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Nancy Grace
Police Charge Hoax in Balloon Boy Incident
Aired October 19, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Live, Colorado, the whole country on pins and needles, a little 6-year-old boy`s life hanging in the balance and a beautiful silver space-like balloon soaring through the clouds. Tonight, it apparently all ends in felony charges.
That`s right, police, sheriffs, National Guard, volunteers, the FAA, even a whole airport and commercial carriers trying to save the life of a 6-year-old boy, Falcon Heene, who his brothers and his parents say was trapped in that homemade balloon racing through the sky. Eyewitness reports emerge that something or someone falls thousands of feet to rough terrain near the Colorado Rocky Mountains.
After 60 miles of terror, the balloon lands. No boy. Was he dead? Was he injured? Was he lying down some ravine with every bone in his body broken? Oh, no! He was hiding in the family attic the whole time, blurting out on national TV it was all, quote, "for the show." On not one but two morning shows, that same child so nervous he vomits when asked the same question. Bye-bye, reality show. Hello, cellblock!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: So it was an experimental plane?
MAYUMI HEENE, MOTHER: Yes, it`s a flying saucer.
911 OPERATOR: It`s a flying saucer?
MAYUMI HEENE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: And that`s gone, too, right?
MAYUMI HEENE: I`m sorry?
911 OPERATOR: How long -- is the flying saucer gone, as well?
MAYUMI HEENE: Yes. About 20 minutes, I think.
911 OPERATOR: It`s been -- they`ve both been missing for about 20 minutes?
MAYUMI HEENE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
MAYUMI HEENE: Oh, my God! Oh, my God! (INAUDIBLE) my son!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It has been determined that this is a hoax, that it was a publicity stunt. We believe that we have evidence at this point to indicate that it was a publicity stunt done with the hopes of marketing themselves, or better marketing themselves for a reality television show at some point in the future.
RICHARD HEENE, FATHER: Did you hear us calling your name at any time?
FALCON HEENE, 6 YEARS OLD: Uh-huh.
RICHARD HEENE: You did?
MAYUMI HEENE: You did?
RICHARD HEENE: Why didn`t you come out?
FALCON HEENE: You guys said that we did this for a show.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, a college football star on scholarship, University of Connecticut, at a college dance, stabbed to death. Who cut this All-American`s life short? Nobody knows? At a college dance packed with students, nobody knows, nobody sees a thing? No way! Tonight, who ended the life of 20-year-old football star Jasper Howard?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A Huskies homecoming dance party turns deadly after an altercation ends in the stabbing death of star cornerback and father-to-be Jasper Howard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just released autopsy results find 20-year-old Jasper Howard died of a single stab wound to the stomach. Just before he was killed, Howard called his mom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I talked to him for a while. That night, I talked to him. And I didn`t see him or talk to him no more!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It happened after a fire alarm went off -- this is at a dance -- on the student center. This happened just after midnight. Hundreds of people ran out into the streets, and then a fight broke out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As far as what the altercation was about, that actually is the subject of continuing investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have not identified a suspect in this case. However, we are pursuing active leads.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just hope whoever did it turns himself in because he didn`t deserve this. He didn`t deserve it!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live, Texas, a 3-year-old little boy in extreme danger, stolen from his own home after the boy`s young mother found murdered on her bedroom floor. Why? You know what? I don`t care why! I just want to know tonight, where is 3-year-old Mitchell Romero?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An Amber Alert has been issued for 3-year-old Richard Romero, whose mother was found murdered inside the family home. Police believe Mitchell is in grave and immediate danger.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just after 6:00, Denver City police arrived to 212 East 10th Street to find 29-year-old Veronica Romero dead inside.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The boy was last seen in the company of his father, Mario Romero, inside a maroon 2004 GMC Yukon with Texas license plates. Romero is also the husband of Mitchell`s mother and murder victim, Veronica Romero.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve been talking to family members on both sides, so it`s just a matter of time before we`re able to talk to him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three of Veronica`s sisters visited with police. A sister back at their home told us 33-year-old Mario Romero had abused Veronica in the past and said it is, quote, "a sure thing that he`s her murderer."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say Romero is considered a person of interest in Veronica`s murder and is wanted for questioning. Authorities in Mexico are also on the lookout as reports surface Romero may be trying to take Mitchell across the border.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Live, Colorado, the whole country on pins and needles, a little 6-year-old boy`s life hanging in the balance and a beautiful silver space- like balloon soaring through the clouds. Tonight, it apparently will all end in felony charges. Bye-bye, reality show. Hello, cellblock!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Is this Richard?
