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Joe Arpaio Takes on Federal Government; Former Government Scientist Accused of Espionage; 'Latino in America': Breaking Down Stereotypes

Aired October 20, 2009 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Coming at you now, the waitress/girlfriend, the football superstar. Text messages reveal the lovers' final hours.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The statements of late that the Chamber has made in regard to climate science are frankly embarrassing.

SANCHEZ: A serious issue, but a phony news conference.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This gentleman, I will assure you, does not have any business cards and he's not legitimate.

SANCHEZ: Guerrilla marketers take on the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. Should any of us listen after they pull a stunt like this?

An expert on planets, he reported to NASA, a president. And authorities now say he was willing to sell secrets to the Israelis.

This certainly sounds like a dare.

JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA, SHERIFF: No, they don't tell me how to do my job enforcing state laws. Come on after me if he thinks I'm violating any of the federal laws.

SANCHEZ: We hear you sheriff, but does the Department of Homeland Security hear you? Will the roundup of illegal immigrants continue in Arizona?

Your national conversation for Tuesday, October 20, starts right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Glad you're here. Welcome back, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez with the next generation of news. This is a conversation; it's not a speech and as always it's your turn to get involved.

All right, get ready for those what were they thinking moments. You see that guy right there? Zoom in on his face if you possibly can. He kind of looks like a science guy, right? Well, you are correct. In fact he's one of the most respected space researchers in the world. Stewart David Nozette his name. He invented some kind of a lunar gizmo that's helping NASA investigate whether there's water on the moon. Pretty significant, right? Well, today, he needs to invent something that will get him out of major hot water that may not be on the moon.

Nozette is locked up. He's facing charges, charges that he's a spy and tried to sell classified U.S. material to of all places the Israelis.

Peter Earnest is the perfect guest for this segment, because he was a spy who now runs the International Spy Museum in Washington.

Peter thanks so much for being with us.

PETER EARNEST, FORMER CIA OPERATIVE: Thank you very much for asking me.

SANCHEZ: A lot of people have been e-mailing me on the social media like Twitter and MySpace, people have been asking me, well, what's Israeli's relationship here? Why aren't you talking about that?

And it's interesting. First of all, let's start with this. Should Americans be surprised that allies, like the U.S. and the British, the British and the U.S., the U.S. and the Israelis, Israelis, vice versa, spy on each other?

EARNEST: Well, look, there have been agreements for some time between some countries that they don't spy on one another. And, so, I think we would be shocked if certain countries were caught spying on us.

On the other hand, there are a number of countries prime who from time to time have spied on us that also shocked us. I think the case of Jonathan Pollard was one of those and he was spying for Israel.

SANCHEZ: Well, but you know what is interesting in this case, it looks to me like Israel probably -- and we don't have all the information, but we do know this. This fellow Nozette was set up the FBI. It was a legitimate sting.

They basically want him to go to a drop box and give him information and they were going to give him money; they set up meetings; he bought into it. So, the courts will decide whether he's guilty or innocent.

But how did the FBI know that this guy was out there looking for a market? It wouldn't surprise me, and I bet you it wouldn't surprise you if he first really went to the Israelis and the Israelis called the U.S. and said, hey, we got this guy who's trying to sell us stuff; you better look into it, right?

(CROSSTALK)

EARNEST: Well, that's -- you can speculate on that, but obviously the FBI had something to go on when they made that phone call. I mean, they didn't call you this morning and they didn't call me, right?

SANCHEZ: Yes.

But they didn't pick this guy out of the blue. They didn't take -- it wasn't like, let's look at a hat and who's been spying on Israel lately.

EARNEST: Well, look, I think there's a backstory here. We don't know what led the FBI to make that phone call on September 3.

We do know that at one point Nozette had a company in which he was selling technical information to another company, which we now know he believed to be an Israeli company. He actually felt it was front for the Mossad.

Now we have this latest thing. We don't know what led the FBI to make that. I think there's a backstory here. Either they got a tip or a lead. What you're speculating would be a tip -- or a lead or for some other reason they made that call.

SANCHEZ: You have the Spy Museum, which, by the way, I have been reading a lot of reviews that say it's a fascinating place.

EARNEST: Good.

SANCHEZ: As I read this story, I thought about your museum, because they talked about surreptitious meetings and meeting in hotel lobbies and drop boxes and special hidden compartments in places how they would carry this out.

