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Alleged Rape Victim Recants Story; President Obama Takes on Fox News
Aired October 23, 2009 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Coming at you right now, for a full hour: The pilots of this plane aren't even heard. What's happened to them? Is it another national emergency? Fighter jets poised for the worst.
PETER GOELZ, FORMER MANAGING DIRECTOR, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: They certainly were not doing their job.
SANCHEZ: Could it be they just fell asleep? What will the black box reveal? We're drilling down.
Is Hollywood promoting the president's agenda?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One simple decision.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's how great change begins.
SANCHEZ: Conservatives are miffed.
Six people convicted of raping and beating a defenseless woman, all are in prison. Well, now she says she made it up. Why are they still behind bars?
President Obama calls out Fox News, and there's shock and awe.
HELEN THOMAS, HEARST NEWSPAPERS COLUMNIST: He would tell reporters at news conferences, go stand on the -- in the corner and put a dunce cap on.
SANCHEZ: How does it compare to what he did, or what he did, or what he did?
Your national conversation, looking back, for Friday, October 23, 2009, starts right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is a conversation, it's not a speech, and, as always, it's your turn to get involved.
Let's do this together. When you hear the story that I'm about to tell you, I can't imagine that you're not going to be both astonished, as well as full of questions.
This is about a horrific crime committed against a young woman. She is kidnapped, she is tortured, she is beaten, she is raped, and that's not the half of it. Some of this is so bad that, to be honest with you, I can't describe this to you on television.
The young lady is Megan Williams as she looked exactly two years ago when she told police that seven people, men and women, did that to her. All six defendants pleaded guilty and are now in prison.
All right, now there's a troubling update -- update on this story, look, to say the very least, that's turning this entire story on its head.
CNN's Brooke Baldwin is our special correspondent. She's here. She's been following it for us. And she's joining us now with the very latest.
What is it, Brooke?
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Rick, you won't believe it. A lot of people aren't believing it.
We're talking about Megan Williams. She is now saying it didn't happen. Here's the deal. There's a two-year-old side to Megan Williams' case that's shocking, it's bizarre, but then there's the today side to Megan Williams' case that is equally shocking and bizarre.
Like you said, six people, men and women, locked up right now, convicted of these violent crimes, sex crimes, hate crimes against Megan Williams, some of the offenses so horrific we can't even talk about it, like you said, Rick.
But two day ago, Megan Williams drops this bombshell. She says she made it all up. She says it's a lie. She says the kidnapping, the torture, the rape never happened. She didn't tell reporters that, though. Her lawyer did. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BYRON POTTS, ATTORNEY FOR MEGAN WILLIAMS: The reason why she's coming forward now is because she wants to right the wrong that was perpetrated on these six individuals. She just wants to turn her life around. She's trying to -- she can't continue to live this lie. This is what she tells me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So, Megan Williams, she did appear Wednesday. She was with her lawyer. There she is walking in the hallway. You can see she's -- she's not even into really appearing on camera. She's got kind of a hoodie over her face. She's turning her back. She doesn't want to go on camera, but she's saying, Rick, she's -- she's lying. She's saying she told a lie.
SANCHEZ: Yes, it's amazing. I can't help but wonder what happens to the people who are in prison? If you're sitting in prison and you're going to be there for a long, long time, and what you're accused of is as horrible and as heinous as this, then the person who accused you of it comes out and says I -- they didn't do it, it never even happened, why are they still in prison?
BALDWIN: That's a good question. All of them are in prison.
And when you look back to the case two years ago, they all were interviewed by investigators and all differently told the same story. And, apparently, the DA in Logan County two years ago really went with their confessions and the marks on her body.
People -- you're looking at video from two years ago in Charleston, West Virginia. They're chanting, basically, justice for Megan Williams. This was before all of the accused actually took plea agreements, and then off they went to prison.
So, the question, what about them now, if Megan Williams is telling the truth this time? We don't know.
SANCHEZ: All right. All right, Brooke, good report. And I'm glad you showed us that video there of these people. This was a big deal.
BALDWIN: It was like a cause celebre for her two years ago in West Virginia.
SANCHEZ: And now she's coming out and saying all that cause celebre, all those protests, all these accusations, the heinous things that apparently happened, I'm coming out and telling you through my lawyer that it didn't happen.
BALDWIN: Right.
SANCHEZ: A lot of questions. Thanks, Brooke.
