reason, and that is it's just generally unreliable under the law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: In a moment, we'll take you live to Colorado for the very latest in this bizarre case.
CHETRY: Well, after weeks of promises, still no swine flu vaccine. The federal government said it would be available by now. Senior Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen goes in search of the shots to find out when they may be coming to a clinic near you.
ROBERTS: Pakistani military forces are pushing further into Taliban territory. Though right now, both sides are claiming early victories. The ground offensive taking place while General David Petraeus and Senator John Kerry are in Pakistan.
In a moment, we'll talk to former White House Chief of Staff John Podesta and Republican strategist Ed Rollins about the situation along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border.
But, first, police say the parents who cooked up the runaway balloon story in a quest for their own reality show may soon face the reality of criminal charges. The sheriff is saying the whole ordeal a hoax.
Our Dan Simon is live in Fort Collins, Colorado, this morning.
And, Dan, in the end, the sheriff has had to create a hoax himself here to try to smoke the Heenes out?
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.
A little bit of trickery there, the sheriff says he was able to lure the family to the station by saying they could pick up by what was left of their silver balloon. They showed up. At that point, the sheriff isolated them, did some independent interviews, the investigators did. At that point, they were apparently led to believe that the whole thing was a hoax.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICHARD HEENE, BALLOON BOY'S DAD: Hey, get (EXPLETIVE DELETED)!
SIMON (voice-over): That home video, the interviews.
R. HEENE: I'm really sorry I yelled at him.
SIMON: The call to 911.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Are you sure that he's in that?
MAYUMI HEENE, FALCON HEENE'S MOTHER: Yes. We looked everywhere.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SIMON: All of it, authorities say, part of an elaborate hoax orchestrated by the 6-year-old's parents, Richard and Mayumi Heene.
SHERIFF JIM ALDERDEN, LARIMER COUNTY, COLORADO: These people are actors. Not only have they appeared in several reality television shows and on YouTubes, we have since determined that, in fact, they met together -- the way that they met and established a relationship was in acting school in Hollywood.
SIMON: And the motive, according to the sheriff, was so the Heenes could better market themselves for a reality TV show. The alleged plot: to pretend that 6-year-old Falcon was inside that runaway balloon, he said was hatched two weeks ago.
What made authorities believe it in the first place?
ALDERDEN: They granted us complete access to their children to interview independently. After Falcon was found, they didn't even hesitate to allow us to talk to him outside of their presence.
SIMON: But Falcon, investigators believe, spoke the truth during the family's live appearance on CNN's "LARRY KING LIVE," only hours after the drama unfolded. The widely played interview proved to be the turning point.
R. HEENE: Did you hear us calling your name at any time?
FALCON HEENE, BOY FEARED MISSING: Uh-huh.
R. HEENE: You did?
M. HEENE: You did?
R. HEENE: Then why didn't you come out?
F. HEENE: You had you said that we did this for a show.
ALDERDEN: If you look at the nonverbal responses as well as some of the verbal cues, it became very clear to us at that point that they were lying.
SIMON: Still, even after authorities became skeptical, they publicly backed the family, admitting now to misleading the media so the Heenes would trust them. The couple could face multiple charges, including three felonies: conspiracy between the husband and the wife to commit a crime, contributing to the delinquency of a minor, and an attempt to influence a public servant.
Their attorney says they should be presumed innocent.
DAVID A. LANE, ATTORNEY FOR RICHARD AND MAYUMI HEENE: I mean, if they have probable cause to make an arrest, then make an arrest and give me the evidence and we can -- it's analogous to a batter standing in the batter's box waiting for a pitcher to throw a pitch. You can't swing until they throw the pitch. Throw the pitch and then we'll see.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SIMON: Well, another twist to this whole thing, it turns out that that balloon could not have even taken off the ground in the first place. The sheriff consulted with a physics professor from Colorado State University who determined that would have been absolutely impossible to get a 37-pound boy on board and have it take off -- John?
ROBERTS: Dan Simon for us from Fort Collins this morning -- Dan, thanks so much.
The outrage over this story evident by some of the iReports that we have been getting in. Here's what some of you are saying about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, IREPORT)
JASON VERLAINE, IREPORTER: I am outraged, outraged! And you should be, too. Were you there with me, like, watching for hours, like pulling for this kid, "Oh, my God, is he up in the air, is he going to be OK, he landed all right" -- and then he's not in the balloon and we're thinking to ourselves, "Oh, my God, did he fall out? Ouch! What's going on?"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JASON DINANT, IREPORTER: The children should be removed from that household, because with parents that irresponsible, it's not a good place for those children to be. I think the whole situation should be evaluated by child service people and I'd hope that they'd make the right decision for those children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: And we'd like to hear from more of you. Call our show hotline at 1-877-MY-AMFIX. You can also head to our blog at CNN.com/amFIX.
CHETRY: I can't wait from you guys.
Well, since last spring, the H1N1 virus has killed more than 80 children in the country, many of them were healthy before this happened. Well, eleven of those fatalities recorded in the past week alone.