As I was reading it, I was thinking how can this guy buy into all this stuff? But in actuality, this is the way that is done, correct?

EARNEST: Well, yes, in a manner of speaking. Now, if you read those excerpts that are in the affidavit supporting the complaint...

SANCHEZ: Right.

EARNEST: ... that sounds like it was one, two, three, thank you, ma'am. It was very, very quick.

And we have to keep in mind, this is a man who is a brilliant -- he is described as a brilliant scientist. That doesn't mean he has a clue about dealing in the world of intelligence or espionage or anything like that.

It looks like he simply almost at the request of the person purporting to be an Israeli officer agreed to provide information, agreed to engage in regular sessions of debriefing, asked for money, asked for a passport. It was all pretty quick.

SANCHEZ: Let me ask you one more question I think Americans at home are watching this conversation and wondering about themselves. I always think when somebody is captured. They got this guy, right? And it looked pretty typical of a case that they're making against an alleged spy. How many of these guys are out there? How often does this happen? How much of this actually goes on in the United States and around the world?

EARNEST: Look, we make the statement in the museum, there are more spies in this town than anywhere else in the world.

It was only a month ago that you had Mr. and Mrs. Myers in the State Department revealed to have been spying for Cuba for 20 years.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

EARNEST: Now, it looks like there's a difference here. It looks like they did that at least at this point for purely ideological reasons. For one reason or another, and it sounds dumb, they were very enamored of Fidel Castro and Cuba.

In this case, it sounds like there's a measure ideological persuasion here...

SANCHEZ: Money. Money.

EARNEST: ... but also the money.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

EARNEST: And the other thing we don't know, and you and I...

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: They pay pretty well, by the way? I'm curious, not that I'm interested in the business, but can you make pretty good dough selling this kind of stuff to these countries?

EARNEST: Well, look, if you have access to top-secret highly sensitive information, yes, you can make money, and you have to risk precisely what he's risking, which is being thrown in the slammer for the rest of his life.

The other thing we don't know and we haven't even talked about is the so-called country A. Who else did he volunteer to spy for? Where else did he go?

SANCHEZ: That's a good point, because sometimes it's your enemies that can do you the most damage. And we don't know in this case if any of them were involved.

It's been a pleasure talking to you, a real honest-to-goodness spy.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: I appreciate your time.

EARNEST: Glad to come in.

SANCHEZ: All right.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who are you really, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And do you have a business card? Are you with the U.S. Chamber?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I -- I do. We can discuss afterwards.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I see your business card?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I see yours?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you here representing the U.S. Chamber of Commerce?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: This is not an "SNL" skit. It's not a Fellini movie. This is the real thing, folks. These folks posed as the Chamber of Commerce, who's strikingly conservative on the issue of global warming, as you probably know, even held a news conference to announce a major policy shift on climate change.

Can you say duped? I'm talking about news organizations. I'm talking about the whole process. And we're going to take you through it. We're going to show you the video. We're going to show you the confrontations and show you the reaction in the news media. You're going to like it.

And next -- next, text messages that reveal the state of mind of the woman accused of killing NFL player Steve McNair and then turning the gun on herself. The last texts between these two are remarkable. You will see them for yourselves.

And remember the after-show. We do it at 4:00 right here. Stay with us. I'm Rick Sanchez and we're coming right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: We're talking about a story that we're going to have coming up in just a little bit. Let's look at this tweet real quick.

It says: "Hi, Rick. I think it's great that one can dupe the media. The media dupes the public all the time. Your thoughts?"

I will save them. Thank you for the invitation, though.

We're getting a clearer image into the final hours of NFL superstar Steve McNair's double life. A 14-page case summary of their investigation has been released. And it includes text messages sent almost up to the last moment where McNair was shot and killed by his girlfriend.

Now, this -- look, this gets bizarre, as many of you probably know, because McNair was married with children, but he also had not one, but two girlfriends. And one of those girlfriends, Sahel Kazemi, shot and killed him in his sleep. According to police, she then killed herself.

But she was obviously very troubled at the time. She seemed to be indicating to friends that her life was just spiraling out of control, and she wasn't getting enough of him, which is reflected in the following text messages.

She says or writes: "Baby, I need to pay the cell phone bills in the hospital. Can you transfer $2,000 to my account?"

