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American Morning
Some hospitals restricting children from entering due to fear of swine flu contagion; President Obama may make Afghanistan strategy decision before outcome of Afghan runoff presidential elections; another homegrown terror plot uncovered in U.S.; Homegrown Terror Plot Uncovered; Navy Senior Chief Forces Out and Faces Punishment for Gay Hazing Scandal; Government to Cut Payback for Bailed out Bosses
Aired October 22, 2009 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: That brings us close to the top of the hour now. It's 58 minutes after the hour. Thanks for joining us on this Thursday, October the 22nd on the Most News in the Morning. I'm John Roberts.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kiran Chetry. Glad you're with us. Here are the big stories that we'll be bringing you in the next 15 minutes. First in states across the country, swine flu is spreading faster than many expected. And schools are actually shutting down, some hospitals being forced to change some of their rules. We're going to tell you why, just ahead.
ROBERTS: The White House confirming President Obama might make a decision on troop levels in Afghanistan before Afghan voters go back to the polls for a runoff election on the 7th of November. And that has some people wondering how the administration can make a commitment to Afghanistan before knowing who is in charge there.
CHETRY: And another homegrown terror arrest. A Massachusetts man accused of plotting to kill two U.S. officials and open fire on shoppers in malls. He had dual citizenship, U.S. and Egyptian. But then say he even traveled to the Middle East to try to get training from the Taliban. So just how serious is the terror threat we face in our own borders. We'll talk about that a bit later.
But first, we'll begin with the swine flu threat. This virus spreading from coast to coast, a lot faster than many expected. And there are some startling numbers we're finding this morning. We have a map to show you the states in red are the ones that have a highest percentage of cases right now. The hardest hit areas are in the Southeast as well as the Great Lakes region and in some states out West.
The Department of Education is saying that H1N1 has forced 198 schools across 15 different states to shut down. They call it a huge increase from just a few days ago. Let's take a look at those numbers as well. On Monday, 28,000 kids were out of school because of either swine flu or swine flu symptoms.
Two days later, that shot up to 65,317 yesterday. Swine flu also has hospitals across the country on alert this morning. In an extraordinary move, many are restricting visitor access and asking to keep young kids out completely unless they are there to get treatment. Ted Rowlands has more now in L.A.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John and Kiran, we're in the lobby of Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles. And the sign over here is pretty clear. Nobody under the age of 18 can come into the hospital to visit because of fears over the H1N1 virus.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS: Five-year-old Jack and his 8-year-old brother Michael are waiting with Grandma on the front steps of Cedars-Sinai hospital while the rest of the family visits their aunt, who just gave birth to a baby boy.
H1N1 cases in Los Angeles County have shot up over the past two weeks. Many hospitals, including Cedars, are restricting children's visits, as a precaution.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I think that's a good idea. It's the best for everyone.
ROWLANDS: Inside the hospital, there are plenty of antibacterial stations and reminders for people to wash their hands. The reason children aren't allowed, according to Dr. Rekha Murthy is simple. The evidence shows that with this virus they are the most vulnerable group, meaning the odds are higher they'll either get it here or spread it here.
DR. REKHA MURTHY, INFECTIOUS DISEASE DIVISION, CEDARS-SINAI MEDICAL CENTER: We're experiencing an epidemic that appears to be actually escalating in our community, and hospitals have to respond to that escalation until we know it's going to peak and reduce.
ROWLANDS: Hospitals around the country have instituted similar investigation restrictions. The new policy at Cedars went into effect Monday, with security guards turning away children at hospital entrances.
JOHN SAIZA, SECURITY GUARD, CEDARS-SINAI MEDICAL CENTER: Hardly any problems at all. I think maybe 90 percent of everybody who has come through here are very understandable of what's going on.
ROWLANDS: Jack and Michael's new cousin scheduled to come home at the end of the week. Cedars and other hospitals say they are hoping that children will be welcomed back soon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS: At this point, the hospital says they plan to keep these limited visitation restrictions in place until they see a decrease in the number of cases in southern California.
If they see an increase in cases, especially near this hospital or other hospitals, they may actually add more restrictions to visitations and cancel elective surgeries -- John, Kiran?
CHETRY: Ted Rowlands for us. Thanks. So, just how worried are you about swine flu vaccine? Here's a look at an "A.M. Extra" right now. It's a brand new CNN/opinion research poll that shows 43 percent of people that we polled said that they believed the shot itself could cause serious illness or even death.
So what do you think? Are you going to get the vaccine, do you think it's safe? Leave your message on a show hotline. The number is 877-my-amfix.
Interestingly enough, I was talking to my child's pediatrician yesterday, and they said if it had come out early enough, if they had been able to manufacture swine flu early enough, that would have just been rolled into our regular flu vaccine, they wouldn't have had to get a second shot.
ROBERTS: But now it's piecemeal across the country. You have to go back and get two different shots.
The White House says President Obama may be ready to decide on troop levels for Afghanistan before that runoff election on November 7th. Defense Secretary Robert Gates insists we can't even afford to wait that long. But the administration will not commit to a deadline at this point.