So, because a lot of this is still unclear, let's do this. I want to bring in a criminal defense attorney who's looked at this case for us.
Sylvia Pinera-Vazquez is joining us now from Miami.
Sylvia, always good to see you.
SYLVIA PINERA-VAZQUEZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi, Rick. How are you?
SANCHEZ: All right. I'm a little confused about this. If I'm in prison, right, and somebody accuses me of doing something this horrible -- we're not talking about a traffic ticket here. We're talking about something that's as bad as -- I can't even say some of these things they did, they were so bad -- how is it possible that these people are still in prison? This isn't adding up for me? Can you make it make sense?
PINERA-VAZQUEZ: It's a bizarre case.
Basically, what happens now is that she's recanted her story, but now the burden shifts to the defense attorneys to do something. They have got to file a motion for new trial based on newly discovered evidence, in this case the recantation, or whatever other motion they deem appropriate in order to get their clients before a judge.
SANCHEZ: Well, how does a prosecutor -- you've been a prosecutor. How does a prosecutor go and say now, I know that the victim in this case is saying that this is all B.S., but it doesn't matter, because we still believe that it happened, and we believe that we have enough evidence to hold them in prison?
What is the evidence that they're talking about? Convince me, the way this prosecutor would have to convince a judge.
PINERA-VAZQUEZ: Oh, the evidence as stated by the prosecutor at the time was, since the beginning, they thought that Ms. Williams had embellished her story, that she had exaggerated. So, the prosecutor specifically set aside her version of events and focused on, number one, the physical evidence and, number two, the confession of the seven defendants.
All of them confessed and pointed the fingers at each other. Now, based on that alone, the defendants took a plea. And that's the time they're doing now. Now, you have to wonder, Rick, why did it take Ms. Williams two years to come forward to say that everything she had said was a lie?
Now, the crime she supposedly made up weren't, like you said, a traffic ticket. It was the eating of rat and dog feces, drinking from a toilet.
SANCHEZ: Oh, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
PINERA-VAZQUEZ: It was kidnapping. It was sexual assault. It was horrific crimes. Why did it take her two years?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: OK. Stay with me. Why would someone confess to something they didn't do?
PINERA-VAZQUEZ: Manipulation. I understand that she may have some mental issues. As a judge, the first thing you would probably...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: No. I'm talking -- no, no, no, you misunderstood me. I'm talking about the suspects. PINERA-VAZQUEZ: Oh.
SANCHEZ: One of the reasons that the prosecution, the government in case, the state in this case is saying we're going to keep them in prison is because they, apparently, or according to the state, they confessed.
PINERA-VAZQUEZ: Right.
SANCHEZ: How could they have confessed to something that now the victim is saying they didn't do? I could not be more confused by this.
PINERA-VAZQUEZ: Exactly.
And the confession, like I said, wasn't a traffic ticket. And it wasn't one person confessing. It was all seven confessing to different acts that they committed, and along with the physical evidence, Rick. We can't forget the physical evidence, from what I understand, was overwhelming in this case, because any time you get a victim in any sort of case, as a prosecutor, the first thing you seek to do is to corroborate what the victim tells you.
And, in this case, there was more than ample evidence to corroborate what the victim said along with the confessions, which is why they ended up with pleas. She wasn't happy at the time. She wasn't happy with those pleas two years ago.
But now she's coming back and saying that they're all innocent?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You worked as a federal prosecutor. You have worked on both sides. So, let's leave this with what I believe to be, as an expert, your synopsis, your take on this. It sounds to me -- I don't want to put words in your mouth Sylvia, but it sounds to me that you're telling CNN's viewers that you believe that just because she recanted the story doesn't mean it did not happen.
Am I reading you right?
PINERA-VAZQUEZ: You're reading me absolutely right.
And you have to question, as a judge. If I were the judge, I would have some serious questions for this young lady. And I would you've to wonder why, number one, it took her two years to come forward. Who is manipulating her? Is she going out seeking some sort of book deal? I mean, what's going on?
SANCHEZ: OK.
PINERA-VAZQUEZ: These are serious questions, because there was an enormous amount of physical evidence and there was confessions by seven defendants.
SANCHEZ: All is not always as it appears. And I'm glad we had you, Sylvia, to take us through this. My thanks, as usual.