And despite the assurances we have gotten from the federal government, first of all that the vaccine was safe, and that we were to take it, then there would also be a decent amount of H1N1 vaccine available. Well, as of now, it's scarce.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANNE SCHUCHAT, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL: We wish that we had more vaccine and there is more vaccine coming out every day, but it doesn't look like we're going to be able to make those estimates that we had projected for the end of this month.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Well, our senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, is here.
And, so, you know, on one hand, they were criticized -- the government -- right, for even talking about, "Yes, it's safe. We want people to get out and get it." There are a lot of questions surrounding that.
Now that people have said, "You know what? I don't want to mess around; I don't want to take chances with my kids. I'd like to get them vaccinated" -- they can't take the shot. What's going on?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. It is a little bit of a situation they find themselves in. And, Kiran, the Centers for Disease Control blames the current shortage on manufacturing delays.
Here's what that means to you if you're looking for an H1N1 vaccine.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN (voice-over): For months now, a clear message.
DR. THOMAS FRIEDEN, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: Vaccine is by far our best tool to prevent influenza.
SCHUCHAT: We think vaccines are the best way to protect yourself and your kids from this virus.
COHEN: And yet, for most of us, there's no vaccine to be found. And where you can find it, it's scarce. That has Dr. Bruce Ribner very worried.
DR. BRUCE RIBNER, EMORY HOSPITAL: We've had a number of young, healthy patients on ventilators and even dying in the intensive care units. Our supply...
COHEN: At Emory hospital in Atlanta, a quiet desperation is in the air.
(on camera): So here's your H1N1 vaccines.
RIBNER: Here's our H1N1. As you can see, it's a very small amount. We got one fifth of the amount of vaccine that we anticipate we will need.
COHEN: And you're hoping for more?
RIBNER: We're hoping desperately for more.
COHEN (voice-over): I'm hoping desperately to find H1N1 vaccine for my children.
(on camera): I'm going to call my local drugstore and see if they have H1N1 shots yet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How may I help you today?
COHEN: Hi there. I'm trying to find out if you have H1N1 shots at my local clinic?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not yet now. We're not set to have those until around mid-November. That's around November 15th.
COHEN: I'm going to go to Flu.gov. That's the federal government's Web site. They have something called a flu shot locator.
(voice-over): The federal government sends me to the state government which sends me to the county government.
(PHONE RINGING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good afternoon...
COHEN: Where they tell me I can get the nasal spray vaccine for my 3-year-old, but my other three children will have to wait. How long? They're not sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There aren't vaccines right now.
COHEN: In the meantime, at Emory, they're vaccinating as many workers as they can.
(on camera): I came to Emory Hospital here in Atlanta to see one of the first health care workers get an H1N1 vaccine. Her name is Dr. Nadine Raphael. She's 33 years old, and she's pregnant.
Is this -- this is kind of a scary time to be pregnant.
DR. NADINE ROUPHAEL, EMORY HOSPITAL: It is.
COHEN: H1N1 flu seems to be especially tough for pregnant women.
ROUPHAEL: Right. More than what we heard for seasonal flu.
COHEN: So, this is it. This is your room, huh?
ROUPHAEL: Yes.
COHEN: After you.
There you go. The shot you just got, is that for you or for your baby?
ROUPHAEL: Both.
COHEN: Dr. Rouphael is relieved to get the vaccine, to protect herself and the baby she's expecting.
Now the question is, when will the rest of us get it?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN: Now, here's an example of how this shortage is playing out. Here in Georgia, they were told to expect 2 million doses of vaccine by the end of this month. Now they're told they'll get less than half that -- Kiran?
CHETRY: Very, very interesting. I did some of the same calls you did. I called 311 here in New York to find out about it, they said they didn't have any yet. But I went on Walgreens' Web site and they claim that they do have it, September through February, H1N1 shots are available, but it says call for more information.
COHEN: OK. Well, that's a good tip. I'm going to try that as soon as I'm done with this.
CHETRY: But, you know, it's also interesting, you mentioned that one of your children could get a shot. You said your 3-year-old. I also have a 3-year-old. Is there something about that age group that makes them more vulnerable?
COHEN: Yes. Well, here in Georgia, where they don't have a whole lot of vaccine, like in other parts of the country, they said, "Look, we have the nose spray vaccine and we will give it children ages 2 to 4," that's when they said when they called when I called on Friday. Only one of my children falls into that age range.
All of my children should get the vaccine because -- well, they're children and that's considered a high priority group. I'm told that's going to change soon and soon they will open up that vaccine to older children. So I'm just waiting.
CHETRY: Wow. All right, well, keep us posted; because I know that there are a lot of families that are concerned about it, especially, it seems everywhere you turn, somebody's sick, you know?
COHEN: That's right. Absolutely.
CHETRY: All right. Thanks, Elizabeth.
COHEN: Thanks.
ROBERTS: All you have to do is turn to the right.