Our Barbara Starr is live at the Pentagon for us this morning. Barbara, it's tough to make a call on troop levels in Afghanistan when you don't even really even know who is going to be in charge.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is, John, but the clock is ticking here at the Pentagon. And for military officials, they are beginning to come to the conclusion there may be no choice. President Obama, as you say, announcing that he might decide on the strategy before the November 7th runoff. But that doesn't go to the question of more U.S. troops.
Two very senior people, directly involved, Senator John Kerry who brokered much of that runoff election deal, and Defense Secretary Robert Gates, different point of views. Have a listen to what they both have had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY, (D) MASSACHUSETTS: I think that as a matter of common sense, the president would feel that is makes sense to wait until the end of this two-week period. Two weeks is a very short span of time, folks, to determine whether or not you have a government to work with in a war. It's very hard for me to believe that the president would decide otherwise.
ROBERT GATES, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: But I think that we need to be realistic that the issues of corruption and governance that we are trying to work with the Afghan government on are not going to be solved simply by the outcome of the presidential election. This is going to be a work in progress, an evolutionary effort. And we need to be realistic about that. (END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: Behind the scenes, John, senior military commanders are very strongly siding with the defense secretary. They say you cannot wait. The clock ticking, winter coming, it's going to take months to get more troops there. Even if you decided to do that starting today, it's going to take a long time.
And the bottom line, regardless of the election, regardless of the outcome of the Afghan government, security must be improved in Afghanistan, they say. And right now, it's really only U.S. troops that have the ability to do that - John.
ROBERTS: We'll see how the White House responds. Barbara Starr for us this morning, Barbara, thanks.
The two conservative filmmakers at the center of the ACORN controversy releasing a new undercover video targeting the community organizing group. They again posed as a pimp and a prostitute. This time they asked for advice about a possible housing loan from an ACORN manager in Philadelphia.
The tape appears to have the audio of the filmmakers but not the ACORN manager.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We talked about the abusive pimp and the new prostitution business.
And we don't want to have to do anything with that guy. If not straighten her out, give her her own business where she doesn't have to be beholden to that guy.
We said our business was all cash.
He doesn't have a credit card.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't ever, ever have a credit card.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything is in cash.
We talked about loan sharks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: ACORN says the two were only in there only for a few minutes and were thrown out. But the filmmakers say ACORN was lying and the tape proves they were in the office for more than a half an hour.
CHETRY: It's six minutes after the hour right now.
Also new this morning, sex, drugs, and Bernie Madoff. There's a lawsuit claiming that Madoff's workplace was rife with cocaine and that it fostered a culture of sexual deviance as far back as the 1970s.
The convicted Ponzi schemer would send employees to buy drugs for company use. Some called it jokingly "the North Pole" because of the cocaine use there.
The alleged illicit behavior included parties with topless entertainment, according to these allegations, as well as employees having sex in the office.
This complaint also says Madoff used money stolen from investors to pay for escorts and masseuses.
ROBERTS: Education Secretary Arne Duncan calling for revolutionary change in college programs that train American teachers. He says the programs are simply cash cows that do a mediocre job of preparing teachers to perform in today's classrooms.
Duncan will outline his plan for change in a speech at Columbia University's teacher college later on this morning. Teacher accountability has been Duncan's main focus since taking office.
CHETRY: And for the second year in a row, the Philadelphia Phillies are World Series bound. They beat the Los Angeles Dodgers 10-4. The defending world champions now advance to play either the New York Yankees or the Los Angeles Angels in the World Series, which starts a week from today.
The Yankees still lead the American league championship series, 3-1. They are playing tonight, so they do have a chance to wrap it up. Congrats to the Phillies.
ROBERTS: Yet another homegrown terror plot uncovered. What is going on in this country? We'll try to find out coming up next.
It's seven minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: It's 10 1/2 minutes after the hour.
Straight ahead on the most news in the morning, your tax dollars bailed them out. Now the government is making the bosses at these too big to fail companies take a major pay cut. But should the government be limiting executive pay - Kiran.
CHETRY: John, thanks. It's 11minutes after the hour right now.
The feds breaking on another suspected homegrown terror plot. This one involves plans to gun down mall shoppers to assassinate two unnamed members of the U.S. government.
The man behind it, Tarek Mehanna, allegedly. He was picked up yesterday near Boston for a plot that allegedly spans seven years and included trips overseas to seek training from the Taliban.
It's just the latest high-profile case of an American allegedly trying to kill other Americans here at home. Joining us for some insight into this threat, Peter Brookes, former CIA officer and former deputy assistant secretary of defense. Peter, welcome.
BROOKES: Good morning.
CHETRY: And also Fran Townsend with us here in New York, Homeland Security adviser under former president Bush. Good to see both of you this morning.
So Fran, we had this New York terror plot with Zazi. We had the one in Illinois. You sat at the White House looking at these threat reports. What goes through your mind when you see what appears to be many cropping up at once?
FRANCES TOWNSEND, FORMER BUSH HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER: Kiran, what the public normally doesn't see is that there are multiple plots going on and investigations at any one time.
Here's the good news. What I take from this is when you see a plot like the one in Boston where it's been going on for years and it's been monitored and investigated by the FBI, clearly the FBI has transformed itself. It no longer views itself just as a law enforcement agency that investigates the case after it's happened, the terrorist plot.