Then minutes later, she said that she may need to go to the hospital because she can hardly breathe, she was so troubled. It appears she wanted to get him to come to her apartment. And here's how she did it. These are the actual text messages. And I'm going to take you through these.

At 4:40 p.m.: "Baby, I have to be with you tonight. I don't care where."

McNair says at 8:50: "I'm at home, baby. What time you get off?"

McNair says: "At home until the kids fall asleep," like he's at the house, he's telling her.

Kazemi then says: "Do you want to get out and drink?"

McNair at 10:45 responds: "Probably not. Having trouble with the kids getting to sleep."

Now, I should mention something here, just to be fair. I should mention here that several witnesses tell police that McNair was at a nightclub about the same time that he was sending that text message, where he appeared to be lying about being at home with his kids.

Let's go on. Moving forward, Kazemi at 11:28: "They asleep, babe?"

McNair: "They're on the way." McNair: "I'm on my way."

Kazemi, "K." Kazemi: "You want me to open the gate?"

McNair sent twice: "No. Open the front door."

Kazemi: "It's open."

And now this crazy love triangle. Another Nashville woman who alleges that she was also having an affair with McNair claims that she was being followed by a black Escalade. McNair, according to all sources, bought that car for Kazemi.

But reports indicate that McNair was growing tired of Kazemi, calling his house all hours of the day. By the way, Kazemi's exact reason for killing him, for shooting him so many times? The exact reason, she apparently took to her grave.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: All the troops in the world will not solve a problem without a partner, a credible partner, without credible partners. Now up to the Afghans to make this legitimate, truly legitimate, legitimate, legitimate, legitimate in the eyes of the Afghan people. Ultimately be seen as legitimate, seen as legitimate, legitimate by the Afghan people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: This is important to Americans. The U.S. will not send more troops to Afghanistan, not until Afghanistan gets its act together. And guess what? Afghanistan is trying to do that with another election. We have got the details on this. And I'm going to bring them to you in just a little bit.

Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back.

I'm glad to see that so many of you are so engaged in the newscast that we have been having lately, especially on the issue of Arpaio. I will be reading some of those tweets that you have been sending me in just a little bit.

Boy, there's still a lot of fervor, still a lot of hostility about this issue.

Let's move on. There is going to be a do-over in Afghanistan. Otherwise, forget about us sending more troops. We're talking about the presidential election. And this is newsworthy because we're talking about the political climate that our military members are living in now in Afghanistan and that those who will deploy next are going to be walking into.

These are the men, one of them who will be charged at the U.S. beefs up the military presence with being the leader of Afghanistan. The current president, the guy on the left, is Hamid Karzai. Only today did he agree to finally having a runoff vote. He had been opposed to it up to now.

Here's what the U.N. secretary-general had to say about this earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAN KI-MOON, UNITED NATIONS SECRETARY-GENERAL: Having learned the lessons from the first elections, that there was widespread fraud, irregularities and the fraudulence, we will try our best in cross- coordination with Afghan leadership and Afghanistan institutions and other international major partners to make this election as fair and free of fraudulence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: So, that's that. A little background though. The first shot at this election was back in August, but the U.N. said that too many votes were bad and threw them all out.

In fact, about a third of them were said, forget about it. So, they're doing it over. Senator John Kerry is in Afghanistan today. He says there's got to be an election before the White House decides how many more American troops to send there. A new election day in Afghanistan is now scheduled for November 7.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARPAIO: They don't tell me how to do my job enforcing state laws. Come on after me if he thinks I'm violating any of the federal laws.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Is Sheriff Arpaio baiting the feds? And is he using this newscast to do it? I mean, this is a story that we have been all over from the start on this show. Their response to my interview is coming up -- the feds, that is. We have it for you. We called them for you.

Also, the media gets hit with another hoax. No, this one does not involve any balloons, empty or otherwise. But several news organizations reported it as if it were true. They kind of got bamboozled. You're going to see why. The entire thing from beginning to end, you will see it right here. It's coming up. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

Let me get you caught up on what some of the folks are saying. A lot of reaction. I think if you were to go to my Twitter page or my MySpace page or my Facebook page, you would see that a lot of folks are commenting on this.

And I got to tell you, Joe Arpaio gets -- Sheriff Joe Arpaio gets a lot of support on these.

"Rick, I like Joe. We must stop people from crossing the border illegally. Come, but legally."

Let's go to this one right here. This is about the."