PINERA-VAZQUEZ: Thank you. Thank you, Rick.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One simple decision.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's how great change begins.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Is Hollywood carrying the president's water? Is the left so enamored by this guy, this president of the United States, that they're willing to do his bidding for him? We have prepared a report on this, and I want you to see it.
And then guess what? Roman Polanski, child rapist, may soon be on his way back to the United States to face justice after, count them, 31 years. That update is coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez coming to you today from New York City, because I'm going to be filling in tonight for Campbell Brown and doing the 8:00 p.m. version as well. Christiane Amanpour is going to be joining me tonight at 8:00, by the way, to talk Afghanistan.
All right, now let's talk about this. Can you imagine Roman Polanski finally being brought back to the United States? I mean, think about this for a moment. Can you imagine the scene when -- I guess if -- that actually happens?
And guess what? As of today, it's a little step closer to actually happening -- 31 years ago, he pleaded guilty to having sex with a 13-year-old girl, a 13-year-old girl in Los Angeles. But he never did the time. Instead, he skipped town.
The facts of the original case are keeping the story in the headlines, which is a problem for Mr. Polanski, like the fact that he got the little girl drunk, and the fact that he got the little girl high on quaaludes.
Polanski was busted last month when he went to Switzerland for a film festival. Little did he know that he was about to be busted. He's desperately now trying to fight this extradition, but you know what? It's not looking good, say many of the experts who have been watching this case.
And as of today, the United States has officially filed papers to have Polanski brought back to justice -- or brought back to face justice. We will keep you posted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: There was a blood drive today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Is the president's call for volunteerism using some of Hollywood's biggest names really a hidden political agenda in Hollywood? That's what some conservatives are saying, and we have got a special report where we go through this for you.
Also, speaking of the president, the official family portrait of the nation's first black president is on its way to the history books. We have got it. And we're going to show it to you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back to the CNN studios in New York City. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Have you noticed something about some of the shows that you have been watching on TV this week, you know, the morning chat shows, some of the prime-time dramas, even my daughter Savannah's (ph) favorite, "Hannah Montana"? There's a recurring theme that may be coming from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
And CNN's Brooke Anderson says this one is probably no coincidence.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: There was a blood drive today.
BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN CULTURE AND ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On "Grey's Anatomy," they're donating blood. Over on "Criminal Minds," they're donating time.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: I volunteer with a new mom counseling group.
ANDERSON: Everywhere you turn in prime time this week, somebody's doing good.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: The dogs scheduled to be put down today have red tags on them.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: I will adopt all of them.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: I have even volunteered to be a volunteer for the volunteer program.
ANDERSON: This spate of selflessness is no coincidence. Volunteerism has been woven into the storylines of more than a dozen prime-time shows as part of an ambitious campaign by Hollywood's leading charity, the Entertainment Industry Foundation. LISA PAULSEN, CEO, ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY FOUNDATION: We're hoping to really encourage millions of Americans to get involved in volunteerism and service...
The multiyear initiative includes PSAs.
GWYNETH PALTROW, ACTRESS: Please join us in volunteering.
ANDERSON: ... and a dedicated Web site, iParticipate.org, where users can search for volunteer opportunities in their communities.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who is doing the (INAUDIBLE)
ANDERSON: Celebrities showed the way in Los Angeles, pitching in at a food bank.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you all for volunteering.
ANDERSON: But where some see this as Hollywood uniting for the common good, others detect political motives. Bloggers on the conservative Web site Big Hollywood attacked the prime time volunteerism push as an abuse of the public airwaves.
Big Hollywood contributor Patrick Courrielche, under the headline "Obama Controls Your Television Set," accused the administration of orchestrating the iParticipate campaign to further its political goals.
PATRICK COURRIELCHE, BIG HOLLYWOOD REPORTER: It worries me a little bit when the government is directing people in the media industry or in the arts to produce art that advocate policy.
ANDERSON: As evidence of the administration's hand in the Entertainment Industry Foundation effort, he pointed to a speech by first lady Michelle Obama announcing the campaign.
MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY: The idea is to emphasize for viewers across the country that service is part of who we are as Americans.
ANDERSON: Big Hollywood published a memo from the Entertainment Industry Foundation linking its efforts to the president's call for national service, a suggestion reinforced by this pitch in Sunday's episode of "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Obama has made to call to action for everybody in the nation to sort of step up and give back in their community.
ANDERSON: The Entertainment Industry Foundation denies coordinating its efforts with the Obama administration.