CHETRY: Everywhere you turn. No, it's not the swine flu...
ROBERTS: It's not a flu though.
CHETRY: This is just a good old fashioned cold.
ROBERTS: No, I don't think so.
CHETRY: Well, also new this morning, they're expecting to do autopsies today on three runners who died during the Detroit marathon yesterday. All of them were running the half marathon. One man was just 26 years old, another, 36. They all collapsed within 16 minutes of each other.
They're saying it's a bit of a mystery right now, especially because it wasn't extremely hot. In fact, the weather was between the 30s and 40s.
ROBERTS: That's pretty amazing.
It wasn't a game; it was a shame for the NFL's Tennessee Titans, who lost to Tom Brady and the New England Patriots, 59-zip on Sunday. That's right, 59-nothing in the snow in New England.
Brady set a record by throwing five touchdown passes in the second quarter alone. He had six in all. The 45-0 halftime lead was the biggest in league history. It's the largest margin of victory in the NFL in more than 30 years in Tennessee's season of shame continues, 0-6 now while the Patriots move to 4-2.
CHETRY: All right. Well, a Louisiana justice of the peace who refused to marry an interracial couple says he has no plans to resign. Meantime, Louisiana's governor and Senator Mary Landrieu, two of them, many leaders, who are calling on Keith Bardwell to step down. But Bardwell says he has no regrets and would make the same decision again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEITH BARDWELL, JUSTICE OF THE PEACE: Everybody hates me. I mean, really. And I don't know why. I mean, I treat people, you know -- I figure, equal, good. I have one problem with marrying mixed race marriages, and that is the offspring.
BETH MCKAY, DENIED MARRIAGE LICENSE: It's over racism, and we are used to the closet racism, but we're not -- we're not going to tolerate the overt racism from an elected official.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Beth and Terence McKay were married last week and we are going to talk to the newlyweds when they join us in about 20 minutes here on AMERICAN MORNING.
ROBERTS: "I have concerns about the offspring"? What is that all about? By the way, some people have e-mailed to say, I should be at home if I'm sick. Guess who I caught it from?
(LAUGHTER)
CHETRY: I caught it from Christine, if it makes you feel any better.
ROBERTS: We're still searching for patient zero.
John Podesta and Ed Rollins are just ahead with all the latest political news of the day.
Stay with us. Twelve minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the "Most News in the Morning."
Right now, the White House is debating whether to send more troops to support an afghan government that many people are calling illegitimate, after claims the presidential election was tainted by fraud.
Joining me now to talk about this and more: John Podesta, he's the founder and president of the Center for American Progress, also the former chief of staff for President Clinton; and Republican strategist and CNN senior political analyst, Ed Rollins.
Good morning to both of you.
ED ROLLINS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning.
JOHN PODESTA, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: Good to be here.
ROBERTS: So the Afghanistan electoral complaints commission, we don't have the official release of the report, but talking to American officials, we understand that it will say that Karzai didn't get the requisite 50 percent of the vote -- that requires a runoff election. John Kerry whom we talk this morning said that he doesn't believe we should send more troops into Afghanistan until there is a legitimate and functioning Afghanistan government.
John, what do come in all that? What do you think we should do about that?
PODESTA: Well, I think, as Rahm Emanuel said yesterday, you need a functioning partner in order to have a strategy that -- particularly, that's built around counterinsurgency. And until Afghanistan demonstrates, can produce a functioning partner, it seems to me that would be foolish to send more troops.
ROBERTS: But General McChrystal says there's a finite amount of time to achieve success in Afghanistan or lose the whole thing. And Senator John Cornyn said yesterday, quote, "Deliberation begins to look more likely indecisiveness, which then becomes a way of emboldening our enemies."
PODESTA: I think that's correct. And I think to a certain extent you have to set certain terms and very quick. Another critical thing is you have to make sure that our men and women who are there are not in jeopardy by - and obviously we get some serious casualty figures the last several weeks. So, I think the key thing here is, 8I don't disagree with the President of the White House in saying that you have to have a good, stable partner, but I think you have to put a quick time frame on it. And say that if you do this we will do this.
ROBERTS: You're not in agreement, John? If you think there needs to be a very good timetable on this...
PODESTA: Yea, I think there needs to be -- yeah, there needs to be markers put on the ground right now to see whether you can stand up a government that can work with us.
ROBERTS: For how long?
PODESTA: Well, I think it's probably weeks and months, you know, it can't drift into the New Year, for sure.
ROBERTS: Right, David Axelrod over the weekend, shifting gears here, took aim squarely at Wall Street banks, saying its offensive the level of bonus compensation that they're planning on giving after they received so much help from the government. But at the same time, it was the White House's policies that allowed them to do this. Are they trying to have it both ways here?
PODESTA: Well, I don't know if it's happening both ways. I think they had to stabilize the financial system. This dates back into the Bush Administration, but they did inject finances into these institutions. I think what's particularly galling for people, not just in the White House or the Administration, but for the American public, is they're up there, lobbying against financial re-regulation reform to creating consumer protection. So they're actively lobbying against doing something against the problems that led to this problem while taking these bonuses.