But they are now investigating these with the eye towards disrupting them, understanding the conspiracy, and identifying others here in the United States that may be a threat.
CHETRY: And Peter, I want to ask you about that. How vulnerable do you think we are to an attack within your borders when it comes to this?
We talk about the American-Muslim community largely being opposed to terrorism. But they talk about this small segment within that community that seems to be open to radicalization. What are the risk factors and how do we access how big of a threat that is?
PETER BROOKES, FORMER CIA OFFICER: This is very troubling, Kiran. Obviously, this is the fourth plot a month, in the last two months that's been discovered.
You are wondering here whether we're seeing these are individual photographs or the beginning of a very bad movie. We'll have to see.
The good news is we broke up the plot. The bad news is the fact that these plots existed, and some of these individuals are being radicalized in place, inside the United States.
So I think we do have to be very concerned about our own complacency, and that there is still a threat out there despite the fact being eight years away from 9/11. In fact, some of these individuals took their inspiration from 9/11.
So I think there still is a threat out there. There are many things to look at. The Patriot Act is going to expire at the end of the year. Immigration issues -- this one person overstayed -- the fellow in Dallas who was going to blow up a skyscraper, had overstayed his visa. He came here in 2007.
So there are a lot of things to be concerned about. I think this is a wake-up call as we all move into the fall holiday season that we still need to be very concerned about our national security.
CHETRY: I want to ask you about that, Fran. This person allegedly got some training from the Taliban, went overseas.
And as we collectively and as this administration is deciding tragedy moving forward, fighting the Taliban versus separating from some of the al Qaeda elements, what are the implications of this if he did, indeed, get training from the Taliban?
TOWNSEND: Kiran, it's a very good point. What really worries me is it's a real Washington idea that we can -- that these guys carry membership cards or have a big "T" on their shirt, that we can discern the difference between al Qaeda and Taliban on the battlefield. We can't. These guys share a hateful ideology. They do want to kill us. They do ploy against us.
And this case ought to be a reminder to policy makers in Washington that it's not so easy to tell one from the other, especially when they are mixed together.
CHETRY: And Peter, the other interesting thing is when we talk about resources. I mean, as we know, the Feds did a great job in this case tracking for several years. But, you know, as we take a look at threats and whether or not we have the resources to defend against them -- we had the Homeland Security Secretary yesterday on our air talking about swine flu because that's something that is taking up a lot of resources and a lot of time.
Swine flu, obviously, one sort of threat. It's an epidemic right now. But then terror as well. Do we have the resources or are we stretched too thin?
BROOKES: That's a critical question and a very important point, Kiran, you make, because Congress is looking at their spending for next year, and it's critically important that the FBI internally is resourced to deal with these sort of plots.
Some of these things, as Fran pointed out, extended over several years. It requires linguistic experience. Some of these were stings where they needed people that could pose as perhaps as members of these terrorist groups. That required a specific set of skills.
It's also important that we are well-resourced overseas through our military intelligence and our central intelligence agency so that information when somebody travels to Yemen or Pakistan, we get that information. Homeland Security needs to be in there. So it's very, very important as Congress looks at spending bills now that they make sure that these national security elements outside of the military are well resourced as well. CHETRY: And, Fran, we were talking a little bit about this off camera. But just in terms of figuring out who is a potential threat, especially here at home. I mean, we have a whole other challenge overseas. But here at home, what are investigators looking for in terms of who could maybe be someone that would become radicalized. I mean, in these cases we, in some of these plots that we're talking about, some were converts to Islam. Others were born Muslim, but the vast majority of American Muslims reject terror. So how do they find out who may be somebody to watch?
TOWNSEND: Well, of course you know, the federal investigators, as well as state and locals look for cooperation from Muslim-Americans who do reject the idea of terror. But, of course, you're looking at places like prison populations where a preacher may radicalize someone who's already incarcerated or you look at mosques that have particularly young populations that attract -- that are attracted there by a radical preacher.
And so the FBI and state and local law enforcement work together to identify these sort of hot beds if you will, because, of course we know the greatest threat to us inside the United States are what the feds call clean skins. Those who are either American citizens or legally here who've got no record or other connection. And so you've got to look for these indicators that they may be getting radicalized when they're inside our borders.
CHETRY: All right. We'll have to leave it there. But I want to thank both of you for terrific insight today. Peter Brookes as well as Frances Townsend, thanks you. Thanks, Fran.
TOWNSEND: Thank you.
CHETRY: John.
ROBERTS: So some people are saying it's justice. Others are saying, uh-oh. The Wall Street folks are now at war with the White House. Limiting executive pay, the latest move by the Obama administration. Some people taking as much as 90 percent cuts in their compensation.
Christine Romans breaking it all down for you coming up next on the Most News in the Morning.
Seventeen minutes now after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: What a beautiful shot this morning of Baltimore coming to us from WBAL. Right now, it's cloudy and 51 degrees, which makes for a beautiful sunrise. A little later, it's going to get even prettier. Mostly sunny, a high of 76 in Baltimore.
ROBERTS: The Obama administration targeting the fat paychecks of America's top bailed out bosses.