"Yes Men Chamber of Commerce hoax was absolutely hilarious. The Chamber deserves even worse, because they hold the nation back."

Interesting comment.

By the way, we're going to get into this conversation in just a little bit. We have one of the actors who posed as a real person holding a news conference. We're going to share that one with you.

And then this one. Go back to there, if you possibly can. Robert, ready? This is on Arpaio. "Debate Arpaio with Lou Dobbs. That would be interesting."

Thanks for the programming recommendation. I had an interesting conversation with Lou yesterday just before my show at 8:00 last night about Arpaio. I think you know his thoughts. We may.

Coming up, we know you love to hate us. Look, I read the e- mails, right? I read them on the air many times. Journalists rank right up there with lawyers and meter maids in the court of public opinion, because whenever we report something that you don't agree with, you blame us.

But you got to see how this one guy took on the media when they parked on his street to cover the balloon boy saga. This is incredible video. And I'm going to share it with you when we come back. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: We try to do this for you consistently. It's time to make some connection with viewers all over the country, keeping tabs on issues like immigration, for example. That's why we call it "Conexion."

It's all about Sheriff Joe Arpaio these days. Every time he and I speak on TV, you respond loudly on my social media accounts, as I have been sharing with you, and, whoa, on my blog as well. My blog is swamped today with one or two types of fired-up feedback. Either you love this guy or you can't stand this guy.

You can go and read some of the viewer comments on my blog for yourself. There's almost like no gray area on this issue, which is a shame, because it is actually a very nuanced issue. But who has time for nuance?

Let me show you a piece of my conversation with the sheriff yesterday. I played for him a comment from a top Immigrations and Customs Enforcement official. Now, remember, I did an interview with ICE. And ICE specifically told me that they're telling Joe Arpaio to stop rounding up people that he thinks are undocumented immigrants, not because they don't want some of those rounded up.

They don't like his methods for doing it. The feds seem to be suggesting that he may be violating the constitutional rights, not of illegal immigrants, but of citizens in the United States who he thinks are illegal immigrants, in his zeal to find undocumented immigrants. That's their point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARPAIO: Well, you know, he doesn't know what he's talking about. I have the right as sheriff to do crime suppression and lock up those that violate the law. He can't tell me, the federal government, to -- how I enforce the laws of the state of Arizona.

He doesn't run the sheriff. He doesn't tell me how to do my law enforcement when I go out...

SANCHEZ: Well, you're not going to...

ARPAIO: ... when I go out...

SANCHEZ: Like Bull Connor in 1960s, you're going to sit there and tell the feds, you don't care what they say, you're going to do it your way and you're going to do it when you want to do it?

ARPAIO: No, they don't tell me how to do my job enforcing state laws. I worked 25 years as a top Justice Department drug enforcement official. I think I know the federal law and how to operate under the federal blanket. So...

SANCHEZ: All right. Well, for the record, they're saying you don't and they're saying you're violating it.

ARPAIO: Then come on after me, if he thinks I'm violating any of the federal laws.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: "Come on after me," he says.

We called the Department of Homeland Security and ICE to find out what they think of Arpaio's apparent taunt. In fact, that's the word they use.

Our contact at DHS says -- and we quote here -- "Sheriff Arpaio flaunts a disregard for ICE priorities." Again, that's their direct quote on this. This is a federal law enforcement agency -- think about this -- talking about a local law enforcement official who says he doesn't care what they want or what they say or what they think.

And they're challenging him on it. How long can this standoff go on, as we have been reporting it to you for the last week or so? Whenever there's something to report, I will bring it to you.

Balloon boy's neighborhood turning into a real knock 'em, sock 'em. The story that gets more weird with each passing day just did again.

We're going to collect the very best "Fotos," put them to music and give it a little catchy lacha lacha (ph) term.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: If you fit a certain minority or class, you probably know this only too well, because it's not just with Hispanics, by the way, it's with all kinds of people. Ask Arabs, for example.

But I will tell you this -- too often when we watch television, we see people playing roles on television that are just stereotypical, I mean, just downright stereotypical roles. I mean, as a Hispanic, I'll tell you, sometimes I see it and I go, boy, I hope that's not the example that's being set for my kids, who are going to go through life with a last name like Sanchez.

That's why so many Hispanic actors have to play maids, for example. Over and over again.

All right. Here's my colleague, Soledad O'Brien, with the story of somebody who is actually trying to change that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aimee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aimee.