PAULSEN: Trying to identify ways that you can make a difference and help folks is never political. It's about doing the right thing.
ANDERSON: Conservative bloggers point out that the iParticipate Web site steers would-be volunteers toward liberal organizations, like Planned Parenthood.
(on camera): If you type in health care in the Los Angeles area on iParticipate's home page, it leads you to this, a couple of Planned Parenthood's phone bank opportunities, among other things.
(voice-over): But type in the word abortion, and volunteer opportunities pop up with a variety of anti-abortion groups. Type in military and an opportunity comes up in Georgia to make care packages for soldiers.
The iParticipate Web site contains more than 250,000 volunteer possibilities, many without any apparent political dimension. The Entertainment Industry Foundation says the point is not where you volunteer, only that you do.
PAULSEN: You know, come together, get involved in volunteerism, give back, you make a difference in your community, whatever that means to you.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: So many of us wonder, why are we living? Well, that's why we're living, to help others.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: You know, what is interesting about this is, I think many of you who have probably been around for a while recall that this is not the first time that we have seen political manifestations seen or exhibited in Hollywood.
I mean, in the past, there have been wars that have been fought where -- going back to the turn of the century, where we actually had it. So, you know, it's interesting.
By the way, there's someone having an elaborate conversation in my ear right now.
It's interesting when you go back and you look at this that there are actually times in our history when -- I will give you an example -- "The Green Beret" was a movie in 1968. It starred John Wayne. It was toward the end of the Vietnam War, all things considered, or at least at a time during the Vietnam War when many Americans were already turning against the Vietnam War.
Was that propaganda? Was that Hollywood getting in cahoots with the maybe the administration to try and convince the Americans of some ideology? Who knows? The fact of the matter is, there are examples throughout our history where this kind of thing has happened.
Nonetheless, there are some in the media who are seeing it as something that should be criticized, something that is brand-new. For example, watch this clip from Glenn Beck.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GLENN BECK, HOST, "GLENN BECK": Well, this is fantastic. It's almost like we're living in Mao's China right know. But Mitch Metcalf, an EIF board member and NBC executive -- it can't be -- come on, Anita, call me out. Look, Chairman Mao is ready to take your phone call. Go ahead. Call me on that one. This can't be true, right?
An NBC executive told the "L.A. Times," we came up with this idea over a year ago and -- quote -- "We were lucky that the Obama administration happened to think that this was a worthy cause." I can't even read this with a straight face.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Brooke Anderson is good enough to join us now.
So, I mean, really, Brooke, when -- I'm old enough to remember when there have been other examples of Hollywood getting in cahoots with past administrations, being they, you know, the Kennedy administration or the Nixon administration or the LBJ administration, to pump out messages.
All things considered, this is not really all that new, is it?
ANDERSON: No, you make a really great point, Rick.
But there are some people who are really concerned about this particular effort, and call it scandalous and propaganda orchestrated by the White House.
Another blogger on that Web site I mentioned in the piece, Big Hollywood, said that it fits into a broader White House agenda to in part politicize the NEA. Well, the White House initiated a statement to CNN, saying in part -- listen to this -- "The iParticipate program is being run independently of the administration and isn't asking Americans to participate in any one activity."
The Entertainment Industry Foundation for its part is very adamant that this is completely nonpartisan and said that it was initially inspired by then candidates Obama and McCain really encouraging volunteerism and community service at a summit last September.
SANCHEZ: So, if the issue is just volunteerism, it's kind of like giving a speech to kids in elementary schools and across the country telling them that they should work hard, try and get good grades, and stay in school. That's a pretty benign message, all things considered, isn't it?
ANDERSON: It certainly is. And the EIF reiterates that that's what it's about, for each and every American to get out and do something.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: What's the threshold then? Is there -- did you talk to people who are saying, it's OK as long as all they're saying is -- but at what point do we get past that slippery slope when now we're going to be taking orders from the commander in chief and we in Hollywood have to be the ones that deliver that order? Is that what they're looking for?
ANDERSON: Well, you heard it. Glenn Beck compared it to Mao's communist China, so some do feel it has already slid on that slippery slope and gotten past the threshold.
But I want to mention, Rick, that plenty of past American presidents have encouraged community service and volunteerism, Bush 41, Bush 43. President Obama was just in Texas with President H.W. Bush celebrating the 20th anniversary of his 1,000 Points of Light initiative.