RICHARD HEENE: Yes, it is.
911 OPERATOR: OK, how long has the 6-year-old been missing?
RICHARD HEENE: Just a few minutes.
911 OPERATOR: Was the flying saucer in the back yard?
RICHARD HEENE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK. So it obviously has electronics, which he can know how to work it, he gets it up off the air, off the ground?
RICHARD HEENE: No, he doesn`t know how they operate.
911 OPERATOR: He does not know how to operate. So and that`s gone, though, too, right? You`re sure that he`s in that?
RICHARD HEENE: Yes, we -- we looked everywhere, and then my son just said -- he`s terrified, and he said, yes, he went inside just before it went off because we had it tethered. It wasn`t supposed to take off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These people are actors. The way that they met and established a relationship was in acting school in Hollywood. So needless to say, they put on a very good show for us and we bought it.
RICHARD HEENE: Absolutely no hoax. I want your questions in the box. I`ll get right back to you, OK?
One of the guys told me it was for some TV show. So that`s what he was referring to -- that`s what he was referring to when he made that statement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I know -- I want to point out that the sheriff`s office said last night that they believe your account of what happened, but they do want to question you a little bit more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Dan Simon, CNN national correspondent joining us from the Heene home. Dan, thank you for being with us. What`s the latest, Dan?
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you that Richard Heene is doing something he doesn`t normally do, Nancy, and that is he`s keeping a low profile today. We saw him emerge from the house once with his entire family, got into a pick-up truck, apparently drove to a grocery store. He`s back in his home tonight, not making any statements, probably on the advice of his attorney.
In terms of how this all came to light, what we are hearing from authorities is that they wanted to bring Richard Heene in for questioning, and they did so -- used a little bit of trickery. They told him, Why don`t you come to the sheriff`s station and we`ll give you what`s rest of your silver balloon? So Heene drives over there by himself, thinks he`s going to pick up that balloon. Well, lo and behold, the cops start questioning him, and from what we understand, they administered a polygraph. We don`t know the results of that polygraph. But in any case, they questioned Heene.
Meanwhile, there are investigators who come over to the house behind me and questioned the rest of the family. They question the wife and they question the children. And at that point, after all the questioning is over, authorities were convinced that it was absolutely a hoax -- Nancy.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Joining us there at the scene, Fort Collins, Colorado, CNN`s national correspondent Dan Simon.
To Peter Marcus, assistant editor of "The Denver Daily News." Peter, thank you for being with us. Peter, take me back to the very beginning. What happened?
PETER MARCUS, "DENVER DAILY NEWS" (via telephone): Well, you know, the whole world was held captive. We thought that little Falcon was flying across the Colorado skies in a flying saucer balloon. And then this weekend, you know, we hear from the sheriff`s department that they`re saying this whole thing was a hoax.
GRACE: I want to go to Clark Goldband, our producer on the story. I mean, a lot of people took a look at this thing and were convinced nobody could actually be inside of it. Where was the boy the whole time?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, law enforcement investigators actually decided they wanted to contact aerospace engineers who used to work for the U.S. armed services to determine whether it could actually hold the 36-pound boy, Falcon.
Now, at first law enforcement searched that house at the very outset and did not find Falcon. They admitted a few hours later, Maybe we didn`t search that home as thoroughly as we should have. It turned out later that Falcon was then believed to be up in the crawlspace or the attic at that whole time. However, since then, the sheriff of Larimer County has said it`s not clear. Falcon could have been somewhere else and then come back himself to the home.
GRACE: OK. Dan Simon, back to you, joining us at the Heene home. Dan, how did the whole thing crack wide open?