AIMEE GARCIA, ACTRESS: No one looked like me when I was younger. I mean, Punky Brewster kind of. I related to her because she had freckles.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Aimee Garcia is part of a new generation of actors changing the face of television.

GARCIA: Being a Latina is an asset instead of a handicap. I think everybody wants a Latina on their show. And we could play anything. So I think Hollywood is starting to catch up on that.

I can't believe that George wants me to play on his team. I haven't swung a golf club in 60 days.

O'BRIEN: To the Latina actress who's not afraid to break down barriers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We welcome you to the National Kidney Foundation's Celebrity Golf Classic.

O'BRIEN: And take on new challenges like golf.

GARCIA: What you lack in skill you have to make up in style.

O'BRIEN: "Aimee G., spicy, Mexi-rican chick in town. Call if you want to see her." Who did you send that to?

GARCIA: I sent that to every casting director in town the day that I arrived. I guess "go big or go home" was my motto.

O'BRIEN: Aimee's plan paid off. The half-Mexican, half-Puerto Rican actress quickly found work in Hollywood and eventually landed a role on "The George Lopez Show."

Aimee's character, like the show, helped break down negative stereotypes.

GARCIA: I feel very lucky that I can play Veronica Palmera, a millionaire Latina with no accent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is wrong with getting a nice Latina a job? GARCIA: To me "The George Lopez Show" did what "The Cosby Show" did in that it was an all-American family who had the trials and tribulations and the laughs and the tears that every other family had. They just happened to be Hispanic.

GEORGE LOPEZ, ACTOR: Aimee Garcia doesn't quick and that says a lot about a person.

O'BRIEN (on camera): What kind of advice do you give her outside of golf, about Hollywood?

LOPEZ: There are a lot of bad parts out there. There will always be bad parts but you don't have to take them.

O'BRIEN (voice-over): Aimee's proud of her latest part as a helicopter pilot in NBC's new medical series "Trauma." She continues to challenge people's perception and expand the definition of what it means to be Latina.

GARCIA: I feel like I won the lottery. I get to be sarcastic; I get to be funny. I get to be strong and I love it. You rarely find a role for a woman like that much and less a Latina.

And yes, we're sexy. We got the sexy thing going on. But we're also smart.

George is like, it's like sweeping.

LOPEZ: You're Latina; I had to make it so you could understand.

GARCIA: Oh!

O'BRIEN: Soledad O'Brien, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: All right. Let me do a little bit of my lacka (ph), lacka (ph), lacka (ph) here. (SPEAKING IN SPANISH).

Now, why am I doing that? I ain't showing off, no. I'm just trying to make a point, that this "Latino in America" thing -- prompter, what are you doing? -- that this "Latino in America" thing that we're doing -- oh, I get it. I started speaking Spanish and the teleprompter operate went absolutely berserk.

He had no idea what I was doing. I got you.

Anyway, we're going to simulcast this thing. So, "Latino in America," for those of you who only speak Spanish, you'll be able to listen to it, the entire documentary, because we're going to be able to have it in a comfortable of different languages. That's important, and we wanted to make sure that you understood that.

I'm going to be leading the national conversation, by the way, about that documentary the mornings after it airs. You can join me live from the CNN Radio studios at 9:00 a.m. Eastern on Thursday. And then Friday, we're going to be streaming live on CNN.com. That's Thursday and Friday morning at 9:00 eastern.

And, yes, lacka (ph), lacka (ph), lacka (ph), it's going to be in both languages for those of you who want to see "Latino in America" and hear "Latino in America."

OK. Here we go.

Cameras capture a gunman robbing a check cashing place, but it's what happens next that will make you see the light.

See the light. It will make sense to you in a moment. Cross my heart.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: We like to call this a national conversation, and it seems like more now than ever it has been. Ever since we have been following up on this Joe Arpaio story, you have been getting very involved.

To the Twitter board we go.

And we're getting both sides of the story, really.

"Oh, God, Rick. ICE? Really, ICE? A federal agency that doesn't enforce federal law wants to come after a sheriff who does?"

Then this one says, "My hope is Arpaio is placed in general population when he's locked up himself. I love your comparison to Bull Connor."

Some didn't, by the way.

"That sheriff better be careful. He might get what he wishes for... 'come after me.' Love to see him behind bars, in pink undies."

You guys are not nice.