SANCHEZ: Yes, of which, by the way, I was once a recipient after Hurricane Andrew in South Florida.
Oh, one other thing.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: I was as well.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, congratulations.
We probably shouldn't let this moment pass without mentioning John F. Kennedy and the Peace Corps, which may be the act of volunteerism, or American volunteerism, that started it all.
My thanks to you, Brooke.
ANDERSON: Thanks, Rick.
SANCHEZ: What could possibly cause a scene this immense in Puerto Rico? Look at this picture, the airline mystery that had fighter jets poised to deal with our worst fears. The passengers didn't even know it, as a matter of fact. We're going to have the latest on this one. It's a jumbo jet that they were on that suddenly disappeared from communication with ground controllers.
This may very well be -- if you haven't heard about this or followed through, we have got brand-new information. This may very well be the story of the day.
Stay right where you are.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
The Obama White House vs. FOX News has been the talk show battle du jour this week. A president and his staff essentially shut out a news network because it has a "perspective" -- quote, unquote -- as White House Chief Rahm Emanuel said.
They refer to FOX News not as a news channel, but rather as part of the opposition. OK, fair enough. But now let me ask you this. Is this media throwdown by the White House unprecedented or even unique?
With a little urging from one of the longest-running correspondents in Washington, Helen Thomas, we concluded that the answer to that question is no. Richard M. Nixon kept an enemies list of journalists that he essentially hated. Franklin Roosevelt made one "New York Times" reporter wear a dunce cap at press briefings. He hated the guy so much, he decided to humiliate him in front of his peers.
Heck, listen to this one. Abraham Lincoln issued executive orders to have certain reporters and editors arrested and held in military prisons, reporters and editors arrested and held in military prisons, because he deemed their work irresponsible.
The point is, history does indeed repeat itself. But only for those who care enough to know a little bit about our own history.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HELEN THOMAS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS CORPS: My question is -- why did you really want to go to war?
GEORGE BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I didn't want war. To assume I wanted war is just -- is just flat wrong, Helen, in all due respect. Hold on for a second, please. Excuse me, excuse me. No president wants war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yes, this gets testy. Some of the moments you may not have seen yesterday from our interview with, well, Helen Thomas, the woman who's been doing it as long as anybody else at the white house and that's pressing the president. Lessons on presidential behavior from none other than her.
Also why did a jumbo jet disappear from communications systems? It's a big question all over the country today, a bizarre explanation, unbelievable story and one that obviously affects everyone who flies. I'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We just got news on a truly bizarre story, it's a scary story too. If you or your loved ones ever fly commercial, which most of us do, the national transportation safety board has just unveiled two crucial pieces of evidence that could explain what the heck two northwest pilots were doing when they overshot their schedule of destination by -- you're ready for this? 150 miles. They flew 150 miles past the airport in Minneapolis as ground controllers frantically tried to reach them. They were incommunicado for more than an hour on an airbus A320 with 144 passengers. And what is their reasoning? What is their excuse? They say they were so engrossed in conversation they just missed their mark. Talking about airline policies, or arguing, they say. Well, that's what they say.
Let me tell you something else now. There are some people out there who are experts in this field who are simply not buying that explanation/excuse. All right. Here's what you need to know. This is brand new video shot in Washington, it's the airplane's cockpit voice recorder and it's flight data recorder, now that should tell the story right there, it should, but there's a catch. According to the associated press, they're reporting that the cockpit recorder is an older model, which means that only the last 30 seconds of the conversation may be recorded. So it might be useless in terms of finding out what they were really talking about.
On the other hand, the flight data recorder could tell us whether the crew was giving the plane any commands at all at the time, that's important. Because some are suggesting that if they weren't giving any commands to the plane for more than an hour, they may have been sleeping, sleeping on a jumbo jet while in control. All right. Let me show you what happened. I'll take you through this yesterday.
The story begins in San Diego. And there it leaves from San Diego until finally, that's 5:01, by the way, the plane starts heading. In Colorado they finally do make contact. That's the last contact that they actually make. And that's at 6:56. Right? And then the plane continues on. They overshoot Minneapolis. And continue on into Wisconsin. And you'll notice that's 8:48 when that happened. That's when they were scheduled to arrive, but they continued. And you can see they do a loop deloop there, and come all the way back, contact is re-established at 9:14, it looks like -- where in the world are you guys.