SIMON: Well, you know, there was that interview last Thursday on "LARRY KING LIVE." Wolf Blitzer was hosting. And there was that question by the father, Richard Heene, to his son, said, Hey, when you were up in the attic, did you hear us calling your name? And the boy says, yes. And he said, Why didn`t you come out? And he says, Well, we did it for the show.
Well, everybody saw that, and it immediately raised suspicions both on the part of law enforcement, everybody who, of course, was watching this. So authorities grew suspicious. They wanted to question the Heenes. And they also put up a public front supporting the Heenes, and they said they did that because they wanted to continue to have their trust.
So over the weekend, they brought in the Heenes for questioning. They brought Richard in to the sheriff`s station. They administered -- apparently administered a polygraph at that time. And then investigators came to the house, did another line of questioning. And we don`t know if there was a confession or whatever was said, but all we know is after those interviews took place, authorities came out and said it was a hoax.
GRACE: Let`s take a listen to what happened on national TV.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD HEENE: Did you hear us calling your name at any time?
FALCON HEENE: Uh-huh.
RICHARD HEENE: You did?
MAYUMI HEENE: You did?
RICHARD HEENE: Then why didn`t you come out?
FALCON HEENE: You guys said that we did this for a show.
One of the guys told me it was for some TV show. So that`s what he was referring to.
MAYUMI HEENE: Oh!
RICHARD HEENE: That`s what he was referring to when he made that statement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I know -- I want to point out that the sheriff`s office said last night that they believe your account of what happened, but they do want to question you a little bit more...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Falcon? Are you OK there?
FALCON HEENE: Uh-huh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You sure?
RICHARD HEENE: He`s (INAUDIBLE) tired.
FALCON HEENE: No, Mom, I feel like I`m going to vomit.
MAYUMI HEENE: Oh!
RICHARD HEENE: Are you OK, buddy?
FALCON HEENE: No.
RICHARD HEENE: Yes, he`s -- I think he`s queasy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The child so sick when he`s asked that same question after his appearance being interviewed by Wolf Blitzer on CNN, he vomits on national TV.
Unleash the lawyers, Sue Moss, Alex Sanchez, Anne Bremner. Anne Bremner, high-profile lawyer joining us out of Seattle, what`s your defense of parents that apparently put their child on the air? He blurts out, We did it for a show, on CNN. Then when he`s asked that question again, he`s so upset, he vomits on national TV, on "Today" and ABC.
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, Nancy, I knew you were going to ask me that. I mean, it`s a terrible situation, but nobody died. You know, it was a hoax...
GRACE: Please answer the question.
BREMNER: Well, my defense is, is that we`ve got to see all the facts in the thing. And you know, life doesn`t imitate art, it imitates bad TV.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: He has no idea how to turn it or anything, is that right? No instruction has been given to him?
RICHARD HEENE: No. No. There`s no way to turn it, no.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And he has no idea how to land it or anything, right?
RICHARD HEENE: No. No.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
RICHARD HEENE: And there`s no communication. I mean, it was just supposed to be in the back yard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Felony charges may be filed against Richard and Mayumi Heene. This is for claiming their 6-year-old son was on board a homemade mylar balloon when it floated away from their back yard Thursday afternoon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It wasn`t until the Larry King show, where the family was interviewed by Wolf Blitzer, that we had the first "A-ha" moment.
RICHARD HEENE: Did you hear us calling your name at any time?
FALCON HEENE: Uh-huh.
RICHARD HEENE: You did?
MAYUMI HEENE: You did?
RICHARD HEENE: Then why didn`t you come out?
FALCON HEENE: You guys said that we did this for a show.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Wolf talked to the father and the father was asking him, you saw the one little boy look at the mommy, like, Uh-oh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The fact that he would want his child to lie for him, that he`d -- that`s the lesson he`s teaching his child, lie to get whatever you want in life. That`s the damage here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are my clients, so I`ve heard a lot from them. And obviously, this is something the public rolls their eyes at, unfortunately, but the presumption of innocence should be given to them.
911 OPERATOR: So it was an experimental plane?
MAYUMI HEENE: Yes. It`s a flying saucer.