ROBERTS: Is this a political problem for the White House, Ed, that on the one hand, the banks are making money, places like Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan making $3 billion in a quarter, planning on giving out these huge bonuses, and at the same time, unemployment nudging towards 10 percent.
ROLLINS: It is a political problem. I mean obviously as you get closer to the midterm, members of Congress who are in the marginal districts will yell and scream more. I think the problem is they didn't set any ground rules when they were doling out the money to save these banks and to a certain extent, they're never going to self- regulate themselves. They are never going to say I don't deserve this large sum of money. I didn't get it last year so I deserve more this year. And you contrast that with a record high unemployment that's potentially going to move towards, at least in the last 25 - 30 years, and I think to a certain extent, there will be a political backlash.
ROBERTS: So, where's the regulation?
ROLLINS: Well, if the banks, I think if the banks were smart, they would show some restraint here. Where's the regulation? They're trying to - trying to push it through, particularly Barney Frank, Congressman Frank is trying to move this legislative package through the Congress, but it's been a tough slog and there's a lot of opposition from the very people who were benefited from taxpayer and government intervention on their behalf.
ROBERTS: Well you know the banks are smart; they wouldn't be making this money if they weren't smart. And the heads of somebody, the heads of Goldman Sachs saying that I care more about making my people happy than I do the government happy so I'm going to pay them this money.
PODESTA: Well you know, that - that -- at some level, I think that there has to be a price to be paid for the fact that it was this set of institutions that created the financial crisis that led to this deep recession. And I think the President had to act in order to pull the country back from the brink of real crisis. But there, you know -- hopefully, this bipartisan commission that's investigating what led to the crisis will really point some fingers at what went wrong.
ROLLINS: It used to be a policy, what's go ahead for General Motors, is good for America. Obviously, that's not true anymore. What's good for Goldman Sachs is not necessarily good for America. The problem is, these banks have not basically put money back into the economy and helped the small business people that need it.
ROBERTS: Real quick on health care, Valerie Jarrett yesterday saying that the President wants to see a public option, he's pursuing it, not demanding it be there. Can there be meaningful health care reform, Ed, without one?
ROLLINS: I don't think so. I think that's the Achilles heel at this point in time. Certainly the House liberals want it, but that's the issue that probably keeps Olympia Snowe and probably keeps some real problems in the Senate.
ROBERTS: Can you have meaningful reform without a public option?
ROLLINS: Well, I -- obviously, I think the president -- and I would refer to see a public option. I think the debate have been sort of been channeled now between what Senator Snowe has proposed, which is a triggered public option and the House public option, there's a state-based public option that Senator Schumer's proposed. And I think we've got to see where the votes are, and see particularly, where the votes are in the Senate. And I think you'll see some form of public option in that range, but I think that we've got to see where a majority of the Senators come down on this.
ROBERTS: Just before we go, John, one more question. You've been working with Maria Shriver who's joining us a little bit later on this week, a woman's nation report. What were the major findings of this?
PODESTA: Well we've hit a tipping point in our country. We are about to have a majority of workers in America are going to be women. Two-thirds of households, the woman is either the primary bread winner or co-bread winner. And quite frankly, I think the institutions, government, business, faith-based institutions; the media itself have not caught up with that trend. It's been tremendously transformational. But we don't style a workplace in which families can be strong and function, because we need to kind of focus on the needs of these new families and deal with issues like more work base flexibility, paid sick days, other issues that both business, I think, and government have a responsibility to push forward in this time, of very tremendous transformation. Which I think just kind of snuck up on us, actually.
ROBERTS: Well, we look forward to talking with the First Lady of California about all that. John Podesta, Ed Rollins, great to see you this morning - Kiran.
PODESTA: Thank you.
ROLLINS: Thank you.
CHETRY: Still ahead, Carol Costello is going to join us with a look at talk radio. Did they have a formula for hooking listeners psychologically? She takes a look. Twenty-two minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Good morning, Los Angeles. Beautiful shot this morning, where it's 65 degrees right now -- only going up a couple of degrees in L.A. partly cloudy today, going up to 67. Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. Stephanie Elam is minding your business this morning, and she has more on -- it's called open enrollment right now for a lot of people that are getting their insurance.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Open season.
CHETRY: Some are calling it open season because everyone's going to be paying more for health care.
ELAM: A lot of people got the -- these packets that come in the mail and have nice, happy colors on them and they look all accessible, and people open them up, and they realize there's a lot more pain than they're looking at here. And it's true for so many people. Here's the thing that you can basically expect. You're going to be paying more. When you figure out what you need to do for your health insurance this year, plan on paying more. You are going to have higher out-of-pocket costs for one thing. That's definitely going to go up. The aging population is part of the issue here. More technology being used in health care and the government is also shifting costs. So that's part of the issue.