Our Christine is "Minding Your Business" this morning. And, you know, you got to wonder, is the White House now declaring war on some elements of Wall Street.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: People on Wall Street think that the White House is. Even the language over the past week, as I'm sure you've heard has been tougher and tougher and tougher.
The president stood here in New York just a couple of nights ago and said look, listen up. If you're in the financial service industry, if you're in finance, you got to get on board with me. We've got to have better regulations. And now, we'll be hearing from Kenneth Feinberg who is the president's czar for pay at 1:30 this afternoon to find out more about this.
So look, big pay cuts are coming. This is the bailout hall of shame. This is not the companies who took taxpayer money, 10 billion, two billion, one billion and then paid it back when they could. These are the companies that wouldn't exist if it weren't for your money and my money propping them up. And this is about changing pay culture, rewarding for performance, not for big risks in the near term, getting rich off near-term big risks. And in the eyes of the administration, that's one of the reasons why the economy was in such dire straits a year ago and the financial system almost came to the end.
Companies also knew this was coming. I was talking to somebody at one of these big banks recently, who said look, there have been a lot of meetings, a lot of requests for information. And this person told me they were pretty impressed at that bank about how he had been behaving. He seemed like it was by the books, by the numbers and was really thoughtfully doing this. For a couple of months, he's been...
ROBERTS: A lot of logos in the big vista wall there.
ROMANS: That's true.
ROBERTS: And the one in the upper left-hand corner, AIG potentially going to get hit the hardest here?
ROMANS: It looks like AIG -- many reports that AIG will be the hardest hit. And don't forget the financial products division. This is the area that really was a big problem.
So here's an example. If you -- if you made $2 million at AIG, your salary would be slashed to no more than $200,000. And the reports are that it could be no one at FP, the Financial Products Division is going to get a salary of more than $200,000. Salary, salary.
ROBERTS: They can still get other compensation.
ROMANS: Yes. And that's kind of what the idea is here is if you have deferred compensation where you're paid, you know, longer out.
CHETRY: In stock?
ROMANS: Right. Right. That's what they're looking for.
CHETRY: OK. Got a "Romans' Numeral" for us this morning?
ROMANS: $50,303. And ladies and gentlemen, this is meant to put in perspective...
ROBERTS: Oh, that's the average take home pay of American family or...
ROMANS: That's right. It's real median income for American families. So, if you're crying...
CHETRY: My guess was going to be totally wrong.
ROMANS: If you're crying for those poor former millionaires at -- who are only going to take home $200,000, remember it's still four times what the average family makes. So some of you are going to be listening to this saying big huge pay cuts for the bailout hall of shame.
Wait, some of these guys are going to be taking home $500,000? What? Yes. They're still going to me to most of us some of these numbers are still going to seem kind of big.
ROBERTS: All right. Christine Romans "Minding Your Business" this morning. Christine, thanks so much.
Remember the story Carol Costello brought us last week. Charges of hazing in the U.S. Navy.
Well, heads are beginning to roll. She'll tell you who coming up next.
Twenty-three minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: It's 26 1/2 minutes after the hour. We are just hours away now from part two of Soledad O'Brien's special series "LATINO IN AMERICA." Be here at 9:00 p.m. Eastern for this unprecedented look at how Latinos are helping reshape our culture and our country. Soledad and Rick Sanchez will be here at 8:50 this morning for a special sneak peek.
And here are this morning's top stories. A security guard at Newark Liberty Airport denies that he made threats against President Obama. Fifty-five-year-old John Brek was arrested on Tuesday one day before the president arrived in New Jersey to attend a rally for Governor Corzine. He's going to be arraigned this afternoon.
Some of his co-workers report that a conversation that they thought was threatening to the president. He denies it, of course. Police say a search of his home turned up at least 40 firearms, all of them apparently legally owned.
CHETRY: Well, the dollar continues its slide hitting a 14-month low against the Euro. The European currency peaking above $1.50 late yesterday. The dollar has been suffering from the near zero interest rates set by the Federal Reserve.
ROBERTS: And FAA investigators have determined what caused a Delta Airlines jet to land on a taxiway instead of a runway at Atlanta's airport early Monday. They say the runway was illuminated but approach lights in a ground base instrument system that helps pilots line up for the runway failed. The incident involved the Delta flight from Rio de Janeiro to Atlanta. There were no planes, thankfully on the taxiway at that time and no one was injured.
CHETRY: Well, let's turn now on a CNN exclusive that we first brought you last week after allegations of hazing and sexual harassment against a gay sailor and others. The man at the center of the Navy scandal is now gone.
Carol Costello broke the story. She has new information for us this morning live from our Washington bureau.
Hi, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kiran. For those who love the Navy and wonder why such abuse was allowed to go on for two years, this morning there is a sense of justice finally served.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO (voice-over): It's what Joseph Rocha and others in his Navy unit had hoped for. Accountability.
JOSEPH ROCHA, FORMER NAVY DOG HANDLER: I feel good about what the Navy has chosen to do.
COSTELLO: Rocha was 18 in 2005 when he joined the Navy's canine unit in Bahrain. He played by the military's rules and kept his sexual orientation under raps. But even though he says no one in his unit knew he was gay, he still suffered because of something the Navy had long outlawed. Hazing.