All right. We'll continue gathering some of the responses as we get them on both sides.

Remember Wile E. Coyote? I loved this as a kid -- anvils, boulders, trucks. I mean, remember, he got smashed by all of that stuff, but nothing ever killed him. Nothing ever killed that Wile E. Coyote, right?

Well, guess what? It's true, at least in "Fotos."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ay, dios mio.

SANCHEZ: Dios mio is right.

This is the real story of a Wile E. Coyote. He's been appropriately named "Tricky." Here's why.

He was hit by a speeding car on a highway in Nevada and got stuck to the grill. Look at that. There he is, inside.

Eight hours later, the driver who hadn't even realized what he had done got out of the car and saw the coyote trapped in the grill. And you would think that the coyote would be dead, right? No, he was alive.

He was rescued, unscathed. So they put him in a kennel so he could recover and get his wits about him. But then the coyote escaped from the kennel. And as we check, he's probably trying to hitch a ride back home somewhere.

Oh, that Wile E. Coyote.

Finally, a fight involving the media types that I have absolutely nothing to do with. That I have nothing to do with.

Chaos erupts at the Heene, otherwise known as Balloon Dad's home. An angry neighbor lunges at a local news photographer. Then out of nowhere, he's tackled by a stranger.

And this thing continues for quite some time. Some pretty good wrestling moves, by the way. Tempers flare, fists are thrown, and it still may be going on.

Hugging, praying, consoling, that's what makes this one of the stranger robberies that we have ever covered. A store clerk gets emotional when a man bursts in with a gun.

The gunman jumps over the counter but doesn't take her money. This is where this really gets bizarre.

Instead of robbing her at the time, they hug and they pray together. That's right, the robber who he's trying to rob. He even handed her the bullets from his gun as a sign of peace.

But then he went on to rob her anyway. And then walked away with $20 and her cell phone.

Yes. Oh, and he later turned himself in after his mother saw the incident on TV.

You can't make this stuff up, folks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who are you really, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And do you have a business card? Are you with the U.S. Chamber?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do. We can discuss afterwards.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Can I see your business card?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I see yours?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Must-see video. I swear.

Oh, boy, there is much more to the story than whose last name and what logo appears on a business card. These guys are -- well, I'm going to save the rest of the story for you, but it's all caught on camera and you have to see it, because it's as bizarre as any comedy you have ever seen.

Stay with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: All right. We're going to spend a lot of time on a story that many of you have been waiting for today. You want to see somebody who's really hot under the collar? Let's watch together.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This sign in sheet here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm sorry, we rented this room.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're going to have to refund us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fraudulently. Under fraudulent -- it's fraud, it's illegal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, I don't know who you are...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: All right. You see that guy right there? He is a media relations director for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce -- a pretty important organization. He is apparently dealing with what he believes is a P.R. disaster. He was moments too late.

Who's telling the truth? It's like two guys pointing at each other saying, "I'm the one," and the other one says, "No, I'm the one." And people -- reporters are confused -- you won't believe this, folks. Stay right there. I'm going to show you the whole thing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: All right. Welcome back.

Now, let me take you through this. Remember that guy from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce I just showed you, the guy just before the break? He looked agitated, very agitated. Now, I'm going to tell you why. And by the way, he had good reason to be agitated.

Let me show you what happened at the National Press Club yesterday. You see the man on the podium, behind the chamber of commerce logo. He introduced himself as Hingo Sembra. Hingo Sembra, chamber of commerce spokesperson -- that's what he said. And he had big news to deliver.

Here's what he said: he said that the chamber of commerce now would support -- the U.S. Chamber of Commerce now would support a key bill in Congress that aims to halt climate change. So, he would be like on Al Gore's side, they usually aren't. Big news indeed, because the chamber of commerce is strongly opposed Waxman-Markey, the cap- and-trade bill. So this one would have been very big news indeed, but then, things got strange -- real strange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC WOHLSCHLEGEL, U.S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE SPOKESPERSON: OK. This is -- I'm Eric Wohlschlegel with the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. This is not an official U.S. Chamber of Commerce event. So, I don't know what pretenses you're here. I know some of you in the press world. But this is a fraudulent press activity and a stunt.

Can I see your business card?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: So, what we've got here are dueling spokespersons for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, each demanding the other's credentials. He says, "No, I'm with the chamber." The other one says, "No, I'm with the chamber." He says, "Show me your credentials." The other says, "No, show me your credentials."