Co-pays are now going to become co-insurance. And the idea basically is you're paying a percentage of the expense instead of that $20, $25 co-pay. That means you're going to be paying more for that as well, You're talking about maybe the health insurer paying 20 - or 80 percent and you're paying 20 percent, something along that lines.
Also expect fewer options. You are going to have less options as far as HMO's, you may even have to change your doctors to stay in your health plan. That's another big issue for a lot of people. And you're going to find incentives to stay healthy. Maybe if you join a plan to stop smoking, you join some sort of plan to lose weight. These things are encouraged by the employers and also for the insurers because of the fact that a healthy employee costs everyone less.
So they want people to do that. And so you may get gift cards and the like. But the other interesting thing, they want to know who your dependents are. Because if you have a dependent who really -- like a spouse, could have insurance someplace else, they'll tack on extra charges for that too.
ROBERTS: Really, that's interesting.
ELAM: Yes. There's a lot of little things in there, you got to read it all, and don't miss your window. Make sure you take care of that.
ROBERTS: Yea because if you miss your window...
(CROSSTALK)
ELAM: You're just out of luck.
ROBERTS: You got to pay attention to that because we're in open season -- I mean, open enrollment too.
ELAM: Yea, open season -- get out your guns.
ROBERTS: Stephanie Elam, thanks so much, "Minding Your Business" this morning.
So how did this bizarre story out of Louisiana an interracial couple comes before the justice of the peace and says, I want to get married. And he said, nope, not going to do it, don't believe in interracial marriages. We'll talk to the two of them, coming up right after this, 26 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. Who doesn't like to vent? Who doesn't want to be heard item from Rush Limbaugh to Randi Rhodes, talk radio has power. Carol Costello joins us now from Washington for the first in our special series on talk radio. And Carol has a look now at exactly who's listening and why. Hey, carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, it's fascinating. We hear it all the time, talk radio, especially conservative talk, is so powerful, some say it's made our country viciously partisan. Some also say it's become so influential, it can actually determine who we elect to public office. Over the next three days, our goal is to examine if that's all really true. Today, a look at who's listening to talk radio and why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WHP 580 and whp580.com.
COSTELLO: It's 3:00 Wednesday afternoon and Irera Wagler, a self-described libertarian, is finishing up his work day with WHP's conservative talker, Bob Durgan.
BOB DURGAN, WHP'S CONSERVATIVE TALKER: You're talking about life and death.
COSTELLO: Bob Durgan, what do you like about him?
IRERA WAGLER, SELF-DESCRIBED LIBERTARIAN: Bob is a fireball. I really like him. He gets things stirred up locally.
DURGAN: Nobody cares! I don't understand it. I'm sorry to bust your bubble here. I don't understand it. Nobody understands it except you.
WAGLER: Loves to go off on tangents. I love to listen to him. I agree with, you know, most, not everything he says.
COSTELLO: By the time Durgan's show hits the airwaves, Wagler has already been listening to whp's all-conservative lineup for more than eight hours. R.J. Harris in the morning. Then Glen Bat, Rush Limbaugh, Bob Durgan, and Michael Savage.
It's the kind of intense loyalty conservative talk radio attracts far more than liberal talk. Ten of the top 11 radio talk shows are conservative. The king -- Rush Limbaugh, with 15 million listeners.
RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: It's all fake with the Obama crowd. Nothing is real. It is all a lie.
COSTELLO: Psychiatrist Gail Saltz says Limbaugh's style appeals to those who feel they have no voice. DR. GAIL SALTZ, PSYCHIATRIST: He's essentially, kind of, operating like the bully. And if you're on the playground, do you want to be the bully's, you know -- under bully's wing and go along with him and get therefore some power by proxy too? Or do you want to be, like, left out alone on the playground where who knows who's going to take you out?
COSTELLO: Saltz says conservative talkers are more popular than liberal talkers because they attract the kind of person who likes strong, aggressive message.
WHP's Bob Durgin.
BOB DURGIN, WHP RADIO CONSERVATIVE TALK SHOW HOST: The average conservative is an A personalities, the average liberal is a B personality and B personalities generally are usually more compassionate, more low key, more blah, blah.
COSTELLO (on camera): You're making those things sounds bad. What's wrong with compassion?
DURGIN: Nothing's wrong -- I'm compassionate. I'm just saying that that's what their priorities are. And they're boring. They're just, frankly, boring. And I think that's why they're failing.
COSTELLO (voice-over): Randi Rhodes, who many consider a liberal talker, says bull. She says liberals may have more empathy than conservatives, but the reason they don't passionately listen to liberal talk radio is access.
RANDI RHODES, SYNDICATED INDEPENDENT RADIO HOST: So 91 percent of talk radio is conservative.
COSTELLO: According to "Talkers" magazine, liberal talkers fill just 9 percent of the nation's news talk radio on the commercial dial. Change that, Rhodes says, and liberal listeners would listen just as much.
RHODES: You have to realize people are listening for two reasons -- one, they have no choice and they might just love talk radio, like me, I just love it, and the other thing is they love to be angry.