911 OPERATOR: It`s a flying saucer?
MAYUMI HEENE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: And that`s gone, too, right?
MAYUMI HEENE: I`m sorry?
911 OPERATOR: How long -- is the flying saucer gone, as well?
MAYUMI HEENE: Yes. About 20 minutes, I think.
911 OPERATOR: It`s been -- they`ve both been missing for about 20 minutes?
MAYUMI HEENE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
MAYUMI HEENE: Oh, my God! Oh, my God! (INAUDIBLE) my son!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Oh, my God, oh, my God, my son. If she lied to 911 about the life of her son! Susan Moss, Alex Sanchez, Anne Bremner. Susan Moss, what charges could they be facing?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Oh, absolutely, filing a false police report, also endangering a child and others. Their parental rights might go up, up and away for at least the time that they`ll be in jail, which could be a maximum of 13 years based on the felonies they could be charged with.
GRACE: Sanchez?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, it`s incredible. It`s like the whole world has this couple convicted already. And based upon the information that I have seen and read, I don`t see enough evidence at all which would justify an arrest at this point. Now, maybe the police have some information we`re not aware of. But based upon what I have heard, there is simply -- this case is based on speculation, on theory, and on suspicion. But you come into court with evidence...
GRACE: Really? Well, let me just refresh your recollection, Alex. To you, Peter Marcus with "The Denver Daily News." What can you tell me about reported communications between a research assistant or a prior employee with Mr. Heene many, many weeks before, regarding a stunt like this?
MARCUS: Yes, well, I think that was obviously the big twist to come out of this today, is that Gawker.com, this Web site -- they say they purchased this story from a Robert Thomas. He`s a 25-year-old researcher who was working with definitely Richard Heene on developing some sort of science-based reality television show. And in their conversations, Richard had mentioned that he could establish some sort of a publicity stunt on the level of Roswell. He`s a bit of a UFO guy. And that, you know, could create quite a buzz, quite a stir for the reality show that they had been developing.
GRACE: Right. And to Dan Simon. How long before this stunt actually occurred were these communications?
SIMON: Communications between who, Nancy?
GRACE: Between the employee and Mr. Heene.
SIMON: You know, I`m really not sure how long they were talking. But you know, one of the things that I think is absolutely fascinating that we heard today is that this balloon -- everybody has seen it -- when you take a 37-pound boy -- they had a physics professor come in and take a look at it. They said there is absolutely no way it could have even lifted off the ground. So that`s another compelling element to this bizarre case.
GRACE: As it turns out, those conversations about this stunt took place last March. That`s how long this has allegedly been in the planning.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: It was last seen 20 minutes ago?
RICHARD HEENE: Probably. I`m losing track of time. Probably -- yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK. So there`s no electronics on it. There`s no tracking device, right?
RICHARD HEENE: No. No. I don`t know whether it`s possible you guys could detect the electricity that it emits. But every five minutes, it comes on for one minute and it emits a million volts on the outer skin.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
RICHARD HEENE: And if he takes a ride in it, he could get electrocuted!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to special guest joining us, Mary Schiavo, former U.S. Department of Transportation inspector general, also an aviation attorney. Marry, thank you for being with us. I mean, the police, the sheriffs, the National Guard, volunteers, the FAA, the airport closed down, the commercial carriers, everybody cooperated to try to find this boy and save his life. The whole time, the family allegedly did this as a stunt.
MARY SCHIAVO, FMR. U.S. DEPT. OF TRANSPORTATION INSPECTOR GENERAL (via telephone): That`s right. And the FAA certainly will have something to say about it. It`s not surprising that they have joined the investigation. And there are a number of things they will charge. But usually, they can only do a civil penalty, a fine, things like operating an aircraft without an air-worthiness certificate, violating commercial airspace and constructing this aircraft without a proper license. So there are many charges that they could bring against them. It will pale compared to the felony charges.
GRACE: To Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist. The boy is vomiting on national TV when pushed on these questions. Do you think he was asked to lie? And what does this mean about their custody?
LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I can`t say for sure he was asked to lie, but he`s certainly under stress. Custody is a question. I think it`s scandalous what they`re doing to this little boy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: He has no idea how to turn it or anything, is that right? No instruction has been given to him?