ROCHA: I was ordered to get on my knees. Pretend to have oral sex with another service member. I was instructed as to how to be more queeny, more queer and more homosexual, more believable and...
COSTELLO (on camera): And who was instructing you to do these things?
ROCHA: My chief.
COSTELLO (voice-over): Rocha says the hazing was widespread. Gays, straights and women in his unit were targets, too. And in its own investigation at the Bahrain unit, the Navy found more than 90 incidents of hazing and other abuses. Yet the man who allegedly ordered the hazing, senior Chief Michael Toussaint, was promoted and assigned to the elite Navy SEALs until now.
After Congressman Joe Sestak told the Navy to further investigate and CNN's own investigation, senior Chief Michael Toussaint has been removed from his current leadership position and forced to leave active duty in January.
ROCHA: This is a great day for everyone, for our men, our women, heterosexual, lesbian or gay. For everyone, this re-establishes what Navy leadership is. That anything less than leadership that meets the core values will be punished.
COSTELLO: For Jennifer Valdivia's family, Toussaint's punishment comes too late. Valdivia was Toussaint's second in command. Fellow sailor Shaun Hogan.
SHAUN HOGAN, NAVY RESERVIST: On video I witnessed another training scenario where Michael Toussaint ordered Jennifer Valdivia, his second in command to - well, she was dressed apparently only in a bed sheet and she was handcuffed to a bed in a barracks room and she was in a - almost like a cat fight with two other women.
COSTELLO: Valdivia's family told CNN she expected to take the fall for the hazing incident. She committed suicide after posting this message on MySpace. "Tired of being blamed for other people's mistakes." We asked the Navy why Toussaint wasn't facing more serious punishment. The Navy told us "court martial is not an option. The situation presented unique circumstances." But that's not quite good enough for Congressman Sestak.
REP. JOE SESTAK (D), PENNSYLVANIA: That indicates to me that there's a failure of what accountable leadership is.
COSTELLO: Still, news of Toussaint's demotion has restored Rocha's pride in the Navy. Finally justice. Even after four years of waiting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: We tried to contact Michael Toussaint for comment. The Navy tells us he's not talking to the press. Also the Navy says the investigation is continuing and says again these incidents were not in keeping with its values and standards - Kiran.
CHETRY: All right. Carol Costello for us. Great story. And for more on this or if you'd like to leave a comment, we welcome it at our blog, cnn.com/amfix.
ROBERTS: Planning the future of your health care. You can't see it but it's happening. Behind closed doors and not only is the future of the industry at stake but so is the drug industry. As you can imagine, they are going to great lengths to try to woo lawmakers to see their side of the argument.
According to a new article out today in "Time" magazine in the first six months of 2009, this is the first six months of this year, drug companies spent close to $110 million to influence the debate. Karen Tumulty is a senior writer for "Time" magazine. She joins us now. Karen just how much cash is floating around out there on behalf strictly of the pharmaceutical industry trying to influence what's going on behind closed doors on Capitol Hill? KAREN TUMULTY, SENIOR WRITER, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well, $110 million breaks down to $609,000 a day. The drug and biotech industry is spending more than any other segment of the health care industry to influence this debate. And they are getting a pretty good return on their investment.
ROBERTS: Yes, now in terms of how many people are out there roaming the halls of Capitol Hill, and in terms of lobbyists, what are the numbers?
TUMULTY: Well, basically, it boils down to 2.5 lobbyists for every single member of Congress. So this is also a pretty full employment industry as well.
ROBERTS: And you know, Congressman Emanuel Cleaver, a Democrat of Missouri, said he's never seen anything like this in 30 years of politics. Lobbyists so thick outside congressional offices, he says it's even difficult to get to a vote. You got to wade your way through the crowd out there. Is there anything to compare this to in the last 30 years?
TUMULTY: Yes, certainly not that I've seen. And it's not just the lobbyists. The money goes into a lot of other things. It finances a lot of, you know, so-called research. Expert reports. Consultant reports. A lot of do-good organizations are springing up, you know, with names that sound like, you know, quite beneficial organizations. But you look at them and it turns out the whole things are being run by drug company money.
ROBERTS: Now, prescription drugs haven't been a huge conversation in the overall debate over health care reform. Most of it has been leveled at the public option, whether or not abortions are covered, the so-called death panel debate. How much money is in this for the drug companies?
TUMULTY: Well, the big fight has been over something called biologics. And these are - right now they are only about 20 percent of the market. But they are, by five or six years from now, these biotech drugs, they're miracle drugs, are probably going to be half of all new drugs that get approved. And the big fight right now is whether there will ever be something like a generic equivalent for these drugs that can cost 20, 40, even $200,000 a year to administer.
And, you know, the Federal Trade Commission basically says they should get no protection at all beyond their patents. But both the House and the Senate key committees have voted to give them 12 years of protection beyond their patents. And this is something that is going to, you know, make hundreds of billions of dollars a year for the industry. But that money is going to be coming out of the pockets of insurance companies and the patients who need these drugs.
ROBERTS: So the principle that they are working on now is spend a dollar today to try to save 10, five, 10 years down the road?