COSTELLO: That angry part is something that Ira Wagler (ph) can relate to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I trust no politician in this world, and that includes Republican and Democrat. I know what I believe. You show many where I'm wrong, I'll consider it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: And since more people listen more passionately to conservative talk radio, a little bit more about those listeners. They are mostly conservative, better educated, and more affluent than the typical listener. And they are engaged politically. According to "Talkers" magazine, 74 percent vote. In light of that, does that make talk radio powerful politically? We'll examine that issue tomorrow -- John, Kiran?
ROBERTS: Looking forward to that. No question, it draws a lot of loyal viewers, Carol.
COSTELLO: It does -- passionate listeners.
CHETRY: Sometimes you listen just so you can yell back at talk radio. So you don't necessarily have to have the same ideology. You like to just get yourself riled up
COSTELLO: And you have hit an important point, Kiran, because 56 percent who listen to talk radio identify themselves as independent. You know, we often forget that talk radio is entertainment. They're trying to keep your attention to make money. It's a business.
ROBERTS: I've said twice now this morning, viewers, instead of listeners, it's because they're all online, anyways. Everybody's got a television in the studio.
COSTELLO: And they're on television, write books --
CHETRY: They're on the Youtubes. They're all over.
(LAUGHTER)
ROBERTS: Carol, thanks so much for that.
What do you think about the tactics being used to keep you listening? Now it's your turn to sign off. Comment on Carol's talk radio story on CNN.com/amfix.
CHETRY: All right.
Well, checking our top stories now, the justice department issuing new guidelines on medical marijuana today. Federal prosecutors are being told not to pursue cases against people who use or supply pot in compliance with state laws. That is a significant change from Bush administration policy.
Medical marijuana use is allowed in 14 states.
ROBERTS: Trouble in paradise. A hurricane watch has been issued for southern Baja California. Resorts there could get hit by hurricane Rick. The storm has weakened to a category three, but that's still 125-mile-an-hour winds, and forecasters say it is still very dangerous.
CHETRY: And this morning, the attorney for the parents accused of staging Thursday's balloon boy drama is speaking out. Earlier John had a chance to talk with David Lane, who criticized the sheriff's decision to publicly call the 90-minute ordeal a publicity stunt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID LANE, ATTORNEY FOR RICHARD AND MAYUMI HEENE: They are my clients, so I've heard a lot from them. And yes, at this point -- and obviously, this is something the public rolls their eyes at, unfortunately, but the presumption of innocence should be given to them. And the sheriff having a press conference saying that they're guilty does not make them so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: So far, Richard and Mayumi Heene have not been charged with anything. The sheriff, though, says they're considering demeanor and felony charges.
ROBERTS: You know buying American-made products is good for the economy, but what if it's almost impossible, say, in the world of fashion, for example.
CHETRY: Alina Cho shows us now just how much of the clothing that we buy is actually not made in America these days. It's a huge number.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And here, in a few short blocks on Broadway, between 34th and 40th street, is the heart of the American garment industry, the industry that makes clothes for you.
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: New York's garment district, once bustling, now bust. In its heyday, New York City's number one employer. Today, sewing machines sit idle. Most of the jobs are gone.
CHO (on camera): What's going on?
FERN MALLIS, SVP, IMG FASHION: Well, you know, greed. Greed is a big part of it.
CHO (voice-over): Designers, many now owned by huge conglomerates, are watching the bottom line more than ever, making clothes cheaper by shipping the work overseas.
MALLIS: Made in America means something, and it used to mean so much more. I mean, we invented blue jeans. Where are they made now? Everywhere but in America.
CHO: It didn't used to be that way. In 1965, 95 percent of American clothing was made in the USA. Today, it's down to 5 percent.
The subject of a new HBO documentary called "Schmatta, Rags to Riches to Rags."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The garment industry is a microcosm of everything that's going on in this country.
CHO: Shining a light on a section of New York that was once emblematic of the American dream.
NANETTE LAPORE, DESIGNER: What's disappearing is the idea that people emigrate here and they come with a craft and they can get into a job and they can build their life.
CHO: Like Linda and Doug Kesselman. Their factory makes garments trimmings. But business is down 30 percent to 40 percent in the past year along. What's worse, the Kesselman's lease is up in 2011, and it's not up for renewal.
LISA KESSELMAN, CO-OWNER, KESSELMAN TRIMMING INC.: We're losing our identity. We were built on manufacturing. We were built on craft. This is our identity. This is what our ancestors came to do. We're becoming just a nation of farming it out.
CHO: If the Kesselmans go, so too will their workers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's sad because for people like me, raising a family, with really no skills, you know, we depend on the garment district.
KESSELMAN: Give us a fighting chance. This is ridiculous. We are backed up against the wall with no place to turn. And it won't just be us. It will everybody who does this.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHO: So what does that mean for fashion's future? Fern Maliss, who runs Fashion Week, tells me that students who are coming to New York to study fashion are doing so really to learn from the best. But they're being forced to go back to Asia to work, guys, because there are simply no jobs here in the United States anymore.