RICHARD HEENE: No, no. There`s no way to turn it, no.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And he has no idea how to land it or anything, right?
RICHARD HEENE: No. No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: University of Connecticut is mourning a star football player, soon to be dad.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It all started around 12:30 Sunday morning when someone pulled a fire alarm in the U, forcing the crowd of more than 300 people, UConn students and others, outside. UConn police tell me that`s when a fight started between the two groups and 20-year-old Howard and one other were stabbed multiple times.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the victims who was stabbed has actually died. Jasper Howard of -- a UConn student. The suspect remained at large.
JOANGELA HOWARD, MOTHER OF 20-YEAR-OLD FOOTBALL STAR STABBED TO DEATH: It was an altercation. He got stabbed in his stomach. He had -- went through surgery. 4:00 I called. The doctor told me he didn`t make it.
I was here at home watching the game. I watched the whole game. After the game he called me and was very excite d. I talked to him for a while. That night I talked to him, and I ain`t seen him or talked to him no more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Al Jones with 1010 WINS, joining us at UConn campus.
Al Jones, I don`t understand how at a college dance -- I mean, certainly you`ve been to a college dance before. At a college dance a fight breaks out. The place is packed with witnesses. A star student, scrubbed in sunshine, a good kid, gets stabbed to death. And nobody sees a thing? I don`t believe that.
AL JONES, REPORTER, 1010 WINS, ON SCENE WHERE 20-YR-OLD STAR STABBED: Well, there are some witnesses. They have talked to a number of students who were there. They also have another football player by the name of Brian Parker who was actually there and has helped them identify at least one person involved in the fight.
That person was arraigned earlier today on charges of breach of peace and obstruction of justice. Not charged in the stabbing, mind you, but held on $100,000 bail.
They`re also asking for other students to come forward. And of course there are security cameras around campus. It`s just a matter of did they manage to catch some of the action on tape?
GRACE: To Marlaina Schiavo, our reporter, our producer, there also at UConn campus.
Marlaina, let me get something straight. Has an eyewitness told police who did the stabbing?
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Police have not said that any eyewitnesses have told them who did the stabbing. However, Nancy, police have indicated they may know who this person is because they said they don`t think it`s a UConn student. Now, how would they know that? They obviously have someone in mind that doesn`t go to UConn but, you know, might be a part of this.
GRACE: Marlaina, what do we know about this young man?
SCHIAVO: We know, Nancy, that he comes from Miami. He was on a full athletic scholarship. He was a star football player. He won this huge game that day, and he was at the dance that night. And we know that he came -- his mother says he came from Miami, you know, to get away from the violence. And unfortunately, that didn`t happen the other night, obviously.
So we also know that he was a father-to-be. His girlfriend is pregnant. She`s here right now along with his mother. And that`s what we know right now, Nancy.
GRACE: Take a listen to what police had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a dance, a scheduled and sponsored dance that was occurring at the student union. And at 12:26, while the dance was going on, someone pulled the -- a fire alarm pull station, which evacuated the dance out onto the street.
There were approximately in the neighborhood of 300-plus people who were attending the dance. And they were in the street. An altercation occurred and concluded with the stabbing of two individuals.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My thought and prayers go out to his mother because, as many of you know, the background where he grew up through young childhood through high school, to not only live through it but get through it and be able to get a chance to get out of there was a miracle in itself.
And the idea of him coming all the way up to Connecticut, where his mother thought he was safe, that he would grow up into a better man and come back and support his family like he was planning on doing, is heartbroken.
HOWARD: I just hope whoever did it turn themselves in because he didn`t deserve this. He didn`t deserve it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Marlaina Schiavo, our producer there at UConn campus. What more can you tell me, Marlaina?
SCHIAVO: Well, I can tell you right now that there`s obviously still a killer on the loose, Nancy, because you know, no one is in custody for this crime right now. What we also know is that Jasper died with -- the cause of death was one stab wound to the abdomen and obviously the manner of death is homicide.
So we have no idea who did this, but cops are eager to find out more information, Nancy.