TUMULTY: That's right. But there's a real, you know, there's a balancing act here because you do want to have the financial incentives in place that encourage these companies to keep coming out with these blockbuster drugs. So they are saying that it's absolutely crucial that they have some sort of protection here so they can keep working.
But again, the Federal Trade Commission has said that giving them too much protection could actually stifle innovation because these guys are just basically going to sit on what they have and tinker with that, rather than going out and finding new stuff.
ROBERTS: Just so folks at home know what we're talking about in terms of this biologics. A couple of names, you might recognize - Herceptin, which is a miracle drug in terms of some forms of breast cancer. Remicade, which is a drug for rheumatoid arthritis. I mean, these are all very, very powerful drugs that work very well and certainly beneficial to society.
And again, the argument is just how much protection do you give the drug companies who are coming out with these drugs. But overall, Karen, between the pharmaceutical industry, the health care industry, the doctors lobby, how much money is being spent? How much money is being thrown around on Capitol Hill these days?
TUMULTY: It's well into the hundreds of millions of dollars. And a lot of it is very difficult to trace because it is going not only into the campaign coffers of elected officials and the salaries of lobbyists, but also into organizations that are essentially front groups for these interests. And for, you know, scientific sounding consultant reports.
ROBERTS: So with all that money floating around in Washington, who really has the influence here? The lobbyists or the voters?
TUMULTY: That is a very good question. And right now on some of these key questions you've got to say that the lobbyists are getting pretty much everything they are asking for. And considering how important it is to bring down health care costs in the long run, I think the rest of us are the losers.
ROBERTS: Karen Tumulty from "Time" magazine. It's always great to talk to you. Thanks for coming in this morning.
TUMULTY: Thanks a lot.
CHETRY: Well, from Hollywood to Capitol Hill, Oscar winning actress Nicole Kidman testified before lawmakers yesterday about her other passion, helping to end violence against women around the world. The actress, who is also a goodwill ambassador for the United Nations, says that she won't accept movie roles that demean women.
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NICOLE KIDMAN, ACTRESS: I get offered films often that depict violence against women, and if I feel that it's exploitive or that it would actually demean women, then I'm not interested, then I pass. I can't be responsible for the whole of Hollywood, but I can certainly be responsible for my own career. (END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Kidman was testifying to support the International Violence Against Women Act which could influence U.S. foreign policy in relations with any country where women's rights are not respected.
ROBERTS: With everybody it seems getting either a cold these days, getting the flu, maybe even coming down with swine flu, we're wondering just how many germs are out there in America and how infectious are people?
Well, Elizabeth Cohen continues her germ series today. She travels with a sneezer to find out just how at risk you might be when that person sits down next to you at a restaurant or on the bus or on the subway or on an airplane and starts sniffling and sneezing and coughing. Will they actually make you sick? We'll find out. 38 minutes after the hour.
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CHETRY: Welcome back. Beautiful shot of New York this morning. The trees are starting to turn. It's cloudy. Mostly cloudy actually. Fifty-nine degrees. But a little later, we're going to expect the sunshine to roll in. 76 degrees. It's 41 minutes past the hour right now. And our Rob Marciano is keeping track of everything. We officially have no complaints about New York today. Weatherwise.
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Excellent. Everybody is happy on this Thursday morning. Nice to hear that. Things, obviously, will change. Because any time you see this kind of thing in the middle part of the country. You know, most stuff heads west to east. Eventually it's going to get to the East Coast.
Another day of high pressure in control across the East Coast. And another day of storms across the south. We have flooding rains across parts of Texas yesterday. As a matter of fact, here's what it looked like yesterday in the Ft. Worth area. So heavy rains coming in a short amount of time. And you just get a little bit of clogging on the drains and you get flash flooding in a hurry. So anywhere from two to four inches of rain fell in the Dallas-Ft. Worth metropolitan area. And getting around town was certainly an issue.
We still have rains across parts of Dallas and now this tornado watch box has just been posted for southeast Texas and southwest Louisiana until 1:00 local time. No warnings out on that. But we'll certainly watch as the day progresses. Rain spreading to the north. Chicago will probably get a little bit. Just a little part of western Nebraska seeing some snow out of the system. You know, we saw snow from that yesterday in Denver.
Look at this. Folks in Hawaii, a little hurricane sneaking up on you. Hurricane Nikki, winds of 120 miles an hour. Still about 500 miles west of Honolulu. So it's not a threat. But it's a major storm. So there are tropical storm warnings are posted for all the islands. And certainly the western islands and the western facing shores of those islands are seeing some heavy surf.
Here's the forecast track for this hurricane. Category 3 status. It will not weaken today. Probably won't weaken tonight. But I think it's going to weaken as we go through tomorrow and then tomorrow night heading into slightly cooler waters eventually getting a category 1 storm. So this one kind of snuck up on us.
Nonetheless, that's what's going on in Hawaii. As far as what you are seeing across the rest of the country for daytime highs today, 70s. I think you'll take that, New York. Yes. 73 in New York. 74 in Atlanta. Nobody complaining east of the Mississippi.
John and Kiran, back up to you.
ROBERTS: Not today anyways. But maybe Friday and Saturday they'll be complaining when it's raining again.