The garment district is really a shell of what it used to be. You see those old pictures and the video of those racks going down the street...
ROBERTS: Even ten years ago, they were doing that.
CHO: That's right. And you don't really see that anymore. It's really, really sad, especially when you listen to these factory workers who say, yes, everybody's saying "buy America, buy America." The problem is, only 5 percent of American clothing is made in the United States anymore, so that's nearly impossible to find.
CHETRY: Maybe we should say "make in America," instead. You know how cheap you can get products and clothing that are made in places where it doesn't cost as much.
CHO: That's right. These fashion industries owned by huge conglomerates are watching the bottom line more than ever and shipping the work overseas.
ROBERTS: Alina, thanks so much.
Full disclosure and truth in journalism -- we should say that the interracial couple that were going to join us, they're stuck in traffic and we hope that they make it by the end of the show. But for those of you who are hanging around and waiting for it, we'll try to do it, but we don't want you to get angry at us because we promised it and then...
CHETRY: Either way, we'll talk to them. Hopefully they'll make it during our live program. We'll talk to them and bring it to you tomorrow.
Meanwhile, we are following a hurricane out in the Pacific as well as cold weather across the country. Rob Marciano will join us in just a moment. It's 39 minutes after the hour.
(CROSSTALK)
CHETRY: Beautiful shot of Central Park this morning in New York City, shot of the reservoir. You can see some of the ball fields there. The sun is shining, which is a welcome change from what we've seen the past few days.
It's going to be a high of 54 degrees today in New York City. Right now it's 40.
(WEATHER BREAK)
ROBERTS: It's coming up on 44 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
Here at CNN, we're looking into what it means to be Latino in America. Today, we meet the Reverend Samuel Rodriguez. He's the voice of the Latino Evangelical Movement.
CHETRY: Yes, there's one key issue that sets him apart from his white conservative counterparts.
Thelma Gutierrez reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's a rock star to Latino evangelicals. He preaches in English.
REV. SAMUEL RODRIGUEZ, PRESIDENT, HISPANIC EVANGELICAL ASSOCIATION: That Jesus Christ is Lord.
GUTIERREZ: And in Spanish.
The Reverend Sam Rodriguez describes his style as a little Dr. Martin Luther King.
RODRIGUEZ: I believe that we're about to see a great moment of emancipation.
GUTIERREZ: A little Billy Graham.
RODRIGUEZ: We'll bow down to the authority of God.
GUTIERREZ: With what he says is a lot of salsa.
(on camera): That was quite a sermon. You have English, Spanish and rap.
RODRIGUEZ: The reality of who we are.
GUTIERREZ (voice-over): They are Latino Evangelicals, 16 million strong. And as president of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference, he is their leader. He has influence.
RODRIGUEZ: My prayer is that this Congress remembers another 12 million people living in the shadows.
GUTIERREZ: Reverend Rodriguez is determined to wield his political clout.
RODRIGUEZ: They should worry both the Democrats and the Republicans; the fact of the matter that we're not going to sell out our values for the sake of political expediency.
GUTIERREZ: The Reverend says, traditionally, Latino Evangelicals tend to vote Republican and align themselves with white conservatives on issues like traditional marriage and abortion.
But immigration, that's the deal breaker.
RODRIGUEZ: That scares the daylights out of many Americans. How dare we, is this the Latinozation (ph) of America, one for English, press two for Spanish. That's the elephant in the immigration reform room.
GUTIERREZ (on camera): What if they say, fine, go elsewhere, we don't need you?
RODRIGUEZ: They don't need 47 million Hispanic Americans? This is the largest minority group in America.
GUTIERREZ (voice-over): Republican leaders want Latino voters back after losing them in the last election.
MIKE HUCKABEE (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm convinced that the biggest mistake that was made in the Republican primary was that we put the fault in the wrong place.
GUTIERREZ: The Democrats want to keep them.
REP. JAMES E. CLYBURN (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: We interact with him simply because we think when we hear from him, we are hearing the wishes of his constituents.
RODRIGUEZ: And we're going to see the promises of God made a reality in our lives. (END VIDEOTAPE)
GUTIERREZ: What's next for the Reverend? He heads back to Washington, D.C. to talk to key lawmakers about an issue he's passionate about, immigration reform -- John, Kiran.
CHETRY: Thelma Gutierrez for us. Thanks.
CNN's Soledad O'Brien is going to be exploring how Latinos are reshaping our communities and our culture. "Latino in America" premieres this Wednesday and Thursday, 9:00 p.m. Eastern.
ROBERTS: So after a very public airing of the health care debate during all those town halls in August, things have gone behind closed doors again as they try to hammer out the differences in all the bills in the Senate and the House.
But should the whole process be a little more transparent? What about the president's pledge to put all the negotiations on C-Span?