GRACE: OK. Marlaina, I want to clear something up. First you told me that they think they know who did it. Because that`s not the impression I had at all. So if you would be so kind to clear up for me what exactly the status is, Marlaina, because you`ve given me two completely different answers.
And it`s my understanding that witnesses are not naming a killer. And they were all right there. Do we have a composite? Do we have a name? Is anybody giving it up?
SCHIAVO: No. Not at all, Nancy. That`s what I said no witnesses have given up a name. The only thing police have told us is that they are pretty sure it wasn`t a UConn student. So they`ve narrowed it down to that aspect. But no, there are no names flying around. There`s been no witness that have -- not one witness has come forward to say this is who did it. No.
GRACE: Out to the lines, P.J. -- P.J. in Massachusetts. Hi, P.J.
P.J., CALLER FROM MASSACHUSETTS: Good evening, Nancy. Bless you and your family and your beautiful twins.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you.
P.J. My daughter`s twins just turned 3. And she`s my only child. I`m just baffled that there is absolutely nobody that would come forward. How in the world can someone not come forward when there`s all his so- called close buddies there with him? They had.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. I agree. Susan Moss, Alex Sanchez, Anne Bremner. To you, Bremner. It`s just like when Tupac Shakur was killed. He was killed on the street on the Vegas strip.
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
GRACE: Which has got thousands of people on it 24/7, 365. And nobody saw a thing. Nobody can name who did it. No matter how much it was investigated. Same thing here. Nobody knows anything. Nobody can give a name. Nobody can give a good identification.
That is B.S. And think about it. Think about it, Anne. When I go home to those twins tonight, my prayer is that I live to get them through school, to get them into college. Here is this young man, he`s making it. He`s on a scholarship. He`s finally making it. And then this happens. Did you see his mother.
BREMNER: Oh, my gosh.
GRACE: . crying? There`s a baby on the way. The mother, the baby, and nobody will talk. I tell you what, if one of those witnesses were your client, Anne Bremner, all hell would break loose if I was on that prosecution team. Let me tell you.
BREMNER: And that`s the thing, Nancy. You`re so right. I`ve seen it in cases since I was a baby prosecutor. Hundreds of witnesses and none of them saw a thing. Homicide right in front of them. That horrible, horrible dynamic in these kinds of cases.
And hopefully, someone`s watching your show right now, Nancy, and sees and will come forward because somebody saw something. He was stabbed to death.
GRACE: And to you, Dr. Perper, how could one stab wound inflict so much damage?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, MEDICAL EXAMINER, AUTHOR OF "WHEN TO CALL THE DOCTOR": Because the stab wound to the abdomen can go upwards and can hit the heart or major blood vessels such as the aorta or the major veins, which are the vena cava. So one single stab wound which is deep enough and directed to the proper direction is going to cause death.
GRACE: I mean, look at him, Doctor. Look at this video of him. He`s young. He`s athletic. He`s giving 200 percent. He`s out there slugging it out on the field. He`s attending classes. And this. To be stabbed to death at a dance.
Everybody, we are taking your calls. I want to give you the tip line. 860-486-4800. Tonight, a mother`s heart is broken. We are taking your calls.
To tonight`s safety tip. One in every four women will experience domestic violence. It often begins with threats, name calling. It escalates to physical violence, beating, sex assault, even murder. If you are in immediate danger, obviously call 911, but secondary, get guidance from any battered women`s hotline in your area or 800. Once you decide to leave, get a plan. Especially if you have children.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I promise you, not only will he live on through his child`s life but he`ll always live on through this team`s heart and mine, forever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At least two of our guys when this took place, one had Jasper in his arms and the other was pressuring the -- where the wound went in, and, you know, had blood, you know, on his hands. And those two young men I know are, you know, pretty deeply affected, you know, right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At about 12:33 a.m. UConn police on general patrol were notified of a stabbing that had just occurred just off hillside road in the area of the student union. The police officer investigating quickly determined that there were two stabbing victims in close proximity to each other.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Howard and another student were stabbed, and Howard died. No suspect has been named.