They're trying to make sure that they're not taken by hijackers at this point, so they ask them to do all kinds of strange maneuvers to prove that they really were the pilots of the plane until it finally lands at 10:02 p.m. Eastern.
All right now. A lot of folks are saying that the idea that they were distracted by a heading conversation just doesn't add up. One that was a hell of a long conversation, more than an hour? Two, would they have not noticed the lights of Minneapolis? Were they not even looking out the window? I mean, and how about this, for the most part, we're told by experts that this stuff often times is second major to pilots, it's like you or me driving home from work, yes, we may missed a couple of blocks, but we're not going to end up in the next city. Wouldn't you know if you drove passed your home by half an hour for example? This are just questions.
Joining me now from Washington, Former Airline Pilot Lynn Spencer. Lynn, thanks so much for being with us.
LYNN SPENCER, FORMER AIRLINE PILOT: Nice to be here Rick.
SANCHEZ: Are these Lynn legitimate questions that people should be asking? Because I know that there's some pilots who have already gone on the record on other networks are heard them and they have said that they're 99% convinced that these folks were asleep.
SPENCER: They are excellent questions that need to be answered because whether they were asleep or whether they were engaged in a deep conversation that had their attention for that length of time, it's a safety concern. And one correction Rick, even if it is an older cockpit voice recorder, it would be 30 minutes, not 30 seconds of information. Whether that's going to be enough to get the information that we need, we'll find out.
SANCHEZ: 30 minutes, not 30 seconds. Well, thank you for that.
SPENCER: 30 minutes.
SANCHEZ: No, we appreciate that. Either way the bottom line, here's what I want to know. I'm wondering, did we get a shot of the cockpit, what it looks like on this plane. Put that up real quick. We're looking at a cockpit right there. Lynn, take us through this if you would. That the pilot -- let's suppose they were engaged in an hour-long bicker, conversation, argument, call it what you may, why wouldn't they be able to hear what someone else may be telling them? How do they hear it? Use that picture that we have up on the cockpit to take us through this.
SPENCER: Well, you know, from the com cockpit perspective, its dark, chances are the lights in the cockpit are dimmed, they're not going to be really looking at anything outside of the cockpit, and its darkness. It would be hard to miss the lights in Minneapolis and they would be very hard to not see them come and go. In terms of, their surroundings, maybe somebody is trying to call them, they're going to hear that, if there's messages coming into the cockpit via text message.
SANCHEZ: Were they going to be wearing headphones?
SPENCER: Yes, they're going to be wearing headsets.
SANCHEZ: So, and in those headsets -- how often in the course of an hour flying across Unites States, would you be hearing instructions from one airport or another? I mean, they shot over Minneapolis, would not the tower have reached out to them and said, hey, XLM ba ba ba (ph). What are you doing, where are you, talk to me?
SPENCER: Well, they were not armed the Minneapolis frequency, they had not switched off of the Denver frequency. So, and that was one of the problems, they were finally reached on the Denver frequency, and a frequency like that can be quiet for quite a long time.
SANCHEZ: For an hour? For an hour?
SPENCER: No, usually by the time -- if you haven't heard anything in an hour, usually you're calling up and wondering if you missed a handoff.
SANCHEZ: So, is the explanation that they possibly had nodded off, both of them at the same time plausible?
SPENCER: Is it plausible that they could have nodded off? Yes, I think that is plausible. SANCHEZ: Does it say something about the airline industry and that our pilots are often too fatigued and that maybe they need to do something to relieve the stress or maybe create a situation where one of them is allowed to stay awake while the other one takes a cat nap, which I understand right now is prohibited.
SPENCER: Well, the way it works in a cockpit, you have one pilot that's the flying pilot that is the one manipulating the controls, monitoring the systems and the non-flying pilot is always working the radios and listening for the call signs of the aircraft. So, really that's a work that you can have one sleeping and taking a cat nap, and the crew rest requirements, you should be getting enough sleep and I'm sure the investigators will be looking at the schedules of these pilots, like let's say the first day of a multi day schedule. Had they been flying for several days? Up early, long day? So, all can be very relevant.
SANCHEZ: I understand for right now that they're grounded while this thing continues to be investigated. We'll stay on top of it, as well. Lynn, my thanks to you for coming in and sharing your expertise with us.
SPENCER: Thank you Rick
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SOUPY SALES: I never would have thought of hitting someone else in the face with a pie, I figured I would do it because I'm, you know, nuts.