Our Jim Acosta looks more deeply into this. Nine minutes now to the top of the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the most news in the morning. We're 55 minutes past the hour right now. And as you said earlier, we were going to be conducting this interview. We didn't know if our guests would make it and they made it.
ROBERTS: Didn't mean to be slouching out over here. You were taking it away.
CHETRY: You were preparing to listen.
ROBERTS: I was.
CHETRY: There's new outrage this morning over the defiant justice of the peace who refused to marry a white woman and black man in Louisiana. And despite calls for his resignation, the justice himself says he's not going anywhere and he's not sorry and in fact he's done nothing wrong.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEITH BARDWELL, LOUISIANA JUSTICE OF THE PEACE: I have one problem with marrying mixed raced marriages, and that is the offspring.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If someone would ask you, are you racist, what would you say to that?
BARDWELL: Absolutely not. My definition of a racist is to hate black people or treat black people different than anybody else. (END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: All right. Well, the couple at the center of the story, Beth and Terence McKay now married by someone else, join us this morning from Baton Rouge. Thanks, guys. Good to talk to you this morning.
BETH MCKAY, DENIED MARRIAGE LICENSE: Good morning.
TERENCE MCKAY, DENIED MARRIAGE LICENSE: Good morning.
CHETRY: First of all, congratulations, because you're newlyweds. I'm sure you didn't expect that this would be the circumstances surrounding your new wedding and everything, but you finally did get married. What's the latest on what's going on with this justice of the peace that refused to marry you?
T. MCKAY: I have no -- I'm completely still at shock. I'm thankful for the justice of the peace that did marry us. She conducted the ceremony when the Mr. Baldwell?
B. MCKAY: Bardwell.
T. MCKAY: I don't even know his name.
B. MCKAY: I guess he just won't resign, won't stand down, and he won't apologize. So that's his stance right now.
CHETRY: Yes and Beth, you were actually the one who experienced this firsthand, because you spoke to his wife, and you were sort of going through the whole rigmarole. You had to say who you were, when you wanted to go there, what your plans were. And then she asked you, wait a minute, are you an interracial couple? How did that happen?
B. MCKAY: That's exactly how it happened. At the end of the conversation, she said, I have a question to ask you. Is this an interracial marriage? I was shocked, and I said, excuse me? She said, is this an interracial marriage? And I said, yes, ma'am. And she said, what's the deal? Is he black, are you black? And I answered her question, and she just said, well, we don't do interracial marriages. So.
CHETRY: It really is shocking. And you know, the governor of your state, of Louisiana, Bobby Jindal, basically says that this guy's license should be revoked. There have been others who have joined that, Senator Landrieu as well, and I'm sure public opinion, at least from what we've gotten from our e-mails and calls are certainly on your side.
But here's what Mr. Bardwell continues to say. He says, "It's hard to apologize for something that truly and really down in your heart you don't feel you've done anything wrong."
What do you think of the fact that he continues to maintain, Terence, that he did nothing wrong by what he says is just following his heart? T. MCKAY: Yes, I know. Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but he's absolutely wrong on all aspects of his stance. He's saying the only reason he doesn't marry interracial couples is dealing with the -- because of the offspring of the marriages. But if it wasn't for interracial couples today, we wouldn't have our president. So for him to take that outlook, that's still like 1800s or something.
CHETRY: And Beth, what's been the reaction from people in the town, who have, no doubt, heard about this situation?
B. MCKAY: A lot of people have come up to us and said, we're (AUDIO GAP) as well, not just black and white, and just encouraged us to stand up for our rights and speak out against things like this.
CHETRY: And you guys have been together nine months. You've lived in this area for some time. Terence, have you had any other bad experiences feeling that people were judging you because you were together and you happen to be of different races?
T. MCKAY: Not so very obvious. You do have some slight undertones, especially dealing with southern states, but there's nothing that's been so blatantly obvious as this JP. But it was nothing -- this has totally caught us completely off guard, and we're just trying to live our lives.
CHETRY: And I know you said you were going to reach out to the U.S. Justice Department. I know that the National Urban League was going to do the same. Has there been any movement legally in terms of getting Mr. Bardwell's license revoked or anything along those lines?
B. MCKAY: We've retained an attorney and we're in the process of taking the next steps in order to make sure that he loses his job.
CHETRY: All right. Well, keep us posted on how all of this goes. I hope in the midst of all of it, you can enjoy your new wedding and your first year of life together as a married couple. Good luck with all of that and thanks for racing over to get here for our interview. We appreciate it.
B. MCKAY: Thank you. No problem
T. MCKAY: Thank you. You're welcome.
CHETRY: Beth and Terence, best of luck.
ROBERTS: Hopefully they won't let small-mindedness get in the way of the grand picture of their life going forward.
Continue the conversation on today's stories -- go to our blog at cnn.com/amFix.
And that will wrap it up for us. Thanks so much for joining us on this Monday morning. We'll see you again bright and early tomorrow.
CHETRY: Meantime, the news continues at "CNN NEWSROOM" with Heidi Collins.