Reporters are freaked.

One is an imposter, right? Which one do you think is the right guy? The man on the right, the man who barged in, or is it Hingo Sembra -- the one who called the news conference to announce the "about face," the sudden support for climate change bill?

If you said the imposter is Hingo Sembra -- great name, you -- my friend, are 100 percent correct. But now, watch what happens.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR: Well, first, from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, a news release basically saying the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is now getting ready to throw its weight behind strong climate legislation. The spokesman for the chamber president, Tom Donohue, announcing today at the National Press Club...

UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR: A reversal on climate change from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. Breaking news right now, the chamber of commerce is saying it will reverse its position on the climate change bill and once a carbon tax...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: News organizations, some news organizations bought it, hook, line and sinker. By the way, those guys went alone. Apparently, "Reuters" fell for the spoof and fed the story to the Web sites, "The New York Times," "The Washington Post."

I'm happy to say we did not report it on CNN.

Now, this is several stories really wrapped into one. And I'm going to try to unravel them for you as we go through this. I'm going to start with Andy Bichlbaum -- Andy Bichlbaum who is, aka, "Hingo Sembra." He's the imposter, the man who posed as the spokesperson for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

Now, he's group has gotten a lot of publicity recently. It's called the "Yes Men." To put it simply, this is the kind of stuff that they do.

ANDY BICHLBAUM, ACTOR, "YES MEN": Yes.

SANCHEZ: Thanks for being with us, sir.

BICHLBAUM: Thank you, Rick.

SANCHEZ: So, what? Are you an actor?

BICHLBAUM: Not at all. Nope. No acting training at all. Terrible at it and I get nervous.

SANCHEZ: I don't know if I'm going to be able to believe this. I don't know if I'm going to be able to believe anything that you tell me during this conference but we'll give it our best shot. What was the point that you were trying to make with that fake news conference that some news organizations bought into?

BICHLBAUM: The point we were trying to make is that the real chamber of commerce has a completely backwards troglodytic, in fact, position on climate change. They are behind the rest of the world. And they seem to be working hard trying to make the U.S. the laughingstock of the world.

You know, if we send President Obama to Copenhagen in December to the Copenhagen Climate Conference without a strong climate bill, the U.S. will be behind the rest of the world, will be the laughingstock of the world and will be dooming the planet, according to the science.

SANCHEZ: But, you know...

BICHLBAUM: We've got to do something now.

SANCHEZ: But, you know, and let -- I do want to talk to you a little bit about the actual hoax because I thought it was interesting how that happened. But since you said that, do you know there's a lot of political pressure on this president from the right? There are people out there who deny global warming -- not just denied whether it was caused by man or not caused by man, but deny that's even happening despite the evidence. And that's the pressure that's being put on them.

What do you say to those people who say, "Look --- hey, look, Mr. Actor Man, don't come on here and start telling us what the U.S. policy should be, what do you know, we reject global warming outright"?

BICHLBAUM: Well, what we are saying is that, you know, there is, as you said, a lot of pressure on the president, on the government, on policymakers of all sorts, from interests that don't want us to do anything about climate change because they think it will be bad for business. And...

SANCHEZ: When you called them troglodytic -- when you call them troglodytic, are you referring to those -- are you referring to those on the right who have a very narrow view of this issue?

BICHLBAUM: I'm referring to the corporate interests, specifically, that are actively and expensively lobbying against climate legislation for entirely economic reasons. It's not because they don't believe the science. Everybody who -- I mean, if you believe in science at all, you have to believe that climate change is real and it's human-caused.

What they are lobbying against is what they perceive as a problem for business. And that's troglodytic because if we don't do something about climate change and don't do it fast, there will be no business.

SANCHEZ: By the way, I just want to be clear, we asked the chamber of commerce to come on and they describe their position on this, they wouldn't. But they're not happy with what you did. I can't imagine...

BICHLBAUM: I'll do it for them.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: I can't imagine that you'd surprised by the fact that they are not fans.

Let me read you what they sent us though -- this is important, to be fair. "The U.S. Chamber of Commerce continues to support strong federal legislation and a biding international agreement to reduce carbon emissions and address climate change. These irresponsible tactics are a foolish distraction from the serious effort by our nation to reduce greenhouse gases. We will be asking law enforcement authorities to investigate this event."

What's your reaction to what they say?