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SANCHEZ: We're going to be remembering the pie throwing guy? Why? Well, he may have a surprise for you tonight when I do the show at 8:00. After all, I've been teased (ph) right, I've gone under water and sank into a canal out of boat, and I have been thrown out of sea. Will I do something like this, what do you think? "Fotos" is next.
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JILLIAN MICHAELS, FITNESS EXPERT: You're going to the gym everyday after work. Are you finding that manageable? If that's not manageable, then it becomes -- OK, if you can't get the fitness in, and then you push the plate away and you eat less calories. You make the quality of your foods count as much as possible. You steal sleep on the plane if that's the only place that you can steal it. And (INAUDIBLE).
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Getting the -- getting the compliment from you today...
MICHAELS: You, I mean, like, I just was like -- wow, he looks great. Not that I didn't think you looked great before. Let me just clarify, you were hot before and you're hot now, but you just -- yes, you look like you're just lean and mean.
GUPTA: I feel great. And I really appreciate it.
MICHAELS: Thank you.
GUPTA: Thanks so much for your help.
Obviously, the key to all of this is to maintain this for the rest of my life and hopefully the rest of yours as well. So, we got a lot of great tips at CNNHealth.com, also on Twitter at SanjayGuptaCNN.
Back to you.
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SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I am in New York City today. A lot of you are twittering me and asking me what I'm doing in New York City. I'm going to be doing the 8:00 show tonight as well for Campbell Brown who's taking some well-deserved rest.
It's just much a part of Americana as Norman Rockwell. Family portraits topping today's "Fotos."
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SANCHEZ: And they're dancing in the aisles all over America when a not-so-good-looking Cuban guy seen there in the middle marries a beautiful Georgia peach, they get to make a family portrait that makes the guy -- that would be me -- look like he done good, right? Cute kids.
But when a Hawaiian born president whose dad was Kenyan marries a gal from the South Side of Chicago, that makes history. This is the official family portrait that will be seen for centuries in the history books. It is the first of its type. It was shot in the Green Room by a photographer who, in many ways, is just as famous as her celebrity subjects, Annie Leibovitz.
I can hear it now. "Malia, stop pinching Sasha." "Sasha, cut that out and get the gum out of your mouth." That would be my kids.
Look at this massive cloud of smoke that's forced hundreds of people to get out of the way. Locals say that this is the biggest fire ever in Puerto Rico. Eleven fuel storage tanks blew up overnight. Nobody was seriously hurt. The 29 more tanks are dangerously closed to blowing as well.
Taking the Rat Pack from pie-eyed to pie face. If you were a kid in the 1950s and 1960s, you watched the whacky and propositional "Soupy Sales Show." That's Soupy taking a pie in the face from Frank Sinatra, and then giving it back to the chairman of the board. More than 20,000 cream pies and a lifetime of cheap laughs later, Soupy Sales has left us. Here's pie in your eye, buddy. He died last night at age 83.
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SANCHEZ: I'm getting a ton of comments from many of you about those pilots who overshot the runway by 150 miles. Carlos Mencia, this is a guy who never makes mistakes. So, he joins us to take us through this.
The Carlos Mencia sophisticated animation and recreation of what those pilots did when we come back. Stay with us.
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SANCHEZ: Carlos Mencia figures things out from a humorous standpoint. And he's good enough to join us now where he's been live in Las Vegas.
You've got an act tonight? You've got a lot of acts, I know.
CARLOS MENCIA, "MIND OF MENCIA": I'm always working. But, you know, Vegas is -- Vegas is evil. I don't know if you could tell but -- woooh! Woooh!
SANCHEZ: You got the horns sticking out of there.
MENCIA: Unlike those pilots, I haven't been sleeping.
SANCHEZ: Hey, what is the deal with these pilots? When you look at the information, you can't -- how could they -- I missed my house because I've been daydreaming or something, I missed turns, we all have. But, man, more than an hour and 150 miles -- what's the deal with that?
MENCIA: But here's a question -- yes, here's a question nobody's asked though: are they lovers? And I really mean that. Because if they are lovers and they contend that they were arguing, I believe that.
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MENCIA: If -- no, I really do. If they were friends and they are having a heated discussion, that's a lie.