HOWARD: There was an altercation. He got stabbed in the stomach. He had went through surgery. 4:00 I called. The doctor told me he didn`t make it.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Both stabbing victims were taken to area hospitals, one treated and released. Howard was pronounced dead hours after the incident at St. Francis hospital in Hartford, where his coach, Randy Edsall, stood watch all night.
A campus-wide alert was issued early Sunday, and UConn PD have stepped up their patrols around campus in the wake of the incident. They`re working with state police on the investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back to Dr. Joshua Perper. Doctor, you were explaining how one stab wound could cause so much, so much damage?
PERPER: Well, if a stab wound is applied to the upper portion of the abdomen, there is a possibility that the track of the wound is going to be directed toward the heart. So the person may have a stab wound of the heart which may be fatal.
In the same way, one of the major arteries of the body, the aorta, can be cut. So this would explain why the death occurred so fast and they were not able to assist the person, because apparently there was medical assistance, or assistance given very early after the incident occurred.
GRACE: To Sergeant Scott Haines, sheriff`s officer, Santa Rosa County, Florida. What do you make of the fact that no one is coming forward with a name or really even a description of the killer?
SGT. SCOTT HAINES, SHERIFF`S OFFICER, SANTA ROSA COUNTY, FL.: In a situation like that, there was a fire alarm that was pulled, there was a lot of chaos going on and a lot of people were outside, so there were a lot of distractions. Some people may not have been focusing their attention to something like that.
And unfortunately, in stabbing situations there`s no noise, there`s no gunshots. So there may be people that weren`t aware that this actually went on due to their attention being diverted to other places. So that does make it more difficult. There`s obviously some people that were right there that know what happened, and hopefully they will come forward and do the right thing and talk about it.
GRACE: Sergeant, I`m sorry. Someone was speaking in my ear. Could you repeat that again? I`m sorry. I couldn`t hear you.
HAINES: Sure. The fire alarm that was pulled, that type of diversion, there was obviously probably some chaos from that. The mass exodus from the building. And a large amount of people. And with a stabbing situation there`s no gunshot, it`s a very quiet crime, the people who are in the immediate area may have known what went on, but this person, if he was taken by surprise, he probably didn`t even realize what happened right away.
So some people may not even have realized that they witnessed a stabbing until they hear about this on the news and maybe they`ll start coming forward. But there was a lot of things that were taking people`s attention into other directions at the time.
GRACE: I want to go to Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, joining us out of New York. Dr. Austin, why is nobody coming forward?
DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, in fact, people may not have seen it, or they may be frightened. We don`t know who did this. We don`t know who their friends were. We need to let the police do their work and get a lot more details. Somebody will say something somewhere soon enough, and they`ll find their man.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Cindy, Ohio. Hi, dear. What`s your question?
CINDY, CALLER FROM OHIO: Hi, Nancy. My husband, Mark, and I don`t miss a show.
GRACE: Thank you.
CINDY: I have a two-part question if I could.
GRACE: OK.
CINDY: Is the college dances like the high school dances and you must attend there to go to the dance?
GRACE: I can tell you that right now. No. Because there were non- students and college students there. Go ahead.
CINDY: OK. And the second part is was the fire alarm pulled to get everybody outside so this could happen? Is that what they`re thinking?
GRACE: Good question. Al Jones with 1010 WINS joining us there at UConn campus.
Al, what do we know about the fire alarm being pulled?
JONES: We know the alarm was pulled at 12:26. And as the sheriff`s deputy said, you had a lot of confusion, people leaving from three different exits. So you might had 300 people coming out but not all to one collective place. I talked to one student who said there were a number of people arguing, pushing and shoving.
And if you think about it, Nancy, if you shove somebody or if you stab somebody it`s almost the same motion in the dark. So the fact that nobody actually saw the stabbing or at least have not told police about it really is not that surprising.
GRACE: Al? I`ve investigated many, many, many homicides. More than I can even count. And I find it very, very difficult to believe that nobody in a packed dance at college saw who took a knife and stabbed this young man to death. I don`t believe nobody saw anything, and I find it very hard to believe that no one is coming forward.
To Theresa in Michigan, hi, dear, what`s your question?