BICHLBAUM: Well, I wonder why they haven't said anything about -- the only position that the chamber has taken on climate change that's concrete is to lobby against the Waxman-Markey bill. The Waxman-Markey bill, of course, had lots of problems, but it was a bill. And this bill is stronger. It still has lots of problems. It's based on cap-and-trade, which isn't proven to work.

But they are not saying we want a stronger climate bill, they are not saying we want -- they're not saying anything at all. And their members -- their own members correctly perceive that they are against the legislation and several of them have defected, as well as several local chambers.

SANCHEZ: Have we got Ali Velshi out there? Let's put -- let's make a box and let's stick Ali in this because I know -- Ali is a lot like me, he hears the conversation and he gets engaged and then he gets passionate, and then he wants to get into it.

But let me ask you one more question, Andy, the fact that you got attention, were able to drive the news cycle yesterday with something that was a hoax, I'm thinking, what happened with balloon boy, for example -- does it get to the point where you almost need to do something like this to get the attention for something you think is legitimate, otherwise, it wont -- the story won't be told?

BICHLBAUM: No, I don't think it's the only way to do it. I think, when thousands or tens of thousands of people vote with their feet or even more, and put pressure on government through -- well, there's -- for example, there's a site, BeyondTalk.com, the "Climate Pledge of Resistance," which encourages citizens to risk arrest for something that may mean the future of our planet, the climate change.

SANCHEZ: But that's interesting. I mean, I just can't help but...

BICHLBAUM: That can also make a difference.

SANCHEZ: I know.

Hey, Ali, what do you make of this? And first of all, set us straight on what the ongoing controversy is.

ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

SANCHEZ: I mean, it's hard to understand cap-and-trade and all that.

VELSHI: Yes, we're trying to give you...

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: This is a conservative organization at least when it comes to global warming, right?

VELSHI: Well, look, the idea is that we -- if we want to limit emissions, the best way to do this -- according to many people -- is to charge for the right to emit. So, think about this as indulgences in the Catholic Church. A cap and trade basically means you buy the right to pollute more than you are allowed to pollute.

Now, there's going to be a big conference in Copenhagen in the middle of December, all countries are going to this conference and they really need to come out with a deal that says, "Worldwide, we are going to cut carbon emissions." What a lot of people say is that this is going to unduly hurt American businesses. If the rest of the world doesn't sign on, business that pollute will do business in those country that don't sign on. And American businesses will get hurt.

The problem is, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is increasingly out of sync with some of its own members who have defected, saying, "We can't take this position on climate change, we all have to subscribe to the fact that things have to change. And if we get some legislation that we understand, we can build our infrastructure, our factories, our plants, so that they are actually more efficient. But we need rules, we need them now."

SANCHEZ: Well, you just said something, but you said it so fast, I missed it. How do -- how do American businesses get hurt by signing on to this, again?

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: Well, let's say America signs on to this idea that we have to limit the amount of pollution that we put out. So, factories have to pay extra if they're going to pollute more. They're going to put out more carbon, CO2 emissions.

Let's say, just for argument's sake, Russia didn't sign on this international treaty. So, all of these companies that want to do things that pollute a lot will go and relocate to Russia. That's some people's arguments. And Americans can't compete because they pay more to manufacture the same things. That's the argument that we have to have everybody on board. The bottom line is, the world is moving towards fixing this.

SANCHEZ: But, are we -- are we -- I mean, Andy called it -- we're down to 30 seconds. Andy called it troglodytic, our position -- you know, and referring to troglodyte.

VELSHI: Yes. It's not that out of sync. But it is out of -- there are some major U.S. corporations that have left the chamber of commerce because they feel that they're out of touch, they need to move on a little quickly, more quickly with this -- including Apple, including energy companies Duke Energy, Exelon, Pacific Gas and Electric, big companies.

SANCHEZ: That doesn't look good. I mean, when Apple walks away and says, you know, we don't want to be associated with you guys because you're thinking so backward...

VELSHI: Yes. It's a problem for the chamber of commerce.

SANCHEZ: ... it is a problem.

All right. I'm glad you raise that.

Thank you, sir. We'll get back with you. It's nice seeing you yesterday in New York.

VELSHI: You, too, buddy.

SANCHEZ: Let's do this. Let's take it over to Wolf Blitzer and I'm going to continue the conversation here on CNN.com/live. Here now is Mr. Blitzer.