But if they were lovers, you know that in the middle of an argument, you know, they're like, let me tell you what you don't do and what you don't do. Hey, we're flying over. I don't care where we're flying! Let me tell you what -- I can't believe that you don't throw off the track and I love you (ph).
If that was the argument, I believe that they were not asleep.
SANCHEZ: You mean like romantically hitched men. You're talking about two pilots from Northwest Airlines, carrying on up there, doing the mile high thing?
MENCIA: Well, maybe they were doing that, too. I don't know. I was thinking that they were fighting about some domestic issues, but, you know, if they were loving each other, mile high, I guess, that would work, too.
SANCHEZ: Only you would be crazy enough to say something like that. I love it.
By the way, I want to ask you about this feud going on between the president of the United States and Fox News. I know that you've been giving it a lot of thought. Keep them for a moment because we're going to sneak a break in.
We're going to back. I'm going to ask you about that. I'm going to ask about "Latino in America." I'm going to ask you of Hollywood -- Hollywood is basically doing the president's work for him as some are charging that y'all are, all right?
I'm going to hold your feet to the fire here, buddy.
Stay right here. Carlos Mencia when we come back.
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SANCHEZ: Carlos Mencia joining us once again, talking about many of the things that went on this week.
At CNN, we devoted a lot of our programming this week to "Latino in America." Really, an opportunity to, you know, hold a mirror up to people in the United States who are of Hispanic heritage. What did you think? What are your thoughts on that?
MENCIA: You know what? It's such a difficult thing to do because you have -- Latino sounds like one thing. But in America, you have Puerto Rican, you have Dominican, you have Cuban, you have Mexican, you have Chicano, you have people of Spanish descent that live in California before even Mexico showed up and they call themselves Spanish.
SANCHEZ: But isn't -- isn't that the point? That really, we're just like everybody else, we're a bunch of people who are living in this country, love this country, and are assimilating just like everybody else who's come to this country?
MENCIA: That -- but that is the bottom line. The difference is that, unlike you and I -- well, unlike other experiences, so the Italians came to this country, the Ellis Island thing happened and now, they call themselves Italians, but they all kind of have that similar experience and they all moved on.
The influx of our people, it keeps coming and coming so it's very difficult because a bunch of us...
SANCHEZ: Right.
MENCIA: ... kind of like graduated, but then there's a group of others that are, like, que paso? Yes, yes. And so, we're kind of stuck in between. Who am I, me or my grandfather, or my cousin who just got here who barely speaks English at all. We're all of those. And so, the stories are so varied and wide that it's hard to pinpoint.
SANCHEZ: And in many ways, the same as all other stories that we heard about other Americans, the story of the guy who struggles, the story of the guy who's made it, the story of a guy who's still struggling but is on the verge of making it -- the against all odds stories. But those aren't Hispanic stories; they're also all-American stories.
MENCIA: But all-American stories start off exactly the same way. Somebody in another country is saying, "This is not good enough for me. I want more. I want better. I want my family to" -- the only difference is the accents. A Mexican guy is a Mexican going, man, I want better for my family. And there was a guy in England a long time ago saying, "I want something better for my family."
I mean, it's the same thing, you know what I mean? Everyone wants that.
SANCHEZ: Well, but there's a bite to this story and the bite to the Hispanic story in the United States is the story of immigration right now that's created a lot of tension and a lot of finger- pointing. How should that be addressed?
MENCIA: Here's the problem. The problem is: as Americans, it's very difficult for us to say, "Hey, by the way, where's your papers?" Because, as I recall, and I don't mean this facetiously, but I don't think the guys on the Mayflower had a visa.
SANCHEZ: Uh-huh.
MENCIA: This country was built on illegal immigration. I mean, when, you know, those -- the pilgrims landed, it's not like the Indians were going to kill them and they went, "Oh, no, way, we've got a visa." That's not what happened. I mean, we took this land from people and now somebody is coming in and invading us. What are we going to do about it?
SANCHEZ: Yes. So, when you hear people say, "Well, my ancestors came here legally, how about the folks who are coming over now?" And you say, "Well, show me how they came legally." It might be hard to prove, huh?
MENCIA: Nobody came here legally -- unless you're an Indian and you own a casino. You were here...
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MENCIA: I'm serious.
SANCHEZ: Carlos Mencia, we got to go. Wolf Blitzer is standing by. (SPEAKING SPANISH)
MENCIA: Love you, baby.
SANCHEZ: Take care, likewise.
Here's Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM." Wolf?