CHETRY: Yes. But for today, we'll zip it. Thanks, Rob.
MARCIANO: I like it. All right, guys.
CHETRY: Well, we told you at the top of the program how fast the swine flu virus is crossing America. Coast to coast. More and more of you are telling us that you are worried about getting the swine flu. Almost half of you are not sure if the H1N1 vaccine is even safe, though.
Senators quizzed the president's top health officials about all of those concerns on Capitol Hill. And our Brianna Keilar breaks it down for us this morning.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: John and Kiran, with more cases of the swine flu popping up, senators brought in top administration officials to ask them what they are doing to fight the outbreak and when Americans can expect to get their vaccinations.
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KEILAR (voice-over): Dressed for the cold and huddled together in the predawn darkness in Rockville, Maryland, around the country, people like these are lining up to get the swine flu vaccine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got here around 1:00 in the morning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want him to get it this morning. Look at the line. It's bad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have a limited amount of injectable vaccine.
KEILAR: Many are disappointed when they can't get a shot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With a year advance that they had on this disease, I am amazed at the lack of response by the medical community in the United States. KEILAR: The lines are fueled by the newly available H1N1 flu vaccine and warnings from government officials trying to avert a wider outbreak. The secretaries of Homeland Security, Health and Human Services and Education testified before a Senate panel Wednesday.
KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: There are actually 86 H1N1 lab-confirmed pediatric deaths since we began reporting this in April, and the number is equivalent to the entire flu season of past years. So we are already at that level.
KEILAR: Despite the scary statistics, many Americans have no plans to get the shot, concerned about the safety of the vaccine. In a new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll, 43 percent of respondents said they're afraid the vaccine could lead to death or serious health problems.
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: They want to know if it's safe to give to their children, what kind of testing was done, and whether it contains any dangerous additives.
KEILAR: But just steps from where Congressional staffers in high-risk categories were receiving their H1N1 vaccines, officials told Congress it is safe.
SEBELIUS: We have a vaccine. Go get vaccinated.
KEILAR (on camera): But that's easier said than done right now. Health officials were hoping to have 40 million doses of the vaccine available by the end of the month and so far, they're 10 to 12 million short. Secretary Sebelius said the vaccine should be widely available by the beginning of November, John and Kiran.
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ROBERTS: Brianna Keilar for us this morning. Brianna, thanks so much.
Well, there's a new controversy in Washington, DC. Students from the ages of kindergarten to 12th grade banned from a local park. Local moms complained - local moms of toddlers complained the kids were too rambunctious. Can you do that? And how do the kids get back into the park? We'll find out. Our Deb Feyerick is tracking that story.
Forty-six and a half minutes after the hour.
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ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. Has this happened to you? You're sitting on an airplane and the person next to you starts sneezing and coughing and hacking, and phlegm is spewing everywhere.
CHETRY: I hope not.
ROBERTS: Horrible scene. CHETRY: Well, what do you do then? Are you just doomed to basically catch the same virus that's made your seatmate sick? Our senior correspondent - medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen gets on a plane. She has the answer for us in our "Germ Nation" series.
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ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: We wanted to know, what kind of germs do you face while you're on an airplane.
We have this nice little airplane here, so come on and we'll - we'll get on there and talk about it. We're actually sitting pretty far apart. In a real airplane, we'd be shoulder to shoulder.
Let's go with the worst-case scenario. I have H1N1, I cough and cough and I don't cover it up well, what are the chances do you think that you'll get sick?
DR. JULIE GERBERDING, INFECTIOUS DISEASE EXPERT: Well, there's a pretty good chance. Flu is very transmissible.
COHEN: This is a graphic simulation of a cough. The guy in red there, he's the - he's the sick passenger, and he coughs.
GERBERDING: And there come those droplets. What's happening here is that the ventilation system of the plane is distributing them and basically removing them, except for the people who are close.
COHEN: I mean, look at these little dots. They're just flying everywhere.
GERBERDING: It's a great illustration of why flu is so transmissible. So if you're in the strike zone, you're at risk. The good news is that if you're anywhere else in the aircraft you probably have very low risk.
COHEN: Do I need to worry about the guy sneezing ten rows behind me?
GERBERDING: You really don't. That is way outside of the zone where the droplets are going to hit you directly.
COHEN: You had an interesting experience. You were just on a flight from San Francisco to Atlanta, and tell me what happened?
GERBERDING: We were ready to taxi down the runway. The lady sitting next to me is speaking on her cell phone and says, I know I have swine flu. I feel miserable.
COHEN: So in retrospect, you wish you had alerted a flight attendant?
GERBERDING: I absolutely do and I ask myself why didn't I do that?
COHEN: Could you please offer this person a mask? I mean, that sounds so rude.
GERBERDING: I really do wish I had said so and (INAUDIBLE) and I think the person next to me has swine flu. Could you do something about it?
COHEN: And you can say that even if you're not Dr. Julie Gerberding.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN: Dr. Gerberding gave me another hint. If you happen to sit down on a place next to a Mr. Sneezy, reach up and turn the air vent towards the sick person. It will send the air towards them and away from you - not completely, but it will help -- John and Kiran.