THERESA, CALLER FROM MICHIGAN: Hi, Nancy. I`m a big fan of your show. Thanks for taking my call.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you for calling in.
THERESA: I was wondering about that fire alarm pulled, too. Did they have a camera on the person that pulled the fire alarm.
GRACE: Good question.
THERESA: .because it almost sounds like a setup to get him outside.
GRACE: Al, what.
THERESA: Where it`s chaotic.
GRACE: Yes. You know what? Theresa, I wondered the same thing. Back when Annie Le was murdered, remember, at Yale? The police kept saying there was no connection between the fire alarm and the murder. B.S.
Now, here, with so many people there, I think it`s more possible it wasn`t connected. But Al, didn`t you say that there was surveillance video?
JONES: Well, there are surveillance cameras. Police will only say "numerous" around campus, they won`t give us a set number. Now whether there were any cameras actually trained on that one spot, if they have any video, they have not shared that information with us.
GRACE: Good. Al, joining us from 1010.
Very quickly, everyone, I want to tell you about a 3-year-old boy missing, his mom dead. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police are desperate to find a missing 3-year- old boy believed to be in immediate and grave danger. An Amber Alert was issued for Mitchell Romero after his mother Veronica Romero was found murdered inside her own home.
Police say Mitchell was last seen with his father, Mario Romero, in a maroon 2004 GMC Yukon with Texas license plates.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Michael Board, WOIA Newsradio. Michael, what happened?
MICHAEL BOARD, REPORTER, WOAI NEWSRADIO (via phone): Well, Nancy, to bring you up on the latest, Veronica Romero was laid to rest today in the tiny Texas town of Denver City. This is a city of only about 4,000 people. I talked to one longtime city worker today. They said it`s been at least a decade since there`s been a murder in this city.
Her husband, who very well mass murdered her in full blood, still on the run, apparently has their 3-year-old child with him. Police very eager to speak with him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thursday night, just after 6:00, Denver City police arrived to 212 East 10th Street to find 29-year-old Veronica Romero dead inside. First the start of a murder investigation. Then the search for the woman`s missing 3-year-old boy. The man police want, Romero`s husband, Mario, the father of little Mitchell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back to Michael Board with WOIA. Michael, you`ll have to excuse me. I`ve gotten a horrible cold from my son.
Michael, the mother is found dead in her bedroom floor by whom?
BOARD: By her sister. And she very well may have been dead a couple of days before her sister found her there on her bedroom floor.
GRACE: Michael, that is the most significant part of the puzzle to me, that this guy has apparently gotten several days head start on police.
BOARD: And very easily, he could have slipped already across the border to Mexico. That`s what police are thinking right now. The drive from Denver City, Texas, to El Paso is about four hours. Very easy to do. The Juarez border passing in El Paso is probably the busiest in the whole nation.
There are literally thousands of people streaming back and forth all day, very easy to blend into that crowd, Nancy.
GRACE: Sheeba, Illinois, I`ve got 45 seconds left, dear. What`s your question? And hello.
SHEEBA, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: OK. You`re fixing to go through the terrible 2`s, darling.
GRACE: I`m ready.
SHEEBA: Good luck. OK. My question is, when was the last time the father was seen in that vicinity?
GRACE: Good question. Michael board, what do we know?
BOARD: The last time he was seen was last week some time. They don`t know if he was with that child. They lived together in the same house. How do we know that? Because earlier this year, he pled guilty to beating her up in that home.
This is a scumbag who`s capable of doing anything to people who make him mad. Nancy, Lord only knows what he`s going to do with this child when this child starts crying and asking where his mommy is. That`s why we need to find this guy as soon as possible.
GRACE: Tip line, 806-592-3516. Please help us find this little boy in so much danger.
Let`s stop and remember Army National Guard Sergeant Jeremiah Holmes, 27, North Berwick, Maine, killed, Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart. Loved riding his Harley, swimming, playing horseshoes and building.
Lost his mom at 13 to murder. Did not live to see his mom`s killer brought to justice. Leaves behind grieving grandmother Vivian, four siblings, widow, best friend Kimberly, 6-year-old son, Caleb.
Jeremiah Holmes, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp, Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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