ROBERTS: How about just having like one of those level-four containment suits at the ready and, you know, and the next time somebody coughs, you put the hood on no matter where you go.
CHETRY: Exactly.
COHEN: Sure. That would work too. That would.
CHETRY: You know, it funny, though, Elizabeth, because in other cultures, it's more acceptable, in other countries as well, to wear masks if you're sick, first of all, but also to wear them in public and we did one - what - where were they in? Was it Tokyo that this taxi cab doors just open? You don't have to actually put your hand on them?
ROBERTS: Yes. You don't have to (ph) touch it.
CHETRY: Pretty cool.
ROBERTS: You know, there are some taxis here in New York City that have those, too, those cool little minivans.
CHETRY: Oh, really?
ROBERTS: You don't know about those. But - but isn't it amazing, though, Elizabeth, that, you know, there you have the former head of the Centers for Disease Control sitting beside you and you're saying, "I think I have the swine flu." Imagine if she hadn't (ph) been the acting head. You know?
CHETRY: True.
COHEN: Well, you know, I think that she made a really good point with this, that she shouldn't have been embarrassed to go to the stewardess and say, hey, could you please give me a mask? The person next to me is sick. She was embarrassed, but in retrospect, she wished that she'd done it.
ROBERTS: All right. Elizabeth Cohen for us this morning. Elizabeth, thanks. CHETRY: So I had an invitation coming from the Catholic Church to maybe some Episcopalians who are not happy with their religion. Down the road, what will this mean, though? Can married priests be part of the Catholic religion?
It's 53 minutes after the hour.
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CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. You've probably heard the expression pay to play, but it's becoming a very familiar one to a group of young schoolgirls in a Washington D.C. suburb.
ROBERTS: The kids are learning a hard lesson about politics and economics, and all they really want to do is play in their favorite park again.
Our Deb Feyerick joins us now with an "AM Original" and what's the problem here? What's going on?
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: How can you deprive a child from playing? Well, public parks are supposed to be, well, public, right? Well one not-for-profit private school outside Washington DC is being forced to pay thousands of dollars.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FEYERICK (voice-over): These days, the girls from Brookewood School walk down the road for recess. It's not far, but they used to play here, right across the street from their classes in Kensington, Maryland.
Not anymore. They were banned from using this public park, and headmaster Joe McPherson says it's just wrong.
FEYERICK (on camera): So we can't even step on the park? We can't even step on the grounds here (ph).
JOSEPH MCPHERSON, HEADMASTER, BROOKEWOOD SCHOOL: No. That's why I'm still (ph) here in the sidewalk, because it's illegal for any adult without a child 5 or under to go in the park during the daytime.
FEYERICK (voice-over): The mayor and town council passed a resolution earlier this month making Reinhart Park off-limits from 9:00 to 4:00, not only for the not-for-profit all-girls school, but for all kids older than 5.
FEYERICK (on camera): Can you ban people from using a public park?
JOHN THOMPSON, COUNCILMAN, KENSINGTON, MARYLAND: Can we? Yes. It is our park. It is a facility owned and operated by the town of Kensington.
FEYERICK: The entire town of Kensington is a half square mile. Town Hall where the mayor and city council passed the resolution is across from the school, which is across from the public park.
FEYERICK (voice-over): The controversy began after a group of Kensington moms complained to the mayor, accusing the K through 12 girls of breaking swings, harming trees, littering and generally overwhelming toddlers.
THOMPSON: The moms and their small children felt they were being crowded out when the - when, you know, a large body of middle-aged school students showed up in the park.
FEYERICK: The girls disagree.
MEAGAN, BROOKEWOOD STUDENT: The mayor thinks that we sort of didn't - disuses or abuses it and scared the little kids, but I don't really think we did.
CLAIRE, BROOKEWOOD STUDENT: We picked up trash and there were like cigarettes and we don't smoke, so...
FEYERICK: There was also the issue of money. The town council wanted a fee, similar to one paid by another school in the area.
MCPHERSON: Just paying $4,000, it strikes me as somehow wrong in principle that a not-for-profit group has to pay money for using a public park.
FEYERICK: The town council says the school has ignored attempts to work out a compromise.
THOMPSON: It is not about the money, it is about coming to an understanding, which has yet to take place.
FEYERICK: The girls of Brookewood are upset that the controversy has cast them in a bad light. Still, they say, they miss their park, which now stands empty most of the time.
FEYERICK (on camera): OK, by show of hands, do you guys want to go back to the old park?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FEYERICK: Now, the moms who lodged the original complaint did not want to be interviewed by us. The school and its family (ph) say that they'd love to help maintain the park, maybe plant flowers. The town council is considering it and in a meeting on Monday, council members reduced the fee to $2,000, saying they were pleased that the school came to the table.
CHETRY: Any chance that they could maybe split some of the time, like a little part of the day's carved out for just the real little ones?
FEYERICK: They're thinking about that. Again, this is recess. We're talking about sort of a window of time. But, if you've got a little kid and a group of school girls comes running to that equipment during recess free time, it can be a little overwhelming to small kids.
CHETRY: All right. Deb - we know. We all get it. You can't win either way, can you?
FEYERICK: Absolutely.
CHETRY: Thanks.
FEYERICK: Of course.
